Verizon iPhone Also Haunted By the Death Grip

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Verizon iPhone Also Haunted By the Death Grip

Posted by samzenpus on Wednesday February 9, 2011 @09:52AM from the here-we-go-again dept.

adeelarshad82 writes "Turns out that the Verizon iPhone 4 is also plagued with the same problem as the AT&T version, the 'Death Grip.' This isn't completely surprising since Apple has made no significant changes in the antenna design to warrant a permanent fix. As a result, the 'Death grip' causes a drop in 3G data performance as well as the Wi-Fi performance. What's strange is that the Death Grip gives inconsistent results which is why analysts don't view this as a big problem for Apple, chalking up the news as 'bloggers looking for something to write about.' Analysts also argue that Apple sold millions of AT&T iPhone 4's last year and despite the media-furor, consumers did not line up at Apple Stores demanding refunds."

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This is certainly not news by AndyAndyAndyAndy · 2011-02-09 09:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

"This isn't completely surprising since Apple has made no significant changes in the antenna design to warrant a permanent fix."
You know, there's a saying about doing the same thing over and expecting a different result...

--
It's always confirmation bias!
1. Re:This is certainly not news by peragrin · 2011-02-09 09:57 · Score: 2
  
  The only ones who were expecting different results were the bloggers who just happen to be people you can type really really loudly on the internwebs.
  For most people it didn't matter as they were covered or had decent coverage by AT&T. Personally I find it more telling that Verizon has plans to throttle heavy user before launch. While I don't expect a big difference in service it just might happen in a few markets.
  
  --
  i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
2. Re:This is certainly not news by jdpars · 2011-02-09 09:59 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  The CDMA iPhone actually does have an antenna change, which most of these "OMG VERIZON DEATH GRIP IPHONE" hacks are ignoring. There are two antennas (as is standard in CDMA), one on each side of the phone. To block most of these (and actually drop a call) you have to squeeze pretty hard (and possibly put the phone in a lead box). Getting the bars to decrease and getting a call to end are two entirely different things.
3. Re:This is certainly not news by node+3 · 2011-02-09 10:03 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  It's not news because it's how radios work. All phones have a "death grip" that drops the signal. The Verizon iPhone's grip is different from AT&T's, because the antennas are different.
4. Re:This is certainly not news by icebike · 2011-02-09 10:16 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Two antennas aren't going to solve the death grip, and CDMA antennas are not much different than 3G/GSM antennas. (And the iPhone always had two antenna halves, one on either side). Antenna length is almost always dictated by frequency in use, and the CDMA bands are pretty close to the 3G bands such that the same antennas can be used for both.
  Death grip was caused by human fingers bridging a gap between the 3G antenna and the WIFI antenna, and it could happen with a single finger touching the gap. No actual "Grip" required. The problem was solved with free bumpers, and users learning to avoid touching the gap. See this wired article: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/07/iphone-its-the-antenna-stupid/
  Apple pushed the myth of the death grip, to try to divert attention from their design flaw. It was never about the grip. It was only about bridging that gap. The free bumpers eliminated the problem.
  If the Verizon phones lack that gap, then any signal decrease caused by holding it is the same as you see on any other cell phone but don't confuse that the antennagate on the original iphone 4.
  
  --
  Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
5. Re:This is certainly not news by GooberToo · 2011-02-09 10:29 · Score: 2
  
  I thought all this was very well known up front. I read articles months ago about how they did not address the "death grip" issue at all. And according to what I read, the ONLY changes made were a CDMA specific antenna and corresponding chipset/drivers. Assuming that's true, how could anyone possibly be surprised that the same issue persists. After all, I've not read anything which supports Apple even attempted to remediate the issue.
  Its basically the same 'ol device with the same 'ol flaws.
6. Re:This is certainly not news by XxtraLarGe · 2011-02-09 13:32 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  For most people it didn't matter as they were covered or had decent coverage by AT&T.
  My workplace bought iPhone 4's for everyone who needed to be on call. When I first got mine, I tried to duplicate the issue and wasn't able to. Neither were my co-workers. Completely covering the phone antenna with my hands may have resulted in a one bar drop. We have O.K. AT&T coverage, but not great. This was much ado about nothing.
  
  --
  Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
7. Re:This is certainly not news by node+3 · 2011-02-09 13:37 · Score: 2
  
  >>>All phones have a "death grip" that drops the signal.
  Mine doesn't. That's because it has an actual antenna sticking out the top of it.
  Ok, Einstein, cover the antenna with your hand and report back.
  *Every* phone has a death grip because that's how radio works. The only way to eliminate it is to use different frequencies, higher powers, or larger antennas, such that the hand is insufficient to attenuate the signal.
8. Re:This is certainly not news by dudpixel · 2011-02-09 14:39 · Score: 2
  
  you do realize they updated the way the phone calculates the number of bars displayed. Many experts noted that its difficult to actually measure the phone's actual reception, since its impossible to know if the phone is lying to you or not.
  Try it whilst on a call in an area where reception isn't strong...if the call drops, then the issue remains.
  It applies to most phones, but the iphone 4 seems to be affected more easily, due to the antenna placement.
  What people found, was not that antennagate didn't exist, but that it doesn't have a huge impact if you already have good reception.
  
  --
  This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
9. Re:This is certainly not news by crossword.bob · 2011-02-09 16:21 · Score: 2
  
  Bridging the gap with your finger partially detunes the antenna; since your skin is not a perfect conductor, the charge carriers moving in the antenna effectively go through a "tunnelling" effect at the gap. This is probablistic in nature, meaning that a proportion of such carriers will continue to behave as though the antenna was at its normal length. What you would see by analysing the received frequencies is that the normal frequencies would be diminished but not obliterated when the gap is bridged. In low signal or with wet fingers this could be enough to kill the reception, but under normal circumstances it'll cope just fine. Thin tape will decrease the tunnelling effect, but not enough to make a qualitative difference. A bumper, or other insulator of similar thickness, reduces it to negligible levels.
  As a contrary type person, I have a habit of conducting calls on my (naked) iPhone 4 (in the UK) with my finger purposely bridging this gap, just because it amuses me to prove the doomsayers wrong on a daily basis.
10. Re:This is certainly not news by Aeternitas827 · 2011-02-09 17:07 · Score: 2
  
  Also, another point of interest is that the Verizon Iphone 4 has a dual mode GSM / CDMA radio, (which Apple never told us about), so it may well be it can become a world phone with just a IOS upgrade.
  Except for the lack of a SIM tray. The radio can support GSM all it wants, if there's nowhere to put a SIM the functionality is pretty well useless.
  
  --
  I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
11. Re:This is certainly not news by Stevecrox · 2011-02-09 19:48 · Score: 2
  
  No dropping from 4 bars to 3 is a huge performance drop on an iPhone 4. Tests show the iPhones 5 bar coverage is actually quite a weak signal. I'm not certain if 3 bars is enough to do anything more than send text messages. See here for Apples admission of the problem, Slashdot also had a story with the actual numbers.
  
  While there is no standard for displaying signal strength Apple massaged the figures by quite a bit. For an example a friend lives in a signal trouble area. In that area my Nokia reports 1 bar, you can make calls (quality is terrible) but text messages can sometimes pick up a delay. My friends iPhone 3GS reports 5 bars (still) although if he tries to make a call it's dropped quickly.
  
  Your demonstrating one of the most annoy traits of an iDevice owner (any fanboy really) rather than accept there's a flaw in your device and it isn't perfect everything else is to blame. I love Symbian I think Nokia would be foolish to drop it but I long ago accepted that a lot of people seem to be gifted at breaking Symbian devices. My biggest concern with phones right now is Elop will drop Meego. I've waited over a year to have a play with one before I lock myself into a 2 year contract (current plan is for a WP7 phone)
12. Re:This is certainly not news by oji-sama · 2011-02-09 21:58 · Score: 2
  
  My biggest concern with phones right now is Elop will drop Meego. I've waited over a year to have a play with one before I lock myself into a 2 year contract (current plan is for a WP7 phone)
  Oh yes. Mine too. I didn't get the N900 when it came out and now I've been waiting for a Meego-phone. I don't have anything against Symbian (nor iOS / Android), but I really want a truly open phone. (I'm basing this on N810 which I still own, although it doesn't really get much use anymore...)
  
  --
  It is what it is.
This was fixed by commodore64_love · 2011-02-09 09:54 · Score: 2

With a free rubber bumper that prevents the finger from touching the metal antenna.

--
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Funny by Dan+East · 2011-02-09 10:03 · Score: 5, Interesting

That's funny, because I was reading the exact opposite today:

"This isn't just a case where Apple took a CDMA chip and slapped it into the iPhone and called it Verizon. They actually redesigned the entire logic board, including the electromagnetic shields," iFixit's M.J. explains in a video for the repair site. "Apple's RF engineering team did a great job at restructuring the antenna, so hopefully we don't have the same death-grip problem that saddled its AT&T brother."
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Verizon-iPhone-4-May-Offer-Hints-at-iPhone-5-iFixit-815631/

--
Better known as 318230.
er... by Wrexs0ul · 2011-02-09 10:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

"despite the media-furor, consumers did not line up at Apple Stores demanding refunds"
Of course not. The tech savvy waited for their free case, and the knuckle-dragging hipsters bought a fashionable iGlove.
How exactly are Analysts still getting paid to analyze this?
-Matt

--
--- Need web hosting?
Apple users... by syousef · 2011-02-09 10:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

...are some of the most loyal on the planet. My experience is that a lot of them buy the device to be trendy and not for it's functionality. In the same way that fashion brands for shoes, perfumes or clothing may not be functionally the best but are still sold because people have bought into the brand. So like other fashion victims Apple users when confronted will often insist the device just works flawlessly and that they've never had a problem even if it doesn't. A lot of them don't use any advanced functionality, so they're oblivious to restrictions.
Apple's genius is in the marketing, like many of the big brands. It's easy to argue that McDonalds don't make the best burgers (and aren't as cheap as they once were!), Nike don't make the best shoes etc. yet they are still worth a mint and their product still sells in large numbers. It's not about phone engineering. It's about social engineering.
Watch this get modded as troll/flamebait. It's not.

--
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
1. Re:Apple users... by hercubus · 2011-02-09 10:46 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Apple users are some of the most loyal on the planet...
  ... Apple users ... insist the device just works flawlessly and that they've never had a problem.
  As a loyal Apple customer enjoying my flawless devices, this is what I got out of your post.
  Why would anyone mod you troll?
  
  --
  -- How I want a drink, alcoholic of course, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.
2. Re:Apple users... by MightyYar · 2011-02-09 11:12 · Score: 2
  
  With Apple's hardware generally a generation behind PCs or Android phones, it fills a specialty niche role, not a high end role.
  I'm not sure I follow... At any moment, there may be one or possibly two other high-end phones that equal the specs of the iPhone - and even then it is difficult to do a 1:1 comparison because different companies use different strategies to strike a compromise between performance and battery life. In any event, I've never heard anyone say with a straight face that the current-generation iPhone is not high-end. Not highest-end, sure, but usually it is among the top in terms of specs and capability.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
3. Re:Apple users... by juasko · 2011-02-09 11:41 · Score: 2
  
  Oh at slashdot there are many trolls that are moderators. If you give a balanced and neutral comment, you most probably will be down modded. If you actually troll there is a greater change that you get modded as funny instead of a troll. But that depends on which side you troll. If you happen to troll for the most popular opinion, your mods will race in points. While if you happen to be balanced and not taking part for any brand etc, you'll be modded troll.
  So if you want good scores pick your brand by popularity here and start trolling.
4. Re:Apple users... by jo_ham · 2011-02-09 11:58 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  When you hit the green button, the window doesn't follow the Microsoft Windows paradigm. Maximised windows have never been a part of OS X (or OS 9) - that's just people expecting them to do exactly what Windows does, but why should it?
  You can set two sizes with the green button, and it will toggle between them. "Apple" doesn't decide how big you want that window - the user does. It will remember the size you chose.
  OS X Lion is introducing full screen apps for the first time on OS X, where the entire UI changes (ie, Dock goes away, top menu bar goes away) so it the app that is full screen has full focus. I expect then the green button will do that (perhaps as a toggle - small, large, fullscreen).
  I will say that OS X is better than Windows, hands down. That doesn't mean it can't also have flaws (hello, Finder, hello dotfile littering on non-Mac filesystems, hello eternal loop of drive-spin-up-spin-down if you insert an unreadable DVD, among other things). It's still way better than Windows though (although from what I have seen of Win 7, it is looking good - where was that when Vista was being pried out of Ballmer's ass with a chair leg?).
5. Re:Apple users... by RogerWilco · 2011-02-09 12:36 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It's not just branding, Apple in general makes stuff of very high quality and with a lot of effort in usability design. I've used many computers, laptops, mp3 players and mobile phones over the years. I bought and iPod in 2005, a Macbook Pro in 2007 and an iPhone in 2009. Before that my exposure to Apple had been limited to a couple of times at an aunt who owned one for DTP work. I have used nearly all flavours of Windows and Linux, over 50 different mobile phones (job related), over a dozen PDAs (Palm, WinCE PocketPC, WinMob). Only some stuff from IBM (now Lenovo) comes close in build quality.
  I'm not saying it never breaks or doesn't have design flaws sometimes, but in general it's a joy to use Apple products. The interfaces are very intuitive, consistent and a real effort has been made to minimize the effort you have to do to get to your goal. Sometimes at the expense of choice and features. The best example is still that when the iMac came out, it had just USB and Firewire, no Serial or Parallel ports, PS/2 or floppy drive. At the time they were laughed at, peripherals would never use USB and the floppy was essential. I think time proved that they were right.
  Since I started buying Apple, my "gadget hunger" has greatly diminished. The only thing I am considering is an iPad and I since bought a NAS for backup purposes. None of the other things I used to look at hold any interest to me any more, it just doesn't compete. The Apple stuff might be a bit on the expensive side, but because it has high end specs when new, they last very long, especially because Apple keeps providing software updates. My 4 year old Macbook is still fine, it's only got updated to OSX 10.6 from 10.4 for 29 euros. All the updates to my iPhone 3GS have been free. Between those two devices there isn't a single thing that I can't do, but want to do.
  I know that I'm sounding a bit like a fanboy, and maybe I am, but that's especially because I have used so many other devices from other manufacturers and none have given me as few reasons to want to throw it out the window as the Apple products I have.
  
  --
  RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
6. Re:Apple users... by mkiwi · 2011-02-09 15:14 · Score: 2
  
  Funny mods don't give you karma, which is possibly what the moderator wanted to do.
  There was a quote along the lines of, "You get karma for being smart, not for being a smart-ass," (cmdrtaco) in some of the /. literature. Modding something all funny with a couple of trolls squeezed in there is a great way to lower someone's karma, because you can have a +5 funny comment with, say, 10 troll moderations.
  Troll Mod = lose karma, funny mod = no change
  That's why meta moderation is rather important.
7. Re:Apple users... by JoeytheSquid · 2011-02-09 17:16 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Let me guess, disgruntled Android user?
  
  More seriously though, Fanboyism is a fickle thing. I currently use iOS, Android and webOS. While I consider each platform to have its inherent strengths and weaknesses, I'm very aware that liking Apple in tech circles carries a certain amount of baggage. Apparently the platform can't be good and anyone who owns an Apple product is merely a sheep buying into marketing propaganda in their quest to be cool (which brings up a question, if I place an Apple sticker on my Kia Rio, do they cancel one another out? Or do they double up into a giant ball of lameness?).
  
  The funny thing is it goes beyond liking Apple. Criticizing Android can make you an iFan too. I offered up some fairly constructive criticism of my Archos tablet in a public forum and was essentially told to go home and spoon my iPad. However I don't own an iPad and spooning my Archos just proved to be uncomfortable for the both of us.
  
  Thankfully I've come to realize it's just an Android thing. When webOS users recently found out that we might be getting screwed out of the 2.0 updates for our legacy gear, just about everyone in the community was universally ticked. However when the same thing happens to a Android phone not getting an update to froyo, the hive mind heckles the dissenters. Apparently phones not getting updates is a good thing on Android because you're free to root it, void your warranty and install dodgy firmware made by some kid in his spare time.
  
  Anyway, I don't pretend to understand the hows or whys, and I've already written a book here, but there's just something about Apple and Android that doesn't mix. And it's a sad that there's not more mutual respect between the two camps because the mere existence of each platform ultimately benefits the other.
Blast it Spock! by RevWaldo · 2011-02-09 10:21 · Score: 3, Funny

- Blast it Spock, this phone keeps cutting out! It's the fool antenna. The reception dies out when I grip it like this.
- Dr. McCoy, the problem you are describing has never been scientifically replicated, despite numerous attempts to do so. The so-called "death grip" problem with the iPhone is merely a rumor, bordering on superstition, based on conjecture from overzealous bloggers, referencing anecdotal evidence, who know nothing at all about antenna design, much less the basic principles of electromagnetism.
- Well your reliance on logic and the scientific method doesn't help explain why my calls keep getting dropped.
- I own an iPhone myself and have never experienced any such problems.
- Huh. Must be those pointy ears of yours, give you better reception.
- (mutters) Case. In. Point.

.

--
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
Re:God here we go again.....all phones have the is by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2011-02-09 10:31 · Score: 4, Insightful

The iphone 4 has a VERY real problem when you hold it not in some magical "death grip"....
... according to everybody but the owners of the phone.

I get a little sick of the disingenuous fanboi defense...
Look up the word 'sensationalism'

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"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
To be clear... by EmotionToilet · 2011-02-09 10:43 · Score: 2

I work at a place that sells a lot of iPhones and when the antenna thing happened we didn't even see one iPhone get returned. Not one, for any reason. So I'm sure from Apple's perspective there's no reason to change something that sells well with zero returns.
This just in... by joeyblades · 2011-02-09 10:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

My Samsung Mythic is also 'haunted' by a death grip...
My Blackberry Pearl (before that) - 'haunted' by a death grip...
Ironically... daughter's iPhone 4 - no death grip...
Somewhere, though already long since dead, a horse is continuously beaten... but the rest of the world moves on...
1. Re:This just in... by mjwx · 2011-02-09 17:39 · Score: 2
  
  My Motorola Milestone - no death grip.
  
  My mates Samsung Galaxy S - no death grip.
  
  My sisters Iphone 4 - drops calls all the time and that is very uncommon for phones in Australia. Just hold it and watch the bars drop away, even after the SW update that was meant to hide it.
  
  My Motorola milestone has OK reception at my work and Bad reception at my house (but still works, it's about -85 to -95 dBm). An Iphone 4 has no reception at either place using Australia's supposedly "superior" Telstra network.
  
  My anecdotal evidence rips your anecdotal evidence to shreds.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Re:God here we go again.....all phones have the is by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2011-02-09 14:31 · Score: 2

Every iphone 4 I've seen coworkers using lately has one of those rubber bumpers on it.

"Oh, neat, free stuff!"

This suggests to me that there is a severe problem...
The lack of returns on the iPhone should suggest otherwise.
Don't forget that the sites that keep insisting it's a big problem are also the same sites that make out like bandits when people get into fanboy wars. But.... now I'm explaining sensationalism. Funny that.

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"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Other phones with death grips... by catchblue22 · 2011-02-09 15:57 · Score: 2

I've seen video of most other major smart phone with a similar "death grip". For example, this video shows a Blackberry Bold with a significant signal loss when held a certain way. Why the hysterics over the iPhone? It feels as if Slashdot is being gamed in a PR campaign.

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This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
Non-issue by kehren77 · 2011-02-10 13:31 · Score: 2

First, I will admit that I am an Apple fanboy.
That said has anyone looked at how you have to grip the phone for this to happen? Who the hell holds their phone like that? Are you using it in a hurricane and don't want it to blow away? Seriously non-issue.