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Will the Apple TV Become a Gaming Platform?
An anonymous reader writes "New data strings uncovered in the recently released iOS 4.3 beta 3 suggest that Apple may have grand ambitions for its little hobby known as the Apple TV: the device may soon transform into a gaming platform."
Do we really need yet another Apple-controlled walled garden? Don't we have enough of those already?
Apple already tried a gaming platform back in the day. It was called the Pippin.
Is this idea gonna fly?
I was going to say the same at first, but then it occurred to me that it's not like the other consoles and whatnot are exactly open, are they? Control freakery is the norm, call-home DRM and collecting information about your every move too, and let's not forget that Sony just removed an official feature in a firmware patch.
And then we have such historical cases as Nintendo in it's NES days. Good Lord! Not only they determined what you can publish for their console, but also how many units you're allowed to sell, how many cartridges must you buy from them (whether or not you actually sell that many copies of the game), _and_ you had to write off the right to make software for any other platform for two years for the privilege of publishing for the self-important Nintendo. Took a lawsuit to get that crap removed.
Frankly, I don't think Apple can be any worse than the rest of the gang even if they were to try to.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Given the success of gaming on the iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad, it makes sense that Apple could provide installable application support on the AppleTV, now that it too has joined the iOS platform family.
It is worth pointing out, though, that with the addition of AirPlay, there is no reason why developers can't use the AppleTV as a remote display for a game, whilst the device (iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad) acts as a controller. Similarly, why not use these devices to control applications running on AppleTV? The Apple Remote app already does this, and I have a pinball game running on my Mac that is controlled by the iPhone - it is a reasonably good controller.
Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.
If Apple was giving up on Apple TV, it would have done it a long time ago. An Apple TV with apps and games makes perfect sense. I'm not convinced it will be successful outside the Apple fanbase, but they'll keep on trying because there's money to be made in selling films and TV programs on-demand.
I would suspect that the vast majority of AppleTV users already have a portable iOS device (iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad). These could be used as controllers, given that gaming controls have already been proven on these devices.
Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.
We're all consumers at some level, and whilst people consume, others will always create.
One of the things that has really surprised me about gaming on the iPad is the sheer variety of ideas. Whilst the platform hasn't pushed boundaries in terms of graphics, it has done so in other areas, and this has largely been driven by independent developers that are not afraid to try out new ideas. Have you played Papa Sangre yet?
Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.
Apple is not a gamer company. iOS games are only used casually, and Apple hardware scores badly in the cost vs performance tradeoff. Gamers want to be able to tweak their hardware and Apple is not likely to allow this. So for casual games, Apple won't be able to compete with the Wii on the low end, and won't be willing or able to provide high end gaming gear to the hardcore gaming crowd. So this is like Rolls Royce selling bikes - won't work. Combined with the expected resignation of Apple's Glorious Leader Kim Il Steve, this will only improve odds for people going short on Apple.
AirPlay is a streaming protocol that buffers video before playback. Delay is unnoticeable when your sharing media, but would be unacceptable for gaming. However look at the (fantastic!) iOS game The Incident: when playing on iPad with iPad sending output to TV, you can use your iPhone/iPod Touch as a controller. Swap iPad for Apple TV and you get this rumor. Many other examples that use ios devices as controllers in intresting ways, for example Chopper 2 and Scrabble. As for "walled garden", isn't every existing game platform tightly managed? (ps3, xbox, wii)
And how is that different from almost EVERY TV AND GAMES CONSOLE EVER SOLD IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND? Sorry for the caps but you either do not remember the past correctly or seem to have an extremely selective memory. Maybe I'm totally off base here, but even after the introduction of the apple TV you can still build and piece together your own computer. And software. And games. And movies. And music. And drawings. And and and and and. By your definition books were incredibly evil because all a book really allows you to do is "consume content".
Monstar L
Apple is much like Microsoft these days in the fact their core business is making enough money that they can justify losses in other sectors.
iTV has been a complete and utter failure compared to other DVR systems. The market is already saturated with cheap DVR devices that can do more than the iTV can and this is obvious to the outside observer. Geeks are getting things like Boxee, normal people are getting Chinese made DVR's at walmart. Idiots are buying them from their Pay TV companies.
Hell, even setting up a Windows based media centre is a simple task for anyone with enough skill to install Windows 7. Apple lost out on this market with Apple TV yet they released another version. The only people with iTV's I know are the hopeless Apple fanboys who buy everything from Apple regardless (even the regular fanboys avoid iTV).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Overpriced? Best value XBMC hardware device on the planet.
Apple has been launching a lot of "sneak attacks" lately. :P
The iPod was innocent enough, but through it they effectively (and quietly) ate up a chuck of the PDA market via the iPod Touch.
Via the iPhone, they are starting to threaten Sony's and Nintendo's handheld console market.
Gaming on the Apple TV seems to be the latest "salvo".
PS: I suppose most consider the Apple TV as a failure. While I don't own one, it doesn't seem that bad. It's a cheap "media" server that lets you rent videos and watch them on your HD TV, as well as display/playback media streamed from a computer network.
Overpriced? Really? It's $99. Why don't you just post "I hate Apple" instead of trying to pretend to put reason behind your post. $99 is cheap and AppleTV works very well for what it does.
Angry Birds HD? Apple ceded the gaming field to Microsoft many moons ago, and hasn't done anything to position itself to compete in that environment since. Besides which, does Apple TV even have enough of a foothold for Apple to use it as a wedge into console gaming? Granted, this is anecdotal, but no one I know has Apple TV, and I have a couple of friends who would buy anything with a lower-case 'i' in the front. In fact, those same people use competing products which aren't handicapped by Apple's antagonism towards third-party developers.
I mean, I'm sure there are Apple fans who will buy anything Apple releases for gaming, and then tell everyone they know about how much better Apple TV is for gaming purposes than a PS3, Xbox360, or Wii, but I just don't see console gamers flocking to Apple TV. Nor do I believe that Apple TV will gain enough of a footprint as a media device to give Apple a foothold for gaming. Other multipurpose devices do what Apple TV does, only better, cheaper, and without the limitations. I don't own one, but I'm assuming that, like most Apple products, you only see the full functionality when you combine it with other Apple products.
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Thank G you were here to point out this gaping hole in their strategy. I'm sure Apple totally overlooked this and never would have thought of it without your brilliant insight.
Apple TV was never a DVR system. It's a video rental system for iTunes and a media extender for iPad/iPhone and iTunes on OSX.
In so far as the iTV can't record anything, it's not a DVR.
Y'know I'd buy one if Apple resurrected some old Mac games:
The Ancient Art of War
Armor Alley
Balance of Power
The Fools Errand
Cap'n Magneto
Continuum
Core War
Dark Castle
Dungeon of Doom
and
Orlando Poon's Toxic Ravine Clean-Up and Rescue Service
Shoot me, I'm old.
I'm a little confused by this. Is there a new Apple TV device coming out? Does the newest Apple TV device have any storage capacity? Do they expect people to own an iPhone so that there is a decent controller? Seems like an afterthought to me.
At the same time, Nintendo look increasingly like a successful toy manufacturer, who have feet of clay when it comes to actually making interesting games - and in attracting decent third party developers.
This will only be a success as a way of tying interactive content with TV shows. Unfortunately, established game makers have managed to accomplish a mathematical paradox: they've made tie-in into a 4 letter word.
Still, I see tremendous potential for folks like Zynga doing tie-ins with big media events. How about "Drinking Game"? People publish sets of rules before an event. (Academy Awards?) Then, you get to watch a set of virtual college students get sloshed playing the game. Viewers will vote up or vote down claims that rules were triggered. Drinking with the virtual students is entirely optional, of course.
It might be "cheapest". However that doesn't necessarily make it the best value.
It's really funny how the same fanboys that used to screech about their computers being BMWs happily embrace this cheap and crappy approach that Apple has taken with it's newer devices.
I would rather run XBMC on hardware that can actually play all the stuff I own and all the stuff I am likely to acquire and won't force me to limit myself or limit myself to what Apple sells (or something that's degraded to the point where it might as well have been).
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
The current generation AppleTV has Bluetooth for input and 8GB of flash that are inaccessable currently.
What Apple didn't have was a large base of apps that don't require touch screen and many of the other hardware expectations of the current iOS devices.
Introduction of the Mac Appstore fixes that and readies the AppleTV to become a portal for those Apps to be put onto an iOS device. You have to look at it from a very high level looking down at the synergies between the computers and their iOS devices. The overarching plan is to make development for any of them just as easy as the next and make Applications readily available across all devices. I expect that to be a huge focus for LION and this year's WWDC.
Gaming controls have already been proven to suck on those devices.
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If so, keyboards will work natively with it just like they do with the iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch.
I've never thought to try a bluetooth mouse with an iOS device but I suspect that it wouldn't work. The GUI doens't have a mouse pointer.
Steve? I thought you were on medical leave!
our angry avian overlords.
I have excellent Karma and I am not afraid to Troll it.
I don't think $60/game publishing houses are going to be too happy about competing directly with an iOS gaming device attached to living room T.V.'s. Nintendo was already crying in it's beer about the $1-$5 price points of iOS mobile games.
Saurik said it best: "Engadget seriously believes that "ATVGamesStandingsController" has to do with physical game controllers as opposed to model-view-controller."
my other computer is your Windows(tm) box...
This would be a great way for Apple to introduce the notion I have believed would happen sooner than later. The entire line of Apple products will go to a multicore ARM hardware configuration, and what better way to do it than with a cheap introduction for lower power consumption and footprint than a gaming console for hard core graphics rendering and networking needs. I'm not a fanboy of Apple, at least for the past 4+ years since the introduction of Intel into the product lines. However, this may get me back into the fold if it were to happen.
I'm really starting to think some of you have sentences like your first one on a macro, and it's easier to just claim that something Apple makes is failed and overpriced than to observe reality and comment upon it.
The AppleTV is $99 freaking dollars and makes an effective iOS device for your TV, streams your stuff from your home LAN and will, when Apple's cloud initiatives play out, provide a cheap, easy-to-use interface to the music, movies, shows, books and everything that Apple will be pushing through its store. As a casual gamer, I'm considering getting rid of my PS3 altogether, since 90 percent of what I use it for the AppleTV can do, and I don't have to worry about Sony suing me if I hold my mouth the wrong way while I play. Yes, it's unnecessary, but what isn't in this sector?
I'd say it's a little early yet to be calling the AppleTV a "failed" product...its potential hasn't even nearly been realized.
I can go ahead and guarantee you that it will play better with my Mac upstairs than my PS3 does when it comes to streaming media to my TV/surround setup. That alone justifies $99, so I don't have to climb up into my loft to restart the streaming server twice a day.
Apple's stuff just works, and just works together. That's what keeps people coming back.
iTV has been a complete and utter failure compared to other DVR systems. The market is already saturated with cheap DVR devices that can do more than the iTV can and this is obvious to the outside observer.
And that is why they're adding stuff to the Apple TV that your average Far Eastern video box can't do.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
Ah no, but I own a book and if I don't like a page I can tear it out, so I've got freedom.
(This is sarcasm)
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
I think there's an emerging market for active low wattage, always-on, local/internet connected home devices. It'll use less power then any PC/console and be easier to setup then a Linux wall plug computer. I can think of a few examples
Opening up the AppleTV to an apps market can really push its usefulness out when app developers think of it as a part of the household..
It's $99, and one of the best XBMC devices out there right now. The old ones can even be upgraded to 1080p by swapping out the wifi card with an HD decoder (you are then limited to ethernet only). Hardly overpriced compared to the other stuff in the market that fills the same niche.
Agreed, but your are talking about a tiny slice of the potential market.
Not for the bulk of consumers, not when usability is a factor in measuring performance (and value).
Not at all! the AppleTV retails for less than the Wii!
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
i would argue that a fucking xbox 360 is better suited. you can access media on any of the pcs in your home network (in full hd) and there is no need to hack around. also, you can play awesome games. and its 200$.
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
You've already got millions of peeps buying these Apple TVs, which are fairly capable computers attached to everyone's TVs. It's a no brainer for Apple to enable users to link their iPhones/iPods wirelessly to their Apple TVs to use them as accelerometer and gyroscope based control devices for games...and to let the 3rd party game development community do their thing
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
IANAAFanboi, but my ATV2 runs XBMC and plays all the stuff I own. I never connect to the Apple store.
I have both an AppleTV (current iOS model) and PS3 connected via WiFi to an AirPort Extreme with dual-band (and even two networks (the guest network option) for a while) with absolutely no problem. I'd look into the settings on your base station, or perhaps the hardware itself has a problem. There's a log in the AirPort Utility you can use to troubleshoot.
Lastly, sometimes just changing the settings and saving them, then changing them right back, fixes odd WiFi router problems.
What? The *TV* is all about consuming content, not creating it. The things you plug into a TV just help you consume more/different/better content. Your DVR, cable box, PS3/Xbox360/Wii, XBMC, AppleTV, etc., are all consumption devices, and *NONE* of them are creation devices. Not even your video or still camera are content creation devices while they're plugged into your TV.
If you want to create content, Apple (and others) have plenty of powerful machines for doing just that. Adding gaming to the AppleTV will not make the Mac vanish, nor will your PC suddenly find itself incapable of creating content.
You can't run XBMC on an Xbox 360, which is what we're talking about here.
I am aware there are other media centre solutions on the software side, but we are talking XBMC hardware here.
Overpriced? Really? It's $99. Why don't you just post "I hate Apple" instead of trying to pretend to put reason behind your post. $99 is cheap and AppleTV works very well for what it does.
Apple TV is also found in enterprise too as a handy wireless connection for keynote (ppt) presentations.
It is so small you can easily pocket it.
I recommend ASL users to use it too for group meetings. BTW ASL users will be in high cotton when the iPad 3G has FaceTime like the iPhone.
When will Google TV become a gaming platform?
you don't NEED to run xmbc on xbox. it already IS a media center.
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
I know that, but that's irrelevant. The discussion is about XBMC and the hardware it runs on.
If I'd wanted a large, noisily-fan-cooled, media centre then perhaps the Xbox 360 would be an option. Especially if I actually had any interest *at all* in console games, which I really don't.
So, I could spend $200 on getting a large, noisy Xbox 360 and only ever using it as a media centre, or I could spend $99 to get a small, fanless media centre that works well with the media centre I have upstairs because it's also XBMC. Alternatively I could spend a little more (edging towards the cost of an Xbox 360) to get something like a Revo, if your post is really just a thinly veiled "zomg anything but Apple". For that sort of money you get a hard drive (unlike the $200 360) and it's still much smaller.
This an Apple walled garden. Is much eviler than other walled gardens 'cause it's Apple. And Apple's teh gay.
I drank what? -- Socrates