Teenager Tries To Hire Hitman Via Facebook

An anonymous reader writes "Hiring a hitman can cost a pretty penny these days. Why buy an ad in the classifieds section when you can simply use Facebook? Of course, you may end up having to face 11 to 22 years in prison, but that's worth the risk, right? That's what happened to 19-year-old Corey C. Adams of Pennsylvania. Last June, Adams' 20-year-old victim said after she left a party, he jumped into her car and raped her. She went to police. He went to Facebook. Specifically, his status update read: 'I got 500 on a girls head who wants that bread? Hit me up anyway possible.'"

Comments

Anyone like it?

[Toe, The]

How many "likes" did his Facebook posts get?

Re:Anyone like it?

[228e2]

I wonder if liking the status could make you an accomplice.

No, im serious . . . could it?

A Classic Story

[mattwrock]

Boy meetsgGirl, boy rapes girl, and tries to have her killed... Wait, I don't think I saw that on the Sopranos... What a douchebag!

What a shitbag...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I wonder how much amusement his fellow inmates will have with the phrase "hit me up anyway possible"?

Re:What a shitbag...

[bluefoxlucid]

This is why I am a proponent of everybody studying martial arts. He raped her 'cause he's bigger and stronger. If you are going to go after someone who knows Judo or, god forbid, Silat, you're going to get hurt. You might WIN (if they don't study Pentjak Silat-- sorry but those people kill first, ask questions later), and rape them, but you are going to get hurt. If you intend to take this out too far, expect to have a lot of angry friends show up at your house to talk about the cast (or body); and that falls under "premeditated" when the cops show up.

One way or another, these people will get off the street.

Also important, a lot of emotional damage from rape comes from the girl feeling hopeless and defenseless. If she kicks the shit out of you and still gets raped, the only thing she is going to feel is "When is round two you motherfucker?!" We like to arrest people for assault; but the truth is people inherently know that other people shouldn't have to suffer because you're a dick, and so they punch you in the face. When they don't feel so defenseless, they're less inclined to blame themselves for shit other people do to them.

Re:What a shitbag...

[PrescriptionWarning]

but then if _everybody_ knew martial arts, including the attacker, the benefit to the victim is completely lost

Re:What a shitbag...

[tverbeek]

Next you'll be arguing that giving everybody firearms wouldn't solve everything, which is just... well, OK, it's true.

Re:What a shitbag...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because only people with good intentions learn martial arts.

Re:What a shitbag...

[niado]

This post (though raising some interesting points) highlights some common misconceptions about martial arts. Martial arts (and fighting in general) are not magical. Just because you have "studied" some martial arts - fighting styles, techniques, conditioning, whatever - does not mean you will be equipped to defend yourself in a real-life scenario. Martial arts training is especially weak in situations where the victim has an extreme disadvantage, and when life is on the line. Most martial arts (including Judo, mentioned above) are primarily only valid in sport situations, where ground rules are laid out and the combatants know (at least roughly) what the other person is capable of doing/allowed to do.

If a 120 pound woman who has trained in some kind of standard martial arts (let's say jiu-jitsu and kickboxing) consistently for 10 years (a LONG TIME) is attacked by a 220 pound potential rapist who has no martial arts training outside of the occasional bar fight, my money is going on the rapist. Maybe she punches or kicks him in the face and leaves a bruise or knocks a few teeth out...and maybe he retaliates by beating her senseless with a few clumsy blows that she doesn't have the physical strength to block. Maybe she is able to break his arm, and maybe he retaliates by lifting her bodily and putting her head through a windshield. Maybe he catches her unawares and injures her so badly she is unable to put up any kind of effective defense. Maybe she is able to fight him off without being raped/killed/hospitalized, but I do not like her chances. Rapists are not known for fighting fair.

This is not to say that martial arts training is not good or useful. Martial arts training can be used to build confidence, make people aware of potential violence, help people remain calm in violent situations, and sometimes give people the tools that they do need to actually defend themselves - but it is definitely not some magical rape-prevention tactic.

Re:What a shitbag...

[Anonymous Coward]

They actually make that, though it's marketed to women in Africa where rape is much larger problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-rape_device#Rape-aXe

Re:What a shitbag...

[Lumpy]

What does though is to reach up and grab ahold of an ear and simply pull down or foreward quickly. the human ear detaches from the head very easily.

Your rapist will freak out pretty bad when you rip his fucking ears off. plus it makes identification easier.... "he is the one without ears."

Re:What a shitbag...

[GameboyRMH]

Or you could a gun.

But what if you accidentally the whole thing?

Re:What a shitbag...

[linuxwolf69]

I teach my kids two things about a real attack. 1) If you cannot avoid a fight, incapacitate as quickly as possible. 2) There are NO RULES! Anything goes. This is best handled by either taking out a knee (something like 8 - 10 pounds of pressure on the front of the knee can break it) or kicking / hitting / grabbing a guy in the groin. I know in the real world that the attacker is not going to fight fair. Why should I expect myself, or my kids, to follow some code? The only way to even potentially avoid serious injury or death in a real attack is to incapacitate the attacker as quickly and efficiently as possible. If you do nothing, you run the risk of rape or death. If you fight, you run the risk of rape or death. Seems like the person potentially has nothing to lose, especially since most attackers are not going to say "I'm just going to knock you out and take your purse / wallet." You don't know their intentions.

Re:What a shitbag...

[bluefoxlucid]

Prohibitively time consuming like learning to bounce a ball off a wall, playing "baseball" or "soccer" with minimal rules, and otherwise just taking "Physical Education" classes that don't actually teach a sportsman game or anything but instead just keep the kids busy for a while as a form of recreation? Oh, wait, that's school.

In my school, we spent an entire year where "phys ed" == "wrestling." I keep forgetting I have those moves in reserve if I need them; it just so happens that if I need to restrain someone I'll lock their arm behind their back or throw them in a headlock or whatever if it becomes obvious and convenient, a reflex I learned in high school. There is no slapping each other around like angry retards. As soon as you pass me, your arm's in reach, you don't have 5 other friends helping kick my ass, and I need you stopped, my hands go right where they belong and your arm is now in a position that's very painful for you if you don't cooperate. That's how a martial art works. (headlocks are kind of fancy; arm locks are an opportunity every three seconds).

In Japan, Judo is compulsory public school education. Wrestling was here; I'm not the greatest wrestler, but if you don't guard your nuts you're getting kneed in the groin. Fights are about stamina, in many ways; and as we know from Go, when you are on the winning end you can go easy, but when you are behind you must take bigger risks and make more aggressive plays. Do you really want to fight a Judoka or Wrestler who you can beat, but is now very desperate and does have fighting capability?

What's "time consuming" first off can be somewhat merged into general education, or your fitness program (wait, what? Your whole life is sitting on your ass? Fail.); and second off can save your life.

Re:What a shitbag...

[interkin3tic]

As most rape cases are not assault cases against sober victims

If Jackie Chan has taught me anything, being drunk gives you UNSTOPPABLE kung fu powers.

Re:What a shitbag...

[Zironic]

The problem would be that you don't know /how/ he would freak out, for all you know he might respond by beating you to death.

Re:What a shitbag...

[Zironic]

Odds are that you'll never be in a real fight, and if you ever are, those wrestling skills won't in the end help very much because real fighting and practice are quite different.

There's nothing wrong with practicing Martial Arts for recreational purposes or for fitness or whatever, but just like you probably won't end up a soccer champion just because you were taught soccer in Phys Ed you probably won't get much RL benefit from the MA classes either (beyond the exercise and fun).

Re:What a shitbag...

[UnknownSoldier]

> This is why I am a proponent of everybody studying martial arts. He raped her 'cause he's bigger and stronger.

Not that I disagree with you, but there are a few points to consider:

1. How long have you -actually- studied MA for?

Size MATTERS.

Aikido uses the momentum of the attacker against the attacker, IF you are able to pull the move off. If not, all that extra weight (and Strength) is going to hurt.

Not that knowing some Judo wouldn't hurt; I agree knowing SOME MA would help. The question is, can a person who is in a panic situtation remain calm enough to remember there training and do it? I would love to see some stats on women who have taken defensive martial arts and see if it helped?

One thing you never addressed is that MA builds your confidence. The strong prey on the weak, as humans we are part animals and are susceptible to this -- showing signs of confidence / assertiveness helps the attacker to shy away from them and to go prey on someone else [weaker].

2. Let's say we are in some mythical world where everyone knows MA.

This does nothing to stop _why_ the rapist did the act in the first place. You can't solve a mental problem with a physical solution, all you are doing is treating the symptom, not addressing the cause.

For the record, I was going to knee-jerk and say this wouldn't solve anything. At best, even the rapists will know martial artists, and you've just pushed the problem up one "level." But in reflecting, this is exactly what happens with guns + criminals preying upon the innocent -- they are less likely to invade someone's home when they know that they can get shot (or killed) because the home owner is defending his property. So in this point, I concede.

Cheers

Re:What a shitbag...

[bluefoxlucid]

and I've met very few people that have martial arts training that also have the proper attitude (that aren't ex-military or ex-cons; I'm both).

I'm the opposite case. No martial arts training until recently, tiny guy, and fighting me has always been a losing battle. I've never actually believed anyone could beat me in a fight and whenever I got jumped in school (immature kids...), even if they're like twice my size or bigger, they lost. I mean I've been beaten... but I just didn't care; they hit me, they threw me into walls, and it never occurred to me that "oh shit, some huge fucking guy is kicking my ass!" The only thing that came to me is fighting back.

When I started taking martial arts it seemed so awesome though. I learned things I never noticed, got reflexes I never had, but I really don't want to fight some of these people. I would avoid it. I would still win I'm sure; maybe with brain injury and a broken arm. I am still the wrong person to get in a fight with; but I'm well aware there are a lot of people I can't win against. They will still get hurt in the process.

But you're right, I suppose. I know people who do not understand. They study a martial art, but they don't consider fighting. It's not that you have to train some different way; the truth of the matter is that you have to, at some time or another, stop and think, "Yeah, this could actually happen, and I have to do this." You have to know that what you're doing isn't for some "imaginary" fight that might happen; it's a weapon you carry. If it's just a dance for you so you can say, "Hey, I know Judo," that's all you're going to learn: a cute dance. When you look at the training as a weapon for your self defense, not just intellectually but seriously, you are suddenly armed.

Another thought on your story though, most people aren't prepared to fight friends. A lot of people aren't quite set with the idea of actually fighting someone they're on good terms with. When you can't accept that you just might hurt them, or get hurt in the process, it's harder. If one of my friends wants to spar, he might get hurt ... not bad, but he's going to get hit. Might bleed. I won't break any bones. Still, if that's what's coming then sure, I can do that. Most people can't.

You do raise some good points though. At my dojo we follow great proverb: short fights are better fights. If you win in 3 seconds, you win; if you don't win in 3 seconds, your opponent has more than 3 seconds to win. This also goes with the corollary: get cut once. If someone comes at you with a knife, you will probably get cut. You can deflect it, control it, maybe you get a gash on the OUTSIDE of your arm; but you can also trap their arm in the process and break it, and then they have a broken arm and you have their knife. That's called "winning" by most measures, because when you have a broken arm and your opponent has taken your knife you are a fool to continue this fight. Thus your first response to being attacked should be "win," which is why nothing in Aikido is in the form "Block, step back, clear, face your opponent down and wait for the next attack." EVERYTHING in Silat is meant to break something, but even before that it's meant to get your opponent close to you where they can't attack (as in Go: play away to attack; play close to defend), and before that to get out of the way of the attack (at least if you screw something up, you pass them by, and can run while they try to reorient).

I do tend to avoid getting in the first shot, though. If someone looks like he's going to attack me... I wait. I wait for the attack, but I wait. I would be pleased to have a weapon handed to me, either a knife or a club or just a fist.

Re:What a shitbag...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I would have replied earlier; but my computer snow crashed.

Re:What a shitbag...

[FuckingNickName]

The dog didn't think you were a threat, you dumb shit.

Re:What a shitbag...

[bluefoxlucid]

I mean most people say "You've never been in a fight" or "you'll never be in a fight" like they somehow have god-like relevant experience, then either talk about how they've beaten people up at the bar (I have met these people, they went on to become marines, but they were wusses when I met them who basically figured "PUNCH A LOT AND HARD AND YOU WILL WIN" was a 100% perfect strategy) or just about how martial arts is ninja-shit for movies and real life relies 100% on muscles.

In other words, most people are stupid and ignorant.

Re:What a shitbag...

[bluefoxlucid]

It's not exactly an issue with "better," especially when discussing self-defense. Silat is, however, rather violent. I've had entire nights when I've learned nothing generally useful because the holds and locks are ... faulty. Difficult. Complex. The position I get in is somewhat useful, but really it's "drop this way and his arm breaks" "Lean here and shatter the knee" "over, down, move your leg here and the back of his skull smashes against your knee" and so on. All fatal or permanently maiming.

And it's fast. Most of this shit assumes you're outnumbered 10 to 1, and I don't mean all by your lonesome. 100 little indonesian guys against 1000 mongolian invaders. The idea is that the second somebody comes at you, they're dead and you're engaging the next guy before they hit the ground. There is no fight; there is death on the way past. The "fight" lasts one second.

This is in stark contrast to Judo, where somebody comes up behind you and you go Race Bannon on them and flip them forward over your shoulder. Or they drive at you with a knife and you wheel them up and over your shoulder on their own momentum. Or you apply locks and holds and whatever else. In Judo everything looks like a choreographed dance; in real life, when you feel like you're struggling, you abandon that idea and move into a different Judo motion. In Silat, everything just looks like death walking; in real life it works exactly like in training. Both of these are effective; one is just horribly nasty.

I have no delusions about how the world works; it probably won't happen, hopefully not, but in some situations someone simply has to die. If that's all I can do, especially if I can't safely disarm someone with a gun in a crowded area (hey, his arm waving around is a bullet waiting to go off into someone else), this may have to happen. But I prefer to keep closest to me from my Silat training the locks, trips, and other movements that give me swift advantages in a fight. There are plenty of ways to disable someone, for example by dropping to the ground and turning your body when your legs outlie theirs.. kick the back of the knee, the other leg blocks, and as you roll they fall forward and you can put your weight on their back to hold them down. There's a derivative motion that knocks them forward with a sweep and a kick (scissor kick) and then locks your legs on their throat-- ONLY IF THEY DO NOT HAVE A KNIFE. You can make someone pass out by strangulation on that, or just force submission because fuck, you can crush their throat, who the hell is going to continue to fight? ALL of these motions also assume the attacker WILL continue to fight, so we address how to handle his arms and legs if they come back into play.

It's intense, and somewhat rough to train in. It's a lot to learn. And it's amorphous; my guru shows us one entry, some basic theory (lines, angles, footwork; everything is worked off a basic geometry), and then all the possible permutations that could follow and a list of responses we can chose from. They may be appropriate in some situations, not in others; they may be just personal taste; some are more interesting to grapplers, wrestlers, boxers, aikidoka, judoka, etc; sometimes it's a choice between fatality or an arm break or a lock; sometimes you avoid one particular action if a knife is involved; sometimes we play off the idea that you made one attempt and failed or met a counter, so now you have other options besides just breaking away and reclaiming sparring distance to start over. This is not Aikido, you do not learn Ikkyo/Nikkyo/Shihonage/etc.

I recommend you spend 3-6 months in it (I train twice a week) if you can find it, begrudgingly if you must; if you don't grow to like it, or appreciate it, then leave. If you hate it day 1, and 3 months in you still hate it, leave. I recommend against taking your first impression in anything, but also against forcing yourself through things you just don't like. It is, however, a worthy art to investigate.

Re:What a shitbag...

[Elbows]

If you study martial arts seriously, you eventually internalize the moves and you don't *have* to think about them. They just happen. But it requires a serious effort -- you're not going to get to this point from a few gym classes.

When I was in high school I studied karate and jiu-jutsu very seriously for about 4 years, with a few years of casual training before that. One night I was completely drunk, barely able to stand, and someone punched me in the face with no warning -- apparently I said something to piss him off, but in my stupor I was completely unaware of it until the punch landed.

We both fell over. By the time we hit the ground, I had him in a jiu-jitsu "guard", with my legs controlling his body and his arms tied up so he couldn't hit me. I was drunk and surprised, and I certainly didn't have the time or wits to think about anything -- but I didn't need to think. I'd practiced the moves thousands of times and they happened pretty much automatically. (Some friends of mine were nearby and pulled us apart, so that was pretty much the whole fight).

Of course I trained almost every day for several years. And that doesn't make me unbeatable or mean that I have a good chance against a knife or gun. But it is possible to train to fight in a way that really makes a difference in a real situation.

Re:What a shitbag...

[Cederic]

not leaving a party by yourself is the much more obvious step

Just where the fuck do you live that it's acceptable that someone can't leave a party alone?

Don't misunderstand, if a woman's leaving a party late at night I'll check that she's able to get home safely. Telling me she's getting into her car outside and driving home would however qualify.

Having a 20yo tell me he'll escort her to the car would negate any doubts at all. I'm clearly naive, I wouldn't then expect him to force his way into her car and rape her.

A stun gun, pepper spray, or knife probably would have been a more sane approach

All more likely to be used against the woman than by her on a rapist. Actually, all more likely to be used against an innocent man than against a rapist - women are remarkably unlikely to get raped, while men are comparatively likely to get assaulted.

Anyway, you appear to have missed the Snow Crash reference..

Re:What a shitbag...

[GooberToo]

Odds are that you'll never be in a real fight, and if you ever are, those wrestling skills won't in the end help very much because real fighting and practice are quite different.

I dunno about that. I have a Judo background. I was punched in the nose. I then threw the person on the ground and quickly beat him into submission. I had a bloody nose and a black eye from the single punch he landed. He had a shattered hand (it flailed outward as he was thrown and landed on concrete) and a cracked rib.

Just playing around I've made people submit who easily had six inches and fifty pounds on me. Now keep in mind, I'm just a green belt and almost everything I used was learned as a white belt. You don't have to be a master to come out on top. The simple fact is, a little knowledge goes a long way. All too often, when people realize you not only plan to resist, but are capable of resisting, they will move on to easier prey.

Re:What a shitbag...

[davester666]

Next on the market, a helmet, resembling a small motorcycle helmet complete with chin strap, for your second head...

Re:What a shitbag...

[wurble]

A stun gun, pepper spray, or knife probably would have been a more sane approach

All more likely to be used against the woman than by her on a rapist.

*citation needed*

The whole "your weapon is more likely to be used against you" has been trotted out countless times and never once proven or even supported by a modicum of evidence from even a remotely respectable source.

In reality, a number of studies have been done on the topic and all have shown precisely the opposite of what you claim. Research has in fact shown that in cases of rape and attempted rape, victims who resisted with weapons were less likely to be raped than victims who either did not resist or resisted without weapons. The overall injury rate in general was lower and the likelihood of receiving an injury more severe than rape was lower. There is absolutely positively no evidence whatsoever that using a gun or other weapon for self protection may lead to the attacker taking the weapon and using it against the victim. It is a rare occurrence, and in such situations, the worst case scenario was that the outcome was the same as if the victim was unarmed in the first place.

a couple citations:
-Kleck and Sayles "Rape and Resistance" Social Problems May 1990.
-Kleck, Chapter 7 in Armed, by Kleck and Don B. Kates, Jr.


The whole "your weapon will be used against you" is an insidious myth that needs to be dispelled.

Re:What a shitbag...

[Zancarius]

I don't know about the US jurisdictions as I'm Swedish, but here the Self Defense laws are pretty harsh, you're only allowed to use violence to defend yourself to the extent it's necessary to defend yourself, any more then that and you're on the line for Assault/Manslaughter yourself.

Allow me to educate you (and myself, because I honestly don't know what applies to which US jurisdiction as there are so many) insofar as my knowledge stretches to New Mexico and the neighboring States. First, though, I will freely admit that US law is highly convoluted, because it largely depends on the State you're in. This is by design, and the States are granted a great deal of leeway--certainly enough such that a law that applies in one State doesn't in another. Further, even so much as transporting firearms across State lines may require special permits--or not at all. Of course, there's a much deeper discussion to all of this, and the primary reason I'm using US law as an example is because individual cited in the article resides in Pennsylvania.

That said, I have no idea what Pennsylvania law is with regards to use of lethal force, but in New Mexico at least, self defense is fairly lenient; IANAL, but as I understand it, if there is a clear and present danger to you or to others that a violent crime is to be committed, you may use lethal force. Yes, you will probably go to jail until it's sorted out; yes, you will probably have your firearm confiscated; yes, you may wind up going to court. However, all of these "mays" are circumstantial. In the case of a potential rape victim, I highly doubt the victim would be booked by law enforcement. Questioned, certainly, but the laws here as I understand them (as I'm sure they are in Arizona and Texas) have seen some revision specifically for circumstances of self defense and are undoubtedly much more lenient than they are in Sweden. Of course, there are limitations such as the Castle Doctrine and how it applies to personal property (the NM interpretation of it is generally more strict), but there have been some recent changes.

Notably, some years prior, Governor Richardson signed concealed carry into law. This means that as long as your are licensed and authorized by the State, you may carry a firearm concealed with you wherever you go (I do believe it's limited such that CCW is not allowed if you are or are going to drink alcohol and you can be jailed or fined) for the purposes of self defense. There are also many other places where you cannot carry as outlined here (PDF warning).

In NM, these are the applicable laws (as far as I know):

Excusable homicide
Justifiable homicide by public officer or public employee
Justifiable homicide by citizen
When homicide is excusable of justifiable defendant to be acquitted

In particular, NM Law section 30-2-7 may indicate some leniency compared to Sweden:

30-2-7. Justifiable homicide by citizen.
Homicide is justifiable when committed by any person in any of the following cases:
A. when committed in the necessary defense of his life, his family or his property, or in necessarily defending against any unlawful action directed against himself, his wife or family;
B. when committed in the lawful defense of himself or of another and when there is a reasonable ground to believe a design exists to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury against such person or another, and there is imminent danger that th

Re:What a shitbag...

[bluefoxlucid]

See now you're essentially assuming she's trained to use her mace in the same way as someone who's trained to use their firearm/knife/katana effectively. And now we're back where we started: dumb people with no weapon/gun/mace vs smart people who have trained to use whatever weapon they're carrying (including fists). Even some basic knife theory 2 days a week for a few months (never mind a year or two) with a concealed P3 tactical folder in a leather sheath tucked under her belt would make her relatively lethal.

Yes I said a few months. The ROI graph is not slow uptake and then ever-increasing returns; the first few weeks are extremely beneficial, the first several months still much so, five years in you're doing upkeep and slow advancement. There is constant refinement; but the "wow" factor vanishes pretty fast.

For what it's worth, incorporating the use of mace into several months of grappling training even one day a week will make her a lot more dangerous. When somebody grabs her, she now has effective responses to free a hand and access her weapon.

You see where this is going, right? Do a few months of kickboxing, very light, once a week maybe. As soon as she shifts your weight off her leg and you're 4 inches away from her shin.... It just keeps coming. And that's on top of the grappling, and on top of having trained herself to quickly access and use her mace. We are still talking about getting rid of whatever it is that's between her and spraying you in the face with liquefied habeneros. And even if you're competent, now you have a wench with a can of mace in her hand, who is a vaguely competent grappler-- just barely enough to keep your attention-- who might kick you in the gut or nuts. How many places can you divide your attention to? There are too many threats.

Now instead of 0% failure, it's 20% failure. Then 40% failure. Then 50%. It's a coin flip: you get it in or you get kicked in the nuts, maced in the face, and thrown in jail. 50-50. Wanna play that one?

Why the fuck is this on Slashdot?

[BitHive]

Because a rapist used Facebook, it's news for computer geeks? I'm actually kind of offended.

Re:Why the fuck is this on Slashdot?

[roman_mir]

Clearly it's just part of the plan to get more eyeballs on that ad.

So do you need the 500 or not?!

Re:Why the fuck is this on Slashdot?

[killkillkill]

Seriously. We only want to hear about rapists who release secret government documents... I mean alleged rapist... I mean a really nice guy who has no chance of actually being a rapist and was framed by [insert evil western government or corporation name here]. Wow. Almost pissed my karma away.

Re:Why the fuck is this on Slashdot?

[HaZardman27]

Yes, you can filter out idle by adding it to your exclusions in the options menu...

Re:Why the fuck is this on Slashdot?

[somersault]

More like if you took a Biology major and they started teaching you how to tie your shoelaces.

I kind of agree with the guy. The reason I don't look at "normal" news and entertainment sites is that I'm fed up of hearing about every rape, murder, lying politician, etc.. I know these things are happening, and it's sad, but I don't need to be constantly reminded of them, especially when I can do almost exactly nothing to change the way the world is.

misleading headline

[jaymz2k4]

The guy sounds a complete douche but I'm not so sure posting a status update could be considered the same thing as "tried to hire a hitman". It sounds more like the usual passive aggressive comments shared between friends without realising that the police will take it completely seriously and charge you with it. The lesson is, as is ever more clear each day, expect your social network trawled for evidence if you're ever in trouble and take heed of privacy settings. I wonder what would have been made of it had his status update been completely locked to friends only?

Re:misleading headline

[Jim Hall]

TFA isn't that long, so I read it. The girl said she saw the posting, and told police that she feared for her life. The best bit is what happened next:

At the preliminary hearing, West Chester Police Det. Stan Billie testified that he went to Adams’ home and that Adams agreed to meet with him at the police station. Less than 10 minutes later, Adams posted a second Facebook message that said he “needed this girl knocked off right now” Billie testified.

So the guy is even more of a douche. Let's see, post vague message on FB for a hit job. When police ask you to come down to the station (not arrest you and take you to the station, but you agree to meet them there) you post a followup that you really need this girl dead.

Yeah, dumb.

Re:misleading headline

[Antisyzygy]

I suspect he will probably play the "it was a bad joke" defense. Its reasonable enough since a negotiation never took place, and money didn't actually exchange hands. That being the case, I am unaware of the law in that state, but it seems to me the police are making a bigger deal than necessary out of some dumb and douchey kid who obviously deserves time in prison for the rape if he is found not to be innocent. If anything this evidence should only be used as an indication he is not remorseful and the punishment can be adjusted accordingly (once again, if he is found not-innocent).

Mug shot?

[Shoten]

Did anyone notice that the pic of Emil Protalinski (the guy whose ZDNet article was linked in the OP) looks like it could be the mug shot of the criminal in question? Not a good pic...

Seriously?

[Sedated2000]

Are people taking his post seriously because he is accused of raping the girl first? For this to have been legit he'd first need to have hitmen as friends on Facebook, and second he'd have to have pursued it. There are millions of people who say stupid things on Facebook that aren't taken in the same context. I have seen many more explicit posts on Facebook and not one was taken seriously by anyone.

Re:Seriously?

[Skidborg]

If you're not an adult by the time you're 18, the world isn't losing anything if you get locked up.

Re:Seriously?

[517714]

And yet he entered a plea agreement on the charges. FTFA: "The only smart thing Adams did was sign a plea agreement last week for both the rape and solicitation to commit murder charges." That is a pretty strong indication that he was serious.

Re:Status update?

[ChristopherBurg]

Hey, times are tough and you have to find work wherever you can.

Re:Not the brightest bulb in the package.

[Stenchwarrior]

Only if he didn't set is status to "Off to the shower now...blood is messy :-p".

Re:Or a guy just got owned

[Zironic]

If that scenario is true he probably deserves a few years in prison for stupidity alone.

Use the right tool...

[Kenja]

This clearly called for Craigs List not Facebook.

Misunderstood

[hduff]

Maybe he just wanted to know if for $500 we would hit it?

Then the charge is just pimping.

Re:Or a guy just got owned

[dkleinsc]

Or alternately, it's exactly what she said happened. Her story is perfectly plausible, and her behavior afterwords totally consistent with being raped, and then freaking out because it appeared as though her rapist just threatened her life.

Although women are (rightly) encouraged to seek medical aid after being raped and get a rape kit, it's not at all uncommon for a woman who's just been raped to want to go home, take a shower, and do her best to forget the trauma of what just happened. And she might have gotten over it and not pressed charges, except that this moron then posted something up making it appear that he wanted her dead, at which point she very correctly went to the police.

She should have gone to an ER to get a rape kit right away. She should have gone to the police the next morning rather than 2 days later. But there's nothing in her story that remotely suggests she's lying. And frankly, that you would immediately assume that she's making this up in order to ruin this guy's life is offensive to anyone who has or is a friend or relative of anyone who has been raped.

Rules of the Road for Facebook

[squidflakes]

Kids these days, right?

I've got a few friends of friends who like posting pictures of themselves with huge bags of weed, bottles of pills, and on a few occasions, face down over a couple of lines of powder with straws up their noses. The accompanying comments are the real gems though, tagging their dealers, friends, and then the obligatory comment about how fucked up they were.

I want to say that these kids need to wise up and realize that what gets posted on the internet stays on the internet, but after some thought, I wish them the best in their self-incrimination.

Re:Or a guy just got owned

[phantomfive]

Yet another of many good reasons to not have sex with drunken wierdo girls at parties.

Re:A good lawyer should have no problem with this

[Blindman]

Since he pleaded guilty, it would take a very good lawyer indeed

Re:Stupidity

[Farmer Tim]

I'm feckless...oh, feck :(

Re:Or a guy just got owned

[nelsonal]

Something like 99% of roofies tests come back with nothing but ethanol in the blood.

Re:Or a guy just got owned

[Posting=!Working]

Except that is not the order of events. The correct order is:
Girl gets drunk.
Guy rapes girl.
Guy offers money to have her knocked off of Facebook.
Girl goes to police for rape after finding out about the post from the rapist wanting her killed.
Police visit guy.
Guy reiterates assasination offer.
Police arrest guy.

The guy posted the $500 to kill before the girl went to the police about the rape. He knew he had raped her and was probably going to be arrested, tried and convicted - that's why he posted the offer BEFORE the police knew about the rape.

How the hell did the OP get modded insightful? It's not even valid.

Re:Not the brightest bulb in the package.

[painehope]

Yep - it's called retaliation, it's a felony, and it's the easiest thing in the world to get convicted of. Seriously. If you get into a domestic dispute and come back (after you get out of jail...it's generally 1-3 days for a misdemeanor "assault by threat" [which is what you get arrested for when the cops show up, no one is hurt, and they have to haul someone off by law - it doesn't matter if anyone's really done anything...the humorous part is that I've been arrested for it several times, so have various of my exes, and so has my mother...whoever's the loudest or drunkest person in the house goes]) and there's another call, you're likely to get charged with it. I had a friend who got 10 years for ripping the door off his house. His own fucking house and he got charged, just because his girlfriend had called the police and he left, she made a statement, then he came back and she wouldn't let him in. Yes, he was drunk, yes he was an ex-convict...but he hadn't done anything other than damage his own property (because he was locked out). But he still got arrested, parole violated, and got an extra 10 years to boot. And his girlfriend felt really stupid, since he wasn't around to pay for their son or a roof over their head or anything. Dumb bitch, dumb cops.

Now this fucking creep, if he even mentioned "Gee, I'm going to do [whatever]" and someone reported it, he could be charged the same way. It's a very ambiguous law that's often abused. Not that I care what happens to this shitbag...

Re:A hooker

[Anonymous Psychopath]

Would have probably been cheaper than a $500 hitman and would have had fewer legal entanglements than sexual assault.

Rape isn't about sex.

The law about hiring a hitman

[davevr]

IANAL, but I did run a Private Investigation firm. A lot of people are in jail because they didn't understand the law about this.

If you exchange anything of value under the pretense of hiring a hitman, then you are guilty of consipiracy to commit murder. For all intents and purposes, the ability or even the intent of the person you "hire" is not relevant, nor is the amount of total value of the exchange. Just like robbing a bank with a gun counts even if the gun was fake/had no bullets/etc.

Merely saying "I wish someone would kill " is a weaker version of "I will give someone $500 to kill " - solicitation. This is where you get into a slipperly slope of how much that resembles an agreement. For instance, if a 9 year says "I will give you a trillion dollars to kill ", that is not very credible. But if a mafia godfather with a track record of hiring killers and rewarding them merely says "Person is annoying me", that might be sufficient.

The real trouble comes when you exchange something of value. I was working a case once where someone was in prison for conspiracy because they asked someone to kill their girlfriend. The "hitman" asked for $1500. The guy told him he was broke. The "hitman" said "yeah, I could do it for free but I would have to leave town." So the person gave him $15 for bus fare. That was enough to show a contract. It turned out his hitman was an undercover cop. Now the guy is serving 15 years.

So in Facebook, if you said "I will be your neighbor in farmville if you kill her", and someone accepts that gift, that would be the same as you paying some stranger $10k.

Re:The law about hiring a hitman

[phud]

So in Facebook, if you said "I will be your neighbor in farmville if you kill her"

I thought it had to be something of value.

Amusing possibility...

[TheCarp]

I have occasionally wondered what would happen if someone posted a message like that, then when contacted by a "hitman" (which is almost certainly sure to be the police) the person turned around, called the FBI and said "I was joking around online, but somebody contacted me, and I think this guy is serious! He says he has done this before too!"

How much investigation do you think would go on before the local police and FBI realized that they were trying to sting each other?

Not that I would actually recommend anyone doing that but, given how freely some people joke or blow off steam online, I wouldn't be surprised if it has happened without even being intentional.

Re:Or a guy just got owned

[corbettw]

Without physical evidence, it's just her word against his. Since I don't know either of these people, I'm disinclined to believe one over the other, and am willing to grant someone the benefit of the doubt that they are not a rapist (even if the person in question shows questionable judgment in other areas, like posting inappropriately on Facebook).

Women need to STOP destroying evidence of a rape. If you are raped, you suck up whatever feelings you have and GO TO THE HOSPITAL AND HAVE A RAPE KIT DONE. Yes, it might be more intrusion on a delicate area. Yes, it's emotionally difficult. But you know what? If you don't, THE FUCKER WHO DID IT TO YOU WILL DO IT AGAIN TO SOMEONE ELSE. Making everyone woman, everywhere, who fails to do this complicit in future rapes committed by their attacker.

Victims of crime have a responsibility to help ensure the criminal involved goes to prison. Failure to do so is tacit acceptance of unacceptable behavior.

Oh, and lest I come as more of a jerk than usual, the empowerment one can feel from taking charge of a bad situation like this simply cannot be measured. It's a lot more beneficial in the long run than sitting on the floor of a shower, crying to oneself.