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Attacked By Anonymous, HBGary Pulls Out of RSA
itwbennett writes "HBGary Federal cancelled a talk the company's CEO Aaron Barr was planning to give at the BSides San Francisco conference on his investigation of WikiLeaks. 'I was receiving death threats,' Barr said in an interview Tuesday. 'There was lots of talk that was being made of in the Anonymous IRC channels of harassing us at our booth and sending people to heckle [HBGary speakers at the conference].' The company has also decided to pull its booth from the RSA Conference floor after it was vandalized on Sunday, said Jim Butterworth, HBGary's vice president of services. 'We... came back the next morning and it was very apparent that the group responsible for the activities in the news had decided to make another statement,' he said."
Ars has a really good summary of the attack that used really run-of-the-mill stuff from social engineering via e-mail to an SQL injection of HBGary's CMS using this URL: http://www.hbgaryfederal.com/pages.php?pageNav=2&page=27
My work here is dung.
Vandalized booth = a sign that says "Anon...In it 4 The LuLz..." http://yfrog.com/gzbvtllj I was expecting the booth to have been burned to the ground or something.
Let sleeping Agent Smiths lie. Even if they don't have cool matrix moves, there are a lot of them, they are functionally identical for most e-combat related purposes, and of course, they have a record of pulling this kind of stuff off.
Some_Group: Hey guys, let's attack Anonymous! It'll make us rich if we can hack them, an our security can stop their counterattack, right?
Anonymous: No it can't. I'm putting all your embarrassing/incriminating email messages onto the net.
Some_Group: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUU-
I'm not sure why they were concerned. These guys are confident when they're behind a laptop, not when they're face-to-face at a booth. There's no way they'd have done anything in person.
For supposed 'security experts' they do seem pretty weak.
Also I suspect this might well be a publicity stunt to get more attention.
It's an all-out war between the forces of good and evil that has never stopped and will never stop.
Wait, is that part of the Green Lantern Corps creed or something from the Thundercats?
I could take stuff like this more seriously if people didn't have such cartoonish perceptions of what "good" and "evil" actually mean, and stopped trying to pretend they are some sort of freedom fighters when all they are is vandals and bullies who get off on what they are doing
If *real* fascists ever took control in this country, most of these people would shit themselves on a continuous basis before the secret police killed them, their families, their pets, burned down their houses and killed a few others standing around just to send a message.
Want to mess with the NSA, DOD, CIA, and FBI? People talk about when dealing with Anonymous that you shouldn't "poke the bear".
In this case if they want to go to war it would be wise to take a good look at the bears that Anonymous is poking. So this is war... The problem is they are starting a war with people that fight wars for a living and have real guns.
Across the world thousands of basements will soon be going dark.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
So, let's take a look at this:
Option 1: Members or associates of a loose-knit group of hackers who are likely subjects of federal interest after illegally penetrating and utterly humiliating a private-sector spook shop decide that it would be a great idea to show up, in person, at an event with some amount of security likely to be in the vicinity, just to heckle somebody they have already pwned good and hard. They think that this is a good idea because showing up in crowded areas and making a disturbance is an excellent way to remain anonymous.
Option 2: Aaron Barr and the rest of the losers at HBGary really don't want to show their faces at RSA, after having been ruthlessly punked by a bunch of amateurs; but decide to cry about "security threats" in an attempt to look less than totally pathetic.
Y'know, I don't think that this is a terribly difficult decision...
If *real* fascists ever took control in this country, most of these people would shit themselves on a continuous basis before the secret police killed them, their families, their pets, burned down their houses and killed a few others standing around just to send a message.
Which is why attempting to foil incremental steps in that direction, before they reach fruition, is sort of a good idea, no?
Backing down from your beliefs due to threats and attacks will only breed more attacks and threats. While I'm not necessary against Anon, their acts are that of terrorism in this case, and unfortunately, those tactics work.
Protesting is one thing but wanton destruction of property is another. Death threats are well over the top.
These are not things responsible protests groups do in a situation like this. Next time, keep it to rhetoric and, if you are willing to be !Anonymous, picketing in person.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Comical. It really looks like a war of Evil vs Evil. I could care less who wins, the law or the packet kiddies, I simply wish they would stop believing they are doing this for some vague sense of justice.
Anonymous is just the first of many future darknets that will be nearly impossible to destroy. You might take out a ringleader or two, but 4 others would stand up to take their place if they felt that it was unjust. And in the end, it's death by a thousand harmless cuts, or in this case, 1,000 users that don't like something running the their Ion cannons under central control. In this case, this dude is using social networking like facebook to figure out who are hackers. I doubt they have many connections to other hackers on facebook or twitter. It's most likely random unrelated acquaintances, so I think the guy's research is flawed anyway.
The best example of what one of these organized systems could do is a story by Bruce Sterling called Maneki Neko. It is what happens when people get organized but maintain some level of anonymity. We are not to this level yet, but I suspect it right around the corner. It will do strictly good at first, but eventually it will ruin someone's life. Just as Anonymous has ruined some people's lives, they've done a little good for some, like a great birthday. It doesn't justify the destruction, but it's bored kids on the internet, so what are you going to do?
The news media will make a big deal about future 'attacks', but some will be harmless kids having fun. But if you start to push that everyone involved in these groups must be destroyed, those people who are marginally involved will suddenly get VERY involved in your destruction. So be careful.
Gonzo Granzeau
"Nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.." -Roy Batty
They fabricated facts and lied about everything else, most likely they vandalized their own booth.
Anonymous good?
Is making death threats because you do not like someone is going to say at a conference good? Is heckling and yelling them down good? Funny but I have seen those actions in old news reels from the 30s and from old news stories from the 60s. The folks using those tactics where the ones in the brown shirts and the white sheets.
I don't think MLK or Gandhi ever made any death threats to people or hecked them when they presented papers at conferences. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure about that.
Since when is when someone says something you do agree with you make death threats been a sign of being good?
Anonymous is a gang of bullies. People often see bullies and thugs as heroes if they themselves do not ones being bullied. There are people that think the KKK are a bunch of brave freedom fighters.
Anonymous is no differn't right down to hiding their faces. And their fans do not like they people they are abusing.
Anonymous are those peoples brave Knights in white sheets.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Anonymous is trying to suppress information using death threats. That makes them no better than many governments and worse than the U.S. government.
I wonder what people would say if members of Anonymous were on the receiving end of death threats. Some how I bet it would be "Look! They are evil fascists!1!!!1!". Well, as soon as Anonymous used death threats, they became an oppressive, authoritarian group using terroristic tactics.
So what about the US Gov vs WL? You know, where they said that they had to kidnap (arrest) all the people and try them for treason (when not a USA citizen) and that Julian Asange should be executed are things that responsible governments don't do in situations like this.
How about Saddam? They actually killed him. Not just threatened. Killed. For torturing people and killing civilians. Later, the USA is torturing at abu graib and killing civilians in Iraq.
Tell that to Anonymous in Egypt.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
The gall of a company who just got caught planning a massive campaign of harassment and dirty tricks whining about people potentially harassing them is amazing.
You mean the FBI that keeps being proven to have just plain MADE SHIT UP to go after people?
If *real* fascists ever took control in this country, most of these people would shit themselves on a continuous basis before the secret police killed them, their families, their pets, burned down their houses and killed a few others standing around just to send a message.
Which is why attempting to foil incremental steps in that direction, before they reach fruition, is sort of a good idea, no?
Yes, but there is the whole "boy who cried wolf" aspect to constantly calling everything you don't like "fascism." Not everything presages the immanent collapse of American civilization. And the AC has a good point about people's cartoonish perception of good and evil.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Protesting is one thing but wanton destruction of property is another
Do you want to see how much property was "destroyed"? Look here
That's it, what they call "vandalism" was a piece of paper with something written. If someone could prove they are "Anonymous" they would have grounds to sue HBGary for libel.
Who would believe anything he says?
You might want to consider the possibility of actively working in the opposite direction. The main reason modern "democracies" don't have crushing authoritarian regimes is because the people are such sheep that force isn't necessary. Just give them McDonalds and TV (the modern bread and circuses), and they will take whatever the elites want to dish out.
So Anonymous is kind of like Earth First folks. Loosely organized, with sociopathic tendencies.
Except instead of burning down construction sites and SUVs, they crash websites and break into systems.
They both apparently make death threats.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I can't comment on what kind of snobs HBGary folks are, but the actions of Anonymous seem quite hypocritical to me in general. So "Anonymous" fights for wikileaks, which is expressly set up for the purpose of sharing secrets and revealing things. Then I read about how someone tried to expose who various members of Anonymous were, after which Anonymous got all upset and attacked him for doing the very things that wikileaks does, which they work to support. Seems like they value secrecy above everything else, kind of like the people that feel the most threatened by wikileaks. Ironic.
You mean the FBI that keeps being proven to have just plain MADE SHIT UP to go after people?
I don't think you understand the whole poking a bear concept. Your response is akin to saying "You mean the same bear that ripped a dude's arm off and ate it for NO REASON?!?" Yes kind sir, that is indeed the bear you should think twice before poking.
I just have this feeling that there are folks out there cheering for the bad guys here just because Barr is a jerk
My impression from all this is that HBGary were incompetent and as a Government contractor, they should be investigated for fraud. Selling their services as a Government security firm only to be broken into with SQL injections and rainbow tables?!?
Plah- ease!
bleh and bleh.
we are not excusing ourselves as people, and not doing anything that the current law would shun as criminal, but those people whom you speak about are doing all the inexcusable criminal acts as government contractors, and getting away with it. this ranges from torture to censorship.
no. there is a certain point of assness at which things can be excused.
Read radical news here
Your post is confusing, you seem to imply that you couldn't care less, yet you say you could. Exactly how much less could you care?
What happened when Assange started releasing diplomatic cables? Oh, that's right: he received public death threats from US officials. What happens when an individual starts complaining about a corporation, or about scientology? Oh, that's right: they get bullied by a team of lawyers that cost more per hour than the individual makes in a month.
I don't support making death threats or using baser harassment to get a point across, but the only thing newsworthy about the tactics of Anonymous is that now it's regular citizens making the threats and engaging in bullying tactics instead of governments and corporations. If governments and corporations only respect the law when they aren't the ones in power anymore, fuck'em.
You are still in Fox mode, trying to see the conspiracy behind events because your mind cannot grasp that shit just happens.
Anonymous has no organization, it cannot by its very nature. Some people who HAVE grouped together have used the name for themselves BUT by that they have seized to become Anonymous.
Is it really that hard to grasp? Just because you know the identity of ONE A. Nonymous author doesn't mean that every other book written under that name is linked to it in anyway. Anonymous, the concept to give a mystic to the random actions of people that sometimes seem to work together and groups calling themselves anonymous are NOT the same thing.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Oh, for the love of... you just have ONE fucking successful social uprising — just ONE, ONE SINGLE ONE — that you can assign SOME PARTIAL credit to the internet for, and every goddamned group of vandals, bullies, and trolls are suddenly a bunch of infallible FREEDOM(tm) FIGHTERS OF FREEDOM(tm) AND FREE(tm) FREENESS(tm).
Grow the fuck up. We'll all be here laughing when the mob's power trip keeps going and they decide you're doing something they don't like. Or have a name that sounds similar to someone doing something they don't like.
It's people like you who make me think Mikey Kristopeit might have a point about Slashdot's readerbase going downhill.
me knowing what my government is doing with my money : good.
...............
anyone trying to prevent me from knowing what my government is doing with my money, for ANY reason : evil
anyone helping me know what my government is doing : good.
anyone defending those who are helping me know what my government is doing : good.
at our time and age, with the point our societal corruption has hit, unfortunately things are as black & white as this.
and talking about fascism and lack of freedom - dont worry. fascists already have taken over your country long ago - you are just being repressed willingly, living only in proportion to your material wealth, while the rich has cornered the economy before you and controlling you through their bigger wealth, and you think that as freedom. you have nothing to fear - you are already willingly participating in what you fear.
Read radical news here
Anybody who thinks Anonymous is doing shit to protect their freedoms is delusional. Their attack on HBGary has done exactly zero for the efforts to protect the rights of the US citizenry. In fact, the only thing it has done is proven they are childish attention whores who have no regard for what is actually right or wrong. They just want to break shit. Not that HBGary shouldn't be humiliated because they should. All the security breaches were the result of blatant stupidity and hubris.
Humiliating a corporation is not "poking the bear". The FBI may or may not be interested in persuing this. This sort of problem is why there the likes of the RIAA and MPAA are running amok in the civil courts.
Sometimes, the G-Men just don't care. It's not glamorous enough or whatever.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I don't want to spoil your wet dreams about government efficiency, but... NSA, DOD, CIA, FBI... on that list we have exactly 1 organization with experience in war. And exactly 1 organization that knows what "cyber-war" actually is. The CIA doesn't operate inside the USA, and the FBI is a glorified local police station. They have better resources, but they are still just cops.
So that leaves a serious threat from the DOD, which likely doesn't even know what Anon is, or much care, since there are real threats out there. And the NSA, whom, I can only assume, has better things to do than pursue a bunch of petty criminals over some flame war between a forum and a wanna be contractor. That leaves us back with the FBI being the only actual threatening agency, and while certainly an efficient law enforcement agency, they are far from prepared to fight this kind of war.
Now about that word... war. I don't think it means what you think it means. Because I can promise you, if Anon went to WAR, there would be home made bombs going off and infrastructure going down, and generally something approaching mayhem in the streets. Or... at least that would be the goal, the most likely reality is 1 or 2 bombs go off, a couple power grids go dark and pages and pages of /b/ get filled with images cropped from Fight Club.
In any case, the outcome here is the same as it has always been. A couple of dumb asses are going to take all the heat. 50% will martyr themselves, the other 50% will cry for their mommies. 5% random chance that any "caught" individual commits suicide. (1% chance that it will be live broadcast). The FBI and any one else working on this will hold up a couple of arrests as proof they found the leadership (ahahahahaha) and it will all fade away into the 24 hour news cycle.
Our legal system is woefully unable to deal with groups like Anon. We failed with the mafia. We failed with the next mafia (we call them corporations), and we will fail with "new age..." wait " NuAge" groups like Anon. Anon is worse than the rest, because there really isn't any leadership to speak of. You can't cut the head off (not that we've been terribly good at that sort of thing anyway).
Do you think that the acquisition of documentary evidence(that would never otherwise have come to light) of the sort of dirty-tricks tactics used by entities like the "Chamber of Commerce" is actually of zero value? Or the revelation that comparatively well respected US contractors would be putting out proposals to do the hatchet work?
I have no wish to claim that every member of anonymous(to the degree that there are "members") is some sort of heroic altruist. I strongly suspect that many of them are just pranksters, vandals, or dumb kids. Similarly, I would be wholly unsurprised to discover that Assuage is a creepy attention whore with serious grandiosity issues.
However, judgement-by-personality is only relevant for people I have to deal with personally. In this realm, I only care about results. I care what they are doing, not why they are doing it.
Which sounds all nice and fine. Unless you start really looking at where the lines of "good" and "evil" are drawn and who's drawing them. I'm wary of anyone who wants to put the signs of "good" and "evil" above any of these actors.
Yep and they don't get it. You should see the post that anon if they went to war would start blowing up stuff and taking out infrastructure. They fans live in a fantasy world.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
... given, that they find the light switch.
...is wrong with editors here?
Having a sign put on your booth is not being 'attacked', you goddamn fucktards. Nor is it a 'threat'. I know the article claims that,but it's clearly insane nonsense.
What the fuck is wrong with you, CmdrTaco? Why are you repeating lies?
And what is wrong with the people who here repeat the 'vandalism' claim without actually look at what was done? Laying a poster on top of someone else's table is not even legally vandalism, and that's a crime with a pretty low bar.
Perhaps, you know, we shouldn't be repeating claims that HGBGray makes, an organization that has been demonstrated they will lie about people they are paid to lie about.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Allegedly Attacked By Anonymous, HBGary Pulls Out of RSA
Fixed that for you.
Mess with the bull..... You wanted it now you have it. If you don't have the courage of your own convictions (Which these guys don't) then shut your mouth.
Hi. You're going to call off your rigorous investigation. You're going to publicly state that there is no underground group. Or... these guys are going to take your balls. They're going to send one to the New York Times, one to the LA Times press-release style. Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not... fuck with us.
I'll put it a little less retardedly: Being as asshole isn't a crime, but it should be. And since the government/police can't do anything about it, it's always nice when someone else who can steps in.
It's how the world works, and it how the world *should* work. You're an asshole in a bar? Someone kicks your ass. You drive/park like an asshole? Someone keys your car or slashes your tires. Actions have consequences. Most of us learn that at a very young age, and therefore don't give in to our asshole urges. Then there are assholes like Aaron Barr, who desperately need a refresher course every now and then.
Unfortunately for him, he didn't just get his ass kicked or get his car fucked with. But kudos to Anon for putting an asshole in his place.
The CIA doesn't operate inside the USA...
Hahahahaha!!!!
But because he was ashamed. Think about going to hold a security talk, pretending to be an expert, while your company has just been rooted by the powers you claim to dominate.
This is just spin. He didn't do the presentation out of shame.
So you believe the ends justify the means? Interesting...
What about the fact that the release of the user registration database from rootkit.com was completely uncalled for. What exactly did that action accomplish? Jack shit. Their actions tell you they will betray your trust. They have absolutely no restraint or discipline. If you're really interested in protecting liberty, you will need moral restraint.
That's to say nothing of the idea that MasterCard et al. should have been attacked for not doing business with Wikileaks. That action right there is proof Anonymous does not actually believe in liberty. MasterCard is well within their rights to do business with who ever they damn well please. What's that? You don't like that? Tough shit, if you want liberty, those are the breaks.
Anonymous doesn't even understand their own philosophy enough to not be hypocrites.
I never thought my heroes would be fat kids with Cheeto fingers
Wikileaks, as you mentioned, works to reveal secrets. As a part of that work they also have to keep some secrets however, for example about their sources.
This is not the great paradox you make it out to be.
There is a difference between trying to reveal crimes/unethical behavior/corrupt and all that stuff, and to reveal personal information just out of spite or to harm someone. Not all secrets are bad, but those that are must be exposed.
Actually I'd like to call upon my betters at math, because I'm getting the sense that there are relations to set theory, game theory, etc. Places to look:
How do you know someone is in Anonymous? *How do you prove you are not?*
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Toss em in jail and forget about em. See how "anonymous" they are when they are all sitting in PMITA prison.
Totally agree - what does this guy think that everything is flowers and puppies and then one day all at once the fascism starts?
No, it happpens incrementally, just as it is happening here, just as it happened in the Weimar Republic transition to fascist Germany, just as it happened in Italy and Spain, (though in addition to economic crisises there was post war faction/partisan street violence at times which helped stoke a lot of public fear and a desire for strength and stability in government) - now days we have the ever present "terrorism," fear mongering, economic crisises, war, government corruption etc - we are still headed down the same path.
Hitler made gradual changes early on, and there were a lot of people worried and criticizing him, explaining where the country was headed. They were derided by national socialist press and others as being alarmist - guess where they ended up shortly there after? Among the first to be put in camps. As is oft quoted, Everything Hitler did was legal - he made it that way.
Sorry, enlightened societies do not condone nor encourage vigilantism. You can't argue for government oversight and then turn around and argue for a system with no means of oversight.
Apparently, with today's abysmal science (or even critical thinking) teaching, it's quite common to sell magic beans to teh gubbemint.
Why should the cybersecurity market be any different?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT200
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadro_Tracker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniffex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_6
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
To complete your analogy, bears like that get hunted and put down. I do not and will not advocate violence against the FBI, but the flip side of the coin of systemic, possibly criminal negligence in an agency empowered to enforce federal laws is not roll over and ignore it. That sort of cowardice will only encourage worse behavior from an organization that is supposed to be working for and accountable to the public.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
All of them tools. Both sides. The attackers are terrorists. The parallels to Islam and Islamic terrorists are striking. In /. you have Islam as a whole and you have Islamic terrorists in the attackers. You may champion the terrorists now but you do not control them so be careful of what you wish.
Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
Barr is a fool. Don't poke the bear .. especially if the bear is smarter and more legit than you.
It really amazes me how we've survived as a species if this many people have trouble with the whole "don't poke the bear" concept. What you say is true, if you decide a bear needs to be dealt with you go hunt it with a gun. But can you guess what you DON'T walk up and do to it first? ;) But I jest, I think we're on the same page here.
But in this case the guys with the guns are the FBI, CIA, NSA, and DOD.
Maybe in this case we should say that bar shouldn't poke the hunting party.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
ha ha ha. Anon the people that couldn't take down Amazon? They are a bunch of script kiddies people.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Want to mess with the NSA, DOD, CIA, and FBI? People talk about when dealing with Anonymous that you shouldn't "poke the bear".
yeah well, I'm certainly not downloading and running any DDoS tools, unless Windows XP or 7 says so... I have a couple 'doze machines on my network still. All with DEP but that's kleenex.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Mess with the best, die like the rest!
Yes, but there is the whole "boy who cried wolf" aspect to constantly calling everything you don't like "fascism." Not everything presages the immanent collapse of American civilization. And the AC has a good point about people's cartoonish perception of good and evil.
Most of us don't have the tinfoil wrapped so tight as to worry about the immanent collapse of civilization but are nonetheless indeed worried about the downhill slide. Nothing new, America (and every other country, we aren't unique) has had runs of demagoguery throughout history. The proper reaction to that, IMHO, is to keep up the drumbeat and constantly point it out. Yes, it raises the volume but the very real danger of letting a civil society lapse into various levels of barbary is simply to great to ignore. You are of course, allowed to put on your goggles and just watch Disney, some of the rest of us are more than a little worried.
The black and white description of good and evil is something that has been a constant theme with humans since before Greek tragedies. I don't understand why many people want it to be such a diametric opposite since in the real world it is much more nuanced, but there you have it. It does serve to frame the argument and makes lovely sound bites. Hopefully enough people realize that it's a fiction, good for comic books, not so applicable to the real world.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
I can't wait for the security video to be released and show a Guy Fawkes mask placing that sign.
I don't really see too much wrong with what Anonymous did...
HBGary (regardless if they are assholes) hit them first by "hacking" and threatening to release personal information (for money) about various members. Anonymous hit back. HBGary were trying to bully them and I can't stand bullies.
They're being manipulated, used as useful idiots.
Hoodoos. (they)Thought the matrix was full of mambos 'n' shit. Wanna know something, Moll?
What?
They're right.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Doesn't anyone think anonymous should get an anonymous medal of freedom for exposing a now obviously fraudulent company and potentially saving some taxpayer funds. It's not like any of those other bozos that got it yesterday deserved it any more than the people who exposed this potential fraud.
the Democratic Process - if the mob is organized enough to change the law to reflect its beliefs.
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
The difference is that HBGary tried to dox random people. They dug up some names they believed to be "members" of Anonymous and then tried to gain the FBI's attention which they knew were on a crusade against Anonymous. And considering previous cases chances are the life of the people named by HBGary would have become quite miserable. BTW: Anonymous does not care much about consistency or reputation or what slashdotters might think of them.
On se Internetz nobody noes your German.
Oh please. Wikileaks stepped off the high-horse of nobility when they started wielding their information as a weapon regardless of it's relevance. So yeah, it's war. But when you start talking about going after them, suddenly it's not war. It's conspiracy. You can't have it both ways. Anonymous exist due to vast numbers of minions and the anonymity of it's core. But in the grand scheme of things are they any better than terrorists with masks over their faces? I realize the ends-justify-the-means is popular among youth and geekdom, in some cases but there are costs. That said, while I may applaud some of what they do (Wikileaks and Anon) I'm not going to lower myself to the blind, juvenile stupidity of thinking everything they do is good. Neither are without serious flaws and Assange is no messiah. There seems to be no one willing to point out bad that may very well exist in the so-called good. For the acts that are illegal and clearly a violation of other's rights, both Wikileaks and Anonymous should be tried. For what good they may do, I have no problem giving a hats off.
There is a bit of middle ground between "American society is on the verge of collapse" and "put on your goggles and just watch Disney," but, you know, thanks for assuming that I must be some sort of human-sheep hybrid because I am trying to inject a little rationality into a conversation that started with the laughably over-the-top phrase "It's an all-out war between the forces of good and evil that has never stopped and will never stop."
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Security_Administration
Given this guy's 'tude and behavior, I'm gonna need real proof of said threats before I believe them. Anything less is just a Kabuki dance to drum up even more raids by the Federales.
3. The government and their handmaidens no longer believes in, or acts according to, the Rule of Law.
Anonymous should have called themselves"I'm Spartacus"... maybe then these old farts would understand what's going on.
It's amazing how dangerous thumb tacks and sharpie markers are.
Actually I'd like to call upon my betters at math, because I'm getting the sense that there are relations to set theory, game theory, etc. Places to look: How do you know someone is in Anonymous? *How do you prove you are not?*
You dont
but you are
That is the nature of anonymous
it is everyone and no one
>>Yes, but there is the whole "boy who cried wolf" aspect to constantly calling everything you don't like "fascism."
Seriously. Some ravers I knew got together to sue to the police for shutting down one of their parties, crying the whole time about fascism.
If we were living in an actual fascist society that move would have been... unproductive.
People use the word "fascist" to mean, "Anything relating to authority that I don't like."
That is why anonymous should be behind bars and so should anyone from Themis who has broken the law as proposed in this document.
the attacks proposed were against wikileaks, not just anonymous. There is no evidence wikileaks has broken us law. So this is not even vigilantism, it is a criminal attack.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Crassus simply had all of them crucified along the road back to Rome.
If I'd seen the lulz image before posting I would've laughed the vandalism charge right out of the court of public opinion instead of using it as an example of something that's not okay to do.
However, assuming the death threats were real they were way over the top.
Making fun of someone's idiotic actions with the intent of deservedly killing their reputation, that's what rhetoric is for.
Actually threatening someone's physical well-being, NOT okay in a case like this.
Oh, as for the remark about the British and 200 years ago: If your government is so corrupt that it's unjust and the normal means of petitioning and peaceful protest don't work, then holding a revolution may be the morally okay or even required thing to do. That's what happened in the mid/late 1770s in America and a recently in Cairo.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
By the same logic, Assange is being hippocritical by not jumping on a plane to sweden/USA.
Organisation doesn't necessarily mean top-down organisation.
Anonymous is definitely organised, but along anarchist lines rather than a traditional hierarchy.
Don't worry, you'll get it eventually ;-)
Anonymous are the bored teenagers, twenty-somethings, and misanthropes of the Internet. They aren't "responsible protesters", individuals just do whatever they like because they feel like it. The core ideal of the "movement" is "do it for the lulz".
Which is why most events associated with "Anonymous" is full of racism, homophobia, child porn, etc. "Anonymous" will do pretty much anything to get a laugh. Telling them to act responsible will just cause some of them to go and act even more irresponsibly to annoy you.
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CINC, 4th Penguin Legion
He could, but it wouldn't be worth the effort.
And what is good, Phaedrus, And what is not good... Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
Seriously, what about their competitors exhibiting at the show. Have one of your salesman make the sign up and slip on their booth and make them look like fools once again, might as well kick them while their down. Seems like the people with both motive and opportunity. Plus the consequences of being caught are pretty low, if someone saw your guy placing the sign he just says "so what, it was a joke, I didn't make a threat, we are just joking around with a competitor". And he is right, the sign is in no way a threat.
It was the threat of embarrassment that kept them away from the conference.
If you're with Anonymous, you only regain your identity upon death or capture.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
You might want to get you reading comprehension checked. I said that Motives (not Means) are of no interest.
Results are of interest, as are means; but motives are irrelevant drivel that I leave to the hypothetical biographers.
As it happens, I find Anonymous' results to be largely positive. Their means are more mixed(as is not especially surprising in an "organization" that anybody can claim, at any time, to be acting in the name of); but I think that they've been quite useful and comparatively restrained. Not saints, certainly, but their collateral damage levels aren't exactly keeping me up at night.
kinda like calling everything you dont like "terrorism" ??
script kiddies capable of learning - fast.
pretty much every resistance movement *started* with misteps and 'amateur' methods,
then they develop into the level of skill and efficiency required for their particular mission.
resistance movement... Gang of thugs. Historically the resistance movements often tend to be as bad or worse than the government they replace. Not all mind you but a lot of them.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
So now they are vandalizing actual property. This guy is still a dick, Anonymous has now ceased to be a cyber-terrorist organization and turned into a real life one.
Go Anonymous!!! Now if only you were all armed and we could find out who REALLY shot JFK (from the front, and not through a tree from behind with an antiquated rifle).
This is democracy in action. I hope we can someday eliminate the corporate slavery our corrupt politicians and media have inflicted on this country.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Actually, my reading comprehension is far and away beyond yours. You are implicitly authorizing unacceptable means because you only care about the results.
In this realm, I only care about results.
Your words. You only care about results. That means you don't care about how those results are produced. "The ends justify the means." actually means you only care about the results. I would suggest you brush up on your reading and language skills.
And I have yet to see the positive results of them acting like children. They have absolutely zero concern for justice, just their own selfish desires.
That depends on whether your actions in supposedly foiling the fascists instead make people pine for the security and comfort that a fascist state might provide.
Consider Ronald Reagan. It has been pretty plainly laid out that the man who is now the Golden Calf of Conservatism was a New Deal liberal democrat (by his own admission) who was so offended by the actions of the people that supposedly held the same beliefs he did that he found himself doing a complete about-face. Whether or not you think that reflects well on him as a person, you can't ignore the fact that many, many other people may feel the same way.
Just because you say that you are fighting fascists, or even mean to be fighting fascists deep in your heart, does not mean that your actions won't put the fascists in power. If anything, doing stuff like that and mentioning the fascists tends to have the effect of reminding people that the fascists are an option.
Anonymous is not a group or organization, its barely a movement. It's a name that people have used to rally to because it represents the state that enables them to act: anonymity. Its sort of like the Anarchists who were carrying out the Propaganda of the Deed activities by blowing up things in the early 20th Century. They were unorganized individuals who acted independently blowing up reactionary aristocrats and plutocrats, but all they succeeded in doing was frightening the populace, scaring moderate leaders into becoming reactionary tyrants, and of course, provided a convenient excuse for starting World War I.
Consider other huge, faceless movements and the uses they have been put to in the past. The Red Scare comes to mind. Its easy to blame the Red Menace for everything. The only thing that even checked that tendency even a little bit was that Communists had a particular theory and goal. They had a base that could be guarded against (the Soviet Union). They were actual people who could be engaged in conversations and questioned to get their actual opinions, even if you started off by assuming that they were nefarious evil-doers.
Without organization, you don't even need agent provocateurs to infiltrate Anonymous, you just construct an outrageous act and say Anonymous did it. And Anonymous DID do it, because even Joe Fascist is Anonymous if he wants to be, right?
SQL injections and rainbow tables
unfortunately the truth of this statement will be entirely missed by the greater public.
The greater public probably think SQL injections and rainbow tables are some bizarre gay fetish activity.
Is that why the Wikipedia entry on "SQL Injection" is blank as of right now? It says last modified on 15 February 2011. Hmm. The page just looks blank in Firefox—View Source shows the text. I brought up IE, and the text is all there. Except...was SQL injection really "First discovered by hippies from Las Cruces, New Mexico."?
This is all very interesting, of course. Competitive urination between somebody I don't know and an unknown number of people I don't know. I don't dare say more than that; who knows what Anonymous would do to me if I did?
Dr. Vomact's true name is Hilda Bergenbanger, she lives at 1055 Matheson Road, Columbus Georgia. Call her at 706-433-6969 for a really good time at a very modest cost.
Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
That is what is the cause of the whole Anonymous thing IMNSHO. If these kids had been instilled with the belt from time to time I doubt we would be talking about them.
desu desu desu desu
Who the hell is HBGary, why should I care, and what did he do to "piss off" "anonymous?"
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...