First Alpha of Qt For Android Released

An anonymous reader writes "In the wake of Nokia's announcement that it will be cheerfully throwing its existing developer community under a bus by not offering Qt for Windows Phone, a project to implement Qt on Android has announced its initial alpha release. Necessitas project lead Bogdan Vatra writes, 'I had a dream that one day, I'll be able to deploy existing Qt software on any Android platform. I had a dream that one day, all Qt applications will use system wide shared Qt libraries. I had a dream that one day, all Qt applications once compiled and deployed to one android platform, will run on any other newer android platform and will last for years without any recompilation. I had a dream that one day, I'll be able to create, manage, compile debug and deploy Qt apps using a first class citizen IDE. Now, those dreams become reality.' The Necessitas wiki offers some documentation on Qt for Android. A demo video of Qt for Android in action is also available."

Comments

It's too small

[Anonymous Coward]

QT isn't big enough to compete. The other juggernauts have the momentum and QT will fail. it is not because it is a bad technology - it just doesn't have the traction.

Re:It's too small

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

With Nokia becoming an MS hardware OEM, QT isn't going to be the default, native, library set for any platform with notable share; but I see it cropping up(subtly, you usually have to take a look at the stuff an installer does to notice it) in all sorts of cross-platform commercial software with quite broad distribution. Then you have KDE, which is a fairly heavy QT user, albeit not one with a huge install base.

I'd say that the odds of world domination look slim; but I don't see why QT couldn't continue doing what it did before the Nokia acquisition(even if Nokia has no further interest, they paid good money for Trolltech, so they'd be stupid to destroy them internally, rather than spin them off again and take what they can get...)

Re:It's too small

[Anthony Mouse]

QT isn't big enough to compete. The other juggernauts have the momentum and QT will fail. it is not because it is a bad technology - it just doesn't have the traction.

It's a framework, not a platform. Whether or not anybody else uses it is totally irrelevant to whether you can write an app with it and have it run on any Android phone. Or anything else they port the library to.

And if it works well and allows you to easily write portable software then plenty of people will use it, because there is no barrier (and significant advantages) to being an early adopter.

Re:It's too small

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it seems to me that in order to compete you need apps and visibility. KDE and Nokia do provide the visibility but the apps will only come if there is an ROI on the part of developers. If deelopers are going to spend the time and effort making the app then there needs to be demand for this platform.

Re:It's too small

[symbolset]

There's something non-stupid about this entire evolution to you? Do share.

Re:It's too small

[Luckyo]

I'd say that the odds of world domination look slim; but I don't see why QT couldn't continue doing what it did before the Nokia acquisition(even if Nokia has no further interest, they paid good money for Trolltech, so they'd be stupid to destroy them internally, rather than spin them off again and take what they can get...)

Nokia (or more specifically the MS guy who got into CEO position) essentially threw its entire 5 year "linux phone" development under the bus. Trolltech purchase is pennies in comparison.

Re:It's too small

[Anthony Mouse]

Nokia (or more specifically the MS guy who got into CEO position) essentially threw its entire 5 year "linux phone" development under the bus. Trolltech purchase is pennies in comparison.

The funny thing is they spent all the money on Meego, which still exists, and now they aren't using it. But now some other company, maybe one with a strong Intel partnership, can come along, scoop it up and run with it if they decide their existing OS is dying a slow death. Especially if the existing OS is already Linux-based and they could reuse some of their existing code. (Hello HP?)

Re:It's too small

[hairyfeet]

Do you HONESTLY believe Meego had a snowball's chance in hell? Really? Because you might want to go to Endgadget and read their actual hands on review and not just the fawning press releases. There you will find lovely quotes such as "not even alpha quality", "Under the top shine there is nothing substantial" "Very little functionality" and "would need at least a year to be where the others are now" which of course by then would be even farther behind as nobody else will be standing still.

It is pretty sad that /. has become Boycott Novell with all the "ZOMG M$!" so thick that people would completely ignore reality just to throw in another M$ conspiracy. Do you think they hired a new CEO just because it was Tuesday? The facts are thus: Nokia is bleeding share like there is no tomorrow, dumbphones are going the way of 8-tracks and that was the only market Nokia had real share in, their smartphone OS was frankly a joke compared to iOS, and they simply didn't have the luxury to throw another year at development of yet another Linux based OS that may or may not sell.

Now considering if they would have went Android all they would have gotten is a thank you letter from Brin and Page while leaping into a market that is already beyond saturated, both HP and Apple won't sell them WebOS and iOS respectfully, and MSFT was willing to shell out billions to make Nokia the hardware arm for WinPhone 7. Considering their choices you'd have to be a Boycott Novell level of "ZOMG M$! ZOMG!!" conspiracy theorist to honestly think they had another option here. What did you expect them to do, just close up shop and return the money to the shareholders?

I'm sure there are those here that would honestly rather see a company close down and thousands go out of work rather than seeing MSFT get anything, but those of us that can just look at the numbers without being blinded by nerd rage can see the writing on the wall: They had no real smartphone presence, their OS they did have was seriously behind and would take time they didn't have to catch up, and the only other OS they could get their hands on is so over saturated you'd have to be nuts to want to use it ATM. They made the best call with what they had to work with, and only time will tell if it was a good one or not, but I fail to see how they had much of a choice here. It wasn't like the company was all hearts and flowers before the big bad MSFT came along.

Re:It's too small

[DrXym]

QT isn't big enough to compete. The other juggernauts have the momentum and QT will fail. it is not because it is a bad technology - it just doesn't have the traction.

I think QT has a place on Android. Think of all those useful Linux apps you'd like to see on your tablet for example. Then there are apps migrating from Nokia's platform which could find it useful.

What I would like to see on Android is a proper alternative to the Dalvik framework. There is the NDK but it would be nice to see a proper LLVM like environment where you can write C++ code but it is turned to an intermediate bitcode and isn't tied to one platform or architecture.

Re:It's too small

[AlXtreme]

But now some other company, maybe one with a strong Intel partnership, can come along, scoop it up and run with it if they decide their existing OS is dying a slow death.

Except that they also could simply go with Android and let Google do most of the heavy lifting. Why go with Meego when you can get a supported and actively developed OS instead?

Every now and then someone rants about division between desktop Linux distributions being the cause of lack of adoption. In mobile Linux "distributions" there is one large player and porting to and from the various alternatives is much more complex.

Perhaps it's just better in the long run to rally around Android and do our best to make it as open as possible, Meego doesn't look like it's going anywhere. And I'm saying this as a happy N900/Maemo user.

Re:It's too small

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

Anyone else notice that the youtube demo video has been taken down for "violation of youtube's policy on nudity of sexual content" ?

Or is it just me ? Mirror, anyone ?

Re:It's too small

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

But MeeGo is intel's 100th attempt to get some embedded OS (or distro) like this off the ground. Everyone always abandons the platform, before it gets very far. Always. Always the same reason : intel's chips just aren't cost-competitive for small electronics, and intel (understandably) refuses to develop for anything else.

But for example OMAP3530 can play quite complex games, maybe even better ones than intel's power-efficient atoms with the built-in chipset and are a third of the cost per chip, and at least equally efficient.

The sad fact is that this is despite the obvious intel advantages : their fab facilities are second to none, not in quantity, nor in quality. Logic would seem to indicate that therefore their chips should be the cheapest, but they never seem to be.

The only reason anyone buys intel chips (other than their really cool SSD disks) seems to be that windows refuses to run on anything else, and therefore one only finds intel chips in (cost-efficient) server hardware.

Re:It's too small

[MareLooke]

Yes, it's down for me with that message as well. Guess QT is hawt stuff...

Re:It's too small

[Anthony Mouse]

Except that they also could simply go with Android and let Google do most of the heavy lifting.

Sure, but isn't that why Nokia didn't? They didn't want to be one of a thousand other Android distributors?

Although it does bring an interesting point: Android is Linux too. Can anybody just mix and match code from Android and Meego and make something that e.g. runs Android apps and has the good bits from Meego, or is there some kind of licensing mess?

Re:It's too small

[Luckyo]

Would've been an interesting set of points, if you didn't invoke end"foxnews looks professional compared to us when we talk about nokia"gadget.

They still have the article where they compared N8's camera to the slap on-crap that IP4 has and concluded that IP4 camera is better. They even sited their own pics which showed autumn London blooming with colors like beach in Bahamas on massively overprossed IP4's camera (which when you actually delve into the pics is done to hide the atrocious general detail quality even for 5mp camera) and conclude that IP4 is better.

Just because the other phone has five magical letters on it. And I'm not talking about apple.

Re:It's too small

[Luckyo]

Iirc (correct me if I'm wrong) but most of the android applications aren't linux applications. They're java that runs on a virtual machine. Linux is just the underlying embedded OS that runs the VM. That being one of the biggest reasons for remarkably horrible energy efficiency of the OS.

Maemo/Meego on the other hand is an actual linux on a phone. It runs native linux software by default, rather then through a virtual machine.

There is however the fact that people got android working on n900, and maemo/meego working on some of android phones, so they should be interchangeable to a point hardware-wise.

Re:It's too small

[Anthony Mouse]

Right, so what I'm saying is, take the Linux kernel with whatever drivers someone has written for your device, and then install the Android VM and whatever else is required to get Android apps working on Maemo/MeeGo. Then you have a "Linux phone" which runs Android apps and any other part of Android you like, but can also run native apps and for that matter the whole GNU userland. Without really writing a huge amount of new code.

Getting the UI to be seamless would obviously take some work, but at first you could just do something like have an Android button in MeeGo that switches to the Android UI and vice versa.

Re:It's too small

[Daniel Phillips]

I think QT has a place on Android. Think of all those useful Linux apps you'd like to see on your tablet for example.

Not to mention a UI without the CPU overhead of Java bytecode interpretting or Jitting. Incidentally, there is really only one target architecture for smart phones these days: ARM, with pretty much identical instruction sets. Hardware differences appear mostly at the chipset level, in other words, this is the concern of libraries not the compiler.

Re:It's too small

[hairyfeet]

I brought up Engadget simply because they are one of the few that actually got a hands on instead of simply regurgitating the press releases. but I'm sure there are others that got a hands on, feel free to look them up as well. What you will find is the same thing that I found when looking up MeeGo, which was an Intel making excuses and saying "it'll be better in the future, promise" while showing code that frankly didn't work as well as Android 1.5 on CCC (Cheapo Chinese Crap) which simply won't cut it when faced with WebOS and WinPhone 7, much less the juggernaut that is iOS.

So please, look it up yourself. If you look at actual reviews and not just press releases you'll find the same thing I did, an OS that wasn't alpha quality and was nowhere near shipping ready. Since iOS and WebOS aren't for sale that left Nokia with Symbian, Android, or WinPhone 7. The Droid is beyond saturated, Symbian just wasn't up to the job of competing with whats out there which is why companies dropped it for Droid, so that just leaves WinPhone 7.

I just don't see how anybody looking at the data could conclude that Nokia had anywhere else to go. They simply don't have another year or two to coast on dumbphones while they sink money they can't afford into R&D for MeeGo in the hopes it'll shape up in time, and without a real product in the smartphone category they are bleeding share like there is no tomorrow. Despite the FUD being spread about 2012 at the earliest I'd lay my money on a Sept release of the first round of WinPhone 7, probably with a nice tie in and low bundle price for anyone that picks up an X360 with a Nokia WinPhone, since MSFT is spending big money to get Windows 7, X360, and WinPhone 7 to all play nice together.

When you look at the numbers Nokia just couldn't afford to stay the course as they don't have a practical monopoly to ride like Intel does. I think in the end the CEO will be given credit for making the best call he could with what he had to work with, especially if MeeGo isn't even at beta stage this time next year which from reviews is what they are looking at.

Re:It's too small

[Luckyo]

This phone already exists. It's called nokia n900. The main problem is weak and unoptimized hardware, so android applications won't run nearly as fast as they would have to be usable. But it already exists, and nokia has announced that n900 will have a meego successor coming out some time this year (along with similar lack of real support like n900, essentially ending up the same kind of a hacker's/programmer's phone).

So keep your fingers crossed that all the meego hate and Elop's actions haven't buried it enough to be bad on release.

Re:It's too small

[Luckyo]

They simply don't have another year or two to coast on dumbphones while they sink money they can't afford into R&D for MeeGo in the hopes it'll shape up in time, and without a real product in the smartphone category they are bleeding share like there is no tomorrow.

Actually, no. This is the image you get from endgadget and co. Reality is, even in last quarter their symbian sales grew. They didn't grow fast enough to keep market share on a market that's exploding, but they grew. And outside USA, specifically in markets that will matter in long term (BRIC + EU i.e. no crushing personal debt issues, no middle massively shrinking middle class), pretty much any measure shows that nokia phones are still occupy majority of top10 phones sold AND top10 phones used. By a large and wide margin. They're also reporting profits every quarter, which means that they're not even posting losses yet - and their last quarterly shows 10 billion in cash, which means that they could afford to take losses for a while - something that Elop clearly wants to capitalize on.

So yes, they could coast on their phones for at least two years more EASILY. So long as they just ignore the "rape the customer, make the phones for operator" US market. When Elop said that "microsoft phone will be the most operator friendly phone on the market", pretty much everyone who stuck with nokia because they liked their phones in spite of dated OS UI, knew that it was game over.

That is in process of killing nokia. Not the market share bleed, while still growing every quarter in both smartphone and dumbphone market globally.

Re:It's too small

[hairyfeet]

Actually if YOU have been looking at what is going on in the BRIC you'd see that homegrown companies are putting out smartphones for that market already which while not up to the level of a Droid or iOS phone is already head and shoulders above what Nokia is offering for dumbphones.

Like it or not there is a reason why everyone is calling for the death of the dumbphone, because like the VCR the time is simply up. Just as the VCR didn't disappear overnight when DVD showed up so too will the dumbphone not instantly disappear, but anyone actually investing money in that market would have to be insane. It is pretty clear that what the third world and second world like the BRIC is gonna do is simply skip the PC revolution completely and just go straight to mobile, since it gives the power of a connected world without the need for the power generation and infrastructure required for the traditional desktop.

Like it or not Symbian is over, it is an outdated OS that simply wasn't up to the task, no different than PalmOS which like Nokia would have done if followed your advice they would have hung onto until they simply had NO market anymore. All that money for R&D (which frankly would have been MASSIVE in the case of MeeGo because like it or not it simply isn't anywhere near iOS level of quality or integration) had to come from somewhere and the market for dumbphones is razor thin margins at best.

The simple fact is we already saw the strategy your are advocating from Palm and we all saw how well THAT turned out, didn't we? By the time they got WebOS ready for primetime they simply had no money for marketing or incentives and simply bled out. That is EXACTLY what would have happened to Nokia if they would have stayed the course, That left Symbian,Droid, and WinPhone. Now I'm sure even you would agree that pushing out yet more Droids in a market this flooded would have been suicide, and while Symbian had a few fans like WinMo 6.5 more hated it than loved it.

Frankly I just don't see how you are able to say that giving up the smartphone market for 2 years while trying to survive on a rapidly dying razor thin dumbphone market would have been a wise move. it was simply a path with more chances to fail than to succeed and by going with MSFT they get billions in marketing as well as access to MSFT's WinPhone engineers and the ability to tie their hardware to the X360 and Win 7 desktop, both of which are doing quite well and are already in millions of homes. It seems to me given the options available to them the MSFT one was the safest and least likely to leave the company DOA.

It was just a smart business move and time will tell if it gives them a win. I personally believe if MSFT makes tie in to the X360 and Win 7 smooth and seamless that while they won't unseat iOS they could take a solid second and if they manage to appeal to X360 owners may even give Google a run for their money. Anyway time will tell and personally the more choices I have the better.

Re:It's too small

[DrXym]

Dalkvik doesn't interpret Java bytecode. It's register based which makes it more analogous to a virtual CPU than a JVM. Performance isn't too bad with it and I really don't have any objection to virtualized instructions. I think however that there are apps where it is unreasonable to expect someone to port them to Java source. For example C++ apps, or even Objective C for that matter.

That said, I think it is retrograde to compile to any native instruction set, even ARM. There are differences between ARM chipsets (e.g thumb instructions), and who's to say it wouldn't make more sense to use MIPS or x86 or some other chipset some other day? LLVM exists precisely so devs don't have to care too much about the hardware, compilation can be deferred until the app is installed on a device. Ship the app as bitcode and only compile to native when the thing is installed or first executed. Android has recently introduced Renderscript which does support LLVM support but its being used in a way more analogous to CUDA / OpenCL than regular C++. I would like to see the LLVM extended to support regular C++ apps.

Re:It's too small

[Daniel Phillips]

Dalkvik doesn't interpret Java bytecode. It's register based which makes it more analogous to a virtual CPU than a JVM.

Bafflegab. Respectfully, please do not lecture me on interpreter design ;-)

Performance isn't too bad with it

Nonsense. There is no way you can make an interpreter of any description run at more than a fraction of the speed of native code. Note that conclusions derived from false premises are likely also to be false.

That said, I think it is retrograde to compile to any native instruction set, even ARM.

You may think that but the battery in your phone will disagree.

nips in the vid

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw nip at 1:15.

Re:nips in the vid

[jason.sweet]

We have learned 3 things today:

1. Qt developers like nips on their desktop.
2. Qt developers are overly dramatic.
3. Qt developer are very, very slow readers.

Re:nips in the vid

[Inner_Child]

I saw nip at 1:15.

Apparently so did someone else, the video was taken down.

Re:nips in the vid

[amRadioHed]

That explains the youtube link now saying "This video has been removed as a violation of YouTube's policy on nudity or sexual content.
Sorry about that."

Who knew Qt was so sexy?

Re:nips in the vid

[Anonymous Coward]

you're reading it wrong...

A demo video of Cutie on Android action is also available."

Re:nips in the vid

[froggymana]

First its qt, then its SCSI! :)

Re:nips in the vid

[Lord Byron II]

It's just a tasteful, nude background on his desktop. Nothing that should warrant a removal by YouTube, but it's their prudish prerogative.

For those of us who are adults and capable of seeing a female breast without going nuts, here's an alternate link to the video:

http://blip.tv/file/4790125

Re:nips in the vid

[Anonymous Coward]

Rather than not going nuts, we here in the U.S. should be praising the gods for every wonderful natural tit we see. Let the fake bewbs receive our scorn.

Re:nips in the vid

[snookiex]

Showing that background was pointless, and now all articles pointing to the YouTube video have a broken link. Well done, Bogdan.

Re:nips in the vid

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol.. it's not "tasteful". Why don't you ask a female what they would think of an organisation that showed demos with nipples?

Oh wait.. there are no females around here.

Re:nips in the vid

[SwedishPenguin]

What is up with the insane puritanical censorship from Google? A nipple? Come one, we get that regularly on public television and *noone* cares.

Re:nips in the vid

[rvw]

First its qt, then its SCSI! :)

SCSI has tits too?

Re:nips in the vid

[CODiNE]

Would you feel the same about a "tasteful, nude male background"?

Can you see a penis without "going nuts"?

Re:nips in the vid

[drinkypoo]

That depends, is there a ball bag in this hypothetical picture?

Is the penis gigantic, glowing, and blue?

More ontopic: When the Android NDK was announced, I knew something like this would happen eventually. I'm impressed that Qt was first.

Re:nips in the vid

[Anonymous Coward]

And my mother has TWO!

And, because I don't want to appear sexist, I'd like to point out, that my father has them as well.

No wonder this society is like this, when such characters are allowed to rise children.

Re:nips in the vid

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Although, the closest body part would be the male nipple, not the penis. There's nothing naturally arousing about the female breast other than our culturally conditioned worship of it. It doesn't even bring sex to mind until you learn to equate the two.

Re:nips in the vid

[rubycodez]

Wrong, even in cultures that go nude all the time the female form is "worshiped". Ancient carvings prove this. You're just not a connoisseur, maybe you're gay?

Re:nips in the vid

[rubycodez]

There are hundreds of millions of women in cultures that bare the breasts all the time, let's ask them

Re:nips in the vid

[amRadioHed]

Clearly you are not in America.

Re:nips in the vid

[Urkki]

Yes. Although, the closest body part would be the male nipple, not the penis. There's nothing naturally arousing about the female breast other than our culturally conditioned worship of it. It doesn't even bring sex to mind until you learn to equate the two.

Oh, there most certainly is something naturally arousing, as breasts are one big factor subconciously used by males to evaluate females ability to successfully raise children (not the only or the biggest factor, but one of the major ones). And even if modern sex doesn't often have anything to do with having offspring, sex drive is still mostly about that (not only about that, it's also about bonding inside the group a bit).

Multiple healthy offspring -> nutrition -> breast milk -> breasts <- producing offsping <- sex <- arousal <- visual inspection of potential mate

Long live Qt

[Anonymous Coward]

Long live Qt

A bit slow.

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it really take anyone over a minute to read the intro? Got bored, went away.

Re:A bit slow.

[nschubach]

I had a dream that one day someone would read about my dream. I had a dream that that someone would post on my story. I had a dream that someone would make fun of it. I had a dream that someone would respond to that in light humor. I had a dream that they would note that in the same post. Now, those dreams become reality.

Qt ecosystem...

[arunce]

So, how long will take google to trash the java stuff and absorb Qt as the primary toolkit/sdk ecosystem? With or without it how will they fight the Nokia patent pool brought in court by their puppet master?

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[fidget42]

Wouldn't this trash the existing application base?

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[arunce]

No. It will take years to deprecate. Said Qt as primary, all the rest something else.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's been said before, but just because Android's API is written in Java, does not mean you have to use Java for it. Likewise for C# and WinForms. Those two languages, Java and C#, like C++, are usually the least suited for GUI code - more expressive languages are much less aggravating for the task.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[Anthony Mouse]

With or without it how will they fight the Nokia patent pool brought in court by their puppet master?

Why go to court? If only three people use it then it's hardly worth the effort. And if everybody starts writing Android apps with Qt, great! Just do the about face and tell all those Qt developers they employ to make Qt run on WP7 and suddenly WP7 has all the Android apps. Which would benefit both Nokia and Android at the expense of iOS, because it allows developers to target both platforms at once.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[chammy]

Java and C#, like C++, are usually the least suited for GUI code - more expressive languages are much less aggravating for the task.

That's why they made Qt's QML

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[GigaplexNZ]

So, how long will take google to trash the java stuff...

Wouldn't this trash the existing application base?

No. It will take years to deprecate. Said Qt as primary, all the rest something else.

You did say trash, don't try to deny it ;)

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[epyT-R]

this attitude is probably why so many guis today are boated and slow as hell on microwave frequency clocked hardware. more 'expressive' and abstract languages tend to run in VMs and/or interpreters (which are often coded in c++ anyway) which makes the execution speed orders of magnitude slower than they need to be..

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[Anonymous Coward]

That will never happen, Google loves Java and Python (both are stupid choices if you ask me).

Qt is pretty damn bloated with gigantic libraries and long load times (symbol resolution), I'm interested to see how well it works on Android.

I have my doubts as to how well it can be integrated, some of the high level Android API's are Java only. Despite what other people in the thread are claiming. Yes, all the low level stuff is there in C libraries but most Android apps use the higher level Java API's so those would have to be rebuilt, adding even more bloat.

I do wish Android didn't use Java though. Something built on just plain C++ or even Google's own Go language would be much better performance-wise which would allow it to compete with the iPhone better (all those snazzy effects, etc).

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's impossible when GUI code is normally responsible for < 1% of the CPU overhead for your application. Common critical GUI routines like sorting huge lists reside alongside core logic, which is typically written in C/C++/C#/Java/asm.

I understand this mentality runs counter-intuitive for the faith-based programmers, who can't comprehend profiling their code and then rewriting it to be more efficient.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[arunce]

Yes. Google loves Java and guess who got in bed? Oracle.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[arunce]

No I don't. :)

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[Anonymous Coward]

So, how long will take google to trash the java stuff and absorb Qt as the primary toolkit/sdk ecosystem?

Why?

Qt and C++ were great in 1995. Last time I checked, it's not 1995 anymore. Any company that bets the farm on Qt and C++ as the future of their platform deserves to be taken over by a Microsoft executive in the middle of their a long slow slide into bankruptcy and irrelevance.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[Anonymous Coward]

Those two languages, Java and C#, like C++, are usually the least suited for GUI code - more expressive languages are much less aggravating for the task.

Ehmm. C++ is probably the best language for GUI code. That is if you want your GUI to be responsive. Java and C# are poor choices by being half-way scripting languages, and all scripting languages are poor choices because they have unpredictable performance characteristica. The only advantage of scripting languages is that they can be used by morons, but I am always uncomfortable using programs written by morons.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[m50d]

Which is useful but too limited for many nice GUIs. Using PyQt is hands down the best GUI writing experience I've ever had - it has all the power of the C++ version, but less of the faff.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone else wrote this on Slashdot once: there's no excuse for a segmentation fault in GUI code.

Performance is only unpredictable if you're unfamiliar or you don't profile code. C advocates use the same argument tactic against the STL - except they're debunked every time because experienced C++ programmers know what the optimized assembly is going to be.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[DrXym]

It would actually be in Nokia's interests to hang onto QT and spread it EVERYWHERE. If they were smart they even got MS to allow them to use it in WP7, possibly even licence it for app development. Wouldn't that be a turn up for the books?

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[tiptone]

So Android becomes the Sharp Zaurus? Cool, I liked it the first time, should still be fun.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[chammy]

It's more powerful than you think - have a look at this blog post. With a little QScript you can include any logic you want with no messy PyQt binding or C++ needing compilation.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[Daniel Phillips]

That's impossible when GUI code is normally responsible for

I understand this mentality runs counter-intuitive for the faith-based programmers, who can't comprehend profiling their code and then rewriting it to be more efficient.

Bad attitude, Mr AC. Even if the GUI is only 1% in total, that 1% tends to show up as annoying latency when you start your application that sucks the real CPU, or try to control it. And think about subtle but easily visible issues like a pointer lagging behind the control movement or sluggish scrolling.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[Daniel Phillips]

That will never happen, Google loves Java and Python (both are stupid choices if you ask me).

Obvious for the former, +1 for the latter. Guido shows an irresponsible ignorance of the importance of runtime efficiency.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[Daniel Phillips]

Qt and C++ were great in 1995. Last time I checked, it's not 1995 anymore.

If you think that either QT or C++ are irrelevant in 2012 then you are uninformed, delusional or both.

Re:Qt ecosystem...

[Anonymous Coward]

I see a lot of people using the words "smart" and "nokia" in the same sentence.
Have I just fallen into an alternate universe?
 

Video Removed

[freefal67]

For nudity or sexual content?

Re:Video Removed

[DigiShaman]

Must be some fantastic porn with all the right curves in all the right places.

Re:Video Removed

[RavenChild]

Running alpha releases can be very risque.

Re:Video Removed

[Anonymous Coward]

See the explanation: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=84862&cid=7402641

Re:Video Removed

[luizd]

For nudity or sexual content?

Maybe it was too sexy for some Nokia CEO...

Re:Video Removed

[Anonymous Coward]

Desktop background in the video is a nice bare rack I would love to stuff full of my hardware, but not the server kind... kinda ridiculous this guy made that video with that sa

Re:Video Removed

[merick]

The video opens with a shot of his desktop which is photograph of a nude female torso.

So, it was correctly flagged. Unfortunate that he started the video that way.

Re:Video Removed

[LucidBeast]

He doesn't want Apple to find out about this video.

GIVEN WP7 FIASCO RIGHT NOW I SAY GOOD !!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is worse than having sex with your sister!

Re:GIVEN WP7 FIASCO RIGHT NOW I SAY GOOD !!

[angus77]

How dare you talk about my sister that way!

...(was she really that bad?)...

Re:GIVEN WP7 FIASCO RIGHT NOW I SAY GOOD !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Better than my sister.

nudity and sexual

[Anonymous Coward]

Qt is that sexy - wow

Flagged video

[LingNoi]

So some asshole flagged the QT video on youtube and now there is no way to report it as incorrectly flagged. A new low for fanboys..

Re:Flagged video

[Anonymous Coward]

According to other comments the desktop pic that was used on the PC wasn't safe for work.

Re:Flagged video

[tuomasb]

Alternative URL from the original Google groups post:http://blip.tv/file/4790125

Re:Flagged video

[Anonymous Coward]

I just LOL'd my ass off. Link is real. Also... NSFW

Re:Flagged video

[LingNoi]

Thanks for posting the link. So tired of americans obsession with nipples getting in the way of everything..

Re:Flagged video

[spyder-implee]

Well said.

Re:Flagged video

[Anonymous Coward]

Not safe for work? Where are you working? in a monastery?? Agghh, USians...

Re:Flagged video

[Anonymous Coward]

A NSFW warning would have been nice.

Re:Flagged video

[kegon]

Think of the children - they might see a nipple and then they would have serious psychological issues. For life. Thanks for the link, tuomasb.

Re:Flagged video

[rubycodez]

a further panned out view to see the woman's face, hips, legs and crotch would have been nice

Re:Flagged video

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for posting the link. So tired of americans obsession with nipples getting in the way of everything..

Spoke too soon:
"Sorry, this video has been removed from blip.tv. " :(

Re:Flagged video

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but we're more than tolerant of cock-gobblers like yourself.

Re:Flagged video

[Anonymous Coward]

Taken down from blip.tv as well. What the hell is going on?

Re:Flagged video

[snadrus]

As an American, I feel the same way! It's just a tool to help sell more stuff here. Any suggestions?

Nokia is dead

[GNUALMAFUERTE]

This is incredible. It's hard to believe how stupid are some companies. Nokia had some awesome assets. How could they not see it?

- You are the world's largest manufacturer of mobile phones
- You own one of the best development frameworks in the world, a framework that is 100% cross platform, and totally Unix friendly
- The world is changing. Windows is decaying on desktops. Unix runs most servers, many desktops (combining Apple + GNU/Linux + other free Unix-like systems), and is the biggest mobile player (33% Android + 16% Apple)
- You have an awesome linux-based mobile platform (meego).
- Microsoft has consistently failed on the mobile market, and is irrelevant
- Every organization that has ever partnered with microsoft has lost, big time

So, the logical step is to throw away everything you have, ignore the market trend, and move to windows?

What. The. Fuck.

Partnering with Google, porting QT to Android, merging all cool meego functionality into Android, and cleaning up your product line didn't ever cross your mind, Nokia?

But you can see their main mistake was hiring Stephen Elop. Since he left Macromedia he couldn't hold a job for more than a year. Nothing screams failure like a CEO that roams through 3 companies in 2 years. And he got to Nokia from Microsoft. Really Nokia, just WTF.

Regardless, it doesn't seem to be the only company that doesn't get it. Most technology companies nowdays just plain don't get it. This morning I broke my samsung phone (android 1.6), so I bought a new one (Galaxy, 2.1 Eclair). It came with a shitload of crappy samsung apps, an awful theme, gmail replaced for some stupid mail app, and Yahoo as the search engine (can't be changed). I just rooted it, and installed Froyo. Looks awesome now. Why are technology companies boycotting themselves so badly lately? I just don't get it. /rant

Re:Nokia is dead

[vrythmax]

Partnering with Google would have killed Nokia because it would have added 2 years of development to get their phones where they wanted them. WP7 gives them a ready to go, high-end OS that is already doing well in Europe. which gives them time to put together a strategy that will either yield an OS of their own or guide development of WP7 or Android to suit their needs.

Re:Nokia is dead

[the linux geek]

Linux isn't Unix, and for your information, Windows runs on over 50% of servers sold. Linux competes with Windows at the low end, and with Unix at the midrange. Mainframes and monster Unix systems own the high end (16 sockets or more).

Re:Nokia is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

91% of the top 500 run Linux

http://www.top500.org/stats/list/35/osfam

Re:Nokia is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

GP is taking about the commercial high end machines (think huge data processing monster at BoA).

Re:Nokia is dead

[binarylarry]

...which are running Linux and Enterprise Java.

Re:Nokia is dead

[ponchietto]

Did you include in the equation the crapload of money Windows will fork (has already forked) to Nokia one way or the other to enter the mobile marked?

Re:Nokia is dead

[pyrbrand]

Every organization that has ever partnered with microsoft has lost, big time

I don't know, Intel, AMD, Dell, HP, Lenovo and a large number of other companies have done quite well over the last 30 years selling hardware for MS software.

(standard disclaimer: as my profile states, I work for MS, but not on anything related to phones)

Re:Nokia is dead

[the linux geek]

Are you people fucking retarded? There is NOTHING in common between an HPC cluster and a many-socket commercial database system except that they both have lots of processors. The vast majority of Big Systems are AIX, HP-UX, Solaris, OS/400, or one of the mainframe operating systems (OS 2200, MCP, z/OS, TPF).

The amount of ignorance masquerading as knowledge on Slashdot is truly frightening.

Re:Nokia is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

Every organization that has ever partnered with microsoft has lost, big time

What about Apple? If it weren't for Microsoft's financial help, they wouldn't exist now...

Re:Nokia is dead

[jonwil]

Blame the carriers for all the crap on your Galaxy phone.
They are usually the ones that want all this crap.

Re:Nokia is dead

[Zelgadiss]

Even Intel has had unpleasant dealings with MS. *cough*xbox1*cough*

But they are big enough that MS can't do much about them.

Even they know going along with MS is a bad idea in the long haul, you never know when they will backstab you once you have outlived your usefulness / when it's to their advantage.

Hence their investment in Linux.

Re:Nokia is dead

[renoX]

Counting Android as Linux is a bit weird: its programming API is very different from the classic Linux distribution..

I wonder what Google view are of the use of Qt on Android, I doubt that they're thrilled about it..

As for Nokia, they didn't even port Qt on Microsoft mobile phones! So I doubt that they like Qt much (probably blaming the tool for their own problems).

Re:Nokia is dead

[cdp0]

Why are technology companies boycotting themselves so badly lately? I just don't get it.

I can give you two reasons, although there are probably more possibilities:

• the people making decisions are complete idiots
• the people making decisions have more to win by making decisions against the greater good of the company than by helping the company, meaning there is a conflict of interests

In real life it's probably a mix of the two, with more of the second because idiots tend to be removed before they can do real harm.

Re:Nokia is dead

[|DeN|niS]

Note that this is not really actually "money".

It's things like Microsoft licenses (valued at outrageous prices), mentioning Nokia in ads (valued at outrageous prices), etc.

It's a bit like me giving you a self-drawn picture of a donkey, that I value at $1M, versus giving you an actual suitcase with $1M.

Re:Nokia is dead

[Skythe]

I get the feeling Microsoft is able to offer a lot more product support for Nokia with WP7. With Google it's more like "here's the source drop, GL compiling it". There's obviously a bit more behind the MS-Nokia deal than "you can use our OS". (Disclaimer: I'm a massive Android fanboy, own 4 handsets, I just think WP7 is a better fit for Nokia. And it needs a bolster to be more competitive and hence generate competition in the market).

Re:Nokia is dead

[Xest]

"Why are technology companies boycotting themselves so badly lately?"

Same reason companies in any mature market do, it takes enthusiasts to build a new industry, but when they've got it established the business world takes it over.

The first commercial entities in any industry sector are almost by necessity built by the engineers and scientists that create the underlying product that allows that industry to arise, but after some time when the industry is mature, the scientists and engineers become treated like a commodity and the business folk move in and run the show.

It's really just a sign that the market is maturing, it's not about the technology anymore, it's about acquiring other companies, shifting assets around, and other tasks that maximise money generation but don't really provide anything to society.

I really really hate Apple, but to their credit, the reason they're succeding financially is because they're focussing on products, rather than churning out mediocre crap and just relying on their $60bn cash pool to play the trading and investment game to make money. You can see the business ideology at work with Oracle, they bought Sun and are just destroying some excellent assets purely because they don't know how to monetise them whilst trying to monetise other assets to the extreme to the detriment of innovation in society (i.e. Java). You can see it with Microsoft, under Ballmer innovation and hence growth has vastly decreased than under Bill, who was a technologist. You can see it with Dell- whilst the CEO hasn't changed, his mindset has, gone from being focussed on building really good systems, to racing to the bottom by gimping their support and quality through outsourcing to maximise profits at the expense of customer confidence. You can see it with Activision, Kotick took over some really top notch innovative franchises, burns them out with multiple releases a year then cancels the franchise because he doesn't care about the games, he only cares about the money.

Technology firm shareholders need to realise this more- that there's far more money in bringing in bosses that innovate, than there is bringing in a business minded boss who can buy and sell, and strip and and build other companies and just rearrange assets to make money. I suspect this is why Schmidt has been forced to step down - because they realise Schmidt is a businessman, whereas Google needs a technologist if it wants to keep up pace of growth and profits to more than a mediocre degree.

When a company switches to a business oriented leadership over a leadership enthusiastic in the industry, that's when it all goes wrong.

Re:Nokia is dead

[dhavleak]

BS Rant! You're complaining about the fact that your brand-spanking-new android device has tons of shitware on it, and didn't come with the latest OS version. Well, that's possibly because of a race to the bottom that's eroding margins for android OEMs, which should have factored in to Nokia's decision.

You also seem to have no regard for Nokia themselves or Nokia's customers, so why should Nokia care about your opinion (or opinions like yours). Your entire post was about Nokia doing what's good for FOSS/Linux/Qt. Nokia needs to be concerned about themselves, and about thier customers. Use the right tool for the job, and avoid re-inventing the wheel. If FOSS/Linux/Qt wins based on the needs of the hour, budget at hand, etc., so be it. You made zero (absolutely mother-fucking zero) arguments for how FOSS/Linux/Qt could help Nokia -- you just assumed FOSS/Linux/Qt superiority to be a truism and started spewing nonsense.

Re:Nokia is dead

[kegon]

WP7 gives them a ready to go, high-end OS

By "ready to go" I take it you mean "economical in functionality but with glossy social networking stuff" and for "high-end" you mean "without multitasking" ?

What makes you think partnering with Microsoft will remove delays ? Are you thinking of another company named Microsoft ?

Re:Nokia is dead

[GNUALMAFUERTE]

You are completely disregarding the facts I presented. Windows has consistently failed in the mobile market, it has no marketshare, and this ain't gonna be different. Android, on the other hand, has been gaining marketshare every day, and all companies that went with it are relevant and successful. Nobody has ever talked about samsung's mobiles so much as they do since it released android phones.

Re:Nokia is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

Different from GNU, you mean?

Re:Nokia is dead

[renoX]

No different from the libc API, glibc is not the only C library for Linux: there are non-GNU one.

Re:Nokia is dead

[GNUALMAFUERTE]

You mean my carrier asked for all the samsung-branded apps? Come on.

Anyway, I rooted and changed the firmware, so I don't really care.

Re:Nokia is dead

[GNUALMAFUERTE]

Apple had a very special relationship with microsoft, and they knew how to pull their strings, everyone else, just lost.

Re:Nokia is dead

[rubycodez]

Depends on definition. Defined by functionality, Linux and BSD are Unix, just not Unix(tm). As an old Unix(tm) sys admin and developer, I love GNU/Linux because it gives me a Unix workstation on my desk that is free and has freedom. And I love the BSD for internet facing boxes.

Re:Nokia is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

Easy, Easy put the pipe down slowly.

Now explain, how has the Nokia CEO's decision to hand Microsoft a critical mass of the mobile phone market place/share and an unimaginable, for Microsoft anyway, customer base help NoKia?

Really please explain to me how this is looking out for themselves even in the short term, ie 5 years?

On the FOSS comment you so eloquently highlighted, did you miss the comment on CROSS PLATFORM DEVELOPEMENT? If you don't understand how that can benefit the ecosystem then pick back up the pipe and start smoking again.

If its all about the APPs, ecosystem and customer experience, then PLEASE explain how this move by Elop equates to Nokia looking out for themselves, no REALLY please explain?

History is filled with previously apparently invincible companies dieing a death after missing obvious signs. Why would Nokia not be one of them today? A case for the future MBA courses unless they wake up, drop the pipe, and go back to their roots, innovation.

BTW have some Koolaid with your Pipe. Kindest Rgds, Mr Kandid

Re:Nokia is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

Counting Android as Linux is a bit weird: its programming API is very different from the classic Linux distribution..

Well, my android says kernel 2.6.29 so in some sense it really is a Linux. The JAVA API is not Linux API, Qt will probaly make use of the native Linux API though.

And most of the Linux APIs you are used to is libraries that may or may not be part of a linux installation. I bet we have a different setup you and me (assuming you have a linux box). In fact Qt is a API as well, not an application (beside the development tools and ecosystem)

I wonder what Google view are of the use of Qt on Android, I doubt that they're thrilled about it..

As for Nokia, they didn't even port Qt on Microsoft mobile phones! So I doubt that they like Qt much (probably blaming the tool for their own problems).

To be honest, Nokia purchased Qt and TrollTech just recently. And it ends up working an the major competitor phone intead of Nokias own. I admire the irony in this :)

As for the C++/Java discussion I am 10 times mor productive in Qt and C++ than in Java and Android. Qt brings Rapid Development for the user application space into C++, it brings al the things you though you move to Java for with the additional really nice UI experience that is cross OS compatible. All my projects is in Qt as I need software in Linux (home) and Windows (work).

Re:Nokia is dead

[joshsnow]

WHat!?
"Partnering with Google, porting QT to Android, merging all cool meego functionality into Android, and cleaning up your product line didn't ever cross your mind, Nokia?"
Why would Google accept this? They own the android platform - and it is a platform. It has everything from the touch interface right down to the OS Kernel - why would they need QT or anything from Meego? The truth is, in the mobile space, QT is a solution looking for a problem. Winblows 7 mobile, IOS and Android are full stack systems, they don't need another API layered on them, much as hard-core /. geeks might wish otherwise.
OTOH, I also don't agree with the opinion expressed elsewhere in this thread that stock android with Nokia specific customisations (which don't include anything from QT or Meego) would have been impossible. Nokias strength has always been their hardware, there's no reason they couldn't have become the premier vendor of Android handsets.

Re:Nokia is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

It IS Linux, maybe not so much GNU/Linux, although still is somewhat GNUish. Think of Android as GNOME or KDE.

Re:Nokia is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

And for what Googel thinks...
Nokia just bought them a programming framework with great community support that Nokia cannot shut down unless a version is handed over to the KDE Foundation (KDE is based on Qt and there is a contract). It is GPL and LGPL anyhow so I can make my own Qt-clone if I like.

Nokia pays the bill, Google and Android gets the community on their side.

Life is a bitch sometimes :)

Or... One persons dead is another persons bread (freely translated from Swedish).

Re:Nokia is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

I have seen the inside of making mobile phone platforms for Windows OS, Microsoft will make no effort what so ever to adjust or let you adjust the software to fit the hardware. They build the software closed source - you adjust the hardware. And THIS is not made during the coffee break....
I guess that either Nokia have found that they have the hardware already fit for MS, they will need to spend a lot of time to adjust the hardware for MS, or they will build phone entirely on 3:rd party hw, perhaps from Qualcom or ST-Ericsson.

Re:Nokia is dead

[dhavleak]

Reading is fundamental. I said nothing about you omitting facts -- I said you made zero arguments for how FOSS/Linux/Qt (by extension Android) can help Nokia. And you repeated the same mistake again in your reply. Never mind the part where your facts are a little embellished anyway.

Re:Nokia is dead

[dhavleak]

Now explain, how has the Nokia CEO's decision to hand Microsoft a critical mass of the mobile phone market place/share and an unimaginable, for Microsoft anyway, customer base help NoKia?

I don't make this claim, so I don't need to defend it. I'm merely stating that GP is full of shit.

On the FOSS comment you so eloquently highlighted, did you miss the comment on CROSS PLATFORM DEVELOPEMENT? If you don't understand how that can benefit the ecosystem then pick back up the pipe and start smoking again.

Benefits, the ecosystem -- that is not the same as benefits Nokia. How does the cross platform development help Nokia?

If its all about the APPs, ecosystem and customer experience, then PLEASE explain how this move by Elop equates to Nokia looking out for themselves, no REALLY please explain?

Are you slow? Did you see me make some claim somewhere? Or are you the type of person who can only see MS vs. the rest of the world, so I someone is not towing the FOSS line, then they must be rooting for MS?

History is filled with previously apparently invincible companies dieing a death after missing obvious signs. Why would Nokia not be one of them today? A case for the future MBA courses unless they wake up, drop the pipe, and go back to their roots, innovation.

Sigh.. does generic fact-free garbage like this even warrant a response?

Re:Nokia is dead

[andydread]

Please understand that Elop Is an X- Microsoft Executive. So Logic does not apply. Expecially when one of his jobs over at Microsoft was to convice Manufacturers to switch to Window Mobile.

Re:Nokia is dead

[Daniel Phillips]

Partnering with Google would have killed Nokia

Absolute revisionist rubbish. So far, Google is not known for sticking its fangs into its partners and sucking them dry as is Microsoft's habit. Quite the contrary. Google has lots of partners and would whither quickly without them.

Re:Nokia is dead

[gerddie]

WP7 gives them a[n ...] OS that is already doing well in Europe.

Citation needed.

Re:Nokia is dead

[PipsqueakOnAP133]

Actually, until the iPhone, WinMo6 was doing decently well.

Back in 2006, your main options were fairly simple:
1) WinMo
2) A used Palm Treo (since Palm was switching to WinMo)
3) Blackberry
4) Symbian

While Blackberry was definitely selling faster than Windows Mobile, Windows Mobile was not a failure by a long shot. Windows Mobile was the only one of those 4 options that ran on handhelds used in industry. So when you needed a handheld to do stuff, you got a Windows Mobile 2003 device.

GPS units of all sorts, including the majority of integrated navis in cars used the same core as Windows Mobile phones.

Meanwhile, the Symbian of then is roughly the same Symbian of now. And Linux for mobiles was OpenMoko.

How do I know who HTC is? It wasn't because of Android, it was because HTC made Windows Mobile phones with UMTS.

When it comes to smartphones before the iPhone, Windows Mobile was clearly not a failure. Sure, it's sucking ass right now. But that's what happens when you reboot your ecosystem from scratch.

(Yes, I have used this stuff before. I own a WinMo6 phone. I also own a Nexus S. And an iPhone. And a Windows Mobile 2002 handheld. And a Palm 3. And an even older Palm Pilot. And a Newton... or 3. And I had a Blackberry too.)

Re:Nokia is dead

[GNUALMAFUERTE]

In 2006 I was using a Motorola A1200, a fucking Linux-based phone. The screen was too small to use without a stylus, but it was still awesome.

Re:Nokia is dead

[PipsqueakOnAP133]

Ah yes, the Ming. I've encountered one so far, and the girl who owned it had no clue how unique it was.

Nevertheless, if you want to see failure in the mobile marketplace, GNU/Linux is a pretty damn good example:
The Ming, OpenMoko, Maemo/Meego, and to a certain extent, netbooks.
If it runs x11/xorg/Qt, history seems to imply that its doomed already.

While Linux kernel has certainly gotten a boost from Android in terms of "number of people using the linux kernel", it'd be unfair to discount the millions of handheld devices using Windows CE just because they're designed to run one and only one application: GPS units.

Anyhow, I've veered off topic.

Nokia going with the WP7 platform might not be ideal, but it's not like they had any choices that were definitively better.
Continuing Symbian would be disastrous since insiders acknowledge it wasn't designed to be used for the type of smartphones people expect these days.
Going with Android without a carrier to back them would lead to minimal sales and being stuck as just another phone manufacturer since there's so many out there. They'd have no unique selling point. There's no value add. It's akin to becoming Dell in the Dell/MS relationship.
Going with Meego is just dumb. It has taken how long? It has been delayed how many times? Its got no developer community and a phone wouldn't be ready until 2012? Might as well run out of money by then.
If I were making the decisions, I would have tried to partner with HP and use WebOS. WebOS seems like a well built platform. It was built on top of a knowledge base of iPhone engineers defecting from Apple. It's got a UI that has more polish than Android, and a development community and SDK that certainly looks more usable than Android's SDK. (I have not tried WebOS' SDK, but I have tried Android's.) Aside from WP7, it's the only option that doesn't lead to running out of money with no product nor becoming just another phone manufacturer with no reason to live.

I don't see the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

QT arose because (1) it was torture writing Win32 GUI code and (2) other cross-platform solutions were less than perfect.

But Android, even with its non-intuitive XML layouts, is already very simple to program and design for. It could be much better, certainly, but it is nowhere near the eye-bleeding torment that was the WinAPI.

And despite the many drawbacks of defining GUIs in XML, it has one advantage over WYSIWYG editors: it almost always results in interfaces being extremely lean and minimal, without the bloat and overdesign that comes from too much ease.

Re:I don't see the point.

[LucidBeast]

I think WYSIWYG editors for UI have failed miserably. XML, HTML or even QML are one solution, simple native libraries another. It seems that the UI implementation tools are twenty years old and suitable for designing fill in forms for PC. None of the platforms really support the programmers ability innovate with the UI and everything "cool" or fluid has to be custom coded at fairly low level. Qt is/was supposed to solve this, but I'm not seeing it.

Google sucks at customer service.

[aristotle-dude]

They make it impossible for anyone to find a way to file a complaint about their policies and some of their pages have threats of deleting your account if you ask the wrong question in the wrong place. What a bunch of first class a-holes.

Is is really that hard to have a feedback form? Do they really have to go around threatening to ban people for complaining in the wrong place?

Why do people like Android so much? People might call Apple arrogant but at least they have feedback forms and they don't threaten to ban people for asking questions.

Re:Google sucks at customer service.

[Anonymous Coward]

I love android, but google are hypocritical nazis. It sucks that all their software, android included are in constant beta, and there is nowhere to complain. Have a bug or feature request for a google app, they don't care. Google app developers completely ignore the android os bug tracker, cause it's a separate group from core android... /endrant

Re:Google sucks at customer service.

[Anonymous Coward]

It really is annoying. I had about half a grand in my merchent account when google shut it down for some reason. I asked for any information about what was going on, why it was done, etc. About a week later about a hundred and fifty showed up in my bank account. No explanation on how they arrived at that number, reply emails, or anything. And that was the end of it. Further emails just went into a void. I was all but a google fanboy before that. That was the point that really freaked me out though. I imagined what would happen with my other accounts in those circumstances. If picasa or gmail went away overnight.

Re:Google sucks at customer service.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why shouldn't they ignore it? AOSP is managed by the Open Handset Alliance, not Google. Should Google answer for code not written by Google?

Re:Google sucks at customer service.

[Anonymous Coward]

So how can one be hired to be a microsoft shill. Is there a application office somewhere?

Re:Google sucks at customer service.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please substantiate your claim that asking a particular question in a particular place can result in the threat of account deletion. It's a rather damming claim, and you must provide evidence if you wish to be taken seriously.

If what you say is true, don't you want to tell people about it in the most effective way? (If it's not true, then stop ranting like a crazy person.)

Alternate video link

[Anonymous Coward]

http://blip.tv/file/4790125

I had a dream

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a dream, that one day I would care that QT doesn't run on Windows. I had a dream that one day you would just use a phone for a phone, and not pretend it was a personal computer. I had a dream that one day, I'd get text message spam on my phone, and yes I had a dream that I'd be able to link my facebook account to my phone just so I could see what the relationship status of my second cousin's former roommate was while I was at work. Yes my brothers and sisters I had a dream.

Found the video.

[RavenChild]

Here's the video. There is "sexual" content in that his background isn't SFW. You have been warned if you really care about it.

http://blip.tv/file/4790125 [NSFW]

Re:Found the video.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sexual content? It's just a naked woman!
Naked woman != sexual content

RAM usage?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems like RAM (and mtd/flash storage) would go through the roof by adding Qt to Android. And the Android market has no dep resolution capability yet. So you'd have to pull all of Qt in for every project that needs to use it. Bad idea... Also you will have to manually create bindings to all of Android's core APIs to do anything useful, and you'd always be playing catch-up (or maybe you would have to just limit yourself to the ones that come in the NDK).

Re:RAM usage?

[LucidBeast]

I thought the video said that Qt runs as a service, so you only need one instance of each element. I don't know how efficient IPC is on android. Would imagine pretty efficient.

safe after 5s

[Anonymous Coward]

Using the other links people have posted its safe after 5 seconds in, just watched it at work.

Quick SFW copy

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6g1HsD5Roo (When youtube finishes processing)

puritan pukes

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh no! My mind has once again been scarred by a one second glimpse of the female breast! Thank you gentle stewards of YouTube for protecting the others from reliving the Janet Jackson superbowl horror.

awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally Time to start porting desktop stuff to Android....

This is a golden opportunity to kick Oracle in the nuts. If this is played right this will be the first cross over netbook - mobile device.

Long live Nokia!

[kervin]

Sigh...

- You own one of the best development frameworks in the world, a framework that is 100% cross platform, and totally Unix friendly

A lot of people would argue .Net is a much better development environment than Qt. I can't understand why someone would willingly use C++ to develop user applications ( not systems dev ) in 2011. Even Android promotes Java for this.

- The world is changing. Windows is decaying on desktops. Unix runs most servers, many desktops (combining Apple + GNU/Linux + other free Unix-like systems), and is the biggest mobile player (33% Android + 16% Apple)

How is windows 'decaying'? Is that your emotional way of saying that it's losing marketshare? If so, why should Nokia care?

- You have an awesome linux-based mobile platform (meego).

Yes, unfortunately, only nerds care about that. And in case you missed Elop's many interviews, the board was focused on delivering more than just an operating system. Microsoft brings, XBox, office productivity, Bing and many other very large franchises.

- Microsoft has consistently failed on the mobile market, and is irrelevant

Many of the innovative features found on Android and IPhone today came from Microsoft and RIM. They ran the market for at least a decade before they faltered. WP7 has been out for only 3 months and has already gained 1-3% ( depends on who you ask ). That's without Nokia.

- Every organization that has ever partnered with microsoft has lost, big time

HTC made all its money before a year or two ago from Microsoft. That tiny company would never have been able to produce its own OS. Sony did the same. Dell and HP have both grown for decades using Microsoft software.

Re:Long live Nokia!

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of people would argue .Net is a much better development environment than Qt.

Define "better".

Re:Long live Nokia!

[Anonymous Coward]

HTC's deals with Microsoft were non-exclusive. Which put them in the situation they are in now: 1 of the top 2 manufacturers of Android phones.

Except for things like not having the HTC Desire HD (Android version of HTC HD2) a year ago when the Desire came out, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of Microsoft telling HTC what to do. Nokia doesn't seem to have this kind of leeway. And they couldn't possibly thing becoming the top manufacturer of WP7 phones is going to bring that back to the top. Others also make WP7 phones so what is going to make Nokia's WP7 phones so special?

Similar principles apply to HP and Dell, although they did have that issue about 'subsidised pricing for putting Windows on laptops'.

Re:Long live Nokia!

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of people would argue .Net is a much better development environment than Qt. I can't understand why someone would willingly use C++ to develop user applications ( not systems dev ) in 2011. Even Android promotes Java for this.

Whether or not you yourself would use it isn't the point. On the desktop applications can be developed in the language you want with the IDE you want and be delivered to the end user in the way that you want. What's so special about mobile phones that developers can't have that same flexibility?

Re:Long live Nokia!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh...

- Every organization that has ever partnered with microsoft has lost, big time

HTC made all its money before a year or two ago from Microsoft. That tiny company would never have been able to produce its own OS. Sony did the same. Dell and HP have both grown for decades using Microsoft software.

Dell and HP are road kill. But that is besides the point, for PC manufacturers there was no other option once users were locked into DOS/Windows. So in terms of market competition all of their competitors had the same millstone around their necks, except Apple. So now Apple has in house development, where as HP, Dell and now Nokia are at the mercy of Microsoft a company with a long track record showing an inability to break out into other markets. Apple has been successful, Microsoft loses money on everything but Office/Windows.

Re:Long live Nokia!

[Daengbo]

I can't understand why someone would willingly use C++ to develop user applications ( not systems dev ) in 2011. Even Android promotes Java for this.

Then use JavaScript.

Re:Long live Nokia!

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of people would argue .Net is a much better development environment than Qt. I can't understand why someone would willingly use C++ to develop user applications ( not systems dev ) in 2011. Even Android promotes Java for this.

You really don't understand much then, do you? "I heard C++ is difficult and stuff" just isn't good enough. "A lot of people would argue", or "In my opinion didn't sound too convincing"?

Qt is portable, and fits in everywhere. .NET (WinForms) is not, and even where it happens to work (not-Windows) it's just butt-ugly. Besides, Qt API is (IMO) a lot better than anything Microsoft has been able to do; and the Qt people don't keep changing and deprecating everything after every couple of years.

Many of the innovative features found on Android and IPhone today came from Microsoft and RIM. They ran the market for at least a decade before they faltered. WP7 has been out for only 3 months and has already gained 1-3% ( depends on who you ask ). That's without Nokia.

Microsoft never ran the market, and RIM was only ever important in North America. WP7 has failed to gain traction even in the US which really shows how big a failure it is.

Besides, the only "innovative feature" of the iPhone was the good touch-enabled UI, which Windows Mobiles positively never had. What innovative features are you talking about?

Re:Long live Nokia!

[kikito]

Nah, it's the money.

Re:Long live Nokia!

[|DeN|niS]

A lot of people would argue .Net is a much better development environment than Qt. I can't understand why someone would willingly use C++ to develop user applications ( not systems dev ) in 2011. Even Android promotes Java for this.

Good for you, but I am one of those people who prefer the power of C++, and more importantly to target other platforms than Windows. Besides, with Qt, C++ isn't any harder than Java (which sucks in its verbosity, I can't stand it, see how that works with opinions?). Android is by the way fully embracing native development now, as it improves performance, reduces reliance on the controversial Java code and Oracle threats, and allows much quicker porting of existing applications (exactly the same thing that's going to hamper WP7's C#)

Microsoft brings, XBox, office productivity, Bing and many other very large franchises.

Bing ?????? Who cares? Xbox ? Don't give a crap wrt my phone. Office productivity, MS already have this on Symbian

I have no doubt MS can and will produce a very smooth and nice experience, but as with Google it will lock in tightly to their own OS, their own services, etc. I highly doubt a WP phone will export itself as a generic mass storage device like Symbian can, for example, instead needing drivers which are of course only available for Windows, and probably only Windows 7 onwards at that. Email will favour Outlook/Exchange, just like Android favours gmail. IE9 will have its own quirks and deviations from the standard. What Nokia used to have was independent support of those, though none of it stellar

.

And of course this article is about Qt on Android, which is Nokia's strategy and investments now paying off in providing an upgrade path from Symbian - except to Android instead of their own next gen OS!

IMHO more people prefer Qt and targetting several platforms, than using MS only tools and targetting only WP. Nokia is shooting itself in the foot by not supporting Qt on WP, which is a purely political BS decision.

Re:Long live Nokia!

[the_womble]

A lot of people would argue .Net is a much better development environment than Qt. I can't understand why someone would willingly use C++ to develop user applications ( not systems dev ) in 2011. Even Android promotes Java for this.

He said one of the best, not the best. The fact is that most user applications are developed in C or C++.
The world is changing. Windows is decaying on desktops. Unix runs most servers, many desktops (combining Apple + GNU/Linux + other free Unix-like systems), and is the biggest mobile player (33% Android + 16% Apple)

How is windows 'decaying'? Is that your emotional way of saying that it's losing marketshare? If so, why should Nokia care?

Nokia should care because the argument for using MS is that the customers want Windows.

Yes, unfortunately, only nerds care about that.

That is a failure of Nokia's development or marketing. Meego could have offered customers a lot.

And in case you missed Elop's many interviews, the board was focused on delivering more than just an operating system. Microsoft brings, XBox, office productivity, Bing and many other very large franchises.

SO your suggesting that we will see XBox compatible phones? Or full versions of MS Office on phones? Otherwise MS is not bringing those to Nokia.

Many of the innovative features found on Android and IPhone today came from Microsoft and RIM.

Name five that came from MS. RIM is not relevant to a deal with MS.

They ran the market for at least a decade before they faltered. WP7 has been out for only 3 months and has already gained 1-3% ( depends on who you ask ). That's without Nokia.

How much is MS's total share of the phone OS market?

HTC made all its money before a year or two ago from Microsoft. That tiny company would never have been able to produce its own OS. Sony did the same. Dell and HP have both grown for decades using Microsoft software

HTC benefited because they were tiny and no one else was willing to do the same deal with MS. Dell and HP in the PC market are just box builders. As for Sony, which bit of Sony are you talking about? PCs? Consoles? Something else?

Re:Long live Nokia!

[Anonymous Coward]

worse

Re:Long live Nokia!

[tepples]

On the desktop applications can be developed in the language you want with the IDE you want and be delivered to the end user in the way that you want. What's so special about mobile phones that developers can't have that same flexibility?

There is an expectation among end users that a "telephone" be an appliance. PCs have a reputation for crashing often, largely caused by Windows 9x and lingering to an extent through Windows XP and Windows Vista. You can't get phone calls while your phone is frozen or rebooting. One way to improve reliability is to enforce type safety. JavaScript, Java, and .NET environments can be made verifiably type-safe. Environments allowing standard C++ cannot; they have to rely on safety provided by the operating system, assisted by memory mapping hardware. This is why iOS 1.0 lacked native applications, the first versions of Android lacked the NDK, and the Windows Phone 7 and Xbox Live Indie Games environments (both of which use the .NET Compact Framework and XNA API) still lack native code support.

Re:Long live Nokia!

[tepples]

The fact is that most user applications are developed in C or C++.

A growing number of applications available to end users are written in a mix of PHP and JavaScript, or Java and JavaScript, or Python and JavaScript, or Perl and JavaScript. The offline portions of web applications, using CACHE MANIFEST and localStorage, are written entirely in JavaScript or a language that compiles to JavaScript.

Nokia should care because the argument for using MS is that the customers want Windows.

And Windows Phone 7 doesn't support standard C++. (C++/CLI doesn't count because the syntax of its verifiably type-safe subset is incompatible with standard C++.)

SO your suggesting that we will see XBox compatible phones?

That's exactly what is suggested. Both Xbox Live Indie Games and games for Windows Phone 7 use the same XNA API. As I understand it, porting a game takes two steps: 1. rewrite the input part of the view to use touch, and 2. change the output part of the view to use lower-detail meshes, textures, and shaders for mobile IGPs. The model and even part of the view remain exactly the same.

As for Sony, which bit of Sony are you talking about? PCs? Consoles? Something else?

The part that used to be called Ericsson, perhaps?

Re:Long live Nokia!

[SpinyNorman]

A lot of people would argue .Net is a much better development environment than Qt. I can't understand why someone would willingly use C++ to develop user applications ( not systems dev ) in 2011. Even Android promotes Java for this.

Android doesn't promote Java because it's a better language than C++ for developing apps, but rather because of the benefits of using a virtual machine (just as ,.NET targets the CLR VM). Anyways, I'd say that C# (since you're implicitly comparing .NET to C++) has as much in common with C++ as it does with Java.

If you think that .NET provides more productive libraries/etc to build graphical apps than Qt, then I can only assume you've never actually used Qt (esp. the components like QML & Qt Quick intended for modern animated phone-type applications).

Re:Long live Nokia!

[scorp1us]

A lot of people would argue .Net is a much better development environment than Qt. I can't understand why someone would willingly use C++ to develop user applications ( not systems dev ) in 2011. Even Android promotes Java for this.

I've used all three. I prefer Qt, though .Net does win in some areas. Qt comes with Boost (or vice-versa, please, I know that is not technically correct, but work with me here) but Boost is a C++ library that brings C++ into modern times, adding parenting, introspection and events (publish/subscribe - not just window messages) and a ton of other features that makes it 90% of what .Net is. This is proven by the Jambi and PyQt/PySide projects which are Java/Python wrappers respectively. C++ is effectively updated to a usable language that is compiled nativity.

The biggest difference to me, are a few things Qt lacks (XQuery update support, proper SOAP, etc, but these are on the roadmap) and the documentation. Qt's docs are a joy.

Re:Long live Nokia!

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh? The phone exporting itself as a mass storage drive without drivers is hardly a Symbian specific feature. It's been the case with every BlackBerry phone I've used over the last several years.

Re:Long live Nokia!

[harry1701]

I can't understand why someone would willingly use C++ to develop user applications ( not systems dev ) in 2011. Even Android promotes Java for this.

Why do you assume you have to use C++ to develop Qt user applications? People use QtQuick (declarative programming with QML + JavaScript) to develop user applications without C++. Not to mention PySide and all the other language bindings. However, I really DO want my UI/system libraries to be written in C++, simply because of runtime speed and memory consumption.

Re:Long live Nokia!

[Rufty]

What "innovative features found on Android and IPhone" from Microsoft and RIM did not come first from Palm or the Newton?

Re:Long live Nokia!

[Daniel Phillips]

A lot of people would argue .Net is a much better development environment than Qt.

Those people can argue whatever they want if they are willing to be wrong. For one thing, .Net is not a development environment, it is a managed code execution environment. For another, QT is not a development environment, it is a GUI support library. And most importantly, even if they were both development environments, which they are not, nobody except Microsoft needs a development environment or a library full of patent traps waiting to be sprung.

Re:Long live Nokia!

[Daniel Phillips]

HTC's deals with Microsoft were non-exclusive.

And that is probably the only reason they were not sucked dry and spit out as an empty husk like practically every company that has made an exclusive deal with Microsoft.

Video removed

[Anonymous Coward]

how come nobody else has noticed that the YouTube video has been removed for "nudity or sexual content?" Is someone playing dirty tricks, or has the editor just not bothered to check the links???

That is only the half of it

[Magnus Pym]

Nokia is one of the few companies that has really good wireless baseband technology. In fact, their baseband phone chipsets are second only to Qualcomm's. They have lots of very good and probably very well-paid wireless engineers who do all this stuff. Mr. Steven Elop probably doesn't give a damn about baseband, if he even knows what it is. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that he will sack the entire wireless engineering division and start using chips from Qualcomm or someone else. Actually, he'll probably go for a 2nd or 3rd tier vendor for the baseband. After all, it is all about the OS and apps, right? That is all he knows.

Within a couple of years, Nokia will be another pure OEM that simply assembles phones in China based on 100% sourced components. Mr. Elop and his Wall Street buddies will enjoy a couple of years of profit because of all the cost savings due to the sacked engineers, during which his bonus will be large enough to let a couple of generations of his family live in luxury. After that, Nokia will slide down to be part with the Chinese OEMs, and Elop will go on to rape the next company.

Re:That is only the half of it

[YoopDaDum]

Hey, you missed part of the action it seems... A few months ago, before Elop arrived, Nokia sold its baseband division. It's now called Renesas and is an independent business. Just like every baseband vendor, they're also moving in the application processor space to provide in addition to baseband chips integrated AP+BB solutions (as Qualcomm, as ST-Ericcson, etc.).

Re:That is only the half of it

[Anonymous Coward]

Nokia is one of the few companies that has really good wireless baseband technology.

Wireless tech was already sold last year.

Re:That is only the half of it

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, sacking the engineers doesn't really impact Nokia's bottom line. Especially the group of 6 or so that handle the baseband chipset design issues.

Re:That is only the half of it

[GNUALMAFUERTE]

I wish you weren't replying to me so I could mod you up (awesome)

Re:That is only the half of it

[Anonymous Coward]

Nokia is one of the few companies that has really good wireless baseband technology.

Too bad they already sold those operations to Renesans last summer "to put laser focus on smartphones".

Re:That is only the half of it

[Magnus Pym]

I've been out of the wireless space for a while and haven't been paying attention, thanks for sharing. That is quite a major move, I hope it works out for the guys, I know quite a few of them.

KDE is qt now too, correct?

[Anonymous Coward]

n/t

Re:Qt ecosystem...Not soon enough

[codepunk]

Not soon enough I am afraid, it would finally make android a first class device.

System wide?

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a dream that one day, all Qt applications will use system wide shared Qt libraries

Does that mean that some day Qt will support system wide "make install"? I've tried installing Qt on my desktop PC, and the install instructions says that this is not supported, just set some environment variable to point to the build directory.

I had a dream ?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is all great news, but really, what's with the "I had a dream" speech ?! This is actually rather embarrassing. It's just a darn software library!

US-centric again

[Kupfernigk]

Um- perhaps it never occurred to him? Because, you know, a lot of Europeans wouldn't even notice.

Re:US-centric again

[Anonymous Coward]

([x] Post Anonymously)

As a European former organiser of fetish/kinky/bdsm clubs (500+ persons, anything consensual allowed) and swinger parties I must say that I also thought that the background was pointless and immature to use, especially on a public screencast. Actually, I'm having a hard time taking anyone who use a "hot person" or otherwise gender stereotypical image as their desktop background seriously.

Microsoft doesn't have partners

[Colin Smith]

They have distributors.

 

Library Size Too Large....

[mcnazar]

A very impressive demo - and nice eye candy right at the start!!

My only problem with this is the sheer SIZE of required QT Libraries.

During the demo, the author downloaded over 25MB of QT Libraries to run some simple applications. 25MB is just too much.

My HTC Desire 2.2 hovers around the 25MB-30MB free space due to having only about 150MB internal memory to play with (the rest of the 256MB is taken up with bloat that came with the phone and cannot be removed).

I guess this will become far more relevant as the next gen phones hit the scene (these typically have >>> 512MB memory).

Still, very very very impressive.

Nokia Share dropped 3.17%

[Anonymous Coward]

http://markets.ft.com/tearsheets/performance.asp?s=fi:nok1v
"new 52-week low during today's trading session when it reached 6.41"

Re:Qt ecosystem...Not soon enough

[ranulf]

Well, I'm not too sure of that. The example he demonstrated in the video looks very underwhelming - he certainly doesn't demonstrate that Qt can look more visually appealing than the native android calculator.

Frankly, the download time for the libraries is unacceptable - it should be packaged along with the application itself. If it's so large (25Mb is much more than most apps), then something is seriously wrong. When I get an app from the marketplace, I'm happy for it to be added to the system download queue and wait until I get a notification that it's ready to use. If that app then required focus whilst spending another 10 minutes downloading stuff, I'd just quit it and uninstall. I'd never get to find out how great the app might be.

OMG 5 seconds naked breasts

[devent]

OMG 5 seconds of naked breasts. This monster who ever posted the video should be stoned to death. What if a child sees it? It will be scared for live and probably became a sexist rapist and a murderer.

What ever is wrong with American people? Why you are so scared of nudity, shouldn't you be so proud living in "the most free country in the world" with the first amendment and so?

Re:OMG 5 seconds naked breasts

[The Moof]

What ever is wrong with American people?

I like staying employed. Naked breasts fall pretty squarely in the NSFW realm these days.

Re:OMG 5 seconds naked breasts

[harry1701]

I like staying employed. Naked breasts fall pretty squarely in the NSFW realm these days.

Then why is the video completely blocked for everyone instead of having a NSFW-do-you-really-want-to-view button?

Re:OMG 5 seconds naked breasts

[Anonymous Coward]

I work in a beach bar in Europe, you insensitive clod!

Re:OMG 5 seconds naked breasts

[Max Romantschuk]

I like staying employed. Naked breasts fall pretty squarely in the NSFW realm these days.

That sounds scary... Thank heavens I live in Europe. :)

Yes, I agree, but...

[Kupfernigk]

I grew up in the days when factories and offices used to display nudes on calendars and think nothing of it. (That visible aspect of the culture has largely died out, though the old attitudes still remain in many places. ) My suggestion was that this guy, immature or not, perhaps simply hadn't noticed. Yes, that was foolish in the circumstances, but perhaps understandable.

Unfortunately, and I say this with more than 30 years experience to back me up, there isn't actually a lot of connection between social progressiveness and engineering skills. Your own "having a hard time" is itself stereotypical - Richard Feynmann was one of the greatest physicists of the 20th century, but his attitudes to women were mixed up and sent some very bad messages. I'd suggest that for someone to want to do the work you describe yourself as doing, you might yourself have some background problems. I imagine most people without serious sexual hangups would find fetishism and so on incomprehensible and boring.

Re:Yes, I agree, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

No background problems. Middle class, parents still together, the oldest of two children, never beaten, decent grades, grew up in family with no drugs, no alcoholism, no fighting, no abuse, no religion and no gambling, and I'm easily bored... :-)

video removed for sexual content?

[Uzik2]

What happened to the demo video?

C++ doesn't even run on WP7

[tepples]

Just do the about face and tell all those Qt developers they employ to make Qt run on WP7

How will Qt run on WP7 if standard C++ doesn't even run on WP7 due to not being verifiably type-safe? The excuse for C++ found on WP7 has different, incompatible syntax for pointers and arrays. Even if they rewrite Qt line-by-line for C#, applications for such a Qt on WP7 won't be portable to anything else.

Re:C++ doesn't even run on WP7

[Anthony Mouse]

They don't have to rewrite Qt and make it incompatible. They just have to [get Microsoft to] allow standard C++ on WP7. Microsoft likes to make ugly language changes like that under the fig leaf type safety or whatever because they like to make it difficult to make portable Windows programs. When the situation is reversed and they're trying to get the larger number of Android apps running on WP7, portability is their friend and excuses like type safety start to look pretty thin.

Elop knew no better

[Anonymous Coward]

Elop knew only Microsoft so when faced with all that Qt Linux type stuff he decided to screw the company he was meant to be working for in return for something he at least understood a little.

He is a Microsoft agent out to support Microsoft at the expense of Nokia. It's obvious to anyone with eyes to see and a brain to understand.

Does it matter?

[morgauxo]

Is anybody buying Windows phones anymore anyway? It looks like it's all iPhone and Android from here served with a side of BlackBerry. I bet they don't port QT to FreeDOS, Haiku or Syllable either!

Re:Does it matter?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://qt-haiku.ru/

I have a dream...

[lexidation]

...that one day, all God's androids will join hands and sing, in the words of the old Nokia spiritual, "Free at last, free at last. Thank God almighty, we're free at last!"

Doesn't matter

[Anonymous Coward]

Mobile development is slowly but surely standardizing on html + css + javascript for the presentation layer. Qt on Android is about as relevant as a C64 emulator on Android - a cool hobby project for a few enthusiasts.

Re:Doesn't matter

[Urkki]

Mobile development is slowly but surely standardizing on html + css + javascript for the presentation layer. Qt on Android is about as relevant as a C64 emulator on Android - a cool hobby project for a few enthusiasts.

It'll be at least... 3 years before phones have browsers capable of displaying proper HTML apps. Probably more, as even HTML itself isn't quite ready yet, just in the "technology preview" state. So your statement is kind of premature, until then many apps just can't be made with "web technologies".

Remote X

[Anonymous Coward]

I really want to be able to use Remote X On my Android phone, that is the one feature I really want that I do not currently have. Hopefully this will allow me to do that sometime in the future.

Re:Remote X

[Urkki]

I really want to be able to use Remote X On my Android phone, that is the one feature I really want that I do not currently have. Hopefully this will allow me to do that sometime in the future.

Maybe in a roundabout way, making it easier to port a "virtual" X server to Android. But Qt itself has nothing to do with X (except on Linux platforms, which Android isn't for this purpose).

Re:Long live Nokia! - Nokia will die!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh... uhuhuh..... eh wtf?

Kervin you dont know very much of what you are writing, but thats ok, you are definitely a windows user and I think thats a MUST for being one.

The point is that WM7 sucks and it will represent the end of a long term company, and wrong turns can make you crash.

  Mediocre programmers forget core ideas, uses crappy frameworks (.net) and produces crappy results.

Its ok, I will keep this thread and re-read it in less than 24 month

What goes around comes around.

[recharged95]

"'I had a dream that one day, I'll be able to deploy existing Qt software on any Android platform. I had a dream that one day, all Qt applications will use system wide shared Qt libraries. I had a dream that one day, all Qt applications once compiled and deployed to one android platform, will run on any other newer android platform and will last for years without any recompilation. I had a dream that one day, I'll be able to create, manage, compile debug and deploy Qt apps using a first class citizen IDE.'

Wow. He just described Java and its ecosystem... and wasn't Qt and it's C++ followers 100% against Java back in the day (before JambaQt). Wouldn't it be easier to just fix AWT/Swing/SWT?

Re:What goes around comes around.

[Urkki]

Wow. He just described Java and its ecosystem... and wasn't Qt and it's C++ followers 100% against Java back in the day (before JambaQt). Wouldn't it be easier to just fix AWT/Swing/SWT?

Maybe he doesn't like Java, but Likes Qt C++? I know I do.

Anyway, with Oracle thing, there's more reason to be suspicious about Java than just not liking it personally. Also, he's not "fixing" anything, he's adding support for something which he already considers sufficiently unbroken. Quite understandable really, because he has power to do that, it's doable by one person (as demonstrated here), while chaning existing toolkits owned and maintained by various organizations... probably not realistic without a Death Star on orbit to use as negotiation tool to get changes to happen.