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Nokia Sells Qt

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the yeah-who-needs-it dept.

Google85 writes "Now that Nokia has shifted to a Windows Phone-centric smartphone strategy, it's only natural for the company to divest itself of responsibility with regard to the Qt framework. It has been announced Digia will acquire the Qt commercial licensing and services business from Nokia, including the transfer of some 3,500 desktop and embedded customers actively using Qt today."

44 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. So much for plan B... by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I guess they are really going "all in" on Windows mobile. Kinda risky making your entire company totally dependent on a single outside vendor with a track record for not caring about partners.

    1. Re:So much for plan B... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One of capitalism's many problems is that corporations are run by capitalistic humans, and such humans concern themselves by definition with rational self-interest.

      The huge bonus from completing a deal which is extremely risky in the long term ('sup banking crisis?) mean that any fallout will be of no consequence to those responsible for completing the deal.

      It doesn't matter that history has shown over and over that Microsoft are consistent and excellent at assassinating their bedfellows. All that matters is the temporary boost that will make a few people rich enough to enjoy a dozen good retirements.

    2. Re:So much for plan B... by Stumbles · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sounds like another Novell/SCO is in the works 5 years down the line with Digia taking over the SCOfud. SCO tried to make great hay that no one sells a business without copyrights. Unsurprisingly, this proves SCO to BE WRONG.

      --
      My karma is not a Chameleon.
    3. Re:So much for plan B... by erroneus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's way too predictable. The person in charge of Nokia has a LOT of Microsoft stock and no Nokia stock, or so I've read. It was this that upset Nokia employees the most -- it was clear from the beginning where this person's interests would lie. And so now it is all coming to pass.

      And it's not like Microsoft's previous dealings with phone makers were resulted in anything better. I seem to recall a story from years ago when Microsoft was initially trying to get a phone making partner to work with them -- all (including and especially Nokia) refused Microsoft with the exception of a company called "Orange" who thought they had a really good deal. Turned out that Microsoft created a deal with them that said if they missed certain deadlines, that everything they worked on "belonged to Microsoft" or something like that.... and it didn't matter if Microsoft was the reason for the missed deadlines which was reportedly the case. Microsoft essentially foreclosed on the Orange deal and collected all the IP from the project leaving Orange holding the bag.

      A quick Google search shows that Orange and Microsoft are still dealing with one another... sad that they didn't learn their lesson... and that fewer are learning from history.

    4. Re:So much for plan B... by 1s44c · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I guess they are really going "all in" on Windows mobile. Kinda risky making your entire company totally dependent on a single outside vendor with a track record for not caring about partners.

      'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.

    5. Re:So much for plan B... by Gubbe · · Score: 5, Informative

      Elop already sold all MS stock and bought 150K Nokia stock on 17th of February.

    6. Re:So much for plan B... by recoiledsnake · · Score: 2

      And the path that they were taking earlier was going to be super successful right? They failed bigtime at Meego with multiyear delays and instead of slipping into irrelevance are making a good try.

      > It doesn't matter that history has shown over and over that Microsoft are consistent and excellent at assassinating their bedfellows

      Like HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, Sony ? Even in the software space, they have "assassinated" companies by making better software(if they don't they fail, see Microsoft Money vs. Quicken), not banning them like Apple does on their 'Post-PC' iDevices.

      --
      This space for rent.
    7. Re:So much for plan B... by recoiledsnake · · Score: 2

      Why do you think the board hired him in the first place in place of the local talent and VPs ? They obviously knew by that time that Meego was a failed project and they had to go in the new direction. They probably decided by then that WP7 or Android was the way to go and hired the new boss accordingly.

      --
      This space for rent.
    8. Re:So much for plan B... by DrXym · · Score: 4, Insightful

      'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.

      I doubt it's death, so much as transformation. Before the announcement Nokia was an innovator producing distinct hardware & software. After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC. Perhaps it's cheaper to do, but at the end of the day Nokia's brand will be severely tarnished.

      It's also worth noting that Nokia is the only manufacturer to bet the farm on a single phone OS vendor. LG, Samsung and HTC all have their fingers in many pies (e.g. WP7, Android, Bada, Brew). It seems like a good way to hedge if the WP7 ship sinks which is entirely possible.

    9. Re:So much for plan B... by 1s44c · · Score: 2

      'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.

      I doubt it's death, so much as transformation. Before the announcement Nokia was an innovator producing distinct hardware & software. After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC. Perhaps it's cheaper to do, but at the end of the day Nokia's brand will be severely tarnished.

      It's also worth noting that Nokia is the only manufacturer to bet the farm on a single phone OS vendor. LG, Samsung and HTC all have their fingers in many pies (e.g. WP7, Android, Bada, Brew). It seems like a good way to hedge if the WP7 ship sinks which is entirely possible.

      It's death of Nokia as a respected brand, sooner or later it will be death of Nokia entirely.

    10. Re:So much for plan B... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But I'm a KDE user you insensitive clod!

    11. Re:So much for plan B... by JabberWokky · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, Nokia still owns Qt... Digia is only handling the commercial software licensing and professional services for Qt. Basically, Digia are licensed to sell the product, but Nokia still owns and develops it in-house.

      Not exactly going "all in".

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    12. Re:So much for plan B... by Giometrix · · Score: 2, Interesting

      'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.

      I doubt it's death, so much as transformation. Before the announcement Nokia was an innovator producing distinct hardware & software. After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC. Perhaps it's cheaper to do, but at the end of the day Nokia's brand will be severely tarnished.

      It's also worth noting that Nokia is the only manufacturer to bet the farm on a single phone OS vendor. LG, Samsung and HTC all have their fingers in many pies (e.g. WP7, Android, Bada, Brew). It seems like a good way to hedge if the WP7 ship sinks which is entirely possible.

      It's death of Nokia as a respected brand, sooner or later it will be death of Nokia entirely.

      I'll argue that Nokia was already on it's death bed (as a respected brand), they were completely missing in the smart phone market, which is the market you need to be in if you want to be a respected cell phone manufacturer brand. Yes, they were working on neat products, but it seemed that they were quite a bit away from shipping (and being new, they carried a lot of risk as well).

      I think that Nokia was forced to going third party, where the choices are Android and WP7. think going with WP7 was a good idea. It's a shipped product that looks pretty slick and is well reviewed. Yes, it's not exclusive to Nokia, but it's not too popular compared to Android, so I think it will still give the Nokia phones a more exclusive feel as when compared to Android. That, and they got a ton of cash for choosing WP7, which they will hopefully use to develop neat hardware.

      --
      Download free e-books, lectures, and tutorials at bookgoldmine.com
    13. Re:So much for plan B... by SJ · · Score: 2

      ahem.... PlaysForSure?

    14. Re:So much for plan B... by ThePhilips · · Score: 3, Funny

      The fact just reinforces another conspiracy theory: Nokia is poised to fail and MS is going to buy it for the pennies.

      Why else Elop would invest into stock of the failing company?

      P.S. For every fact, one can always find even more twisted conspiracy theory. ;)

      --
      All hope abandon ye who enter here.
    15. Re:So much for plan B... by jonbryce · · Score: 3, Interesting

      QT's customers are developers who licence QT commercial edition, not end users. This includes companies such as Opera and Google who's products are used by millions of people.

      But I'm sure you knew that already.

    16. Re:So much for plan B... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I really don't understand why they didn't just dump Symbian for Android. They could have skinned it to look like Symbian

      WTF!

      The good bit of Symbian - uses orders of magnitude less resources that the competition.

      The bad bit - the UI from hell.

      And you suggest putting a Symbian UI on Android?

      Like I said, WTF.

      (Check out SBP mobile shell for Symbian to see what could have been done if Nokia weren't totally fucked up. Look at it running on a low-end piece of junk like the 5320 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZtKTOTus7s ).

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    17. Re:So much for plan B... by recoiledsnake · · Score: 2

      And the path that they were taking earlier was going to be super successful right?

      Why do you trolls have to phrase it as an either/or situation? Windows Phone 7 is a flop and Nokia hitched their wagon to it. There were other options.

      Like HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, Sony ?

      Yeah, their Windows lap dogs are doing reasonably well fighting over the scraps.

      Umm, if Android was chosen, won't Nokia be fighting for the 'scraps' with Motorola, HTC, Samsung, Sony, etc. as you put it? Be consistent!

      Atleast MS was offering them a better deal because it's a nascent platform, Google's wouldn't even care much at this point. And I thought Goldman Sachs analysts were riled on here? Unless it's to suit you I guess. Anyway, Nokia jumping on might make it

      --
      This space for rent.
    18. Re:So much for plan B... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Interesting

      After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC.

      Not quite. There's no "dedicated" WP7 vendor so far - all of the companies you've listed mostly do Android phones (Samsung is also pushing its Bada on low-cost phones); WP is the odd one in their lineup. Nokia, meanwhile, could become the maker of WP phones - much like HTC did back in the day when they rode the WinMo wave. The trick is in knowing when to jump off.

    19. Re:So much for plan B... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Uhhhh...You DO know the fed stopped him from buying Nokia and selling off his shares of MSFT under insider trading rules, yes? And that anyone who takes one of the high level positions in a company like CxO has to follow insider trading rules that only allow them to sell X number of stock per six months and IIRC not to buy ANY of the stock of the company they have joined for 6 months, too keep from having their knowledge affect pricing?

      If you want to blame someone for his stock situation blame the fed, as he already announced when he took the job we would be selling off his MSFT stock as fast as allowed and replacing it with Nokia since he believes in the company.

      And why is it everyone here would rather have Nokia dead than sell a WinPhone? They didn't hire a new CEO because it was Tuesday you know, they did it because they were bleeding to death and needed to do something NOW. Some will say they could have made MaeMo/MeeGo work, and this much is true if they would have picked one and trashed the others two years ago but they didn't and the infighting between the Symbian and MaeMo/MeeGo camps pretty much shit all over each other and the company.

      And as for Android? BWA HA HA HA HA...oh wait, you're serious? BWA HA HA HA HA HA! That market is BEYOND saturated! In a race to the bottom which is what Android is right now nobody and I mean NOBODY will pay the higher prices for Nokia handsets, not when most of the carriers are offering CCC (Cheapo Chinese Crap) running Droid for free for signing up (Hell a buddy got two for signing up. They aren't great but they work good enough) so Nokia would be left fighting for scraps with expensive hardware running a low end OS.

      Not saying anything is bad about Android, it is actually quite nice, but like PCs it IS in a race to the bottom ATM, with every retail store selling CCC phones and pads running the OS. And lets be honest folks, if you think the consumer don't know shit about X86 and have no clue when buying they know even less about ARM, and you'll find many are just looking at the pictures, which all look the same even on the boxes of CCC.

      So I think in the end this CEO will be given credit for doing the best he had with a shitty situation. The best bet Nokia could have done was snatch up Palm when it was on the market and fire the whole OS division and replace their OS with WebOS, but that ship has sailed. That left them with MeeGo (which go look up the hands on reviews and see how many times you read "unfinished" or "not where the others were a year ago" in the reviews) Symbian (which has more that hate it than love it) Android (over-saturated and in a race for the bottom) and WinPhone. Of these choices the ONLY one that would net them billions in advertising and engineering help was MSFT.

      Would you have rather they jumped head first into Droid and gotten nothing but a cutthroat market and a thank you note from Brin and Page?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    20. Re:So much for plan B... by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2

      One of capitalism's many problems...

      Why is it that people that rail against capitalism are steadfastly resistant to giving up all of their own capital?

      Probably because giving up your capital doesn't get you out of capitalism. It only makes your position inside capitalism worse.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  2. They sort of had to by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Informative
    ... while they still could. There was a "poison pill" in the QT acquisition

    (For those of you who don’t know what it is, the KDE Free Qt Foundation is what we call a “poison pill” for Trolltech: should we ever stop releasing open source versions of Qt, the foundation is given the right to unilaterally release the last version of Qt under the BSD license.

    So, why not get some $$$ while you can, right?

    1. Re:They sort of had to by Verdatum · · Score: 2

      I wish all the people arguing about whether or not this constitutes a "poison pill" would just take the "red pill" and get out of my Matrix!

    2. Re:They sort of had to by tomhudson · · Score: 2

      What does that agreement say about the case where they start releasing versions that contain features patented by another company, but which they have an agreement with such that they won't get sued...but nobody else is protected? I'd bet that that counts as releasing an open source version, even if you don't dare use it.

      This was one of the considerations in the wording of the GPL3.

      That would still be a violation of the GPL v2, as it would be a restriction on downstream recipients ability to do anything they want with the code, including, but not limited to, distribution of the code and compiling and running it for any purpose whatsoever.

  3. Digia by apodyopsis · · Score: 2

    I assume Digia are after commercial licensing fees, service agreements and support contracts for Qt and will attempt to build up the user base.

    Kinda sad to see Nokia vanish into a death spiral though. I really cannot see Windows based smart phones gaining traction against iPhone/Android unless they are really something special or are heavily discounted. I find the whole business tactic fairly incomprehensible to be honest, but I am assuming other people know more than me here.

    Given Nokia's position what else could they have done to preserve the market share? Any Ideas?

    1. Re:Digia by Asic+Eng · · Score: 2

      Randomly assigning more people doesn't help, I agree. However they could have assigned some engineers to code a new email client, maybe just clone the one for Android. The poor quality and clumsy interface of their email client caused complaints about Nokia smartphones for a long time - both on Symbian and Maemo. Email was a very important functionality for their customers, so they should have fixed that long ago.

  4. Re:They sort of didn't have to by segedunum · · Score: 2

    Well, they didn't. They new about this arrangement when they bought Trolltech and I'd hardly call it a 'poison pill'. For all the work and testing that open source developers put into Qt it was always there to ensure that Trolltech played fair whilst still keeping their ability to create separately licensed versions on the commercial side. The arrangement has always worked very well.

    I have no idea what Nokia expected to do with Qt to be honest.

  5. Meego by cederlov · · Score: 2

    Another nail in the coffin for Meego. At least from Nokias side. Lets hope Intel can carry the burden alone...

    1. Re:Meego by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Surely they can. Only, they're more focused on tablets. I believe we the users are most interested in the power of the mobiles in our pockets.

      I'm personally concerned with having the same OS on handheld, tablet, and desktop. I don't want to maintain multiple software ecosystems.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  6. Nokia did not sell Qt by rminsk · · Score: 5, Informative

    Nokia did not sell Qt to Digia. They sold the Qt commercial license business to Digia. Digia will now sell Qt licenses to companies like Adobe or Google who want to make closed-source modifications to Qt. Development of Qt itself will remain inside Nokia. Nokia will continue to develop Qt.

    1. Re:Nokia did not sell Qt by jrumney · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So let me get this straight. They're no longer making phones that will use Qt. They no longer have a financial interest in other companies adopting Qt for use in closed source products. They are still letting their developers work on Qt on company time. Exactly how long do you think they are going to maintain this state of affairs, given the time that elapsed between the announcement of the adoption of Windows Phone 7 ("but don't worry, we're not abandoning Qt") and this announcement?

    2. Re:Nokia did not sell Qt by oji-sama · · Score: 2

      Well... If I've understood correctly, they are going to be making phones that use QT for at least 2 years anyway?

      --
      It is what it is.
  7. Wow, that was fast by dingen · · Score: 5, Funny

    So I guess when Nokia stated on their official blog that Qt would remain to play an important role in Nokia they actually forgot to add "...for about three weeks".

    --
    Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    1. Re:Wow, that was fast by olliM · · Score: 4, Informative

      I guess in the spirit of fairness you should also link to the qt blog post detailing this sale: Nokia and Digia working together to grow the Qt community

  8. Little surprise as Microsoft is a QT competitor by pyalot · · Score: 2

    Microsoft does their own UI framework, development suite etc. pp. and QT had the audacity to think they could do it as well, including cross platform support.

    Naturally an alliance with Microsoft must include getting rid of Microsoft competitors, so little surprise there. Just confirms that whatever Nokia's gonna do, it'll not involve anything else then Microsoft approved "best" practices.

    --
    Experiments and other stuff
  9. But what does it mean for development? by starseeker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is the commercial licensing side of Qt, *NOT* Qt. The major thing that will matter to the open source community is whether Qt will still be developed as a robust cross platform toolkit, not so much what happens to the commercial licensing business. Even Qt's future on phones doesn't concern me too much - the smart phone industry moving towards "app store" models and locked down platforms is a much bigger concern. (I'm just waiting for Apple to announce they're moving to an App Store model for all their desktop machines...)

    Where Qt really shines is as a toolkit for graphical applications on the desktop. THAT's what ultimately concerns me - will the developers who have made Qt such an outstanding cross platform graphical toolkit will be allowed to continue their work as a paid, full time job? Never mind the phones, KDE and a vast array of non-KDE desktop applications that are important parts of the open source ecosystem rely on Qt (especially those that have to deploy on Windows). Would the commercial Linux vendors step in to keep the Qt devs programming, much as they have hired Linux kernel folk in the past? Libreoffice indicates they will act to protect key elements of open source, so fingers crossed. A statement along those lines would be reassuring, if they are in fact able and willing to fall back to that solution if necessary.

    --
    "I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
  10. Re:Free of Microsoft by gbjbaanb · · Score: 2

    True, if only Nokia had thousands of people working on useful stuff instead of (obviously) drowing in bureaucracy, Qt would be a world-beater.

    however, as its open-source, you'll find the Lighthouse project has already got Qt working on Android, and an Qt-iPhone project is making good inroads too.

  11. Re:Nokia is run by a bunch of bufoons. by 1s44c · · Score: 2

    If you own Nokia stock, I would recommend divesting of it asap.

    I did at a small loss, not that I had more than a few hundred dollars worth anyway. From the look of the prices so did many other people.

    A few days later I was asked if I want to apply for a linux admin job for Nokia. I'm staying well clear of that one.

  12. Response from David Stone @ Qt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hi all
    Here are a few points that might add clarity.

    Nokia did not 'sell Qt'. It selected a partner to sell commercial licenses and support services, a task that is currently done by Nokia. Qt is offered under two licenses - commercial and LGPL - and the large (majority in fact) base of non commercial users are not impacted by this change.

    The agreement lets Nokia focus on Qt for its core businesses, and ensures Qt commercial customers - mainly in the desktop and embedded space - are given top service by a company that has commercial Qt licensing at the core of its interests.

    The development of Qt has not been sold or outsourced and is not impacted by this change. Nokia's commitment to advancing and developing Qt for all Qt users has not changed - it remains commited.

    You can read some more details at http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/07/nokia-and-digia-working-together

    Regards
    David Stone
    Communications Manager, Qt

  13. Re:Free of Microsoft by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 2

    I don't like Objective-C (after releasing 5 iPhone apps) because my code is useless outside the iPhone/iPad. Plus I have to use xcode which is yards behind eclipse and even Visual Studio. My dream would be to program in C++ once for multiple platforms and to have my choice of original development platform as well as IDE.. I am not a fan of Java plus it looks like Apple is going to keep putting shots into the head of Java so to do anything Apple means avoiding Java.
    In any given month I maintain/develop in about 6 languages (if you count HTML/CSS as a language). So I am not against learning languages but I like my languages to be improvements such as my switch from perl to PHP. Not a step back to the early 90s. I My personal preference is C++ using a good framework like QT. Boost looks like it might be on my horizon.

  14. Re:Free of Microsoft by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Funny

    To paraphrase the old saying Objective-C is all the speed and familiarity of Smalltalk combined with all the safety and conciseness of C.

  15. search terms = microsoft digia by Locutus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the results show Digia as a big Microsoft fan, supporter, customer, partner.

    Watch Qt licensing and support fees to skyrocket to drive Qt out of the market. Nokia won't be implicated but that is probably the plan. Anything cross platform has _always_ been a threat to Microsoft and they have done everything legal and many time illegal to destroy these. Qt is a threat to Microsoft and destroying Qt also helps them hurt companies like Google and Adobe who base many of their tools and products on Qt. IMO

    I figured this would happen but hoped it wouldn't. it sucks.

    LoB

    --
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    1. Re:search terms = microsoft digia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Digia is just a quite generic Finnish integrator / consulting company with a large mobile division (relatively speaking) and some own products that they sell mostly domestically e.g Progress based ERP and mobile company phonebook with multiplatform support. They do partner with about any main stream software vendor like Microsoft, Oracle, IBM or Progress. I do not think they are particularly evil unless they got paid big time for being one.

      Strange think is that Digia bought QT licencing business as they do not have that much international businesses (especially outside mobile). I guess they got very good deal (close to free) while Nokia got out of a business that was not supporting Nokia's own goals. Think about 3500 customers that Nokia couldn't sell anything else directly.

      disclaimer, I used to work for Digia

    2. Re:search terms = microsoft digia by Locutus · · Score: 2

      I knew a guy who ran a small consulting biz and once he signed to be a Microsoft "Partner" he could not accept contracts using competing tools. So when I see so many tags showing a Digia & Microsoft Partner program membership, it stands to reason they will not do good things with the cross platform Qt. Cross platform anything has always put a bullseye on it for Microsoft to aim at and take out. It started in the early 90s with cross platform C++ frameworks, moved to 3D OpenGL and kept going from there. Look at Borland, they were a dev tools company and that was about it but they were cross platform and court docs showed they were targeted because of that. Borland won in court but they're gone.

      Trusting Microsoft and Nokia in this is inconsistent with history. A very long history. Qt commercial is going to be killed off and Digia was given a sweet deal to be the ones to do it. If they're public, watch their financials over the next few quarters. IMO

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus