Nokia Sells Qt

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Posted by CmdrTaco on Monday March 7, 2011 @01:46AM from the yeah-who-needs-it dept.

Google85 writes "Now that Nokia has shifted to a Windows Phone-centric smartphone strategy, it's only natural for the company to divest itself of responsibility with regard to the Qt framework. It has been announced Digia will acquire the Qt commercial licensing and services business from Nokia, including the transfer of some 3,500 desktop and embedded customers actively using Qt today."

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So much for plan B... by houstonbofh · 2011-03-07 01:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

I guess they are really going "all in" on Windows mobile. Kinda risky making your entire company totally dependent on a single outside vendor with a track record for not caring about partners.
1. Re:So much for plan B... by Samantha+Wright · 2011-03-07 01:53 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  I'm more concerned about the trolling that will result. How long before we see this cited in claims that there are no more than 3500 KDE users? ;)
  
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2. Re:So much for plan B... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-07 01:59 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  One of capitalism's many problems is that corporations are run by capitalistic humans, and such humans concern themselves by definition with rational self-interest.
  The huge bonus from completing a deal which is extremely risky in the long term ('sup banking crisis?) mean that any fallout will be of no consequence to those responsible for completing the deal.
  It doesn't matter that history has shown over and over that Microsoft are consistent and excellent at assassinating their bedfellows. All that matters is the temporary boost that will make a few people rich enough to enjoy a dozen good retirements.
3. Re:So much for plan B... by Stumbles · 2011-03-07 02:00 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Sounds like another Novell/SCO is in the works 5 years down the line with Digia taking over the SCOfud. SCO tried to make great hay that no one sells a business without copyrights. Unsurprisingly, this proves SCO to BE WRONG.
  
  --
  My karma is not a Chameleon.
4. Re:So much for plan B... by erroneus · 2011-03-07 02:17 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  It's way too predictable. The person in charge of Nokia has a LOT of Microsoft stock and no Nokia stock, or so I've read. It was this that upset Nokia employees the most -- it was clear from the beginning where this person's interests would lie. And so now it is all coming to pass.
  And it's not like Microsoft's previous dealings with phone makers were resulted in anything better. I seem to recall a story from years ago when Microsoft was initially trying to get a phone making partner to work with them -- all (including and especially Nokia) refused Microsoft with the exception of a company called "Orange" who thought they had a really good deal. Turned out that Microsoft created a deal with them that said if they missed certain deadlines, that everything they worked on "belonged to Microsoft" or something like that.... and it didn't matter if Microsoft was the reason for the missed deadlines which was reportedly the case. Microsoft essentially foreclosed on the Orange deal and collected all the IP from the project leaving Orange holding the bag.
  A quick Google search shows that Orange and Microsoft are still dealing with one another... sad that they didn't learn their lesson... and that fewer are learning from history.
5. Re:So much for plan B... by juasko · 2011-03-07 02:22 · Score: 1
  
  Or they're giving themselves a backdoor. I assume that further development on Qt was kinda banned by MS. But now spinning it of it can continue on it's own.
6. Re:So much for plan B... by juasko · 2011-03-07 02:24 · Score: 1
  
  He was a former MS boss, yeah so he had stocks... But I'm told he's selling them of as rapid he allowed. According to news he's stock exchange was stopped due to the fact that he sold too much in too short time affecting the overall price.
  So we'll se the saga continues.
7. Re:So much for plan B... by 1s44c · 2011-03-07 02:26 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I guess they are really going "all in" on Windows mobile. Kinda risky making your entire company totally dependent on a single outside vendor with a track record for not caring about partners.
  'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.
8. Re:So much for plan B... by Gubbe · 2011-03-07 02:34 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Elop already sold all MS stock and bought 150K Nokia stock on 17th of February.
9. Re:So much for plan B... by pipatron · 2011-03-07 02:40 · Score: 1
  
  So you mean that a company can actually have feelings now?
  
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10. Re:So much for plan B... by recoiledsnake · 2011-03-07 02:41 · Score: 2
  
  And the path that they were taking earlier was going to be super successful right? They failed bigtime at Meego with multiyear delays and instead of slipping into irrelevance are making a good try.
  > It doesn't matter that history has shown over and over that Microsoft are consistent and excellent at assassinating their bedfellows
  Like HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, Sony ? Even in the software space, they have "assassinated" companies by making better software(if they don't they fail, see Microsoft Money vs. Quicken), not banning them like Apple does on their 'Post-PC' iDevices.
  
  --
  This space for rent.
11. Re:So much for plan B... by recoiledsnake · 2011-03-07 02:45 · Score: 2
  
  Why do you think the board hired him in the first place in place of the local talent and VPs ? They obviously knew by that time that Meego was a failed project and they had to go in the new direction. They probably decided by then that WP7 or Android was the way to go and hired the new boss accordingly.
  
  --
  This space for rent.
12. Re:So much for plan B... by DrXym · 2011-03-07 02:48 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.
  I doubt it's death, so much as transformation. Before the announcement Nokia was an innovator producing distinct hardware & software. After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC. Perhaps it's cheaper to do, but at the end of the day Nokia's brand will be severely tarnished.
  It's also worth noting that Nokia is the only manufacturer to bet the farm on a single phone OS vendor. LG, Samsung and HTC all have their fingers in many pies (e.g. WP7, Android, Bada, Brew). It seems like a good way to hedge if the WP7 ship sinks which is entirely possible.
13. Re:So much for plan B... by grapeape · 2011-03-07 02:50 · Score: 1
  
  Shame on you trying to sully a perfectly good conspiracy theory with facts...this is /. you should know better.
14. Re:So much for plan B... by 1s44c · 2011-03-07 02:54 · Score: 2
  
  'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.
  I doubt it's death, so much as transformation. Before the announcement Nokia was an innovator producing distinct hardware & software. After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC. Perhaps it's cheaper to do, but at the end of the day Nokia's brand will be severely tarnished.
  It's also worth noting that Nokia is the only manufacturer to bet the farm on a single phone OS vendor. LG, Samsung and HTC all have their fingers in many pies (e.g. WP7, Android, Bada, Brew). It seems like a good way to hedge if the WP7 ship sinks which is entirely possible.
  It's death of Nokia as a respected brand, sooner or later it will be death of Nokia entirely.
15. Re:So much for plan B... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-07 03:01 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  But I'm a KDE user you insensitive clod!
16. Re:So much for plan B... by JabberWokky · 2011-03-07 03:06 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Well, Nokia still owns Qt... Digia is only handling the commercial software licensing and professional services for Qt. Basically, Digia are licensed to sell the product, but Nokia still owns and develops it in-house.
  Not exactly going "all in".
  
  --
  "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
17. Re:So much for plan B... by fwarren · 2011-03-07 03:18 · Score: 1
  
  Remember, there CEO is a softie, and due to the nature of the laws over there, is not able to own any sizable amount of stock in the company. All of his stock is in Microsoft. I think it is reasonable to say if WM7 fails, Microsoft stock will take a hit. Right now all of is value and worth is in Microsoft stock. Plus he has drank the MS tainted kool-aid for years. Any technology not created in Redmond is NOT good technology....unless Microsoft can buy it.
  As a good general rule of thumb. You should not have a CEO who will personally profit if another company success is far more important to them than the company they are running.
  
  --
  vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
18. Re:So much for plan B... by Giometrix · 2011-03-07 03:20 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.
  I doubt it's death, so much as transformation. Before the announcement Nokia was an innovator producing distinct hardware & software. After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC. Perhaps it's cheaper to do, but at the end of the day Nokia's brand will be severely tarnished.
  It's also worth noting that Nokia is the only manufacturer to bet the farm on a single phone OS vendor. LG, Samsung and HTC all have their fingers in many pies (e.g. WP7, Android, Bada, Brew). It seems like a good way to hedge if the WP7 ship sinks which is entirely possible.
  It's death of Nokia as a respected brand, sooner or later it will be death of Nokia entirely.
  I'll argue that Nokia was already on it's death bed (as a respected brand), they were completely missing in the smart phone market, which is the market you need to be in if you want to be a respected cell phone manufacturer brand. Yes, they were working on neat products, but it seemed that they were quite a bit away from shipping (and being new, they carried a lot of risk as well).
  I think that Nokia was forced to going third party, where the choices are Android and WP7. think going with WP7 was a good idea. It's a shipped product that looks pretty slick and is well reviewed. Yes, it's not exclusive to Nokia, but it's not too popular compared to Android, so I think it will still give the Nokia phones a more exclusive feel as when compared to Android. That, and they got a ton of cash for choosing WP7, which they will hopefully use to develop neat hardware.
  
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19. Re:So much for plan B... by Tanktalus · 2011-03-07 03:37 · Score: 1
  
  All 350 of us have 10 desktops apiece. That's easily 3500 users. One is for regular day-to-day use, one is for running my webbrowser in a clean state to reduce tracking, while the other 8 are for testing hangs, crashes, and other bugs, with clean .kde directories.
  (I keed... I love my KDE SC 4.6.1 environment. And my wife and four-year-old daughter don't mind 4.5.5 on their machine.)
20. Re:So much for plan B... by DrXym · 2011-03-07 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  I'll argue that Nokia was already on it's death bed (as a respected brand), they were completely missing in the smart phone market, which is the market you need to be in if you want to be a respected cell phone manufacturer brand. Yes, they were working on neat products, but it seemed that they were quite a bit away from shipping (and being new, they carried a lot of risk as well).
  Nokia did have smart phone offerings such as the C7. The C7 has been praised for its hardware and the software is tolerable but most reviews suggest Symbian is just poor by comparison to iOS or Android.
  I really don't understand why they didn't just dump Symbian for Android. They could have skinned it to look like Symbian, maybe even include a Symbian / QT runtime so apps still work, and integrate Ovi in there too. Then they'd have a modern smart phone with legacy support and they'd be back in the game while still being masters of their own destiny. By shutting down most of their R&D and sucking Microsoft's cock they just become another generic phone OEM.
21. Re:So much for plan B... by SJ · 2011-03-07 03:47 · Score: 2
  
  ahem.... PlaysForSure?
22. Re:So much for plan B... by andydread · 2011-03-07 03:56 · Score: 1
  
  Elop, Nokia's new CEO is an x-Microsoft executive. So this is no surprise. He left Microsoft to headup Nokia. And while at Microsoft Elop was President of the Business Division. So this is no surprise here at all. Not to mention he just sold all his MS stocks i guess to appease critics. http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Microsofts-Stephen-Elop-moves-to-Nokia-what-a-waste/1284136468
23. Re:So much for plan B... by ThePhilips · 2011-03-07 03:56 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  The fact just reinforces another conspiracy theory: Nokia is poised to fail and MS is going to buy it for the pennies.
  Why else Elop would invest into stock of the failing company?
  P.S. For every fact, one can always find even more twisted conspiracy theory. ;)
  
  --
  All hope abandon ye who enter here.
24. Re:So much for plan B... by Shadowmist · 2011-03-07 04:06 · Score: 1
  
  They had to.... the writing on the wall was clear for the future of Symbion.... a dead end with no future compared to an operating system that hosts the potential for open-ended application acquisition. In this case it was the marriage of two partners that were desperate for complementary ends. Microsoft needed a hardware vendor that would give it's Mobile platform a renewed reason for existence. And Nokia was left to choose between Google and Microsoft. (remember that while Android may be "free", it's a revenue stream for Google in terms of the Android Store) And apparantly the folks from Redmond were the more aggressive suitor.
25. Re:So much for plan B... by jonbryce · 2011-03-07 04:10 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  QT's customers are developers who licence QT commercial edition, not end users. This includes companies such as Opera and Google who's products are used by millions of people.
  But I'm sure you knew that already.
26. Re:So much for plan B... by sortius_nod · 2011-03-07 04:15 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, I have to call bullshit here.
  Nokia died as a reputable brand when they kept trying to sell their pieces of junk as smartphones. They wanted in on the iPhone market but really couldn't bring anything other than rehashes of a dumbphone with browsers.
  I really think Nokia made a terrible decision throwing everything behind WP7. As was stated by GGP, Nokia has cirrhosis and still visits the pub every night.
27. Re:So much for plan B... by extraordinaire · 2011-03-07 04:17 · Score: 1
  
  One of capitalism's many problems is that corporations are run by capitalistic humans, and such humans concern themselves by definition with rational self-interest.
  That's not the problem, my dear, it's the point of it all ('sup USSR?).
28. Re:So much for plan B... by Locutus · 2011-03-07 04:28 · Score: 1
  
  this is a former Microsoft exec, now CEO of Nokia, handing Nokia over to Microsoft as a phone asset. If you don't think so, read his speech of the deal and specifically the part on why Google was not an option. The stuff about Google being a threat to them was 100% Microsoft type fear and should have had nothing to do with Nokia.
  
  I'm happy to see they are not killing it outright but time will tell if the new owner isn't also a Microsoft "friend" and pulls the plug or does something effectively the same, ie moving the IDE into MS Visual Studio.
  
  LoB
  
  --
  "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
29. Re:So much for plan B... by Wizzu · 2011-03-07 04:38 · Score: 1
  
  It's way too predictable. The person in charge of Nokia has a LOT of Microsoft stock and no Nokia stock, or so I've read.
  Not true anymore, MS stock sold and Nokia stock purchased. What's more, doing so before the partnership announcement might have been illegal due to inside knowledge trading laws.
  It might still be predictable, sure.
30. Re:So much for plan B... by Wizzu · 2011-03-07 04:43 · Score: 1
  
  I posted about this above, but I guess I'll repeat:
  As far as I know, he's now sold all MS stock and has invested in some Nokia stock.
  The information was in the local news, though obviously it didn't make as big headlines as the original "controversy".
31. Re:So much for plan B... by gtall · 2011-03-07 04:47 · Score: 1
  
  Gee, hire MS drone, big surprise when he decides to "standardize" on MS software. Who could have predicted that?
32. Re:So much for plan B... by Samantha+Wright · 2011-03-07 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  Yes. But we should not let that get in the way of good trolling. For future reference, the correct response to any trolling is "Why do you feel that Python is so bad? What do you find wrong with it?"
  
  --
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33. Re:So much for plan B... by Eunuchswear · 2011-03-07 04:58 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I really don't understand why they didn't just dump Symbian for Android. They could have skinned it to look like Symbian
  WTF!
  The good bit of Symbian - uses orders of magnitude less resources that the competition.
  The bad bit - the UI from hell.
  And you suggest putting a Symbian UI on Android?
  Like I said, WTF.
  (Check out SBP mobile shell for Symbian to see what could have been done if Nokia weren't totally fucked up. Look at it running on a low-end piece of junk like the 5320 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZtKTOTus7s ).
  
  --
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34. Re:So much for plan B... by recoiledsnake · 2011-03-07 04:58 · Score: 2
  
  And the path that they were taking earlier was going to be super successful right?
  Why do you trolls have to phrase it as an either/or situation? Windows Phone 7 is a flop and Nokia hitched their wagon to it. There were other options.
  
  Like HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, Sony ?
  Yeah, their Windows lap dogs are doing reasonably well fighting over the scraps.
  Umm, if Android was chosen, won't Nokia be fighting for the 'scraps' with Motorola, HTC, Samsung, Sony, etc. as you put it? Be consistent!
  Atleast MS was offering them a better deal because it's a nascent platform, Google's wouldn't even care much at this point. And I thought Goldman Sachs analysts were riled on here? Unless it's to suit you I guess. Anyway, Nokia jumping on might make it
  
  --
  This space for rent.
35. Re:So much for plan B... by Microlith · 2011-03-07 05:02 · Score: 1
  
  They failed bigtime at Meego with multiyear delays
  MeeGo has existed for just over a year, and is still underway. Nokia's failure was entirely internal and resulted in them obstructing the growth of Maemo. Don't point and MeeGo and say "it has failed" when you actually mean Nokia.
36. Re:So much for plan B... by DrXym · 2011-03-07 05:06 · Score: 1
  
  WTF are you talking about ? They're not getting any cash : http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/15/debunk-elop-never-said-microsoft-is-paying-nokia-billions-of-do/
  
  I think it's pretty obvious that Nokia are being given hundreds of millions, possibly billions in order to transition to Windows Phone 7. Companies don't make such radical u-turns and run straight into their enemy's camp without a large financial incentive behind it.
  That doesn't mean Nokia are being paid in cold cash. It might be in the form of licence fee waivers, marketing assistance, premium developer support, advertising revnues, app store revenues / waivers, server licences etc.
37. Re:So much for plan B... by Ozy_Wizard · 2011-03-07 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  So the Nokia n900 was nothing? I have one and its faster than my Eeepc 701. Is better than my mates Android phone. Maemo was a great OS but Nokia left it and made MeeGo with Intel. Now their leaving MeeGo for Windows. I hope Android becomes better than its current smart phone OS and a real Linux OS.
38. Re:So much for plan B... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-03-07 05:13 · Score: 1
  
  It's a problem insofar as one's "rational self-interest" can mean "burn in Hell, the rest of you". A sociopath may well be rationally self-interested.
39. Re:So much for plan B... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-03-07 05:16 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC.
  
  Not quite. There's no "dedicated" WP7 vendor so far - all of the companies you've listed mostly do Android phones (Samsung is also pushing its Bada on low-cost phones); WP is the odd one in their lineup. Nokia, meanwhile, could become the maker of WP phones - much like HTC did back in the day when they rode the WinMo wave. The trick is in knowing when to jump off.
40. Re:So much for plan B... by HiThere · 2011-03-07 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  I wouldn't go as far as some, and claim that ALL deals with MS are expensive to the one making the deal, but there are a large number of cases where they have "stolen" IP of various sorts (though never trademarks) via either tricky contracts, or just outright. A small enough company doesn't have much hope in defending itself against MS. Even if they win, they lose. (The court damages never cover the real damages.) Several of these cases have made the news, and when one figures that most companies would rather hide this kind of damage, one has to figure that there have been a very large number of cases that one never heard about.
  But it is also clear that some companies have dealt with MS and prospered as a result. Dell is the best example that occurs to me of this, but it's far from the only one.
  *I* would never sign an MS contract. I switched from them when their EULA became unacceptable. This is unusual behavior, and one shouldn't expect it of most people. (Similar concerns at a somewhat later date caused me to find Apple an unacceptable vendor, also.)
  
  --
  
  I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
41. Re:So much for plan B... by hairyfeet · 2011-03-07 06:04 · Score: 2
  
  Uhhhh...You DO know the fed stopped him from buying Nokia and selling off his shares of MSFT under insider trading rules, yes? And that anyone who takes one of the high level positions in a company like CxO has to follow insider trading rules that only allow them to sell X number of stock per six months and IIRC not to buy ANY of the stock of the company they have joined for 6 months, too keep from having their knowledge affect pricing?
  If you want to blame someone for his stock situation blame the fed, as he already announced when he took the job we would be selling off his MSFT stock as fast as allowed and replacing it with Nokia since he believes in the company.
  And why is it everyone here would rather have Nokia dead than sell a WinPhone? They didn't hire a new CEO because it was Tuesday you know, they did it because they were bleeding to death and needed to do something NOW. Some will say they could have made MaeMo/MeeGo work, and this much is true if they would have picked one and trashed the others two years ago but they didn't and the infighting between the Symbian and MaeMo/MeeGo camps pretty much shit all over each other and the company.
  And as for Android? BWA HA HA HA HA...oh wait, you're serious? BWA HA HA HA HA HA! That market is BEYOND saturated! In a race to the bottom which is what Android is right now nobody and I mean NOBODY will pay the higher prices for Nokia handsets, not when most of the carriers are offering CCC (Cheapo Chinese Crap) running Droid for free for signing up (Hell a buddy got two for signing up. They aren't great but they work good enough) so Nokia would be left fighting for scraps with expensive hardware running a low end OS.
  Not saying anything is bad about Android, it is actually quite nice, but like PCs it IS in a race to the bottom ATM, with every retail store selling CCC phones and pads running the OS. And lets be honest folks, if you think the consumer don't know shit about X86 and have no clue when buying they know even less about ARM, and you'll find many are just looking at the pictures, which all look the same even on the boxes of CCC.
  So I think in the end this CEO will be given credit for doing the best he had with a shitty situation. The best bet Nokia could have done was snatch up Palm when it was on the market and fire the whole OS division and replace their OS with WebOS, but that ship has sailed. That left them with MeeGo (which go look up the hands on reviews and see how many times you read "unfinished" or "not where the others were a year ago" in the reviews) Symbian (which has more that hate it than love it) Android (over-saturated and in a race for the bottom) and WinPhone. Of these choices the ONLY one that would net them billions in advertising and engineering help was MSFT.
  Would you have rather they jumped head first into Droid and gotten nothing but a cutthroat market and a thank you note from Brin and Page?
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
42. Re:So much for plan B... by Dhalka226 · 2011-03-07 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  They sold the part that makes money and kept the part that costs money. I'm not sure how long that kind of arrangement can last, at least insofar as they actually plan to continue developing Qt.
  They may not be all in yet, but the pot odds are going to push them in before the end of the hand.
43. Re:So much for plan B... by the_womble · 2011-03-07 06:19 · Score: 1
  
  So they decided that having failed in the mobile market, they would tie up with MS who also failed, and the combination would be a winner!
44. Re:So much for plan B... by perlchild · 2011-03-07 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  Either that, or it's the new CEO getting rid of as much of his predecessor's legacy as possible(and since it's a sale, it looks like a + in the books) even to the long-term detriment of the company.
45. Re:So much for plan B... by jellomizer · 2011-03-07 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  You mean... But I'm the KDE user you insensitive clod!
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
46. Re:So much for plan B... by Raenex · 2011-03-07 06:26 · Score: 1
  
  They're not getting any cash : http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/15/debunk-elop-never-said-microsoft-is-paying-nokia-billions-of-do/
  
  That article is pure speculation. We don't know what Nokia is getting.
47. Re:So much for plan B... by Pausanias · 2011-03-07 06:27 · Score: 1
  
  You are kidding right? This was actually a takeover of Nokia by Microsoft. There is no "outside vendor."
48. Re:So much for plan B... by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2011-03-07 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  I doubt it's death, so much as transformation.
  Both can be right - death is a transformation as well.
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
49. Re:So much for plan B... by LurkerXXX · 2011-03-07 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  But Maemo was not. And they were just merging it with Moblin to make MeeGo.
50. Re:So much for plan B... by Carewolf · 2011-03-07 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  I am pretty sure the new CEO can get his old job at Microsoft back in case this one goes bust. So at least one person at Nokia still has his plan B.
51. Re:So much for plan B... by Curunir_wolf · 2011-03-07 07:13 · Score: 1
  
  One of capitalism's many problems...
  Why is it that people that rail against capitalism are steadfastly resistant to giving up all of their own capital?
  
  --
  "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
  --- Jerry Garcia
52. Re:So much for plan B... by maxwell+demon · 2011-03-07 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  I'm more concerned about the trolling that will result. How long before we see this cited in claims that there are no more than 3500 KDE users? ;)
  Well, that's what you get for using a TrollTech product. :-)
  
  --
  The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
53. Re:So much for plan B... by maxwell+demon · 2011-03-07 07:23 · Score: 2
  
  One of capitalism's many problems...
  Why is it that people that rail against capitalism are steadfastly resistant to giving up all of their own capital?
  Probably because giving up your capital doesn't get you out of capitalism. It only makes your position inside capitalism worse.
  
  --
  The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
54. Re:So much for plan B... by Curunir_wolf · 2011-03-07 07:44 · Score: 1
  
  One of capitalism's many problems...
  Why is it that people that rail against capitalism are steadfastly resistant to giving up all of their own capital?
  Probably because giving up your capital doesn't get you out of capitalism. It only makes your position inside capitalism worse.
  Oh, sure, it will get you "out of" capitalism. Just don't confuse capitalism with banking. "Capital" is just having a way to get food for dinner without spending your day gathering food. If you don't like that lifestyle, just give it up and live hand-to-mouth.
  All systems in the civilized world use capitalism. The question is should individuals be allowed to control their own capital, or just a few select individuals?
  
  --
  "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
  --- Jerry Garcia
55. Re:So much for plan B... by Dog-Cow · 2011-03-07 08:13 · Score: 1
  
  Only in your deranged little mind were MS and Nokia "enemies". Get over yourself.
56. Re:So much for plan B... by ThePhilips · 2011-03-07 08:14 · Score: 1
  
  Because now the shares are cheap. And gives more power to Elop.
  Nearing collapse, to avoid liquidation, to take Nokia over, MS would buy all the Nokia's shares. And during such takeovers the price normally is set slightly higher than the market one.
  P.S. The whole point of conspiracy theories is that they do not have to many any sense at all ;)
  
  --
  All hope abandon ye who enter here.
57. Re:So much for plan B... by erroneus · 2011-03-07 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  No, I didn't know that actually. The last I heard was as I stated. This is news to me.
  So whooops! I was wrong.
  Yeah, I would rather see Nokia going Android than Windows. Sure Nokia would be competing in a much more difficult market teeming with competition, but it's better than dying. Every Windows phone I have seen to date has sucked. Even "typical end users" found them intolerable.
58. Re:So much for plan B... by yacc143 · 2011-03-07 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  I'd argue that with Android they'd be able to at least put a Nokia branded UI and other enhancement into it. E.g. they'd be allowed to support Qt on Android (alternative execution environments are allowed, as long they follow the Android security model)
  With MS, they are not even allowed to keep Qt which is technically a rather sound cross platform environment. So anybody that has been listening to Nokia's roadmap the last years, is now assessing the bloddy spot on their back, ...
  Intel hears about it from the press. Well, with such friends you don't need enemies. Wonder what the new CEO does to enemies, if he treats his partners like that? Send extermination squads?
  Basically, Nokia just managed to commit suicide. They managed to piss off the developers, industry partners, customers, and what for? A phone monoculture with such strict hardware guidelines, that all WP7 phones look quite similar. And as some reviewers have commented, the current WP7 hardware guidelines are quite nice, well, compared to Androids from two years ago ;)
  So a company that is still big, but shrinking in relevance, bets on the weakest option, which forces it to back-stab it's own partners, and which gives it only tiny leeway to compete?
59. Re:So much for plan B... by yacc143 · 2011-03-07 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  You do realize that the hardware guidelines what is allowed and what not, for WP7 phones is so narrow that we've seen the whole range of "innovation" already?
60. Re:So much for plan B... by houstonbofh · 2011-03-07 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  Like HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, Sony ?
  All of those vendors also sell Linux devices. And all but Sony actively support Linux. If Redmond Washington fall off into the ocean tomorrow, they still have viable product, especially Sony. Nokia, on the other hand will have nothing.
61. Re:So much for plan B... by isorox · 2011-03-07 08:36 · Score: 1
  
  I'm more concerned about the trolling that will result
  What about the TrollTeching?
62. Re:So much for plan B... by Tolkien · 2011-03-07 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  Especially considering Nokia and Microsoft were direct competitors in the cellular phone operating system market. I would bet money that Nokia's new CEO never left Microsoft's payroll system.
  
  --
  how is babby formed?
63. Re:So much for plan B... by houstonbofh · 2011-03-07 08:44 · Score: 1
  
  In a race to the bottom, that leaves a nice niche at the top. Sure there is a bunch of cheap crap. There are also few very good phones that are not totally locked down (HelloMoto) and trapped. The point is that they dumped all the alternatives, and joined up with a very risky venture. The problem is that the normal panic war cry is too short. It is "We have do do something." It should be "We have to do something helpful."
64. Re:So much for plan B... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-03-07 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  Hardware guidelines mostly define the baseline, and can be higher. IIRC the only restriction on that is screen resolution, which is fixed at 800x480 (though app developers were already warned to expect a higher second option coming eventually, and should code their stuff accordingly). Oh yes, and ARM as an architecture. It seems to me that there's still a lot of leeway there if one wants to "innovate".
65. Re:So much for plan B... by houstonbofh · 2011-03-07 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  I doubt it's death, so much as transformation.
  Both can be right - death is a transformation as well.
  Death is also quite stable, a goal Microsoft is striving for with this. :)
66. Re:So much for plan B... by GooberToo · 2011-03-07 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  Kinda risky making your entire company totally dependent
  
  Yes and no. In publicly traded companies, perception is freqently more important than reality. From a public investor's perspective, showing you're fully committed to Windows rather than half in with hedged bets, can go a long, long ways toward ensuring investor confidence. That's not to say it necessarily worked, but chances are, that's at least part of the equation.
67. Re:So much for plan B... by theweatherelectric · 2011-03-07 10:57 · Score: 1
  
  Gee, hire MS drone, big surprise when he decides to "standardize" on MS software. Who could have predicted that?
  Nokia apparently talked to Google about using Android but the ultimate decider was that Microsoft was willing to pay them more money. In this section of Nokia's Q&A session at Mobile World Conference about three weeks ago, Elop claims the deal is a nett benefit to Nokia in the billions:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NRBtTz9p6A#t=13m1s
  Part of that deal is advertising revenue from Microsoft's search and maps (which will now use Nokia's maps) services.
68. Re:So much for plan B... by Grishnakh · 2011-03-07 11:38 · Score: 1
  
  Um, sociopaths generally ARE rationally self-interested, as a rule, and much more so than other people. That's the problem with them. The rest of us have morality, so if there's an action that we could do to benefit ourselves, but which will hurt other people, we generally won't do it. A sociopath won't consider the other people, so he'll just do it.
  Sociopaths who are smart tend to do very well in life, because they don't have to worry about that morality stuff slowing them down. So they rise up in society into positions of power: CEOs, politicians, etc. Other people allow this because they're too stupid or naive to see the sociopaths for what they are, and assume that they're regular people just like them (when they're not). Then, when in power, the sociopaths do things which benefit themselves to the detriment of society.
  (Sociopaths who are dumb usually become criminals and fill the prisons.)
69. Re:So much for plan B... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-03-07 11:41 · Score: 1
  
  Yes. That's precisely why free-for-all (i.e. libertarianism) doesn't work so well in practice - because unrestricted pursuit of "rational self-interest" can be detrimental to society as a whole.
70. Re:So much for plan B... by Grishnakh · 2011-03-07 12:03 · Score: 1
  
  The thing is, it does work for many situations. After all, that's fundamentally what a "free-market" economy is about: allowing all actors the ability to make their own choices, without an authoritarian government dictating to them what they can and cannot buy or sell. We've seen with the Soviet-style systems that these don't work at all. However, it falls down in a couple of places: 1) in government itself: sociopaths get elected to power (because they are power-seeking people), and then make decisions that benefit only themselves and not their constituents, and 2) in very large companies, where their bad decisions harm their companies, but because their companies are so large, this harms the entire economy instead of the slack being taken up by competitors.
  In both instances, the problem is size and power. With corporations that are too large and powerful, the entire free-market ideal breaks down, because there's not much choice for consumers, and the barrier to entry to the market is too high for potential newcomers. With governments, it's much the same: too much power concentrated with too few is damaging to society. The solution to me seems pretty simple: keep everything small. Small companies, small governments. Governments shouldn't allow companies to grow too large, because that screws up the whole system. Or, you can be like China and have a big government that doesn't have any elections so sociopaths can't get to power so easily by conning the population, and then have the government exercise strict control over the corporations to keep them from becoming a threat to the government's power. That seems to be working out pretty well for them.
71. Re:So much for plan B... by DrXym · 2011-03-07 21:12 · Score: 1
  
  Clearly you haven't been paying attention to Nokia's recent history. Idiot.
72. Re:So much for plan B... by tehcyder · 2011-03-07 21:27 · Score: 1
  
  If Redmond Washington fall off into the ocean tomorrow, they still have viable product, especially Sony. Nokia, on the other hand will have nothing.
  And if the moon collided with the Earth tomorrow we'd all be dead. There are some contingencies that you don't need to plan for. If Microsoft stopped making anything new today, they wouldn't exactly be filing for bankruptcy tomorrow.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
73. Re:So much for plan B... by tehcyder · 2011-03-07 21:31 · Score: 1
  
  One of capitalism's many problems is that corporations are run by capitalistic humans, and such humans concern themselves by definition with rational self-interest.
  That's not the problem, my dear, it's the point of it all ('sup USSR?).
  While you are correct that capitalism is based on self-interest (the "rational" part is begging the question) that doesn't mean it's the best system even if there were such a thing as pure capitalism. The failures of the Soviet system do not mean that no other economic system is possible.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
74. Re:So much for plan B... by tehcyder · 2011-03-07 21:41 · Score: 1
  
  One of capitalism's many problems...
  Why is it that people that rail against capitalism are steadfastly resistant to giving up all of their own capital?
  Why is it that staunch defenders of capitalism are so fucking retarded that they can't see the stupidity of their own questions?
  If Bill Gates and Warren Buffet gave all their money to the government tomorrow, it wouldn't cause the downfall of capitalism.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
75. Re:So much for plan B... by SilasMortimer · 2011-03-07 22:02 · Score: 1
  
  If Microsoft stopped making anything new today, they wouldn't exactly be filing for bankruptcy tomorrow.
  Until the shareholders found out and dumped all their shares.
  
  --
  Omnes tuae crepidines sunt nobis sunt. Ascendo tuum!
76. Re:So much for plan B... by SilasMortimer · 2011-03-07 22:15 · Score: 1
  
  All systems in the civilized world use capitalism. The question is should individuals be allowed to control their own capital, or just a few select individuals?
  Or many or all individuals?
  
  --
  Omnes tuae crepidines sunt nobis sunt. Ascendo tuum!
77. Re:So much for plan B... by Curunir_wolf · 2011-03-08 01:22 · Score: 1
  
  Why is it that staunch defenders of capitalism are so fucking retarded
  Oh, wow. Obviously the socialists have the better intellectual argument.
  Of course, socialism is a form of capitalism, too. It just shifts the control of capital to the government.
  
  --
  "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
  --- Jerry Garcia
78. Re:So much for plan B... by extraordinaire · 2011-03-09 12:09 · Score: 1
  
  Hence the reason we have the rule of law. We create laws that prevent sociopaths from doing things that they shouldn't. When in government, we have a balance of powers that prevents the Executive from screwing us over (when the Legislative and Judicial does its job), and visa versa.
  You cannot make the case that "smart sociopaths rise to power, thus become CEOs" and thus insinuate that capitalism is bad. There just isn't any justifiable case that can be made for it. The author that I responded to suggested that the Banking Crisis of 2008 was a result of corrupt CEO's, and it was. It absolutely was. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't have banks, and it doesn't mean that the government central banks (ECB, BCB, Federal Reserve) aren't just as corrupt, and just as harmful to the economy. It also doesn't mean we shouldn't have CEOs, because plenty of companies have powerful CEOs who do good things.
  The ultimate point that I'm making is that Nokia is free to do whatever they like. That's part of capitalism. If you want a government telling Nokia what to do, then you deserve the outcome that you get.
79. Re:So much for plan B... by extraordinaire · 2011-03-09 12:17 · Score: 1
  
  There is no example of free-for-all (libertarianism), nor does true libertarianism actually espouse an anarchical free-for-all. That's what MSNBC will tell you, but it's not the case.
  Libertarians respect the rule of law, but we also respect the rights of an individual to direct his own path. Hence, Nokia is allowed to do what it damn well pleases with Qt.
They sort of had to by tomhudson · 2011-03-07 01:51 · Score: 5, Informative

... while they still could. There was a "poison pill" in the QT acquisition

(For those of you who don’t know what it is, the KDE Free Qt Foundation is what we call a “poison pill” for Trolltech: should we ever stop releasing open source versions of Qt, the foundation is given the right to unilaterally release the last version of Qt under the BSD license.
So, why not get some $$$ while you can, right?
1. Re:They sort of had to by drinkypoo · 2011-03-07 02:07 · Score: 1
  
  What Does Poison Pill Mean?
  A defensive strategy used by a corporation to discourage a hostile takeover by another company. Poison pills are used to make the target company less attractive to the acquirer. There are two types of poison pills: (1) A flip-in allows existing shareholders (except the acquirer) to buy more shares at a discount. (2) A flip-over allows stockholders to buy the acquirer's shares at a discounted price after the merger.
  So definitely not a poison pill
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
2. Re:They sort of had to by S.O.B. · 2011-03-07 02:56 · Score: 1
  
  That was the definition when the concept was first created but it has been used in many other ways since.
  Now it is more generally a clause in a contract or agreement that ensures a particular behaviour or outcome by outlining the penalty if that condition is not satisfied.
  So in this case it is a poison pill.
  
  --
  Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
3. Re:They sort of had to by Verdatum · 2011-03-07 03:33 · Score: 2
  
  I wish all the people arguing about whether or not this constitutes a "poison pill" would just take the "red pill" and get out of my Matrix!
4. Re:They sort of had to by HiThere · 2011-03-07 06:09 · Score: 1
  
  What does that agreement say about the case where they start releasing versions that contain features patented by another company, but which they have an agreement with such that they won't get sued...but nobody else is protected? I'd bet that that counts as releasing an open source version, even if you don't dare use it.
  This was one of the considerations in the wording of the GPL3.
  
  --
  
  I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
5. Re:They sort of had to by tomhudson · 2011-03-07 09:55 · Score: 2
  
  What does that agreement say about the case where they start releasing versions that contain features patented by another company, but which they have an agreement with such that they won't get sued...but nobody else is protected? I'd bet that that counts as releasing an open source version, even if you don't dare use it.
  This was one of the considerations in the wording of the GPL3.
  That would still be a violation of the GPL v2, as it would be a restriction on downstream recipients ability to do anything they want with the code, including, but not limited to, distribution of the code and compiling and running it for any purpose whatsoever.
6. Re:They sort of had to by HiThere · 2011-03-07 13:10 · Score: 1
  
  I think it *should* be understood as you say. I'm not certain, however, that the courts would agree. Or that they would agree before seven years had been spent in a court battle.
  Besides, I'm not proposing that Noika would own the patents, so it might not be seen as the one doing the restriction. Particularly if software patents are invalid in Finland.
  
  --
  
  I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Digia by apodyopsis · 2011-03-07 02:00 · Score: 2

I assume Digia are after commercial licensing fees, service agreements and support contracts for Qt and will attempt to build up the user base.
Kinda sad to see Nokia vanish into a death spiral though. I really cannot see Windows based smart phones gaining traction against iPhone/Android unless they are really something special or are heavily discounted. I find the whole business tactic fairly incomprehensible to be honest, but I am assuming other people know more than me here.
Given Nokia's position what else could they have done to preserve the market share? Any Ideas?
1. Re:Digia by i-linux123 · 2011-03-07 02:09 · Score: 1
  
  "Given Nokia's position what else could they have done to preserve the market share? Any Ideas?" Assign more developers and resource so MeeGo. It seems they lost faith in MeeGo, or are strategically moving away from Linux. Ironically, the move caused the consumers to lose faith in Nokia.
2. Re:Digia by segedunum · 2011-03-07 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  They should have done what Google did - get a solid, working Linux phone OS built with a way of attracting developers and building apps. They had all the ingredients.
3. Re:Digia by a_n_d_e_r_s · 2011-03-07 02:40 · Score: 1
  
  They did that. It's called the N900.
  But early in they then dumped the linux distro called Maemo they had put on the N900 and merged it with Intels Moblin
  and that kinda stopped developers to make apps for the N900.
  So they mishandled it and didn't had a long term plan for it.
  
  --
  Just saying it like it are.
4. Re:Digia by recoiledsnake · 2011-03-07 02:46 · Score: 1
  
  >Assign more developers and resource so MeeGo.
  Yes, adding more resources to a project makes it go faster and smoother. /sarcasm
  
  --
  This space for rent.
5. Re:Digia by Asic+Eng · 2011-03-07 02:54 · Score: 2
  
  Randomly assigning more people doesn't help, I agree. However they could have assigned some engineers to code a new email client, maybe just clone the one for Android. The poor quality and clumsy interface of their email client caused complaints about Nokia smartphones for a long time - both on Symbian and Maemo. Email was a very important functionality for their customers, so they should have fixed that long ago.
6. Re:Digia by ErroneousBee · 2011-03-07 02:58 · Score: 1
  
  Yup, my finger was over the buy button when I switched tabs and saw Maemo was being merged and discontinued.
  
  --
  **TODO** Steal someone elses sig.
7. Re:Digia by i-linux123 · 2011-03-07 03:17 · Score: 1
  
  Even their Mail for Exchange was dead on arrival for most people, only those with dedicated Exchange 2000 and 2003 servers were able to use it, mine still doesn't sync all the time with 2007. The developer of it said "Blame me plz" (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35136) in 2009, what has happened since them? Absolutely nothing, and there's no trace of such a thing for MeeGo. Office suites would have also been great. They dedicated some resources to porting KOffice, and it was a half-assed attempt. I suspect they did this intentionally, though, so people would still buy their E-series business-class devices. The N-series is a multimedia device (Not that us consumers would care).
Re:They sort of didn't have to by segedunum · 2011-03-07 02:01 · Score: 2

Well, they didn't. They new about this arrangement when they bought Trolltech and I'd hardly call it a 'poison pill'. For all the work and testing that open source developers put into Qt it was always there to ensure that Trolltech played fair whilst still keeping their ability to create separately licensed versions on the commercial side. The arrangement has always worked very well.

I have no idea what Nokia expected to do with Qt to be honest.
Meego by cederlov · 2011-03-07 02:01 · Score: 2

Another nail in the coffin for Meego. At least from Nokias side. Lets hope Intel can carry the burden alone...
1. Re:Meego by i-linux123 · 2011-03-07 02:15 · Score: 1
  
  Surely they can. Only, they're more focused on tablets. I believe we the users are most interested in the power of the mobiles in our pockets. My concern is, what phones are we going to install MeeGo on? Because of Nokia's move, this probably means their phones will be locked to WinMo, and Apple is hopeless when it comes to unlocking anything. Those rare mobile devices that allow for installation of other OSes might become much saught after, but that's probably a niche. Supporting Android and hoping that Intel will somehow manage to get MeeGo onto phones, is our best bet for a bright future with pocket computers.
2. Re:Meego by drinkypoo · 2011-03-07 02:23 · Score: 2
  
  Surely they can. Only, they're more focused on tablets. I believe we the users are most interested in the power of the mobiles in our pockets.
  
  I'm personally concerned with having the same OS on handheld, tablet, and desktop. I don't want to maintain multiple software ecosystems.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
3. Re:Meego by juasko · 2011-03-07 02:33 · Score: 1
  
  Only now with nokia away megoo can fly!
4. Re:Meego by gbjbaanb · 2011-03-07 02:42 · Score: 1
  
  you're quite right - unfortunately Nokia appears to think that the single ecosystem should be .NET. If only consumers thought so too they'd be onto a winning strategy :)
5. Re:Meego by i-linux123 · 2011-03-07 02:44 · Score: 1
  
  Well, Microsoft doesn't give you any choice of support any other platforms anyway so I can understand why that could be a concern. I'm trying to view the direction we're heading it. Android is coming up fast, and MeeGo just fits well into my utopian vision.
6. Re:Meego by npsimons · 2011-03-07 03:24 · Score: 1
  
  I'm personally concerned with having the same OS on handheld, tablet, and desktop. I don't want to maintain multiple software ecosystems.
  Then you should have loved Maemo. It was pretty much Debian. While I haven't seen a Debian tablet yet, I do know that Debian Works For Me very well on my laptop, servers and smartphone, so that's two out of three.
  
  --
  Nathan's blog
7. Re:Meego by ChunderDownunder · 2011-03-07 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  with the convergence of ios and osx and android 3.0 for tablets, the future is largely 'single ecosystem'.
  Unfortunately for intel i can't see meego gaining much traction against those 2.
  A 3rd player needs a mini-Apple zeal in producing a focussed product delivery. HP? Their roadmap for webos looks promising and unlike nokia have concrete timeframes.
  Solution? Partner hp-intel. Webos dumps qualcomm and directfb for wayland and a powervr based soc like omap4. Powervr is also embedded in atom! So both companies benefit if said gpu gets the full freedesktop makeover. It's a chip earmarked by the fsf for fully open drivers.
  Webos gets Qt support (exiled devs from Nokia!) and upscaling to desktops running x86 chips from intel.
  Palm has a shipping n900 successor with a touchscreen ui where nokia's Qt efforts tanked. HP just need to assist in integrating legacy Gtk+ maemo apps, which if they use wayland becomes a piece of cake! the n900/palm pre ecosystems joining forces becomes a reality. Using omap even might woo a few beagleboarders.
8. Re:Meego by drinkypoo · 2011-03-07 12:03 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps we shall see an Ubuntu for handhelds. It's not inconceivable... Then we can have even more fragmentation
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Nokia did not sell Qt by rminsk · 2011-03-07 02:03 · Score: 5, Informative

Nokia did not sell Qt to Digia. They sold the Qt commercial license business to Digia. Digia will now sell Qt licenses to companies like Adobe or Google who want to make closed-source modifications to Qt. Development of Qt itself will remain inside Nokia. Nokia will continue to develop Qt.
1. Re:Nokia did not sell Qt by SpinyNorman · 2011-03-07 02:35 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, it sounds as if the bulk of Qt development will continue to be done at Nokia, but (other that having the Qt devs on their payroll) Nokia is now really in the same position as anyone else who chooses to continue to develop Qt under the LGPL... It seems they've sold the only piece that had any exclusivity to it - i.e. all that they really could sell having LGPL'd it.
2. Re:Nokia did not sell Qt by jrumney · 2011-03-07 02:48 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  So let me get this straight. They're no longer making phones that will use Qt. They no longer have a financial interest in other companies adopting Qt for use in closed source products. They are still letting their developers work on Qt on company time. Exactly how long do you think they are going to maintain this state of affairs, given the time that elapsed between the announcement of the adoption of Windows Phone 7 ("but don't worry, we're not abandoning Qt") and this announcement?
3. Re:Nokia did not sell Qt by oji-sama · 2011-03-07 04:15 · Score: 2
  
  Well... If I've understood correctly, they are going to be making phones that use QT for at least 2 years anyway?
  
  --
  It is what it is.
4. Re:Nokia did not sell Qt by Leonid99 · 2011-03-07 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  Nokia did not sell Qt to Digia. They sold the Qt commercial license business to Digia. Digia will now sell Qt licenses to companies like Adobe or Google who want to make closed-source modifications to Qt.
  What I don't understand is who is going to own the actual copyright for the Qt. If Nokia will, than they just effectively outsource the customers service to Digia and that's it. If Digia will own the copyright, it means they sold Qt to Digia.
  The reports seem to imply the former.
5. Re:Nokia did not sell Qt by ChunderDownunder · 2011-03-07 05:34 · Score: 1
  
  they 'hope' to continue selling Qt-capable symbian devices by the truckload until their wp7 offering is ready. With an already declining market share they'll have to cut into margins. i.e. Superior hardware against android oems.
  In short, nokia have 9 months, not 2 years. WP7 phones must be shipping in xmas stockings or they're doomed. iPhone5 will be out...
6. Re:Nokia did not sell Qt by oji-sama · 2011-03-07 22:30 · Score: 1
  
  Well yes, declining market share, but the amount of sold phones was still growing. Of course, perhaps this will change now, but I wouldn't say they are doomed because of iPhone5, considering the various price segments. Their high-end smartphone strategy may (will?) be doomed if they are late.
  
  --
  It is what it is.
Wow, that was fast by dingen · 2011-03-07 02:07 · Score: 5, Funny

So I guess when Nokia stated on their official blog that Qt would remain to play an important role in Nokia they actually forgot to add "...for about three weeks".

--
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
1. Re:Wow, that was fast by olliM · 2011-03-07 02:20 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I guess in the spirit of fairness you should also link to the qt blog post detailing this sale: Nokia and Digia working together to grow the Qt community
Little surprise as Microsoft is a QT competitor by pyalot · 2011-03-07 02:09 · Score: 2

Microsoft does their own UI framework, development suite etc. pp. and QT had the audacity to think they could do it as well, including cross platform support.

Naturally an alliance with Microsoft must include getting rid of Microsoft competitors, so little surprise there. Just confirms that whatever Nokia's gonna do, it'll not involve anything else then Microsoft approved "best" practices.

--
Experiments and other stuff
Digia makes Linux smartphones by Peter+H.S. · 2011-03-07 02:10 · Score: 1

Looks good from a QT/KDE perspective. Digia develops Symbian, and QT and MeeGo Linux smartphones, and have had a partnership with Trolltech.
Nokia is run by a bunch of bufoons. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-07 02:11 · Score: 1

Nokia is run by a bunch of money grubbing bufoons. I'm not even talking about anything that this story is about.
They idiocy started a long time ago and is mostly centered around their greedy executives. The company hasn't exactly been in a good position for years, yet the executives decide to move 300 of their executives from Dallas to Westchester county NY. The company was already laying off people and they move 300 executives to a place that cost 400-500% more to live and work.
Centering their phones around Windows? I wonder how much of a kickback their executives got in a kickback from Bill's boys to make that move.
Their executives don't seem to really care about the company, only getting what they can while they can.
If you own Nokia stock, I would recommend divesting of it asap.
1. Re:Nokia is run by a bunch of bufoons. by 1s44c · 2011-03-07 02:51 · Score: 2
  
  If you own Nokia stock, I would recommend divesting of it asap.
  I did at a small loss, not that I had more than a few hundred dollars worth anyway. From the look of the prices so did many other people.
  A few days later I was asked if I want to apply for a linux admin job for Nokia. I'm staying well clear of that one.
That's not what some Nokia folks say... by snookiex · 2011-03-07 02:11 · Score: 1

According to this blog entry by Christophe Joyau, "Head of Services Sales, Nordic and Baltic countries"

--
Open Source Network Inventory for the masses! Kuwaiba
1. Re:That's not what some Nokia folks say... by Alex+Belits · 2011-03-07 02:34 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah right.
  
  --
  Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
No they didn't by |DeN|niS · 2011-03-07 02:31 · Score: 1

What happened /., you used to be cool.
FUD much? No more stories about inaccurate (technical) reporting anymore from you then, pot kettle and all that.
Re:Free of Microsoft by juasko · 2011-03-07 02:40 · Score: 1

Why do you think Objective-c is horrid. I'm not much of a programmer but played with both C++ and Objective-c.
I find Objective-c and Cocoa quite pleasing.
I'm just asking I'm the noob here.
Not Cute by TooMad · 2011-03-07 02:42 · Score: 1

I just hope Digia stops insisting on calling it "Cute" the lady on the phone I talked to seemed offended when I called it "Queue Tee" and very pointedly corrected me.
But what does it mean for development? by starseeker · 2011-03-07 02:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

This is the commercial licensing side of Qt, *NOT* Qt. The major thing that will matter to the open source community is whether Qt will still be developed as a robust cross platform toolkit, not so much what happens to the commercial licensing business. Even Qt's future on phones doesn't concern me too much - the smart phone industry moving towards "app store" models and locked down platforms is a much bigger concern. (I'm just waiting for Apple to announce they're moving to an App Store model for all their desktop machines...)
Where Qt really shines is as a toolkit for graphical applications on the desktop. THAT's what ultimately concerns me - will the developers who have made Qt such an outstanding cross platform graphical toolkit will be allowed to continue their work as a paid, full time job? Never mind the phones, KDE and a vast array of non-KDE desktop applications that are important parts of the open source ecosystem rely on Qt (especially those that have to deploy on Windows). Would the commercial Linux vendors step in to keep the Qt devs programming, much as they have hired Linux kernel folk in the past? Libreoffice indicates they will act to protect key elements of open source, so fingers crossed. A statement along those lines would be reassuring, if they are in fact able and willing to fall back to that solution if necessary.

--
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
1. Re:But what does it mean for development? by sltd · 2011-03-07 07:35 · Score: 1
  
  Apple already announced an app store for their desktop computers. With OS X Lion, they're making it look a whole lot more like the iPhone/iPad.
Re:Free of Microsoft by gbjbaanb · 2011-03-07 02:47 · Score: 2

True, if only Nokia had thousands of people working on useful stuff instead of (obviously) drowing in bureaucracy, Qt would be a world-beater.
however, as its open-source, you'll find the Lighthouse project has already got Qt working on Android, and an Qt-iPhone project is making good inroads too.
Response from David Stone @ Qt by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-07 03:21 · Score: 5, Informative

Hi all
Here are a few points that might add clarity.
Nokia did not 'sell Qt'. It selected a partner to sell commercial licenses and support services, a task that is currently done by Nokia. Qt is offered under two licenses - commercial and LGPL - and the large (majority in fact) base of non commercial users are not impacted by this change.
The agreement lets Nokia focus on Qt for its core businesses, and ensures Qt commercial customers - mainly in the desktop and embedded space - are given top service by a company that has commercial Qt licensing at the core of its interests.
The development of Qt has not been sold or outsourced and is not impacted by this change. Nokia's commitment to advancing and developing Qt for all Qt users has not changed - it remains commited.
You can read some more details at http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/07/nokia-and-digia-working-together
Regards
David Stone
Communications Manager, Qt
1. Re:Response from David Stone @ Qt by elhedran · 2011-03-07 12:23 · Score: 1
  
  I used to work at Trolltech, and one of the strengths (at least back in 2002-2005) was how close development was to support. When I started devs had to spend one day a week doing support. It meant you got direct feedback from the people who used your code about what was the major areas that needed fixing, and trust me, you need at least some of that to avoid becoming an ivory tower, feeding that even via one support person muddies the view. Even when dev no longer did support directly when I was there I still kept an eye on the longer email chains to see if I needed to be more directly involved, to the point of initiating a teleconference with a customer in one instance.
  Now support isn't even in the same company.
  Now I'm outside the company, and I find that even before this announcement some of the trickier support issues just get ignored. I can't give too many specifics as I'm working for a commercial project, but I've done maybe 60K AUD billed hours of work on Qt that hasn't gone back into Nokia and doesn't even give feedback onto why I needed to to so anymore just because of how ignored I found even the fixes I provided were treated. Thats patches for bugs folks.
  Now support isn't even in the same company. Yes, worth repeating.
  So explain how Digia can give "Top Service" when they have to themselves negotiate to get any fixes they do into Qt. When they by definition don't employ the people who are developing the current features. Sure, they can re-read the documentation... but thats only the support that gets you started, I wouldn't call that "Top Service".
  The very fact that there is now an additional layer between Qt support and Qt Development is going to affect developing Qt. I can tell you though as an existing commercial licensee I do not find support a reason to renew my license with Digia, not in the slightest.
Re:Free of Microsoft by EmperorOfCanada · 2011-03-07 03:22 · Score: 2

I don't like Objective-C (after releasing 5 iPhone apps) because my code is useless outside the iPhone/iPad. Plus I have to use xcode which is yards behind eclipse and even Visual Studio. My dream would be to program in C++ once for multiple platforms and to have my choice of original development platform as well as IDE.. I am not a fan of Java plus it looks like Apple is going to keep putting shots into the head of Java so to do anything Apple means avoiding Java.
In any given month I maintain/develop in about 6 languages (if you count HTML/CSS as a language). So I am not against learning languages but I like my languages to be improvements such as my switch from perl to PHP. Not a step back to the early 90s. I My personal preference is C++ using a good framework like QT. Boost looks like it might be on my horizon.
I've seem something like this before. by Chas · 2011-03-07 03:43 · Score: 1

Qt-Gon Jinn: Do you hear that flushing sound?
Jar-Jar Nokia: *Nod*
Qt-Gon Jinn: That is the sound of you flushing your business down to toilet.
Nemoidian Ballmer: BRING ME NEW ASSMONKEY!
Jar-Jar Nokia: My fucked up! My fucked up!

--

Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Re:Free of Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-07 04:34 · Score: 1

Have a look at the Airplay SDK http://www.airplaysdk.com or MoSyncc http://www.mosync.com
Re:Free of Microsoft by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-03-07 05:21 · Score: 3, Funny

To paraphrase the old saying Objective-C is all the speed and familiarity of Smalltalk combined with all the safety and conciseness of C.
search terms = microsoft digia by Locutus · 2011-03-07 05:33 · Score: 4, Interesting

the results show Digia as a big Microsoft fan, supporter, customer, partner.

Watch Qt licensing and support fees to skyrocket to drive Qt out of the market. Nokia won't be implicated but that is probably the plan. Anything cross platform has _always_ been a threat to Microsoft and they have done everything legal and many time illegal to destroy these. Qt is a threat to Microsoft and destroying Qt also helps them hurt companies like Google and Adobe who base many of their tools and products on Qt. IMO

I figured this would happen but hoped it wouldn't. it sucks.

LoB

--
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
1. Re:search terms = microsoft digia by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-07 07:49 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Digia is just a quite generic Finnish integrator / consulting company with a large mobile division (relatively speaking) and some own products that they sell mostly domestically e.g Progress based ERP and mobile company phonebook with multiplatform support. They do partner with about any main stream software vendor like Microsoft, Oracle, IBM or Progress. I do not think they are particularly evil unless they got paid big time for being one.
  Strange think is that Digia bought QT licencing business as they do not have that much international businesses (especially outside mobile). I guess they got very good deal (close to free) while Nokia got out of a business that was not supporting Nokia's own goals. Think about 3500 customers that Nokia couldn't sell anything else directly.
  disclaimer, I used to work for Digia
2. Re:search terms = microsoft digia by Locutus · 2011-03-07 08:05 · Score: 2
  
  I knew a guy who ran a small consulting biz and once he signed to be a Microsoft "Partner" he could not accept contracts using competing tools. So when I see so many tags showing a Digia & Microsoft Partner program membership, it stands to reason they will not do good things with the cross platform Qt. Cross platform anything has always put a bullseye on it for Microsoft to aim at and take out. It started in the early 90s with cross platform C++ frameworks, moved to 3D OpenGL and kept going from there. Look at Borland, they were a dev tools company and that was about it but they were cross platform and court docs showed they were targeted because of that. Borland won in court but they're gone.
  
  Trusting Microsoft and Nokia in this is inconsistent with history. A very long history. Qt commercial is going to be killed off and Digia was given a sweet deal to be the ones to do it. If they're public, watch their financials over the next few quarters. IMO
  
  LoB
  
  --
  "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
3. Re:search terms = microsoft digia by Locutus · 2011-03-08 16:21 · Score: 1
  
  yo AC, but if or when they go too far into bed with MS, they must give up non-MS projects or they lose stuff from MS. Digia looks like they are willing to go all the way with MS and that does not do Qt any good.
  
  LoB
  
  --
  "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
This is a good thing, and horrible headline! by perrin · 2011-03-07 06:01 · Score: 1

Ever since the Qt acquisition by Nokia, Qt on the desktop has been neglected in favour of the latest shiny mobile thing. Now that commercial customers finally get someone to talk to who do not have years to catch up on their competition (and are understandably a bit busy), we might expect desktop features to move forward as well.
Granted, some of the things that is coming out of the mobile efforts also do greatly benefit the desktop side, but still, the focus has clearly been elsewhere.
Also, what is up with that grossly misleading headline, Taco? I haven't seen any others yet go that much overboard on the hyperbole on this. And this is part of a trend here that has been getting increasingly bad lately, with misleading headlines and submissions become more and more the norm. I've been with Slashdot since the beginning, but I think it is soon time to part ways...
So... by onemorechip · 2011-03-07 07:37 · Score: 1

they are finnished with it, then?

--
But, I wanted socialized health insurance!
1. Re:So... by indeterminator · 2011-03-07 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  To my understanding, they already finnished it when they bought it from norwegians.
He made Nokia's stock drop 25% on the 11th by Colin+Smith · 2011-03-07 09:35 · Score: 1

8.5 billion usd of value wiped off the market capitalisation just before he bought. Quite impressive.
Wouldn't have liked to be an existing shareholder though...
And still dropping... Good job!

--
Deleted
Re:Misleading by HiThere · 2011-03-07 11:22 · Score: 1

That doesn't seem to be what's happened here. Here they used a LESS emotional headline than was warranted.
What's actually happening is the Noika is removing all financial benefit to itself from Qt being successful, but is continuing to control development.
If your product depends on Qt, I think it's time for you to either sponsor a fork, or to switch your dependencies.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Free of Microsoft by juasko · 2011-03-07 21:21 · Score: 1

So is that a bad thing?
Smalltalk, is still refereed to as one of the true object oriented languages isn't it. And C is not bad either.
Re:Free of Microsoft by juasko · 2011-03-07 21:24 · Score: 1

Ok, I understand your point of view. Still C++ is supported by Apple, you can blend the two and only use Objective-c when really necessary.
Sold by AP31R0N · 2011-03-08 01:03 · Score: 1

If the sale is complete the headline should be:
Nokia sold....
If the sale is not yet complete but underway:
Nokia (is) selling....
If the sale has not started but will happen:
Nokia will sell....
Nokia to sell....
Nokia sells would be if it was something Nokia did habitually:
Nokia sells cellphones down by the sea shore. /sophomoric excuse making in 3, 2, 1....

--
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
communism... by mitzampt · 2011-03-08 05:44 · Score: 1

Don't be too rush to state that the Soviet model is flawed enough to be impractical. Most of the communism's flaws were from the way information and intelligence was handled, and for that matter pure capitalism doesn't really cut it either. I think neither freedom, nor dictatorship can, as core postulates, solve problems and sustain (business)systems when you discuss ways to make money, because even if you aggressively centralise planning and logistics, or aggressively decentralise all management people can not properly optimise and perform efficiently at work, no matter how you regulate information and intelligence. i believe that an organic approach based on fairness and well planned renewability as an ideology should be a good direction both in politics and business, and this type of policy can assure well regulated and efficient workflow. This "free-market" you are talking about allow simultaneous existence of both cvasi-anarchic FOSS and cvasi-dictatorial corporative environments. They both have huge advantages and disadvantages, so really you cannot (using curent ideologies, that is) praise, nor condemn Nokia's recent choices in business. They want better penetration of american markets and a powerful platform available fast that can comply with their intelectual property policies. That's what Symbian was before they open sourced it for lack of developer traction. They started toying with Maemo and later MeeGo in order to replace it, only to bump into the same policy problem that made development slow, and later to not consider Android as platform. They wanted to control their property better and still make money. Now they don't really need Qt, they'll sell it, it's users are almost used to it, as it happened before, and also FOSS world has plenty examples, so there won't be that much trouble. Notice how freedom to own and freedom to share can't mix up properly here. This is a giant deja-vu and proper renewable business model have both as an obstacle. Lack of choices versus lack of moderation. --- imma probably make smartphone apps based on ruby and GTK and someday people will buy it, if I do a fair job....

--
uhm...
They did not sell it... by RichiH · 2011-03-08 06:07 · Score: 1

...even the submitted blurb confirms this. Sheeesh.
Community stepping in. by DrYak · 2011-03-09 04:08 · Score: 1

KDE and a vast array of non-KDE desktop applications that are important parts of the open source ecosystem rely on Qt (especially those that have to deploy on Windows). Would the commercial Linux vendors step in to keep the Qt devs programming, much as they have hired Linux kernel folk in the past?
This indeed is really a probable scenario if the future of QT start to seem uncertain. It plays indeed a big part in KDE, for example, and KDE is already developed in part by paid-for developers working for commercial Linux vendors (Suse, among other).
Also, there were recently some idea, for the next generation of QT and KDE (5.x for both) to fuse the generic tool libraries of both kits, (just like there's a GLib which doesn't depend either on GNOME or GTK+, but is used by both). It was only an idea, but it shows that KDE could indeed step in and take a bigger chunk of the development of QT.
QT is also used in some declinations of MeeGo (handhelds, tablets and in-car computers. Only moblin-descended netbooks seem to be Clutter-based), either as QT/X11 or QT/Wayland. Intel, AMD, and - again - Novell/Suse are company still developing it even if Nokia ran away. Thus necessary QT development could also come from that direction.
Last but not least Google use it for cross-platform products. So they might also be possible contributions sources.
All-in-all, QT is just too interesting for too many people to be let down just because of Nokia's marriage to a new abusive husband.

--
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I feel sorry for the Trolls. by AbominousSalad · 2011-03-09 09:02 · Score: 1

I watched them drinking the Kool Aid in the comments after the "burning platform" memo... I couldn't believe their credulity when they were told Qt was still central to Nokia's business strategy. Most obvious lie ever, total non sequitur to the WP7 OEM contract and the cancellation of their next Linux smartphones. Seriously could not believe the Trolls were buying that crap, and now we find out Nokia was obviously negotiating this sale, or probably even finalizing it, at the very moment the Trolls were being lied to.

--
Every trollism an AC posts is prefixed, in my mind, with "A. Coward whined, in a weak and cowardly voice:"