Slashdot Mirror


Why We Should Buy Music In FLAC

soodoo writes "We have plenty of HDD space and broadband internet. Why don't we demand full CD quality audio in an accessible format from online music stores? The advantage of lossless compression is not only the small audio quality improvement, but better future-proofing and converting capabilities. FLAC is a good, free and open format, well suited for this job."

26 of 550 comments (clear)

  1. If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by kevinmenzel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, I'm not sure what's so complicated about this. It's not like CDs are that much more expensive than buying stuff electronically. Plus, you have a backup copy that's going to outlast whatever media you rip it onto anyway as long as you keep it physically safe. Plus you have the booklet that goes with it.

    1. Re:If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by stardaemon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even if you only want one song from the entire CD?

      --
      The only way to stay sane in an insane world, is to be mad yourself...
    2. Re:If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by loufoque · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But then you have to physically move the CD from some place to your place, which requires a distribution network and takes time. It's also costly to produce CDs.
      By simply requiring CDs, you restrict yourself to artists that have strong deals with distributors and enough money to produce them.

      Also, what the hell are you going to do with a CD once you have it but rip it? I don't even have a CD reader anymore. I don't have the room to store thousands of CDs either, and it wouldn't be a practical way to manage my music library.

    3. Re:If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by kevinmenzel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have pressed CDs from bands my high school friends were in, while they were in high school. It's not an expensive process... and doesn't at all require a strong deal with distributors...

      As to what I would do with a CD once I rip it... rip it again, should my online backup of my music hard drive fail when my music hard drive invariably does. My once-ripped CD will still be in perfect condition.

    4. Re:If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by JWSmythe · · Score: 4, Insightful

          You know, it really depends on the equipment.

          I was listening to some Pink Floyd several years ago (probably 10 years ago), and I had just set up a very nice sound system in my house. I heard things in the music that I'd never heard before. You simply miss out on systems that don't reproduce the full spectrum of sound. It could be a low rumble that's just felt, or a high pitched ting like a little bell.

            Most people's setups have significant gaps throughout the spectrum. There are professional disks to demonstrate it, but most people here can write their own software to generate tones sliding up the scale, from say 20Hz 20KHz. I recently did that for fun on my regular desktop, and noticed about 5 or 6 significant bands where the sound was barely reproduced by the speakers. I moved the machine to my theater room, and hooked it directly to the sound system. It had a few dips, but nothing so significant that I'd go pick up any new hardware.

          Consider where most people are listening to music. It's not in an expensive theater setup. It's on their iPod (or other portable device) with earphones, on their PC, or in their car.

          I enjoy my theater setup for watching movies, and being surrounded by all the sounds that were produced with it.

          I also listen to music on my "good enough" desktop speakers and in the car. Sure, I know parts are missing, and if I compare the output with the theater, I will notice the differences. So, I simply don't. Speakers large enough to fit in my ears aren't going to give an accurate recreation of the music. I listen to FM radio in the car. I enjoy the words, the beat, and know that the speakers in the car are in a harsh environment. Not only the extreme temperatures that the car interior encounters (about 15F to 150F), but there is significant interference with outside noises. My car is transportation, I'm not going to try to make it into a platform to recreate audio performances. Some people do. Some people spend an awful lot of money doing it. In the end, they can listen to music just as I can, except for the hours I'm in my car, and the difference in cost, I have a lot of money left over to spend on other things.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    5. Re:If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by jovius · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Having lossly compressed audio at hand might be plenty good enough, but it's not future proof. The data has had to be compressed because of unavailable media. It's a physical fact that those high end AAC's can't surpass CD quality (Because they are lossy). CD itself is getting old too, so the reference point is not really correct anymore.

      Formats that rely on removing inaudible frequencies or such psychoacoustics work perfectly in anechoic rooms or in headphone listening. When listened through speakers the frequencies take multiple routes to the ears at slightly different times, which makes the inaudible frequencies actually audible. So something is definitely missing from the fabric.

      I have refrained from bying music online because of the inferior quality. I'd like to hear music that sounds better along with the technological advances.

    6. Re:If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by paimin · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why doesn't TFA at least mention that Apple supports an open format that's also lossless, and also supported widely? Its a shame they don't sell it, but they do support it. Implying that they simply don't support lossless audio compression doesn't help sell FLAC as an option, it just makes you look like a liar.

      --
      Facebook is the new AOL
    7. Re:If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by wirefarm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Also, what the hell are you going to do with a CD once you have it but rip it?"

      Sell it used.

      --
      -- My Weblog.
    8. Re:If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by somersault · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You think a CD is more "indestructable" than having a backup or two of your music collection, which you will be migrating from storage device to storage device over the years? Also, storing masses of CDs/DVDs is just a royal PITA. Especially when it comes to finding stuff later. Or having to rip everything again later rather than just having a lossless digital copy.

      I have no qualms about downloading FLACs of any MP3s that I've already purchased, when I decide I have enough space to waste on such things. I think I'd have to have a portable media player with terabyte storage to be able to hold all my music in FLAC format..

      --
      which is totally what she said
    9. Re:If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by brusk · · Score: 4, Informative

      Adjusting for CPI, $14 in 1983 is about $31 in 2011. $20 today is about $9 in 1983 dollars.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    10. Re:If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Adjusting for CPI, $14 in 1983 is about $31 in 2011. $20 today is about $9 in 1983 dollars.

      1983 is a bit early to declare full market availability for CDs don't you think?

      I'd suggest a more reasonable date of 'availability' for determining the start of sales (and a price point) as the time when Middle school students are able to afford it on their allowances. That's where the target demographic starts for Pop music anyway (and those are the albums that follow the most common price curve).

      In short, 1983 might have seen CDs come into existence, but I would say that they really didn't take off as consumer items until ~1992.

      I don't know what the prices of CDs were in 1983, but If we go by your date, I do know that CD Players cost ~$2000 in 1983. Adjusted for inflation, that same player today would cost nearly $4,300. Obviously this wasn't the price which marks the true 'beginning'.

      $14 in 1992 would go to $22 (approx). Still higher, but the cost of production of CDs is VERY low today compared to then.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    11. Re:If you want CD-quality audio, buy CDs by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

      Also, what the hell are you going to do with a CD once you have it but rip it?"

      Sell it used.

      At which point you are required to destroy the original, as I understand it.

  2. Portable players by Xtense · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm a proud owner of a Rockboxed Sansa e250. However, if I kept the music I listen to regularly in FLAC, both the internal storage (2GB) and external microSD fall short. No, hotswapping isn't a good idea, especially if you're treating yourself to music going long distance. That's why I decided to settle for Ogg Vorbis - quality good enough that I don't hear a difference between the source and the compressed file (as proven by several long blind hearing tests), and file sizes that make my collection that much more managable.

    --
    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams [...]."
    1. Re:Portable players by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 5, Insightful

      FLAC wouldn't be for your Sansa; it'd be for your media library. You keep it on your PC and your backup media, and transcode that to Vorbis or MP3 or whatever for your portable device.
      Which is why they'd probably never go for it. A business model that is incompatible with DRM? Are you mad!?!?!?

  3. Seems fairly obvious why not by aarggh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Isn't the fact that it's "good, free, and open" the exact reasons the publishers wouldn't use it? It kinda flies in the face of them being tyrannical mongrels controlling the media distribution if customers can actually meaningfully use it.

    1. Re:Seems fairly obvious why not by Required+Snark · · Score: 5, Informative
      Online sources want to sell the same info to you as many times as they can. Obsolescence is part of their business plan.

      For example, Harper-Collens has put a limit on how many times a library can use a copy of an ebook http://ebooks.dreamwidth.org/32051.html The book can only be circulated 26 times before the DRM license runs out.

      This is outrageous and stupid. If possible, boycott all their products.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
  4. FLAC is bullshit by ZankerH · · Score: 5, Funny

    I tried converting my entire mp3 library to FLAC and couldn't hear any difference. It's just audiophiles circlejerking. I bet you all use golden audio cables and $500 cable stands, too.

    1. Re:FLAC is bullshit by Arancaytar · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey, that would work in Hollywood OS.

      "Enhance!"

    2. Re:FLAC is bullshit by greg1104 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wait, did you connect your computer to the network using a regular cable when you did the conversion? There's your problem. You need to use a good network cable or the bits aren't polished properly when you convert from MP3 to FLAC. You might think "but I didn't even use the network when I was converting". Doesn't matter--the audio bits leak out of there if you're not using the right cable.

  5. Re:Compatibility by Malc · · Score: 3, Informative

    Portable support is not the point. Being able to batch encode is. I've been ripping my CDs for years. When I gave up on the whole OGG Vorbis thing and went back to MP3, no problem. When I switched to iTunes + iPhone, no problem encoding to AAC. No decrease in quality transcoding from one lossy format to another. No doubt I'll want to re-enocde again in the future if there is an improvement in the encoders.

  6. Re:Gosh since when was CD quality quality? by mysidia · · Score: 3, Insightful

    CD sound is compressed and leaves out "unneeded" bits of audio because it had to be processed by very early and cheap computers. You might as well say MP3 quality. Lossless copies of a lossy media are NOT the holy grail of HiFi.

    No. That is incorrect. CD sound is uncompressed PCM; no bits are "discarded" except signal bits that were never sampled in the first place, due to the finite sampling rate, OR bits that were aliased due to distortion; all conversions to digital from analog require sampling. A frequency called the Nyquist frequency is defined to be half the sampling frequency of the digitally processed signal. It can be mathematically proven that aliasing can be avoided if the Nyquist frequency is greater than the maximum component frequency of the signal being sampled..

    CD audio 16-bit 44.1kHz; which should be lossless up to the Nyquist frequency of 22.05kHz -- for most humans, the audible frequency range is 0 to 20 kHz, so the only audible difference should be the possibility of certain audio artifacts; not due to any 'compression' or 'removal' of information.

    CD audio is not as good as the best possible DVD audio (24-bit 182 kHz)

    CD audio is also not as good as LP audio; where the LP playback is done with a high quality pickup cartridge, and the playback is pristine (no record scratches, dust, vibration, hum, incorrect turntable setup, etc).

  7. Re:Compatibility by walter_f · · Score: 5, Informative

    As to portable media players supporting FLAC:

    Sandisk (Sansa Fuze, Fuze+, Clip, Clip+)
    iRiver (B30, E100, E150, E200, Lplayer, P7, Spinn, S100)
    Archos (Vision 3, 24, 28, 32)
    Samsung (Yepp M1, YP-Q1, YP-Q2, YP-Q3, YP-R0, YP-R1)
    Philips (GoGear Muse)
    Sweex (MP470, MP480)
    Transcend (MP860, Tsonic 870)

    and last but not least,
    Cowon/iAudio (all of them)

    Prices:
    The most affordable player capable of FLAC (and Ogg Vorbis), the Sweex MP480 Vidi 8GB, from GBP 22 (ca USD 35) in the U.K.

  8. Proper Perspective by BlueStrat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From TFS:

    ...better future-proofing and converting capabilities. FLAC is a good, free and open format...

    We see here yet another case of mistakenly assuming a commonality of perception where history strongly suggests the opposite. The things listed above as features are actually perceived as bugs by the media distribution cartels.

    Strat

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  9. Rotational Velocidensity by bmo · · Score: 4, Funny

    I have a PhD in Digital Music Conservation from the University of Florida. I have to stress that the phenomenon known as "digital dust" is the real problem regarding conservation of music, and any other type of digital file. Digital files are stored in digital filing cabinets called "directories" which are prone to "digital dust" - slight bit alterations that happen now or then. Now, admittedly, in its ideal, pristine condition, a piece of musical work encoded in FLAC format contains more information than the same piece encoded in MP3, however, as the FLAC file is bigger, it accumulates, in fact, MORE digital dust than the MP3 file. Now you might say that the density of dust is the same. That would be a naive view. Since MP3 files are smaller, they can be much more easily stacked together and held in "drawers" called archive files (Zip, Rar, Lha, etc.) ; in such a configuration, their surface-to-volume ratio is minimized. Thus, they accumulate LESS digital dust and thus decay at a much slower rate than FLACs. All this is well-known in academia, alas the ignorant hordes just think that because it's bigger, it must be better.

    --
    BMO

  10. Re:"CD quality audio"? by kasperd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let's assume the producer has a master in 96kHz 24bits stereo, and you have audio hardware capable of playing that. Which of the following two options for distribution would you prefer?

    Master is downsampled to 44.1kHz with the best possible filter to avoid aliasing. Then the samples are scaled and rounded to 16 bits, with a scaling factor carefully computed to give the best possible SNR. And you get this result on an audio CD or using a lossless compression like FLAC.

    Alternatively you can choose to get the 96kHz 24 bits stereo sound compressed with a lossy compression (ogg, mp3, or anything you choose) at a bitrate of 1Mbit/s.

    Which of the two would you choose? There is no doubt the first of the two options will give the best audio quality if your hardware is somehow limited to 44.1kHz 16 bits. But if your audio hardware can do better than that, I guess the second option will give better audio quality at one third the bitrate.

    If you are optimizing for best possible sound quality, you have to know your constraints. Depending on the constraints you will get different result. If your only constraint is the actual hardware from the D/A converter to the speakers you will get a completely different result from when you are constrained to a certain bitrate but can choose audio hardware as you like. You'll get yet another result if you are constrained by cost of the hardware to do the playback.

    --

    Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
  11. Re:Compatibility by hazydave · · Score: 3, Informative

    The big issue with FLAC isn't just player compatibility, but storage. I have a few 24-bit/96kHz FLAC-encoded albums, averaging over a gigabyte each in size. Unless you're using one of the hard-drive equipped Archos devices or something similar (if anyone else uses HDD anymore), you're not going to keep many albums on your player this way.

    You're also probably listening via earbuds, maybe some better cans if you really care, but still... there's not that much need for the higher quality on a portable device. Unless you're using a Cowon device, you may not have the audio chops in the device hardware needed to get much better sound out of these files, either. But it's nice to know you can play that latest HDtracks download without the need to transcode.

    And for those living in the 21rst century (dedicated audio players being so 1990s), FLAC is also supported in many Android media players.

    --
    -Dave Haynie