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IPad 2 Teardown Shows Tablet's Guts
alphadogg writes "Apple's iPad 2 tablet, which became available Friday, boasts a big battery, tiny speakers, an ample 512MB of RAM and a glass front that's tricky for tinkerers to take off. That's the upshot from an initial teardown of the new Apple tablet by iFixit, which specializes in Apple product repair. IFixit warns that those who dare to peer into the insides of the iPad 2 on their own risk cracking the glass front panel, which is thinner than that from the original iPad (0.62 mm vs. 0.85 mm) and glued on rather than attached via tabs. A heat gun was needed by iFixit to disassemble the device."
This is not a fucking hobby project. This is a retail device, sold for profit. You are NOT encouraged to take it apart. This entitlement attitude of being able to reverse engineer everyone elses IP is starting to piss me off.
Sounds a lot like an iPhone 4 and the Macbook Air. I work for an authorized Mac sales and service center; our Mac specialist had to use a heat gun to take the screen/glass off on a Macbook Air. Research for the iPhone 4 returns similar needs.
Like the article says, a heatgun did the trick.
The thing with courier is that, whilst I agree it was a great form factor, it didn't actually exist. It was all talk - no shippable product. So for all the flaws that may exist in Apple's vision of the tablet form factor (or the Android ones for that matter) at least they actually exist - they're real, they work and they are being sold today.
Courier looked as though it was years away from even being thought of as a real product, let alone being sold to people in the real world
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4216/apple-ipad-2-gpu-performance-explored-powervr-sgx543mp2-benchmarked
and their review helps as well http://www.anandtech.com/show/4215/apple-ipad-2-benchmarked-dualcore-cortex-a9-powervr-sgx-543mp2
The key items to take away from both are, yeah the cameras suck but this is truly a real upgrade from the iPad. Performance alone puts is ahead of the older model as well as many available tablets. They did find out that the dual core processor is actually running at only 900mhz. While the Xoom pushes more pixels because of its 1280x800 versus 1078x768 the iPad2 pulls far ahead of it, beyond what the pixel count would account for. As for gaming, some games are already taking advantage of the new power, Infinity Blade has been updated and looks fantastic. This brings up the issue, will there be apps sold that are marked iPad2 required?
Better yet, its cheaper than its nearest competition. The only question is, how long before really good Android tablets come along?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Is there any other more natural feeling tablet? It would be much better than the usual ones. Since all the Android devices are quite much clones of each other, I hope someone uses this to their advantage and makes a device like Courier. Or Microsoft should continue their project. It's really interesting anyway.
Considering MS won't release a competitor to iPad and Android tablets until Fall 2012, producing a working Courier product for MS might be a daunting task. Remember MS never showed a demo of Courier. Everything that was released a mockup of how they wanted it work.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
As for natural feel....cavemen were writing on tablets tens of thousands of years before books were invented. How about scrolls? Even those are more durable than 'books'....
When iPad 3 or iPad 4 has a retina screen with an even faster processor, speech recognition (along with longer battery life, thinner, lighter...) it will be even more durable.
"ample 512MB of RAM"??
Realy?
Boy. THAT was a lame article. It was, word for word (except where they doubled up on the same sentence twice) everything stated in the iFixit video. This guy must a spent a LOT of time copying off other people's tests.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
OK but.... wirelessly sending the movie form your iPad to your hi-def TV is decidedly more cool and useful.
Something like this maybe? I saw another one as well that was targeted at universities as textbook readers, etc.
Have you ever seen somebody watching a two hour movie on ipad? It's a sight to behold. TWO HOURS of holding it in your one hand.
Have you ever seen somebody watching a two hour movie on a laptop? It's a sight to behold. TWO HOURS of holding it in your two hands. Or someone reading a book. Hours and hours of never moving or shifting and just keeping that thing suspended at arms length the entire time. ;)
tablets do not function as a useful tool except for the guys who scan your creditcards with a handholding device (and for similar purpose). But who am I to reason with retards, fucktards and fanbois?
You're right. And 15 million people who've bought an iPad are completely wrong. And the millions more who bought/may buy Android tablets. Why can't these people see that tablets is ill suited to your needs and thus they should never get one?
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Yep, my flatmate did this even though he was sitting in front of his 40" TV, and has HDMI out on his iPad dock..
which is totally what she said
TWO HOURS of holding it in your one hand.
One hand?
Exactly what kind of movies were these people watching?
Have you ever seen somebody watching a two hour movie on ipad? It's a sight to behold. TWO HOURS of holding it in your one hand.
You know you can hold it with two hands...unless you're watching porn. If the people you saw were watching porn then I guess that was a sight to behold.
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
In fairness, I know a lot of people who have bought ipads and now don't know what to do with them once they've gotten over the whole "it's cool" factor.
Tablets don't really replace anything or particularly bring anything new to the world. I've been tempted by getting an android tablet for watching films in bed, though. Can see it being useful for such but again, not a new thing.
Why the main article this summary is about is not linked is beyond me...
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-2-Wi-Fi-Teardown/5071/1
so this is why ipad2 is so cheap. tiny 512mb ram. and shitty cameras. no wonder samsung is finding it difficult to compete with its 1gb ram tablet with a 2mp front cam and an 8mp rear cam, 1080p recording, dual core graphics, dual core cpu.
only steve jobs suck-ups can call 512mb ample.
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
The more book-like reader was the Kno.
I don't think it's undoable. While the whole dual screen was interesting, the machine was a combination of ideas. The first is the dual screen movement. Using one side for navigation, and the other as a work area.
What the Courier needed was its ideas incorporated into Windows Metro. Metro should be able to do all the stuff courier could, like scan documents quick, have applications that you can scribble on with your finger, then take a picture on it, record video or voice and have it as one work area note, similar to the Memo Note (iOS app). And the CORE cool thing that Windows can do that no other company can is to treat any Windows PC as a secondary screen.
Now that would be a value proposition. Except Microsoft can't even come out with copy and paste on time.
What percentage of those 15 million people had genuine needs to be fulfilled by the iPad, researched it and similar products, comparing specifications and capabilities, before finally deciding that it would provide the most value to them?
...and copy the sleek design to create a product that is equally appealing to the eyes and twice or three times as powerful?
We have these things called 'stands', which you lean the tablet up against.
Both hands free! With a tiny bit of creativity, one could also use a desk, table, or wall in such a way as to act as a stand as well.
Around 50 years ago we also invented these things called 'keyboards', and while you need a specific type of keyboard that has only existed for about a decade to connect it to a tablet, these keyboards do provide a better experience with massive data input.
For iPad specifically, there is a tiny adapter you can buy with a USB port on it.
For Android tablets, they typically come with a USB port on the side, though you might still need a mini-to-usb-A adapter depending on what port it has built in.
Then you can use any keyboard invented in the last 15 years or so.
I realize you personally don't care, but this is for others who might read and believe what you have to say.
If you are going to buy a product without really having a purpose for it, that's on you. It doesn't mean that others bought it with no use intended. Personally I've seen people buy very expensive computers and only use it for a few months because they were excited to get on the Interweb. I haven't bought a tablet because I don't feel right now that the expense is justified. I could see how I would use it though. I see it primarily to replace laptops for basic usages like web surfing, email, etc. I don't see it replacing laptops to do serious work like proposals, coding, etc. At least not yet.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
And they're asking several hundred dollars for it? How stupid can people get?
As a long time Linux programmer and user whose only Apple purchase was an 80 gig iPod a few years back, I was skeptical about the iPad, but after extensive research into the Android tablets, I finally decided to give the iPad a try. I own a Google Nexus One Android phone and was really hoping for a decent Android tablet, but they simply don't exist yet. Every single one has some sort of flaw or missing feature, although the Moto Xoom looks to be a competent offering, once it's tweaked and polished and the prices come down a bit.
I have found the iPad to be a beautifully designed, well engineered best-of-class portable computer. Its battery life is outstanding, the user interface is smooth and natural, and it is incredibly convenient.
I fly a lot, and even a small laptop is a pain to use in a cramped coach class seat, whereas the iPad in combination with a $30 leather portfolio case that lets it stand up in various configurations plus a wireless keyboard is just about ideal. It works with all my Google services--email, docs, calendar, contacts--about as well as on an Android handheld, and it does audio Skype phone calls, and the book reading software is adequate. Apple Pages is a pretty decent word processor. Eventually, my 6-year-old will inherit this unit when the really good Android tablets come out, and already she's addicted to the touch interface and the colorful paint and animation games one can download.
I returned it within 14 days because the iPad 2 had just come out, and now I have to wait like everyone else to upgrade, but I don't regret my purchase for a minute.
The touch tablet concept proved its value first with the Palm and iPod/iPhone products, and so a larger tablet was merely a logical migration, not a revolution. And yet it feels revolutionary, because suddenly I use a computer for a lot of things that I never would have done before. It fits easily and neatly on my exercise machine, for example, so I can read or watch videos while working out. It slips into a backpack or satchel very easily and is about as thick as a pad of paper, so it's almost an afterthought to bring it along to work or trips or events (but keep an eye on it!). I use it to read in bed, or watch videos late at night--also dangerous, because my eyes are getting tired from all the close-up focusing. I find myself reaching for the tablet rather than the laptop when I want to look something up, because it's simply easier and quicker, even without a mouse or full travel keyboard.
By the way, the iPad's keyboard is surprisingly not bad to touch type on in landscape mode. I write stories in my spare time, and I have found I can type almost full speed--when I miss a key, the auto-correction often fixes it, although you need to be careful because it will auto-complete to the wrong word occasionally. The thing doesn't totally keep up with my typing, actually, and I'm hoping the iPad 2's increased CPU power will remedy that.
Everyone screams about Flash missing from the iPad. I would agree that it's better to let the consumer choose, but really I have found it's a non-issue with the iPad. I have watched videos on WSJ, Yahoo, CNN, and a few other websites with no problem. The Youtube app works great, as does the Netflix app (both free). In fact, it's the best way for me to watch Netflix streaming video, since I don't own a Windows PC (hitherto, I watched Netflix in a VirtualBox Windows session but it's not ideal). On my Android phone which of course has Flash, I find it's mainly good for seeing fancy animated ads on websites.
It's nice that after installing some iPod compatibility software from the Ubuntu software dialog, I could plug in my iPad to my Ubuntu laptop and explore the file system. I could also run iTunes from a VirtualBox WinXP session to do fancier sync'ing.
Undoubtedly, by Christmas '11, there will be a plethora of highly competent Android tablets in the $200-$300 range that have all the features left out of the Apple products--Flash, MicroSD card expansion, USB
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
The problem with everything you said is your basic assumption that 15 million people would do exactly as you do. They're not you. Some people might have said "ooh shiney" and bought one. The vast majority of people I see that have them are using them. Some are playing games. Some are watching movies. I saw one person showing some data to his boss and his boss slicing through the data. I've seen one used at a 10K run where the company in charge of tracking the runners was using it to show runner their times and splits. Now they could have printed all of that and posted on the side of a van or something but the owner told me having the iPad meant he could carry two less things: a printer and paper.
As for comparing specifications, iPad competitors have started to be released in the last six months; however many people consider only the Xoom to be the first serious competitor. As far as research goes I think it would have been quite simple. There was the iPad which they could get easily and other products which had negatives and they couldn't really get.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Hey, Spaniards sold mirrors to native Americans and charged them all the gold, just because mirrors were shiny. Notice any similarity?
So you're telling me ignorance is bliss? Of course, for apple. "15 million are completely wrong"? Perhaps you should ask all Hitler followers before trying to convince us with statistics.
Your logic is flawed, but many people will buy into the iPad because it's shiny and "cool", not because it has an actual functionality. And because many don't know what they want.
I started counting a couple of stories back, this is the sixth first post defending Microsoft that devxo has posted in the last three days.
The other five are:
1
2
3
4
5
Liking Microsoft products is one thing, but keeping tabs of every story and writing a multi-line first post for every other one, well that looks like a real job to me. I wonder how much Microsoft pays him. Does he get overtime, considering all this was done in a weekend?
While it is true that desktops and laptops need more than 2GBs of RAM to even run an OS such as Windows. The iPad can get away with 512MB of RAM is due to the fact that the OS and the apps aren't as big as Windows or Windows programs. 512MBs is alot of RAM considering what the iPad is and what it can do.
NSFW
im by no means a fanboy. I dont own an iDevice and i never will, because i prefer the alternatives
With that said...
If devs can write software that uses resources efficiently 512MB just might be plenty. Just because desktops take advantage of hexcore processors and 16GB of RAM doesnt mean a tablet should too. Additionally, it could be an energy saving measure. Im no expert on the matter, so i'd have to ask do higher capacity RAM chips consume more energy?
Are you aware that on Android, apps are limited to 24 MB each? I've no idea what the limit is on iOS, but I can't see why 512 MB wouldn't be plenty.
Sorry to burst your applesauce bubble, but 512mb ram is hardly ample in 2011.
Thanks for the valuable info. Without your wisdom, how would I know that the 256MB RAM on my iPad 1 was so pitifully inadequate?
On other systems, users would know that they had inadequate RAM due to the usual symptoms (machine slowing to a crawl, errors, crashes) but Evil Apple has conspired to ensure that these rarely happen on the typical iPad, fooling customers into think that, because their device runs perfectly, they have adequate RAM.
The rascals! I feel soiled.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Sorry to burst your applesauce bubble, but 512mb ram is hardly ample in 2011.
Depends entirely on the device and what you are using it for. There are plenty of devices in 2011 for which 512mb is a huge amount of RAM. Just because you can put more memory in a device doesn't mean it is needed. Comparing the iPad hardware to a desktop/laptop computer is pretty much pointless because they run very different software and are used for different (if sometimes overlapping) purposes. The fact that my desktop PC has 4GB of RAM has means absolutely nothing with regard to how much is appropriate in a tablet PC.
In the end, you know an expensive piece of tech like this should have at least double, if not quadruple that ram
Maybe you like throwing money at hardware you are never going to use but personally I'd rather it have exactly the amount I actually will use. Anything more is a waste of money and resources. That extra memory is not free. When you can actually point to a specific use for that extra memory then (and ONLY then) will I concede the point. But right now your argument is basically that because it was technologically possible to put more memory on the device they should have.
Disclosure: I don't own an iPad nor do I plan on it anytime soon.
The vast majority of people I see that have them are using them.
How many people continue to carry something they never use? Maybe you see people who own one but leave it on the computer desk?
I've been tempted by getting an android tablet for watching films in bed
Why not put a TV in the bedroom?
And maybe millions of people buy computers and leave them to collect dust at home. I don't know. But the implied assumption was that many of the 15 million units are just sitting idle and they don't serve some sort of need and were not purchased for a need. I see lots of them where I go. So in my sampling they are being used.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Good thing we have facts.....
http://www.mediabistro.com/thinkmobile/study-shows-ipad-usage-increases-over-time_b8613
Your logic is flawed, but many people will buy into the iPad because it's shiny and "cool", not because it has an actual functionality. And because many don't know what they want.
Your logic is that since you don't have any use for it no one does. Thus everyone is you.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
"Have you ever seen somebody watching a two hour movie on ipad? It's a sight to behold. TWO HOURS of holding it in your one hand."
No. One-armed people get creeped out if I stand watching them for two hours.
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Truth mod me up, fanboy mod me down..
Old martyr meme is old.
-- Using the preview button since 2005
And you just couldn't wait another second because...?
You are welcome on my lawn.
Does it make it harder to repair...yes. Do modern devices like this need as much repair (I bet the p(95) MTTF is incredibly high)...no.
You know the lights in the corridor between terminals B and C at O'hare--a artistic marvel--are held up by structural adhesive.
I love how all the fanbois are crawling out to insist that "ample" and "adequate" are synonyms.
You're missing three key things.
1. The 512MB of memory is incorporated on the A5 chip, along with a dual core CPU and GPU. It's a system on a chip that's estimated to cost a mere $28.90. The true magic in iPad is the hardware engineering -- it's all about providing the best user experience on dirt cheap hardware. For the first time in mass market history, the case (including display) costs more to manufacture than the computer it contains.
2. iOS is a compact mobile OS that runs on homogeneous hardware. There are essentially only two different hardware options. Developers know with absolute certainty how their apps perform when they ship and don't need to overspec hardware requirements -- if it runs sluggishly, they need to recode it. Period.
3. Nearly everyone who owns a computer isn't a computer user. They've never compiled code in their lives and haven't got a clue how their machines work. They're not hard-core gamers, either. They just want to connect with others, write a few letters, surf and play cheap games. They don't need a quad core machine with 16GB of RAM and a few terabytes of drive space for that.
What percentage of those 15 million people had genuine needs to be fulfilled by the iPad, researched it and similar products, comparing specifications and capabilities, before finally deciding that it would provide the most value to them?
According to return rates, 2% of iPad buyers and 16% of Galaxy Tab buyers (though there far less of them).
Sorry to burst your applesauce bubble, but 512mb ram is hardly ample in 2011.
Truth mod me up, fanboy mod me down. In the end, you know an expensive piece of tech like this should have at least double, if not quadruple that ram... its 2011, don't forget that.
Ahh, the passion of youth. The unadulterated joy of believing that the new way is the best way, that nearly a million years of human history can be shoveled under the Pergo flooring with nary an afterthought. The exuberance that comes from a knowledge base spanning months in time.
Get over it kid, people have been running entire rocket systems on much less than 512 MB RAM. It's a limited appliance designed to do a couple of things well. Running Crysis isn't one of them. Sorry to bust your nihilist bubble, but Apple is laughing all the way to the bank.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Whatever happened to 640K should be enough for anyone.
Are you aware that on Android, apps are limited to 24 MB each? I've no idea what the limit is on iOS, but I can't see why 512 MB wouldn't be plenty.
The 24MB limitation probably isn't what you think it is - native libraries and allocations from them are not restricted that way, and most resource-intensive apps (games) tend to have large native components.
And you just couldn't wait another second because...?
He wanted something useful right now?
Because in another second a decent Android tablet still won't exist. Maybe a decent one will exist in a few months, maybe it won't. But the excellent iPad 2 is out right now.
Are you aware that on Android, apps are limited to 24 MB each?
He may not be aware of that, because they're not.
The stock Froyo browser uses 35 MB on my phone just after startup, Opera Mobile the same, and Firefox 43 MB. Each of these can easily hit the 100-150 MB territory when viewing websites with multiple tabs open. Unfortunately, my phone despite claiming to have 512 MB of memory, makes only 338 MB available to the operating system. With no "active" applications and very few widgets running, the base system uses approximately 180 MB of that, making approximately 158 MB of memory available to applications. Which is unfortuantely dangerously close to the threshold for an OOM condition when viewing multiple web sites.
I use Opera Mobile as my preferred browser (it has a very fast renderer, kudos to the Opera team for making a very efficient cross-platform mobile browser that's very slick). With it, I was very frequently run into an OOM condition when opening a second tab from Google News to a Washington Post article. It was rather annoying, and made me avoid reading things from the Washington Post, although they've recently modified their site and it doesn't cause as many OOMs as it used to. I doubt other browsers are any better in this regard, other than sites are more likely to recognize their user-agents and present a trimmed down mobile version.
Furthermore, if I'm browsing a website and pull up Google Earth or something, the browser gets killed due to insufficient memory. That's fine, that's how Android is supposed to work, and reopening the browser and pulling up the previous page in history works fine. Although it would be a bit better if Opera automatically loaded the previous page.
My previous phone only had 256 MB and had a similar problem. Roughly 100 MB or so of that was "left" for user applications. So while the amount of memory in phones is growing, thus far it has barely kept up with application demand. Fortunately, there are some Android phones coming or already out this year with 768 MB memory (HTC ThunderBolt, Inspire) and even 1 GB (Motorola Atrix). Assuming that newer versions of Android and its skins do not take up significantly more memory, this should make something like 414 MB and 670 MB available to user applications. Which I think is the sweet spot for allowing heavier applications the freedom to use as much memory as they really do need, and allow the user to make good use of multitasking.
Now, granted, the amount of memory "preconsumed" varies across devices and manufacturers, and there's probably plenty of tricks for stripping down a carrier install of Android to make it more memory friendly. This is just my out-of-box experience with a relatively popular 2010-generation Android device. I don't believe it's far off from others.
But who am I to reason with retards, fucktards and fanbois?
Nearly their equal?
The primary functionality of the iPad is moving money from the consumers' pockets to the manufacturer's. This a characteristic shared by virtually all luxury items, regardless of who the manufacturer is. Challenging others' use of discretionary income definitely earns you the first two of the three epithets.
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
I don't really like the normal tablet style of iPad. I mean, it works I guess, but people are more used to holding books. I got interested in tablets after I saw Microsoft's Courier, but it looks like they cancelled it.
Correction: You can't cancel what never was. The Courier was never a serious project; it was merely a way to counteract growing Apple tablet rumors.
Is there any other more natural feeling tablet? It would be much better than the usual ones. Since all the Android devices are quite much clones of each other, I hope someone uses this to their advantage and makes a device like Courier. Or Microsoft should continue their project. It's really interesting anyway.
And entirely impractical in terms of battery life, weight and cost. That's one of the very many reasons it could not have been a serious project in the first place.
;-)
We just all grew up with dead-tree books. That's why we, quite naturally, want to hold something in a familiar form-factor. But there is almost no advantage in the dead-tree-publishing world taken of that form-factor. In other words, information on each page is almost without exception simply a linear presentation of the data. Once in a great while, you will see a book take advantage of a two-page "spread"; but those are pretty rare instances that are more than made up for by the many, many advantages of electronic reading devices, not the least of which (he says, being over 50) is the ability to make print larger. Plus, color publishing is no longer a truly premium-price publishing choice, etc, etc. Not to mention that, when reading in bed, that "fold-in-the-middle" habit of books is actually quite annoying to have to constantly deal with. And, as I said, any two-display device would be horrendously heavy, costly, and expensive. There's a reason you haven't seen "Courier-like" tablets. They simply aren't practical.
In other words, stop being bound (no pun) by the familiar. It's a new day for publishing. Get with it, or GTFO.
The more book-like reader was the Kno.
Horrible site. Looks like a Hax0r site.
I stopped watching the instant the STYLUS came out.
People buy jewelry or Rolex and brands just to look cool, still, no actual functionality. And those are more than 15 millions. Diamonds have no actual usefulness on a ring, they are not used to cut something or anything. Yet, many woman use them.
If you go over to ZeroHedge and act like a gun/conspiracy nut.
Deleted
I don't think it's undoable. While the whole dual screen was interesting, the machine was a combination of ideas. The first is the dual screen movement. Using one side for navigation, and the other as a work area.
What the Courier needed was its ideas incorporated into Windows Metro. Metro should be able to do all the stuff courier could, like scan documents quick, have applications that you can scribble on with your finger, then take a picture on it, record video or voice and have it as one work area note, similar to the Memo Note (iOS app). And the CORE cool thing that Windows can do that no other company can is to treat any Windows PC as a secondary screen.
Now that would be a value proposition. Except Microsoft can't even come out with copy and paste on time.
I'm pretty sure that the iPad 2 can do all that. And in a Touch UI paradigm, you really CAN'T have a "secondary screen" (that isn't touch), unless it is used just for showing content. With that in mind, there are some iPad apps that can do this to a secondary display (iMeetingPad, MapProjector, VGA Expedition), and if you Jailbreak your iPad, Cydia has something called "Display Out" that does that, too. I understand that isn't exactly the same thing as using your computer as an iPad secondary display; but it is kinda close.
But all the big interest seems in making the iPad function as a secondary display for your computer, not the other way around.
And I guess i have to ask "Why?" The whole idea of a Tablet is PORTABILITY; if you are sitting at your (much better spec-ed) computer, why would you want to use your iPad as the PRIMARY input and control method? Other than a Touch UI (which is not as advanced in many ways as a conventional mouse-driven GUI), I really don't see the advantages to any but the most fringe applications.
As you say, people are used to using dead tree books...
MS recently published a story about cloud computing, and using horseless carriage metaphors... I think the same applies here.
A tablet is a new form factor not really been pushed before, trying to use it like a book or like a desktop computer is wrong, and is very much like fitting a fake horse head on the front of your car. Apple seem to understand this, while MS keep trying to shoehorn existing ideas into incompatible form factors.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Sounds far too much like a shill.
While I agree that the iPad is a very interesting device, it is still terribly limiting in some respects. It is bound to increase the number of devices you lug around rather than decrease their number. There's still the problem of doing everything that Apple refuses to allow. For a web tablet, you simply can't gloss over Flash being banned outright.
The fact that one is forced to run an OS not of one's choosing is also very problematic.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
But my question remains: What's the hurry? What is it about the tablet that requires you to have one even though by your own admission it is less then what you want?
I'm sincerely interested in the buying impulse when it comes to consumer technology. Two years ago you didn't know you could not live without a tablet. Today, you are so certain you must have one that you'll overpay for something you wish was different.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I could ask, "Useful how?" but I'd just get a regurgitation of the advertising copy. So I'll just accept that there is something about his life that requires an iPad, and then a year later, an iPad2.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Hey, Spaniards sold mirrors to native Americans and charged them all the gold, just because mirrors were shiny. Notice any similarity?
No.
And you just couldn't wait another second because...?
Because he's not an irrational Apple hater, and doesn't mind buying the best tool for the job?
People buy jewelry or Rolex and brands just to look cool, still, no actual functionality. And those are more than 15 millions. Diamonds have no actual usefulness on a ring, they are not used to cut something or anything. Yet, many woman use them.
So all those millions of people including the hundreds of people I have personally witnessed just take out their iPads and do nothing with them? That's rather odd because I have personally seen them play games, play media, email, etc. Also I've seen people do work on them. One person was showing his boss some data and his boss was slicing through the data with gestures. I've been to a 10K/30K run where the company in charge of tracking the runners were showing the times and splits to the runners and other people on an iPad. "It shows Stephanie was last tagged at the 10K mark 20 minutes ago.
Again you are equating everyone in world to you and since you don't really have a use for it; therefore, ergo, no one could possibly use it. You can't seem to get over the idea that everyone is different. It would be equating the fact that I personally don't use a GPS device thus Garmin/Tom Tom should never sell one to anyone else.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
And there's something about your life that requires the computer that you're using right now. There's also something about your life that doesn't understand when people make different choices from you.
(And if you think he bought an iPad and then bought an iPad 2 a year later, you need to read his comment again.)
Please kill yourself. Or better yet, give someone else some pleasure (for once) and let them kill you.
I could ask, "Useful how?" but I'd just get a regurgitation of the advertising copy. So I'll just accept that there is something about his life that requires an iPad, and then a year later, an iPad2.
Hold on a sec... Just a moment ago you suggested he should have waited for an Android tablet, but now you disparage that he must have some inconceivable "requirement" in his life for an iPad. So one can buy an Android tablet for any reason whatsoever, and you're just fine with it, but if someone buys an iPad, you request they justify it to you?
I always assumed your nick was just a joke, but maybe you are the Pope of Android Fanboys? Infidel Apple customers will be confronted, Android will be praised, amen?
As much as I definitely have a preference (and make no attempt to hide it), I never tell anyone what they should buy, or question what they spend their own money on. Especially unbidden like this.
It's because you can only buy what actually exists, not what you wish existed. And your "overpay" comment is silly. Proper Android tablets can't even meet the price of the iPad, how is buying the cheapest tablet "overpaying"?
Had he bought the more expensive Xoom, would you have questioned his purchase?
You're a hypocrite. Your "What's the hurry?" angle indicates that you think it's perfectly acceptable to spend similar money on an Android tablet. But because at the moment there isn't a worthwhile Android tablet, you question the whole rationality of buying tablet.
In computer technology, there's always something better a year in the future. There might be some decent Android tablets by then. But then again, the goalposts will have moved yet again with the iPad 3. So they iPad may still be the better buy.
While I agree that the iPad is a very interesting device, it is still terribly limiting in some respects. It is bound to increase the number of devices you lug around rather than decrease their number. There's still the problem of doing everything that Apple refuses to allow. For a web tablet, you simply can't gloss over Flash being banned outright.
Depends really on what functionality you require. For some people, they have to have a laptop. But based on what I've seen most general consumers really want is email, MMS, FB, surf the web. etc. They don't code; they're not editing music, etc. They don't really need a laptop, but at the time, it was their own real choice. They could have used a smart phone and some do but the screen size was a big negative. Along comes the iPad. It does what they want for most part without having to lug a laptop around. Personally an iPad or Xoom would replace my laptop if I went on vacation. If I was traveling for work, it would be extra weight to carry.
The fact that one is forced to run an OS not of one's choosing is also very problematic.
Depends on what you mean by "forced." You can jailbreak any device legally despite what Apple says; however, the manufacturer of the device reserves the right not to provide support you if you do. The idea of the tie between hardware and software is much older than Apple; remember the Unix variants and how you couldn't run AIX on a Sun machine. It hasn't changed in decades and Apple wasn't the originator of this trend.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
While I agree that the iPad is a very interesting device, it is still terribly limiting in some respects. It is bound to increase the number of devices you lug around rather than decrease their number.
Why would it increase it? If what you need for mobile computing can be done with an iPad, then why would you take a laptop too? On the other hand, if you need your laptop anyway for some particular reason, you'd probably leave your iPad at home.
There's still the problem of doing everything that Apple refuses to allow. For a web tablet, you simply can't gloss over Flash being banned outright.
I block flash from my laptop, as it seems to be used for little more than annoying adverts in my experience. How then is it a disadvantage if iOS devices don't have it?
The fact that one is forced to run an OS not of one's choosing is also very problematic.
Huh? You chose iOS when you buy an iPad or an iPhone. You choose Android when you buy an Android phone or an Android tablet. You choose Windows Phone when you buy a WP phone. etc. If you find that a problem, you need to find some sense of perspective. Go out. See the sun rise. Smell the flowers.
Sounds far too much like a shill.
Yeah, especially the parts where he said he would rather have an Android tablet, that he only ever had one iPod from Apple, and how he runs Linux and runs Windows in a VM. What a total shill! By which I think you mean, he said nice things about something you don't like.
While I agree that the iPad is a very interesting device, it is still terribly limiting in some respects. It is bound to increase the number of devices you lug around rather than decrease their number.
What does that even mean? If it replaces one's laptop, it doesn't decrease the number of devices, but it significantly decreases bulk. If he never really carried a notebook all that much, but brings his iPad with him more often, that increases devices, but this is not a negative. If he brings a notebook and his iPad, it seems a bit much (for me, an iPad greatly reduces the amount of times I bring my notebook with me, to almost nil), but if he finds value in carrying both, I still fail to see how this is a negative.
There's still the problem of doing everything that Apple refuses to allow. For a web tablet, you simply can't gloss over Flash being banned outright.
He didn't. He lamented it, but honestly noted that while he wished it was an option, its omission isn't all that bad. I.e., instead of blindly raging against Apple, he openly evaluated the impact this has actually had.
The fact that one is forced to run an OS not of one's choosing is also very problematic.
For 0.0X% of the population.
Right. because you know, only ipad (or tablets) can do that...
Apple has conspired to ensure that these rarely happen on the typical iPad, fooling customers into think that, because their device runs perfectly
If you can only run one thing at a time, you need less memory.
Its the stupid things that drive me nuts with the iOS devices. I was doing some banking... and I couldn't have a calculator open at the same time as the bank app... and leaving the bank app meant I had to re-login. It was idiotic.
Today I'm shopping for a new car, so I was looking at web listings, while chatting with my brother. Again I wanted a calculator up so I could look at listings do currency conversions, tax calculations, and so on.
I find as soon as I want to actually do anything even remotely serious on an ios device, they drive me nuts.
There is no specific feature a Tablet has that a computer doesn't. A tablet does most of the things a computer can do, but it's easier and more convenient to use.
What does it matter what method is used for structural support - screws or glue? As long as the glued components can be removed for servicing without causing cosmetic or functional damage, then why not? And as for using a heat gun, that makes sense (again, as long as no cosmetic damage is made in the process) considering you can't use tabs or screwdrivers on glue very easily. My concern would be the usage of this glue in devices that may be used by people living in high-temperature environments. I live in Australia, and normally temperatures can get quite high here in summer. Now, the operating specifications have a maximum operating temperature, but the equipment can be protected by keeping it off in the hot time of the day when outside, but that won't protect the glue from losing structural support.
Who says it has to completely replace something? Or has to bring new capabilities?
The iPad has replaced my need for a notebook. This is huge. Multitouch is a new way to interact with a computer. All the specific tasks tablets can do are essentially the same as with a traditional PC, but some tasks are much better suited for touch. GarageBand is one very good example of this. Even web browsing is better in multitouch.
But the most telling thing about your post is you start out saying that iPads or tablets in general aren't very useful (people don't know how to use their iPods (really?), people buy these things because "it's cool", that tablets don't do anything that other devices can do), then say you are tempted to buy an Android tablet. That sums up right there that regerdless of whether "new" or not, iPads are compelling products. And at well over 15 million sold in less than a year, it's hard to fathom how this was even a question in the first place.
What percentage of those 15 million people had genuine needs to be fulfilled by the iPad, researched it and similar products, comparing specifications and capabilities, before finally deciding that it would provide the most value to them?
Had they bought an Android tablet, would you have derided them for not having a "genuine need" for one, or for not doing some arbitrary level of research? Or is it just that they have different needs and desires than you, so they must be stupid or otherwise irresponsibly frivolous?
Besides, who are you that people need to justify their purchases to you anyway?
I've already told one potential tablet adopter to wait for the Xoom, because it's already known that it is very serviceable. This means that in-house IT will be able to cannibalise machines for spares after a year or two, and replace the batteries, without having to send things off for increasingly expensive repairs. The Xoom seems to be designed much more with corporate IT in mind. I know that the iPad 2 is thin and light, must have gadget and the rest of it, but corporate users have other priorities.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
I would've thought the capacitive touchscreen *is* the specific feature the computer doesn't have. Which facilitate the apps, a novel and exciting method of input via finger.
I love how all the fanbois are crawling out to insist that "ample" and "adequate" are synonyms.
From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ample /æmpl/ Show Spelled[am-puhl] Show IPA
ample
–adjective, -pler, -plest.
1.
fully sufficient or more than adequate for the purpose or needs; plentiful; enough: an ample supply of water; ample time to finish.
2.
of sufficient or abundant measure; liberal; copious: an ample reward.
3.
of adequate or more than adequate extent, size, or amount; large; spacious; roomy: ample storage space.
Sucks to be as dumb as you.
"As others have pointed out, Apple really doesn't make any profit from the iTunes business, they just make it available as an inducement to buying iThings"
Apple grossed $4B from iTMS in 2009. Its impossible they didn't profit from this revenue.
Flash is deader than a mackerel. It's as if the lines of people stretching around the block on iPad Release Day (soon to be a major Federal holiday, apparently) are full of people holding axes, machetes, and murderous intentions towards Flash.
Flash is simply no longer a viable player in Web development, for better or worse. And no, I'm not saying that's a good thing.
The Xoom compares to only one iPad2 model, a 3G unit with a decent amount of storage - and even then it's around $70 more.
The thing is that you can get twice the storage for even less with an iPad if you are willing to forgo 3G. Or if you don't have a lot of money you can get an iPad for many hundreds less.
I don't think it's correct to say that because one particular model is close at all price-wise, that the two units are close in price. You have to consider the entry price to get into the platform, which is the starting point that consumers use to make choices. For someone initially considering these two devices they come off as $500 for an iPad2 and $800 for a Xoom... or even to be fair I guess you could use the subsidized Xoom price at $600. But that seems a bit dubious to me as not many people will see that price and it's not MSRP.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I don't know how much more efficient Dalvik may be than standard JVM, but it is silly to try to equate the two operating systems' resource requirements. iOS runs native C (Obj-C/C++) code without garbage collection, so it's about as close to the metal as can be. The Java VM is without question slower and has more memory overhead, and garbage collection is one part of the reason. I've always joked that with Windows you lose one CPU core to your anti-virus software. With the JVM, you lose some of your CPU to garbage collection, and there is definitely memory overhead. The VM does not come for free -- in order to avoid problems on servers with periodic long garbage collection pauses (app lockups), one solution is the concurrent mark-and-sweep collector, which basically takes a certain amount of CPU overhead all the time as the tradeoff. I *love* Java, but there is no denying that it is noticeably slower than native. JIT etc. fix most of this in theory, but *not* in practice.
So for all you know, Dalvik apps eat twice the memory and twice the CPU, explaining why the iPad could have half the memory and CPU cores, and still be just as fast. If you don't have concrete numbers in those areas, your complaints about "iPad not enough memory" are just pulled out of thin air.
Yeah, especially the parts where he said he would rather have an Android tablet, that he only ever had one iPod from Apple, and how he runs Linux and runs Windows in a VM.
Well, if I wanted to sell my product to Slashdotters, I'd present it as being for people who run Linux, choose Android, and aren't rabid Apple fans.
If he said "As a mac user and having tried the iPod, I felt I had to try the iPad", he'd have come across as a rabid Apple fanboy.
It's curious that he felt the urge to mention his credentials at all.
The rest of it is written in a style that suggests this is a commercial review with the intent to guide buyers. Mention of the portfolio (and the price) would be valuable information in a magazine review, but seems bizarre in a comment, and the fact that it's entirely positive makes it read very much like a puff piece.
So when can we expect an ARM machine capable of running Crysis? :)
I mean that's the expectation those holding out for better specs have - a machine with all the bells and whistles that can run android/meego etc with all the convenience of an iPad but still fallback to, say, Ubuntu for everything else.
My advice would be buy a Win7 netbook, one of those convertible models. Apple and Android makers aren't going to be shipping 'desktop specs' any time soon.
This is a design feature to assist users by:
Using the maths skills you learnt at school,
Improving you memory.
As you say, people are used to using dead tree books... MS recently published a story about cloud computing, and using horseless carriage metaphors... I think the same applies here.
A tablet is a new form factor not really been pushed before, trying to use it like a book or like a desktop computer is wrong, and is very much like fitting a fake horse head on the front of your car. Apple seem to understand this, while MS keep trying to shoehorn existing ideas into incompatible form factors.
Well, until the internet gets an order of magnitude or two faster, and deep-packet inspection becomes impractical due to bullet-proof encryption, I'm with the horse-head people as far as Cloud Computing goes.
;-)
I'm still with you on the tablet vs. book thing, though!
And one of the best U.S. muscle cars of the '60s (Ford Mustang) went pretty far with that Horse Head metaphor, LOL!
"Most of"? A pencil and a piece of paper can do "most of" the things a computer can do, too.
Maybe you should tell me what a tablet can do that a $100 netbook cannot? Not how it does it, but what it can do.
You are welcome on my lawn.
And which job is that?
You are welcome on my lawn.
No, I didn't. I just wanted to get a clearer understanding of desire to have a tablet. I'm not crazy about the Android tablets either. And I own an iPad which my wife bought me for Christmas.
I'm seriously just trying to understand the urge for early adoption, when it's expressed in terms of "need" and the willingness to overpay for it. Not trying to boost any particular platform.
I don't think tablets become worthwhile until they start about $100 for a capable unit.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Absolutely. Paying more than $500 for a tablet doesn't make sense to me. Especially since Androids are still pretty immature. The iPad is a much more refined device, but it's just been tamed to the point where it's not as interesting.
My challenge is not "iPad vs Android". It's "Why is the 2011 version of the underpowered PDA such a fascination when it still lacks many of the capabilities of a $99 netbook?
You are welcome on my lawn.
But my question remains: What's the hurry? What is it about the tablet that requires you to have one even though by your own admission it is less then what you want?
I'm sincerely interested in the buying impulse when it comes to consumer technology. Two years ago you didn't know you could not live without a tablet. Today, you are so certain you must have one that you'll overpay for something you wish was different.
So, I assume that your iPad just sits there, in perpetual "standby", or do you actually use it for ANYTHING?
If the answer is that it just sits there, in standby, then why didn't you just return it, and save your wife hundreds of dollars; or better yet, buy HER something nice with the money?
However, if your answer is that you DO use it, then how on earth can you question any other person's decision to purchase one?
Either way, your position is totally untenable, and you are nothing but a disingenous troll.
And which job is that?
Uh, maybe the 65,000 iPad-specific "jobs" that are available on the App Store?
Just because YOU have no imagination, doesn't mean everyone is challenged in that way, too.
Oh, I quite agree. If someone has one of those "iPad specific jobs" they should definitely consider buying an iPad.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Sounds far too much like a shill.
While I agree that the iPad is a very interesting device, it is still terribly limiting in some respects. It is bound to increase the number of devices you lug around rather than decrease their number.
That is FAR from a "given". There are plenty of people that have STOPPED carrying devices they normally carry once they got an iPad.
There's still the problem of doing everything that Apple refuses to allow. For a web tablet, you simply can't gloss over Flash being banned outright.
Doesn't seem to be bothering people who actually USE the iPad. In fact, quite the opposite. Next?
The fact that one is forced to run an OS not of one's choosing is also very problematic.
And how is that different from ANY Android device, except, perhaps, the Nexus smarphones? You have to jump through some serious hoops (and sometimes it isn't even possible) to run anything other than the version of Android that the manufacturer ships with their devices.
BTW, there is absolutely NOTHING stopping you from writing your OWN OS for the iPad, except your lack of talent/laziness/time/interest. If you have the chops to replace the OS on your Android, you should be able to write your own replacement OS for the iPad, right?
"If you can only run one thing at a time, you need less memory."
And funny enough, I've been able to run more than one app at a time since June of last year....
"Its the stupid things that drive me nuts with the iOS devices. I was doing some banking... and I couldn't have a calculator open at the same time as the bank app... and leaving the bank app meant I had to re-login. It was idiotic."
Funny, my banking app doesn't require me to re-login.....
"I find as soon as I want to actually do anything even remotely serious on an ios device, they drive me nuts."
It might have helped if you had experience with an iOS device -- it's only been out for *nine* months.....
Just because someone is used to some shape doesn't make it the most ergonomic shape. I definitely prefer holding Kindle (of the non-DX variety) to holding a book. The main problem with tablets currently is weight - iPad and Xoom are 700g, iPad 2 is 600g - it's still too much to conveniently hold in one hand (in contrast, Kindle is 240g).
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-2-Wi-Fi-Teardown/5071/1
Stellar job as usual, editors, allowing someone to post a shitty blog link instead of the real article.
Because he's not an irrational Apple hater, and doesn't mind buying the best tool for the job?
What job, exactly, is the iPad the best tool for?
Required reading for internet skeptics
Oh, I quite agree. If someone has one of those "iPad specific jobs" they should definitely consider buying an iPad.
So, wait. NOW you're saying that there are 65,000 reasons FOR buying an iPad?
That's a pretty large envelope. Are you SURE you want to keep claiming that you can't understand WHY someone would "need" an iPad?
There is practically no one (relative to the population) that NEEDS a computer, either. Or a microwave oven. Or a TV, DVD player, MP3 player, game console, radio, or stereo. Do you? Yet I'll be willing to bet that you own all, or at least some, of these.
If you do, then by your own logic, you're just being stupid, right?
People don't buy tablets to save money or get more features. They buy them because they are easier and more convenient to use then computers or laptops and they meet most users computer needs. They can be used to surf the internet, check email, and write documents.
There seems to be some kind of miscommunication. In my previous post I said a tablet can't do anything a net book can't do. So why are you asking me for features? Maybe you're asking what makes a tablet easier to use then a computer or laptop. So here are some of those reasons in no particular order:
1. They are smaller and lighter than most net books.
2. They can be used in more positions than a laptop, for example it is easy to use one when standing up or sitting on a couch.
3. They have a multitouch interface, which is more intuitive than a traditional mouse and keyboard interface.
4. They have an application based interface, which is easier to navigate and maintain than the file based interfaces of most computers.
5. They have a much better battery life then most laptops or net books.
Even web browsing is better in multitouch.
What does multitouch bring to web browsing? That is, how does multitouch make web browsing "better"?
I doubt that your tablet would let you maintain the same level of Apple shilling you do on Slashdot -- touchscreen keyboards are horrible.
Required reading for internet skeptics
My original comment was directed at the parent comment which questioned the value of a tablet. I tried to show how I, an Apple skeptic, nonetheless found value in an iPad. I brought up that I was not in the Mac/Windows community as a way of showing my objectivity, not as an insidious way of shilling.
I'm amazed and disappointed at this stunning display of poor reading comprehension among some of the Slashdot readership. I tried to use short paragraphs and simple words to make my points easy to digest. Pearls before swine, I suppose.
As others noted above, I evaluated all the alternatives, at least to the extent that I was willing to read about them, and concluded that the iPad was the best tablet product currently available. Mind you, this was just before the Xoom was released, although I was aware of the Xoom and also the excellent Samsung Tab 10.1. I would say that Apple has successfully fended off these competitors with their iPad 2 offering, at least until they become as thin and light and can reduce their prices.
I just noticed that Apple entirely refunded my open-box return of my refurbished iPad, so I'm only out the $12 it cost to fedex it back even though they originally said they would keep 10%, or $42.90, for the restocking fee. This pleases me. Now I feel better about upgrading to the 2.
Perhaps I didn't emphasize this in my original comment (well, I did, but for the benefit of those who don't read very well), but I do fly a lot, typically about four long plane flights a month, and the iPad has changed my whole travel experience. For one thing, it's tiny in my carry-on, literally like a pad of paper, and the charger is this little USB-to-AC cube plus a USB-to-Apple cable. It's so much less weight than carrying a brick-like Dell laptop plus a two pound power supply. Then, of course, it actually is useful during flight, unlike the Dell which has about four hours of battery life on the dimmest screen setting and which has to sit half-closed on the tray if the guy in front of me reclines his seat, which inevitably they do. The one thing I miss about a real laptop is that I can play DVD movies and AVI files (although I notice there's a free AVI player available for the iPad now). Hmm; just how well does a $99 netbook play a DVD, anyway?
The other cool feature of the iPad which I didn't mention above is its instant-on capability. Actually, it's instant-unhibernate, but effectively it's like it's off when it's sleeping. You can turn the thing all the way off if you really need to, but hibernate is good enough almost all of the time. That's another reason it's superior to laptops--when you need it, it turns on within a second, similar to a Palm Pilot or a modern day iPhone/Android/Blackberry. It's there when you need it, with none of this waiting around while the OS boots, loads tons of stuff from the hard drive into RAM, runs Norton Antivirus, checks for updates to the OS, all of that crap that takes a couple of minutes minimum on a traditional machine.
Lastly, my long term plan is to upgrade to a state of the art Android Honeycomb 3.1 type of device with all the bells and whistles and my ipad 2 will go to my dear wife and/or six year old who will gladly use it without missing all the cool connectivity and openness of the alternative platforms.
Do I regret trying the iPad, and now having to wait for an iPad 2? Not one bit. I am in fact going through tablet withdrawal right now, and it's going to be a frustrating couple of weeks before the 2 becomes available. Of course, it's probably better to wait a month until the initial manufacturing glitches shake out--I've already heard about weird spots on the screen, LED leakage or some such--but I suspect they'll fix things quite a bit faster in a 2nd generation unit.
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
Had they bought an Android tablet, would you have derided them for not having a "genuine need" for one
Why not? I certainly would. Tablets are still useless for anything other than dicking-around. They're toys -- not tools.
While there are uses for portable/handheld computers, other devices much better suited to specific tasks have long existed. 10 years ago I worked on a project that coupled a barcode scanner with an ipaq for warehouse use -- what that seems antiquated now, it's still better fit (lighter and tougher) than a 10" tablet. Telxon has a number of handheld products for remote data collection which a tablet computer would be a much worse fit.
If you can find a need (not a want) that is best filled by iPad-style tablets, then feel free to share. A good number of other slashdot users are legitimately interested.
Required reading for internet skeptics
You're right, I hadn't considered the many different positions in which I require computing.
You are welcome on my lawn.
No, I'm saying there are 65,000 jobs which require iPads, and at very least those 65,000 people who might need iPads, though I understand most of the iPad development is not done on iPads.
You must admit, there is a certain elegance in a platform that you can use to develop applications for that same platform. I consider that one of the greatest weaknesses of iOS: That you can't use it to develop iOS apps. How popular would OSX be if you had to use Windows to develop software for it? Or vice-versa? The processing power of iOS devices is certainly sufficient for development, so the only thing preventing it from being a complete solution is the Apple business model. I'm not sure if Android has the same shortcoming, since I'm not an Android user.
Do you think that tablets will always have to be tethered to a desktop? Do you really believe that there won't be tablets that can be used for general-purpose computing? This is why I feel that my iPad (yes, I own an iPad) is just a transitional technology. I don't believe the "walled garden" will endure once full-featured tablets become widely available at competitive prices. The prices are still in the early-adopter stratospheric levels. There's no reason the entry level iPad shouldn't be under $200, like the iPod Touch (which I also own, and I also consider a "transitional" technology at best). Sort of like the early very early iPods before they became open enough to play different formats. Considering there are already very crude tablets available for $99 at K-Mart, I believe it won't be long before the technology opens up. At that point, there will be something of a crossroads for Apple: either stick with the walled garden consumer-electronics approach or try to reach the techies, DIYs and open-software markets. That will probably happen after Steve Jobs is gone.
I
You are welcome on my lawn.
We have these things called 'stands', which you lean the tablet up against. Both hands free! With a tiny bit of creativity, one could also use a desk, table, or wall in such a way as to act as a stand as well.
Around 50 years ago we also invented these things called 'keyboards', and while you need a specific type of keyboard that has only existed for about a decade to connect it to a tablet, these keyboards do provide a better experience with massive data input.
For iPad specifically, there is a tiny adapter you can buy with a USB port on it. For Android tablets, they typically come with a USB port on the side, though you might still need a mini-to-usb-A adapter depending on what port it has built in.
Then you can use any keyboard invented in the last 15 years or so.
I realize you personally don't care, but this is for others who might read and believe what you have to say.
It's even easier than that for the iPad: Just use any bluetooth keyboard. No adapter needed.
Obviously you haven't. But unless you're only interested in using a computer at a desk it's a factor. The point is they're easier to use in general, and that's why people are buying them.
Because he's not an irrational Apple hater, and doesn't mind buying the best tool for the job?
And which job is that?
Uh, maybe the 65,000 iPad-specific "jobs" that are available on the App Store?
The claim was that the iPad is "the best tool for the job".
I call bullshit on your rhetoric. Name ONE job for which the iPad is "the best tool".
Required reading for internet skeptics
t's even easier than that for the iPad: Just use any bluetooth keyboard
Great, so you get a stand and a bluetooth keyboard and now your tablet becomes ... ... an expensive yet drastically underpowered netbook, broken into three pieces, and requires two chargers.
Tablets are the future?
Required reading for internet skeptics
I'm seriously just trying to understand the urge for early adoption, when it's expressed in terms of "need" and the willingness to overpay for it. Not trying to boost any particular platform.
Everyone else's iPad works just like yours (well, iPad 2 is a bit more powerful with a few extra features, but it still works basically the same way). All those things you can do on yours? That's what we do with ours. The only difference is we enjoy it and don't believe it's overpriced. If you don't find yours worth the money, I'm not sure what you expect someone to be able to tell you to bring you to a different conclusion. It's not like there's some secret app or something that we are all running that you just haven't been told about or anything.
It's like baseball or rap or American Idol, or whatever thing you don't like that a lot of other people seem to. People are diverse and have diverse tastes, values, and opinions.
Even web browsing is better in multitouch.
What does multitouch bring to web browsing? That is, how does multitouch make web browsing "better"?
You interact directly with the page, no mouse or keyboard in between you and the content. That makes it much more enjoyable, to me at least. You may be different. If so, no big deal. Don't get an iPad if you don't want, but don't act like people who buy them are trendy fools tricked by "coolness", only to discover the device is not terribly useful, as the person I was replying to did.
I doubt that your tablet would let you maintain the same level of Apple shilling you do on Slashdot
I'm giving my opinion. Just because it's not yours doesn't make me a shill. The only reason I post so much about Apple stuff here is that there is so much assholery here on Slashdot about Apple. I don't care if people don't like Apple or their products, but Apple on Slashdot is like Democrats on Fox News.
touchscreen keyboards are horrible.
I don't recall ever typing so much while using the web to care enough that the keyboard isn't as good as a physical keyboard. And if I did, I could just use any bluetooth or USB keyboard.
If you can find a need (not a want) that is best filled by iPad-style tablets, then feel free to share. A good number of other slashdot users are legitimately interested.
I'm not sure why you think people should feel the need to justify their purchases to you. If you don't see the need, hooray for you. You're starting from a specific point of view with different needs and desires. You say I have to provide a "need (not a want)". Do you have a "need (not a want)" for running Linux (if you do)? Or a netbook instead of a tablet? Or a "need (not a want)" for a portable computer in the first place? Do you only buy things if they are a "need (not a want)"? I bet your desktop LCD is larger than what you specifically *need*. If you have dual monitors, that's even more true. Does your printer print in color? Do you actually *need* color? Shouldn't you just use a B&W laser printer? But then, who am I to suggest you justify your choices to me?
Tablets are still useless for anything other than dicking-around. They're toys -- not tools.
First off, "dicking around" is 90% of what people do on the computer. What do you think you're doing right now? You're definitely not doing something that requires a "tool" of any sort that isn't basically a "toy". (I'm using quotes because it's a stupid distinction meant to belittle anything the speaker doesn't find useful)
With an iPad, I can leave my notebook at home. Maybe that means I don't need a "tool" away from home, although I've done plenty of "tool" things with my iPad, including offloading and sharing of raw files from my dSLR while on vacation. I definitely could have done this with a notebook or a netbook, but why? The iPad is much more convenient.
But then, like I said, I have no need to justify myself to you. If you don't find an iPad (or tablet in general) to be useful, that's fine. I don't mind you presenting your opinion. I only ask you quit acting like *your* opinion is objective fact and anyone else with a different opinion should feel any need or desire whatsoever to defend theirs to you.
My challenge is not "iPad vs Android". It's "Why is the 2011 version of the underpowered PDA such a fascination when it still lacks many of the capabilities of a $99 netbook?
Because it has many capabilities that the imaginary $99 netbook lacks. I know you probably won't understand this, but not running a desktop OS is a *HUGE PLUS* for many people. Reading books and viewing photos and videos is far more enjoyable on an iPad than on a netbook. Not having to open a cumbersome clamshell is very nice.
Let's assume for the moment that you still aren't convinced. At least accept the fact that well over 15 million people chosen to buy an iPad, and millions more buy them each month. Clearly you don't agree with them, but they seem to really like their iPads, so there's obviously something there for many people that isn't there for you. Some people like vi, some people like emacs, and the other 99+% have no clue what vi and emacs are, and just use a GUI text editor or word processor. You remind me of an emacs graybeard who can't understand why anyone would use something as limited as notepad.exe instead of something as powerful as emacs. No need to change your opinion, just accept that not everyone shares your opinion, and that's not a bad thing.
Because he's not an irrational Apple hater, and doesn't mind buying the best tool for the job?
What job, exactly, is the iPad the best tool for?
A portable computer that performs a requisite list of tasks. As long as it meets that standard, everything else is opinion. If it's the best tool for
yog or me or anyone else, what's it to you? I don't care if it's not the best tool to you. If it's not, then simply don't buy one, and everyone's happy. Why butt yourself into other people's choices?
Actually, I don't think you're taking the pricing in the proper context.
While true that the *cheapest* iPad is, in fact, much cheaper than, say, the Motorola XOOM, you'll find that -- at least in hardware -- it's also lacking many of the features that the XOOM *does* have. Fortunately, there are models of the iPad that are comparable down to being in the same provider with the same storage space and other similar specifications.
First, let's look at the XOOM: a dual-core 1 GHz ARM CPU (just like the iPad 2 IIRC) with 1 GB low-power DDR2 (twice the amount of the iPad 2) and 32 GB storage space to start, upgradable with another 32 GB to a maximum of 64 GB -- but let's ignore that and stick with the 32 GB baseline. The crucial thing to keep in mind here is that this baseline also, by default, is for Verizon cell service, and it unfortunately doesn't seem to be able to have any alternatives for that. The resolution is also at 1280x800, whereas the iPad's is 1024x768.
That's just pointing out the discrepancies you'll be facing when you see this comparison. So in order to get a fair (IMO) price comparison on this, we'll need an iPad 2 that's roughly the same, INCLUDING Verizon service. If we completely ignore storage altogether and just go Cheapest vs. Cheapest, the answer... depends on getting a contract. If you're a new customer with Verizon (or, I suppose, if you're renewing and they want to give you the contract rate), the cheapest iPad 2 sits at $629 whereas the Motorola XOOM... sits at $599 . If you're matching storage points and getting a contract, the XOOM still sits at $599 but the iPad goes up to $729! Of course, however, if you're not getting a contract and purchasing the device outright, the XOOM does get its ass handed to it on price -- although, to be fair, I could not find contract-less purchasing for an iPad 2.
tl;dr: XOOM is less expensive, spec-for-spec unless you're buying it without a contract.
(No, I'm not including software, usability, etc. -- I'm just going hardware-for-hardware and ignoring the OS, which is largely a measure of personal bias. Full disclosure: my personal bias is Android. However, what I've written here may be verified by going to the websites for the Apple Store and for Verizon's store.)
You can jailbreak any device legally despite what Apple says;...
Right, but that's not really having a choice of operating system, that's simply hacking the operating system already in place; being able to run an alternative operating system is non-functional on anything but the very first iPhone, to my knowledge. Even if Apple doesn't have to provide support for it -- and they don't -- it's still troublesome that they actively prevent even the attempt.
If what you need for mobile computing can be done with an iPad, then why would you take a laptop too? On the other hand, if you need your laptop anyway for some particular reason, you'd probably leave your iPad at home.
Actually, just throwing my two cents in, I could see myself lugging both a tablet and a laptop around -- the tablet for those instances when I just need to look something up quickly or do a minor task and don't want to wait for the boot-up (looking up wikipedia, for example), and the laptop for when I need to do much more intensive work that I have to deal with the boot process for anyway (SSHing to multiple places and doing tasks concurrently).
Also, you and your GP are doing the traditional US-centric thing of thinking that the US model of highly Taylorised corporates applies everywhere in the world. In the UK (and Europe) there are many SMEs (i.e. up to around $500 million turnover) that do not fit the US model, and the company I referenced is one of these. My company works (among others) with outsourcers and with break/fix companies that supply services to these SMEs, and I can assure you that maintainability is important to them. Traditionally in costing laptops and similar equipment they factor in an oversupply to deal with EOL maintenance and field failures once the manufacturer warranty expires. Maintainable equipment equates to a lower oversupply.
But shoot, what do I know? I've only been in the business eleven years...whereas I guess that someone who has to SHOUT a lot to try to make their point is probably under 25.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Why butt yourself into other people's choices?
I didn't butt into anyones choice. I asked a simple question regarding your post which apparently you don't have an answer for.
Why do you feel the need to defend a multi-billion dollar corporation against legitimate criticism considering that it is, by any measure, doing rather well?
Required reading for internet skeptics
How can you say so much and still not answer a simple question?
Ah there it is: You use it to copy and share files from your digital camera while on vacation.
My phone does that too. It also makes calls and fits in a pocket. But if you think that your tablet is still "more convenient" so be it. Enjoy carting that around.
Required reading for internet skeptics
don't act like people who buy them are trendy fools tricked by "coolness"
All I asked was how multitouch made web browsing easier.
You've failed yet again to answer my very simple question. (Regarding your non-answer: touch != mutitouch)
You'd think with replies as long as yours, you could manage to address my questions.
The only reason I post so much about Apple stuff here is that there is so much assholery here on Slashdot about Apple
I agree. Most of it is from people like Node 3 -- that guy has way too much time on his hands.
don't care if people don't like Apple or their products
Apparently you do.
I don't recall ever typing so much while using the web to care enough that the keyboard isn't as good as a physical keyboard.
If you've typed even half of your most recent posts on a touch-screen keyboard then I can't argue. It apparently works for you. Congratulations, you're in a lucky minority.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Digital distribution is -cheap- REALLY cheap. Doesn't cost much to host data and send it over the net. For example Netflix pays about 5 cents to Akamai to stream an HD movie. That's 3GB or so of data and remember: Akamai does the hosting as well as the bandwidth, and they have to make money on the whole deal too. So, when you are talking music, small apps, and so on you don't need a whole lot of money to cover costs. Even when people download multiple times, you are still talking fractions of a cent it costs you.
You want to see some evidence that digital distribution makes tons? Look no further than Steam. Here you have Valve, a private company, so no big investors to prop them up if they lose a ton. What's more they've got no consumer electronics division. They do two things: Games and digital distribution.
Well Steam makes them bank. They are more profitable than ever and indeed don't have to worry about game release schedules because Steam is where their big money is. Of course the downloads on Steam are large too. Normal games are 5-20GB these days. What's more, they give away bandwidth. If a game uses their Steamworks copyprotection, then any copy purchased registers on Steam and is eligible to be downloaded. However they don't charge for it. So while they take a cut of the sale price if you buy it on Steam, if you buy it at Target and then register it, they don't. None the less they still provide you updates, reinstalls, etc from Steam to your heart's content. Of course there are other free things too. Demos, no cost mods, videos, and so on.
All that and they are raking in the dough.
So I'm sorry, but I'm not buying Apple's "Really we don't make any money on iTunes!" crap. Yes they do, plenty. Perhaps I could buy they don't make much on the music part, since the music industry probably fucks them on fees, but even then I'm skeptical. However software, apps? Hell no, they make bank.
I happen to love demoscene stuff, but I also happen to have a realistic assessment of what it is and how it works. So, let's take a look at one of Farbrausch's demos, since they really are the kings of the 64k compo. So we'll take fr-27, it's one that after the contest they managed to optimize down to just 47k on disk. All that and ti is full 3D, amazing. Ok but here's a question: How large is it in RAM? Answer is 77MB. That's right, as it loads (the little white bar on black background) it is generating a bunch of procedural data to RAM. Tiny on disk, big on the RAM.
Also all it manages with that is some very simplistic geometric shapes and animations. It's cool, don't get me wrong, but it is just very simple stuff. No complex artwork, no detailed animation.
So let's take a newer one, fr-41. This one is a little larger but still only 177k on disk. Also it has a full city scape that is quite nice looking. Still suffers a bit from the procedural generation "copy-paste) brush, but is far more than just simple geometric stuff. Also has some more advanced animation and morphing. Plus it has a UI to configure things. So how's it do on the RAM usage? 835MB. Damn. It has to decompress a ton of stuff in to RAM to fit in that size.
See those small demos are the art of a certain kind of optimization. You go for low disk usage at all costs. That's fine but it ends up taking up massive amounts of memory, plus heavy CPU and/or GPU usage to generate the content. Fine and extremely cool, I -love- it but don't pretend that all programs could be like that. Also it couldn't run on the iPad, not near enough resources.
Then there's just the fact that you lose flexibility. You have to deal with more simple things when it is all procedurally generated, you lose artistic control. You can see it in Farbrausch demos. Have a look at fr-25, their second most famous one (fr-19 their fist 64k is their most famous). It is a demo with a fully produced song with vocals and instruments, not just algorithmically synthesized music, and with advanced animation. Uses the same engine as their 64k demos, but weighs in at 8.6MB.
So you might want to learn a bit more about the tradeoffs one has to make for some of these things. To briefly touch on your garage band thing, I have multiple General MIDI instrument sample libraries. My smallest is a 4MB SoundFont. My largest is 40GB. the 4MB and 40GB library span the same collection of 128 instruments. However if you think the final sound is the same, you are kidding yourself, I don't keep the big one around for show.
Easy - one such job is being a decent eReader, browser, remote desktop tool, e-mail device in a single device. No it's not the best eReader, but the best eReader can't do all the rest of it. A device doesn't have to be best-in-class for any one single task to be considered the best tool for "the job" when "the job" involves combining a range of tasks.
But all the big interest seems in making the iPad function as a secondary display for your computer, not the other way around.
I can think of a variety of ways in which the current iPad form factor might be useful to me, but they all involve the device working as a "real" computer, rather than just as a media or "app" box like the iPhone. Apple already markets quite a good OS in the form of OS X, which (ignoring flames from detractors) has the advantage of being Unixy enough for my purposes.
If Apple would consider dropping OS X on to the iPad and marketing some form of roll-out or foldable keyboard for it, I might seriously consider buying one. But as it stands, it seems Apple is pointing the MacBook Air in my direction, and that just looks like an inadequate laptop.
Why not? I certainly would. Tablets are still useless for anything other than dicking-around. They're toys -- not tools.
I think I must be using mine wrong; I seem to get an awful lot of useful stuff done on it. Maybe it's broken?
If you can find a need (not a want) that is best filled by iPad-style tablets, then feel free to share. A good number of other slashdot users are legitimately interested.
I needed a single device (for portability concerns) that combines at least 2-way orientability (portrait-mode for natural eReading of academic textbooks, landscape for remote desktop work), at least 10" screen (for natural typing in landscape mode) with full screen multitouch capabilities to allow for natural input that involves neither a tiny trackpad or nipple pointer control (both of which I find unusable), and provides gesture-based control (for zooming, scrolling etc., particularly when using a remote desktop)
Do you know of a single non-tablet device which provides all these?
So you're saying that you can't name a single job for which a tablet is better suited than other devices.
Required reading for internet skeptics
I've had an Ipad for about six month and I regularly run into out-of-memory problems where applications suddenly shut down. Usually, turning off all the "sleeping" applications helps, but regularly I have to reboot the pad in order to run some applications reliably.
So, yes, the 256MB's of the Ipad 1 is inadequate, at least for my usage.
And, no, it's not jailbroken...
/.Mattsson - My native language is not English, so please don't whine over linguistic errors. (That's lame anyway...)
Wow, did you not even bother to read my comment? It is better suited than other devices for doing the job of combining those features on a single device.
Do you know of a single non-tablet device which provides all these?
As a touchscreen is (inexplicably) a requirement, any touchscreen netbook. As an added bonus, it'll also make typing easier.
As you have trouble with fine motor control, I'd recommend that you learn to use keyboard shortcuts -- it'll greatly improve your productivity.
Still, you haven't addressed the question. I guess no one has an answer...
Required reading for internet skeptics
Do you know of a single non-tablet device which provides all these?
As a touchscreen is (inexplicably) a requirement, any touchscreen netbook. As an added bonus, it'll also make typing easier.
As you have trouble with fine motor control, I'd recommend that you learn to use keyboard shortcuts -- it'll greatly improve your productivity.
Still, you haven't addressed the question. I guess no one has an answer...
Incorrect, you merely lack the comprehension to see when your question has been answered. This is your style of argument: ask a question, then claim any answer you receive doesn't count. On the other hand, you've not answered my question; a touchscreen netbook is hopeless in portrait more, which was among my requirements.
On top of which, you dismiss (inexplicably) the need for touchscreen, and a convenient input method. Yes, I do indeed have trouble with fine motor control; many people do, and keyboard shortcuts do not replace all pointer interactions.
He said RAM not swap...
Oh man you really should try out a iOS device...
Pulling up from history, because memory wasn't sufficient and killed your browser. Common this is 2011, I say get a grip. An iPad with 256 MB will give you way better experience that what you describe.
Well fanboys tend to think everyone else is a fanboi
Well put the rant on your bank app maker.
I have no such issues whit my banking, I can use any app in-between. I could even do it while iOS didn't have its multitasking APIs.
I agree about diverse values. And I don't think the iPad is "bad" or anything like that. I just believe it's still an expensive toy, though, which is how I use mine. I ask every iPad user I meet what they do with theirs. Like me, it's mainly a media player, and a slightly less capable eReader. Very light web surfing. I'm not ready to hang laurals around Apple or Motorola or Google or LG or Samsung until they start producing tablets on which I can do work. Further, it's impossible to use an iPad with one hand, like while standing on the train, which is when it could be most useful.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Wow, you're an idiot.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Wow, again, you're an idiot. Having several features on a single device isn't a task.
Required reading for internet skeptics
And funny enough, I've been able to run more than one app at a time since June of last year....
Two windows on a screen at the same time? Or just the ability to switch between two apps?
I want the former, the latter is a PITA. I want to be able to SEE the page I'm getting the numbers from at the same time I enter them into the calculator.... not cut/switch apps/paste/switch apps/cut/switch apps/paste/switch apps...
Funny, my banking app doesn't require me to re-login.....
Mine does. And if it doesn't, how do you exit it so someone can't pick up your device, select your banking app, and already be logged in? Do you ahve to remember to logout manually with every use? That's just as bad, if not worse.
I want the banking up to stay logged in as long as its visible. But I want to have a calculator visible too, and maybe a texting app... switch/switch/switch/switch/switch is annoying but reasonable on an iphone. (which I HAVE) due to the small screen, but its intolerable on an ipad (which I have used) which has enough screen real-estate for windows. I ended up just reaching for the 13" laptop, for the massive boost in efficiency at getting the task done.
Fair enough. But since iOS doesn't have task managment, being able to leave the app running and switch to the other, means that you can very easily inadvertantly leave the app logged in...for an indefinite period of time, which may be convenient but is really bad security.
And I don't want to necessarily use an app "in between" I want to use an app ON TOP of the banking window. I want to text my brother about stocks while I'm looking at my portfolio not switch back and forth continually. I want to run some calculations while the numbers I'm working from are displayed on hte page... not cut/switch/paste/switch/cut/switch/paste/calculate/cut/switch/paste...
Reading is not nearly as pleasant on my iPad as it is on the eInk devices I've seen. And the form factor is not comfortable for reading. It's not easy to hold in one hand, nor is it as nice to hold as a paperback book.
And how often do people "view photos" when they're on the way to work or on a plane? Are you telling me that "viewing photos" is a major reason for owning an iPad instead of a netbook costing only 1/4 as much?
You are welcome on my lawn.
If you don't consider combining numerous tasks on a single device as a worthwhile job, then yours was a dumb question. Who cares whether or not a general-purpose device is the single best device for any one thing?
Call me an idiot all you like, I'm not the one who is utterly failing to understand basic principles of worth.
LMAO, so the true progression is 1. Ask a question, 2. Claim any answer doesn't count, 3. Call the other guy names when he calls you out on it.
Do let us know if you think you can counter my argument; otherwise go troll elsewhere until you get a clue.
So you're basically saying its a large iphone and one should expect only phone-level applications to be usable....
yeah ok.... sounds to me like you could save a lot of money and just get a magnifying glass for your iphone.
It's a limited appliance designed to do a couple of things well.
Gotcha. I had higher expectations of the device, but now that you've cleared it up I suppose 512mb will do... now if only the device was WORTH it to do only a couple things well.... I must be in a lower income bracket than most people considering ipads... hundreds of dollars to check e-mail slightly more comfortably than my phone? please... Like I said.. I had higher expectations of what these devices would be capable of doing considering the price.
But all the big interest seems in making the iPad function as a secondary display for your computer, not the other way around.
I can think of a variety of ways in which the current iPad form factor might be useful to me, but they all involve the device working as a "real" computer, rather than just as a media or "app" box like the iPhone. Apple already markets quite a good OS in the form of OS X, which (ignoring flames from detractors) has the advantage of being Unixy enough for my purposes. If Apple would consider dropping OS X on to the iPad and marketing some form of roll-out or foldable keyboard for it, I might seriously consider buying one. But as it stands, it seems Apple is pointing the MacBook Air in my direction, and that just looks like an inadequate laptop.
OS X is different that iOS when you get above he Darwin layer, if I understand the OS architecture. I correctly (I am not an OS X or iOS dev; just a user). I'm pretty sure that Quartz and OpenGL (not to mention GCD and OpenCL) are nowhere to be found in iOS, either. Since iOS is a "windowless" OS, I would imagine all the window-management stuff is out as well. With that in mind, I'm pretty sure that, even disregarding the cross-compiling issues for x86 vs. ARM, that OS X would REALLY suck on something as lightweight in processing-power as the iPad. I don't know where the ARM9 Cortex core is as far as throughput per GHz compared to, say a Core2Duo; but I'm pretty damn sure that you would not have the zippy, fluid experience that people love about the iPad, if it ran bog-standard OS X.
br> In fact, that has been the reason that the iOS devices have been so pleasant for the user; because Apple wisely didn't take the easy way out, and just throw hardware at the problem; instead, they really tightly optimized both the hardware AND OS design.
And that's what sets it apart. I'm sure that Apple looked at the issue long and hard before embarking on the iOS project; and I'm also sure that the very first thing they tried was to recompile OS X for ARM, and give that a go... No one wants to maintain TWO OSes; but at least Apple was smart enough to realize that it was the only practical solution.
although, to be fair, I could not find contract-less purchasing for an iPad 2.
All iPads are contract-less. You are paying full price for the hardware, and own it outright. With a subsidized Xoom, you enter into a contract and are giving a discount in exchange for the promise of two years of payment or the payment of an ETF of $350.
tl;dr: XOOM is less expensive, spec-for-spec unless you're buying it without a contract.
So, the one case scenario where the Xoom is cheaper is if you compare the subsidized Xoom with the unsubsidized iPad (hardly fair, but at least subsidy is an option with the Xoom, so there's that for now). In every other scenario, the iPad is cheaper. If Verizon (or AT&T) were to offer a subsidized iPad, you'd find that iPad to still be much cheaper than a Xoom.
Why butt yourself into other people's choices?
I didn't butt into anyones choice. I asked a simple question regarding your post which apparently you don't have an answer for.
When you ask someone to justify their purchase to do, butting in is exactly what you are doing.
Reading is not nearly as pleasant on my iPad as it is on the eInk devices I've seen.
You asked why it's better than a netbook.
And the form factor is not comfortable for reading.
It's *fantastic* form factor for reading. Vastly superior to a netbook.
And how often do people "view photos" when they're on the way to work or on a plane?
What is your problem? Every time I tell you of a scenario it's better, you bring up one where it's irrelevant. Do you think the only time I use my iPad is at work or on a plane? What about when I'm visiting friends and family, or they are visiting me.
This is why I say you aren't simply asking honest questions, but have a clear agenda. You are Fox News.
Are you telling me that "viewing photos" is a major reason for owning an iPad instead of a netbook costing only 1/4 as much?
Ignoring your faulty math, yes, it's *A* major reason. I listed more than one, and my list wasn't complete. But given your reluctance to engage in an honest discussion, I don't expect any of that to matter to you.
It's more convenient than a notebook or a netbook, and it's better than on a phone. Why do you find it so difficult to understand that not everyone is like you? This is a very simple concept.
don't act like people who buy them are trendy fools tricked by "coolness"
All I asked was how multitouch made web browsing easier.
You've failed yet again to answer my very simple question. (Regarding your non-answer: touch != mutitouch)
You'd think with replies as long as yours, you could manage to address my questions.
You're being deliberately obtuse. I answered your question. The *multitouch* interface of the iPad removes an abstraction barrier between the user and the content. Just because a non-multitouch touch interface does that (although not nearly as well), does not invalidate my answer.
don't care if people don't like Apple or their products
Apparently you do.
Actually, I don't whatsoever. If you hate Apple and don't want to buy one of their products, I'm perfectly happy for you, and wish you the best with whatever products you do buy. But I do care when you give people shit for liking something you don't. You're a standard arrogant geek who thinks anyone who has a different opinion from you is wrong. I don't tell you what to like, or that you are wrong for liking it. If you want to run a CLI on a netbook, what do I care? If you want to use a TabletPC, good for you. I truly, honestly, and completely don't care. It doesn't harm me in the least, and gives you what you prefer.
On the other hand, if I say that I prefer the iPad to a netbook, you ask me to justify my choices to you. Why is that?
What argument? Your incoherent rambling didn't even begin to address my question. This could have something to do with your bizarre idea of what a task is.
Here's a clue: Using your definition, a truck would be considered a task. Sorry, if you're that incompetent, I can't help you.
Required reading for internet skeptics
It's absolutely impossible to have a rational discussion with someone like you. You "discuss" things like Fox News. You only look at things from one point of view. You "accept" that there are other points of view, but they just all happen to be wrong or trivial (i.e., iPad is an "expensive" (a negative) "toy" (triviality)).
And I don't think the iPad is "bad" or anything like that. I just believe it's still an expensive toy
Yes, because "expensive toy" isn't a put-down...
Further, it's impossible to use an iPad with one hand, like while standing on the train, which is when it could be most useful.
This is the funniest thing about your posts. You always come up with one thing that is completely not apropos of anything and completely non sequitur to itself.
Can you use your netbook with one hand on the train? Which completely begs the question of whether you only have one hand on a train in the first place. Even standing on a commuter train, one can spare a second hand to scroll text and click on links, etc., as needed.
You start with the conclusion, then spout out whatever scenario fits that conclusion, consistency be damned! How is an iPad better than a netbook? I answer this, so you reply that it's worse than an eink reader. If I tell you how it's better than an ereader, you tell me it's not as good as a netbook!
I'd like to hear you justify physical paperback books. Oh, it's easier to flip to a page? Well, you can't fit thousands of books in one paperback! It's only $5 to replace if you lose it? But can it surf the web?
Then take the other position and defend an ereader against a paperback. You can download any book you want without going to the store? Well, my paperback doesn't run out of batteries. You can look up words inline? Well, I can read my paperback in direct sunlight.
On the other hand, if I say that I prefer the iPad to a netbook, you ask me to justify my choices to you. Why is that?
Why do you feel the need to put words in my mouth?
I never asked you to justify your choice. I only asked you how multitouch made web browsing easier.
You didn't answer that question. Sorry, but you didn't. You answered for touch (Sure, easier if you think so.I personally think it makes things more difficult, especially for small target areas. But that's pure opinion.)
Just because a non-multitouch touch interface does that (although not nearly as well), does not invalidate my answer.
Well, if you think multitouch makes browsing the web easier than regular touch, then I'd say that your answer is quite clearly invalid as it doesn't address the question.
So... how does multitouch make the webbrowsing easier? This isn't a difficult.
Required reading for internet skeptics
So the answer is No, you can't think of a need best filled by a tablet.
That's all I asked. Why is it so difficult for you to answer simple questions?
Required reading for internet skeptics
Ehm no, I wasn't talking about "tasks"; you just can't read. I was talking about a tablet's job; i.e. its purpose, which is to provide a solution for a range of tasks. Because being the best device for some individual task is irrelevant to a general-purpose device, and hence a dumbass question. One could equally ask for what individual task a netbook is the best suited.
But for all that you pretend nobody's answering your questions, I note you still haven't answered mine. With all the requirements I specified, what device would do the job better than a tablet? As already demonstrated, a touchscreen netbook would not meet the orientability requirement. Want to try again, or go back to evading with puerile insults?
When you ask someone to justify their purchase to do, butting in is exactly what you are doing.
I never asked you to justify your purchase. My question, which you are unwilling or unable to answer, was the entirety of my post:
What job, exactly, is the iPad the best tool for?
See? Nowhere in that post do I ask you to justify your purchase.
So... do you have an answer?
Required reading for internet skeptics
you just can't read.
I can't read? You're the one who completely misinterpreted my rather lucid post. Don't blame me for your shortcomings.
As for that other nonsense, I don't care. Though I would like to point out an error you've made:
As already demonstrated, a touchscreen netbook would not meet the orientability requirement
Which is totally untrue. Hybrids, netbooks, laptops, and desktops can all change the screen orientation.
So, yeah, unlike you -- who apparently didn't even understand my very simple question -- I've answered yours. Which is hilarious, as you did your best job to describe a tablet with your play-pretend criteria.
Now go troll someone else. You bore me.
Required reading for internet skeptics
you just can't read.
I can't read? You're the one who completely misinterpreted my rather lucid post. Don't blame me for your shortcomings.
I really don't. I blame you for your woefully misplaced sense of superiority.
As for that other nonsense, I don't care. Though I would like to point out an error you've made:
As already demonstrated, a touchscreen netbook would not meet the orientability requirement
Which is totally untrue. Hybrids, netbooks, laptops, and desktops can all change the screen orientation.
And smartphones can run remote desktop and word processing software, but they're not very good at it. A netbook in portrait mode is a kludge. I asked for a device that was better for the task, and that ain't it, no matter how you spin it.
So, yeah, unlike you -- who apparently didn't even understand my very simple question -- I've answered yours. Which is hilarious, as you did your best job to describe a tablet with your play-pretend criteria.
Wrong on all counts. Your question was answered even if you lack the wits to understand that. You failed to come up with a device that meets my requirements better than a tablet. And nope, there's nothing play-pretend about the reasons I chose a tablet over a netbook.
Now go troll someone else. You bore me.
Children have such short attention spans these days.
Man, that's harsh. OK, I'm sorry. The iPad2 is the greatest piece of consumer technology since the iPad.
Just please don't compare me to Fox News again. Please. I'm sorry that I ever suggested that I didn't think my iPad was fantastic for reading on the bus or that when I get together with friends and family I don't immediately reach for my iPad.
I agree. Absolutely.
Tell you what: if you promise not to call me "Fox News" again, you can have my 8gig iPad. I don't know what I'll tell my friends and family the next time they come over to look at it, but I just can't take the Fox News comparisons.
I won't do it again, promise.
You are welcome on my lawn.
You failed to come up with a device that meets my requirements better than a tablet
Your idiotic little game? Where you DON'T describe the task you want to perform, but the features of the device that you *imagine* will let you best accomplish your as-yet unnamed task?
Honestly, you couldn't be more transparent.
I have better things to do with my time that play your silly little game. If you're not interested in answering my question, them I'm done with you.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Your question: "If you can find a need (not a want) that is best filled by iPad-style tablets, then feel free to share."
I described what I needed in a device. Needs aren't restricted to tasks. If you meant to ask for a list of tasks for which a tablet is best suited, that would be more difficult, I would have to concede. My principal uses of my tablet are eReading, remote desktop access, web browsing, e-mail/forum/blog writing. No one of these tasks is best handled by a tablet, and while one could argue that the inclusion of eReading in the list might mark it out in some eyes as the best hybrid device to cover all those tasks, that would be open to interpretation.
But this is why, when you asked for needs, I didn't focus solely on tasks. What tasks a device can perform is only half the story; how it performs them is just as important. Factors like portability, input method, battery life, startup time, efficiency of UI and so on are what for me elevate good tablets far above netbooks or any other ultraportable. My tablet performs each of the above tasks, performs them well, and in addition meets my criteria for each of the above non-task based needs. No other device does so as well.
But that is only speaking for myself; I wouldn't dream of telling you a tablet would suit your own needs more than whatever devices you currently use. I simply ask that others extend me (and the millions of other people whose requirements led them to buy a tablet) the same courtesy.
ever heard of; log off, timeout and security token.
ever heard of; log off, timeout and security token.
Of course. However, timeouts are either too short to be useful or too long to be safe.
and extra skinny fingers.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
You are banging your head against an itard. Don't expect a logical discussion involving any fact.
No one wants to maintain TWO OSes; but at least Apple was smart enough to realize that it was the only practical solution.
True. For now. Sooner or later, it will presumably become possible to miniaturise the technology suffiently to do the job - I guess I'm just expecting too much, too soon.
My expectations are partly based on the fact that over the last couple of years, since I am no longer working with huge databases or doing the molecular modelling of my student days, my processing demands have taken a big drop, so I no longer need the horsepower of my big Linux desktop box, which is why this oldish second-hand MacBook has worked pretty well for me, except when playing around with graphics rendering.