PS3 Hacker Claims He's Jailbroken 3.60 Firmware

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PS3 Hacker Claims He's Jailbroken 3.60 Firmware

Posted by samzenpus on Thursday March 17, 2011 @04:35AM from the what-took-so-long? dept.

Wesociety writes "Not one week ago Sony released a new PlayStation 3 firmware update which implemented cloud-saving for its PlayStation Plus subscribers and featured some understandably secretive behind-the-scenes security features meant to prevent future hacking. Today, a hacker is purporting that he broke firmware 3.60 and posted a video to prove it."

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Unbreakable? by Drakkenmensch · 2011-03-17 04:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

The more you increase your security to keep hackers out, the more feverishly they'll work to take down what they see as a challenge.
1. Re:Unbreakable? by abigsmurf · 2011-03-17 04:50 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  The more hassle it is to play catchup, the less people who'll use firmware hacks for piracy. Sony don't have to win, they just have to put up a fight.
2. Re:Unbreakable? by grumbel · 2011-03-17 04:54 · Score: 1
  
  That only works until they have all their holes plugged. See Xbox, homebrew on Xbox1 was extremely popular, homebrew on Xbox360 has a far harder time, as it doesn't work at all with modern Xbox360 and even with older models requires hardware modifications and that is with a console that has been on the market for five years. Sony will certainly have learned their lessons with PS3 and PSP and won't make the same mistakes again. So I wouldn't count to much on hackers breaking the security of whatever comes next, as past successes where in large parts based on the developers not really putting any real effort into the security, not on all security being breakable.
3. Re:Unbreakable? by Nocturnal+Deviant · 2011-03-17 05:15 · Score: 2
  
  That is the entire point of hacking in general, to satisfy curiosity. At least true hacking.
  
  --
  -Noc
4. Re:Unbreakable? by Osgeld · 2011-03-17 05:23 · Score: 2
  
  yea that worked well for the psp
5. Re:Unbreakable? by GNious · 2011-03-17 05:32 · Score: 1
  
  When I did admin at a school, a kid promised to take down our security once we installed it - I decided to not bother (was before Win95). In the end we had no issues.
6. Re:Unbreakable? by abigsmurf · 2011-03-17 05:34 · Score: 1
  
  The PSP got broken at a fundamental HW level and it happened to allow a mod that didn't require any soldering.
7. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:35 · Score: 0
  
  > That only works until they have all their holes plugged.
  Heh. Heh heh. *snert*
8. Re:Unbreakable? by rainmouse · 2011-03-17 05:39 · Score: 1
  
  That is the entire point of hacking in general, to satisfy curiosity. At least true hacking.
  In most cases like this, its esteem and bragging rights and not necessarily curiosity.
  It is a nice side effect when people can have proper access to the devices they purchase but unfortunately it also has the negative side effect of seriously damaging honest users online gaming experience, especially when all the cheating begins.
9. Re:Unbreakable? by rainmouse · 2011-03-17 05:40 · Score: 1
  
  The more hassle it is to play catchup, the less people who'll use firmware hacks for piracy. Sony don't have to win, they just have to put up a fight.
  Also worth noting that Sony absolutely will not give up on this when the teams involved in blocking these hacks can justify a blank cheque budget by scaremongering their bosses with notions of limitless piracy.
10. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:41 · Score: 1
  
  And the more hackers will put together elegant solutions. To tether in iOS 2, you had to set up ssh tunneling over a private wireless network. In iOS 3, setting up tethering involved finding and changing preference files in sometimes random ways until it worked (the released changed preference files often were off by a digit or two somewhere because of AT&T network configurations). In iOS 4, there's a program for $20 in Cydia that does it for you.
  Same thing with the actual Jailbreaking. PwnageTool is easier to use and nicer looking than many apps in the Mac App Store...
  Once someone releases an XMBC or Boxee setup linux ISO disc with the jailbreak built-in, and all you have to do is burn, insert, click a few buttons, and wait, I bet a bunch more people than just nerds who want the PS3 they paid for back (guilty) and cheaters/game copiers (not guilty) will be jailbreaking their PS3.
11. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:42 · Score: 0
  
  Man, you were definitely a great admin. I especially like how your "security" consisted of one thing that you were going to install. And no, I don't care that this was pre Win95; if it was pre Win1.0 you were still a failure.
12. Re:Unbreakable? by Buelldozer · 2011-03-17 06:01 · Score: 2
  
  Are you sure?
  Just because they seemed to do a good job THIS time is no guarantee that they will do a good job NEXT time!
  Whenever you release new hardware or new software it's a fresh opportunity for mistakes to be made.
  It's just as probable that the next generation consoles will not be significantly more secure than this generations are.
13. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 06:07 · Score: 0
  
  In most cases like this, its esteem and bragging rights and not necessarily curiosity.
  Which is why this pisses me off. I am getting sick of having to install new firmware every time I want to watch something on netflix just so that some insecure jerk can feel better about himself.
  If you want to hack your machine, build a computer. Console hacking is like hitting a square peg through a round hole; sure you can do it if you're persistent, but is it really worth it?
14. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 06:15 · Score: 0
  
  Longer than I care to remember...
15. Re:Unbreakable? by GameboyRMH · 2011-03-17 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  Which is why this pisses me off. I am getting sick of having to install new firmware every time I want to watch something on netflix just so that some insecure jerk can feel better about himself.
  The "jerk" who had the audacity to break the DRM or the jerk who insists on requiring the use of DRM?
  
  --
  "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
16. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 06:20 · Score: 0
  
  Heh, well played.
  I was referring to the first jerk, of coarse. The other jerk is motivated by money, not personal glory.
17. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 06:22 · Score: 0
  
  The more you increase your security to keep hackers out, the more feverishly they'll work to take down what they see as a challenge.
  
  CALLING ALL HACKERS
  Direct TV's encryption scheme is impossible to compromise!
18. Re:Unbreakable? by CharlieHedlin · 2011-03-17 06:23 · Score: 1
  
  Sony previously avoided the war entirely. Having Other OS kept a great deal of hackers at bay. The problem was a few too many restrictions and tinkers who wanted more power. They would have left the security intact had the system not been crippled from the OtherOS.
  Sony should have left well enough alone, fixed the hole, allowed access that people were looking for, and retained Other OS. The war would have quickly fizzled.
  As it is now my family gripes every time the thing requires an update to connect and I'm ready to abandon the PS3 completely. I still have a 10GB partition with Linux that I can't use.
19. Re:Unbreakable? by Drakkenmensch · 2011-03-17 06:25 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  It's just as probable that the next generation consoles will not be significantly more secure than this generations are.
  True, just listen to what these companies say about their current gen being hacked beyond hope but the NEXT gen being "too hard to crack THIS time"... it always ends up like Doctor Klaw waving his armored fist and yelling "I'll get you next time, Gadget, NEXT TIME!!!"
20. Re:Unbreakable? by Bert64 · 2011-03-17 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  And yet, piracy is rampant on the xbox 360 thanks to the ability to flash the dvd reader...
  In fact, there is very little reason for piracy on the ps3, most games are available for the 360 so anyone serious about pirated games will have already gone down that route years ago. It's not really worth the cost of a ps3 for the very limited number of exclusives, even if you save the price of the games themselves by pirating them.
  
  --
  http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
21. Re:Unbreakable? by Bert64 · 2011-03-17 06:48 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I haven't "hacked" my console...
  All i have done is fixed it..
  When i bought it, it was sold to me on the basis that i can play games on it *and* run linux. I don't play a lot of games (i have 5 for it) but i did want to play gran turismo 5, despite that game saying it's for "ps3", by default i can't play it on the ps3 without sacrificing the ability to run linux...
  It doesn't state anywhere on the box that i would have to sacrifice one of the functions i bought the ps3 for in order to continue using another...
  I don't play games online with it, but if i wanted to that would be even more ridiculous...
  So in the end i have to install a hacked firmware so that i can continue using linux on the ps3 and still play legitimately purchased newer games...
  I am probably going to sell my legitimately purchased copy of GT5 and continue playing a pirate copy out of principle - and pirate any future games i want to play, sony don't deserve any more of my money if this is how they treat paying customers.
  
  --
  http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
22. Re:Unbreakable? by grumbel · 2011-03-17 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  And yet, piracy is rampant on the xbox 360 thanks to the ability to flash the dvd reader...
  Yeah, but piracy is a quite different thing then homebrew. The thing with piracy is that it is hard to stop, the binaries are signed and official after all, so as long as you can somehow get the bytes into the machine, be it by hacked DVD firmware or whatever, you are fine and the pirate copy will run. Homebrew is much harder as even when you can get the data to the machine, it will simply be refused due to an invalid signature and working around that can be anything from quite tricky to being pretty much impossible.
23. Re:Unbreakable? by hAckz0r · 2011-03-17 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  In security circles it is a well established fact that if someone gains physical access to a system then you can't trust its security. That is Sony's problem. Any purchaser of any gaming system HAS physical access, and nothing can prevent them from gaining access to the internals of the system, both electronic and software. Anybody that suggest that software can protect itself from a well determined hacker is just blowing smoke and is right on par with an old time snake oil salesman. Even if Sony embedded their super-duper-secrets inside of a magic IC chip, and sealed it, that chip can be opened and reverse engineered, altered and or replaced. Don't believe it? Google for Flylogic Engineering and see how its done. They have a great blog on their site if you are into chip level reverse engineering and security. My thing is software security, and I have yet to see something that can't be reversed.
24. Re:Unbreakable? by mazesc · 2011-03-17 06:56 · Score: 1
  
  So you mean it is not Sony's fault then? Because if I remember correctly their random number usage was totally flawed and therefore it was no real challenge.
  Obligatory http://xkcd.com/221/
25. Re:Unbreakable? by Osgeld · 2011-03-17 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  funny, I have never hard mod my psp, always used a game exploit
  now later on yea there is the pandora battery, but the softmod's were out years beforehand
26. Re:Unbreakable? by marcosdumay · 2011-03-17 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  Piracy is the excuse those companies are giving for putting all that DRM into our throats. If it doesn't stop piracy, why are they botering?
  And, yes, the question was rethoric.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
27. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 07:11 · Score: 0
  
  The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.
28. Re:Unbreakable? by Travelsonic · 2011-03-17 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  Homebrew is much harder as even when you can get the data to the machine, it will simply be refused due to an invalid signature and working around that can be anything from quite tricky to being pretty much impossible.
  Hard yes, but never impossible. Question: What would stop somebody from spoofing a valid signature?
  
  --
  If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
29. Re:Unbreakable? by dgatwood · 2011-03-17 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  For anyone who doesn't know the answer and is thus confused by your comment, if the numbers I've read are correct, Sony brings in $7 per copy for every game from every publisher.
  Thus, Sony stands to lose lose somewhere on the order of half a billion dollars per year if developers find that they can practically develop games for PS3 without paying the royalty fee.
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
30. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 08:11 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Hassle? What hassle? Maybe I'm naive (I'm not), but the best hackers that actually crack this stuff are not normally major players in the piracy scenes. They do it for the lulz and the notoriety.
  I busted my PS2 years and years ago trying to solder something in. That was a hassle. Then not 3 months later someone released a softhack that runs off a USB stick. Got a new machine and it works perfectly ever since. First-run hacks are a hassle. Wait long enough and somebody will put together a GUI auto-installer. There's got to be some kind of internet rule for that.
  For a user into homebrew or running "image backups" there's no playing catch up, there is only waiting for the next patch that is confirmed to work. Which is really only a hassle for kids that don't have anything else to do except play every new game the day of release, or people like me into obscure arcade ROMs that nobody is in a hurry to make run properly.
31. Re:Unbreakable? by overlordofmu · 2011-03-17 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  Mu.
32. Re:Unbreakable? by networkBoy · 2011-03-17 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  A lot of math on hard crypto.
  
  --
  whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
33. Re:Unbreakable? by trewornan · 2011-03-17 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  we had no issues - that I knew of
  Fixed that for you.
34. Re:Unbreakable? by shentino · 2011-03-17 08:54 · Score: 1
  
  Zero seconds.
35. Re:Unbreakable? by BoberFett · 2011-03-17 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  What's the difference to you? Even if the glory jerk disappears, the money jerk is still going to want more money. And they seem to keep finding new ways to be bigger jerks to make more money. So frankly, I'm glad that at we have the glory jerk on the consumers side.
36. Re:Unbreakable? by tlhIngan · 2011-03-17 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  That only works until they have all their holes plugged. See Xbox, homebrew on Xbox1 was extremely popular, homebrew on Xbox360 has a far harder time, as it doesn't work at all with modern Xbox360 and even with older models requires hardware modifications and that is with a console that has been on the market for five years. Sony will certainly have learned their lessons with PS3 and PSP and won't make the same mistakes again. So I wouldn't count to much on hackers breaking the security of whatever comes next, as past successes where in large parts based on the developers not really putting any real effort into the security, not on all security being breakable.
  Actually, homebrew on the Xbox360 is officially supported - Microsoft provides the tools and everything. To run it on a real Xbox360 requires $99/year, but it's homebrew.
  In fact, it's quite popular leading to the same problem that the Apple App Store and the Google Android Marketplace has - there's just so much stuff it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.
  XNA
  Microsoft XNA site
  Sure it's not the full thing (it doesn't do leaderboards, Live networking or gamerscore) but it's still a supported mechanism, and games can be sold too. The only approval process is that of your peers.
  That's pretty much why there's very few people working on native homebrew - why do it when Microsoft provides a supported mechanism?
37. Re:Unbreakable? by Anthony+Mouse · 2011-03-17 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  I busted my PS2 years and years ago trying to solder something in. That was a hassle. Then not 3 months later someone released a softhack that runs off a USB stick. Got a new machine and it works perfectly ever since. First-run hacks are a hassle. Wait long enough and somebody will put together a GUI auto-installer. There's got to be some kind of internet rule for that.
  Really what happens is that there is something enabled by rooting the machine that isn't possible without it, e.g. running Linux or Myth TV or whatever. So somebody finds a way to root the system, and once that is possible, people start writing programs to do those things.
  Once you have e.g. Myth TV PS3 edition, lots of people want to run it, so someone creates an idiot proof installer to automate everything. And from then on, every time there is a new hack, the authors just paste it into the section of code that does the rooting and all the idiot proofing is still there and ready to go.
38. Re:Unbreakable? by tlhIngan · 2011-03-17 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  The more hassle it is to play catchup, the less people who'll use firmware hacks for piracy. Sony don't have to win, they just have to put up a fight.
  It depends. Some hacked firmware requires starting from a hacked firmware, so you have to install a patched one, then upgrade. As long as you can install the old revision, you're set.
  Others you just install the hacked one as a regular update, in which case you do it as a regular firmware update.
  And people will jump through all sorts of hoops to pirate - as long as there's a HOWTO, they'll do it. You'll be surprised how technically adept people can be for the promise of free games. (Good and bad - because they'll install all sorts of crap - like OpenSSH with default passwords (many jailbroken iOS devices were vulnerable), but hey.)
39. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 09:47 · Score: 0
  
  What's the difference to you?
  Ethically speaking, not much. Not every story has a "good guy" and a "bad guy".
  As a practical matter, it annoys me that I have to deal with constant firmware updates. This was not the case before people started putting serious effort into jailbreaking, so yeah, I am going to be resentful towards someone who feels the need to force yet another one just so he can say 'look at me and mah 1337 skillz'. He is not on our side, he's just stroking his own ego.
40. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 09:48 · Score: 0
  
  The more hassle it is to play catchup, the less people who'll use firmware hacks for piracy. Sony don't have to win, they just have to put up a fight.
  But to the people trying to break the security it's not a hassle, it's fun. And once it's out, it's out for everyone (hobbyists and pirates alike).
41. Re:Unbreakable? by atomicbutterfly · 2011-03-17 11:01 · Score: 1
  
  I am probably going to sell my legitimately purchased copy of GT5 and continue playing a pirate copy out of principle - and pirate any future games i want to play, sony don't deserve any more of my money if this is how they treat paying customers.
  IMHO, the true measure of someone who has principles is someone who is also prepared to GO WITHOUT to prove their point and reinforce their position.. I'm not suggesting you have to abandon your PS3 entirely for what Sony has done, but if you decide to sell your GT5 and then continue to play using a pirated copy, and even worse, pirate any future games you want to play, it's hardly a principled stance. It's just more ammunition for Sony and less for your credentials.
42. Re:Unbreakable? by exomondo · 2011-03-17 11:36 · Score: 1
  
  Thus, Sony stands to lose lose somewhere on the order of half a billion dollars per year if developers find that they can practically develop games for PS3 without paying the royalty fee.
  And if that happens there's pretty much no point in Sony even making a console at all.
43. Re:Unbreakable? by exomondo · 2011-03-17 11:39 · Score: 1
  
  That only works until they have all their holes plugged. See Xbox, homebrew on Xbox1 was extremely popular, homebrew on Xbox360 has a far harder time, as it doesn't work at all with modern Xbox360 and even with older models requires hardware modifications and that is with a console that has been on the market for five years.
  If you mean non-Microsoft supported homebrew then yes, but why would you need that when MS actively supports homebrew on their platform?
44. Re:Unbreakable? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 11:52 · Score: 0
  
  My thing is software security, and I have yet to see something that can't be reversed.
  So what you're saying is One-way Encryption doesn't exist.
45. Re:Unbreakable? by mug+funky · 2011-03-17 14:01 · Score: 1
  
  The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems slip through your fingers.
46. Re:Unbreakable? by Psykechan · 2011-03-17 18:01 · Score: 1
  
  Contact third party developers that work closely with Sony like Insomniac Games, Sucker Punch Studios, and Atlus and let them know that because of Sony's terrible practices that you will no longer be able to purchase their products while they are Sony exclusives.
  Contact Sony owned studios like Media Molecule and Naughty Dog and let them know that you can't support them anymore.
  Contact smaller and indie developers and let them know too. Slam Bolt Scrappers may look cool, but let Fire Hose games know that you can't play it. Indie developers may be the most receptive of the whole situation as a lost sale to them means a lot more.
  Starve the PS3 of exclusive games and Sony will hurt quite a bit.
47. Re:Unbreakable? by grumbel · 2011-03-17 18:50 · Score: 1
  
  Piracy is the excuse those companies are giving for putting all that DRM into our throats. If it doesn't stop piracy, why are they botering?
  As far as physical media goes, both PS3 and Xbox360 are still DRM free. They contain copy protection and they make it impossible to run your own code, but they don't actively do DRM for their Blurays and DVDs, which is why selling a used PS3/Xbox360 game is still possible, while selling a Valve game is not.
  Now of course in the next generation that might change, it shouldn't be that hard to just stick a serial number onto DVD or Bluray and Internet as a requirement might sooner or later happen as well.
  And when you want a really creepy future vision: Imagine Xbox720 Kinect counting how many people watch a movie and stop playing it when to many are in the room...
48. Re:Unbreakable? by grumbel · 2011-03-17 19:01 · Score: 1
  
  Hard yes, but never impossible. Question: What would stop somebody from spoofing a valid signature?
  The time to crack a proper signature is in the millions or billions of years, i.e. completely impossible for practical purposes. The reason why Sony got into trouble is because they failed at their crypto and forget to put random numbers into it. You could of course try to change the keys stored for the verification in the machine, but that could quickly become completely impractical as well, as you might need to dig trough layers of epoxy or drill into some chips or whatever. The reason why it worked in the past is because they had basically hidden backdoors lying around (PSP had pandora battery, others had JTAG interfaces, etc.), when they get rid of those, you have a problem.
49. Re:Unbreakable? by grumbel · 2011-03-17 19:09 · Score: 1
  
  The thing is: They don't have to make it 100% unhackable, they just have to get close enough to make it completely impractical for a regular person. If its no longer about using a hacked savegame and instead requires a microscope, digging through epoxy, unsoldering chips and corrode away the chip chasing, you can be pretty sure that homebrew won't be all that popular anymore.
50. Re:Unbreakable? by grumbel · 2011-03-17 19:12 · Score: 1
  
  If you mean non-Microsoft supported homebrew then yes, but why would you need that when MS actively supports homebrew on their platform?
  XNA is a very limited platform. Yes, you can do games on it. But you can't do a Linux on it or just recompile your favorite mediaplayer for it, i.e. the things where homebrew is commonly used for.
51. Re:Unbreakable? by GNious · 2011-03-17 20:00 · Score: 1
  
  the school had bought/copied/copyright-infringed a single tool that we could use. Besides this, there was little we could ultimately do.
  Also see comment below.
52. Re:Unbreakable? by GNious · 2011-03-17 20:01 · Score: 1
  
  true - not that we didn't look, but we really didn't find anything big.
  This setup was isolated to a single "lab", where students could use the PCs (286s/386s, no network, WP5+Autocad) pretty much as they wanted, and we'd go in and correct any problems (reinstall basically) if any were found.
  The more official labs (pure 386s - yay), used for teaching, had a tighter setup, and somehow ran worse (students had installed additional stuff, messed up existing setups), but these were thankfully outside of my domain.
53. Re:Unbreakable? by Terrasque · 2011-03-17 21:27 · Score: 1
  
  Wait, what? Go without what? Principles?
  He says that out of principle, he will continue to use his PS3 for what he bought it for, in spite of what Sony thinks (and for him to do that, he *have* to get a pirate copy. He tried a legitimate copy, but that refuse to run).
  And then you say the true measure of one's principle is not to follow one's principle...
  I have to ask you : Are you really that retarded, or did you just copy/paste some standard mantra without involving your brain?
  
  --
  It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
54. Re:Unbreakable? by bhtooefr · 2011-03-17 22:32 · Score: 1
  
  There's always going the OnLive route - basically, don't give people physical access, just give them a thin client.
55. Re:Unbreakable? by bhtooefr · 2011-03-17 22:35 · Score: 1
  
  Snap the disc and go without.
  The game is designed to sell DLC, therefore, if someone else buys it, they might buy DLC, supporting Sony.
  If you snap it in half, nobody can play that game - you take a loss, but you guarantee that Sony won't get any further income.
56. Re:Unbreakable? by drinkypoo · 2011-03-18 01:29 · Score: 1
  
  The more hassle it is to play catchup, the less people who'll use firmware hacks for piracy. Sony don't have to win, they just have to put up a fight.
  The more Sony rushes to put out new firmware the more mistakes they will make, the more consoles they will brick, and the more enemies they will make. Continually attacking Sony is a viable means of reducing their cachet in the marketplace. Also, the hardest of the core has a tendency towards hacking consoles, and they make purchasing recommendations which are relevant to other gamers.
  Nintendo has been waging a low-level battle against homebrew but have never taken it very seriously. Hopefully that trend will continue. I eagerly await the ability to run Linux on Wii Next, which hopefully will have more RAM. (I am quite happy with the CPU, for my intended purposes.)
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
57. Re:Unbreakable? by marcosdumay · 2011-03-18 01:44 · Score: 1
  
  The meaning you are attibuting to DRM is clearly different from mine.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
They're watching you by lordgun · 2011-03-17 04:40 · Score: 2

According to Mathieulh, Sony is smart: they're let you log into PSN if you are using the old authentification method from 3.55... and flag you as a thief. http://twitter.com/#!/Mathieulh
1. Re:They're watching you by Hatta · 2011-03-17 04:47 · Score: 1
  
  Why would you log onto PSN with a modded console?
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
2. Re:They're watching you by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 04:48 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  * Netflix
  * Multiplayer gaming
3. Re:They're watching you by Even+on+Slashdot+FOE · 2011-03-17 04:49 · Score: 2
  
  Because you want the latest DLC.
  And you're an idiot.
4. Re:They're watching you by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:14 · Score: 1
  
  Modding an overpriced pc clone to act like a pc. Who's the idiot? Overpriced shitty hardware that is filled with DRM. I'll ask again, who's the idiot? Online games are are joke with these consoles. You have no control of your aiming, or anything that takes fine motor skills. First person shooters, PC wins and you get a clearer picture and better framerates. Flying games, PC wins when using a real flightstick. Real time strategy, PC wins due to the slowness and poor targeting of units with a shitty controller. Consoles suck unless you just want a quick way with no attention to detail or are playing motion games like golf or whatever.
5. Re:They're watching you by SuricouRaven · 2011-03-17 05:39 · Score: 2
  
  Games consoles owe their origins to the arcade, and that legacy lives on in the form of arcade-like controls. The keyboard+mouse combo provides by far the best set for FPSs and RTSs. On flight sims and racing games the console does have the edge with stock controls - the analog stick provides far superior fine control for those games. Achieving that on PC requires additional hardware.
6. Re:They're watching you by Eponymous+Coward · 2011-03-17 06:31 · Score: 1
  
  The PS3 has some pretty neat hardware. Tell me, what other machine can I buy if I want to dig into Cell programming?
7. Re:They're watching you by RockoTDF · 2011-03-17 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  Or, Consoles win because they are cheaper. You can buy a console for x hundred dollars on release day and play everything that comes out for 3 to 5 years (or beyond, these days). Could you say the same of a PC you built yourself on the same day? And while we are at it, a lot of people aren't "serious" gamers, and therefore would be idiots to shell out thousands on a PC when they could spend hundreds on a console. Plus, you can't have a crowd over and all play on the same PC in the same room. Sure you can have LAN parties, but if you just want to school your friend at Madden or call of duty over a beer, toting over a rig is kind of a hassle.
  
  --
  There is more to science than physics!
  
  www.iomalfunction.blogspot.com
8. Re:They're watching you by vux984 · 2011-03-17 11:50 · Score: 1
  
  The PS3 has some pretty neat hardware. Tell me, what other machine can I buy if I want to dig into Cell programming?
  At this point, if you don't want to write software for the PS3, what do you really care about digging into cell programming for?
9. Re:They're watching you by exomondo · 2011-03-17 11:57 · Score: 1
  
  The PS3 has some pretty neat hardware. Tell me, what other machine can I buy if I want to dig into Cell programming?
  Just buy a Cell Accelerator Board. Sure it's more expensive, but you're not tied to a non-upgradeable machine chocked full of DRM that prevents access to certain components.
10. Re:They're watching you by Eponymous+Coward · 2011-03-17 14:24 · Score: 1
  
  A PS3 is an order of magnitude less expensive than a Cell Accelerator Board ($7000). Plus I already have a PS3 and it does other nifty stuff like play Pandora through my stereo. If you are building a cluster, an order of magnitude difference starts to seem quite large.
  There were quite a few people who built large computing clusters using the PS3. They chose the PS3 because it was cheap and because Sony was projecting a 10 year lifecycle (ie replacements would be available for a long time). At the time, nobody could have predicted that Sony would start dropping features from the PS3, including OtherOS support.
11. Re:They're watching you by Eponymous+Coward · 2011-03-17 14:30 · Score: 1
  
  It's a hard thing to explain to somebody who isn't a programmer. Read the wikipedia page on the Cell microprocessor for a pretty good description of what makes the Cell so cool and why you might want to do it. It's a little like asking somebody who plays a musical instrument why they bother if they aren't getting paid to do so.
12. Re:They're watching you by exomondo · 2011-03-17 14:57 · Score: 1
  
  A PS3 is an order of magnitude less expensive than a Cell Accelerator Board ($7000).
  Yes i quite clearly said that, but that wasn't a requirement of your post. The PCIe card means you get warranty, you get less failure points, you get support, you don't have to mod it just to make it work, etc...
  
  Plus I already have a PS3 and it does other nifty stuff like play Pandora through my stereo.
  So? You asked about an alternative to the PS3 for Cell BE development.
  
  If you are building a cluster, an order of magnitude difference starts to seem quite large.
  If you are building a cluster you get volume pricing from Mercury (which is a massive discount) and if you're building a cluster you're unlikely to be happy with modding an overpriced pc clone just to get your nodes working. Most people would go for an IBM QS2x rackmount.
  
  There were quite a few people who built large computing clusters using the PS3. They chose the PS3 because it was cheap and because Sony was projecting a 10 year lifecycle (ie replacements would be available for a long time). At the time, nobody could have predicted that Sony would start dropping features from the PS3, including OtherOS support.
  Which seems to be why the post you originally replied to explicitly mentioned modding an overpriced pc clone .
  
  I'm not saying one is better, just that there are - as you asked - alternatives. And i doubt you'll see anyone scrambling to build PS3 clusters nowadays.
13. Re:They're watching you by vux984 · 2011-03-18 02:58 · Score: 1
  
  I actually am a programmer, and I appreciate your musical instrument analogy.
  That's entirely fair.
Am I going to get sued by Tigger's+Pet · 2011-03-17 04:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

Is Sony going to come after me for reading TFA? Do we now need to start incorporating "Caution: Reading the following article may result in you being sued to the ends of the earth" logos over the top of stories?
1. Re:Am I going to get sued by Shikaku · 2011-03-17 04:44 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Please assume the party escort position.
2. Re:Am I going to get sued by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 06:05 · Score: 0
  
  As we're on slashdot, nobody is going to worry about what happens if someone reads TFA.
3. Re:Am I going to get sued by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 08:24 · Score: 0
  
  Misquoting Portal? Shame on you...
4. Re:Am I going to get sued by Drgnkght · 2011-03-17 09:41 · Score: 1
  
  Please assume the party escort position.
  This was (almost) a triumph.
5. Re:Am I going to get sued by EkriirkE · 2011-03-17 09:43 · Score: 1
  
  Articles?
  
  --
  from 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 to 45 2F 6E 40 3C DF 10 71 4E 41 DF AA 25 7D 31 3F
Ah, this again. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 04:45 · Score: 5, Interesting

Someone spotted the fact that his debug loader properly connected to a PC, apparently something that retail PS3s, no matter how hacked they are, can't do. So for the moment, looking like a fake; basically a debug unit on the latest debug firmware.
1. Re:Ah, this again. by pokyo · 2011-03-17 06:50 · Score: 1
  
  If this is true, then we can assume that he is an authorized developer? I thought only publishers could get a hold of debug units.
2. Re:Ah, this again. by MichaelKristopeit411 · 2011-03-17 06:58 · Score: 1
  
  considering the suggestion that a video would "prove" anything, all claims must be met with dismissal.
3. Re:Ah, this again. by Nyder · 2011-03-17 14:37 · Score: 1
  
  considering the suggestion that a video would "prove" anything, all claims must be met with dismissal.
  It's on the internet, of course it's true!
  
  --
  Be seeing you...
Oh SONY.... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 04:47 · Score: 0

... the floodgates have failed.
1. Re:Oh SONY.... by IronSight · 2011-03-17 04:55 · Score: 0
  
  ... the floodgates have failed.
  Is that a crack on the tsunami? Seriously though, sony, nintendo, nissan, honda, toyota, etc have much more to worry about than a hacker cracking their firmware. As much as I don't like sony right now, I hope the best for everyone in japan right now since they are going through a hard time, and I suggest that anyone who has an extra dime kicking around their changepurse to donate to the red cross right now.
This is why we can't have nice things! by Tr3vin · 2011-03-17 04:51 · Score: 3, Interesting

As a PS3 owner, I am getting a bit tired of all the jail-breaking. I get that people want to mess around with the hardware, but almost none of this work goes towards something new and useful. I've yet to see any work on some killer applications or games the PS3. I went through the same stuff with the Wii. Everybody talking about the great homebrew scene was but there was barely anything more than emulators. Sure, there were a few new games, but they weren't anything that fantastic. Then, Nintendo felt it necessary to update the bootloader for the Wii, bricking people's unhacked consoles. The PS3 isn't looking much different. All of this talk about being free to do what you want with the console, but people end up just getting their games for free. If you are going to hack the console, at least make it look like you are doing it for a worthwhile reason.
1. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 04:57 · Score: 1
  
  As a PS3 owner, I say more power to them. Sony stole from me when they removed the OtherOS feature.
2. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by PitaBred · 2011-03-17 05:00 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  It's a war of attrition now, one that Sony started by taking away the OtherOS option for no real reason. Then the really smart people that wanted to hack the console for fun or use it for Linux work or clusters or whatever fixed that issue, and then all the script-kiddie hangers-on took it and ran with it after it was broken. If Sony hadn't fired the first shot, they wouldn't have these issues.
  I don't feel sorry for Sony one bit. They made their bed, and they can lie in it.
  
  --
  My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
3. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by sexconker · 2011-03-17 05:00 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  As a PS3 owner, I say more power to them. Sony stole from me when they removed the OtherOS feature.
  Basically this.
  I'm normally against piracy, but Sony started this war. I'll fight back by never giving them another dollar. And I won't let that get in the way of my enjoying game that happen to be on their platforms.
4. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by CastrTroy · 2011-03-17 05:01 · Score: 1
  
  The best thing on the homebrew scene for the Wii are the media players. It's nice to be able to play videos from my network share on my TV without having a dedicated computer in my living room. I'll agree with you about everything else though. I guess anybody who's really serious about developing homebrew games will just make a WiiWare game. Same goes for XBox, they have XNA for the indie developers. Maybe that's the reason you don't see any quality homebrew. Because people have a better avenue to market and sell their software, even if they are just small time developers. I know I, and many others would pay for a quality media player app. I don't know why there isn't one for sale on WiiWare.
  
  --
  
  Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
5. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Tr3vin · 2011-03-17 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  They removed that since people were trying to break through the hypervisor. I'm not trying to be overly supportive of Sony, but they have had their reasons.
6. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:06 · Score: 1
  
  "Then, Nintendo felt it necessary to update the bootloader for the Wii, bricking people's unhacked consoles."
  Please place this blame on Nintendo where it belongs. Regardless of why they did it, THEY are the ones that made the mistake and bricked the unmodded consoles. Had they done their job properly, innocent and loyal customers would not have been affected.
  Regardless of if Sony learns their lesson this generation, I'm still praying the hacking community learns theirs. That being: If you jailbreak a console, wait until the fucking thing is retired before publically announcing it. That way you don't have to play nearly as tiring a game of cat and mouse. Jailbreak it asap, fine. Then spend your time doing actual homebrew and apps for it. As soon as it's retired, go ahead and release it ALL at once.
7. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Duradin · 2011-03-17 05:06 · Score: 1
  
  Wasn't it started by using OtherOS to crack the system to which Sony then responded by removing it in an unforced update (if you didn't update you kept your precious OtherOS)?
8. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by abigsmurf · 2011-03-17 05:07 · Score: 0
  
  Sony didn't start it. Geohot started it by using Linux as a method of hacking the PS3 (which is why Sony then removed it).
9. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by click2005 · 2011-03-17 05:10 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I'll fight back by never giving them another dollar.
  
  You're going to stop buying games?
  Sony gets a percentage of game sales. Its why they subsidize the initial cost of the console.
  
  --
  I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
10. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by MikeDirnt69 · 2011-03-17 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  Let's talk about an outdated blog.
  
  --
  Am I eval()? - http://www.monst3r.com.br
11. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by BtEO · 2011-03-17 05:18 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Sony removed OtherOS from the Slim first. Then Geohot started poking around looking for ways to re-enable it.
12. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Duradin · 2011-03-17 05:21 · Score: 0
  
  Of course he'll stop buying games, he's hoisted the Jolly Roger matey. He's got his "justification" now, the modern Letters of Marque.
13. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by h4rr4r · 2011-03-17 05:26 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  1. And you only beat your wife when she really deserves it?
  2. the hypervisor crippled the box.
14. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:28 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  You can't have nice things because you gave Sony money, one of the worst companies on this planet. And then you sit and bitch about the people who are trying to use the hardware the way they choose? Holy fuck man, people like you are the reason we can't have nice things Tr3vin
15. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by abigsmurf · 2011-03-17 05:29 · Score: 1
  
  The Slim never featured linux to begin with. They cut out the hardware to enable dual booting the way it had been done in other models to save costs.
16. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Elros · 2011-03-17 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  That's what I did. Of course I did that after the root kit on the music CD's. Nothing with a Sony label will ever touch anything on my network until they have a few years of behaving themselves.
17. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by TheCRAIGGERS · 2011-03-17 05:33 · Score: 1
  
  I think that was just the justification they gave for it. They removed it because organizations like the US government were buying PS3s by the pallet-load, installing Linux on them, and clustering them together to make a cheap supercomputer.
  You can imagine that didn't sit well at Sony HQ, since they were subsidizing the price with the assumption the customer would buy enough games to make up for the loss.
18. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:36 · Score: 0
  
  ....And were unable to use your PS3 for playing games (online at least), since you couldn't log in to the PSN without the update.
  Not really unforced is it?
  
  Wasn't it started by using OtherOS to crack the system to which Sony then responded by removing it in an unforced update (if you didn't update you kept your precious OtherOS)?
19. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by TheCRAIGGERS · 2011-03-17 05:39 · Score: 1
  
  Regardless of if Sony learns their lesson this generation, I'm still praying the hacking community learns theirs. That being: If you jailbreak a console, wait until the fucking thing is retired before publically announcing it. That way you don't have to play nearly as tiring a game of cat and mouse. Jailbreak it asap, fine. Then spend your time doing actual homebrew and apps for it. As soon as it's retired, go ahead and release it ALL at once.
  Most people want their code to be used by others, and its tough if nobody else has the means to run your code. Or know it exists at all.
20. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by 10101001+10101001 · 2011-03-17 05:41 · Score: 1
  
  As a PS3 owner, I am getting a bit tired of all the jail-breaking. I get that people want to mess around with the hardware, but almost none of this work goes towards something new and useful. I've yet to see any work on some killer applications or games the PS3. I went through the same stuff with the Wii. Everybody talking about the great homebrew scene was but there was barely anything more than emulators. Sure, there were a few new games, but they weren't anything that fantastic.
  Well, that's mostly true. Very few people make nice, big games for free. That's true on the PC as much as it is on any console. And once money is involved, then you're left to either follow Sony's/MS's/Nintendo's guidelines on publishing or risk putting yourself in a position where you'll quite possibly be sued for encourage/endorsing jail-breaking which even if legal, it isn't clearly legal (thanks in part to the DMCA) so doesn't absolve one of having to pay all the court fees to prove such; after all, Sony/MS/Nintendo make a good deal of money that way not only in selling development kits but also in the publication.
  
  Then, Nintendo felt it necessary to update the bootloader for the Wii, bricking people's unhacked consoles. The PS3 isn't looking much different.
  I'm not really sure how that relates to people jail-breaking their console. If Nintendo, Sony, or MS were to brick an unhacked consoles, then that seems more a PR nightmare for the company; blaming others for it seems rather absurd.
  
  All of this talk about being free to do what you want with the console, but people end up just getting their games for free.
  No doubt that is true. Very few people are interesting in actually hacking anything--very few people are hackers or programmers. So, yes, the ratio of pirates is almost certainly much higher than the hacker/enthusiasts. But, that line of argument amounts to saying it's acceptable and reasonable to lock-up PCs as much as consoles. That seems rather absurd as well. Of course, since Sony/MS/Nintendo made their own system and people have generally adopted them as closed, it's not like one should expect them to be open by choice. That still would seem to reasonable leave room, though, for people to open them on their own just as hardware/drivers on the PC have been reverse engineered sufficiently to function.
  
  If you are going to hack the console, at least make it look like you are doing it for a worthwhile reason.
  In all honesty, what "worthwhile"-ness is there in any console? It's a game system. Even making games for it wouldn't be very worthwhile. Talk of chaining PS3s together to form a supercomputer is only mildly worthwhile as I don't believe that application is cost-effective anymore. If anything, hacking a PS3 or a Wii or an X-Box 360 would seem to be done for the novelty of it, to see if it's possible, and generally to better understand something that someone else is trying to hide in the open. Once that's done, though, a console is just another computer and there's plenty of computer options already so there's not a lot of reason to target a console for anything.
  In short, I don't really disagree with what you're saying about it looking very much like a mad-grab by many for piracy which I'm sure it is. But, I don't think your standards for trying to prove otherwise really match up to the reality of any computer system that's available, especially considering that the "worthwhile" stuff usually involves money and few people or companies want to go to court to avoid the accepted practice of releasing on a platform since such is only likely to cut into profits in the short term with little advantage in the long-term. The finally group that is left are more ideological and care more about "access" and "openness" but in a way that's probably not very worthwhile to most people.
  
  --
  Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
21. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by jones_supa · 2011-03-17 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  I get that people want to mess around with the hardware, but almost none of this work goes towards something new and useful. I've yet to see any work on some killer applications or games the PS3.
  
  I'm afraid that the PS3 is already too complex platform for homebrew individuals/groups to make anything useful for. Even if you had all the specs you'd probably need commercial-level development power to finish stuff.
22. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:44 · Score: 0
  
  If you didn't update, you also couldn't use PSN.
  So, you lose functionality either way: Either PSN (which was an advertised benefit of the system) or OtherOS (which was the advertised benefit of the system).
23. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:55 · Score: 0
  
  Sony started it. There was nothing stopping the Slim from running Linux.
24. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:57 · Score: 0
  
  As an American, I demand you take yourself off the internet immediately, cancel and disable every potential way to access it, and stay the hell off you terrorist Luddite. While you're at it, get rid of your touch-tone telephones, your cable services, and every digital data-capable device.
  What you are railing against and bitching about is exactly the same forces that gave you the capability to be here, now, to bitch about the fact that you can't play without cheaters, or that it gives Sony some reason to enact further more restrictive deals in the future against your property, or whatever you want to bitch about that suggests that it infringes on your individual rights to whatever you want.
  It's the things we are doing now, jailbreaking our devices to get the features we bought them for or to extend their capabilities with our rightly bought and paid for hardware, that we did decades ago to fight for the right to have our Internet the way we have it now.
  At one time, we couldn't have phones that we didn't specifically buy from AT&T. We couldn't use electric devices that we didn't specifically get from our electric utility owners. Our parents and grandparents fought to have the rights we have now. It is our turn to continue that we ensure our freedoms.
  If this is what you want to go back to, go for it. Leave the rest of us alone.
25. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by PRMan · 2011-03-17 05:57 · Score: 1
  
  So then it's pretty amazing that Geohot got it working, isn't it? Either that, or Sony was lying and only removed it in software...
  
  --
  Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
26. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:58 · Score: 0
  
  Wasn't it started by using OtherOS to crack the system to which Sony then responded by removing it in an unforced update (if you didn't update you kept your precious OtherOS)?
  If you don't update, you don't get to do the other things listed on the box that you paid for, such as playing newer games, connecting to PSN, etc. It only does everything, right?
27. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Dorkmaster+Flek · 2011-03-17 06:00 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  The Slim never featured linux to begin with. They cut out the hardware to enable dual booting the way it had been done in other models to save costs.
  Except there was never any hardware required specifically to do that. Geohot got OtherOS working on the slim, thus proving that there was no technical limitation to running it there.
  
  --
  I like to think of online DRM as something akin to a college -- you pay for lessons until you learn something.
28. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Buelldozer · 2011-03-17 06:04 · Score: 1
  
  He will either pirate games OR he will, gasp, BUY THEM USED!
  That's right, when you buy the games used Sony makes no money on them.
29. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by spire3661 · 2011-03-17 06:05 · Score: 2
  
  Linux never required any hardware above the base. The reason Sony gave for not continuing the OtherOS on the slim is that they didnt want to write new drivers every time they changed the hardware.
  
  --
  Good-bye
30. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by dadelbunts · 2011-03-17 06:23 · Score: 1
  
  OR not buy them at all. Either way sony will say they lost sales because of piracy and ramp up DRM. How sad when you cant even boycott something by not buying it.
31. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by PwnzerDragoon · 2011-03-17 06:26 · Score: 1
  
  Well, THAT certainly worked out well, didn't it?
32. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Duradin · 2011-03-17 06:37 · Score: 2
  
  "I'm normally against piracy, but Sony started this war."
  All signs point to "Arrrrr".
33. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 06:45 · Score: 0
  
  Generally speaking home-brew is like fan fiction. It's fun to write, it can teach you a lot about the process of writing, and if shared with people with a similar interest on a limited scale can create a rich if small community of constructive criticism and self improvement. However outside the community of creators no one gives a damn about it, and the egotistical cry babies who take themselves too seriously and think their creation, no matter how derivative and poorly executed it is, is a masterpiece give the rest a bad reputation.
  In short to everyone who isn't a home-brew developer, killing home-brew is a case of "nothing of value was lost".
34. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by harl · 2011-03-17 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  Sony had a very specific reason for removing the OtherOS option.
  They took away OtherOS because they lost the EU import case. Once the EU ruled that PS3s were not computers and subject to higher import tariffs supporting OtherOS became an expense they didn't want to pay.
  
  --
  I find being offended by me offensive.
35. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by harl · 2011-03-17 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  That's not true. The OtherOS feature only existed as a legal move. Game consoles have a higher EU import tariff than computers do. The OtherOS feature was an attempt to have the PS3 classified as a computer. When the legal gambit failed Sony removed the feature to simplify the code base.
  
  --
  I find being offended by me offensive.
36. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Mad+Leper · 2011-03-17 07:21 · Score: 1
  
  We did have nice things, until some smug, self righteous pirates and punks with entitlement issues decided to hide under the skirts of the FOSS and civil rights communities and fuck things over for the rest of us.
  For the first 5 years of the PS3, OtherOS forums were filled with posts along the lines of "I'm using OtherOS and installed a program to rip PS3 games/Blurays, but can't get them to run WTF". Some threads were years old from people searching for "Ripped PS3 Linux" and reposting, hoping someone had a way for them to play their "backup" copies. The homebrew community was essentially non-existent, consisting of ports of bluray rippers and emulators to play hacked roms of old cartridge games.
  In fact, the OtherOS feature functioned somewhat as a honeypot for PS3 hackers, thinking they had easy access to the PS3 through OtherOS they spent years flailing away trying to break the OS. And once Geohot managed to demonstrate it was possible to break the OS security through OtherOS, the pirate community smelled blood and redoubled their efforts.
  At which point Sony really had no reason to include OtherOS on the new PS3 models. The hacker community didn't raise a fuss, after all they could still use the phat models with OtherOS to develop a crack that would hopefully work on all PS3 models.
  When Sony decided to remove it from the phat models, shit hit the fan. With the dream of perpetual free games and complete freedom to jack the PSN network in jeopardy, the pirates freaked out and began a smear campaign against Sony and the PS3 community, even going so far as to deliberately sabotage online play and destroy user accounts.
  To hell with Geohot, and a great big single finger salute to all his minions.
37. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Travelsonic · 2011-03-17 07:35 · Score: 2
  
  That's "GeoHot," you insensitive clod!
  
  We did have nice things, until some smug, self righteous pirates and punks with entitlement issues decided to hide under the skirts of the FOSS and civil rights communities and fuck things over for the rest of us.
  yeah sure, got any proof besides your mere speculation? Last I checked, GeoHot didn't pirate, didn't use it for piracy, and did something that didn't immediately enable piracy.
  
  With the dream of perpetual free games and complete freedom to jack the PSN network in jeopardy...
  Yes piracy may have been made easier, but only so much - the games are ginormous, and not everybody who enjoys hacking pirates.
  
  , the pirates freaked out and began a smear campaign against Sony and the PS3 community....
  [citation needed]
  
  , even going so far as to deliberately sabotage online play and destroy user accounts.
  [citation needed[
  
  tl;dr: Please educate yourself. You made my brain throw up.
  
  --
  If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
38. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 07:48 · Score: 0
  
  Lets neglect the fact that the other OS had limited functionality and no access to the GPU. That couldnt possibly have anything to do with the ability to create decent homebrew.
  Lets also ignore that fact that other OS was removed from the slim before all this started and that it miraculously happened immediately following the loss of the terif tax case.
  Seriously man, lets see it for what it is. Sony only had this feature to try and save money by declaring the PS3 a PC. That failed and they immediately took any reason they could find to remove it since its maintenance costs money and the savings were no longer existent.
  You can blame whoever you want for this issue but I blame Sony. You cant sell a product with feature A and remove it later simply because it no longer benefits the company as much as was expected. Which is exactly what they did with otherOS. The slim removal was legal and just but the retroactive removal was nothing but a slap in the face to there customers.
39. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by CelticWhisper · 2011-03-17 07:49 · Score: 1
  
  However, ramping up DRM will cost them real money to pay programmers and EEs to implement the hardware to do it. If they keep escalating their DRM efforts and people keep boycotting them, they're flushing money away on DRM with no new income to replenish it. Sony's coffers are big but not infinite.
  
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  Help protect civil rights from abuse by the TSA - visit TSA News Blog.
  http://www.tsanewsblog.com
40. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 07:54 · Score: 0
  
  That's right, when you buy the games used Sony makes no money on them.
  When you buy games, whether new or used, you are helping to grow the market for those games.
41. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by dgatwood · 2011-03-17 08:08 · Score: 1
  
  Which is odd given that most hardware vendors don't write Linux drivers for their own hardware. Last I checked, the vast majority of Linux drivers were written by third parties. There's really nothing wrong with providing an Other OS feature under the expectation that somebody else will eventually provide the OS....
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
42. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by shentino · 2011-03-17 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  And how was it wrong for Geohot to hack his OWN DAMN MACHINE?
  Here, have some lube. And some insulin to counteract all that koolaid you're drinking.
43. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by shentino · 2011-03-17 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  That's why it's only an excuse.
  OtherOS, homebrew, and anything else that doesn't bring Sony royalties is bad according to their bean counters.
  For full details look at the amended complaints in Sony's class action.
44. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by shentino · 2011-03-17 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  Translation: Wait till the pillaging vikings have left, then start replanting, instead of fighting back.
45. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Drgnkght · 2011-03-17 09:46 · Score: 1
  
  I believe that the drivers in question were for the hypervisor.
46. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 12:40 · Score: 0
  
  That's what I did. Of course I did that after the root kit on the music CD's. Nothing with a Sony label will ever touch anything on my network until they have a few years of behaving themselves.
  And did you tell them about it? What did they say?
47. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by matt_gaia · 2011-03-17 12:56 · Score: 1
  
  ^this...
  ...is why we need a "STFU" mod option on /. Geohot broke through the hypervisor for giggles, and Sony realizedhe was able to get raw access to the system memory and it that it could be used to get at game data, hence the OtherOs removal. Douchey, yes, but still legal.
48. Re:This is why we can't have nice things! by h4rr4r · 2011-03-18 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  Barely legal, if GM decided that to continue to use your car you would need to go to new rims that prevent you from driving over 40 mph would that be legal?
  Sony stole value from its customers.
Is DRM conceptually useless? by MaikB · 2011-03-17 05:02 · Score: 1

Disclaimer: I'm not a security expert by any means.
Every time I watch a recorded talk on security I spot the same aim they set them self: Allow two parties to communicate securely, where secure means that a 3rd party can't tap or alter data. This fundamental idea to make this work is that there is a secret that the 3rd party doesn't know. These talks also always assume that the attacker doesn't have physical access to one of the parties.
And that seems to be the fundamental flaw with DRM in physical devices: One does have physical access to them.
1. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by vux984 · 2011-03-17 05:08 · Score: 2
  
  And that seems to be the fundamental flaw with DRM in physical devices: One does have physical access to them.
  That is the fatal theoretical logical flaw with DRM.
  But in practice:
  a) They figure maybe they can hide the secret well enough that you won't be able to find it.
  b) They figure that if they can keep you looking for it long enough, it will be a success even if you do eventually find it. If the gamecube were just cracked yesterday, its DRM would have been an unqualified success.
  c) They figure they can pass enough laws making looking for the secret, talking about the secret, and using the secret if you find it illegal that few will be motivated to find it, and fewer still will risk spreading or using it.
  They've been right enough I guess.
2. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by killmenow · 2011-03-17 05:10 · Score: 1
  
  Useless? Obviously not. Major content producing companies and their lobbying groups have found uses for DRM.
  
  Useless as a means to prevent copying? Yes. If it can be read, it can be copied.
3. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by MozeeToby · 2011-03-17 05:13 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  The PS3's DRM was unbroken for half a decade. Now, part of the reason it was so successful was because enthusiasts had access to many features they wanted via the OtherOS functionality, but the fact remains that there was virtually zero piracy of PS3 games for the first 5 years of it's life cycle. Even today with much of the DRM defeated, Piracy rates are still next to zero. Now compare that to the average nerdy college dorm room with a hacked XBox playing downloaded copies of everything from the latest AAA titles to old Atari games (though I suppose you could always play old games via emulators in Linux on the PS3).
4. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:21 · Score: 0
  
  Although in the case of the PS3, it took a damn long time. If you're willing to burn enough money, it is possible to keep people busy for quite a while. In the case of the PS3, which is near the end of its lifespan (the PS4 comes out end 2012, or early 2013 at the latest), I think the virtual locks have been worth every yen. Sadly.
5. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by MaikB · 2011-03-17 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  Considering what was said at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4loZGYqaZ7I the only reason why the PS3 hasn't been breached earlier is just because nobody tried. The only difference to other consoles, that according to the keynote have superior security, is OtherOS. Hence OtherOS is the reason for the fact that there was no piracy on the PS3.
  AFAIK it wasn't even meant to hold hackers from poking the PS3, but to get an tax relief in some area of the world. So the lack of piracy was just a side effect of OtherOS. A side effect that earned them billions, I guess.
6. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by MaikB · 2011-03-17 05:29 · Score: 1
  
  It took a damn long time not because their DRM was so good, but because hackers had no reason to break though it, aka OtherOS.
7. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:38 · Score: 0
  
  A side effect that earned them billions, I guess.
  What, are you saying that if people can't pirate games they buy them? This runs entirely counter to the self-justification used by pirates. Now I'm just confused.
8. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by Fulg · 2011-03-17 05:41 · Score: 1
  
  [...]
  But in practice:
  a) They figure maybe they can hide the secret well enough that you won't be able to find it.
  b) They figure that if they can keep you looking for it long enough, it will be a success even if you do eventually find it. If the gamecube were just cracked yesterday, its DRM would have been an unqualified success.
  [...]
  I'd say it worked well enough for Sony (not that I agree with them on this). It took 5 years for the PS3 security system to be broken... Compare to the Wii (instant) or the Xbox 360 (within the first year).
  
  --
  gcc: no input sig
9. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by mistiry · 2011-03-17 05:58 · Score: 1
  
  If I had mod points I'd mod you up, this OBVIOUS point is missed all the time.
  
  "It took 5 years for someone to break the PS3".
  
  How many of those years was the OtherOS option available, 3 1/2? 4? Once Sony removed OtherOS, it wasn't long until it was broken.
10. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by PRMan · 2011-03-17 05:58 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Nobody was motivated, because of Other OS.
  
  --
  Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
11. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by spire3661 · 2011-03-17 06:09 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Took significantly less then 5 years to crack the PS3. The people who ended up finding the right stuff werent even looking until motivated by Sony.
  
  --
  Good-bye
12. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 06:12 · Score: 0
  
  OtherOS was Sony's greatest deterrent to hacking it. Until they decided to start shipping PS3's without it, nobody really bothered trying to crack it. After they removed it from everyone, their security fell rather quickly.
13. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 06:26 · Score: 0
  
  "Every time I watch a recorded talk on security I spot the same aim they set them self: Allow two parties to communicate securely, where secure means that a 3rd party can't tap or alter data. This fundamental idea to make this work is that there is a secret that the 3rd party doesn't know. These talks also always assume that the attacker doesn't have physical access to one of the parties."
  Bravo. But it's more useless than that.
  DRM is about allowing A to talk to B securely so that C can't interfere/listen in/whatever. That is correct.
  Furthermore, A talks to B by sharing a super secret code that C has no way of obtaining and thus is left out of the loop. This is also correct.
  Where DRM breaks down is that B is also C. So A is giving the super secret key to B. But C has or can easily obtain access to the super secret key because A is actually giving it to them.
  And this is why it is impossible to build a DRM that is unbreakable. You can try to make it harder than changing "unregistered" to "registered" in a config.txt file, but it will only be a matter of time.
14. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by harl · 2011-03-17 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  If you lock someone in a room but hide the key in the room they will eventually find it and let themselves out.
  
  --
  I find being offended by me offensive.
15. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by feepness · 2011-03-17 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  Took significantly less then 5 years to crack the PS3. The people who ended up finding the right stuff werent even looking until motivated by Sony.
  This doesn't ring true. Every other platform is hacked very quickly whether the company "gives them cause [don't make me hit you!]" or not.
16. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by Fulg · 2011-03-17 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  Took significantly less then 5 years to crack the PS3. The people who ended up finding the right stuff werent even looking until motivated by Sony.
  You're arguing semantics ;)
  Ok, so the crack itself didn't take 5 years to develop (I think it took geohot mere days to find one?). My point was that in the eyes of Sony, the DRM "held" for 5 years, so I'm pretty sure it was worth it. For a long time the PS3 was the only secure console of this generation, thanks to the OtherOS option keeping the homebrew crowd happy. When Sony removed it, the race was on...
  
  --
  gcc: no input sig
17. Re:Is DRM conceptually useless? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 13:09 · Score: 0
  
  Of course you could play emulators when OtherOS was there; it booted Yellow Dog Linux, which is a reasonable platform for MAME. See example video.
Sony hurting non-hacking customers by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:09 · Score: 0

Frankly, I'm getting tired of the semi-weekly upgrades. I don't hack my console.
Sony ... you're inconveniencing ME!! I suggest you re-think your strategy and limit the security upgrades, as you'll never stay ahead in any case.
1. Re:Sony hurting non-hacking customers by Anrego · 2011-03-17 05:43 · Score: 1
  
  Amen.
  I game fairly infrequently, but it seems lately that every time I turn my machine on to play a quick game of something simple (currently plants vs. zombies) I have to wait an hour while it pulls some update (which probably provides no new functionality and is purely to screw with modders) from their disturbingly slow servers.
Better be careful by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:09 · Score: 0

Sorny may sue ya. Oops, they may get a judge to give them my IP Address. I am sorry Sorny!
new security useless due to exposed master key? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:10 · Score: 0

Given that GeoHot published the master key for the world to see, aren't any new security measures essentially useless? Don't all future firmwares and consoles need to honor code signed with that key or risk incompatibility with all old games and content?
1. Re:new security useless due to exposed master key? by Schadrach · 2011-03-17 07:57 · Score: 1
  
  Wouldn't it be as simple as having the new firmware only allow whitelisted apps using the old signing key, and whitelisting all apps that were licensed to use said key? Admittedly, that just moves the problem to "how do I fake being $SOFTWARE well enough to bypass the check", but still...
2. Re:new security useless due to exposed master key? by Em+Adespoton · 2011-03-17 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  Given that GeoHot published the master key for the world to see, aren't any new security measures essentially useless? Don't all future firmwares and consoles need to honor code signed with that key or risk incompatibility with all old games and content?
  No, any new security measures tied to the master key are essentially useless; intead they're playing the DirecTV game and analysing the rest of the system. Essentially, they're blocking any consoles that have a means of messing with the master key verification due to ffirmware or hardware mods from operating on the network.
  After all, it doesn't really matter that we all know the master key; what matters is whether we can actually use that key in any meaningful way.
Just Give Me OtherOS by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:10 · Score: 0

I have to believe that if we could install Linux via the OtherOS feature, and use the PS3 for what it is (a somewhat powerful CBE computer), then a lot fewer people would be jail breaking anyway. And why should Sony care anyway? It's not like people who want to use the CBE capabilities of the PS3 are doing so at the expense of purchasing games from Sony.
I would be more than happy to purchase an *additional* PS3 if it meant I could use it as a CBE computer, and use my normal PS3 for gaming / Blue-Ray / Streaming Netflix.
you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a ps3 by Dan667 · 2011-03-17 05:12 · Score: 2

vote with your wallet.
Screw Sony! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:14 · Score: 0

What maroons! First they sue GeoHot. Now they will probably go after this guy! By the time it is all over, Sony will have driven itself into the underground!
jailbroken or new firmware based on 3.60? by FunkyELF · 2011-03-17 05:15 · Score: 1

Does this mean you can jailbreak a PS3 that is on stock 3.60 or is this just a custom firmware based on 3.60 that you can install from one of the earlier jailbreakable versions?
Re:you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:22 · Score: 0

Exactly. That is why I stole my PS3 from Gamestop. Of course now Gamestop is suing and trying to have me prosecuted, but that is beside the point. I sure stuck it to Sony!
Debunked by FLEABttn · 2011-03-17 05:26 · Score: 5, Interesting

He's running a dev unit. 3.60 has not been jailbroken. This was non-news when this video surfaced two days ago because it was debunked mere hours later. Glad to see Slashdot posting articles in a timely fashion.
1. Re:Debunked by Funk_dat69 · 2011-03-17 07:35 · Score: 1
  
  That may be true, but that's what they said when those initial USB jailbreaks came out. That method juked the PS3 into going into debug mode. Maybe this joker found another way to do that?
  
  --
  FUNK!
Tired of updates by j33px0r · 2011-03-17 05:39 · Score: 1

I'm tired of the constant updates from Sony that have no benefit or effect upon me using my PS3. I'm ok with them trying to stop someone from jail-breaking the system but the lousy download speeds from their server really make it kind of inconvenient. A 176MB download at 50-100/kbs? Come on, seriously?

I brought home a game yesterday only to find that they wanted me to sit around and update the firmware AND the game. I updated neither and guess what? The beasties suffered from my holy wrath all the same! Of course, I cannot gloat by sharing my trophies with the world but, then again, I kind of like being an unsung hero.
1. Re:Tired of updates by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 08:41 · Score: 0
  
  I'm tired of the constant updates from Sony that have no benefit or effect upon me using my PS3..
  My PS3 no longer is allowed to have a CAT* cable plugged into it. Totally not worth the bandwidth. I'll play whatever I already have, on it as it is, but it stays as-is until it no longer functions, and then I'll move on to some non-SONY version of entertainment.
2. Re:Tired of updates by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 09:21 · Score: 0
  
  Game discs also contain the firmware they require, so you'd have to disallow any games to be inserted into your PS3 that have unfriendly firmwares. There's no option to disallow firmware updates (say, by requiring a password) on the PS3 that I can find, and trying to keep family members instructed about not running new games has been very cumbersome.
  This is important because I've actually used PS3 in the past to do numerical work, and so updating it would essentially "brick" my ability to continue that work. Very frustrating.
MatthieuLH by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 05:43 · Score: 0

isn't it the same video as MatthieuLH claim he did 2-3 days ago?
Re:you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 06:03 · Score: 0

but they will still try to find out who you are if you comment on any hacks, regardles if you're in a position to act on it or not :>
Okay, I will be around your house tomorrow by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 06:22 · Score: 0

I will be making sure you do NOT connect more then one PC to your internet connection as stipulated by some ISP's and we can't take a risk now can we.
I also will be welding the hood of your car down, just so you don't get tempted to mess with the engine and vioate its environmental rating.
There will be an alcohol lock installed and also the car won't drive unless everyone is belted in and has verified with the police they are eligible to drive.
You will enter every airport and security check naked.
You will not buy any gardening material because we all know what that stuff is used for.
You will do without glue for the rest of your life, less you sniff it.
You will surrender every last bit of freedom because someone somewhere might be inconvenienced by it. But mostly you will bend over so big business can have easy access to your ass for the use off.
Alternatively realize freedom has a price. Either you pay it, or your loose it.
Re:you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 06:25 · Score: 0

Yes, but if you distribute the signing keys, they send the federal government after you for providing tools to break digital encryption.
If you're lucky enough to live in the U.S. anyway.
Re:you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a by westlake · 2011-03-17 07:45 · Score: 1

vote with your wallet.
By the numbers:
49 million consoles sold. 69 million PSN accounts. 17 million PlayStation Home social networking accounts. 4 million MOVE controllers.
The PS3 Fat has been out of production for almost three years.
Each new video game sold , Blu-Ray video, MOVE contoller or online service like Netflix is a vote for the firmware upgrade.
Of course the geek can still vote with his wallet.
But so can everyone browsing the latest in HDTV, home video and console gaming at Walmart.
Re:you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 09:25 · Score: 0

And those of us who owned them from early on, when sony was not only supporting but releasing information on using linux on the ps3, when it was a great way to dabble in cell development? (And simultaneously have a great mythtv frontend) No, they won't get a single $ more from me at this point, you're right, I've stated my boycott for a while now, but don't make light of the number of us with 60 gig ps3's from early on.
Cunt slashdotters getting erection... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-03-17 12:12 · Score: 0

over fake anti-sony news...
Damn...
Re:you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a by BitterOak · 2011-03-18 14:58 · Score: 1

you cannot get sued by sony if you don't buy a ps3
You can't? Since when?

--
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?