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US Military Deploys Personal Gunshot Detectors
RedEaredSlider writes "A new warfighting technology will soon be making its way to Afghanistan. US Army forces will be getting gunshot detection systems, which can tell where a shot was fired from. Approximately 13,000 gunshot detection systems will be given to individual footsoldiers later this month, according to the US Army. The system, called Individual Gunshot Detector, has four small acoustic sensors and a small display screen attached to the soldier's body armor that shows the distance and direction of incoming bullets. The sensors are each about the size of a deck of cards and can detect the supersonic sound waves generated by enemy gunfire. It alerts the soldier of the shot's direction in less than one second."
Didn't they have this sort of thing in Deus Ex?
13,000 gunshot detection systems will be given to individual footsoldiers...
Oh give me a break! How is each soldier going to carry 13,000 gunshot detection systems? Isn't one enough?
Would they foil this? They're loud. But don't move at the speed of sound.
"To stop the terrorists."
if it is really detecting supersonic sound waves, it needs to be re-calibrated methinks...
I'm interested in these devices that "can detect the supersonic sound waves generated by enemy gunfire."
Supersonic sound waves? As in, sound that travels faster than sound?
Odd.~
"...The system, called Individual Gunshot Detector...
Really? All kinds of kick-ass program names and acronyms in the Military's arsenal of weapon nomenclature, and the best you could do was..."Individual Gunshot Detector"? Sheesh.
I guess there is one benefit to that generic name...I'll reserve the right to slap the shit out of anyone that asks the question "what does it do?"
If this saves any lives, then I'm all for it. I just hope it's not another makeshift technology that some company designed to make money but doesn't actually do anything useful but make rich people richer at the expense of American soldiers.
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If a sniper has a clear shot and takes a person out, well, that target will be dead before the sound waves reach the device. But at least the rest of the squad would know where the shot came from and respond accordingly.
What about subsonic rounds? subsonic rounds + silencer = near invisible sniper.
was a personal gunshot detector.
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If that's the case, it could be foiled by something like a VSS Vintorez, which fires a 9x39mm subsonic round. The round was originally designed to remain subsonic to assist in suppression, but this could make the caliber more advantageous than it already was.
I wonder if these types of Soviet weapons are available in Iraq in quantity? Surely they are in Afghanistan, though ammunition in the oddball caliber might be hard to come by.
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Sup dawg, I heard you like gunshot detectors, so I put 12,999 gunshot detectors in your gunshot detector so you can detect shots while you detect shots while you detect shots while you detect shots whi [FIELD TRUNCATED]
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Yeah, it's called a Central Nervous System.
"Ow! I've been shot!" :)
With the first link, the chain is forged.
With experience, one can not only learn to distinguish gunfire from vaguely gunfire-like sounds (fireworks, backfiring cars and so forth), but get a pretty good approximation of the type of weapon being fired - sometimes even down to specific models. If a human ear can learn to make such fine distinctions then surely a purpose-built sensor can do at least as well.
I hope these devices work better than the Quadro Tracker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadro_Tracker
That was my first thought also.
New term for a direct headshot from the direction the soldier is facing: "he got up-arrowed."
how is babby formed?
Its called the Soldier Wearable Acoustic Targeting System (SWATS) - and as a former Army Ranger (and a current QinetiQ employee) - I can tell you its a very cool and useful item. Bullets can whiz by you without you knowing where they came from. This little device at least gives you an estimate based on the sonic shockwave and gives you a heads up as to where a shooter might be. Not super high-tech, but super-useful if you're being shot at.
"As for the future, your task is not to foresee it, but to enable it." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Of course, it remains to be seen if this iteration is of any use either, or if minor quibbles like echoes from buildings and gully walls are still rendering them expensive porkbarrel fodder.
You realize profit is only the part you keep after the expense? If I sell you a 13000 gadgets for 100 bucks each that cost 1 million in design and construction, I'm not actually making that much money.
this is not for detecting gun shot wounds. though, it is possible to be shot and not know it.
this is to help detect direction maybe distance. this is a very real issue. i've been in the situation where shots were fired and it was very difficult to figure out where they were coming from.
http://xkcd.com/169/
From an individual device, you can only get a rough direction. But with timestamped events from multiple locations, you can get the actual location of the target. That's much more useful. You can transmit the target coordinates to artillery.
A gun-location app for a smartphone is quite possible. There's a microphone, a GPS, compute power, and comm.
No news here - this technology has been available since the Phonecians invented the bow and arrow. The low-tech solution works like this: 1. Ow. 2. Where am I bleeding? 3. The shooter is most likely in the direction the wound is facing.
This just in: Every troll whining about radar systems in FPS's aren't real and ruin the game play all shut up at one. Everyone was happy and the world prospered.
4way Sonic Kinetic Inference Notifier
That would be a good metaphor if it included something about huge farm conglomerates manipulating food standards and changing the diets of the public in the same way that military service providers manipulate the government into more war, except then it wouldn't fit in with your poorly informed conception of history because it's actually happening.
"The Army plans on integrating the gun detection system with its Land Warrior and Nett Warrior systems. These systems include a GPS digital-mapping-display technology, a radio, a helmet-mounted display and a hand-held data input device, allowing soldiers to have "unparalleled situational awareness."
A question. In an urban environment, where the device is unaware of the surrounding geometry, how is it going to compensate for all the sound reflections ?
Ex warsaw pact ammunition is available in HUGE numbers if you know where to look.
and the best you could do was..."Individual Gunshot Detector"
And what's even weirder is that the acronym that TFA attaches to that is IDG.
LOL, IDK, shouldn't it be IGD?
Assuming its not a typo there actually is logic for IDG. Military nomenclature likes a noun,adjective type of format. Consider:
Individual Detector, Gunshot
Individual Detector, Explosion
Individual Detector, Radiation
Individual Detector, Chemical
Seeing something labeled IDx would then suggest its basic function of individual detector.
Of course - even in the US. 9x39mm is not a common round, though. We're not talking 7.62x39mm or 7.62x54R. I seriously doubt you'll be able to find quantities of 9x39mm in the Mideast available to the average Jihadi Joe.
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I think you will find prior art in the original Journey of the Center of the Earth movie with the echo direction locator they carried.
Now we know that this device will fall into enemy hands. What is the risk if our enemy has this same device? Maybe they should also develop a ventriquist barrel attachment to make the sound seem to come from one of the enemy positions. They can probably get a good design from some of the hackers that do IP masquerading
If you turn up the sensitivity, could you use it to place the blame on who farted?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
this should work great with friendly fire
...there aren't a lot of combat vets on this board. There's quite a few smart alecs, though.
We hope the enemy miss the first shot.
We already do that. Now we just might be able to make sure they don't get a second shot.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
I hope these things network together. Because (unfortunately) the person who's sensor initially detects the shot may no longer be around to do anything about it. Other members of the patrol need to know the source.
Have gnu, will travel.
I was in the Kunar Province 2008-2009 (Korengal) and we had these things attached to our MRAPS, they do not work, they don't take into effect the echo from the mountains, they would commonly tell us the bullets are coming from every direction.
There are, of course, many other problems with using subsonic rounds.
Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
Does not work at all in Afghanistan.
Bullseye.
TFA reads like an edited version of a sales brochure.
"About the size of a deck of cards"
Except for that ridiculous cord and the massive battery pack stupidly strapped to the poor fuck's shoulder...
"It's very light, only 2 pounds"
2 pounds othat will help me in those situations where I can't hear or see where the fire is coming from, and will otherwise just add dead weight to the other 50 lbs of shit I have to lug into the field every day.
And I bet you could do this with an Android phone for about 1/10th the weight and 1/10th the price per unit.
Hudson: Movement. Signal's clean. Range, 20 meters.
Ripley: They've found a way in, something we've missed.
Hicks: We didn't miss anything.
Hudson: 17 meters.
Ripley: [Checking the tracker] Something in the floor, underneath the plant, I don't know
Hudson: 15 Meters.
Newt: Ripley.
Hicks: Definitely inside the barricades.
Newt: Let's go.
Hudson: 12 meters.
Ripley: That's right outside the door. Hicks, Vasquez get back.
Hudson: Man, this is a big fuckin' signal.
Hicks: How are we doing Vasquez, talk to me?
Vasquez: Almost there.
[They welded the door shut, and stepped back away from the door]
Vasquez: They're right on us.
Hicks: [Waiting for the Aliens] Remember, short controlled bursts.
Hudson: 9 meters, 7, 6.
Ripley: That can't be, that's inside the room.
Hudson: It's reading right man, look.
Hicks: Then, "you're" not reading it right.
Hudson: 5 meters, man. 4, what the hell?
This would be useful for law enforcement as well....
Imagine cities where near every corner there's at least one hidden gun shot detector, and several backups on every street; with PoE network connection and battery+Wireless mesh+GSM backup. Perhaps you could have some in your home if you wanted, tied to alarm system panic. Or someone could come up with a county-provided WiFi network with a "WiFi911/Ethernet911 option" for using IP technology for the gunshot detector to call for help.
If someone shoots off a gun, police may be auto-dispatched to the exact coordinates.
Then if they got a silencer-defeat technology; this could be used to ID dangerous illegal discharge of firearms in ways gun control laws alone cannot.
They had that in Ghost Recon.
http://gamestyle.com/media/images/games/screenshots/large/xbox-ghostrecon-100710-05.jpg
Seemed goofy at the time, but a good solution for a video game. Now it's real? Awesome :)
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
So, you're inviting us all to take potshots at you with .22 subsonics then, since it's so harmless?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
That's more or less right. If the bullets are flying in large quantities it's generally not hard to figure out where they're coming from, but if you've got one or two snipers taking potshots at your platoon, it can be quite difficult to find them. In those cases, the traditional method for locating the shooter involves the section/squad commander yelling "charlie team, take a bound!". This seems much safer.
Is that officers have an even safer and smarter way of determining the direction of incoming enemy fire: "Sergeant Duffy, go find me that sniper."
Doesn't sound right.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
What does availability in the US have to do with soviet ammunition. 12.7x108 is fairly uncommon in the US but can be found in high numbers easily. Tons of ex-soviet nations are full of surplus ammo.
supersonic sound waves
Now there's an oxymoron!
This sounds like it could save civilian lives in urban settings. Precision and knowing where to direct fire means fewer stray bullets or unintended people caught in areas of effect. I don't know anything about combat though so if this is way off I welcome correction.
When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
Actually, I could see the first day, as the enemy clobbers an innocent soldier and steals his device. The only protection would be a specialized battery that has to be charged from home base. That way, if device is stolen, it's life span would be very limited, as the battery runs down.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
I'm just saying - as an American, I can order just about any caliber imaginable - and 9x39mm is rare as hen's teeth.
For what it's worth, 12.7x108mm is the Combloc equivalent of 50BMG. Of course it would be common. 9x39mm is roughly equivalent to something like 6.8SPC today - it is designed and used solely by Spetsnaz, to my knowledge, and was never issue to the military at large. The only weapons off the top of my head that fire it are the VSS Vintorez, an experimental AK derivative, and an underwater rifle used by Russian frogmen that fires a special, sealed-piston design.
It's not uncommon because it's Russian, it's uncommon because it was never a frontline caliber.
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.45 ACP is subsonic, and several rifles can be loaded with powerful subsonic loads, such as .500 Whisper.
Or just use artillery or set off fucking bombs. Doesn't do them any good to detect a concussion wave at 3 atm overpressure.
No. The other 12,999 are to assure defense contractor profits. But remember, it was a volume sale so we really got a discount.
Most 9mm pistol ammunition I've encountered is supersonic (~1200-1400 feet per second). Subsonic ammunition is generally well under 1050 fps, to account for variation in the speed of sound due to temperature; due to lower chamber pressures I've heard people saying that subsonic ammunition won't even reliably cycle their guns.
In fact, it's pretty hard to find a modern cartridge that will be subsonic, even from short revolver barrels. You can buy .22 rounds that are especially made to be subsonic. Some people call them "caps". There is another name for them, I forget what it is.
But as the other poster said: a normal 9mm round is very much supersonic. So is just about everything else.
This Thursday, a building at my local university was evacuated because somebody had heard a gun-loading sound, but nothing happened and no gun was found. Not that you could get an authentic loading sound as a ringtone, or a remotely similar sound from anything else like printers and copy machines. Perhaps a detector could have prevented this overkill operation that involved canceling a lot of lectures and a lot of police work.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
I live on the end of a narrow valley about 10km long. On the other end is a rifle range which is really popular on the weekends.
Now I know where it is, but visitors to my house do not and when they hear the sound of faint shots, they are utterly confused as to where they are coming from. If you trust your senses, you think the sounds are at right angles away from the true source, over the ridges that form the valley. The valley itself channels the sound downwind towards my home and there is no way you can pin-point the source of the shots.
In fact I doubt if any acoustic technology can detect it as I think a detection system would need to be in line of sight and not obscured by geological formations.
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
"Supersonic sound waves"?
Right. Welcome to the idiocracy.