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Ask Slashdot: How Prepared Are You For a Major Emergency?
The northern US has been buried under snow several times this winter, and flooding has struck quite a few places in the southwest. Those pale, though, beside the recent disasters in Haiti, New Zealand, and Japan, and the seemingly inevitable arrival of a serious earthquake on the West Coast of the US. All of which has me thinking about my (meager) preparedness for a major disaster. Despite plans to stock up in case of a major storm or other emergency, right now I'd be down mostly to canned beans, sardines and Nutella. How prepared are you to do deal with a disaster affecting your region? Is your data safe? What about your family? Do you have escape, regrouping, or survival plans in the event of an earthquake, tsunami, hurricane, industrial accident, or whatever hazards are most relevant where you live? It would be helpful if in comments you disclose your region and environment (urban? rural? exurbs?) and the emergencies you consider worth preparing for, as well as talking about any steps you've taken or plan to take.
talking about data how safe are the data centers / cables that link them? How long does the on site fuel last? (with out refill?) even if they have refill plans that fuel may get pulled and sent to other places that need it and the data center may have no say in that.
Mod me troll. I don't care.
I've got a M1 rifle, a 12 gauge pump and a Colt Python as personal weapons.
That and a backpack full of gear I can live out of and a 4x4 that's already been up the Rubicon trail many times.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
There are about a dozen cans of squid, that I have no idea where they came from.
OK, so I'm living on the outskirts of an Eastern European city but I've still made some preparations:
Backups of all data held off-site
Fully charged laptop battery always available (I rotate them)
Passport and all essential documents all kept in one safe place
Working torch where I can find it
Box of tinned food and 25 Liters of water in the basement along with a torch and tent
Cellphone always kept charged and a spare SIM in case our local carrier goes titsup
Five minutes warning of the big one and I can be out of here.
Ganty
Got some food that will last a while. My house has a creek that runs behind it and plenty of wood, so we can start a fire and boil water. When the food we have runs out, I have a hunting rifle with almost a full box of ammo, a shotgun with plenty of bird shot, and a handgun(more of use against unwelcome bipedal creatures than for hunting), so I can kill plenty of critters for food. And this is suburban Atlanta. Really, in an emergency situation, I could care less about data and all that. My biggest concern is feeding and protecting my family. It's pointless to make sure your pictures and tax records survive an emergency if you don't.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Jump kits (Go bags)
You put 'em by the door for when you have to rock'n'roll.
http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/emerg_kit.htm
The best preparations are knowledge and experience.
Learn to camp. Join the Boy Scouts or similar when growing up. Learn to fish. Learn to hunt. Go on hikes. Take a first aid course.
Learn to be calm in the face of a completely unfamiliar situation.
You can't really plan for an unexpected event, but you can train yourself to react rationally in unfamiliar circumstances. Having a tendency to improvise a solution will get you much further in an emergency than any preparation for a specific circumstance.
Bug out bags are nice but having a place to wait out a dangerous situation is ideal. BOBs aren't a panacea to surviving a disaster.
Backpack Fever addresses this concern and encourages people to be realistic before grabbing their SKS and going innawoods.
Some initial disclosure: My hobbies are hunting and mountaineering. Both of my parents are also retired Army.
I have a pretty well prepared plan actually.
We have two weeks of food and water which I check regularly, and being a hunter I have about 500 rounds of dry sealed hunting grade ammunition stored (locked) in the survival bag. I've also had several forms of bush survival classes and I'm extremely familiar with what is safe to eat and natural remedies for various issues. I also have several forms of long lasting antibiotics in the kit. Since I mountaineer you can bet your ass I have foul weather survival gear, also stored and ready to go.
We have three kinds of plans which is something I recommend everyone have:
1) Natural disaster which does not require evacuation. This is the hurricane avoidance type of thing (I live in the Northeast. IF a hurricane reaches us, its probably a A Big Deal). Hunker down, away from the windows, food, candles, extremely reduced dependence on social services such as running water and electricity.
The last two both involve the following: Gear off rack, duffles loaded, ready to move within 5 minutes of the decision to evacuate. Once this decision is made, there is NO argument. My wife is very aware that I switch gears into a mode which I learned from two very serious parents.
2) Natural disaster which forces an evacuation. The biggest question here is knowing when to get the hell out of dodge immediately, versus knowing when to wait for the unwashed mashes to run in panic because they're retarded. Gear is loaded and routes contrary to those being used by mass evacuees are chosen. In cases where this isn't possible, Every police and military station in the area is marked in a map. Short wave radio is already pre-tuned and tested for known open frequencies.
3) Man made disaster which forces an evacuation. Welp. This is it. If this plan is going into effect, there are a lot of variables. Is the air safe? Are the roads safe? Is fallout a concern? The answers here determine whether or not I'm just saying a quick prayer, covering my skin and praying to god, or I'm running. If I can run, my concern and courtesy for others is very limited. I'm the very serious guy loaded to bear and not taking shit from people around me. If I need to survive, my wife and I -will- survive. I am a firm believer in Darwin's theory of evolution and my genes are the alpha ones bud :P
"It's not stealing if you don't get caught!"
The only thing we probably have to seriously worry about, is the disaster after the disaster.
If there is some cataclysmic quake/tsunami on the West Coast, I can imagine plenty of people showing up here shortly afterwards. We are not prepared to deal with a mass influx of Californians.
I guess my survival pack would include:
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
I work in Manhattan. Realistically, if a major disaster (as opposed to a localized one like 9/11, or a major inconvenience like the various blackouts) hits while I'm there, I'm gonna die. Either immediately from the floodwaters, buildings falling down in the earthquake, overpressure/heat/gamma radiation from the nuclear blast, etc, or from delayed effects like fallout or a later collapse, or from starvation or disease or murder as the largely isolated island (assuming all tunnels impassible and all bridges destroyed) turns to cannibalism.
I keep my rocket launcher in case I get hungry and need to hunt rabbits. You called it! All the small-penises are trotting out their gun collections now!
I am not prepared.
"my cat would make a fine hat for warmth"
your cat can knit?
A post a day keeps productivity at bay.
I live in the U.K. too and can confirm your suspicions - dinner is a disaster.
Fortunately we English have lived with this major emergency for long enough we take it all in our stride now. Ketchup. Lots of ketchup.
My wife and I like to stay fairly well prepared.
First, our home. We live in a very rural area, on the side of a treed mountain. We built our home last year, and it's passive solar, sited to take maximum advantage of the sun, built very tightly (LEED gold-ish, but we didn't bother to get certified). We maintain the forest, have large piles of wood in rotation being seasoned, and keep a large stockpile of planked wood on hand (milled from the trees on our land). Our neighbors have cows, goats, and sheep, from which they produce milk and meat—handy to have When The Shit Comes Down®. (I use that phrase facetiously—it's a generic term that my wife and I use to refer to anything that may or may not happen in our lifetimes that would disrupt supply chains, limit movement, or otherwise require short or long-term independence.) We paid a few thousand bucks to have an enormous propane tank buried next to our house, in which we maintain a two-year supply of propane. Soon enough we'll have a propane generator, a few solar panels, and a small windmill, which should allow us to maintain ~1.5 kWh of power during about half of the day, but make it possible to peak to 5 kWh when demand requires (until the propane runs out, and then we top out at 1.5 kWh).
Second, food and water. We always keep about ten pounds of oats, twenty pounds of flour, ten pounds of sugar, ten pounds of rice, and ten pounds of dried beans on hand. We always have 20 gallons of fresh drinking water stored, 55 gallons of rainwater, and we maintain a spring. Also, we have a stream. We have a small flock of chickens, a horse, and we're about to get ducks. Six months out of the year we have what's either a large garden or a small farm, and we put up a lot of food in the fall. Not enough to get us through a winter, but we do alright, and feel confident that we could ramp up production significantly, if need be. We save our seed, so the notion of increasing the size of our garden by tenfold with four months of lead time (seasonally depending, of course) isn't totally unreasonable.
Third, medical. We've got potassium iodide on hand (there's a nuclear power plant ~35 miles from us), a dose of Tamiflu for each of us, two very complete medical kits, moderate training in first aid (with more coming soon—see below), and we generally maintain a three-month supply of our medications.
Fourth, general supplies. We have an oil lamp (and, of course, lamp oil), a bunch of candles, several fire extinguishers, a NOAA radio, a hand-cranked AM/FM/shortwave radio, matches, lighters, a flotilla of batteries of all sorts, headlamps, and flashlights. We keep a couple of canisters of propane on hand (rotated through annually, thanks to grilling season) and have a propane heater that can heat our entire house for a couple of days with one of those plugged in.
Fifth, evacuation preparedness. We keep a 72-hour pack by the front door, ready to go, with a couple of hundred bucks in cash, a few days food, tinned water, flashlights, blankets, tarps, matches, fire starters, and so on. We've got sleeping bags and internal frame packs on hand for each of us. The idea is to make sure that if sheltering in place isn't safe, that we can leave without delay.
Finally, a flotilla of books (not all of which we've read, I admit) on wilderness medicine. This Tuesday we're starting an eight-week Community Emergency Response Team training course (held just once a week). This is available in most areas—google around to see if you can take it in your area. That's where you can learn to be helpful in an emergency, rather than somebody who needs help—learn to use a chainsaw, direct traffic, suture a wound, lead a panicked group of people to safety, etc. Recommended highly.
I've come to relish when we lose power in good weather. It's a chance to test out our plans. There are a lot of basic aspects to preparedness that would just never cross your mind until you actually need to carry out that plan. You know how, without power, you keep flipping light switches every time you walk into a room, or thinking "well, I'll just google that...*DOH*"? The same applies to all kinds of things, like having candles...but no matches. :)
Stockpile water and gasoline
Petrol goes stale. Don't stockpile it. Ditch the wheezy underpowered unreliable petrol engines, and get a diesel car and a diesel genny.
Even if the diesel is available the traffic snarls up bad. If the data centre is inside a region badly hit the officials will close the area to everyone for their "safety" even if the building is safe. Our IT support continued to work because it was in another city. The building in Chch our office was in had the MSB (a diesel was there too I think) in the basement, which flooded. No doubt that is where the rebuilt MSB (main switchboard) will go. And god, it takes so long for anything to progress.
I live in Ireland. We don't have major national emergencies. Just irritations.
Barring a meteorite, nothing bad will ever happen here. Nothing bad ever happens here. No hurricanes. No earthquakes. No volcanoes. No tornadoes. No wars. No terrorism(not anymore anyway). Small floods that only annoy at worst. Most peaceful and safe country on the planet. So why prepare for an emergency that isn't going to happen?
So there I was, scribbling down some notes off the PC screen by hand, when I reached for the keyboard and Ctrl-S'd.
I've got food, basic medical, firewood, and a back up solar and rechargeable battery system to keep flashlights and a small TV or laptop running. I've got a little ammo for the M-16 too, but that's way down on my list. I'm expecting intermittent power failures and an inability to buy some foodstuffs such as Chilean grapes and California oranges at any reasonable price, if the economy gets bad enough. I fill my diabetes related prescriptions 2 months ahead now, for the same reason. Tons of ammo is for the Zombieclypse, not any real threat. If I thought there was a serious threat of, say, Nuclear Winter, I would have worked in wind power instead of solar. If I wasn't already a credit union member I would have switched to improve my 'run on the banks' defense posture', but my expected worse case doesn't even run to needing silver coin to bribe corrupt government thugs, let alone putting all my money in gold and hiding it under the bed.
Here's some other things I think are reasonable extra costs some people should consider for protection against various disasters and collapses:
Have your money divided between two unrelated institutions - If you are married and simply have to use credit, at least have some separate cards from different major providers. Avoid banks that are part of big chains, if you can. If you have stocks, ask yourself it a lot of them would take a hit if some one event happens in some one distant geographic area. I don't think the minor radiation release in Japan is the harbinger of universal armaggeddon, but it's an example of why you don't want to have all your money in a restaurant chain that is just now boasting of using Kobe beef and a semiconductor firm and be thinking you are safely diversified.
The most critical vitamin is C, especially during the winter, followed by D for women who might become pregnant. If you think the food supply might be short of either Vitamin D fortified milk or citrus fruits and dark green veggies, keep some of these on the shelf. You can go a decade with not getting enough selenium if you actually live in one of the rare low selenium parts of the world, but Scurvy comes on quickly in winter, and women who have sex should assume they need vitamin D just in case the birth control fails, regardless of the disaster related factors
Real survivalists stock MRE's - the rest of us stock canned goods. Chunky soup is nice. Stock things you normally eat, so your diet stays like normal as much as possible in an emergency. Suddenly changing what kind of food you get can make you sick, especially with other stressors.If none of the stuff you normally like keeps, you are not eating right, and have another problem than disaster survival.
Serious shortages of pet food are likely to happen even before light or intermittent shortages of people food - stockpile for your pets.
Find a place that sells locally grown produce. Chat them up and make friends with the owner and regular workers, and go there at least every couple of weeks so you count as a regular. When fuel hits 6$ a gallon, nothing will come in to the major chain grocery stores that ships by containerized vessel or semi truck. You want some supplier who knows you and will maybe actually hold back a few apples just for your kids, when the national chains are carrying only starchy produce like potatoes, and other really basic items. That scenario is a lot more likely than no stores at all and no food except what you can shoot.
Who is John Cabal?
Is your data safe? What about your family?
Actually, my wife and son will probably perish, but at least I'll know that my email and bookmarks will be redundantly backed up by Google.
How many ducks and deer do you think there *are*? If there was an actual disaster, the deer, duck, quail, and lizard populations would plummet as a teaming horde of well-armed people suddenly ravage the landscape.
Cornell University Cooperative Extension: "Today there are over 20 million deer in the United States and numbers are rising. [...] Densitites may exceed 40 deer per square mile in some rural areas, and over 100 deer/square mile have been documented near many eastern metropolitan areas. [...] As long as adequate food resources are available, deer populations can double in size every 2-3 years. Eventually some form of population management is needed to control herd growth and maintain deer numbers within the social carrying capacity."
There are plenty of deer.
Arguably, the hardocre apocalyptic gun-toters know that they don't really need survival kits: All they need is a list of nearby people who have survival kits, and their existing supplies of guns and ammunition...
When the world is melting down around you that should be the least of your concerns. Food, water, shelter, etc is a bit more important.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Is it me or does this entire thread seem to state that Americans are preparing for natural disasters by arming up and getting ready to play real life MW2 with their neighbours?
You know, I call my emergency plan "The Apocalypse Plan" or "The End of the World Plan"
The plan is distributed throughout my group of "survivors". Three meeting points, with the plan for the final destination are included.
Supplies include weapons and plenty of ammunition, food (MREs, water, water treatment, etc), clothing, personal supplies (toothpaste, toilet paper, feminine needs), medical supplies (basic first responder kit), and vehicle supplies (extra gas, spare parts, etc).
And of course, people ask "Why weapons?" Well, since this world is such a kind gentle place, it'd be perfectly safe walking or driving through a group of desperate people with enough supplies to live a few weeks on. Oh ya, you wouldn't be safe. Beyond that, you may (and likely will) need to use them for hunting when the food supplies run out.
If it is a prolonged period of civil unrest, you may find weapons your best friend. Well, I guess the best friend is the person who can use the weapons most efficiently.
The meeting points are staged along a predetermined evacuation route. Multiple routes are provided to each waypoint. Each waypoint was chosen for relative isolation, access to fresh water and wildlife, and access by car, large vehicle (bus/large truck) and aircraft. So you should be able to walk, drive, or fly there (there are a few licensed pilots in the group).
We all know the parties who should be able to arrive, so once the entire party has grouped at one of the waypoints (hopefully the first).
Distance to the waypoints and regrouping times (how long we wait) is based on at least double the walking time. If it takes an hour to drive, or a day to walk, we give 3 days. So waypoint 1 would be 3 days (E+3d). Waypoint 2 would be 2 weeks (E+17d). Waypoint 3 would be another 2 weeks (E+31d).
We plan to add shortwave radio to the plan. Right now, we only have one licensed operator. Not that licenses matter much in a state of emergency. When your region has just been leveled by a natural disaster, having the FAA show up to fine or arrest you would be welcome. "Fine, arrest me. Get me out of here."
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Being that I live in Canada, and we occasionally get weather here that knocks out power to a few hundred thousand people occasionally. For 2-3 months at a time, most of what you have won't let you survive as long as you think. Back during the last major ice storm up northern ontario/quebec way there were parts of both provinces without hydro(which means no water among other stuff), for nearly 4 months. No real way to get around, military drop offs, etc. Which means that we were lucky.
A ceramic style water filter is good. You should also have bleach which will kill anything else that may be missed in the purifier. You should have a multi-fuel mini-stove, something that will work on oil(#1 or 2 inc. diesel), gasoline, white fuel(naptha), kerosene, etc that can be used when you're not making a fire outside for cooking. You should know basic survival stuff. How to lay snares, basic hunting traps, and how to clean your own kills(easier than it sounds), including how to clean fish properly. Making a fire bow, how to use flint and tinder(because even matches run out--and lots of people don't remember to waterproof them). How to bank coals in sand, etc.
Warmth you should have 2 types of sleeping bags, deep winter(rated for -40C), and summer. Shelter is generally easier. But knowing how to make a pine bush hut is good basic knowledge.
Communication? Cell phones generally don't work in a major disaster. Land lines generally do, unless there's a serious problem. Even with the ice storm up here land lines worked. You should have a basic CB which has a good range. Crank power supplies work as well, don't rely on solar, depending where you live not having solid sunlight for over a month can happen.
Weapons and ammunition are good, but knowing basic self defense is a plus.
Om, nomnomnom...
When in danger,
or in doubt,
run in circles,
scream and shout.
-- Xavier Onassis, Director of Emergency Preparedness
Have gnu, will travel.
Emergency kit: Food, water, radio, flashlight, batteries, first aid kit, etc.
Apocalypse kit: A Real Doll and enough booze and drugs to forget the "Doll" part.
I've found the best emergency preparedness is being on good terms with the neighbors. If you know everyone within an hour's walking distance you tend to benefit from a larger skill set than what you have on your own. One guy's a hunter/trapper, I have access to a pile of radio equipment, the nice old lady about a mile down is a hardcore homesteader (I think she only buys milk), so we're all set up to help each other out.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
My strategy is to live in Toronto. We never get any snow (according to my standards) or hurricanes. It's geologically stable, so no quakes. No major dams to burst, or rivers to flood. It's bland and boring. The worst disaster to hit these parts was the blackout of 2003, and even that was more or less over in about 8 hours.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
One of my colleagues who lives up in the Boise Hills has been feeling a strong urge lately to live closer to the land and further off the grid, if only by buying a goat. I suggested that she start selling halal goat meat to the local Muslim population, such as it is. More seriously, I recommended the Foxfire anthologies --and much to my surprise, she'd never heard of them! There are twelve in the series now, so whether you want to churn your own butter or fix up some bear stew, that's the place to go. It came from the backwash of the '60s, but AFAIK it's still a good DIY resource.
If I was still living in earthquake country (Loma Prieta, 1989) I would still have a Sprint/Nextel phone with the latter's Direct Connect, which is half-duplex. Even if the infrastructure was totally shot, they'd still function directly as walkie-talkies.
I'm in no sense a survivalist, though. If the civil order collapsed I'd probably be standing in line with virtually everyone else. My 9mm Glock 17 wouldn't even come into play --I'm just a geek with a gun.
Still, it's a good idea to stock up one's larder, just in case.
I'm in the SCA. My entire basement is a survival kit.
What you call the end of civilization I call a vacation.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
My strategy is to live in Toronto. We never get any snow (according to my standards) or hurricanes. It's geologically stable, so no quakes. No major dams to burst, or rivers to flood. It's bland and boring.
Prepared? Ha! You live in the middle of a multi-million city. When zombie infection comes, good luck getting out through all the hordes on the streets! ~
Home:
40 cu ft Pantry full of food
5 gal jug filled with dried beans
5 gal jug filled with rice
8000 sqft backyard garden (mostly root crops this time of year)
5 x 5 gal jug filled with drinking water
half a cord of Firewood + ax and bow saw for collecting more
Several sacks of charcoal
Spare tank of propane
Box of candles
Large first aid kit
Iodine tablets
Fire extinguisher
Deep cycle battery + trickle charger + inverter
Large toolbox full of tools
Rechargable flashlights in every bathroom
A fireproof safe, bolted to a concrete floor, containing:
Original copies of important documents
Several USB drives with backups
Cash, other valuables
AR-15 assault rifle + 500 rounds of ammo + cleaning kit
pockets:
cellphone (the lcd screen can be used as a flashlight)
fine tip sharpie pen
on keychain:
4GB USB thumb drive
mini leatherman (scissors, knife, tweezers, screwdriver)
screw top tube containing:
needle+thread, safety pins, waterproof matches,
asprin, antibiotic pills
trunk of car:
Jumper cables
flares
First aid kit
Water
Breakfast bars
plastic bags
duct tape
epoxy glue
needles / thread
parachute cord
pliers
screwdrivers
scissors
$200 in twenty dollar bills
Posting from Christchurch New Zealand. I can talk about a data center here. The recent earthquake was the second one. We had a first one last September.
Last September the UPS lasted until the diesel generator kicked in. There was never any downtime, that includes the BlueGene/L. Not sure how long the fuel was meant to last but it was enough.
February's earthquake was another matter. There is now a 5mm wide crack in the middle of the data center (extends about 20m on each side of the building). This generated dust, the automatic system were triggered as for a fire and air conditioning was cut off immediately and then the systems were shutdown automatically in the next five minutes. The gas to extinguish fire was not released, we are not sure why yet. The fuel was not useful at all last February.
Your experience is limited. Of course there are generators large enough to run even the largest of datacenters indefinitely--provided fuel source and modulo generator reliability. But their power output is not a problem.
http://www.manliftgroup.com/manlift_News_PG.php
--
$tar -xvf
All completely true. Unfortunately, it seems that any time firearms are mentioned anywhere as a useful tool, the hordes descend to focus on all the multitude of ways a person is not able to do anything useful with them, ever. So the conversation gets bogged down in semantic arguments, and can't move on to discussion of all the other important aspects of disaster preparedness. The "You can't do that" or "That won't work" statements usually rely on assuming specific conditions, which is absurd when talking about general disaster preparedness. However, those who feel they must focus on why others are crazy for owning and learning how to use one specific tool are not going to go away, so we'll have to live with the derailments they cause.
If such a huge disaster happens you'll probably just die anyway, and if you don't, what's left of it is probably going to suck. It's such a waste of a good life to live it in fear of what *might* happen. Lighten up and increase the quality of your current life instead.
My other account has a 3-digit UID.
Sounds pretty cool, but allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a bit. I promise I'm not trolling, but your post brought up a lot of questions:
What happens when the disaster/antichrist/zombies/alien-invasion/whatever starts killing off members, catches some members on vacation somewheres else entirely, cripples/debilitates members, or similar?
What if the disaster involves something (or occurs during anything) that hinders any kind of transportation for more than a week (e.g. blizzard or ice storm)?
Even when everything goes right and you all make it to sanctuary, you'll likely have to deal with the usual inter-personal conflicts that tend to arise in any group that's not already used to living together 24/7/365. That latter part is a natural result of any group of mammals getting together for the first time - you gotta sort out the Alpha Male, etc... have you sorted that out, and actually tested it out under simulated conditions?
What happens if one of your members becomes diabetic and dependent on insulin (or, say, finds themselves in a similar medical condition or pre-apocalyptic injury that requires civilized society to remain alive)? You kick 'em out of the group? And what happens if a few members start telling their girlfriends/neighbors/etc?
Incidentally, if you can walk to something in about a day or two, err, so can pretty much anyone else who has working legs. How do you fend off folks who are just following along - do you shoot them? What if there are children tagging along?
What if there's a group of similarly-armed folks who happen to notice you (and maybe a friend or two) wandering along towards your waypoint lugging all those supplies? Can you deal with an ambush or attack by folks who know that locale far better than you do?
Speaking of which, how do you deal with locals at your destination who may take issue with you hunting/fishing off of their territory?
How do you lug along all those supplies without anyone else noticing (and taking immediate interest), anyway?
Long term?
I ask all of this because I meet a lot of people, and in conversations over the years, almost *everyone* has the same idea you expressed, in various forms - get out into the woods with weapons and supplies, and proceed to live off the land in some sort of post-apocalyptic yet romanticized fashion. Seems almost safer to hunker down in town, what with everyone else migrating out to the woods...
Now mind you, I live in Oregon. I can find myself in the middle of woods and wildlife in less than a day, on foot. I can be out in actual no-shit wilderness in two days on foot, and I can be on the coast after walking a week - where towns are few and far between. OTOH, there are literally about a million other people who live nearby. Somehow, I'm not seeing myself being able to blast my way through even a small percentage of them, or to sneak past 'em with a shitload of survival supplies. Just not picturing it... at all. Unless one lives in an extremely rural environment (e.g. Alaska, Montana, North Dakota, etc)? I'm guessing that similar issues are going to be more than present.
I'm guessing that this is why I only keep an essentials kit (food, water, and I guess my hunting firearms may work in a pinch), but instead figure that anything beyond a rough outline is, well, kind of crazy.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
The ones in this group imo could not defend themselves if their life depended on it.
Already today you have gun owners defending their life and property.
However, the fact that your argument is wrong does not invalidate your conclusion: If you live in or near a city, a major disaster hits and people suspect that you have canned food chances are that you will run out of bullets, will to kill or the part of your aiming that depends on luck* before the city runs out of people wanting your canned food.
* training at shooting reduces that fraction but it will still be there
Spelling/grammar nazis welcome (English is not my first language and I am trying to improve my spelling/grammar)
Lots of Salisbury Steaks, Rad Away, and a 10mm pistol. After the nuclear apocalypse, 10mm rounds become common as hell, apparently.
Yeah, that just happened.
There'd be more damage caused if the Maple Leafs ever won the Stanley Cup than a meteor could do.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
I think the most important factor is which of disaster/antichrist/zombies/alien-invasion/whatever it is, exactly. Mostly I suspect your hunker down at home plan is the best in most cases.
Let's see:
* disaster - local (blizzard) wait it out. global - meteor plunges the Earth in darkness for 100 years - pfft
* antichrist - I take this to mean really bad political change, If you don't literally mean a big-G God intervening... well running to the hills might help, if you think you'll do better as a "freedom fighter". Especially if they are rounding folks up by the cattle car.
* zombies - Not gonna happen 99.9999%. Unless you mean some sort of virus type thing... Wait it out (see below)
* alien invasion - Not gonna happen 99.99999999999%. If it does, see below, but note rules for antichrist, above.
* whatever - This has wide range. Do you hear voices? Seek help now.
Seems like either waiting "it" out will allow the issue to resolve itself, or at least winnow out the competition. If it is a cosmic event of species extincting proportions, you, personally, are screwed and only by the most random of chances will homo sapiens survive.
If you are really gung-ho, you are probably better of just moving to the middle of nowhere now, or at least take up back-country camping as a hobby and hoping that the end times come when you are on vacation.
The bottom line is that you should have at least a small stockpile of basic supplies, whether one of the basics includes a firearm or not depends what you are being prepared for, and how friendly you think people are within looting distance of you. Sadly much of America is no longer (if it ever was) as polite as Japan is. I've heard there is no word for "looting" in Japanese...
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Data center not too far from my house has the capabilities to run their entire center off diesel generators. They test it once a month. http://www.liquidweb.com/datacenter/datacenter3.html
Wow, lots of questions.. But thank you for asking.
Well, they have the plan, and they know where we're going. It's the unfortunately decision between "save everyone" and "save the ones you can". That's why we set gracious times to get to each waypoint. If one of the party is starting from elsewhere (say 1000 miles away), it would be up to them to figure out how to get there.
There are plenty of things that could happen from their initial starting point to the first waypoint where they meet everyone. Maybe they did not survive the initial disaster. Maybe they found another group who had a better plan. Maybe they make it across their front yard, and broke their ankle. Traveling in teams is ideal. If one person is injured to the point of not making the walk, others on the team could help. For the most part, the teams are families (blood relatives, significant others, etc), so there shouldn't be anyone traveling by themselves.
A blizzard or ice storm doesn't really qualify as an apocalyptic event. The snow will stop, utilities will be restored rapidly.
Well... Things happen. Me, being the good Alpha Male, would do my best to lead to "sanctuary" [flashbacks of Logan's Run], but I recognize the fact that the group may decide they want someone else in the group to lead, or they may split into another group. That's normal for our species.
Well, that's part of the survival supplies. If we cannot find a way to help them, they're still screwed regardless of where they go.
Well, as long as they're not screaming "hey, we're going to Utopia! Our friends know how to save us all!", it's kind of doubtful that too many people would just go following some complete strangers off to who knows where.
Generally, it's a good thing to have extra hands in your group. I by myself I can hopefully survive. As a sufficient size group, we have people who can farm, cook, rebuild whatever technology we can get our hands on (i.e., improvised hydroelectric power, plumbing, refrigeration, transportation).
Well, that's why it's
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Hurricane Electric ran their Fremont datacenter on generator power for about one week during power equipment maintenance by the local electric company (evidently power was going to be unreliable for that week, so they opted to run full-time on the generator rather than switch on and off frequently), according to a rep I met with several years ago. He claims they burned through about 5,000 gallons of diesel during that time.
Their generator is big.
>If none of the stuff you normally like keeps, you are not eating right.
Not to be picky, but eating fresh fruit and vegetables means someone is not eating right? (Yes, of course you're not going to be able to find these in a disaster) For what it's worth, the shelf life of Chunky Soup is 1-2 years, maybe a bit longer if it's in a cold root cellar most of the time.
>Real survivalists stock MRE's
I'd argue that real survivalists stock dehydrated foods, dry beans, rice, wheat, yeast, cooking oil (watch the shelf life on this) and the like. These items allow for a much greater flexibility in preparation over a long period of time (shelf life can be 10 years+ pretty easily), and don't result in the digestive "features" of MREs. (Not to mention, MREs are outrageously expensive in comparison and shelf life is supposed to be 5-7 years) You definitely don't want to live on them. For a day or two if you absolutely positively can't find any water or fuel, OK, but if you don't have those, you have bigger problems anyway.
My ancestors escaped Russia in pre-WWI, because they saw which way the wind was blowing. If they had followed the advice of "survivalists" and "emergency prep gurus", including those in this thread, they would be dead.
The thing that no one (and no one in this thread talks about it either) talks about as a component of emergency preparedness is having infrastructure in another country to sustain you: bank accounts, storage lockers, businesses, and a second passport to get there. A storage locker in a foreign country can run as little as $20 a month, and a foot locker in a friend's garage there often is free. For as little as $500 you can have an entirely separate life to get to in the event your current country goes psychotic - and yet no one does this.
"Bugging in" doesn't work if the local disaster is longer than 3 weeks in length as you become a target after local supplies are exhausted.
"Bugging out" to the countryside doesn't work either, as then you're more isolated and are a target as well.
When my ancestors saw the conscription and farm confiscations, they set up a base of operations in Chicago with distant relatives. They had a trunk pre-packed in the cellar. When the government came to town and started grabbing all the males for the army, they grabbed the trunk, hopped a boat, and were running a successful butcher shop in Chicago three months later. Everyone who stayed died or was enslaved - the "bugged in" ones had their houses burned down around them and the "bugged out" ones were rounded up and shot eventually.
Their successful business also allowed my great-grandfather's family to send money and supplies to anticommunist groups at virtually no risk to himself in the US, and they were proud when the USSR finally fell. Their old bug-out trunk is still in my basement, and I have the first money my family ever made in the US hung in a frame on the wall, it's a 1904 Morgan silver dollar.
In another part of my family, all their eggs were in one basket despite being wealthy. They didn't leave the country when the Nazis took power, and as a result half of them died in death camps.