Ask Slashdot: How Prepared Are You For a Major Emergency?

The northern US has been buried under snow several times this winter, and flooding has struck quite a few places in the southwest. Those pale, though, beside the recent disasters in Haiti, New Zealand, and Japan, and the seemingly inevitable arrival of a serious earthquake on the West Coast of the US. All of which has me thinking about my (meager) preparedness for a major disaster. Despite plans to stock up in case of a major storm or other emergency, right now I'd be down mostly to canned beans, sardines and Nutella. How prepared are you to do deal with a disaster affecting your region? Is your data safe? What about your family? Do you have escape, regrouping, or survival plans in the event of an earthquake, tsunami, hurricane, industrial accident, or whatever hazards are most relevant where you live? It would be helpful if in comments you disclose your region and environment (urban? rural? exurbs?) and the emergencies you consider worth preparing for, as well as talking about any steps you've taken or plan to take.

Comments

talking about data how safe are the data centers /

[Joe The Dragon]

talking about data how safe are the data centers / cables that link them? How long does the on site fuel last? (with out refill?) even if they have refill plans that fuel may get pulled and sent to other places that need it and the data center may have no say in that.

Ah. Survival.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can just -hear- the sound of American apocalyptic-loving gun-toting war-is-romance people getting a hard-on. All right, lets get this over with; list your silly "must-have" apoc survival kits.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[NotAGoodNickname]

I keep my rocket launcher in case I get hungry and need to hunt rabbits. You called it! All the small-penises are trotting out their gun collections now!

Re:Ah. Survival.

[phantomfive]

It's not about apocalypse, it's about real disasters that happen, and being prepared. Myself, living in the San Francisco area, I know that an earthquake is coming. In LA, they have fires every year. In some places it might be flooding. In Japan they had an earthquake, flooding, and a nuclear (almost) disaster.

It doesn't hurt to be prepared for these kinds of things. In my case, I have three days worth of food stored as non-perishable MREs. If you live in a cold climate, you should have blankets and things to keep warm, just in case the power goes out (because sometimes it does). Might want to have a few gallons of water, and/or a water purifier, as well. That can come in handy even during routine water shutoffs.
BRAnd of course, if you don't have toilet paper, you will wish you did. :)

Re:Ah. Survival.

[Moryath]

Blankets and sleeping bags.

Nonperishable food items (canned veg, dehydrated or canned soup with long shelf life, rice, flour, etc).

Drinking water. (Get a few of those water-delivery jugs, fill them up when your region gets a hurricane warning).

Flashlights, matches and candles for light. In addition to the long-lived "safety" candles, I have a few bags of cheap tealights.

Ample supply of firewood/charcoal and a grill or firepit to cook with. Having both isn't bad - they're both usable any old time.

Some rope, tarp, hammer and nails won't hurt you.
If you're in a hurricane region, it won't hurt to install some locking flip latches and measure some plywood to cover easily-damaged or large windows. Beats having to repair the window after a hurricane and you don't have the "nail holes in the house" problem after. The flip latches will hold the plywood down perfectly snug.

A few board games and books just so you don't get fucking bored as hell.

Radio (either crank powered or stock spare batteries) so you can get weather and news reports.

There you go. Sure, there are people who will suggest a bunch of other crap, but that's the basics. If you're someone who goes camping with any regularity, you should have at least half of this crap on hand already.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[Artifakt]

I've got food, basic medical, firewood, and a back up solar and rechargeable battery system to keep flashlights and a small TV or laptop running. I've got a little ammo for the M-16 too, but that's way down on my list. I'm expecting intermittent power failures and an inability to buy some foodstuffs such as Chilean grapes and California oranges at any reasonable price, if the economy gets bad enough. I fill my diabetes related prescriptions 2 months ahead now, for the same reason. Tons of ammo is for the Zombieclypse, not any real threat. If I thought there was a serious threat of, say, Nuclear Winter, I would have worked in wind power instead of solar. If I wasn't already a credit union member I would have switched to improve my 'run on the banks' defense posture', but my expected worse case doesn't even run to needing silver coin to bribe corrupt government thugs, let alone putting all my money in gold and hiding it under the bed.

Here's some other things I think are reasonable extra costs some people should consider for protection against various disasters and collapses:
Have your money divided between two unrelated institutions - If you are married and simply have to use credit, at least have some separate cards from different major providers. Avoid banks that are part of big chains, if you can. If you have stocks, ask yourself it a lot of them would take a hit if some one event happens in some one distant geographic area. I don't think the minor radiation release in Japan is the harbinger of universal armaggeddon, but it's an example of why you don't want to have all your money in a restaurant chain that is just now boasting of using Kobe beef and a semiconductor firm and be thinking you are safely diversified.
The most critical vitamin is C, especially during the winter, followed by D for women who might become pregnant. If you think the food supply might be short of either Vitamin D fortified milk or citrus fruits and dark green veggies, keep some of these on the shelf. You can go a decade with not getting enough selenium if you actually live in one of the rare low selenium parts of the world, but Scurvy comes on quickly in winter, and women who have sex should assume they need vitamin D just in case the birth control fails, regardless of the disaster related factors
Real survivalists stock MRE's - the rest of us stock canned goods. Chunky soup is nice. Stock things you normally eat, so your diet stays like normal as much as possible in an emergency. Suddenly changing what kind of food you get can make you sick, especially with other stressors.If none of the stuff you normally like keeps, you are not eating right, and have another problem than disaster survival.
Serious shortages of pet food are likely to happen even before light or intermittent shortages of people food - stockpile for your pets.
Find a place that sells locally grown produce. Chat them up and make friends with the owner and regular workers, and go there at least every couple of weeks so you count as a regular. When fuel hits 6$ a gallon, nothing will come in to the major chain grocery stores that ships by containerized vessel or semi truck. You want some supplier who knows you and will maybe actually hold back a few apples just for your kids, when the national chains are carrying only starchy produce like potatoes, and other really basic items. That scenario is a lot more likely than no stores at all and no food except what you can shoot.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Arguably, the hardocre apocalyptic gun-toters know that they don't really need survival kits: All they need is a list of nearby people who have survival kits, and their existing supplies of guns and ammunition...

Re:Ah. Survival.

[rainmouse]

Is it me or does this entire thread seem to state that Americans are preparing for natural disasters by arming up and getting ready to play real life MW2 with their neighbours?

Re:Ah. Survival.

[JWSmythe]

    You know, I call my emergency plan "The Apocalypse Plan" or "The End of the World Plan"

    The plan is distributed throughout my group of "survivors". Three meeting points, with the plan for the final destination are included.

    Supplies include weapons and plenty of ammunition, food (MREs, water, water treatment, etc), clothing, personal supplies (toothpaste, toilet paper, feminine needs), medical supplies (basic first responder kit), and vehicle supplies (extra gas, spare parts, etc).

    And of course, people ask "Why weapons?" Well, since this world is such a kind gentle place, it'd be perfectly safe walking or driving through a group of desperate people with enough supplies to live a few weeks on. Oh ya, you wouldn't be safe. Beyond that, you may (and likely will) need to use them for hunting when the food supplies run out.

    If it is a prolonged period of civil unrest, you may find weapons your best friend. Well, I guess the best friend is the person who can use the weapons most efficiently.

    The meeting points are staged along a predetermined evacuation route. Multiple routes are provided to each waypoint. Each waypoint was chosen for relative isolation, access to fresh water and wildlife, and access by car, large vehicle (bus/large truck) and aircraft. So you should be able to walk, drive, or fly there (there are a few licensed pilots in the group).

    We all know the parties who should be able to arrive, so once the entire party has grouped at one of the waypoints (hopefully the first).

    Distance to the waypoints and regrouping times (how long we wait) is based on at least double the walking time. If it takes an hour to drive, or a day to walk, we give 3 days. So waypoint 1 would be 3 days (E+3d). Waypoint 2 would be 2 weeks (E+17d). Waypoint 3 would be another 2 weeks (E+31d).

    We plan to add shortwave radio to the plan. Right now, we only have one licensed operator. Not that licenses matter much in a state of emergency. When your region has just been leveled by a natural disaster, having the FAA show up to fine or arrest you would be welcome. "Fine, arrest me. Get me out of here."

Re:Ah. Survival.

[The Archon V2.0]

All right, lets get this over with; list your silly "must-have" apoc survival kits.

Emergency kit: Food, water, radio, flashlight, batteries, first aid kit, etc.

Apocalypse kit: A Real Doll and enough booze and drugs to forget the "Doll" part.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[camperdave]

My strategy is to live in Toronto. We never get any snow (according to my standards) or hurricanes. It's geologically stable, so no quakes. No major dams to burst, or rivers to flood. It's bland and boring. The worst disaster to hit these parts was the blackout of 2003, and even that was more or less over in about 8 hours.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[SerpentMage]

You are not going to get any better rating for that comment, but frankly your answer is the best.

When people say they are going to get ready, well they ain't gonna be ready. Why? Simple, the 4 unknowns. Rumsfeld talked about the 3, and forgot about the unkown knowns. Namely we think it can't happen to us.

So for example when people say they have guns they say, "oh we are ready to be armed and take on anybody that takes our food". What they forget is that if life is that dire they would not last 10 minutes because those people who will win are the gangsta's! You see they will take anything from anybody, and the ones who protect themselves are not equipped to deal with the trauma of having to shoot people.

The gangsta's are used to chaos, they are used using a gun to shoot and kill people. The ones in this group imo could not defend themselves if their life depended on it. I am willing to bet that one. So your answer imo is the best answer because it means getting out of the way!

Re:Ah. Survival.

[shutdown -p now]

My strategy is to live in Toronto. We never get any snow (according to my standards) or hurricanes. It's geologically stable, so no quakes. No major dams to burst, or rivers to flood. It's bland and boring.

Prepared? Ha! You live in the middle of a multi-million city. When zombie infection comes, good luck getting out through all the hordes on the streets! ~

Re:Ah. Survival.

[sumdumass]

No it's not just you.

But it is mostly the people who wouldn't know how to shoot a gun to save their own life and likely the ones who would be shot or starve to death who is making the comments seem like that.

Maybe that's where you are getting the un-sure-ness from.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[afterthought]

You really believe "the ones who protect themselves are not equipped to deal with the trauma of having to shoot people." William Golding and the generation of people who read Lord of Flies disagree with you. If someone is going to try and take away supplies, the owner is going to fight. Period. They have nothing else. The "gansta's" may eventually dominate through shear brutality, however that does not stop people in the initial stages from defending themselves. There were several reports of people defending their property and neighborhoods from roving looters after Katrina and during the Egyptian riots.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[Per Wigren]

If such a huge disaster happens you'll probably just die anyway, and if you don't, what's left of it is probably going to suck. It's such a waste of a good life to live it in fear of what *might* happen. Lighten up and increase the quality of your current life instead.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[westlake]

There you go. Sure, there are people who will suggest a bunch of other crap, but that's the basics.

I would add a well-equipted first aid kit and any prescription/non prescription medications and other medical supplies that are likely to be needed.

Don't neglet smoke alarms and carbon-monoxide detectors. In each winter blast we lose a few here to CO poisoning.

Keep a working phone connected to that old land line.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[Penguinisto]

Sounds pretty cool, but allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a bit. I promise I'm not trolling, but your post brought up a lot of questions:

What happens when the disaster/antichrist/zombies/alien-invasion/whatever starts killing off members, catches some members on vacation somewheres else entirely, cripples/debilitates members, or similar?

What if the disaster involves something (or occurs during anything) that hinders any kind of transportation for more than a week (e.g. blizzard or ice storm)?

Even when everything goes right and you all make it to sanctuary, you'll likely have to deal with the usual inter-personal conflicts that tend to arise in any group that's not already used to living together 24/7/365. That latter part is a natural result of any group of mammals getting together for the first time - you gotta sort out the Alpha Male, etc... have you sorted that out, and actually tested it out under simulated conditions?

What happens if one of your members becomes diabetic and dependent on insulin (or, say, finds themselves in a similar medical condition or pre-apocalyptic injury that requires civilized society to remain alive)? You kick 'em out of the group? And what happens if a few members start telling their girlfriends/neighbors/etc?

Incidentally, if you can walk to something in about a day or two, err, so can pretty much anyone else who has working legs. How do you fend off folks who are just following along - do you shoot them? What if there are children tagging along?

What if there's a group of similarly-armed folks who happen to notice you (and maybe a friend or two) wandering along towards your waypoint lugging all those supplies? Can you deal with an ambush or attack by folks who know that locale far better than you do?

Speaking of which, how do you deal with locals at your destination who may take issue with you hunting/fishing off of their territory?

How do you lug along all those supplies without anyone else noticing (and taking immediate interest), anyway?

Long term?

I ask all of this because I meet a lot of people, and in conversations over the years, almost *everyone* has the same idea you expressed, in various forms - get out into the woods with weapons and supplies, and proceed to live off the land in some sort of post-apocalyptic yet romanticized fashion. Seems almost safer to hunker down in town, what with everyone else migrating out to the woods...

Now mind you, I live in Oregon. I can find myself in the middle of woods and wildlife in less than a day, on foot. I can be out in actual no-shit wilderness in two days on foot, and I can be on the coast after walking a week - where towns are few and far between. OTOH, there are literally about a million other people who live nearby. Somehow, I'm not seeing myself being able to blast my way through even a small percentage of them, or to sneak past 'em with a shitload of survival supplies. Just not picturing it... at all. Unless one lives in an extremely rural environment (e.g. Alaska, Montana, North Dakota, etc)? I'm guessing that similar issues are going to be more than present.

I'm guessing that this is why I only keep an essentials kit (food, water, and I guess my hunting firearms may work in a pinch), but instead figure that anything beyond a rough outline is, well, kind of crazy.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[Penguinisto]

The gangsta's are used to chaos...

No, they are used to operating in a general environment of order and calm. It is almost always required in order for them to insure their victims are unaware of any impending danger, and to operate with any semblance of stealth.

...they are used using a gun to shoot and kill people.

I suspect you've been watching too much truTV. Look past the BS bravado and attempts at intimidating speech and music. You'll find that the vast majority have never (ever) fired a weapon in anger, and most likely have zero actual training in the use of a firearm. The few who have used one are almost all not used to having someone fire back. Very few actual gang members (let's call it less than 0.5%) have ever had to deal with even a close analogue of attacking a watchful, armed, desperate, and fully determined individual (let alone a group) for the purposes of survival.

I also suspect that a very large percentage of them will be too busy fighting the various demons of narcotic withdrawal.

The ones in this group imo could not defend themselves if their life depended on it. I am willing to bet that one.

I'm willing to bet that *most* people, of *any* persuasion ("gangsta" or not) could not defend themselves if their lives depended on it.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[sveinungkv]

The ones in this group imo could not defend themselves if their life depended on it.

Already today you have gun owners defending their life and property.

However, the fact that your argument is wrong does not invalidate your conclusion: If you live in or near a city, a major disaster hits and people suspect that you have canned food chances are that you will run out of bullets, will to kill or the part of your aiming that depends on luck* before the city runs out of people wanting your canned food.

* training at shooting reduces that fraction but it will still be there

Re:Ah. Survival.

[Culture20]

You can just -hear- the sound of American apocalyptic-loving gun-toting war-is-romance people getting a hard-on.

Silly AC, they ingest saltpeter to prevent getting more mouths to feed.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[Culture20]

That was always my Oregon Trail strategy.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[sixteenbitsamurai]

Lots of Salisbury Steaks, Rad Away, and a 10mm pistol. After the nuclear apocalypse, 10mm rounds become common as hell, apparently.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[couchslug]

You needn't be hardcore to be well-armed any more than you do to have fire extinguishers around the house, shop etc.

If you need either one and don't have it handy you're in a world of shit. :)

Re:Ah. Survival.

[NotQuiteReal]

I think the most important factor is which of disaster/antichrist/zombies/alien-invasion/whatever it is, exactly. Mostly I suspect your hunker down at home plan is the best in most cases.

Let's see:

* disaster - local (blizzard) wait it out. global - meteor plunges the Earth in darkness for 100 years - pfft
* antichrist - I take this to mean really bad political change, If you don't literally mean a big-G God intervening... well running to the hills might help, if you think you'll do better as a "freedom fighter". Especially if they are rounding folks up by the cattle car.
* zombies - Not gonna happen 99.9999%. Unless you mean some sort of virus type thing... Wait it out (see below)
* alien invasion - Not gonna happen 99.99999999999%. If it does, see below, but note rules for antichrist, above.
* whatever - This has wide range. Do you hear voices? Seek help now.


Seems like either waiting "it" out will allow the issue to resolve itself, or at least winnow out the competition. If it is a cosmic event of species extincting proportions, you, personally, are screwed and only by the most random of chances will homo sapiens survive.

If you are really gung-ho, you are probably better of just moving to the middle of nowhere now, or at least take up back-country camping as a hobby and hoping that the end times come when you are on vacation.

The bottom line is that you should have at least a small stockpile of basic supplies, whether one of the basics includes a firearm or not depends what you are being prepared for, and how friendly you think people are within looting distance of you. Sadly much of America is no longer (if it ever was) as polite as Japan is. I've heard there is no word for "looting" in Japanese...

Re:Ah. Survival.

[JWSmythe]

Wow, lots of questions.. But thank you for asking.

What happens when the disaster/antichrist/zombies/alien-invasion/whatever starts killing off members, catches some members on vacation somewheres else entirely, cripples/debilitates members, or similar?

Well, they have the plan, and they know where we're going. It's the unfortunately decision between "save everyone" and "save the ones you can". That's why we set gracious times to get to each waypoint. If one of the party is starting from elsewhere (say 1000 miles away), it would be up to them to figure out how to get there.

There are plenty of things that could happen from their initial starting point to the first waypoint where they meet everyone. Maybe they did not survive the initial disaster. Maybe they found another group who had a better plan. Maybe they make it across their front yard, and broke their ankle. Traveling in teams is ideal. If one person is injured to the point of not making the walk, others on the team could help. For the most part, the teams are families (blood relatives, significant others, etc), so there shouldn't be anyone traveling by themselves.

What if the disaster involves something (or occurs during anything) that hinders any kind of transportation for more than a week (e.g. blizzard or ice storm)?

A blizzard or ice storm doesn't really qualify as an apocalyptic event. The snow will stop, utilities will be restored rapidly.

Even when everything goes right and you all make it to sanctuary, you'll likely have to deal with the usual inter-personal conflicts that tend to arise in any group that's not already used to living together 24/7/365. That latter part is a natural result of any group of mammals getting together for the first time - you gotta sort out the Alpha Male, etc... have you sorted that out, and actually tested it out under simulated conditions?

Well... Things happen. Me, being the good Alpha Male, would do my best to lead to "sanctuary" [flashbacks of Logan's Run], but I recognize the fact that the group may decide they want someone else in the group to lead, or they may split into another group. That's normal for our species.

What happens if one of your members becomes diabetic and dependent on insulin (or, say, finds themselves in a similar medical condition or pre-apocalyptic injury that requires civilized society to remain alive)? You kick 'em out of the group? And what happens if a few members start telling their girlfriends/neighbors/etc?

Well, that's part of the survival supplies. If we cannot find a way to help them, they're still screwed regardless of where they go.

Incidentally, if you can walk to something in about a day or two, err, so can pretty much anyone else who has working legs. How do you fend off folks who are just following along - do you shoot them? What if there are children tagging along?

Well, as long as they're not screaming "hey, we're going to Utopia! Our friends know how to save us all!", it's kind of doubtful that too many people would just go following some complete strangers off to who knows where.

Generally, it's a good thing to have extra hands in your group. I by myself I can hopefully survive. As a sufficient size group, we have people who can farm, cook, rebuild whatever technology we can get our hands on (i.e., improvised hydroelectric power, plumbing, refrigeration, transportation).

What if there's a group of similarly-armed folks who happen to notice you (and maybe a friend or two) wandering along towards your waypoint lugging all those supplies? Can you deal with an ambush or attack by folks who know that locale far better than you do?

Well, that's why it's

Re:Ah. Survival.

[Penguinisto]

Love the last comment. :)

Thanks much for replying. It's been rather interesting, and even a bit educational.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[bakes]

If JWSmythe and his group are reviewing the plan every week and trying it out twice a year, then yes they are all living in fear for something that is very unlikely. If they made the plan, and review/test once every 3-4 years or so (which could even be a good social occasion: two weeks hiking/camping with buddies - yay!) then it's probable they don't think about it most of the time, and just live their lives.

Fair point, though.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[riverat1]

I keep my rocket launcher in case I get hungry and need to hunt rabbits.

And the advantage to that is the rabbit is not only killed but cooked as well.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[wrook]

More importantly, if the shit really hits the fan you won't survive alone. There is a reason humans live in groups. It seems romantic to image yourself as a solitary heroic figure polishing off wave after wave on oncoming zombie hordes. But actually, you will have a much easier time if you give the weapons a rest and make friends instead. When the end of civilization comes, you're going to want someone watching your back. Preferably a lot of someones. Now is the time to get involved in your community, meet your neighbours and forge relationships that will endure through the collapse of modern society.

That and it might get you laid, which is always good.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[DrLang21]

If they're reviewing the plan every week and trying it twice a year, then they're probably having a blast. Survivalists enjoy doing this kind of stuff. Be glad there are people out there with this hobby.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[Cynic]

>If none of the stuff you normally like keeps, you are not eating right.

Not to be picky, but eating fresh fruit and vegetables means someone is not eating right? (Yes, of course you're not going to be able to find these in a disaster) For what it's worth, the shelf life of Chunky Soup is 1-2 years, maybe a bit longer if it's in a cold root cellar most of the time.

>Real survivalists stock MRE's

I'd argue that real survivalists stock dehydrated foods, dry beans, rice, wheat, yeast, cooking oil (watch the shelf life on this) and the like. These items allow for a much greater flexibility in preparation over a long period of time (shelf life can be 10 years+ pretty easily), and don't result in the digestive "features" of MREs. (Not to mention, MREs are outrageously expensive in comparison and shelf life is supposed to be 5-7 years) You definitely don't want to live on them. For a day or two if you absolutely positively can't find any water or fuel, OK, but if you don't have those, you have bigger problems anyway.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[elrous0]

It's like Christopher Titus once said. During a disaster, pussies cower in their houses. Real men run to the now-unguarded Ferrari dealerships.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[mrchaotica]

I ask all of this because I meet a lot of people, and in conversations over the years, almost *everyone* has the same idea you expressed, in various forms - get out into the woods with weapons and supplies, and proceed to live off the land in some sort of post-apocalyptic yet romanticized fashion. Seems almost safer to hunker down in town, what with everyone else migrating out to the woods...

Everyone you've had a conversation with has had the same idea. But that doesn't mean the towns will be empty; they'll still be filled with all the other people to whom it never occurred to have such a conversation.

Re:Ah. Survival.

[Paul Fernhout]

Basically echoes your points:
    http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/themainmessage.htm
""If You Leave Home Without A Place To Go, You Are a Refugee". 'Bug Out Bags' and 'Heading For The Hills To Live Off The Land' are popular ideas that don't work... We have Many articles about Why it doesn't work, but forget "Hunting and trapping and 'living in Remote Areas'". There is no such thing as "Remote areas" in the Lower 48 states... Africa, Asia, the Steps of Russia, etc, are Truly remote areas, and they were Always hit by waves of smallpox and other plagues carried only by humans! Nothing in the Lower 48 is "really remote", it's a false sense of security if that's what you are depending on. "Living in the Country in a small self-sustaining community is better".. but it's not the "End all Answer". It's better than living in the city.. but it's not a protection by itself, it simply gives you an edge If You Prepare Further. Remember, when city people get scared, they blindly "Head for the country".. right to where You are living. Is the cost of living in the country worth the little added extra protection? Only you can decide that.. personally I simply prefer Not living in crowded places, but at the same time, I know my little country town may Fill Up with people fleeing the cities, and I have prepared for that. "

LIving in the Adirondacks, myself. :-) But that is mostly as land was cheap (no one likes biting blackfiles and lots of snow and ice) and my wife likes living around forest.

But what will where I live be like with a million people from NYC coming here as a horde and shooting each other? The deer will also probably last about a week, if that... Then what?

See also, to echo your point:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110706_mcr_evolution.shtml

Better to work towards a world where our infrastructure is resilient and our security focus is on being intrinsic and mutual.
http://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-is-a-key-to-transcending-militarism.html
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Economic_Transformation

Are you armed?

[HornWumpus]

Mod me troll. I don't care.

I've got a M1 rifle, a 12 gauge pump and a Colt Python as personal weapons.

That and a backpack full of gear I can live out of and a 4x4 that's already been up the Rubicon trail many times.

Re:Are you armed?

[Nidi62]

Yep. I've got a .30-06 and a 16guage SxS for hunting, and a 9mm Sig for personal protection. I think I'd do ok in an emergency situation.

Re:Are you armed?

[Anonymous Coward]

If I was surrounded by Americans I would want to be armed too.

Re:Are you armed?

[Ynot_82]

Bit of a silly response, don't you think?

OP talks about preparing for a natural disaster
What you going to do, shoot the water as it swirls round your feet

Re:Are you armed?

[JohnRoss1968]

With an attitude like that you'd better be!!!
just kidding
kind of
maybe

Re:Are you armed?

[HackHackBoom]

Good man. The 12 gauge in particular. I'm a big believer personally in Remington myself. I have a 700 long action tuned for long distance shooting and another 700 short action tuned for 100 yards.

As for gear, I made a post myself which pretty fairly lays it out.

Re:Are you armed?

[JohnRoss1968]

Why not or are you some kind of save the water freak.

Re:Are you armed?

[Nidi62]

Bit of a silly response, don't you think?

OP talks about preparing for a natural disaster What you going to do, shoot the water as it swirls round your feet

While people are lining up outside relief tents to get their MREs or Spam, we can be out hunting deer, turkey, dove, quail, etc. While you're eating rehydrated bread, we can be dining on some roast duck or deer tenderloin steak. You think during a flood you'll be able to drive down to the local McDonald's and order up a burger?

Re:Are you armed?

[Anonymous Coward]

The snowflakes are coming!!! SHOOT TO KILL!!!

Re:Are you armed?

[Anonymous Coward]

<sarcasm>Yeah guns are really important, just look at all the japanese right now, without their guns they are really screwed.
I see them respectfully/calmly queing for food and water, it would be much easier if they were all just shooting each other.</sarcasm>

dumb fucks... :-/

Re:Are you armed?

[Nikkos]

Considering there was looting, rape, and murder in Haiti as well as numerous reports of looting and other issues in New Zealand, maybe it's not so silly.

Sometimes it's not the disaster you have to prepare for, it's the aftermath.

Re:Are you armed?

[countertrolling]

I got a BB gun and a wrist rocket. Think I'd be able to put somebody's eye out?

Re:Are you armed?

[NotAGoodNickname]

Japan Tsunami = massive natural disaster - GUN TOTING POPULATION -> no looting & roving gangs -> no murder, assault -> no need for way to "protect" self and family Thai Tsunami = massive natural disaster - GUN TOTING POPULATION -> no looting & roving gangs -> no murder, assault -> no need for way to "protect" self and family See a pattern here?

Re:Are you armed?

[countertrolling]

I am.. whenever I see it wash up on the beach, I throw it back...

Re:Are you armed?

[Nidi62]

Well, the university I attend( and live about 5 minutes from) averages about 1 armed robbery per month reported to the school police. I'm right in the middle of a large urban city with a number of gangs that is also a major crossroad for drug distribution in the South East. I don't mess with people, but if they mess with me, they better be prepared.

Re:Are you armed?

[Nidi62]

You don't have to queue up for food when you can go out and kill your own. I've seen deer, fox, rabbits, squirrels, and even a coyote or 2 around my house. Any of that roasted up sounds a lot better than whatever canned shit you'd get from relief workers.

Re:Are you armed?

[NotAGoodNickname]

It sounds like you 1) Might want to move from Atlanta 2) Might want to support removing guns from the general population.

Re:Are you armed?

[cpu6502]

Guns? Hunting?
Bah.
The US is a pretty large country. I'd just move to the opposite coast. If California was hit by a tsunami, I'd dump as much stuff in my trunk as possible, and move to the East. Or vice-versa. Or maybe the middle part where the farmers have tons of food, and lots of generosity.

With such a large area, there's plenty of other places to move to, which are unaffected by the tragedy.

Re:Are you armed?

[phantomfive]

It's not troll, it's paranoid. What sort of disaster are you expecting wherein you would need those kinds of weapons? There aren't many realistic scenarios of that type.

Re:Are you armed?

[Renraku]

I don't think the lack of violence was caused by the lack of weaponry. I think the lack of violence was caused by the Japanese culture. They're all in this together, basically, instead of it being every man and woman for themselves.

Contrast to Katrina, where it was all about 'me' and there were various criminals running around. People still helped people, but things fell apart instead of coming together like the Japanese did. It wasn't 'oh they're out of food today guess we're out of luck' it was 'oh they're out of food today shoot their tires out and loot them who cares if people down the road haven't eaten in three weeks'

Re:Are you armed?

[Nidi62]

Yes, because all those gang members legally own guns. Even if guns were illegal, they'd still have them. I'd rather allow the general population(ie ME) be able to protect ourselves against people that would be armed regardless of the legality of firearm possession.

Re:Are you armed?

[Zedrick]

You forgot to say where you live, but if you need weapons I'm guessing you're in Somalia or some other 3rd world country filled with aggressive lunatics.

Re:Are you armed?

[HornWumpus]

If I were surrounded by N. Americans, S. Americans, Europeans, Asians, Australians or Africans I would definitely be armed. The Antarcticans are the only ones with a remotely peaceful history.

History, learn it.

Re:Are you armed?

[NotAGoodNickname]

Nonsense. There are plenty of countries without roving gangs of armed thugs. It just depends on how much effort the government wants to put into making a country gun-free. Enjoy your constant fear of armed robbery though - it sounds like a good life.

Re:Are you armed?

[maxume]

There is nothing crazy about owning a rifle or shotgun in an area where the deer and turkeys have a higher population density than the people.

Re:Are you armed?

[mcrbids]

How many ducks and deer do you think there *are*? If there was an actual disaster, the deer, duck, quail, and lizard populations would plummet as a teaming horde of well-armed people suddenly ravage the landscape.

We moved to an agricultural society so that we wouldn't have to try to eke out our existence on the little tidbits provided by nature. Wanna prepare? Fine. But don't think for a minute that there will be lots of game waiting for your bullets.

Guns are for self-defense.

Re:Are you armed?

[EagleEyeJoe]

Yes - but do you have your survival kits in case of Zombies? www.DisasterSupplyCatalog.com *chuckle*

Re:Are you armed?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hurricane Katrina? Or did you not see on the news how the homes of the gun owners were the only ones which weren't looted.

Same shit in Egypt during the protests.

Re:Are you armed?

[CodeBuster]

The real "dumb fuck" is the one who refuses to make use of the tools available for survival; including guns. There may come a day, in the not too distant future, where society as we know it collapses. The signs are all around for those who care to look: peak oil, climate change, political unrest, skyrocketing food prices, endless wars etc. Indeed the pace of history is quickening towards an inescapable climax and when things get truly desperate there will be looting, robbing, raping and killing. In such cases, the only thing standing between those horrors and your loved ones may be you and your guns. If you want to survive then you'll have to be prepared and being prepared includes owning guns and knowing how to use them. Then again, failure of less fit members to survive might not be such a bad thing for our species.

Re:Are you armed?

[517714]

Your own.

Re:Are you armed?

[PhilHibbs]

I'm guessing he's in some 1st world country filled with aggressive lunatics like himself, probably the USA.

Re:Are you armed?

[penix1]

If you are waiting until the tragedy happens to be getting out of dodge, then you are a victim waiting to happen. Ever see a full scale evacuation of an urbanized area? Gridlock is an outcome of panicked people trying to leave an area. Good luck with that strategy.

I work emergency management and can tell you from personal experience, the US will be rode hard and put away wet if a catastrophic incident happens today. We don't have the financial capabilities to deal with it and the "something for nothing" crowd we got for politicians these days will cut it even further.

Re:Are you armed?

[517714]

Tsunamis do not happen to gun toting populations. California better get its act together quick!

Re:Are you armed?

[angel'o'sphere]

I don't think the lack of violence was caused by the lack of weaponry. I think the lack of violence was caused by the Japanese culture.

You are very right here. Nevertheless firearms are more or less non existing in the Japanese society.

angel'o'sphere

Re:Are you armed?

[jpedlow]

Its sort of funny, really. When friends say "when the zombies come i'm coming to your place" or "when the earthquake comes, I'm coming to your place" etc etc...not just a few, but all of them. :\

2 Lifted Trucks (well, one's an xj cherokee but it's mostly plate steel nowdays) - Check

Generators, Gas pumps - Check

Guns - Check (M1, M1A, AR15 (magpul bling and an acog), and an STI Edge in 40sw)

But something i'm really most proud of is my server, If human society stopped existing, I've got a backup of books, wikipedia (text only), obligatory media backups etc etc on a 10tb array in a seismic rack [2tb wd blacks and a 3ware 9550 in raid 6 fyi]. And that's relieving to know, that if a guy like me has atleast SOME of humanity's knowledge on backup, there's bound to be hundreds more just like me if the worst DOES happen.

Sorry, Rant off. TL;DR -- I just like being a little prepared, everything else are my hobbies anyway. 4x4'ing, camping and shooting.

Re:Are you armed?

[tranquilidad]

My family needed to be armed during Katrina. My brother-in-law's house was destroyed by a tornado. It took them days to be able to get back to the house and it involved many tools (axes, chainsaws, pry-bars, chains, 4x4 vehicles, etc.). There were no government entities even capable of helping them and the situation required rugged individualism. If you had been there then you too would have probably felt the need to be armed. If you had heard what was happening to the red cross volunteers you probably would have felt the need to be armed as well. It's not paranoia, it's planning.

My family has been trained and are members of CERT (Community Emergency Response Team). The goal of CERT is to train average people to handle disaster situations until first responders can arrive. We've seen multiple instances in recent memory in the U.S. where this can take days or weeks.

I keep a lot of things in case of disaster (in California):
A 40-gallon sealed trash can kept outside with pry tools, hydraulic jacks, first-aid kits, hand cranked radios, food, water, 2-way radios with GPS, axes, etc.
Fire extinguishers
A fueled, portable generator
Inside I have multiple CERT bags and quick-grab bags with essentials
I have firearms for personal protection and I've had appropriate training
Fire insurance
Earthquake insurance
Automobile insurance
Health insurance
Long-term care insurance

I am prepared and I don't expect to use any of the items on this list. However, I have had to use many of the items on this list and I was prepared and able to handle each one of them when the time came.

By your logic, if you need any of the items on this list then you are paranoid. By mine, if you have fewer than this list of items then you are unprepared.

I know that I'm the only one on my street with an earthquake survival and rescue kit. I also know that I would use that kit without hesitation to rescue anyone who was trapped. I would not wait for the "government" to help me. Who will rescue you?

Re:Are you armed?

[Coryoth]

Considering there was looting, rape, and murder in Haiti as well as numerous reports of looting and other issues in New Zealand, maybe it's not so silly.

There was essentially no looting or other such issues in New Zealand. A few people got arrested for attempted looting, but we're talking a few people out of a city of 400,000, who got caught and dealt with by local police before they even managed to do anything. I don't really see that as a problem worthy of significant concern.

Re:Are you armed?

[SomePgmr]

I'd think that depends on where you are, that the vast majority of the local (human) population survives the disaster and following hysteria, is armed, and knows how to hunt. No? Either way, you're right. The defense of person and property might also be important, depending on the scale and location of the disaster.

Re:Are you armed?

[digitalhermit]

Ever cleaned game? Wildlife around urban areas tend to be freaking nasty. Mangy, diseased, bony... Not a lot of deer around my city. Not a lot of wild boar either. So you may end up eating rats and bugs. Make sure that you don't puncture the rat intestine and spill rat feces all over that delectable rat meat when you're cleaning that rat. And rats, though they may grow to be large, are still rats and not much more meat than a single drumstick.

Say all you want about a can of pork and beans or tuna, but I'd much rather eat that than a squirrel. And yes, I've eaten rabbit, deer, wild hog, and snake before... I've never eaten rat though.

Re:Are you armed?

[MartinSchou]

Pardon me for being a bit ... shall we say 'offbeat'.

Why the guns? I don't mean "heavens to Betsy guns are bad, mmmkay?!?". I mean - why go for something that is going to be difficult to resupply in case of a massive catastrophe?

If you go "old school" and go with bow and arrow, not only are you very likely to be able to reuse your ammo, it also becomes very easy to resupply, as you can create your own.

And in case the zombie apocalypse strikes, you don't want to create a lot of noise either.

Re:Are you armed?

[NFN_NLN]

Guns? Hunting?
Bah.
The US is a pretty large country. I'd just move to the opposite coast. If California was hit by a tsunami, I'd dump as much stuff in my trunk as possible, and move to the East. Or vice-versa. Or maybe the middle part where the farmers have tons of food, and lots of generosity.

With such a large area, there's plenty of other places to move to, which are unaffected by the tragedy.

The mouth-breathers (as I like to call them) have a hard enough time navigating rush hour when there isn't an emergency. Just imagine the chaos during an actual event.

- The hoopty that never ran right, but now is no time to quibble, it's an emergency... get it on the road.
- The expensive furniture you just can't leave behind... load it into the SUV
- What's that you expected to just pick up gas during an emergency and drove out at 1/4 tank... you're now a road obstacle
- Road rage during rush hour... meet road rage during a disaster

Sounds like fun...

Re:Are you armed?

[Rob the Bold]

Bit of a silly response, don't you think?

OP talks about preparing for a natural disaster What you going to do, shoot the water as it swirls round your feet

While people are lining up outside relief tents to get their MREs or Spam, we can be out hunting deer, turkey, dove, quail, etc. While you're eating rehydrated bread, we can be dining on some roast duck or deer tenderloin steak. You think during a flood you'll be able to drive down to the local McDonald's and order up a burger?

While you're out, could you gun down a 140-count box of Pampers for me, please? Size 4, but 5 will do in a pinch.You can have some peanut butter . . .

Re:Are you armed?

[Hognoxious]

This is aside from guns being pretty necessary for living off the land scenarios.

People lived off the land for millennia without guns. Or do you think bows, slings and spears were only invented because the cavemen ran out of bullets?

Re:Are you armed?

[NFN_NLN]

Bit of a silly response, don't you think?

OP talks about preparing for a natural disaster
What you going to do, shoot the water as it swirls round your feet

While people are lining up outside relief tents to get their MREs or Spam, we can be out hunting deer, turkey, dove, quail, etc. While you're eating rehydrated bread, we can be dining on some roast duck or deer tenderloin steak. You think during a flood you'll be able to drive down to the local McDonald's and order up a burger?

Hahhah, let's just say the US is teaming with wildlife. If every Jethro is out there shooting everything that moves the only thing you're going to catch is shotgun pellets to the skull.

Considering the number of hunting accidents that already happen with the reduced set of "skilled" hunters... just imagine what would happen if chaos broke loose. You'd be better off with full body armour than guns. Then just wait out all the retards and collect whatever rations are left over.

Re:Are you armed?

[LittleRedStar]

How many ducks and deer do you think there *are*? I

We've got more deer than we know what to do with here in the midwest (KS/NE/MO/IA). Sending the teaming hordes.

Re:Are you armed?

[dkleinsc]

obligatory xkcd that points out the basic problem: It works for 1 guy, it doesn't work for everybody.

Re:Are you armed?

[HornWumpus]

With skills they learned from early childhood on.

The survival skills I learned from early childhood mostly involve guns.

That said I bet I can find more food in the woods without a gun then you.

Re:Are you armed?

[J. T. MacLeod]

Do you think humanity adopted firearms for living off the land just for a change of pace?

No, people with guns ate more. There are good reasons for that.

Re:Are you armed?

[mr_lizard13]

You think during a flood you'll be able to drive down to the local McDonald's and order up a burger?

McDonald's Sail-Thru.

Now there's an idea.

Re:Are you armed?

[Nikkos]

There are millions actually, most states are experiencing overpop problems. Not to mention the domesticated animals (cows, chickens) roving around the countryside. And since their food supplies will be less affected than ours, the wildlife will likely be better off than the humans are.

And there really wouldn't be a horde of people would there? On the scale of event you seem to be talking about, the city-dwellers likely wouldn't make it out of the concrete jungle, and they wouldn't know where to start in terms of hunting strategy, food prep and storage. The only people who think hunting is "easy" are people who haven't done it. Guns are tools used for more than just self-defense.

Re:Are you armed?

[sirsnork]

To expand on this (and living in Christchurch through the earthquakes), it took my wife 6 hours to drive home from work on the 22nd Feb when the last one hit. It's usually a 40 min drive in rush hour traffic.

Gridlock doesn't just happen if there is an evacuation. For the next several weeks going anywhere in the car took easily 3 times as long as expected simply because of the state of the roads and the increased need to travel to survive. Hell, it's been a month and we still don't have working sewers.

Re:Are you armed?

[ColdWetDog]

Anyone who thinks 'evacuation' from an urbanized area is possible in the US ought to watch rush hour in major cities a couple of times. If you live in an urban area and are serious about being prepared for some form of catastrophe, you need to be able to survive in place for at least a couple of weeks. Let all of the beta testers try out the evacuation routes first.

Re:Are you armed?

[Artifakt]

In a situation where radiation is a factor, and could be concentrated by the food chain, queueing up sounds better and better. Let's assume you are a decent marksman and the disaster you are dealing with hasn't hit during really cold weather when everything lairs up as much as possible, and you know enough to spot Tularaemia in rabbits and so on. We'll also assume you have some non-meat food sources too and won't get a protein overdose related psychosis.Those assumptions mean you know more than many legendary mountain men, let alone many modern hunters.Do you really know radiation well enough to make the smart decisions there too?

Re:Are you armed?

[Nikkos]

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/asia/new-zealand-police-sickened-at-looting-in-quake-hit-city/425038

You mean a few people got arrested for stealing generators, sneaking into the the cordoned area, and a guy with Asbergers got the hell beat out of him for breaking into a house to steal lightbulbs and an antique light fixture. People with fake ID's were trying to get into people's homes as well.

Definitely not the majority, but not the absence of issues you claim.

Re:Are you armed?

[ColdWetDog]

You're right but you miss the real point. During hunter-gatherer existence there were no cities of millions of pre zombies oozing out of concrete jungles. Unless you're in an area that is very rural, even the overpopulated deer herds in the middle of the US will be trimmed out in a couple of weeks.

Re:Are you armed?

[ghjm]

Sure. Because guns and ammunition aren't manufactured goods that depend on a complex supply chain that will break down along with the rest of society.

Re:Are you armed?

[dargaud]

Mod me troll. I don't care.

I've got a M1 rifle, a 12 gauge pump and a Colt Python as personal weapons.

That and a backpack full of gear I can live out of and a 4x4 that's already been up the Rubicon trail many times.

Pretty typical answer... Just talked with someone who was in Japan last week and in the US during a major storm couple years ago (Virginia I think, with long power outage and plenty of damage). She said the people behaved very differently, in the US everybody elbowing each others to get anything and everything from the stores as fast as possible. Very orderly in jp in comparison.

Re:Are you armed?

[autocracy]

A Twin Otter is sent to medevac a fisherman from a Russian trawler to McMurdo. The victim of hammer blows by another crewmate, the incident perpetuates the hammer as the traditional weapon of choice for discerning Antarcticans who go apeshit.

http://www.bigdeadplace.com/state_of_the_station.html

Re:Are you armed?

[larry bagina]

<sarcasm>Yeah guns are really important, just look at all the japanese right now, without their guns they are really screwed. I see them respectfully/calmly queing for food and water, it would be much easier if they were all just shooting each other.</sarcasm>

dumb fucks... :-/

New Orleans much?

Re:Are you armed?

[coldfarnorth]

Nah. He figures he can find someone who has taken the time to be prepared and take their stuff.

Re:Are you armed?

[HornWumpus]

Have you ever been deer hunting?

They hide very well. Hunting is a skill. With no experience most people wouldn't even see one once the deer realize it's on and hide. You never see deer on the side of the road during hunting season as they are in the deep brush.

I live in CA, we have very few hunters. I can get 6 deer tags a year (4 muzzle loader) here because there a so many deer and so few hunters.

Re:Are you armed?

[Thetawaves]

How can you possibly think a bow and arrows will supply you with more shots for the equivalent volume. Even if you never restocked, 15 pounds of ammo would last you a long, long time. You can probably carry a maximum of 50 arrows on you, and that sounds like a massive pain in the ass! Good luck crafting your own arrows and actually hitting something with them! Or getting close enough to hit something with your crappy arrows. I'll stick to 20th century technology.

Good luck hunting birds without bird shot.

A bow and arrows is what you turn to when your 500 rounds of ammo has finally run out 3 years later.

Re:Are you armed?

[whoever57]

Anyone who thinks 'evacuation' from an urbanized area is possible in the US ought to watch rush hour in major cities a couple of times. If you live in an urban area and are serious about being prepared for some form of catastrophe, you need to be able to survive in place for at least a couple of weeks

Which is why my emergency preparedness involves boxes outside my house with food, clothing, tents, camping stoves, and water purification systems. Also in the boxes are a crank-powered radio and a large crowbar (to access my house, assuming it is damaged by an earthquake). I can live in my back yard for 2-3 weeks.

Re:Are you armed?

[Paracelcus]

Yes, I am, nuff said about that.

And if things get really, REALLY! bad, you know as the planet enters another geologically active phase and the Yellowstone caldera erupts, will you be willing to eat long pig? You know, kill a neighbor to feed your children?

By the way have you noticed the ever increasing frequency with which large seismic/volcanic/tectonic events are occurring? Hmmmm.

Re:Are you armed?

[DrgnDancer]

Really on a per capita basis there wasn't much looting in New Orleans either. Most of what there was was for food, and probably people would have paid had their been anyone in the shops to pay. What looting of luxury goods there was (and it's been to shown to have been exaggerated in the early media coverage) was almost entirely looted out of empty shops, and covered by insurance. There were no armed gangs wandering around stealing from survivors. There were a few assholes breaking windows of empty stores and picking up what they could carry.

OP is apparently envisioning himself as Mad Max or something. No major American city has been reduced to that in a hundred years, and frankly if one was it would indicated a total collapse of the internal infrastructure of the US, and a far more serious situation than a mere natural disaster. Even as badly as the government handled Katrina, it never got close to "Beyond Thunderdome".

Re:Are you armed?

[shentino]

Including from starvation.

Re:Are you armed?

[digitalhermit]

Long pig? If it came to that. I have a can of peaches and avocados as dessert.

Re:Are you armed?

[CodeBuster]

Some of us have tens or even hundreds of thousands of rounds stored and available for use or trade; enough to cover our own foreseeable lifetimes and probably those of our children as well. Brass can be reloaded, primers made and bullets cast and eventually armed and self-sufficient communities will form from the ruins of post fossil fuel civilization to support necessary industries. I'm not concerned about the supply of ammunition or guns running out. If these items can be made and maintained in primitive conditions in backwater villages in Pakistan, as they are today, then the same can be done by knowledgeable survivalists.

Re:Are you armed?

[misexistentialist]

Paranoid? It's about 1% of the weaponry that is stockpiled for each government agent to protect themselves during civil unrest. Hopefully that limits your individual exposure, but brutal home invasions are "disasters" that happen all the time, and something like an asteroid impact could indeed produce a survival scenario like the The Road , where you need a reason not to shoot at anything that moves. Finally, a weapon is quite useful for end of life planning. Normal events like epidemic and irradiation proceed quickly, and rescue is usually not very imminent.

Re:Are you armed?

[camperdave]

Using a gun takes a lot less skill than using a bow and arrow. Opt for the crossbow and get the best of both worlds.

Re:Are you armed?

[Anonymous Coward]

ahhh bullshit you stupid American bashing troll

Yeah because people were tearing each other apart during the San Francisco earthquake. Typical politcally correct person who doesn't wan to say it but I will, the African-American community cannot behave when things get bad and will not work together. Not saying all of them will do it, but a 'vast majority' will resort to violence and rioting.

Re:Are you armed?

[shutdown -p now]

1. Zombie attack.
2. Taliban paratroopers.
3. Annexation by DPRK.
4. FEMA death camps!
5. [many more]

Re:Are you armed?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, it couldn't have anything to do with culture, could it? The Japanese, for the most part, have a culture where you do what the authorities tell you to. If they tell you to wait in lines, you wait in lines, and as politely as possible. Heck, they don't even have to be told. You want to know the reason the Japs aren't running around looting shops, and why random citizens even go so far as to help 70 year old shop keepers clean up? Look at their culture. Even if they had the freedom to own weapons, it wouldn't change the culture.

Even if the looting Katrina thugs didn't have guns (and, most of them didn't), it doesn't change the fact that some minority of people chose to loot liquor stores, just because they could... It would have been forgivable, to me, if they looted because they needed the nutrition, but no, they went after all of the unnecessary things in life, like booze, and electronics, and everything else not bolted to the floor--because not only was there nobody there to stop them, they could not stop themselves!

Then, you have Brits. There's more of a rebel attitude amongst the younger generations. And, despite not having guns, there's also a prevalence of violence. Roving bands of thugs who beat people up, and for no good reason, robberies at knife or truncheon point--that sort of thing. So much so, that London has considered banning knives with sharp points. If only that would stop the bloodshed, but it will forever be the next potential weapon, and it will never come to going after the cultural issues. Furthermore, If & when some innocent person decides they're not going to be the victim of the day, the government takes a most peculiar stance: they'll probably hold the victim liable for any pain and suffering put upon the aggressor by violent retaliation, and to add insult to injury, they're just as likely to prosecute the victim with some arbitrary and arcane statute, as they are to prosecute the assailant for that particular crime--despite the victim having no record, and the assailant(s) having rap sheets miles long.

What's similar between these cultures? They're both island nations, they both have very stringent gun control laws, yet one has much less violence, on the whole, than the other? Why do you imagine that is?

If the government could be put out, you know, to actually go after and prosecute criminals instead of peaceful, law abiding citizens, we could both enjoy our freedom, and enjoy not having to worry about criminals. What would be wrong there? Oh, that's right, some people would still choose own relatively simple machines YOU don't think they should own. But, there's always *some* excuse for wanna-be authoritarian dickheads, isn't there?

Re:Are you armed?

[Solandri]

it's paranoid. What sort of disaster are you expecting wherein you would need those kinds of weapons? There aren't many realistic scenarios of that type.

It's not paranoid, it's foresight. You should always include weapons when planning for a disaster scenario. The passivity and politeness you're seeing in Japan is the rare exception. Without the rule of law, human society nearly always degenerates into thuggery and might makes right. You people who think you're so smart planning ahead with stocks of food and water, but pacifist so refuse to keep a weapon? If a major disaster struck, the rule of law became ineffective, and survival depended on that food and water, you would be set upon by hordes of people who didn't plan ahead wanting to forcibly take your food and water from you. And there's nothing you could do about it because you didn't pack any weapons.

Yeah your neighbor whom you've known for the last 10 years probably isn't going to steal from you - he knows you and empathizes with you. He's not the one you have to worry about. You want to worry about the guy who doesn't know you, tired, starving, and thirsty, with no empathy for you. If he finds out you have food and water, he's gonna have no qualms about doing anything he can to take it away from you. He's not gonna think "This guy prepared ahead, I didn't, so I deserve to die." He's gonna think "This guy has lots of supplies, I have none. He should share, but he refuses. So I'm justified in taking it from him."

Too often, people think that the purpose of a weapon is to kill. It can certainly be used for that, but that's not its primary purpose. Its primary purpose is to intimidate. Hundreds of criminals are apprehended every day because the criminal gives up when the policeman draws his weapon. Hundreds of people are mugged every day because the victim willingly gives up his money when threatened with a weapon. All of this happens without a single shot being fired, without a single knife blade contacting flesh. You probably won't even have to use the weapon you pack in your disaster kit - merely waving it around to show people you have it will be enough to get them to leave you alone.

Re:Are you armed?

[hedwards]

We don't have the Yakuza to help keep the order here. That's not to say that the Japanese are as disorderly as we are, but let's be honest, having organized crime figure out that widespread looting and such is bad for business goes a long way towards maintained civility. Even in the US during prohibition, the mob figured out pretty quickly how to make nice with the people when it was profitable to do so.

Re:Are you armed?

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Ahh, thank goodness for the simple pleasures of a vegetable garden.

Re:Are you armed?

[Fjandr]

Of course, it couldn't have anything to do with culture, could it?

Sadly, saying this is like shouting into a hurricane. Even more so, because it's the real root of the issue and most people are incapable of analyzing people and cultures to find the real cause to problems; they'd rather just demonize those they disagree with.

Owning firearms makes one more likely to be a criminal in exactly the same way being black makes one more likely to be a criminal. It's too bad the real meaning of the preceding sentence will be lost on so many, a great deal of whom will decide it means I think blacks are criminals because they're black. It's that old /. maxim "correlation does not equal causation," but let's not apply it to everything, just the things we like, but which have bad things that correlate to them. Anything else might as well be "correlation equals causation" for the average person trying to defend a strongly-held opinion.

Re:Are you armed?

[koona]

and even a coyote or 2 around my house.

This would strongly imply you would drink your own bathwater as well. Ever skin one of those buggers?

douglas

Re:Are you armed?

[Fjandr]

It's sad that there's so much hate on /.

Since you have admitted to possessing firearms, a good percentage of the population has written you off as a dangerous kook who should be watched for signs of gearing up to snap and go on a homicidal rampage. It's like they can't believe a sane, well-adjusted person can actually pragmatically look at a firearm and decide there are many situations a private citizen could potentially find themselves in where such a tool would be useful or essential.

What's really astounding is that many of these people are otherwise highly intelligent and pragmatic themselves, yet are incapable of surmounting this psychological hurdle.

Re:Are you armed?

[Hognoxious]

Guns evolved as weapons of war. I don't know what the fuck you'd go hunting with a culverin. In any case, most food production came from agriculture by the time muskets were invented, so your argument that people with guns ate more is plain wrong.

But anyway, HornWumpus claimed they were necessary. You've just claimed - and you might be right - that they make it easier. Still, to support his claim, you need to account for humanity's survival up to the 15th century. Go on, I'm all ears...

Now this analogy is aimed at the more cerebral members of the group rather than the "hurr durr, I's a-gottens me a gurrrn, you're a faggot" types, but it's like saying you absolutely can't code without an IDE.

Re:Are you armed?

[fuscus2010]

Pffft. Big earthquake and tsunami comes and fat Bubba runs around screaming, frothing at the mouth and preventing the emergency response teams from doing their jobs. All that would happen is that the army would call in a sniper or worse. At least the areas IQ would approve. While you still need to be prepared with food,water,medical stockpiles (at least two weeks), survival in these situations depend on planning, co-operation and team work. And for the record I live in Australia in an area where cyclones occur though I missed out on this years offerings.

Re:Are you armed?

[Urkki]

Katrina = massive natural disaster -> looting & roving gangs -> murder, assault -> need for way to protect self and family

LA riots = civil disorder ~ man made disaster -> looting & roving gangs -> murder, assault -> need for way to protect self and family

Mumbai style terrorist attack (same planed for Europe) ~ man made disaster -> roving terrorists -> murder, assault -> need for way to protect self and family

Is it just me, or does it sound like the correct way to protect self and family would be to get the hell out before something bad happens? In a situation like that, it's bad enough without gun-toting looters... And even though people in this thread boasting about guns probably don't think of themselves as thugs, they sure sound like they'd include forcibly sharing food of others (also known as robbery) in "self defence" or "hunting".

Re:Are you armed?

[Urkki]

Have you ever been deer hunting?

They hide very well. Hunting is a skill. With no experience most people wouldn't even see one once the deer realize it's on and hide. You never see deer on the side of the road during hunting season as they are in the deep brush.

That's for people hunting alone or in small group. It would be rather different if a larger community of people be doing it for food and survival. A bunch of chasers, and a few decent shooters with rifles waiting for whatever gets chased out of hiding.

Also, the funny thing about guns is, just about anybody will learn in a matter of hours to shoot a rifle well enough to hit even a small animal often enough...

All it takes is a person with authority and a person with relevant knowledge, and they don't even have to be the same person.

Re:Are you armed?

[HornWumpus]

Slow smoked, like a whole hog.

How much do you figure you will weigh by then? I guessing 20 hours in the smoker, about 100lbs dressed.

Re:Are you armed?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Bit of a silly response, don't you think?

That depends on which part of which country he lives in, which is something you should have asked him before jumping to this conclusion.

What you going to do, shoot the water as it swirls round your feet

If he lives in Southern Missouri, he'll never have water swirling around his feet. What he could have is a shortage of creature comforts like food being delivered to the grocery store. He'd be able to shoot animals for food.

When people seem crazy, try asking them questions . Chances are you just don't understand.

Re:Are you armed?

[dr2chase]

Squirrel's ok. Had moose, too, but never at the same time, so I missed my chance to say "Vee are haffink Moose and Skvirrel for dinner!".

But I've never cleaned game, so I'm a little unclear on that concept. After what the little squirrel f*ckers did to some fruit tree seedlings this winter (*), I could certainly see eating them, and I'm not sure I'd bet on a vegetable garden doing well unless I did.

(*) snow was 2-3 feet deep in the backyard for a long long time, could not find their acorns, so they gnawed on everything they could find.

Re:Are you armed?

[HornWumpus]

The Rubicon Trail is in the Sierra Nevada between South Lake Tahoe and Sacramento. Figure it out.

I assume you live in fantasy land if you are sure you will never need a weapon.

Re:Are you armed?

[HornWumpus]

Seems like what you like is large mags. The pistol is a backup for the rifle hence simple, foolproof etc.

These weapons are the ones that 'feel right' in my hands. They almost aim themselves.

It would take a serous crisis for me to return to my youthful pyromania, I still remember a thing or two. Enough to know bad advice on the net when I see it. Why don't you slam some hydrazine right into your carotid artery with a big bore needle. I hear that's one hell of a buzz.

Re:Are you armed?

[bertoelcon]

Ever cleaned game? Wildlife around urban areas tend to be freaking nasty. Mangy, diseased, bony... Not a lot of deer around my city

PROTIP: Don't live in the city.

Re:Are you armed?

[Anonymous Coward]

Three days after the grocery stores are empty and the police have gone home to watch over thier families.

Re:Are you armed?

[Penguinisto]

No, people with guns ate more. There are good reasons for that.

...chief among them being that people with guns (let's call them "armies") were able to subjugate and dominate those without guns (we'll call them "peasants"), taking their goods (like food, for instance).

Like sibling said - guns evolved as weapons of war. It wasn't until accuracy actually got half-assed decent (roughly the 17th century, or about 100-200 years after armies have been using them) that hunting with a gun made any sense at all.

While we're on the subject, one thing to note among the gun-toting crowd... you can reload, you can even (maybe) re-pour bullets, but eventually you're going to run out of powder and primers (unless of course you have a degree in chemistry, or a flintlock muzzle-loader and enough know-how to make powder old-school). There's a vast difference between gunpowder you can actually *make* from locally-had ingredients (if you know how), and the chemical concoctions that you buy at the local gun shop.

May want to brush up on the ol' bow-hunting skills, yanno?

Re:Are you armed?

[couchslug]

Most radiation exposure has been modest enough to avoid, including above-ground nuclear detonations in the US.

"We'll also assume you have some non-meat food sources too and won't get a protein overdose related psychosis."

Native Americans often lived on bison meat for extended periods of time. Got evidence for that theory?

Re:Are you armed?

[couchslug]

"But don't think for a minute that there will be lots of game waiting for your bullets."

If I'm risking starvation, people are "game" or at least potential food for my chickens.

In a truly desperate sustained situation, all civilized rules may be dispensed with.

Re:Are you armed?

[couchslug]

Bad, bad man!

You should renounce all that evil equipment and give it to me.

Re:Are you armed?

[jkinney3]

the bullets are for thinning out the competition for food.

Re:Are you armed?

[phantomfive]

In California home invasion isn't really a reason to own a gun, mainly because of all the laws about storage and preventing you from using the gun. You would have to be really lucky to get to the gun and put it in a usable state in time to defend yourself with it. That's why I just have a giant machete.

Re:Are you armed?

[digitalhermit]

Think of cleaning a fish.. You have to get in there, clean out the guts, get rid of the scales, pull out everything but the meat.

Wild game is like that, except that you can't get the nasty stuff from the intestines on the meat. So you have to be very careful with your knife when you skin it so you don't puncture the intestines or the bladder. Doing so will ruin the meat. Fish is one thing. Mammal parasites and diseases are another. And mammal feces are generally poisonous to other mammals. For larger animals you need to bleed it. This means hanging it up, nicking an artery, and let it bleed out. If you don't then the meat will taste horrid, not to mention a host of blood-borne parasites that can play nasty with your body. I've done it for a goat and deer. Believe me, it's not for the squeamish.

If it came down to it, my choices would be fishing first then go after birds. Geese and ducks first. If it came down to it, seagulls. I don't know if I could eat a pigeon again :/. Once was enough.

Re:Are you armed?

[JDevers]

The current population of the state in which I live is about 2.8 million people. There are an estimated 1.2 million deer in the state, we occupy the vast majority of the Mississippi flyway for ducks, there is a large quail population, over half of the state is hardwood infested with squirrel and human edible nuts, and multiple rivers cross the state with large impound lakes filled with white and striped bass to catfish and multiple cold water trout rivers and streams. A large percentage of our farm land is currently cash crops such as cotton, but quick re-tooling will add to the 1.3 million acres already geared towards rice, 230,000 to corn, 3.1 million acres of soybeans, 370,000 to wheat, and 66,000 to sorghum. We have the largest poultry industry in the US, we will do just fine as long as the rest of you fuckers stay out.

Oh, and gun ownership is one of the highest in the US.

Re:Are you armed?

[slackbheep]

This is the internet my friend. My personal plan involves wandering off to find a pack of wolves, I will fight and defeat their leader and earn my place in the pack.

Re:Are you armed?

[Nyder]

Ever cleaned game? Wildlife around urban areas tend to be freaking nasty. Mangy, diseased, bony... Not a lot of deer around my city. Not a lot of wild boar either. So you may end up eating rats and bugs. Make sure that you don't puncture the rat intestine and spill rat feces all over that delectable rat meat when you're cleaning that rat. And rats, though they may grow to be large, are still rats and not much more meat than a single drumstick.

Say all you want about a can of pork and beans or tuna, but I'd much rather eat that than a squirrel. And yes, I've eaten rabbit, deer, wild hog, and snake before... I've never eaten rat though.

I'm considering human myself. heard they taste sort of sweet, like horse.

Re:Are you armed?

[Nyder]

How many ducks and deer do you think there *are*? If there was an actual disaster, the deer, duck, quail, and lizard populations would plummet as a teaming horde of well-armed people suddenly ravage the landscape.

We moved to an agricultural society so that we wouldn't have to try to eke out our existence on the little tidbits provided by nature. Wanna prepare? Fine. But don't think for a minute that there will be lots of game waiting for your bullets.

Guns are for self-defense.

Um, maybe you missed out on those animal shows, but it seems animals have a 6th sense for natural diasters and tend to start taking off before they happen. So, if the animals taking off clues you in, and you save your ass from whatever happens, ya, that gun will be useful for hunting later. Well, not useful for you, because you'll probably be dead when all the animals run over your ass because you were too stupid to understand what was going on.

Re:Are you armed?

[JDevers]

There was looting, rape, and murder out the wazoo in Haiti well before the most recent natural disaster.

Re:Are you armed?

[couchslug]

New Orleans called, to remind you the US isn't Japan.

Re:Are you armed?

[couchslug]

Japan is ethnically homogeneous and has policies to keep it that way.

Americans have nothing in common but location, we aren't a melting pot, and are thus prone to tribal warfare.

Re:Are you armed?

[penix1]

The problem with this strategy is in an earthquake what makes you think your back yard will still be accessible and safe enough for you to live there for two weeks? And when that 2 weeks turns into 2 months because State and Federal agencies can't respond due to their own poor planning? What then?

Communities are required to do disaster planning involving public input. They have public meetings every year or two on it. Attend those meetings and let your opinions be heard. Every time I have to give them, I'm amazed when one person shows up. Planning meetings are dull but without knowing what the public thinks, they are exercises in futility.

Re:Are you armed?

[metlin]

Some of us just have just learnt to run really fast, by running practice marathons.

Re:Are you armed?

[hamster_nz]

All that firepower would have proved very useful when I was crapping in hole in the back yard...

Re:Are you armed?

[Sumtingwong]

Don't you have to drive to those in the UK?

Re:Are you armed?

[evil_aar0n]

I'll second this. Last week, I think it was some flooding in downtown Sleepy Hollow, but it took literally over an hour to go the maybe six miles from the west bank of the Hudson, across the TZ (Tappan Zee Bridge), to my work location. It was horrible. I can't imagine what it would be like if there were something more serious. People trying to get out of the metro NYC area would be fucked.

Re:Are you armed?

[Goghit]

I don't live in a country where I will need a "weapon". I strongly suspect we won't be shooting each other in the face while looting following a disaster.

What I have I will share.

p.s.: I do have a couple of "firearms". Bambis are good food. I'm assuming bag limits and hunting seasons will be suspended for a time.

Re:Are you armed?

[pastorhack]

Trick question, bullets would make pampers useless, for that you want to use a standard diaper trap.

Re:Are you armed?

[ukemike]

OP talks about preparing for a natural disaster What you going to do, shoot the water as it swirls round your feet

No, I think he plans on using his guns to steal my emergency kit. The joke's on him though. All the food and water in there expired last year.

Re:Are you armed?

[rtb61]

Seriously both of you are nuts. You want to be prepared, seriously truly prepared. Then move to location that does not suffer major earthquakes, hurricanes or typhoons, tornadoes or floods. Once you move there establish good relations with your neighbours and, support local and regional emergency services.

All the guns in the world and all the emergency rations you can pile up, do you not one scrap of good when you slip and break you leg and no one comes to help.

Realistic emergency preparedness is a community thing not an individual thing. When you and your guns are buried under rubble who do you expect to dig you out. When you with your guns are clinging to a tree in a flood who is going to come with a boat to rescue you. When you and your guns are broken after being flung about by a horrendous storm who will search for and rescue you.

If you think you can prepare for emergencies on your own, than you are a bloody idiot. Forcing the community, the government to ensure it is capable of dealing with emergencies is the only way of increasing your odds of survival. Statistic for deaths between countries that prepare for emergencies and those that don't are tens, hundreds, even thousands to one.

Re:Are you armed?

[MartinSchou]

A bow and arrows is what you turn to when your 500 rounds of ammo has finally run out 3 years later.

You seriously expect that you could go 3 years while hunting for food and defending yourself, and only use one round of ammo every other day when the apocalypse strikes?

Re:Are you armed?

[jonbryce]

And poor planning isn't the only problem. The State and Federal agencies will suffer damage too and will need to recover themselves first before they can recover anyone else.

Re:Are you armed?

[Cimexus]

a large crowbar

Oh then you'll definitely be OK. Gordon Freeman would be proud. :)

Re:Are you armed?

[sexistentialist]

Any urban environment is 9 meals away from anarchy (credit to Kevin Reeve, OnPoint Tactical). After three days with no food, you will find that civil order goes right out the window. People will form groups because a group is more effective. Those groups will take up arms because a group with weapons is more effective. Those groups will take what they want, and they will kill you without thinking twice if they believe that killing you will keep them alive. By the same token, killing them might keep you alive if they're coming for your a) food b) shelter c) family.

Man is not civilized. We have the veneer of culture and civilization, but it is tenuous. Without power you will quickly lose food and sanitation, and after 3 days of that you'll see how civilized man is. The concept is difficult to embrace - we all want our neighbors to be reasonable. We want ourselves to be reasonable. However, if you are unwilling to look at the avenue of anarchy as one of the scenarios for which you should prepare, then you will find yourself unprepared if those whom you hope are civilized in the face of death turn out to be something else.

There are two types of disaster for which one should prepare - short-term (up to two weeks) and long-term (one to six months). Anything longer than six months will likely result in a huge change as you adapt to your new life, so planning to "weather" that disaster type may be more difficult than planning to adapt to it permanently (think post-nuclear, health epidemic, other massive destruction on a global scale). A short-term disaster can be weathered in your home with adequate food, water, and security. There are specific skills you can learn that will make survival in an urban environment easier (again, see OnPoint link above), and if you have to escape the city, those skills are even more valuable. Once outside of the city, wilderness survival skills will be a necessity. A long-term disaster is one where civil order breaks down and your survival becomes paramount. For this you should have plans that include evacuation routes (don't take the freeway or you'll find yourself sitting there days later without fuel in your car), food/supply caches along those routes, and a plan for long-term survival in a location where you will be safe.

It is unfortunate, but those who are not able to protect themselves and their families will likely die. Protect doesn't mean only with weapons in the event of an attack. Protect means "find food when your local grocery is empty." Protect means "find shelter that will keep us warm in winter if there is no heating oil." Protect means "understand basic medical treatment" and "maintain calm in a situation of terrible stress." If you have not prepared for a disaster, then when the disaster strikes, what's your plan? To go to the shelter and wait for the government? Those in New Orleans who went to the Superdome found themselves the victims of gangs of thugs and rapists demanding payments for using the toilets. I'll leave discussion of the type of payments accepted as an exercise for the reader.

Japan is an interesting case because civil order has been maintained. I don't know the reason behind this - maybe it's cultural. Maybe it's the respect they have for one another. Maybe it's because there is no food for anyone to take because everything was wiped out. People are leaving the areas of destruction and going to other cities where they have family, so perhaps the local suffering is manageable. Japan's disaster response from the government also appears to have been well-executed. This post-disaster stability is the exception. It is not the norm. If your community handles its disasters with the same calm, then you are fortunate.

Unless you plan to not be a victim, then you will find yourself exactly where you planned to be.

To answer the OP's question, I currently live in Kraków, Poland and go back and forth between Kraków and New York. My wife and

Re:Are you armed?

[east coast]

People who think guns are either a problem or a solution are primitive. That includes you.

Re:Are you armed?

[drinkypoo]

In California home invasion isn't really a reason to own a gun, mainly because of all the laws about storage and preventing you from using the gun.

You mean how a gun can be loaded or unlocked but not both? Is it really that hard to have both gun and key where you can get to them?

I agree about the machete though. I have sticks, because I'll live longer if I happen to lose the stick and it's used against me than if I lose one of my big knives and have it used against me.

Re:Are you armed?

[drinkypoo]

Realistic emergency preparedness is a community thing not an individual thing. When you and your guns are buried under rubble who do you expect to dig you out. When you with your guns are clinging to a tree in a flood who is going to come with a boat to rescue you. When you and your guns are broken after being flung about by a horrendous storm who will search for and rescue you.

Amen! My lady and I are currently seeking a more sustainable lifestyle for this and other reasons. We're currently deciding which wilderness EMT course to take because those are the skills we think will be most useful in the times immediately to come. And if everything turns out rosy, they're still fantastic skills in much demand that will be useful throughout the rest of our lives. I've been involved in butchering a deer but I've never done the whole process by myself. My cooking skills have come up immensely to the point where I can make boring ingredients taste good. There's always more to learn but having genuinely useful skills makes you genuinely more valuable.

Re:Are you armed?

[phantomfive]

Japan is an interesting case because civil order has been maintained. I don't know the reason behind this - maybe it's cultural. Maybe it's the respect they have for one another.

That happens more often than not in disasters. At least, outside of Hollywood.

Re:Are you armed?

[phantomfive]

Ya, it's not like home invaders are going to wait for you to find your gun. You have to be able to get to it and put it in a usable state quickly. Maybe some people are faster at that than I am.

Ironically the only use I've ever actually had for my machete is to cut the lawn when I lived in a third world country. Meh.

Re:Are you armed?

[shomon2]

Yeah but you can get lots of urban vegetation though - dandelion is a good emergency foodstuff, you can eat the leaves, make the flowers into tea, and the roots can be fried with soya sauce... :)

Cities frequently have fruit trees growing all over the place, even on abandoned places by the side of the road because someone threw an apple core in the 70s and it grew...

In Bristol, UK there is a map of all edible fruit and nut trees and guides you can buy with all the different species of local plants and how to prepare them or use them medically.

Re:Are you armed?

[Thetawaves]

I think you are under the impression that it takes more than 1 bullet to kill something.

Re:Are you armed?

[HornWumpus]

So the answer is no you have never been hunting.

Hunting is not only about shooting. FYI they use the drive the deer method in a few eastern states. Deer will go to ground and you will walk by them 2 yards away, never knowing they are there.

Re:Are you armed?

[HornWumpus]

Doubt it about the dog. Deer are fast and alert. Dog was likely dragging home road kill.

Also doubt you saw many deer in the open during periods it was legal to shoot them. CA deer in urban and suburban environments have lost much of their fear of humans. That would change if they were being hunted year round.

Re:Are you armed?

[Urkki]

So the answer is no you have never been hunting.

It's fun to think being in some kind of an elite group... You fail to grasp the situation we're talking about here. I wouldn't need to know much about hunting to take part in organized hunting for food. Just being present, able to work as a part of a group, and able to walk in the nature would be enough. Factor current population density into the situation, and you'll have wild game getting really scarce really fast.

Hunting is not only about shooting. FYI they use the drive the deer method in a few eastern states. Deer will go to ground and you will walk by them 2 yards away, never knowing they are there.

Why don't they use dogs in those few eastern states? It doesn't take much of a dog to sniff out anything the size of a deer, and I wager it takes quite a deer to stay still with a dog barking 2 yards away.

Re:Are you armed?

[rrohbeck]

I didn't say that guns are a problem or a solution.
I only uttered an opinion about people who think they need guns.
Civilized countries (like Japan and most other advanced nations) have special organizations for that. They're usually called "cops" or "soldiers."

Re:Are you armed?

[YoshiDan]

Exactly. I don't believe we had those issues in the recent floods in QLD Australia (which was a really major disaster that wiped out whole towns). Well at least not badly anyway. A friend up there did tell me there were some small fights in some shops over things like bread but I think that's about as bad as it got... No need to defend against insane people wielding guns...

Re:Are you armed?

[MartinSchou]

I am under the impression that it takes more than one shot to hit something if you aren't an expert marksman.

I am under the impression that if you are defending your family during the apocalypse, it'll take more than kill shots to fend off aggressors.

Re:Are you armed?

[fantazem]

Very well said and right on target. It's seems kind of strange too when you consider it really wasn't that long ago that having a gun or two in the house was not only common place, but carried no social stigma at all. On topic, it seems very simple to me - you need to survive. Survival is two basic parts, sustenance and self defense/protection. Have food and water (and a way to procure more) and a way to defend yourself from the elements and predators. The things you need to satisfy those two basic requirements seem pretty obvious.

Re:Are you armed?

[mrchaotica]

No, people with guns ate more. There are good reasons for that.

...chief among them being that people with guns (let's call them "armies") were able to subjugate and dominate those without guns (we'll call them "peasants"), taking their goods (like food, for instance).

Indeed. So the real question is, if such a disaster occurred, would you rather be in the army, or a peasant?

Re:Are you armed?

[HornWumpus]

Try it before a crisis hits. You will learn a lot.

Re:Are you armed?

[east coast]

Dance around the issue all you want but it doesn't hold any water with me. I see you as limited and outdated by your inability to deal with the subject at hand.

Re:Are you armed?

[cold fjord]

Japan Tsunami = massive natural disaster - GUN TOTING POPULATION -> no looting & roving gangs -> no murder, assault -> no need for way to "protect" self and family

Thai Tsunami = massive natural disaster - GUN TOTING POPULATION -> no looting & roving gangs -> no murder, assault -> no need for way to "protect" self and family

See a pattern here?

Yes, I do see a pattern - you either don't know what you are talking about or are making things up.

There was looting in Thailand after the 2004 Tsunami (and after their recent unrest), and in Japan now.

Thailand 2004: Thai looters cash in on tsunami destruction
Thailand 2010: Thai forces to fire on looters and arsonists
Japan 2011: Japan earthquake: Looting reported by desperate survivors

Now, is it firearms that causes people to form mobs with ill intent? Apparently not as they will form with makeshift weapons:

Recently in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, dozens of men, armed with machetes and make-shift weapons, broke into and looted stores along the capital's main commercial street. Natural Disasters in Chile and Haiti the Psychology of Looting

And what of Sweden, who lost a number of citizens in the 2004 disaster in Thailand?

Even famously law-abiding Sweden and Norway have been hit by scammers who have robbed and looted the homes of tourists who vanished in the chaos.

"It is, unfortunately, a reality that people who are known to be missing . . . have had their homes gone through and partly emptied," Swedish State Secretary Lars Danielsson said.......

Fearing an outbreak of looting akin to what occurred after the 1994 sinking of the ferryboat Estonia that killed 551 Swedes, police refused to release the names of the dead and missing. Somehow, though, the names got out, and now police are standing watch over hundreds of homes scattered across the country. Gangs pillage tsunami villages, stealing corpses & selling orphans

And more of the same: Robbery, rape and kidnap

Sri Lanka Churches Worried about Looting in Tsunami-hit Areas

Referring to the looters, the Sri Lanka church council said: "We appeal to them to kindly desist from such dastardly conduct and join with the several who are helping those in need," as it urged more church volunteers and others to join in the relief work.

The criticism came after reports that thugs were looting homes of some tsunami victims and rapists were preying on homeless survivors.

"We have received reports of incidents of rape, gang rape, molestation and physical abuse of women and girls in the course of unsupervised rescue operations," the Women and Media Collective group in Sri Lanka was quoted saying by the Reuters news agency.

But don't only bad people have guns? No. For example, Dr. Martin Luther King owned guns for protection.

I also suggest that you become clear on this point: Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone . This has been the law for quite some time.

You can't necessarily count on the police:

Re:Are you armed?

[cheeseflan]

I just love picturing the traffic jam as thousands of modified pick-ups and SUVs all try to take the same trails.

Re:Are you armed?

[Urkki]

Try it before a crisis hits. You will learn a lot.

I'd say I'm covered about hunting thanks to relatives. And anyway, where I live, fishing sounds like *far* more reliable and productive (calories gained per calories spent) way to get extra protein to the table.

But hint to anybody preparing for the worst: stock up on sturdy fishing line and hooks, and especially fishing nets. And store line and nets in air-tight bags and carefully protected for UV-radiation, so it won't start to deteriorate and will last for decades in storage. These are two things you can't easily make, and whatever you can make will be far far inferior to current regular industrial products.

Squid!

[MrQuacker]

I just checked my cupboards to see what I have.

There are about a dozen cans of squid, that I have no idea where they came from.

Re:Squid!

[ilikejam]

Cthulhu waits.
In the cans.
In your cupboard.

Re:Squid!

[Anonymous Coward]

Good point. I hadn't considered the possibility of an alien invasion from your cupboard. Please let us know if the number of cans of "squid" increase. Oh, and you may want to invest in a crowbar.

Re:Squid!

[sincewhen]

They were probably the only thing left uneaten after the last disaster...

I'm Prepared

[Ganty]

OK, so I'm living on the outskirts of an Eastern European city but I've still made some preparations:

Backups of all data held off-site
Fully charged laptop battery always available (I rotate them)
Passport and all essential documents all kept in one safe place
Working torch where I can find it
Box of tinned food and 25 Liters of water in the basement along with a torch and tent
Cellphone always kept charged and a spare SIM in case our local carrier goes titsup

Five minutes warning of the big one and I can be out of here.

Ganty

Re:I'm Prepared

[ColdWetDog]

Nice start. The rest of us would ask you to bring a few changes of underwear.

Meh

[Greyfox]

The biggest problems we seem to run into where I live seem to be the occasional short power outage and the very occasional big blizzard. I've been thinking of putting a LP/Natural Gas backup generator in, they're reasonably priced and it'd be nice if we ever see another huge outage like we did a few years back. Other than that I try to keep a week or so worth of food in the house in the winter time in case we get snowed in. There's a grocery store within walking distance though, so I could always pop 'round there if I needed to.

If I lived someplace earthqake/hurricane prone I'd have plans for those things. When I was living down in Florida, I had an obscure route mapped out that'd take me out of the state without having to get on the Interstate. My company asked me to bring some backup tapes to my house, which was several miles inland, one time when Andrew rolled through.

Re:Meh

[dr2chase]

One hopes you checked elevations on that route out of FL (says the guy who grew up there). Some places (e.g., Pinellas County) have got precious few roads out, and most of them are vulnerable to high water (4 bridges, + 19, 582, 580).

Generally, I just be sure I know how to use the water heater as a water supply, plus we keep a fair amount of food in inventory, plus we have a wood stove, plus wood. House is on high enough ground that if that volcano in the Canary Islands slid, we'd be ok. If I had to get somewhere, I would take a bicycle -- runs on peanut butter, sugar, and vegetable oil, not impeded by traffic jams, can carry it over/around obstacles, and all the bubbas think it's just a toy so they'll ignore it.

Tips from the hurricane prone

[Anonymous Coward]

Buy freeze dried foods you only have to replace them every 20 years. Buy a bicycle. Buy a generator and have your house wired to take direct plug in from it to run your freezer. Stockpile water and gasoline. $1000 investment can buy you 3-4 months of self reliant comfort

Re:Tips from the hurricane prone

[Gordonjcp]

Stockpile water and gasoline

Petrol goes stale. Don't stockpile it. Ditch the wheezy underpowered unreliable petrol engines, and get a diesel car and a diesel genny.

Re:Tips from the hurricane prone

[hamster_nz]

Diesel goes stale too - bacteria can live in it an gunge up fuel filters.

We only keep enough in the generators at work to run for a couple of hours, and test the generators weekly to help move it on.

Re:Tips from the hurricane prone

[bakes]

The correct answer is: stockpile fuel if you feel you must, but keep rotating it into your car fuel tank and refilling the cans.

Good point about diesel though. In a pinch you can also run the engine on vege oils lying about in the shops.

Re:Tips from the hurricane prone

[linuxpyro]

Actually, I would say that for power some sort of setup with a rechargeable battery would be good to have, maybe with a few solar panels for charging. It's not that expensive or difficult to put together a system that will run some lights and other things. Having a ham radio handy would be good too.

But having a generator in addition to that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Fairly well prepared.

[Nidi62]

Got some food that will last a while. My house has a creek that runs behind it and plenty of wood, so we can start a fire and boil water. When the food we have runs out, I have a hunting rifle with almost a full box of ammo, a shotgun with plenty of bird shot, and a handgun(more of use against unwelcome bipedal creatures than for hunting), so I can kill plenty of critters for food. And this is suburban Atlanta. Really, in an emergency situation, I could care less about data and all that. My biggest concern is feeding and protecting my family. It's pointless to make sure your pictures and tax records survive an emergency if you don't.

Re:Fairly well prepared.

[technomom]

Of course during a nuke event, you wouldn't want to be shooting at anything that's been eating from the surrounding areas. Those MREs and canned foods will probably do you more good then.

Re:Fairly well prepared.

[HornWumpus]

Depends or the details.

There has not yet been a 'nuke event' where that would be generally true.

Re:Fairly well prepared.

[PhilHibbs]

I wouldn't want to eat any of the wildlife around Chernobyl. Even here in the UK, I think we had to cull a load of sheep that had eaten contaminated grass after the Chernobyl meltdown. But I don't think that USian nuclear reactors are prone to the kind of problem that Chernobyl had.

Re:Fairly well prepared.

[Wyatt Earp]

If its between living now and dying 20-40 years later from cancer, I'd shoot a pig that'd grazed right next to the concrete coffin of Chernobyl.

Re:Fairly well prepared.

[IcyWolfy]

The EU Regulatations still have bans on animals and vegetables grown in Germany, UK, Spain, France, and most of Europe. The quarantine range has been reduced since the 80s, but it's still in place, and will probably be for many years to come.

All sheep in parts of Britain still need to be tested for radiation before they're allowed to enter the food-chain.
Wild Boar in Germany for the most part still can't be safely consumed.

Re:Fairly well prepared.

[technomom]

An lot of the deaths from Chernobyl came from people who were eating and drinking the food taken from cattle grazing in the area. They didn't take 20-40 years to die. But go ahead, chow down on that radioactive bambi. I'll stick with the canned spam until I'm out of range a bit.

Re:Fairly well prepared.

[technomom]

I live near New York, so I'm assuming that it wouldn't be a nuclear reactor accident (although we do have Indian Point here....) but more an intentional bombing. In that case, I would think things on the ground would be pretty well irradiated. So I'll take my gun AND my can opener.

Re:Fairly well prepared.

[rrohbeck]

Your neighbor might have an assault rifle. You lose.

Go bags are good start

[swm]

Jump kits (Go bags)
You put 'em by the door for when you have to rock'n'roll.
http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/emerg_kit.htm

Re:Go bags are good start

[Nutria]

• plastic "totes" (especially the rectangular stackable ones),
  
• Canned food (Hungry Man soups are quite effective and tasty, but a bit salty),
  
• cutlery/utensils,
• gallon jugs of chlorine bleach,
• 5 gallon carboys of water,
• jerrycans of gasoline,
• important papers/photographs/etc,
• external backup of HDD.

When Katrina was still in the southern Gulf, I knew that it was going to hit N.O., and so we started preparing. At the last practical minute we headed north.

Gas stove and water heater are also darned useful if you're going to stay (as in a blizzard).

Re:Go bags are good start

[starless]

The red cross is also a useful resource. Both for training, and for purchasing things like "go bags" and first aid kits:
http://www.redcrossstore.org/shopper/prodlist.aspx?LocationId=107

If you have a CERT in your area, that is another useful resource.
http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/

Re:Go bags are good start

[Anonymous Coward]

Be wary of Backpack Fever

Much better to shelter in place and be prepared to live where you are. The notion of fleeing to the hills is common, but foolish.

Re:Go bags are good start

[tophermeyer]

This is hugely insightful.

I live in a fairly well protected urban area in the northeast US. The biggest threat I face is a blizzard locking down the city. Therefore I'm really only concerned with sheltering in place. If I ever need to evacuate I'll need to do it by vehicle anyway, so I'm not too worried about backpack survival.

Though if I live in an area that is face with earthquakes and/or wildfires I expect I would want to have a go bag ready.

Re:Go bags are good start

[hamster_nz]

If you are in an earthquake, hurricane, eruption, ice storm , whatever and when there is no electricity, the supermarkets are closed, fuel is in short supply, and the roads are all closed at the first bridge, where exactly are you going to go?

You might as well just sit round with the neighbours and cook whatever is defrosting in the freezer on the camp stove or BBQ. You have far more resources at home then parked up at a roadend somewhere. If you stay you can also look after your property and help out others less able to cope than you are...

The majority of natural disasters don't require large scale evacuations of most people, and if you do have to flee from pending doom what you should take will completely different to what you think. You will want to take passports, insurance documents, medicines, photos, backup hard disk and not usual four tins of baked beans a fishing rod.

Another good thing is to have a decent first aid kit in a Pelican case and I keep it in the car. I haven't used it kayaking, but the first time I used it was at a funeral (somebody gashed their leg open on a chair), then when I had a nasty accident when running, and I had it with me during the recent earthquake. Oh, and a decent head torch or Maglite is a must too.

Re:Go bags are good start

[riverat1]

Get an LED headlight and/or flashlight. The batteries last far longer than with incandescent bulbs.

Preparation is in the mind

[Okian Warrior]

The best preparations are knowledge and experience.

Learn to camp. Join the Boy Scouts or similar when growing up. Learn to fish. Learn to hunt. Go on hikes. Take a first aid course.

Learn to be calm in the face of a completely unfamiliar situation.

You can't really plan for an unexpected event, but you can train yourself to react rationally in unfamiliar circumstances. Having a tendency to improvise a solution will get you much further in an emergency than any preparation for a specific circumstance.

Re:Preparation is in the mind

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't agree more. Although a machete for slashing up zombies never hurts.

Re:Preparation is in the mind

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes on all of those.

Plus: Learn to ride a bike.

A bicycle can get you places a car can't go and can get you farther in a shorter period of time than hiking can.

Re:Preparation is in the mind

[radionerd]

Exactly. Thinking about disasters is the first step in dealing with them. What's important? How do you establish contact with the rest of your family? How do you get home? Will you have food? Will you have water?Do you need electricity? Will you freeze in the cold? Do you need medication to stay alive? In our case, in Northwestern Oregon, we have a plan for all of this, we are expecting the "big one" anytime after right now. You will not be able to depend on any public infrastructure, don't bet on any telephone working for a few days, and plan on it being dark at night. Our family has a plan to contact each other using ham radio, and our home has backup power with enough diesel to last at least a week. With power, we can run our well, water is good! If I'm at work, I'll drive toward home as far as I can, and then walk, it's only 16 miles from work to home. We are armed, competent and willing to kill to defend our selves...... Better living through ham radio, "Radio" was the first merit badge I got. Knowing about radio, and industrial equipment in general has served me well all my life. The things you know will save you..... learn about radio, learn to weld, learn to work on engines, learn to fly, learn to scuba dive, build model rockets, learn about shooting, learn about horses, learn to run a chainsaw, learn every thing you can..... every geek skill you can get will help you to learn to think in a disaster.

Re:Preparation is in the mind

[HornWumpus]

Staged transportation.

For me that's a capable 4x4 truck with a bicycle in the back and a pair of comfortable hiking boots. Camping kits that gracefully degrade. All the real important stuff is in the backpack.

Like you say I'm in the Sierra Nevada every chance I get anyhow.

Re:Preparation is in the mind

[prefec2]

Sounds like my job ;-)

Re:Preparation is in the mind

[Macman408]

Like most Americans, I plan on waiting until disaster strikes, then I'll just order whatever I need via Amazon Prime. ;-)

OK, OK, kidding. I'm an Eagle Scout, so I have at least marginal skills in survival, first aid, basketweaving, etc. And I'm a member of my company's Emergency Response Team, which also nets me periodic training (though not survival - more the sort of training that's useful in the 10 minutes from when you call 911 until the EMTs/firemen/police arrive - except they're so close to our office that they often make it to an emergency scene before I do). I have a supply of water and food, as well as camping gear that would be useful for filtering more water, cooking food, etc. And if the need arises to GTFO, and I can't wait for the traffic jam to die down, I'm prepared to bicycle, since it'll probably be faster.

Re:Preparation is in the mind

[Sitnalta]

Having lived through a major disaster (wildfire) I can safely say that you are 100% right. Having a stocked-up pantry with non-perishable foods is smart, but not going to be very useful if your house is destroyed or inaccessible.

The only things I'd say that are absolutely indispensable are knowing first aide and CPR. They're such simple things to learn yet can mean the difference between life and death.

Beyond that, here's a list of things I found useful when I had my natural disaster hullabaloo:

1) LED Flashlight. That $2 impulse buy at checkout may be the smartest investment you ever made.
2) If you can afford a smartphone/PDA, then have one. They can be invaluable for getting information.
3) Don't be afraid to ask for help. This seems obvious but people's pride can get in the way. Being a victim is very humbling.
4) Have ID on you at all times with your CURRENT ADDRESS. This will save you from so much bullshit you have no idea. It can expedite getting financial aide from Red Cross or get you past emergency crew blockades.

Re:Preparation is in the mind

[sznupi]

Staged is worth trying also in "daily" transportation - keeping almost always a folding bike in the trunk of a car is easy (also in something like Skoda Fabia kombi, a supermini; which BTW can also easily traverse most unpaved & forest roads, at least of the kind near my place (well, Sudeten aren't exactly Sierra Nevada... ;> ); it's also helluva more fuel efficient than any 4x4 I toyed with, especially given its SDI-engined flavor - considering how searching for fuel always brings trouble in zombie apocalypse movies... )

And it's often very handy (nvm healthy or "green") - sort of a personal spoke-hub model of transportation.

PS. And compact food supplies. It's good to have a month supply of chocolate at all times. I love chocolate.

Re:Preparation is in the mind

[sznupi]

2) But have something basic and dependable, with good reception and ridiculously long standby times (even then, don't waste battery life on talking; SMS can cover most communication needs / won't overwhelm the network; and anyway, lots of such phones can run Opera Mini to get info, j2me IM or FB app to contact friends, etc.). Even better, low-end Nokia phones typically cover 1) LED flashlight.

As a pet owner...

[GrumblyStuff]

I do believe my cat would make a fine hat for warmth and I have plenty of nutritious (if fishy) wet and dry food available. Fortunately, just about the only thing I face would be a burly earthquake and hordes of dumbshit Seattleites panicking if the last 3-4 inches of snow we had is any indication.

Re:As a pet owner...

[CheeseTroll]

"my cat would make a fine hat for warmth"

your cat can knit?

Re:As a pet owner...

[GrumblyStuff]

Nah, I'd just make a turban sort of thing with a towel if it was cold and put the cat on top if it was near freezing or below.

Re:As a pet owner...

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

If you're in Seattle, you get to worry about the unmapped faults all over the place, and a subduction zone earthquake. At higher frequency, once or twice a decade there's a winter windstorm that knocks out power for days.

Re:As a pet owner...

[Anonymous Coward]

"my cat would make a fine hat for warmth"

your cat can knit?

My cat coughs up felt samples all the time. does that count?
I suppose you could assemble it into a hat, although I doubt if we will ever see "hairball chic" as a fashion.

Re:As a pet owner...

[Dan541]

Pets like Dogs and Cats are good because cats can take care of themselves until you need to eat them and if you're on the move a dog has it's own legs for transport, it's like a meal that follows you around.

Have someplace to go

[heptapod]

Bug out bags are nice but having a place to wait out a dangerous situation is ideal. BOBs aren't a panacea to surviving a disaster.
Backpack Fever addresses this concern and encourages people to be realistic before grabbing their SKS and going innawoods.

Re:Have someplace to go

[HornWumpus]

I don't know how that twit could spend that much time discussing backpacks and not mention: If your plan involves a backpack and bugging out do some god damn backpacking when times are good.

It's difficult and expensive to equip yourself with a weeks necessities in a backpack. Every backpacker I've ever met will laugh about the stuff they thought was necessary the first time they went for an overnight hike.

Bugging out should not be a primary plan. But you damn well better have the contingency covered. And you had better have thought it out.

Re:Western Europe

[maxume]

What about dinner?

Zombies

[jon787]

I'm well prepared for the zombie apocalypse.

Prepared

[HackHackBoom]

Some initial disclosure: My hobbies are hunting and mountaineering. Both of my parents are also retired Army.

I have a pretty well prepared plan actually.

We have two weeks of food and water which I check regularly, and being a hunter I have about 500 rounds of dry sealed hunting grade ammunition stored (locked) in the survival bag. I've also had several forms of bush survival classes and I'm extremely familiar with what is safe to eat and natural remedies for various issues. I also have several forms of long lasting antibiotics in the kit. Since I mountaineer you can bet your ass I have foul weather survival gear, also stored and ready to go.

We have three kinds of plans which is something I recommend everyone have:

1) Natural disaster which does not require evacuation. This is the hurricane avoidance type of thing (I live in the Northeast. IF a hurricane reaches us, its probably a A Big Deal). Hunker down, away from the windows, food, candles, extremely reduced dependence on social services such as running water and electricity.

The last two both involve the following: Gear off rack, duffles loaded, ready to move within 5 minutes of the decision to evacuate. Once this decision is made, there is NO argument. My wife is very aware that I switch gears into a mode which I learned from two very serious parents.

2) Natural disaster which forces an evacuation. The biggest question here is knowing when to get the hell out of dodge immediately, versus knowing when to wait for the unwashed mashes to run in panic because they're retarded. Gear is loaded and routes contrary to those being used by mass evacuees are chosen. In cases where this isn't possible, Every police and military station in the area is marked in a map. Short wave radio is already pre-tuned and tested for known open frequencies.

3) Man made disaster which forces an evacuation. Welp. This is it. If this plan is going into effect, there are a lot of variables. Is the air safe? Are the roads safe? Is fallout a concern? The answers here determine whether or not I'm just saying a quick prayer, covering my skin and praying to god, or I'm running. If I can run, my concern and courtesy for others is very limited. I'm the very serious guy loaded to bear and not taking shit from people around me. If I need to survive, my wife and I -will- survive. I am a firm believer in Darwin's theory of evolution and my genes are the alpha ones bud :P

Re:Prepared

[HornWumpus]

FYI you can make a decent air filter out of toilet paper rolls.

You plug the center holes well then draw the air through them lengthwise, in series. Make a bellows out of boxes, duct tape and plastic sheeting.

Always make sure you have plenty of duct tape on hand.

Avoid fire fights with other reasonably prepared people. I'd hate to have to shoot you (or vice versa.) Manners will be important.

Re:Prepared

[NotAGoodNickname]

Nowhere in your diatribe did you mention helping anyone in need. You are one sick fuck.

Re:Prepared

[maxume]

No no, he clearly stated that he will help anyone who needs to get out of his way to the next life.

Re:Prepared

[couchslug]

Unless you have vast resources and a team to work with, it's every man for himself and prepared friends.

Re:Prepared

[HackHackBoom]

Nowhere in your diatribe did you mention helping anyone in need. You are one sick fuck.

I didn't join up the peace corp. I think I need to be worried about my family first and others second. Don't get me wrong, I'd help others if I can and it won't endanger myself or more importantly my wife. And as for helping others in need... I teach survival courses for free so I'm not really sure what to tell you.

Re:Prepared

[DerekLyons]

I am a firm believer in Darwin's theory of evolution and my genes are the alpha ones bud

Alpha's are only Alpha because there is a social structure for them to be top dog of. If you truly understood Darwin's theory - you'd understand you're not an Alpha, you're a self centered egotist jerk. An exception in a society that has survived and prospered because it has evolved a social structure based on cooperation.

Tropical paradise

[gringofrijolero]

I may starve, but I sure won't freeze... And a mule still makes for pretty reliable transportation.. and communications are through drug induced telepathy..

Dominos

[pspahn]

The only thing we probably have to seriously worry about, is the disaster after the disaster.

If there is some cataclysmic quake/tsunami on the West Coast, I can imagine plenty of people showing up here shortly afterwards. We are not prepared to deal with a mass influx of Californians.

I guess my survival pack would include:

• "Native" bumper sticker
• Fake signs pointing the way to the farmer's market.
• Public transit pass.
• Chainsaw (for firewood, of course)
• A pair of those sunglasses that have lenses the size of grapefruits so I don't stick out.

You can't prepare for everything.

[benjamindees]

I'm keeping the failure option open.

Food Storage

[whois_drek]

Just find your nearest Mormon neighbor and mooch off them.

Hurricane Preparedness

[WebSorcerer]

We live South of Houston, 7 miles from the Gulf of Mexico. It is part of the culture here to be prepared to evacuate since the probability is rather high that we will be running from a hurricane [ http://goo.gl/Z9KbJ ].

The local government can require mandatory evacuation. Evacuation routes were formalized a few years ago, and supporting services are available along all the routes.

Re:Hurricane Preparedness

[Gordonjcp]

I live in north-west Scotland. You guys call it "Hurricane Season" and evacuate, we call it "January" and avoid putting washing on the line.

Re:Hurricane Preparedness

[ColdWetDog]

I live in north-west Scotland. You guys call it "Hurricane Season" and evacuate, we call it "January" and avoid putting washing on the line.

To be fair, there is a difference between trying to survive in a godforsaken, pestilent, mosquito infested swamp and a godforsaken windswept barren ice covered pestilent bog. Not exactly sure what the major difference is, likely either the mosquitoes or the Texans.

Re:Hurricane Preparedness

[Rufty]

The major difference? Banjos vs Bagpipes.

My primary emergency is financial.

[queazocotal]

I am in the fortunate position of owning my own house, and the unfortunate position of having a low income that may be interrupted.

I have around 3 months stock of 'normal' food, partially in a very large freezer.
I have maybe another 6 months of 'meh - pancakes again' type food.
I do have a generator, but I've chosen to keep a surplus of 6 months electricity paid with my electricity supplier.

Natural disasters are fortunately rare in Scotland.
This year I'm insulating the house, from its largely uninsulated prior condition to really quite toasty.
This'll mean I can have the heating on more than an electric blanket next winter, which is partially paid for
by not having the heating on this winter.

Re:My primary emergency is financial.

[dargaud]

I have around 3 months stock of 'normal' food, partially in a very large freezer.

Completely useless in the event of power going out for more than 24 hours. Which is very likely in many circumstances that don't even reach the 'disaster' level: storm the downs the power lines, fire at the plant, lack of fuel for the plant due to political reasons, sabotage...

Re:My primary emergency is financial.

[Rufty]

Storegga Slide

Re:My primary emergency is financial.

[turtledawn]

It's Scotland. The disaster is likely to be a major snow or ice storm, in which case you bury your frozen food in the snow. Not a big deal to keep most of your stash frozen in that situation.

Emergency by Neil Strauss

[Anonymous Showered]

Neil Strauss, the guy who wrote the book "The Game", also wrote a survival book of sorts for the modern age. There's an outline in there somewhere that describes how you should be prepared to GTFO if your country is screwed (either politically or environmentally). You'll need a second passport, some wildlife skills and a way to run your business on auto-pilot for passive income. It's an interesting read, but not a manual for us geeks.

Re:Emergency by Neil Strauss

[Finite9]

Damn you beat me to this post! Damn funny book, and is the bible when it comes to disaster planning.

Not wanting to ruin the 'conclusion', but best long-term strategy is *not* to be the loner with the gun living on his own in a fortress.

Learn survival skills and buy a good knife.

Survival is not the only option.

[russotto]

I work in Manhattan. Realistically, if a major disaster (as opposed to a localized one like 9/11, or a major inconvenience like the various blackouts) hits while I'm there, I'm gonna die. Either immediately from the floodwaters, buildings falling down in the earthquake, overpressure/heat/gamma radiation from the nuclear blast, etc, or from delayed effects like fallout or a later collapse, or from starvation or disease or murder as the largely isolated island (assuming all tunnels impassible and all bridges destroyed) turns to cannibalism.

Re:Survival is not the only option.

[russotto]

I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied. Learn to swim.

To where? Swimming to Long Island likely doesn't help. Swimming the Hudson is difficult in the summer and impossible in the winter unless you're both a strong swimmer and have a wetsuit or drysuit. That leaves the Harlem river; a good choice in that it gets you to mainland NY. But first you have to get there, and that's going to be a long and difficult walk from the lower end of the island after a disaster.

Re:Survival is not the only option.

[technomom]

I live in Westchester. So we're going to be the ones who envy the dead.

Re:Survival is not the only option.

[benjamindees]

But first you have to get there, and that's going to be a long and difficult walk from the lower end of the island after a disaster.

Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits.

Re:Survival is not the only option.

[AuMatar]

Knock the gold and silver off your list, they'll be worse than useless. In that event, there's only a few things anyone will take in trade- ammo, food, medicine, sex, drugs. Noone will take gold or silver because they can't do jack shit with them. Those are only valuable in the case that society is likely to reform- in which case plain old dollars will suffice.

Do I need to be?

[Securityemo]

Let's see, I live here in a town in the middle of a forest, inland, supplied by industrial rail (for the mine and forest industry), road, and a small passenger/freight airport. The town is on a hill, so there's no risk for flooding - and the ferro-magnetic mountains and rivers surrounding the area tend to absorb most of the lightning strikes. Heavy snowing might be a risk, but there's a large fleet of snow-clearing vehicles that can be brought out at any time. There are no mining activities that could pose a risk, and nothing that could explode or catch fire, not close to the inhabited areas in any case. The only spectacular accident that could befall me would be a rocket falling on my head from the local spaceport, but those are launched in the completely opposite direction so that seems unlikely. There's a certain lack of police manpower, but that doesn't pose a problem as long as you live inside the city and not in any of the surrounding villages. There's a modern fire station, and (for the moment anyway) emergency surgery and delivery capacity at the local hospital.

Recently, there's been problems with the central heating system pipes (there's a central waste burning facility that heats most of the houses in town) getting torn by the mountain shifting a bit due to mining activities, but they fix that in a day or so.

Having a weapon (gun or otherwise) at home for self-defense isn't legally or socially acceptable at all here, unless you are in the military/police, so that's not an issue. Violent crime is rare, mostly bar fights and such AFAIK. All in all, I think I'm pretty sure I'm well off on the safety front. But it'd sure be nice not to live halfway out in the middle of nowhere.

How creative are you?

[C3ntaur]

My wife and I talked about emergency preparedness the other day. She wanted to buy a kit from Costco, and I pointed out that with a little creativity we already have a lot of what we need.

Water: first off, our R.O. unit has a 2 gallon tank. Each of our toilets has 1.6 gallons in the tank. We have a propane BBQ and at least one tank of propane on hand so we could start boiling water the stored water runs out. If the muni water system isn't delivering anything at all, there's a creek nearby. And we have a ceramic purifier filter (for backpacking) that we could use in a pinch.

Food: At any given time there's at least 2 weeks' worth of dry and canned goods in our pantry. We shop at Costco and naturally stock up.

Shelter / warmth: We have a couple of tents, tarps, sleeping bags, and lots of blankets and sheets.

First aid: We already have a first aid kit.

Communications: We have a hand-crank radio, and a solar battery / cell phone charger.

Defence: In my mind, the most important item after water. We have weapons and ammunition.

Re:How creative are you?

[Mashiki]

Being that I live in Canada, and we occasionally get weather here that knocks out power to a few hundred thousand people occasionally. For 2-3 months at a time, most of what you have won't let you survive as long as you think. Back during the last major ice storm up northern ontario/quebec way there were parts of both provinces without hydro(which means no water among other stuff), for nearly 4 months. No real way to get around, military drop offs, etc. Which means that we were lucky.

A ceramic style water filter is good. You should also have bleach which will kill anything else that may be missed in the purifier. You should have a multi-fuel mini-stove, something that will work on oil(#1 or 2 inc. diesel), gasoline, white fuel(naptha), kerosene, etc that can be used when you're not making a fire outside for cooking. You should know basic survival stuff. How to lay snares, basic hunting traps, and how to clean your own kills(easier than it sounds), including how to clean fish properly. Making a fire bow, how to use flint and tinder(because even matches run out--and lots of people don't remember to waterproof them). How to bank coals in sand, etc.

Warmth you should have 2 types of sleeping bags, deep winter(rated for -40C), and summer. Shelter is generally easier. But knowing how to make a pine bush hut is good basic knowledge.

Communication? Cell phones generally don't work in a major disaster. Land lines generally do, unless there's a serious problem. Even with the ice storm up here land lines worked. You should have a basic CB which has a good range. Crank power supplies work as well, don't rely on solar, depending where you live not having solid sunlight for over a month can happen.

Weapons and ammunition are good, but knowing basic self defense is a plus.

Family Disaster Plan

[mfnickster]

Blatant karma whoring here...

Make a Family Disaster Plan, from the National Severe Storms Laboratory: http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/edu/safety/disasterplan.html

Note: plans described by this site cannot help you mediate disasters in your professional and personal lives.

Driving during a disaster

[Anonymous Coward]

As a first responder I'd just like to say please please please stay off the roads marked for disastor response. Not sure if they exist everywhere but they do up here in Vancouver, BC.

If you want some good information,the Canadian government has a good guide. http://www.getprepared.gc.ca/index-eng.aspx

And taking a first aid course is pretty much a must.

No

[line-bundle]

I am not prepared.

Basically not at all ...

[angel'o'sphere]

Well,
considering that all roads would be crowded with people trying to escape, I assume I would perhaps use my bicycle.

As I live in german and people here usually have no fire arms (except hunting rifles, if they have a license) there won't be much hunting. Keep in mind we don't have that much deer etc. anyway.

Food I don't have stockpiled. I have enough for a week I guess, but not more. Considering I live in a town, we don't have an emergency fallback generator. So storing lots of food in a freezer is no option ... assuming a major catastrophe would disrupt the power supply.

What people could do in the town here e.g. would perhaps having a boat. As we live at the river Rhein. So you could avoid being depending on the road. OTOH most dangerous industries are close to the river harbour ... so if something goes wrong there (oil refinery, coal power plant etc.) you are likely cut off from the boat.

I have a sound understanding how to camp, make a shelter in the woods etc. I can craft a bow and arrows more or less with bare hands. I also assume I have a good understanding which direction to use as escape route depending on the actual circumstances etc.

So, prepared? No, not really! Panicking, not really either. Chance of survival? Perhaps 50:50 worst case and 90:10 best case.

Best Regards

angel'o'sphere

P.S. we have like 4 or 5 nuclear reactors in ~50 miles range ... if something goes seriously wrong there ... I guess I plunder the next best super market and then hide in my flat.

Re:Western Europe

[Mr Thinly Sliced]

I live in the U.K. too and can confirm your suspicions - dinner is a disaster.

Fortunately we English have lived with this major emergency for long enough we take it all in our stride now. Ketchup. Lots of ketchup.

Puppy Chow

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in the downtown, upscale area of a large city. Poodles, spaniels and terriers would be the main fare. Just put out a little puppy chow and fire up the bbq or a campfire on the balcony.

Not prepared and not preparing

[prefec2]

I live in Kiel at the Baltic Sea and after checking my food supplies, I discovered 2 cans of tomatoes, spaghetti, wheat, sugar, honey, milk (1l), and 2 kg of coffee powder. And some fish artifacts and vegis in the fridge. However, when a major disaster would occur, I could still leave the house and enter one of those supermarkets close by (ca 5 min by foot). My home is uphill and I live in the third floor so the possibility of a flood is minimal. The only real danger would be a explosion of an atomic bomb (but then I do not need any cans of what so ever in my flat) or the close by coal-burning power plant goes. In that case my heating system will fail and for cold winters I am prepared.

Re:Not prepared and not preparing

[ColdWetDog]

You don't have near enough coffee. The rest looks OK though.

Moderately Prepared

[waldoj]

My wife and I like to stay fairly well prepared.

First, our home. We live in a very rural area, on the side of a treed mountain. We built our home last year, and it's passive solar, sited to take maximum advantage of the sun, built very tightly (LEED gold-ish, but we didn't bother to get certified). We maintain the forest, have large piles of wood in rotation being seasoned, and keep a large stockpile of planked wood on hand (milled from the trees on our land). Our neighbors have cows, goats, and sheep, from which they produce milk and meat—handy to have When The Shit Comes Down®. (I use that phrase facetiously—it's a generic term that my wife and I use to refer to anything that may or may not happen in our lifetimes that would disrupt supply chains, limit movement, or otherwise require short or long-term independence.) We paid a few thousand bucks to have an enormous propane tank buried next to our house, in which we maintain a two-year supply of propane. Soon enough we'll have a propane generator, a few solar panels, and a small windmill, which should allow us to maintain ~1.5 kWh of power during about half of the day, but make it possible to peak to 5 kWh when demand requires (until the propane runs out, and then we top out at 1.5 kWh).

Second, food and water. We always keep about ten pounds of oats, twenty pounds of flour, ten pounds of sugar, ten pounds of rice, and ten pounds of dried beans on hand. We always have 20 gallons of fresh drinking water stored, 55 gallons of rainwater, and we maintain a spring. Also, we have a stream. We have a small flock of chickens, a horse, and we're about to get ducks. Six months out of the year we have what's either a large garden or a small farm, and we put up a lot of food in the fall. Not enough to get us through a winter, but we do alright, and feel confident that we could ramp up production significantly, if need be. We save our seed, so the notion of increasing the size of our garden by tenfold with four months of lead time (seasonally depending, of course) isn't totally unreasonable.

Third, medical. We've got potassium iodide on hand (there's a nuclear power plant ~35 miles from us), a dose of Tamiflu for each of us, two very complete medical kits, moderate training in first aid (with more coming soon—see below), and we generally maintain a three-month supply of our medications.

Fourth, general supplies. We have an oil lamp (and, of course, lamp oil), a bunch of candles, several fire extinguishers, a NOAA radio, a hand-cranked AM/FM/shortwave radio, matches, lighters, a flotilla of batteries of all sorts, headlamps, and flashlights. We keep a couple of canisters of propane on hand (rotated through annually, thanks to grilling season) and have a propane heater that can heat our entire house for a couple of days with one of those plugged in.

Fifth, evacuation preparedness. We keep a 72-hour pack by the front door, ready to go, with a couple of hundred bucks in cash, a few days food, tinned water, flashlights, blankets, tarps, matches, fire starters, and so on. We've got sleeping bags and internal frame packs on hand for each of us. The idea is to make sure that if sheltering in place isn't safe, that we can leave without delay.

Finally, a flotilla of books (not all of which we've read, I admit) on wilderness medicine. This Tuesday we're starting an eight-week Community Emergency Response Team training course (held just once a week). This is available in most areas—google around to see if you can take it in your area. That's where you can learn to be helpful in an emergency, rather than somebody who needs help—learn to use a chainsaw, direct traffic, suture a wound, lead a panicked group of people to safety, etc. Recommended highly.

I've come to relish when we lose power in good weather. It's a chance to test out our plans. There are a lot of basic aspects to preparedness that would just never cross your mind until you actually need to carry out that plan. You know how, without power, you keep flipping light switches every time you walk into a room, or thinking "well, I'll just google that...*DOH*"? The same applies to all kinds of things, like having candles...but no matches. :)

Re:Moderately Prepared

[Rick17JJ]

Drinking water is one of my concerns. I could use my Berkey water purifier to drink the water from the small nearby lake. Here in Arizona, I am fortunate to have a nearby source of water. I could probably tie several large jugs and cans of water to my bicycle, push my heavily loaded bicycle along the 1/2 mile route back home.

I have always kept several small packages of potassium iodide tablets on hand for emergency purposes. I have two packages have not yet reached the expiration date, and several more that are slightly beyond their expiration date. I do not expect to need to take the potassium iodide tablets anytime soon.

I eat beans, hot cereal, fruit and several types of vegetables and sprouts every day. I also eat smaller amounts of canned sardines, tuna, and unsalted peanuts. My supply of fruit and vegetables would be gone quickly, but I would still have plenty of beans, oatmeal, peanuts, canned sardines and tuna, and seeds for sprouting.

To cook the food, I have a small multi-fuel camping stove and also a very small efficient wood burning camping stove.

I do not have a wood stove or fireplace, so during a power failure during the winter my plan would be to wear my fleece lined pants, long underwear, jacket, hat and gloves and sleep in my sleeping bag. At 5,200 foot elevation in Arizona that should be adequate.

I do have a general class ham radio operators, but am not set up for long distance communications with HF. But, I do have a 2-meter/440 radio in my truck and a 2-meter radio at home and a smaller old hand held 2-meter radio. Without the help of the mountain top repeaters, I can easily access anything line of sight and a little beyond. When using one of several mountain top repeaters, I can easily talk to hams 70 miles or so away in nearby cities such as Phoenix, Flagstaff, Kingman, Williams or Sedona. I can do that on battery power from my truck.

For emergency purposes, I also have some #10 cans of various types of dried beans, rolled oats, quinoa, dried banana chips, and other types of dried food. I bought them from Walton Feed, which specializes in selling cans and buckets of dried foods packaged for longer storage life. If I remember correctly the rolled oats, noodles and dried beans are are supposed to be good for about 8 years, when stored at normal room temperature. Some foods such as powdered milk and flour have a very short storage life. Some hard shelled grains with their shells intact, such as wheat, have a very long storage life. I chose canned versions of the dried foods because so that the local pack rats and mice would not eat my emergency supplies.

As far as protein, most grains are missing one amino acid, but most beans are missing a different amino acid. Fortunately, if both beans an a grain are eaten withing about 24 hours, complete protein is absorbed, because of the complementary amino acids. So there would be adequate protein in such a diet even without the sardines and tuna.

I also have a hand crank operated AM/FM/Weather band radio and a hand crank operated LED flashlight, and several other flashlights. Unfortunately,I have not yet had time to learn very much about guns, or to practice much. I do have a .357 magnum revolver stored in a very small pistol safe, and also have an old Ruger 10/22 rifle. I would eventually like to also get a pump type 12-gage shotgun, because the distinctive sound of a shell being loaded would probably discourage many trouble makers. I would not want to have someone try to kill me just to steal the pack rat that I was cooking.

Don't ask what my address is. Several of my neighbors who are the ones who are also fairly well prepared, are the only ones who know that I am somewhat prepared.

Re:Moderately Prepared

[wiredlogic]

You could dispense with the Tamiflu. It's only value is as a psychosocial security blanket. It only lessens symptoms by one day and only if you take it soon enough. If you wait until you know you have the flu and not a cold it's too late to do anything.

Re:Moderately Prepared

[potat0man]

oh please. Who, in an emergency, combs over old slashdot posts to find possible food stashes to pilfer?

Besides, I've got to think it's a lot easier to plant some crops and defend your home than it is to risk an attack on someone else's in the hopes that they have something worth dying for. In a chaotic environment patrolled only by small communities of vigilantes armed to the teeth, do you really want to risk being known as a thief or murderer? It's not like you'd get 5 years in the local county jail, you'd be shot in the head on the spot.

Re:Moderately Prepared

[bhiestand]

If there's a significant nuclear event, don't even think about drinking that milk. It's the primary pathway for cesium and iodine.

Also, do you have a way to remove your house from the grid so that you'll be able to use the electricity you produce?

Firearms

[waldoj]

I almost forgot: firearms. We've got a 12-gage shotgun, a .22, and a 7.92mm 1948 Turkish Mauser. I've only got a couple of boxes of shells, and maybe three dozen rounds for the Mauser (they're expensive) but I have a few hundred rounds for the .22. We can hunt enough turkey, deer, and squirrel to keep us in protein year-round. Right now I hunt rarely, and when I do it's strictly for food (not trophies), but I'm certainly prepared to do so regularly if it were necessary.

If you have never hunted, note that there is nothing about owning a gun that prepares you to do so. If you're thinking "hey, I see deer around—I could eat those," then you are wrong. Learn to hunt now. Get a license. Find somebody to teach you how to gut and butcher a deer. Otherwise, if you do wind up in a bad situation, you might get lucky enough to actually shoot a deer, only to find that you have no idea of what to do with it. Worse still, it'll be gut-shot, and you'll wind up getting some horrible disease from eating venison streaked with deer shit.

Seen a few

[digitalhermit]

I've lived through a few hurricanes, been in the woods for a days at a time, have had broken bones, been held up at gunpoint...

Staying calm is vitally important. The best thing to help in staying calm in having experience and knowledge. When confronted with new situations it's much more stressful because you don't know what to do next.

So preparation is key. It might be as simple as stocking up on a few items. Tarps, canned goods, *water*, first aid kits, etc. come in handy. There are also some other less obvious things... A GPS unit is so very helpful... When Hurricane Andrew stopped by it took away all the street signs. I remember driving to check on a relative who lived less than 5 miles away. Without street signs I could not quickly find a house I'd visited dozens of times before... You know what I missed too? Toothpaste. And baby wipes. We were able to flush the toilet, but showering was risky because of possible breaks in the water lines.

Having a plan is helpful. It could be as simple as knowing where the exits in your house are. Where is the closest shelter? If your car is un-driveable (blocked or destroyed), can you walk to that shelter with the 6 days worth of equipment? The sleeping bag and the 2-burner propane stove seems a lot less necessary when you need to carry it 10 miles on foot.

Do you have copies of your paperwork? Some people scan deeds, insurance papers, contracts, etc.. onto a USB stick. Others put them in a fire safe. If you have to leave your home, can you carry that safe along with 200lbs of other equipment?

Do you know how to set a broken bone? Can you use wound gel? What happens if you get punctured by a rusty nail?

We can go on for hours about the things we need. Firearms? Will they help set your broken leg? I'm not discounting their value, but carting around an AR-15 and that heavy-ass ammo is not too likely if you have to move.

And don't forget your towel.

Re:Seen a few

[maxwell demon]

Firearms? Will they help set your broken leg?

Depends on the type. I guess a rifle could be used to splint your leg. :-)

Re:Seen a few

[mazesc]

And don't forget your towel.

I never leave my house without my towel and the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy".

Food is the least of your concerns

[Anonymous Coward]

While people are lining up outside relief tents to get their MREs or Spam, we can be out hunting deer, turkey, dove, quail, etc. While you're eating rehydrated bread, we can be dining on some roast duck or deer tenderloin steak. You think during a flood you'll be able to drive down to the local McDonald's and order up a burger?

In a disaster, food is a minor concern. You can survive with minimal (or no) food for a good long while. What you'll need is:

1. Clean water
2. Medical supplies, depending on how injured you are
3. Shelter
4. Warmth
Then you can start worrying about food.

To some degree, you might be able to use your personal arsenal to persuade other, better prepared survivors to share such things with you. And you might do a better job of holding on to such supplies as you already have. But guns and food will only get you so far.

Re:Food is the least of your concerns

[Fjandr]

All completely true. Unfortunately, it seems that any time firearms are mentioned anywhere as a useful tool, the hordes descend to focus on all the multitude of ways a person is not able to do anything useful with them, ever. So the conversation gets bogged down in semantic arguments, and can't move on to discussion of all the other important aspects of disaster preparedness. The "You can't do that" or "That won't work" statements usually rely on assuming specific conditions, which is absurd when talking about general disaster preparedness. However, those who feel they must focus on why others are crazy for owning and learning how to use one specific tool are not going to go away, so we'll have to live with the derailments they cause.

Re:typo

[timothy]

Thanks -- now nabbed.

timothy

Don't forget dog food

[roc97007]

I've been adding to a cache of food slowly over the last couple years. I was going for 3 months but I think I have more like 6 months cached now. Something to remember is to stock up on dog food as well. I have two 40 pound bags in the garage besides the bin in the storage room, and cycle the oldest bag through as I buy more. If something bad happens, your dog may become very important to you, and in any case as a responsible owner you should provide for them as you would your family.

Firearms/ammo are taken care of.

I have a small amount of emergency supplies in each vehicle as well. Enough for a night in the snow.

We don't have a detailed plan but in general if this area is rendered uninhabitable and we're able to get out, we have a relative's place 200 miles away at which to regroup, and another one 500 miles away as a secondary option.

On data, I have what's important to me backed up to DVD at a friend's house, but that only protects me from very narrowly defined disasters. I'm thinking I should put a second copy some geological distance away.

Re:talking about data how safe are the data center

[JimToo]

Even if the diesel is available the traffic snarls up bad. If the data centre is inside a region badly hit the officials will close the area to everyone for their "safety" even if the building is safe. Our IT support continued to work because it was in another city. The building in Chch our office was in had the MSB (a diesel was there too I think) in the basement, which flooded. No doubt that is where the rebuilt MSB (main switchboard) will go. And god, it takes so long for anything to progress.

Cheap and easy

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

Make friends with your neighbors. You can trade what you have in surplus with them for whatever you've forgotten. They are perimeter security. See if you can get them to Community Emergency Response Training.

Buy a little extra food when it's on sale.

Refill your gas tank when it gets down to a half. If there's an orderly evacuation, you won't be in the crowds at the gas station.

Have an out of area contact for your family to coordinate. The phone company will prioritize calls going out of the disaster area.

Your first need will be water. Even a few gallons can make a difference. Read up on how to store it and how often to rotate it.

There's a lot more you can do, but the above cost almost nothing and you can start on them immediately.

I live in Ireland

[Dartz-IRL]

I live in Ireland. We don't have major national emergencies. Just irritations.

Barring a meteorite, nothing bad will ever happen here. Nothing bad ever happens here. No hurricanes. No earthquakes. No volcanoes. No tornadoes. No wars. No terrorism(not anymore anyway). Small floods that only annoy at worst. Most peaceful and safe country on the planet. So why prepare for an emergency that isn't going to happen?

Re:I live in Ireland

[Wyatt Earp]

No volcanoes? Really?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1271645/Iceland-volcano-ash-cloud-Planes-grounded-Ireland-Scotland.html

Someday something big in Iceland could erupt and Ireland could get ash fall.

Re:I live in Ireland

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

We don't have major national emergencies. .... Nothing bad ever happens here.

Dartz,.... I am disappoint.

Re:I live in Ireland

[Hognoxious]

Right, because a small amount of dust which leads to a precautionary ban because it might affect aircraft engines is totally the same thing as happened to Pompeii.

Re:I live in Ireland

[ickleberry]

At the end of the day, you'd just never know. Boy

Re:I live in Ireland

[rrohbeck]

You have a disaster every day. It's called weather.

Re:I live in Ireland

[Xyrus]

You know, I certainly hope you don't live to regret those words.

Re:I live in Ireland

[Cimexus]

Similar here. I live in inland SE Australia in a mountainous area. This is well outside the area that can get cyclones. The topography of the region makes widespread flooding impossible. And Australia being in the middle of a tectonic plate does not experience (major) earthquakes, nor does it have any volcanoes. Too far inland for tsunamis to be an issue. The only natural disaster that could affect a widespread area around here is a fire, and even that is exceedingly unlikely to be of a 'society collapsing' scale (being in the middle of an urban area means that the bushfires we do get around here burn at the edges of the city, but not wipe the whole place off the map or anything - you need abundant dry vegetation to keep the fire going).

So basically, my disaster preparation is 'small to none'. But short of nuclear war or meteorite, there's nothing that could really require such preparation in this area. Some people on this forum seem to love the survivalist mindset, but even in earthquake/hurricane/etc prone regions I honestly can't see how you'd ever need more than a few days worth of food and water as a precaution. Look at Japan, look at the NZ earthquake, look at the massive flooding and cyclones that smashed huge areas of northern Australia in the last year. In each case, people lost homes, power and phones were out for a while, etc, but being first world countries, help was on the ground immediately, people were sheltered, and noone starved. If I lived in a chaotic, undeveloped country in Africa or something then yeah, I'd see the need for preparation and self-sufficiency. But that shouldn't be needed in a developed country other than a bit of food and water, and maybe a generator if you really can't live without power for a few days. And even that would only be needed in a major disaster of the type that can't really happen in many areas of the world, such as where I live, or in Ireland ;)

If I lived in, say, California, I'd definitely have a basic survival pack sitting in the basement. A big earthquake will happen there sooner or later. Even if it wasn't actually needed in an emergency, it's the polite thing to do: if you can draw upon your own supplies for a while rather than burdening the emergency services, that is a good thing - less work and cost for them, less strain on the system, more for other people etc. I'd do it out of politeness and as consideration to others in the society, rather than any particular need for self-sufficiency though.

Re:I live in Ireland

[quenda]

I live in Ireland. We don't have major national emergencies. Just irritations.

Tough people the Irish. Even a famine that kills a million people is a mere "irritation".

are vegetarians a food source?

[jkinney3]

Does having a list of all know vegetarians within 2 miles count as a food source? :-)
I do have several days worth of canned food on hand at all times along with dried beans and rice for weeks. Canned turkey spam. Yum! I also have 3 days worth of water in a series of jugs that I do cycle through to keep them "fresh". Plus batteries (hidden from my 12 year old gamer) and a Coleman camp stove with 6 jugs of fuel. Add tents, sleeping bags good to well below freezing, many back packs, several first aide kits, and few items of ID/deed/title nature in a fast grab pack in the safe with the arsenal and ammo. What I don't have is fuel cans and carriers for the car and enough spare dog food. The cats will likely have to fend for themselves as they will scatter while the dogs will clump around us. Plus the hip flask with single malt scotch for emergencies!
My tools are usually scattered all over the house so a fast grab and run of those is likely to be fatal to me in many emergency types (fire, tornado, zombie uprising, etc).

Re:are vegetarians a food source?

[benjamindees]

Does having a list of all know vegetarians within 2 miles count as a food source?

They're pretty scrawny and they don't breed true but you can usually find some free-range chickens nearby.

You need to be armed better than your neighbors

[PolygamousRanchKid]

And hope that they have enough food and stuff that you can pillage from them. Survival, through superior fire power. It sounds a bit crass, but when push comes to shove, that's how it will all end. And nothing enhances the experience of a major emergency like a good firefight.

Gas, booze and guns

[Wyatt Earp]

I'm in Alaska, Tsunami won't get us at work or home, so always half a tank of fuel in both vehicles, have at least a hundred rounds for each gun, couple bottles of booze and beer ready to go.

Medical supplies are always in a go-bag, I could be out of here in 5-10 minutes.

The plan is though to hunker down and wait i out unless the gas lines break, if the DPRK, PRC or Russia nukes the base, well we are close enough we'll get taken out at home or work, so nothing to worry about there.

Re:Gas, booze and guns

[ColdWetDog]

I'm in Alaska, ... couple bottles of booze and beer ready to go.

Only a couple? In Alaska? Seems pretty light from what I can tell from my neighbors.

Re:Gas, booze and guns

[Wyatt Earp]

OK, couple half gallons of booze.

phew, at least my data will be safe.

[cfriedt]

Is your data safe? What about your family?

Actually, my wife and son will probably perish, but at least I'll know that my email and bookmarks will be redundantly backed up by Google.

I'll Tell You

[waldoj]

How many ducks and deer do you think there *are*? If there was an actual disaster, the deer, duck, quail, and lizard populations would plummet as a teaming horde of well-armed people suddenly ravage the landscape.

Cornell University Cooperative Extension: "Today there are over 20 million deer in the United States and numbers are rising. [...] Densitites may exceed 40 deer per square mile in some rural areas, and over 100 deer/square mile have been documented near many eastern metropolitan areas. [...] As long as adequate food resources are available, deer populations can double in size every 2-3 years. Eventually some form of population management is needed to control herd growth and maintain deer numbers within the social carrying capacity."

There are plenty of deer.

Re:I'll Tell You

[jez9999]

Thank god there have always been humans with guns around to control the deer population, or there'd be infinity deers by now.

Re:I'll Tell You

[DrgnDancer]

There are 300 million people in the US. How long do you think 20 million deer will feed them? Of course, short of an incredibly major disaster, all 300 million of them won't simultaneously be needing the deer, but by the same token not all 20 million deer are going to available to the subset who do. "Oh, but my area has a low population density!" Great, that just means that statistically you're even more likely to get competition. Most like a much larger percentage of your neighbors have guns and no how to hunt.

Re:I'll Tell You

[couchslug]

"Most like a much larger percentage of your neighbors have guns and no how to hunt."

They'd serve in forming a local militia along the lines of those in Iraq, securing the local area, and killing intruders if necessary.

There is no obligation to save the competition.

Re:I'll Tell You

[drsquare]

Do you honestly think the US has the population density to support a hunter/gatherer existence?

Re:I'll Tell You

[drinkypoo]

There are 300 million people in the US. How long do you think 20 million deer will feed them?

That only makes the gun all the more important. When the hungry come around, I want to have my own gun.

Of course, it also makes location the three most important things about your chances for survival in a cataclysm-level emergency.

Most of my neighbors who have guns know how to hunt. The majority of the rest are meth-heads, but our new Sheriff is actually doing something about them.

Assessment is Key

[BoRegardless]

Range of a disaster is most important as a first action guide.

A "normal" earthquake in California affects a very small number of miles of territory. Hence, getting help from friends, family or red cross is not such a big deal in distance and time. Short term food & water supply is mandatory and easy & cheap to keep in a garage or apartment. This is not apocalypse.

If a break in the Newport-Inglewood offshore fault sent a 50 foot wave ashore, hundreds of thousands of people would be washed away with only minutes of warning and the streets would be plugged solid with cars as the waves came in. Nothing could be done (as in Japan) to help those killed instantly, and the survivors who managed to float in somewhere alive would have NOTHING with them, so they would accept the help they could get from others.

If you are just outside the devastation zone, then how are you going to provide for yourself and help others?

All planning becomes REAL when a disaster strikes and everyone has to improvise.

Re:Assessment is Key

[mysidia]

If you are just outside the devastation zone, then how are you going to provide for yourself and help others?

Seems like everyone needs to dig and construct a waterproof, earthquake proof, chamber under their house to stock enough food and water to sustain a few thousand people for a few months.

Long term storage of water should be easy... but I wonder... what type of feed has a long enough shelf life that you could stick it in storage for a few hundred years, and use it at any time without spoilage or contamination worries?

Re:Assessment is Key

[BoRegardless]

I remember a solo round-the-world sailor in the sixties sailing "Galway Blazer", as I recall, didn't want to carry lots of food things so he settled on a single mixed food source.

I seem to recall it was almonds in honey providing a nearly balanced food source, though I would check that with current nutritional knowledge.

Re:Assessment is Key

[benjamindees]

I seem to recall it was almonds in honey providing a nearly balanced food source, though I would check that with current nutritional knowledge.

Sounds like that covers the sugar and fat food groups, but it doesn't take into account recent advancements in the necessity of the sodium group.

Re:Heavily Prepared

[maxwell demon]

Just in case the earth gets demolished by a Vogon fleet I've got plenty paper bags for all sizes of human heads. Just send me youre Name, Visa Card (for age verification), Social security number (I don't have a good reason for this one), telephone number, address, and your medical record and I'll be happy to ship you bags for the whole family. As a bonus I will add a bag of peanuts (the size they used to but not serve anymore on airlines) containing salt which everyone knows you'll need a lot of in such situations.

Actually, for that case I always have my towel ready. However I've still not managed to get an electronic thumb.

Earthquake box

[kwerle]

California, near (10-15 miles) a nuke plant.
We have an earthquake box with enough food stuff to last weeks. We have at least a week of water and there is a river running through town where we could get more for double boiling. We have a couple of camp stoves and a BBQ. Cold weather isn't an issue. We have 2 bikes in good condition for getting around should gas become a problem. We have iodide pills if the nuke plant has a little trouble.

If the nuke plant has serious trouble we toss the bikes in the pickup with as much food as is easy to get our hands on and head any direction but west as far as we need to. We have friends & family about 250 miles in opposite directions if there is a local event.

Is your data safe?

[nurb432]

When the world is melting down around you that should be the least of your concerns. Food, water, shelter, etc is a bit more important.

Re:Western Europe

[TheRaven64]

When I bought my house, one of the reports warned me that it was only 200m away from a flood plain and so in danger of flooding. What it didn't say was that this includes about 30m of vertical distance as well, and the sea is only slightly further away, so it's pretty unlikely to flood unless the sea level rises by 50m or so.

Just remember

[PPH]

When in danger,
or in doubt,
run in circles,
scream and shout.

-- Xavier Onassis, Director of Emergency Preparedness

Re:talking about data how safe are the data center

[mysidia]

Even if the diesel is available the traffic snarls up bad. If the data centre is inside a region badly hit the officials will close the area to everyone for their "safety" even if the building is safe.

There are ways around that. You may need to own quite a bit of property though to bulldoze a temporary road into your datacenter, from outside the area, and you need sufficient fencing and other such items in place to deter unlawful entry by other people who might interfere.

Another way would be to be recognized by your local government as workers supporting critical inrastructure, such as communication services required by the government. With the right papers, signage, and/or social engineering/disguise, it's possible to circumvent any barrier.

Rural Canada

[Abstrackt]

I've found the best emergency preparedness is being on good terms with the neighbors. If you know everyone within an hour's walking distance you tend to benefit from a larger skill set than what you have on your own. One guy's a hunter/trapper, I have access to a pile of radio equipment, the nice old lady about a mile down is a hardcore homesteader (I think she only buys milk), so we're all set up to help each other out.

Re:Rural Canada

[b4upoo]

In most places game and fish will be exhausted in a day or two if the population gets hungry. Living off the land is always difficult but with a few hundred million people scavenging for all their food it will be impossible to sustain human life even in remote areas. People will follow the food to every little corner.

Re:Rural Canada

[Mashiki]

Even in Canada unless you're 800km outside of civilization that's where everyone else will be heading to get something to eat, or try and take it from you in a serious disaster.

Survival: Hunker Down or Get Outta Dodge?

[Phoenix666]

I live in Brooklyn and work in Manhattan, so both kinds of "survival" situations, the stay-put kind and the get-outta-dodge kind, have happened within recent memory, namely 9/11 and the great Blackout of '03.

Both times the overwhelming lesson was that trying to go anywhere is mostly pointless, because 7 million other people are trying to do the same thing at the same time. Stay put if you can with enough food & water for 6 wks and a way to let evac teams know where you are.

But if you have to go, cars are out--total gridlock. If you're in the outer boroughs, a bicycle is your absolute best bet on land; when all the cars are jammed up you can still ride on sidewalks, bike paths in the parks, and between the cars if you have to. If you're in Manhattan, you're flirched, because even on foot, walking, takes hours; there are so many people you cannot even run. The only option there is to grab something that floats and swim the Hudson or East River.

Those are disaster situations, short-term, localized catastrophes. Apocalypses, real collapse-of-civilization stuff, are different. Even then, what you do depends on the manner in which things collapse. If everyone else dies in a plague and you don't, then in terms of survival you're on easy street. There's enough stored canned goods, water, equipment, shelter, gasoline and everything else imaginable out there right now to last a handful of folks for the rest of their lives, even if you factor in panic looting and such. Shoot, park yourself in a suburban Walmart, lock the doors, and you can survive quite happily for 50 years.

But above all else and across all situations you need to be a class A scavenger, a scrounger, and have the will to do what it takes to get by.

Foxfire, Nextel and Glock

[kencf0618]

One of my colleagues who lives up in the Boise Hills has been feeling a strong urge lately to live closer to the land and further off the grid, if only by buying a goat. I suggested that she start selling halal goat meat to the local Muslim population, such as it is. More seriously, I recommended the Foxfire anthologies --and much to my surprise, she'd never heard of them! There are twelve in the series now, so whether you want to churn your own butter or fix up some bear stew, that's the place to go. It came from the backwash of the '60s, but AFAIK it's still a good DIY resource.

If I was still living in earthquake country (Loma Prieta, 1989) I would still have a Sprint/Nextel phone with the latter's Direct Connect, which is half-duplex. Even if the infrastructure was totally shot, they'd still function directly as walkie-talkies.

I'm in no sense a survivalist, though. If the civil order collapsed I'd probably be standing in line with virtually everyone else. My 9mm Glock 17 wouldn't even come into play --I'm just a geek with a gun.

Still, it's a good idea to stock up one's larder, just in case.

         

Sweden

[SwedishPenguin]

I'm nowhere near a fault line, so major earthquakes can be ruled out, there are no volcanoes around (I suppose if Iceland blows we could get some ash). I live in Stockholm so the Baltic is close though there's a huge archipelago that would probably slow down a hurricane/whatever before it reached me (and I live on one of the tallest hills in the city), even in the unlikely event that something like that occurs in the Baltic.
I'm not prepared at all, though if I did need to evacuate for some reason I suppose I could use my bike, that would probably be the best way of getting out of the city with all the roads jammed and trains standing still (assuming power outage). And I do have a backpack and a sleeping bag, and food could be scrounged from the kitchen cabinets I suppose.

Reading this thread makes it clear to me that I should at all costs avoid being in the US during a disaster though, millions of people running around, each of them armed to the teeth, seems liable to start small wars over remaining food and water sources.

Missing options....

[cold fjord]

Making preparations for emergencies and disasters gives you a greater margin to survive. You might not be getting any help any time soon, if ever. Consider the fact that the states knew that they were responsible for taking care of incidents for four days before FEMA stepped in, and the botched responses by the city of New Orleans (epic fail), the state of Louisiana (epic fail), and ultimately the federal government in Katrina. Not a shining moment for the United States.

However, many police, fire and EMS organizations from outside the affected areas were reportedly hindered or otherwise slowed in their efforts to send help and assistance to the area. FEMA sent hundreds of firefighters who had volunteered to help rescue victims to Atlanta for 2 days of training classes on topics including sexual harassment and the history of FEMA.[12] Official requests for help through the proper chains of command were not forthcoming due to local and state delays in engaging FEMA for federal assistance, even after approached by such authorities. Local police and other EMS workers found the situation traumatic; at least two officers committed suicide, and over 300 deserted the city after gang violence and "turf wars" erupted around the city.[13] A report by the Appleseed Foundation, a public policy network, found that local entities (nonprofit and local government agencies) were far more flexible and responsive than the federal government or national organizations. The federal response was often constrained by lack of legal authority or by ill-suited eligibility and application requirements. In many instances, federal staff and national organizations did not seem to have the flexibility, training, and resources to meet demands on the ground."[14Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina]

Think at least five basic scenarios, not all of which you may believe is necessary to prepare for, and you can do it in steps.
- Trouble on the road (breakdown on deserted road, trapped by blizzard or flood)
- Quickly evacuate from home indefinitely (hurricane, tornado, fire, flash flood, industrial accident, terrorist attack)
- Trapped at home for 1-4 weeks with loss of some services (massive blizzard, floods, loss of power, flu epidemic)
- Massive civil disorder (LA riots, Katrina looting & gang activity)
- Society changing event (deadly pandemic, EMP bombs destroy all electronics, major disruption in society)

Preparations can start small:
- For the car: a first aid kit, a couple of space blankets and plastic ponchos, some matches, steel mugs, a few granola bars, a can/bottle opener, bottled water, small tool kit, knife, duct tape, and flashlight.
- For the home: 3 days supply of food and water set aside, a first aid kit, flashlights w/ batteries, battery operated radio, some emergency cash, a fire extinguisher, a small repair kit/tool kit
- Start pulling your documents together in a safe place

Over time, you can build up to prepare to the level you believe necessary, including a one year supply of food for long term storage (just an example - many other vendors / options).

Ready America
Are You Ready? - An In-depth Guide to Citizen Preparedness
How to Disaster-Proof Your Life
How to Survive Anything Mother Nature Throws at You
Blackout Survival Guide
4 Facts You Need to Know About D

Stupid response

[SuperKendall]

There are 300 million people in the US. How long do you think 20 million deer will feed them?

The OP was about taking care of yourself, not 300 million people.

But also, your response is stupid in another way - deer breed rapidly and in a pinch 20 million deer could almost feed that many people sustainably, especially if you started breeding them.

But basically for short term, like he was saying he could be eating deer while other people have to do with ration handouts. You don't need to feed 300 million people, just yourself because most people will not prepare to that degree.

Re:Stupid response

[suomynonAyletamitlU]

The OP was about taking care of yourself, not 300 million people.

But also, your response is stupid in another way - deer breed rapidly

You haven't thought it out. If you're hunting for food, you are relying on the fact that there are hundreds of times as much prey as there are predators.

One deer feeds a couple people for maybe a day or two, if the deer is large enough. Assuming deer double in population once every two year (two deer make two deer in two years), there have to be as many brand new deer at the end of those two years as you ate during those two years. In other words, if you ate deer every day, the population just in your area, just in the population you're targetting has to be on the order of 600-1200 deer. Multiply that by how many people will think this is a good idea.

Now, you're NOT eating only deer, but if interstate commerce is cut off and game is the only renewable source of food (how many people in any given state farm?), a lot of people are going to panic and decide to take matters into their own hands. And virtually nobody in this country has been trained in sustainable hunting, while guns are so readily available (if not ubiquitous); that means that the number of people who will have the opportunity to do panic-hunting is huge. Gonna argue with them? While they're panicking, and have a gun?

Suffice it to say, no, game hunting is not going to save us. Period.

Re:Stupid response

[DrgnDancer]

I addressed the first point. OP will either (a) not be the only one hunting the deer (if he lives in a relatively rural area where a lot of people know how to hunt), or (b) have hard time finding the deer (if he lives in a relatively urban area where they're not likely to be hanging out). Now when the Hell did we start farming them? we're talking about a disaster here. Any kind of significant husbandry program will take months, if not years, to organize. But hey, my response is stupid. Sure.

Re:Stupid response

[Fjandr]

Nobody was saying, or even implying, it would. It would save a small number: those who were prepared. The rest would rely on looting, the government, hunters, gardeners, or starve. In a large enough, sustained disaster, it would mostly be the latter, because large cities are unsustainable without a massive support network.

Actually, such a thing would be good, as the current growth rate of the human population is unsustainable. At some point, some such thing will happen, and those who have the skills and tools to survive (hunting and firearms being only a single example) will have much better chances than those who have to rely on others to provide part or all of their basic survival needs.

Re:Stupid response

[maxume]

You seem to think deer all weigh about the same amount as a rabbit. A white tail would feed a couple of people for a week, a mule deer or elk would feed a lot of people for a week.

Spoiled

[SuperKendall]

While you're out, could you gun down a 140-count box of Pampers for me, please?

It's called a "cloth" and "water" and lasts for infinity.

I Won't Make It

[b4upoo]

In a great emergency my chances are very poor of survival. Age and disabilities don't help.
                      But on a larger scale the real issue is always avoided. Over population and population density are the big nightmare. Haiti is over populated and that leads to poverty, poor construction, poor choice of housing locations and everything needed to amplify any catastrophe. Japan is not poor. The construction must be pretty good as the amount of metal in the debris indicates better than average construction. But because of the population density numerous nuclear power plants were at hand. Further the amount of chemicals spilled from the tsunami as well as issues such as grave yard leakage, gasoline tanks and industrial chemicals spilled and the close proximity of individuals spreading any disease outbreaks is a nightmare. Imagine the same wave hitting the shore and a total of only ten thousand citizens exposed to the hazards. Japan could easily manage the results if the population was not so great. Worse yet, just like our own. their social systems are so locked together than one problem cause many others even in areas not directly affected by the quakes or the waves. We now have a GM factory shut down in Louisiana due to a lack of parts from Japan.
                      If this tragedy destroys the economy of Japan a world wide depression could easily be a consequence.

Gotcha beat

[Weaselmancer]

I'm in the SCA. My entire basement is a survival kit.

What you call the end of civilization I call a vacation.

Re:Gotcha beat

[rtfa-troll]

I'm guessing that's Sierra Club of America? I tried searching on Google, but the best that came up was "SCA - Sexual Compulsives Anonymous"; I'm definitely hoping that's not what you meant :-)

back on topic; yup, when I look at most people's disaster recovery list, it also matches my kitchen stores and camping gear. This is great because it means you have an incentive to keep everything up to date. As perpenso posted below, using your normal supplies is the best way. It means that you don't end up with a big pile of outdated stuff.

Re:Gotcha beat

[Penguinisto]

Not sure how far an eye patch or peg leg will get you. You'll also not really do much more up here in PDX than blend in... :/

http://www.sca.org/
http://www.dresslikeapirate.com/

sad story about old people in Japan

[peter303]

Japan's population is almost one quarter over 65 and most of them live on their own or with family (not institutions). A story in todays NY Times said the elderly have been most likely to have been stranded in their homes where there is no power or heat and running out of food. They either cant drive or get to stations before the gas ran out.

People who are marginally self-sufficient in ordinary times can suffer in extra-ordinary times like these.

Mostly don't let inventory get to zero ...

[perpenso]

As a California resident there is a genuine necessity to be able to handle a week or so on your own. It can be mostly handled by not letting your inventory of normal items get to zero. Depending on your family size have an extra case or two of bottled water, 3L per person per day. If you need one for reserve then buy two. When you consume one through normal activities buy a replacement. This way you always have 1 to 2 available. Also keep 1-2L in your car in case you end up having to walk home. You can also do something similar with soda and ice tea purchases, have a little extra. These comfort-drinks can offer a little morale boost when you are waiting a few days for the utilities to be restored.

Similar story for soups and other canned food (and of course a manually operated can opener), snack/energy bars, etc. Buy some more cans/bars when you get halfway through your normal inventory. Similar story for paper plates, bowls and towels. Similar story for a bottle of hand sanitizer (use instead of soap to conserve water if necessary). Also keep are few snack/energy bars in the car with the water.

Similar story for the charcoal briquettes for your tailgating and backyard BBQs. When the power is going to be out for a few days you don't start eating your canned soups and baked beans, you start barbecuing any meat you have in the freezer.

Similar story for trash bags (they may need to become your toilet bowl liners when water is out), have an extra box of them plus an extra package of toilet paper and a second bottle of hand sanitizer (one for food plus one for toilet - don't share).

Your home should already have a first aid kit, fire extinguisher, flashlight and a wrench to turn off the gas line to your house. I suppose to get all survival kit'ish you should get a battery/crank radio that gets AM/FM/NOAA weather band. And of course repeat the previously established pattern for batteries, buy replacements before you run out. Have a flashlight that uses the same batteries as your remote controls.

I think that largely covers it. Personally I'd be a little more comfortable since I occasionally do overnight backpacking trips so I have that gear as well. When I buy dehydrated food for such trips I tend to buy a dozen packages at a time since there is a price discount for doing so. A dozen packages will last about two years but the packages last five. Obviously these can also be used in a disaster. I get your general point to a degree, you do grossly overstate it though. I've smiled as the person in front of me, who will never do anything beyond car camping if that, is buying dehydrated food packets and coast guard approved water packets for their earthquake kit. However I would never share my thoughts with the person. If having some specialized stuff from the camping store makes them more comfortable than having day-to-day items from the grocery store that's fine. Feeling prepared is good and they are doing far better than the folks who give it no thought at all.

Re:talking about data how safe are the data center

[Richard W.M. Jones]

From my experience, I've seen data centres that have two supposedly redundant power supplies (usually this just means two paths into the data centre from the same supplier).

It seems unlikely/improbable to me that a data centre could be supplied from local diesel generators. The power consumption is just far too great. So your answer is "not safe at all".

Rich.

Here is my list

[ShanghaiBill]

Home:
40 cu ft Pantry full of food
5 gal jug filled with dried beans
5 gal jug filled with rice
8000 sqft backyard garden (mostly root crops this time of year)
5 x 5 gal jug filled with drinking water
half a cord of Firewood + ax and bow saw for collecting more
Several sacks of charcoal
Spare tank of propane
Box of candles
Large first aid kit
Iodine tablets
Fire extinguisher
Deep cycle battery + trickle charger + inverter
Large toolbox full of tools
Rechargable flashlights in every bathroom
A fireproof safe, bolted to a concrete floor, containing:
Original copies of important documents
Several USB drives with backups
Cash, other valuables
AR-15 assault rifle + 500 rounds of ammo + cleaning kit

pockets:
cellphone (the lcd screen can be used as a flashlight)
fine tip sharpie pen
on keychain:
4GB USB thumb drive
mini leatherman (scissors, knife, tweezers, screwdriver)
screw top tube containing:
needle+thread, safety pins, waterproof matches,
asprin, antibiotic pills

trunk of car:
Jumper cables
flares
First aid kit
Water
Breakfast bars
plastic bags
duct tape
epoxy glue
needles / thread
parachute cord
pliers
screwdrivers
scissors
$200 in twenty dollar bills

Re:Here is my list

[benjamindees]

Box of candles
Deep cycle battery + trickle charger + inverter
asprin, antibiotic pills
Jumper cables
duct tape
$200 in twenty dollar bills
matches and lighter
chopsticks
sunglasses
unwaxed dental floss (a good all-purpose string)
vaseline

*sigh* Do I really even have to say it?

Re:Here is my list

[bill_mcgonigle]

How do people get doses of Tamiflu? Is it through "back channels"?

One way you could do it would be to get the flu, beg your physician for a prescription, get it filled, pop it in the freezer, then stick it out like everybody else does. Perhaps wise, if you're worried about a deadly bird flu.

Re:Here is my list

[shikaisi]

Shoot! A fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.

Re:Here is my list

[quenda]

What? No shortwave or CB radio?

Re:Here is my list

[jafiwam]

"A full tank of gas, it's dark out, and we're wearing sunglasses."

Saskatchewan: Safe and Boring

[recoisiche]

I live in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (population 224,300). Here we like to complain about winter a lot, and how hard we have it, and how tough we are to get through it.

Truth is, Saskatchewan's pretty much one of the safest, uneventful places in the world to live as far as large-scale disasters go. We don't have earthquakes, we don't have volcanoes, and the nearest ocean is about a thousand miles away. We get the occasional tornado, but rarely do they do tons of damage (the deadliest killed 28 people in 1912). A couple years back we had one of the biggest blizzards on record, with two fatalities. Sometimes it rains a bunch, and in the 80's a person drowned in a flooded underpass. That's about it.

How prepared am I for a major emergency? I rely solely on tap water, I have a couple cans of tuna kicking around, and I generally drive my car until it's almost out of gas before filling up. In short, I'd be totally screwed.

Re:talking about data how safe are the data center

[kiwi_fb]

Posting from Christchurch New Zealand. I can talk about a data center here. The recent earthquake was the second one. We had a first one last September.

Last September the UPS lasted until the diesel generator kicked in. There was never any downtime, that includes the BlueGene/L. Not sure how long the fuel was meant to last but it was enough.

February's earthquake was another matter. There is now a 5mm wide crack in the middle of the data center (extends about 20m on each side of the building). This generated dust, the automatic system were triggered as for a fire and air conditioning was cut off immediately and then the systems were shutdown automatically in the next five minutes. The gas to extinguish fire was not released, we are not sure why yet. The fuel was not useful at all last February.

Re:talking about data how safe are the data center

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Your experience is limited. Of course there are generators large enough to run even the largest of datacenters indefinitely--provided fuel source and modulo generator reliability. But their power output is not a problem.

http://www.manliftgroup.com/manlift_News_PG.php

Um. No.

[waldoj]

Congratulations, you found my home address in...er...1992. Now you just need to create a time machine!

Flood and Forest Fire

[waldoj]

Well, flood and forest fire, yes. My home has a galvanized aluminum roof and is clad in cement fiberboard, so forest fires aren't liable to affect me. And my home is cited on the slope of a mountain perched between a pair of ravines (not that severe, but you get the idea) down which water drains, so flooding would require that the sea level rise a thousand feet. :) Both of these are steps that anybody can and should take when siting a home. The mountain range I'm in hasn't been seismically active for millions of years, so earthquakes aren't a concern.

But we didn't spring for the astroid or volcano-proofing. :)

Re:talking about data how safe are the data center

[Richard W.M. Jones]

My experience is in data centres that I've seen and visited, not in power supplies. Show us a significant data centre that promises to run the whole thing from diesel generators.

Rich.

Re:My gear

[burisch_research]

2 Lifesaver bottles. 6000 liter variety..

I'll bet. That's 12 tons of water alone ... my you're fit.

Logitech

[louic]

I've got a mouse with a battery that lasts for hours, and can be used on any surface because of its dark field laser technology. That should do it.

electricity and oil

[xj9578cd]

I have a small but good solar panel to charge batteries, cell phone, laptop, 12 volt batteries, etc. Most yachting or RV supplies are good for survival. I know how to crack WIFI keys as well, in case the government shuts off the internet, and only a few networks are running. I have also practiced living in an apartment without a fridge. For one winter I went completely fridgeless and ate only dried beans, dried tofu, and dried rice, and kept juice boxes and stuff in a dry pantry, One needs to eat Vitamin B12 if one has no meat. Vitamins are good to have on hand. I also live without a car and ride my bike everywhere, so I dont need gasoline generally, and have a lot of practice collecting things and shopping while carrying items like groceries in my bike basket. At one point I have lived in a squatted building in Berlin Germany without heat or electric. We had a natural gas cannister for the stove and I stole wood from construction sites to burn in a coal oven for heat. I also consider it a matter of ethics that I dont rely on any mainstream culture, like I use Linux instead of windows and know how to fix computers, and also learned Esperanto. I currently live in Portland Maine.

I guess you've never lived in a major US city

[unassimilatible]

After its sports team wins a championship, let alone experienced a major disruption like the Rodney King riots in LA. We have a lot of knotheads here in the US just waiting for a reason to be knotheaded. That's what hollowpoints are for.

especially if you started breeding them?

[HornWumpus]

I'd think that would be a job for the bucks.

Getting caught with a dead doe would likely be serious a few years after.

Sounds like you are overdue

[unassimilatible]

Enjoy the meteor.

Re:Sounds like you are overdue

[camperdave]

There'd be more damage caused if the Maple Leafs ever won the Stanley Cup than a meteor could do.

As a NZ Quake Survivor...

[ThePeices]

I live in Christchurch, New Zealand, where we had the damaging 7.1 and 6.3 quakes. I can tell you from personal experience, having an up to date survival kit is essential. Or multiple ones spread out in various locations in case you cannot get to it.

It doesnt take much time, effort or money to get yourself prepared, and I found that having a wind-up radio/torch, plenty of water, food etc made all the difference. If you have one, a tent would be a good investment. It depends on your location. A wind-up or solar powered cellphone charger would be a good idea too, we found the cell networks held up quite well considering the load and lack of power.

Judging from Slashdot comments, I guess the Americans would probably want to add a few shotguns, pistols, maybe an assault rifle or three, and a backpack full of ammunition into their kits too. Upon second thought, maybe a sniper rifle ( or hunting rifle if you cant afford one ), a few grenades and kevlar armor wouldnt go amiss for them too. Do you guys have a need for anti-personnel landmines and anti-tank missiles yet? If so, add that to your survival list too.

Re:As a NZ Quake Survivor...

[ErikZ]

What kind of grenades? Flash-bang, Smoke, frag?

All of the above?

Also, land mines are useless unless you're in a war zone. Either there's too much population around and they'll go off, or you're in the country somewhere and a deer will set it off.

Anti-tank missiles are too expensive. You'll want to look into an alternative. Unless they're sending a heavy tank after you, a .50 caliber rifle might do the trick.

Oh, I see. You're joking. Well, part of disaster preparedness is thinking about stuff like this instead of just brushing it off as ludicrous.

the basement is where all the data / power lines c

[Joe The Dragon]

the basement is where all the data / power lines come in at and it's a lot easier to add power / data links to the lower levels then running them up to the top.

also it's cooler down there

Only in Slashdot... Data before Family

[DontScotty]

"How prepared are you to do deal with a disaster affecting your region? Is your data safe? What about your family?"

Only in Slashdot would the safety question be asked first about data, then about the family!

And it won't matter

[Cyberax]

And it won't matter. If it's a natural disaster like in Japan and you are forced to move somewhere with a lot of other refugees, then your guns will only weigh you down and probably cause unnecessary tensions in relations with other people. Would you allow some stranger to sleep in your house if they carry a small arsenal?

And if it's a Mad Max scenario then your toys for shooting cans are worse than useless, they'll mark you as a good target for robbers and local gangsters. Your best bet is to forget everything and join the military (or whatever replaces it) as soon as possible - there's a strength in numbers.

It's possible that you'll be able to organize a self-defense committee, but it's far from certain and requires people with good leadership skills.

Have briefcase, will travel

[l0ungeb0y]

I have a nice leather satchel style briefcase. It converts to a knapsack via a D-ring on the top, under the grab-handle.
It is made from 3 pieces of 1/8" thick full-grain leather, no snaps or zippers, oversized leather outer straps to accomodate extra cargo such as a tent or sleeping bag. I've carried 50lbs of gear in it on 12hr long hikes and if necessary, can live out of it. It's built to last 100 years and is guaranteed for that time. In it I keep my laptop, a 1st aid kit, field glasses, LED mini-maglite, umbrella, magnesium fire-starter, radio, compass, watch and flask.

My briefcase goes with me wherever I go.
I am always prepared. That was half the reason for buying it.

A Country Boy Can Survive

[wynand1004]

"I've got a shotgun, a rifle, and a four-wheel drive. A country boy can survive." - Hank Jr.

Re:talking about data how safe are the data center

[Dan541]

In chaos you can probably just bulldoze your own anyway. They might even think you're a part of the clean up effort.

Can you band together?

[dbIII]

How about you and everyone that lives around you standing between yourself and chaos? That's what happens when everyone pulls together after a disaster.
What you are describing might make a good movie and may appeal to anarchists but would be a pretty shitty life.

Then again, failure of less fit members to survive might not be such a bad thing for our species.

No more babies then? You really haven't thought this through very well and have instead gone for the romantic anarchist "I can be a hero" script.

The Hexayurt and Simple Critical Infrastructr Maps

[vkg]

The hexayurt is an ultra-simple geodesic dome design ideal for mass production in an emergency - just straight cuts with a table saw across plywood, or hand cut insulation boards. They're all over Burning Man but ideal for serious work too

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/03/17/hexayurt.html (public domain, too)

Simple Critical Infrastructure Maps
http://files.howtolivewiki.com/Dealing%20in%20Security%20JULY%202010.pdf
is a CC-licensed infrastructure mapping tool which has been partially adopted by the US .mil community for teaching disaster response. Can be really useful for understanding what you actually need to prepare *for*.

LDS folks are trained to keep staples for a yr

[LandGator]

LDS churches program their congregants to keep a year's worth of staples on hand, plus there are larger secret storehouses.

Emergency Preparedness Checklist

[janwedekind]

It's important that the emergency services can rely on citizens to be autonomous in terms of food for a certain amount of time.
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/epc.pdf

Re:talking about data how safe are the data center

[quetwo]

Data center not too far from my house has the capabilities to run their entire center off diesel generators. They test it once a month. http://www.liquidweb.com/datacenter/datacenter3.html

Downloaded

[Frankie70]

You probably downloaded it from here

Quite Simple, Actually?

[IonOtter]

Don't panic.

If you keep calm enough to think logically, you can survive any event that doesn't immediately remove sufficient body mass to cause death within 24 hours.

This has been demonstrated over and over again, from tens of thousands of "survival stories" from all cultures, all walks of life.

If you'd like a serious education in this, look up the Ray Mears Collection on various torrent sites.

No matter what knowledge you carry with you, and no matter what tools, weapons or supplies you might have: if you lose your calm, you are dead.

Anything after that, such as stockpiling or prepping an emergency kit, is just making the ordeal that much easier and more comfortable.

am I the only one?

[Nyder]

Who enjoyed those books where pretty much everyone else died in the world and you were left to fend for yourselves?

Always thought that would be paradise/heaven/utopia.

Probably explains why I am a loner.

Re:Drop your f***ing gun and get a shovel

[shinehead]

Maybe you live in an ethnically/culturally homogeneous place. In the U.S. this "give us your huddled masses" bullshit has left us with a polyglot rabble and NO sense of community. On top of that add the "me first" individualism that everyone wants to adopt. When it hits the fan don't mess with me, one of my weapons is belt fed.

Secondary financial disaster

[beachdog]

Most of us will be on the edge of a disaster. I mean, the worst of it will be 20 miles away.

The background fact, not much reported is big disasters have a multi-year time span.

As modelled by the hurricane damage to New Orleans, the time span of the disruption is years for many affected people.

Modest home reserves will ease the 1 week food and water problem.

For my household, the really big problem will be to keep making mortgage payments if either wage earner loses a job.

The stupid over priced California housing market for the last 10 years is a secondary financial disaster ready to spring into operation as soon as an earthquake knocks down a freeway or a bridge.

And the miserable thing about the secondary financial disaster is when you miss 3 payments in a row, your home equity is about to be wiped out. No crash, no boom, no drama. Just a foreclosure.

I have been playing around with using 1% savings and loan banking as a way to de-leverage the single family home business. Get out from under the mountain of mortgage debt in an orderly and legal way.

http://talkabout.hmbreview.com/topic.php?t=7101&c=10&d=

Re:Drop your f***ing gun and get a shovel

[penix1]

mighty broad brush you got there sparky. Not all of the US are full of self-serving asshats like yourself. There are many communities here that do care about their neighbors especially in rural areas. Snobbery aside, I would venture to say that US citizens in general are a generous and compassionate people. Try not to prove me wrong on the m'kay...

Re:talking about data how safe are the data center

[mrand]

I never understood why management isn't in the basement and IT infrastructure on the top floor. It makes a hell of a lot more sense.

Because management gets to decide what goes in the basement. Why would they waste a perfectly good view by giving it to the servers and routers?

      Marc

Prepared?

[MrMacman2u]

I'm not "prepared" for a disaster in the truest sense of the word. "Prepared" alludes to the fact that some conscious and extra effort has been taken in order to have something to "fall back" on when you are hit with the unexpected.

I think the better word for me is simply "ready".

I grew up in a rural area and was often out in the woods or field without proper tools or away from modern conveniences so I began to develop what I later learned is called an "Every Day Carry" and just made having a wide and flexible variety of tools and supplies constantly ready and always available.

Right now on my person I have an iPhone 4, a 3" lockback pocket knife, small bags, a spare key in my wallet, my wallet, chapstick (shut up lol!), 50 feet of paracord, and a very compact belt sheath holding a leatherman, a 16gb usb flashdrive, a 700 lumen LED flashlight with spare battery and a small waterproof bison tube with needle, thread and firesteel...

I cannot be found without these items so long as I'm clothed. While my car and home is better equipped, if I was suddenly thrust into the middle of nowhere or into a disaster situation, I'm already carrying 99% of what I need to make it indefinitely assuming ANY resources are available (ie-game, trees, water) using what I'm already carrying and survival skills that were learned growing up.

Everything else extra is just frosting on the cake of survival.

Re:talking about data how safe are the data center

[heypete]

Hurricane Electric ran their Fremont datacenter on generator power for about one week during power equipment maintenance by the local electric company (evidently power was going to be unreliable for that week, so they opted to run full-time on the generator rather than switch on and off frequently), according to a rep I met with several years ago. He claims they burned through about 5,000 gallons of diesel during that time.

Their generator is big.

Priorities

[anandy]

Our city will be decimated in an earthquake but the local gov't is quite good at building nice bike lanes. Local experts claim that our bridges, schools, and many downtown buildings are toast after an earthquake yet nobody seems to be able to do anything about it.

Who Could Argue?

[__aasofm1588]

I tried to discuss disaster preparedness with my friends: they balked and reared like I was going to bunker down with an ammo and gold cache in Montana. Why do people spend more energy arguing against preparedness than it would take to buy some jugs of water and a box of non-perishables? My wife and I took a CERT training course and point anyone who'll listen to http://www.ready.gov/ and http://72hours.org/. I backup non-confidential medical records on Google Health (www.google.com/health/ - useful when going to different providers) and put my pets' records on an old thumb drive.

Re:Who Could Argue?

[ErikZ]

Because it's like trying to talk to a kid to be prepared that Mommy and Daddy could get into a car accident and die.

They don't like thinking of the implications of water/power failure.

I am always prepared Arctic Desert Jungle

[NSN A392-99-964-5927]

Basically if the entire world blew up and my house fell down I have enough kit to help at least 4 people survive without any trouble whatsoever. Mind you I am trained in Arctic/Desert/Jungle so I can live in extreme circumstances and have kit always there.

Like Ray Mears I know my beans so if you really want to know how to survive, get someone highly qualified to take you out to the wilderness with just the clothes you are wearing for two days. Learn off the bushmen, tribesmen, aboringinal's, indian's etc. If in the USA go to Montana and stick it out or a winter in Yellowstone National Park.

I have been all over the world and learned key skills and very highly trained in a Military sense. and yes Rambo is a pussy, so go to West Virginia and learn some phat skills with the Navy Seals.

Have fun, learn and then realise a lot of things you have in life for comfort means nothing. Happy hunting!

ARE YOU A SCHNEIER?

[RichiH]

ARE YOU A SCHNEIER?

(No one will get that one and I burned 5 mod points just to post it. I laughed to myself, though)

8. Slashdot mod points

[munch117]

For modding up well-informed posts like the parent.

Living in a Hurricane zone...

[VoiceOfSanity]

I have usually been quite prepared for a disaster, consider the number of storms that I have been through. From Hurricane Betsy (1965) and Camille (1969) to more recent storms such as Hurricane Ivan (2004) and Katrina (2005), you learn that being prepared is always the best plan. For example:

Living in northwest Florida, there are not many routes that can take you out of a potential hurricane landfall area. You have Interstate 10 and US 90 and 98 that go east-west, but the only major roads north-south are either past Tallahassee or Mobile. And by major I mean Interstate highways capable of handling some of the traffic levels you can see during an evacuation. For New Orleans and Southeast Louisiana, evacuation routes can (and do) become over-saturated, and you can find yourself going only 80 miles in 12 hours if you wait too long.

If you decide to stick it out, you're better off having already stocked up on supplies, such as water, canned foods and other essentials for surviving the storm. Owning a gas-powered generator means also having some gas stored somewhere safe, to provide power for the absolute essentials (and I'm speaking of power to run the fridge and a fan for cooling, not your computer system here.) Oddly enough, cellphones will become useless as many towers will be damaged or destroyed by the storm, but a land-based line (the plain old telephone) will continue to be available.

Once the storm is over and you're stuck in that time between services being brought back up (power was out for a week during Ivan where I was living previously) you can try to get additional supplies. Some stores will manage to get back operational such as Wal-Mart and Publix, but with only limited offerings to the public. And you will have disaster relief services coming in such as the Red Cross and National Guard, bring in supplies such as bottled/canned water and MREs. Just don't count on them as your sole source of supplies, however.

Unfortunately, you also have to deal with your workplace, and depending on the kind of business they are, you might be required to be back to work within days of the storm passing. In my case, Ivan passed on Wednesday night and Thursday, and I had to be back to work on Monday to help in getting the worksite back up and operational.

I've moved since then to the Texas coastline, which means I still need to take precautions for hurricanes. Can't seem to get away from the Gulf...

Re:Ah. Survival. - the longer term view

[shomon2]

I think the problem is long term survival - finding ways to meet your needs with something other than supplies or guns. If just you are lumbered with lots of stuff, or lots of weapons there is going to be someone stronger than you or someone who will work day and night to get what you have, but if you have skills and knowledge, you are better as a friend to these people. So here is your list but with some inventions and ecological solutions I've seen used a few times in open hardware/green circles, where a lot of the idea behind it takes from open source directly - the idea that you have to share knowledge openly:

Blankets/sleeping bags: learn to sow, knit, weave old clothes to make new ones, or get inventive with plastic bags or tyres to make woven baskets and footwear. You can make plastic bags into a waterproof coat if you iron the bits together wrapping them first in baking paper. Tyre is really durable and can get you really far making stuff with it. All you need to make shoes is a relatively varied amount of them, inner tubes are nice and soft, a sharp knife and some nails. If it is really wet and you need impermeable footwear, bags to the rescue again: just wrap your socks in plastic bags and they will stay dry, avoiding infection, trenchfoot etc in a wet/flooded situation.

Drinking water:make a freshwater filter - all you need is sand, stones and somewhere for the water to pass through, in hot places using solar ovens to boil your water (and to cook food without needing to cut down a forest a year just to heat food), also I hear there are simple ways of preparing water for drinking by just leaving it closed in a plastic container in the sun for a couple of hours.

Food: organic and permaculture based farming. Permaculture is more of a way of designing a way of living - with limited resources, and it's what was famously used in Cuba after the USSR collapsed and no more food or fuel was available from there. They all lost weight but by embracing this and doing without fertilizers they still managed to avoid mass starvation and everyone was relatively comfortable, and a lot better off once the organic harvests kicked in.

Ovens: the simplest indigenous ovens are just a hole in the ground with a fire on the bottom, that you puyt the food in and cover up with leaves and earth(kind of a slow pressure cooker), but you can also, with some practice, make a kiln - a bread making oven made out of mud, which will last about a week, and produce some tasty stuff for quite a large group of people...

Refrigerating food so it'll last longer: a couple of clay pots and water will produce a nice effect where the sand absorbs the heat from any food you put in the smaller pot: put the small pot inside the big one, fill the rest of the big one with sand, and pour some water in with it. The water will evaporate and the sand will get a lot cooler. So you have a little refrigerator. Keeping your stuff in a cool dark place can achieve the same effect, but the pots idea is much more lightweight and mobile.

Lights: solar lights(the garden ones for example are usually to be found quite cheap), windup lights, small LED circuits that you can make yourself from sites like instructables or make magazine, a few carefully placed mirrors can bring lots of light to a room so that you don't need to rely on electricity working all the time or on having enough money to pay the bill. A couple of medium sized solar panels and a 12v battery from a car can give you lots of much needed electric power for night time lighting, recharging devices and all kinds of other uses.

Cooking: again solar ovens are brilliant and aren't only good for producing drinking water, but also for slow cooking some brilliant meals. Instructables this week is showing off a permanent design for one that rotates to follow the sun all day. Wood gas heaters are easily made from tin cans and some old newspaper or some sticks. It doesn't use up loads of fuel (which is fossil based anyway so creating more catastrophes the more you burn it, and li

Emergency prep fails in a national psychosis.

[thumper666]

My ancestors escaped Russia in pre-WWI, because they saw which way the wind was blowing. If they had followed the advice of "survivalists" and "emergency prep gurus", including those in this thread, they would be dead.

The thing that no one (and no one in this thread talks about it either) talks about as a component of emergency preparedness is having infrastructure in another country to sustain you: bank accounts, storage lockers, businesses, and a second passport to get there. A storage locker in a foreign country can run as little as $20 a month, and a foot locker in a friend's garage there often is free. For as little as $500 you can have an entirely separate life to get to in the event your current country goes psychotic - and yet no one does this.

"Bugging in" doesn't work if the local disaster is longer than 3 weeks in length as you become a target after local supplies are exhausted.

"Bugging out" to the countryside doesn't work either, as then you're more isolated and are a target as well.

When my ancestors saw the conscription and farm confiscations, they set up a base of operations in Chicago with distant relatives. They had a trunk pre-packed in the cellar. When the government came to town and started grabbing all the males for the army, they grabbed the trunk, hopped a boat, and were running a successful butcher shop in Chicago three months later. Everyone who stayed died or was enslaved - the "bugged in" ones had their houses burned down around them and the "bugged out" ones were rounded up and shot eventually.

Their successful business also allowed my great-grandfather's family to send money and supplies to anticommunist groups at virtually no risk to himself in the US, and they were proud when the USSR finally fell. Their old bug-out trunk is still in my basement, and I have the first money my family ever made in the US hung in a frame on the wall, it's a 1904 Morgan silver dollar.

In another part of my family, all their eggs were in one basket despite being wealthy. They didn't leave the country when the Nazis took power, and as a result half of them died in death camps.

Ham Radio

[waldoj]

That's the one really important thing that you've got, that most others don't—a ham radio. That would be worth its weight in gold in any isolating disaster that lasted more than a couple of weeks.

Re:Ham Radio

[linuxpyro]

That's something you have to be careful about. If you transmit to try to call out for help or to keep in touch, others may be listening in. And while you may not be saying anything that is very sensitive, the fact that you're transmitting could allow people to triangulate your position. If this happens, then someone you might not want to meet could end up knowing your location and that you have a ham radio. I suppose this isn't as much of a problem if you use a directional antenna and bounce off the ionosphere (harder for random people on the ground to pick up), but still something to think of.

On the other hand in a pinch it would be very good to have. And if nothing else, being able to listen in could be vital too. Just make sure you have a backup power source.

real survival

[0111 1110]

The ultimate survival scenario would be something along the lines of a chicxulub-sized meteor/comet strike, nuclear/biological war, a plague, or an extra-terrestrial attack, a food-chain collapse, or some combination of these. The first consideration in such a scenario is to be one of the survivors in the first place. Most people would be dead. An intentional attack, whether from a foreign government, terrorists, or aliens would almost certainly be aimed at the most populated areas. Basically major cities. Just living in any sufficiently remote area would save you from most attacks that are not aimed at destroying either the planet itself (i.e. a neutronium or micro black hole "bomb", food-chain collapsing device or ultra-lethal bioweapon) or all life. Other than a ready to launch self-sufficient spaceship and sufficient advanced warning, there is obviously no defense against destruction of the planet itself and not much defense against any plan specifically designed to destroy all life on earth. A sufficiently advanced alien civilization with the technology for interstellar travel would probably also have the technology to simply sterilize the earth, but maybe not.

If you do not live in a remote area, then to survive the inital blast wave and immediate aftermath of a nuclear attack with high levels of ambient radiation and airborne radioactive particulates you would need some kind of bunker or underground home to shield you from the initial blast and to provide a filtered air supply (which standard home construction is simply not designed to do). If you live on the coast a sufficiently deep underwater habitat may serve the same function and provide even greater protection from the searing heat wave of a nuclear blast.

If you live far enough outside the blast radius that the initial pressure wave is not strong enough to destroy your structure then an above ground habitat with a fully sealed, pressurized, filtered and/or scrubbed environment and lead-lined and/or water-filled walls might be sufficient initial protection. Ideally you would also want an air-lock with decontamination system, a lead-lined space suit and full-faced respirator so that you could venture outside from time to time. The same system would also serve you well in a biological warfare or plague scenario. Perhaps a geodesic dome or igloo built entirely out of lead bricks?

For a near extinction event, maintaining a long term source of electricity would be very important for many reasons. Perhaps the most important would be to power a laptop computer. There would of course be no internet, but you could maintain an up to date copy of vast knowledge sources such as wikipedia, real encyclopedias, and how-stuff-works on the hard drive, the knowledge from which would be indispensable for both long and short term survival. Also a full set of paper encyclopedias would be priceless.

Unless you have the knowledge to find, extract, and refine underground oil reserves (or make bio-diesel) every internal combustion engine on the planet suddenly becomes nothing more than scrap metal. At first glance photovoltaic cells would seem to be an excellent power source in a post-apoc world, but they have some pretty serious problems. The most important of which is that they have a finite and relatively short lifespan. Usually no more than 20 years and often less. They are also extremely fragile and difficult to repair if damaged. Especially with the tools and conditions in a post-apoc world. To have lasting value as post-apoc tech you would have to be able to manufacture them which involves being able to produce silicon wafers and P-N junctions. Essentially you are talking about diode/transistor and overall semiconductor manufacturing methods. OTOH photovoltaics may be the only practical power source in the event of serious environmental contamination where to leave your habitat at all means death. By the time the PV panel dies in 10-20 years it may be safe to venture outside.

Wind and water and steam generators used either as a direct power

Re:real survival

[Paul Fernhout]

See also my own comments here on putting together knowledge about self-replicating infrastructre:
http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/oscomak/
http://www.pdfernhout.net/princeton-graduate-school-plans.html

Others:
http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/
http://lifeboat.com/ex/main

You might like this guy's writing starting from a charcoal furnance to make a machine shop from scrap:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_J._Gingery

Re:Are u mad?

[riverat1]

The main reason the US has so many people in jails is stupid drug laws. I'd bet far less than half of the prison population here would be a danger to the general public because of firearms issues.

More preparedness through SR space habitats

[Paul Fernhout]

See: http://lifeboat.com/ex/main

Or some ideas I was working towards over two decades ago:
http://www.pdfernhout.net/princeton-graduate-school-plans.html
"Self-replicating habitats could be built in space, underwater, underground, in the desert, or elsewhere. A habitat would consist of many square miles of enclosed land used for living, farming, and recreation. Examples of such enclosures are a cluster of kilometer high geodesic domes in the desert, a collection of hundred meter diameter spheres underwater, and a ten kilometer diameter dough nut-shaped O'Neill habitat rotating in space. The land area inside the habitat would have tall trees, and grassy fields. It would be designed explicitly to seem extremely open and natural to the thousands of people living inside. Each habitat would have its own power plant, running from solar, nuclear, or ocean-thermal energy. Each habitat would have attached manufacturing facilities for processing raw materials into finished goods. The raw materials would come from the area immediately surrounding the habitat, like the sea floor, the desert sands, or asteroids in space. Each manufacturing facility would have all the equipment needed to replicate itself and the attached habitat.
    Why do I want to build these habitats? Most people would agree there is at least a one percent chance the human race will wipe itself out within the next century through a nuclear or biological war. The issue isn't even necessarily about our politicians making mistakes. The fallibility of the Soviet missile command computer technicians is what worries me most. Like anyone else familiar with computers, I know how easy it is to make a mistake with one. Beyond accidental warfare, expanding populations and industrial pollution threaten our lives just as much. I feel that even if there is only a one percent chance of ecological disaster over the next century, I want to do my best to ensure human survival in that case.
    Most people do not think about these issues, or if they do, rapidly dismiss the problems as too large and impossible to do anything significant about. I feel I have an alternative to apathy or despair. Some habitats in space or underwater would probably survive a nuclear war. Unlike bomb shelters, they would provide an intact technological and cultural base from which to regrow our civilization. If there is not a war, they would still serve the useful function of providing more living space for expanding populations. Being a closed environmental system, they would also make people focus on recycling industrial pollution back into raw materials, leading to safer industries and a cleaner environment. "

Dmitry Orlov: Social Collapse Best Practices

[Paul Fernhout]

http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/3871142153864194

A bit of history on ISP survivability.

[hendrikboom]

Immediately after the 9/11 bombing one of the main switching centres for one of the larger US ISP's (I forget which one) had its power cut. It continued to provided uninterupted service for 24 hours from battery power. This was a real boon to one of my friends who was visiting Holland. He could find out that is family in New York was OK.