Slashdot Mirror
Facebook, Zuckerberg Sued For $1 Billion Over Intifada Page
An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from ZDNet: "Larry Klayman, the founder of Judicial Watch and Freedom Watch, has filed a lawsuit against Facebook and its CEO Mark Zuckerberg for their role in furthering a 'radical' Facebook Page called 'Third Palestinian Intifada,' which openly advocated another uprising against the citizens of Israel. The complaint reserves the right to be amended into a class action suit and prays for compensatory and punitive damages in excess of $1 billion. ... As a quick refresher, Facebook originally said it would not remove the page but would monitor it instead. The company later pulled the page after discussions degraded into violence and hatred."
This will be tossed out instantly. #1: Where does the amount come from? #2: This random idiot can't sue on behalf of "society" or whatever the hell he's doing. The government, or possibly victims if any violence did occur, would have to do that. #3: I'd bet the farm that there's no proof. #4: Is not blocking hate speech a crime/tort? I don't think so.
Enough already, they are not even funny to begin with. Seriously, April Fools is overrated and the domain of the inferior intellect.
...except for people I disagree with.
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
-- H.L.Mencken
93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
If the Israelis would stop committing crimes against humanity it might be a bit easier to take them seriously. But as it's presently war criminals against terrorists and the people they represent, it's really hard to grant either side any sort of moral authority.
That's pretty much my opinion. I've said it dozens of times in various places: There are no "Good Guys" in this conflict. Only the naive - amend that - only the naive who live protected lives in ivory castles - can believe otherwise.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
the murder of Sabra and Shatila was made Prime Minister. The siege of Gaza is ongoing collective punishment. Israeli forces committed what would be considered piracy if civilians had done it against a humanitarian aid convoy.
Citation needed? More like getting your head out of your ass needed.
Like the GP said, it's war criminals against terrorists.
Perhaps if the Palestinians hadn't thrown their hat in with their Arab neighbors during the 6 day war...then Israel wouldn't need to have war criminals?
Just sayin'....
Course, then I believe the best thing that could happen would be for someone to release a dirty bomb in Jerusalem that would render the whole damned place uninhabitable for 1000 years. Hopefully by that time both sides could either A) not care about the desert shit hole they live in anymore or more optimistically B) we might find proof that all religions are bunk and that all they've both been fighting for the last thousand years is a load of crap.
FYI, Israel started the 6 day war. Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
Cool, so you're saying that so long as people aren't on your side it's ok to commit war crimes?
Maybe talk to the Jews who survived auschwitz about that one. Tell them that it's ok their families were gassed because the Jews were on the wrong side of WWII. Maybe tell the families that survived occupied France that it was just to kill off dissidents because France sided with the allies.
Tell the families of Vietnam that their agent orange babies are cool because they sided with the USSR.
It's easy to shrug off war crimes as "necessary" when you're siding with the ones committing the war crimes. War crimes are war crimes, there's no way to dodge the issue. No matter what an aggressor does it's never ok to commit war crimes.
Arabs in Israel enjoy more civil rights and a higher standard of living than the Arabs living in West Bank and Gaza.
No sh*t, few people in the world live as poorly as those who live in Israel's gutters. The ones you let vote are a minority to those of your specific religion that you've imported from around the world. Even refusing to extradite wanted criminals of Jewish decent who manages to make it 'home'.
If Isreal gave up the "if you're Jewish you're a citizen", and started repatriating Palestinians it might just gain a little credibility. Instead, you'all are locked in a police state mentality. You just can't 'store' the Palestinians in a ghetto, they get pissy and angry, would you if you were in their place? Most of the were born there. It's like a society of angry kids you've got locked in your basement. Maybe there is some way you can come up with a final solution. You've got walls, all you're missing are some ovens.
The Six Day War doesn't matte now. The old rhetoric about driving the Jews into the sea probably doesn't matter either. I think thus far the problem has been :
(a) The Palestinians have never had a really credible peace directed leader.
(b) Israel only rarely has leaders who credibly want peace.
If even a significant minority of the Palestinians were following some strong Imam who preached peace, well that'd likely inspire the Israelis to elect someone sane. Instead : The PLO/PA's leadership focusses more upon their own bank accounts. Hamas' are a bunch of religious psychopaths. Israel's right wing are equally psychopathic. And Israel's moderate politicians cannot retain power without acquiescing to the right.
The wall is helping though.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
He was not responding to "it's really hard to grant either side any sort of moral authority", he was responding to the guy who said "Perhaps if the Palestinians hadn't thrown their hat in with their Arab neighbors during the 6 day war...then Israel wouldn't need to have war criminals?"
Really? I don't believe that, it's easy to take the moral high ground when its not happening to *you*. I can sit there and say everyone should get a fair trial, yada yada yada. However, if my family were ever taken hostage, and I was given a rifle and could take a killing shot, no judge, no jury, no bullshit, there's not a chance in hell I wouldn't take that shot.
Would you?
Now lets look at history and revise the above scenario.
In this case Isreal had experienced over 120 acts of terror against it in the preceding 18 months by the new PLO and had seen major troop build ups and movements by both Syria and Egypt.
SO back to my original scenario, you see someone lurking outside your home with a gun, rapping on the windows and breaking into your car in the driveway. Do you wait until they enter the house and kidnap your family? Or do you act first?
I know what I would I do.....
Palestinians hadn't thrown their hat in with their Arab neighbors during the 6 day war...then Israel wouldn't need to have war criminals?
"Throwing their hat in" meaning what? Fleeing their homes because they didn't want to get caught in a war?
Usually my allergy to stupid becomes more manageable around on Friday around 5pm Eastern... This just sent it flaring up again.
To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.
If Facebook is going to ban one side's speech, let's see them do the same for the others. And yet Facebook pages with such titles as "mavet laaravim" (Death to the Arabs) abound...
Just because you can't imagine ever learning a language other than your own doesn't mean no one else will. A good portion of Europeans speak English to varying degrees, especially the younger generations.
From my experience (I know, citation needed) English is also becoming more and more common in the former east block countries, I have several friends in Poland and Hungary who I communicate with in English.
Myself? I'm Danish, but that doesn't mean I don't speak and understand English. Please take your opinions on only speaking one language somewhere else.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Statements like yours is big reason why this conflict is still raging. As long as the conspiracy theories, omission of facts, and outright lies continue to circulate the level of animosity will continue to grow. Until the Arab's stop threatening Israel's existence there will be no peace. The Arab's initiated this conflict in 48 and then got their asses handed to them in 67 and again in 73. It was in 48 when the Arabs repudiated the UN decision to create the state of Israel and then evacuated most of the Arab's in the expected area of conflict with promises they could come back in a few days after they finished killing all the Jews. Everyone knows how that turned out. The Arab's should have paid lip service to the UN decision at least long enough to work out some type of plan before rushing the war. I'll admit I don't know whether the UN resolution was a good decision or not but time has made that irrelevant today. The fact is the resolution was passed and Israel does exist and I seriously doubt the Israeli's are going to pack up and leave anytime soon. In 48 the world was still recovering from war and the horrors associated with war. The discovery of the death camps was fresh in every ones mind at that time and that generated a lot of sympathy for the Jews and I have to believe that sympathy made a big impact when it came to passing the resolution.
When they said they would not pull it, but would monitor it, they opened themselves up for litigation. This is the sort of thing that's allowed common carriers at least the illusion of immunity from persecution over what goes through their networks. As soon as Facebook said they would monitor it, that was a statement that they are not a common carrier. By "monitoring" it, they assumed responsibility for it.
Bad move on their part, no matter what you might think of the subject.
"I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
You mean, like, siding with those that fight the guys that won your home in an international raffle?
Hey, imagine it's 200 years from now and the native Americans suddenly get a UN resolution passed that kicks you out of your home because they kinda-sorta owned the place some 100 years ago and want it back. Will you side with Canada and Mexico in their battle to kick the Indians butt?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It's not a "getting even" issue. The land belonged to the Palestinians. The British pulled out being unable to come to a happy medium and lelf it up in the air until the newly formed UN created the state of Israel and assisted in expelling the Palestinians. I'm not on either of their sides, seeing as I would prefer a happy medium to be met, but the shit of it is, the western world kicked it off this go-round after WWII and it's understandable that the Palestinian's want their land back.
Statements like yours is big reason why this conflict is still raging. As long as the conspiracy theories, omission of facts, and outright lies continue to circulate the level of animosity will continue to grow. Until the Arab's stop threatening Israel's existence there will be no peace. The Arab's initiated this conflict in 48 and then got their asses handed to them in 67 and again in 73. It was in 48 when the Arabs repudiated the UN decision to create the state of Israel and then evacuated most of the Arab's in the expected area of conflict with promises they could come back in a few days after they finished killing all the Jews. Everyone knows how that turned out. The Arab's should have paid lip service to the UN decision at least long enough to work out some type of plan before rushing the war. I'll admit I don't know whether the UN resolution was a good decision or not but time has made that irrelevant today. The fact is the resolution was passed and Israel does exist and I seriously doubt the Israeli's are going to pack up and leave anytime soon. In 48 the world was still recovering from war and the horrors associated with war. The discovery of the death camps was fresh in every ones mind at that time and that generated a lot of sympathy for the Jews and I have to believe that sympathy made a big impact when it came to passing the resolution.
And if the UN stepped in and took half or more of your country away from you because a western country couldn't control the populace, you wouldn't be pissed off? I'd damn well expect my neighboring countries to step up and defend against an annexation.
While I agree that both sides are not stellar examples of morality, only one of them brainwashes their children. In my opinion, this is sufficient to make it clear-cut.
Yep, and more than that. The victorious Allies felt they had to do something about the attrocities commited in Germany against the jewish people. So they wanted to give them their own homeland. That's great. But they didn't of course offer a chunk of England, or France or the US or even of Germany. They used Britain's colonial power to give them a bit of someone else's land (which admitedly they had historical ties to and substantial moveement wanted back). And then the colonial power left. So a state was created that was surrounded by enemies. It was entirely understandable and predictable that they would be enemies. It was understanadable that the Israelis would be determined to survive. The results are everyone's fault but most of all the Allies who set it all up.
If you live in a country where there's sometimes tensions over immigration then imagine what it would be like if you'd been under the sway of a colonial power for a long time, and that power then decided to take a part of your land and give it as a new country to a group of people who had mostly left the area hundreds of years ago. And then the colonial power left. Obviously everything would be hunky dory - everyone liveing in peace and happiness.
To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
I think they should also sue the ISP used to discover/watch said page, and then also the manufacturers of both the server hardware as well as of the computer used to view it.
They "chose" to leave in 1948? Most were fleeing with good reason. The Irgun Stern (Stern-gang) alone was responsible for killing hundreds of man, women and children when they didn't want to leave. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre . The news of the massacre caused a lof of other people to flee (and probably rightly so). Considering this to be voluntary is... well, I'd do a comparison with the Kristallnacht but that would be a Godwin violation. I think you get the picture.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
Ah... you miss the point of the name Freedom Watch. You see, he's just Watching out so you don't get too much Freedom. :)
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
it's totally all right to, for example, steal more and more land from the Palestinians...
When will the extremists on both sides stop frustrating every step towards a solution...
Privacy is terrorism.
You risk giving the impression that the Allies suggested Palestine, to which the Jews responded "Wow, we never even considered that as a location!!!"
Hence this bit of my post:
So yes, there was a substantial movement amongst the Jewish people that wanted the state of Israel there. But the blame for actually creating a country surrounded by enemies rests primarily with those that did it, not those that just wanted it.
The fact that at least some of those who wanted it felt they had some divine entitlement to the area should have only made it more clear what a terrible idea this was.
To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
This is where you are mixing up the facts and the discussions. The creation of Israel in the first place is not something that should be debated at this point, it was done long enough ago that arguing the existence of Israel is like debating about if the Civil War was justified. Looking at new events as they happen and then discussing who is right or wrong about their actions IS something to be debated.
So, let's look at some of the more recent activities. Israel has made a number of gestures to try to make peace with the Palestinians, and the result was having rockets fired from Palestine into Israel, over and over and over again. Now, if your neighbor kept shooting at your house every now and then, not doing any MAJOR damage, but being a threat, how long would YOU take it before you did something serious to stop it? Would you just buy a gun, or would you go for a rocket launcher and knock down the house next door?
Doesn't matter who started it. It wasn't the Palestinians but they were the ones who had to pay the price of the war. The general notion that all Arabs are the same and that the conflcit is Jews vs Arabs is wrong. The only people who have treated the Palestinians worse than the Israelis are their Arab neighbours.
Football Odds
I don't particularly like a lot of things Israel does, nor do I particularly like a lot of things anyone in their general neighborhood does. Even so, the Palestinians got their land taken.
So?
This is "How the World Works 101". Damn near every country in the world has both taken land and had land taken from it. Every. Country. Why is Palestine so special? Because it happened in the last 100 years?
How come nobody's crying over Hawaii (psst, we straight up stole an entire country, albeit a small one.) The Russians pretty much stole a chunk of Georgia (South Ossetia). I don't see anyone crying over the fact that the Kingdom of Prussia isn't around anymore. And on and on and on it goes.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
The difference is this: if someone was born on some land, they have a better moral case than those who were not.
Israel was recognized in 1948 (or so)... I'm willing to wager that a healthy quorum (if not majority) of Israelis were born there by now.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
And a large number of "Palestinians" were born outside of the country in "refugee camps". Why didn't the neighboring countries accept the "refugees" as new citizens, integrating them into their friendly societies? Especially since the "refugees" were related by language, family (likely) and religion?
By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
I know Palestinians people did suffer a lot (so did the Israelis), but look around us, look at Egypt, Libya, Syria, Lebanon, i promise you, the Palestinians in occupied territories have a lot more rights, freedom and are safer then citizens in this countries.
Seriously, I sometimes can't for the life of me figure if you people are just plain delusional and believe this or if you're lying consciously.
Palestinians did suffer a lot you say. First, I would say "Palestinians do suffer a lot". Secondly, exactly how much land, or relatives have you, or any of your ancestors lost in Israel at any time? Can you provide us with that info?
Thirdly, it's not just Palestinians we're talking about. Last time I did the math, the retribution ratio applied by the government and military of Israel has been roughly 1:400 i.e. for each Israeli casualty (civilian or otherwise), Israel makes 400 opfor casualties (civilian or otherwise). That would include mostly Palestinians and Lebanese in the recent years. Also, what kind of justification have you to give the people of Turkey for the nine Turkish citizens your IDF murdered on the assumption that they we're carrying weapons to Gaza, when all that was found in the boat was kitchen knifes and broom handles? Not to mention stripping European citizens that were on the same boat of all their property and documents, and never returning them? Or running American citizens over with bulldozers e.g. Rachel Corrie or shooting them in the head (see BBC's Dispatches on Gaza)? Were they also security threats to Israel?
Palestinians are seeing their land colonized by foreigners. Which is what most of the Israelis really are to the land they now occupy. They are long past the thinking with brains phase. It's pretty much desperation only that drives them. The failure of your government and society to understand this and apply a suitable solution that would demand compromise of both parts is what has thrown the world into the mess it is now with terrorism. Because of that reckless atitude and the complacency of the US and Europe towards it, no one can travel anymore without being subjected to frisks and detectors and bagage restrictions and x-ray machines. Thanks a lot for that. What I find ironic though is that your heroic founding fathers, never hesitated to blow things and (their own) people up to further advance their cause. Perhaps they didn't blow themselves up like the Palestinians sometimes do. Perhaps they should've. But that's not really convenient to talk about, now is it?
with instead fighting Israeli citizens, a fight they can't really win.
Why don't you people just occupy the damn thing once and for all and have the courage to openly assume that that is what you really want and that you won't stop at nothing to achieve it?
Wow, what a supremely asinine attitude. "It's happened before, so why not let it happen again?"
It is really not such a inconceivable moral demand of humanity that it recognize the ethical invalidity of imperialism and upholding the right of the strong to prey upon the weak. And like all ethical maxims according to which society is carried out, it indeed may not be possible that all nations and peoples act at all times according to these maxims. We can, however, avoid actively sponsoring such violations, and bathing its cause in misappropriated guilt money.
The maintenance of some kind of "moral consistency" is a pretty piss poor reason to abandon the right treatment of people, and the same goes for any fatalist "law-of-the-jungle" rhetorics which uphold such despicable conduct by those who claim to be the more right behaving members of the species.
What country did the UN step in and take half or more of.
I hope to hell you are not talking about Palestine as that was never a country- even. It was a territory under the control of the ottoman empire which ended up in British and french hands due to the league of nations declaration after the ottoman empire disappeared with the ending of World War One. The Balfour decree was already in place circa 1920 so there was never any expectation of Palestine becoming a country to the exclusion of the Jews.
The jews did not lay claim to the land because of WW!!, they did not lay claim to the land because of WWI, And although they do claim it's a religious thing, the ottoman empire has been selling and marketing the land of Israel to the jews since the 1100's. The situation is a lot more complex then it appears that you are willing to examine.
HAMAS just shoot rockets at Israel as this some kind of child game, but it's not a game. and in many cases, it's actually children who shoot the rockets (and miss, because they didn't read the manual? or don't know to read?)
Maybe it's because those rockets are about as basic as one can make them and they lack sophisticated target acquisition and navigation systems? I'm sure that if they had Tomahawks they wouldn't miss so much. Also, the allegation that it is children that fire those rockets is, as far as I've ever seen, just that: an allegation. I've never seen footage of children firing the aforementioned rockets. Or ever seen any Hamas element admitting so. Anyway, even if it is children that fire the rockets (why would people that are willing to sacrifice their lives in a suicide attack put their own children at risk before themselves is something I find mind-boggling and very hard to believe without hard proof) and that those rockets could eventually hit a kindergarten, that is no justification to kill those same children. I'm sure that with all the money Israel spends in weaponry, Israelis could find less lethal defense and deterrent mechanisms. After all, that's what 1st countries do.
I think you (Israelis in general and the ones that govern them in particular. I don't know about you, and I know that there are exceptions - which aren't anywhere as listened to as they should and as the war hawks are) just don't give a crap about the Palestinians and their children. After all, in the diplomatic level, Israel doesn't really give a crap about anyone or anything else, be it UN resolutions or the interests of its biggest ally and financer, or of its most important regional ally, which Israel effectively managed to alienate by unjustifiably killing nine of its citizens. Anything Israel (or Israeli-linked interests) does, becomes a PR nightmare that Americans and Europeans have to scramble to contain and apply damage control to. But I guess you don't really see that, do you? Israel can get along by applying the same recipe it does always: acuse inconvenient critics of anti-semitism and Israel hating. Even falling on the absurdity of accusing Jews and Israeli citizens of that, when they voice their criticism (internationally, as the press in Israel, truth be told, is actually quite free) of how Israel behaves as a country.
Until you people realize that what people hate is not Israel but Israel's atitude of complete disregard for anyone or anything else but their own (short term) selfish interests, or until the West and the US force you to, this is just going to keep going. And everyone, be it Palestinians, Israelis, Americans, Europeans, etc will keep suffering all the consequences of that. Once again, thanks a lot for that.
what you call "disregard" i call just standing for it's self, we won't take every crap US, EU or UN has to throw at us. it's only 60 years ago EU was a Concentration Camp for Jews, and about the same time ago, Black people in the US were still slaves. while the UN did very little to actually solve any conflict since it's creation. so who are you to teach us the rights and wrongs? nobody asked you to "scramble" or "apply damage control" - but it's just probably the right thing to do.
You won't take crap from anyone heh? Who would've said.. Oh, that's right! I said it in my post. I was apparently right. Except that what you call crap is actually called dialogue, negotiation and compromise (and also billions of dollars - is that crap you don't take also? Figured not...) in the civilized countries. But that doesn't really interest you now does it?
So, sixty years ago there was a concentration camp for Jews you say. Well, for starters, nobody's talking about Jews. I though we were talking about Israelis. Unless you think that both are actually the same. But then I find it hard to understand how can the Palestinians live better occupied by a state and people that would never accept them as citizens, because they're not of the same race or religion or whatever it is that makes one a Jew.
And the concentration camp wasn't only for the Jews. You seem to forget about Roma, Communists, and all the other people that also suffered with that. You don't see them occupying other people's land and resorting to violence because of that now do you? What gives you the right of hijacking those people's suffering to advance your cause?
And don't you dare mentioning the Black people. Because they've endured suffering that you can't possibly imagine, for many times the time your country has existed as so. They have endured centuries of slavery and cultural destruction at the hands of many people and nations. Yet they aren't colonizing other people's land. Neither do they use that to make them special victims nor to extort money from others on baseless claims. Even when the ones that colonized their land and made them slaves still keep sucking out their resources they still don't act like your people and your country do. Maybe you have something to learn from them. Let me ask you this: If the Palestinians happened to be black, would that stop you from taking their land just because it was written in some book and you happened to need some? Probably not. Which makes you as bad as those that took the Black People's land.
why should Israel spend even more money on "less lethal defense mechanisms"?
Well, because for starters, it isn't your money. It's mostly the American taxpayers money. So you have a responsibility in spending it for productive ends and not for killing innocent children, women and men. You don't see the American taxpayers money going to Hamas do you? Perhaps that's why they have to literally manufacture their own defense mechanisms. Maybe the US should cut you off as well so that perhaps you could find more productive ways to spend the money your country can generate by itself.
so who are you to teach us the rights and wrongs?
And who are you to teach the Palestinians right from wrong then? Why should they bow to your will when you bow to no one's?
But still you avoid the important issues, as most of your people do. When in doubt, call on the concentration camps and the right of Israel to do anything it wants to. Word to the wise: you now have the upper hand, and the hijacked support of the government of the most powerful superpower in the World. It would seem that nothing can stop you. But no upper hand lasts forever. And when you loose it, people will judge you for the actions you took when you had it. I can guess what judgement they will pass... But then you'll come crying that people persecute you and hate you. No shit... But I guess that's the way you like it huh? An eye for an eye right? I can only feel sorry for the Israelis and Jews that don't share your pride and selfishness and the blindness they bring. For they will also pay for the crimes you are now committing, and that is a real shame.
Well, first of all, let me thank you (no sarcasm now) for a reasonable response. It seems quite more productive now to actually have a discussion with you. Which is really more than I can say about most people that take your side on this issue, if it makes sense to take a side at all.
I think we both explained our views elaborately already and that is a good thing. Others can come, read, and make up their own mind. And your last post actually made some sense and seems to me quite reasonable. I'll therefore just address one issue I think undermines your whole line of thought. I'm not advocating that Israelis (Jews, whatever) are any worse than anyone else. Nobody's perfect. But I do really think that on this issue you're far, very far, from being right. And that worries me, because you seem quite a reasonable person, and I'm inclined to believe that you are actually being honest. So:
UN wants Israel to respect it? they should do something, and that thing is probably stopping Iran first, with force if it's needed,because they gonna bomb the world with nukes with their "holy war" shit, and no body seems to care. Israel won't stand on the side, and let that happen, cause we will be first to get it, and it doesn't matter if you're the US the EU or the UN.
This, my friend, is bullshit. Utter and complete bullshit. Iran is a hostile country to Israel, that much we agree. But Israel is also a hostile country to Iran, that is fact. So what? There are plenty of hostile countries to other countries. Hell, you can probably say that all countries are hostile in some way or another to all other countries. But it is one thing to say this, but another completely different thing is to say that country X wants to "nuke the whole world because they're fanatics".
That's something I've never seen any Iranian official ever say. And I do pay attention , trust me. It's like that other issue about the president of Iran wanting to "wipe Israel off the map". That was a bad translation. Intentionally bad, as it was Memri (check it out on Google please) that produced that translation, and it's quite obvious it's purpose is to advance Israel (or maybe not, I'll explain further along) agenda.
My point is this: You, the people of Israel (well, most people anyway) are being manipulated. By whom? By certain ones amongst yourselves, but especially abroad. What might be called "the Jewish lobby". So what is this Jewish lobby? For starters, the fact that it is Jewish is probably a coincidence, but a fact nonetheless, however, it's not composed of Jews only, many right-wing Christians also make part of it. And I'd say it's a bunch of people that actively profits from the current power and influence it has in Europe, US, and Israel. This might seem far-fetched but it's not. All you have to do is watch US foreign policy closely. But you need to put your Israeli and Jewish pride away while you do it, because that's what they feed on. So what should you look for in US foreign policy? In short: Israel.
Let me explain. If you look closely you see that the US always takes a position supportive of Israel. But that's only an illusion. What the US (and Europe and Israel) does really, is take a position supportive of the so called American-Jewish lobby (see AIPAC). So if the Department of State wants to take a harder approach on Israel in order to force Israel to take less hard-line positions, this lobby immediately pressures the US government and Houses to change that position. But if it is Israel that decides on taking a less hard-line position by herself, guess what the lobby does? It doesn't support Israel on that! It again pressures the US gov. and Houses to make Israel take more hard-line positions. So the outcome is always the same: US putting pressure on Israel to become more and more hard-line.
So these people want you to actually believe that the whole World hates you, Israel, the Jews, whatever it takes to further their cause. But in the long run, this is not in the i
Its not about clean hands...its about who has the aparthied state.
Recall Israel conquered its Greater Israel in 1967 and almost immediately began moving its civilians onto the conquered lands into exclusive Jewish âoesettlementsâ, showing its clear intent to permanently include so-called Judea and Samaria into Greater Israel. It did so in direct contravention of the Fourth Geneva Convention which prohibits such population transfers as well as territorial annexations by an occupying power. It did so in full knowledge of the illegality of such steps as demonstrated by the famous Judge Meron secret legal memorandum.
Why donâ(TM)t we all just cut to the chase and apply Occamâ(TM)s razor to trim as much non-reality as possible from our arguments. Here are my first proposed two Occam-like issue statement simplifications to be used to better frame our arguments:
1. Is it possible to modify the current single apartheid state of Greater Israel such that the former Palestinian possessors/owners could gain either a separate state of their own, or a modicum of basic and essential human rights that would allow them to share equally in the benefits of Greater Israel?
2. Are Jews entitled to an apartheid state of their own to protect them from perceived future dangers of anti-Semitism, or do past crimes against Jews provide sufficient justification alone for a Jewish apartheid state?
3. If Jews are entitled under international law to an apartheid state of their own for either or both of the above reasons, shall this be a generally applicable international legal precedent for oppressed peoples or is it exclusive only to peoples specifically chosen, such as Jews?
The clear reality is this: a single, apartheid state of Greater Israel has existed since 1967, now 44 years. 10 percent of Israeli Jews now inhabit 40 percent of the West Bank and East Jerusalem and have asserted total oppressive control over the lives of the remaining Palestinians who live there. The numbers of illegal settlers and settlements grow rapidly with no end in sight. Ethnic cleansing and violence toward Palestinians, with the protection and enablement of the Israeli government and military continues and expands in parallel. Arguments need to be framed around that existing reality, not hypothetical future outcomes
This is what the Palestenians are fighting over, not hating Israel or some other made for American consumption POV.