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Inducement To Piracy, Adobe Style

S Vulpy writes "A post at the Social Science Research Council's website talks about how piracy greases the wheels of the Adobe Creative Suite marketplace by making it easier to deal with Adobe breaking compatibility between versions. Quoting: '... such incompatibility doesn’t involve exotic functionality, just straight text layout into columns and boxes. The kind of stuff that has been core functionality of publishing software since the early 1990s. Translate this dilemma to Brazil or Russia, where incomes are a fraction that of the US and you get a very simple outcome: massive piracy of Adobe products. In fact, go through this process in the last month of a 4-year project on a deadline and one could understand becoming extremely sympathetic to such a perspective. This, as we’ve argued, is not a defect of the Adobe business model, it is the business model.'"

208 of 272 comments (clear)

  1. Soon by SquirrelDeth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    income in the states will will be a fraction what is was. Who is going to pay Adobe then?

    1. Re:Soon by show+me+altoids · · Score: 1

      Will they? Maybe, but probably not. Happily? No way in hell.

      --
      I feel sorry for people that don't drink, because when they get up in the morning, that's as good as they're gonna feel
    2. Re:Soon by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 2

      Businesses.

    3. Re:Soon by jaskelling · · Score: 1

      Outside of Fortune 500 companies, I'd love to know which businesses can afford to upgrade this stuff on a yearly basis as well. I currently work for a broadcasting & print graphics group and previously worked for a national movie/tv/newspaper company. Stuff like this gets expensed out and depreciated on multi-year cycles. That includes not only the hardware, but the software on them. Because of restrictions involving proprietary software, we're currently standardized on Windows Vista with Office 2007, Acrobat 8, and CS4 products. The only upgrades that occur prior to that happen when a new employee or workstation is required, and they wind up being a guinea pig. Many of the businesses I interact with bitch about upgrading Windows and Office on a consistent basis, and that's not even every year. They're sure as hell not going to upgrade CSx suites every year with their even higher costs.

    4. Re:Soon by Locke2005 · · Score: 2

      Sure, 'cause China has such a well-established tradition of respecting other countries' intellectual property rights! And India has such a tradition of anti-corruption in business. And of course the UAE knows the Koran forbids cheating non-muslims out of money!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    5. Re:Soon by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Wow, you're company springs for Vista with Office 2007??? I'm still running XP with Office 2003 (and constantly receiving documents created with Office 2007 that don't quite format correctly with Office 2003.)

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    6. Re:Soon by Bert64 · · Score: 2

      China have done perfectly well up to now by not paying for software, why would they suddenly start?

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    7. Re:Soon by bberens · · Score: 1

      The plane you're referring to (shredding in flight) was 15 years old. Your hyperbole makes it sound like planes are falling out of the sky in droves. The bulk of 787 orders are coming from Asia because Asia is a growth market, while USA is a mature market. USA is in maintenance mode while Asia is still building up. The US infrastructure has been and will be maintained as quickly as is necessary. In the airline fleet, for example, if passengers are happily flying on the 15 year old planes, why bother buying new ones? It's not like driving around a 15 year old car where you barely do oil changes anymore. These things are refurbished regularly and are in fine shape.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    8. Re:Soon by Altus · · Score: 1

      You really think lawyers are in high demand right now? Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    9. Re:Soon by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      Parent is correct. One of my friends is a fully licensed lawyer who can't find a job. I believe he's currently working at a clothing store. This has been the case for about a year.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    10. Re:Soon by turgid · · Score: 1

      The best quality software is available legally for free and with source code. The quality of commercial software isn't all that great.

      The niche for closed-source commercial software is going to keep shrinking.

      These countries have no need to "pirate" software.

    11. Re:Soon by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      Taxpayers.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    12. Re:Soon by Builder · · Score: 2

      You don't really believe that do you?

      There are still whole industries that are not served by open source software. And in other areas, the commercial stuff is still miles ahead from a UI and usability perspective.

      I love OSS and I make my living from it, but you'd be nuts to believe that we don't need solutions that currently don't have an OSS offering.

    13. Re:Soon by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I am reminded of a supposed Microsoft related quote stating that hey would much rather that people pirate Windows and Office then use Linux and Openoffice.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    14. Re:Soon by exomondo · · Score: 1

      The best quality software is available legally for free and with source code. The quality of commercial software isn't all that great.

      Oh come on...if that were true no-one would be pirating Photoshop.

    15. Re:Soon by Draek · · Score: 1

      $700 every three years still works quite nicely for Adobe, and let's be serious: for better or worse, you ain't switching to The GIMP any time soon.

      Plus, the way I see it they get more money from Fortune 500 companies and the odd pro or two than they would from everyone else if they dropped their prices to $150-200 so no, I don't think they'll be dropping their prices either.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    16. Re:Soon by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      One of my friends is a fully licensed lawyer

      White male?

      Not even a law degree will fix that.

      Because it is well known hat there are no white male CEOs, CFOs or CTOs in the US at all now.
      Stop bleating, lambing season is over.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    17. Re:Soon by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The best quality software is available legally for free and with source code. The quality of commercial software isn't all that great.

      The niche for closed-source commercial software is going to keep shrinking.

      These countries have no need to "pirate" software.

      The thing is, no-one's forcing people to buy or pirate all this terrible closed-source commercial software.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    18. Re:Soon by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Because it is well known hat there are no white male CEOs, CFOs or CTOs in the US at all now.

      Of course there are. The board doesn't want a CxO who didn't go to the same country club as them. But, for appearance sake, you'd better make sure that the lower ranks have high affirmative action quotas, so no one calls you a sexist or a racist (that would be bad PR, and we can't have that). Sometimes you might even promote one of them to a CxO position, but they won't be invited to join the club, so they'll miss out on all of the important decisions.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    19. Re:Soon by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I hope that you aren't in the EU and, if you are, that none of those docs that you are uploading to Google Docs contains any personal information about anyone who has not given explicit permission for you to share it with a foreign company. If not, then you are liable for large fines under various data protection acts.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    20. Re:Soon by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      $700 every three years still works quite nicely for Adobe, and let's be serious: for better or worse, you ain't switching to The GIMP any time soon.

      You're more likely to though. If you're upgrading every year, then the GIMP has to be better than last year's product for you to consider switching. If you're upgrading every three years, then it has to be better than four-years-ago's product, which is an easier goal. This is a big part of the reason why proprietary software companies like short upgrade cycles - it gives the competition less time to copy their improvements.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    21. Re:Soon by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I am reminded of a supposed Microsoft related quote stating that hey would much rather that people pirate Windows and Office then use Linux and Openoffice.

      Well, yes, on the basis that people will buy Windows and Office later on, why wouldn't they say that?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    22. Re:Soon by hitmark · · Score: 1

      indeed, as well as giving companies a incentive to use MS products as people are familiar with them already.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    23. Re:Soon by turgid · · Score: 1

      The thing is, no-one's forcing people to buy or pirate all this terrible closed-source commercial software.

      Yes, but there are a significant number of "ordinary people" (the majority) who have never even heard of Free and Open Source software, and many that have heard of it have never considered trying it.

  2. Vendor lock-in .... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    So, basically, vendor lock-in is good for the vendor, and it allows the vendors to make a new version of the tool which is no longer compatible so that people need to upgrade on a pretty regular basis.

    And, yes, I can certainly see how if the software is going to cost you more than a decade's worth of income or more, you're going to pirate it.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by AdamThor · · Score: 2

      And I guess hope that 2004 is the version that your co-workers decided to keep as well? And that you don't have to get any new licenses because a new member joined your team? B/C each version is fairly significantly incompatible with the others. So says the article.

      --
      -- "Oh. This guy again."
    2. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by t2t10 · · Score: 3, Informative

      That may work if you're a nerd living in your mother's basement. However, back in the real world, people collaborate, and that's when network effects come in: when your customers send you files in the latest format, you need to be able to read them.

    3. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      The problem is ... we get documents from people who have upgraded because they had no choice (a new purchase for a growing company for instance) or because they didn't realize they'd need to save as an older format all the time for people who haven't upgraded.

      It turns into a big pain in the ass, and the end result is you usually eventually end up upgrading just to smooth out the workflow, that costs you less money than time wasted trying to get document in the older format.

      All because its part of Adobe's plan to sell you new software, not because there is an actual reason for the compatibility issues.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    4. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 1

      Argghhhh! Not only am I a pirate but I am expressing frustration with Adobe!

      My family art business has to do a lot of Photoshop work on photographs and uses InDesign for promo material. We also put out a book recently that was almost completely laid out with InDesign. As the IT guy of the business it is my job to make sure that all the hardware and software used for these tasks is functioning. Over the years, we've purchased Photoshop 3, 5, 7 and more recently Adobe CS Design Suite 1 and 2. The purchase of 7 actually necessitated me upgrading an iBook and a Power Mac G4 to Mac OS X because although it did "support" OS 9 it was horribly buggy and slow. Then I had to buy CS1 because 7 didn't like the iMac G5 on 10.3. Eventually the Power Mac was replaced with a Mac Mini G4 and I had to buy CS2 because CS1 crashed a lot in the 10.4 it came with. Next came a MacBook Pro running 10.5. Go figure, CS2 is not supported on Intel Macs (and has been known to actually break their OS). Considering how recently CS2 had been purchased, I was given the green light for an illegal copy of CS3. Of course, for the other machines to be able to open CS3 files I had to install it on everything. Then I discover that CS3 really really hates PPC Macs. After months of trying to live with the issues, I'm forced to replace the Mac Mini with an Intel iMac. Fortunately the iMac G5 is no longer needed, we couldn't have afforded two new Macs. The new iMac comes with 10.6, yay! Except that CS3 has fatal bugs in Snow Leopard. No worries, download CS4 and install. In the process working on another book, we sent a number of CS4 InDesign documents to a graphic designer, who modified them in CS5 and sent them back. *sigh* Off to download CS5 and upgrade again just so we can open a couple layout files... While I was working on the MacBook Pro, I noticed that it now has four different versions of Adobe CS installed on it - CS2, CS3, CS4, and CS5. I tried running the uninstaller for CS2 but it wouldn't launch, just bounced the dock icon for several minutes before disappearing. Good god I hate Adobe software...

    5. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by richie2000 · · Score: 1

      The #1 reason people upgrade is not because the old software was buggy or ran too slow, quite the opposite. Instead, the vendors keep changing the file formats to force upgrades. How is that an obsessive-compulsive problem with customers? Is it an obsession, wanting to be able to actually read the files that people send you? Perhaps being a control-freak dictating what everybody else is using is a lesser evil?

      --
      Money for nothing, pix for free
    6. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by qpqp · · Score: 1

      And to top all this, they STILL don't support case-sensitive file-systems!!!

    7. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 1

      RTFA -- This point is addressed there. It would be all well and good to just keep one version of the software around, but vendors such as Adobe and Intuit go out of their way to break compatibility between versions. If, say, you want to keep your old version of Quickbooks, it will work just fine for you until you decide to share the files with your accountant. If he has a newer version, you are SOL. This is absurdly shitty, anti-consumer business practice and I think the best way to fight it would be for professional organizations representing the trades that use it (graphic designers, accountants, etc.) to try to force better terms on the software companies. Software should ALWAYS be backward compatible with files from older versions, and should have an option to save a file to be compatible with the old version whenever possible.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    8. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by Penguinoflight · · Score: 1

      Adobe certainly has their load of responsibility for this problem but did you really expect to have a smooth operation running a combination of two OS's and two architectures?

      --
      "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
      1 John 4:14
    9. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by Yo+Grark · · Score: 1

      Dunno, took them til Adobe X to fix the f*ckin TypeWriter tool!

      Then they had the audacity to tell me I had to pay another 200 for the upgrade because "it works now".

      If ever I wanted to sue a company......

      Yo Grark

      --
      Canadian Bred with American Buttering
    10. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by FlyingCheese · · Score: 2

      Really? You're going to tag on the cost of CS5 to your clients bill? I don't know what kind of "serious and professional" work you do but if anyone did that in most industries they'd be looking for a new client.

    11. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I don't mess with CS but if its anything like that God damned bastard child from hell QuickBooks there is no way in hell to keep the old version because they tied a bunch of old shit that will NOT run in a newer OS to it!

      I had to set up a ton of dual boots and XP modes around here because QB is God in these parts, and I quickly learned to hate that POS! It ties itself to flash player 7 that's right, flash 7, which is no longer supported and won't run on anything higher than XP. It doesn't matter if you have a newer version either, nope it has to be flash 7.

      So frankly it really wouldn't surprise me if Adobe did something similar. I know I had to build an NOS (new, old stock) PC for a graphics client and set him up a KVM and networks shares, all so he could keep Macromedia Xres going, so it wouldn't surprise me if Adobe (who bought Macromedia) is likely to be just as big a PITA.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    12. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      so shut the hell up, go see some doctor for the obsessive compulsive problem about using the latest and greatest release of all and get the job done.

      In the context of Adobe products, the 'obsessive compulsion' you're talking about is normally called 'keeping a roof over your head'. If I were stuck with the '2004 version' (Photoshop 7, in this case), I'd be behind my colleagues in productivity.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    13. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by Builder · · Score: 1

      What about when you buy a new camera and the only way to get photoshop to open the files is to upgrade? You don't want the features but they don't back port camera raw to earlier versions of photoshop.

      I had all my photography gear stolen and couldn't get the same model camera as I used to have.

    14. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by dave562 · · Score: 1

      He's running a Mac, duh. That shit "just works", or did you not have your daily glass of Kool Aid?

    15. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 1

      To be honest, yes I do expect at least some degree of compatibility flexibility. Hell, until last year we still used the long-deprecated AppleWorks 6 for our database management. That program is seven years old and wasn't the most stable piece of software even when it was new, but it worked just fine on everything from the iMac G3 running OS 9.0.4 all the way up to the Intel iMac running 10.6. I upgraded us to FileMaker (and converted the old databases) simply as a security against a future system upgrade breaking AppleWorks and catching me with my pants down. The fact that when Apple releases a major upgrade to Mac OS X, Adobe's response is not to patch the numerous inevitable bugs and incompatibilities that surface in their existing software, but to tell their entire userbase to wait months until they can purchase an entirely new version of their software that isn't backwards compatible with the last edition. I can certainly see and even sympathize with TFA and OP's view that it's ridiculous to have to pay many thousands of dollars (CS Design Standard is $1299 per license) every year just to keep doing the same thing. I can tell you with absolute certainty that my business does not do anything with Photoshop CS5 that we couldn't do with Photoshop 7. If it wasn't for compatibility issues with certain hardware and other graphics designers, I would love to set the office up with cheap late-generation G4s off eBay.

      By the way, if Adobe was using Apple's APIs like they were supposed to, then I seriously doubt they would be having any significant compatibility issues between major OS versions or even architectures. I know I haven't written a Creative Suite, but I've done my fair share of Mac OS X and cross-platform development.

    16. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 1

      The worst part of that is that by nature of the problem, it means that some developer(s) was/were lazy when they hardcoded some filenames somewhere.

    17. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, the old MS Office file formats issues...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    18. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by adolf · · Score: 1

      That's a strange world you live in.

      Where do I sign up to become a member?

    19. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      3.5 forté

      forté? format? ?

      Never mind me. I'm just trying to figure out what went wrong with your post. It didn't render, but I can't duplicate the problem in the reply..

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    20. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by wwphx · · Score: 1

      A few years back I bought Creative Suite CS3, mainly for Photoshop and Dreamweaver. Later I need to install InDesign, and the DVD has a bad sector and won't install. Adobe won't sell or give me a replacement disc because they're (then) selling CS4 and they want me to upgrade.

      A few weeks ago I buy a new Canon T2i Digital Rebel, they change the RAW format and CS3 won't read it. I finally find a workaround with getting a trial version of Photoshop Elements which will let me save the CR2s in the older RAW format. So at least I can convert. Inconvenient, but it works. It doesn't fix my problem with InDesign not working. Oh, well. I'm definitely not a fan of Adobe's business practices.

      --
      When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
    21. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by t2t10 · · Score: 1

      Oh, please, you don't have discussions about whether you upgrade your software to the latest version or not with customers. Of course, they are going to assume that if they managed to upgrade to the latest version of some software package, you can too. If you try to charge them for upgrading Photoshop or Office, they aren't even going to bother to laugh at you.

      Now, good news is that if you're technically a little savvy, you can usually get by with open source software instead of upgrading to the latest and most expensive version of Microsoft's or Adobe's junk.

    22. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by t2t10 · · Score: 1

      if the customer is changing the version requirements mid project, of course, why not.

      They're not "changing version requirements", they send you a couple of files for you to work with. If they are in widely used formats in your industry, you don't haggle over version numbers because it makes you look stupid. Of course you can open the latest version of every file format.

      make sure to check twice the next time to not look dumb when the client gives you a file you can't open or work with unless you spend additional 2.5k.

      Yes, and you do that by upgrading all your software versions and spreading the cost over all your clients. Simple, eh?

      the client knew about the excruciating pain of upgrading the tools mid project and after the initial (and paid for) tool evaluation phase versions were set in stone.

      Many do, and you can happily commiserate with them and promise them not to spoil their day by sending them versions they can't handle.

    23. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      A couple of years ago, Adobe was reported to be the best tech company to work for. I wonder if this is because, when you're inside Adobe, you don't have to deal with their licensing...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    24. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Companies that try to charge me for bug fixes go straight on the 'will not buy from again' pile. Fortunately, most of them have competitors. I bought Parallels Desktop, and it managed to cause kernel panics in the host OS every few hours. Eventually it turned out that this was because their idiot developers can't read the inter-processor interrupt documentation and were raising interrupts on the wrong core. The solution they proposed? Pay for the next version, which actually does what the version you paid for was supposed to do. The solution I went with? Switch to VirtualBox.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    25. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      if a customer wants to dictate the technology the customer is to provide the required licenses for the work to be done. or, at least, that's what happens when you and your customer are serious and professional about your work.

      Says the obvious fucking amateur.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    26. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what I would do. I run an Open Source shop. If they want CS5, they will have to buy me a copy.

      No client has ever made such a request.

      if anyone did that in most industries they'd be looking for a new client

      "Don't let the door hit you hit you in the ass," would be my reply. I have no shortage of clients.

      I believe you like I believe in the fucking tooth fairy, you utter twat.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    27. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Software should ALWAYS be backward compatible with files from older versions, /quote. I thought that was something everyone here hated about Microsoft?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    28. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I think you need some paragraphing software more than anything else.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    29. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by Builder · · Score: 1

      Yeah - and lose a load of the functionality of your workflow.

    30. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      I've never seen a development environment where that was the case. What type of work do you do?

      *car analogy ahead*

      It would be like me bringing a car to an autoshop, and the mechanic telling me that in order to fix my car, I have to buy him some tools....

      I guess if you work with very unusual software tools, I could see a client providing that software for you, but Adobe products? Anyone web design or graphic design shop that doesn't have a few versions of common software tools like Photoshop lying around probably isn't a very professional organization.

    31. Re:Vendor lock-in .... by sjames · · Score: 1

      That's a part of the problem. The customer doesn't get the option of licensing the old version, they get stuck with the latest and "greatest" even if they would rather be compatible with everyone they work with.

      Somebody gets their costs driven unreasonably high because of deliberate incompatibilities between versions and forced upgrades.

  3. This is why I have given up on Adobe by drdread · · Score: 1

    As a casual user, I really can't justify ponying up the dollars they demand...so I went looking for alternatives. GIMP for Photoshop (recent GIMP versions are very good, BTW), Inkspace for Illustrator, etc. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to move off Adobe's products altogether.

    1. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Compaqt · · Score: 4, Informative

      This. Of course, they're be the usual whining about how Gimp is supposedly unintuitive (i.e., it's not set up exactly like Photoshop), or how it doesn't support color separation for print (even though most people are just using it for web graphics).

      And Inkspace gets better with each version, it's already much more usable (I think) than Gimp.

      If you're a small company, just starting out, and you're not locked into Photoshop for some reason, there's no reason to start producing files in that format. If you're starting up a web-based company, and need to produce some graphics for your website, just create it in Inkscape.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    2. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by hedwards · · Score: 1

      It's been a while since I loaded up Gimp, but they were making strides on making the interface sane. The bigger issues at that time were the tablet support and format compatibility. I definitely remember when Gimp had a terrible interface, it was being worked on last time I used it, not sure how much progress they've made since then.

    3. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by CyberK · · Score: 2

      I totally agree, and with Scribus coming along nicely for your InDesign needs, there really isn't any reason why a "occasional photoshopper" can't do just fine with free tools instead of pirating Adobe. Plus, free software rarely breaks compatiblity without any sort of migration path, so you don't even have worry about repirating once a year.

      Maybe someone should package all these tools into a Free Creative Suite?

    4. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by webrunner · · Score: 1

      Gimp is not just not "exactly like photoshop", it's not layed out like any other Windows application. If you're on Mac or Linux is fine, but someone accustomed to Gimp will struggle needlessly with the (incidentally monstrously ugly [to the point of making it difficult to use]) interface. Gimpshop and gimphoto are fine but are several major revisions behind gimp proper.

      --
      ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
    5. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by charlievarrick · · Score: 2

      Th

      If you're a small company, just starting out, and you're not locked into Photoshop for some reason, there's no reason to start producing files in that format. I

      But when you want to hire employees or freelancers or accept files from clients or send files to a printer or basically do anything beyond doodling in your bedroom you are locked into the Photoshop/Indesign/Illustrator/PDF/EPS Adobe ecosystem because it's the defacto standard in the creative market.

      Which is a main point of TFA.

    6. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 1

      What is your replacement for Acrobat? I would love a nice form editor that allowed me to create a form with editable fields and what-not.

      --
      Loading...
    7. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And that is where the network effects come in. It's very difficult to use Gimp when everyone you are collaborating with uses Photoshop. Openoffice is a good suite, but when everyone else is using Office there will be compatibility issues. There is more software for Windows than any other OS because it's the OS most people use. Being popular is an advantage for software.

    8. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      GIMP looks (and feels) like ass on OS X. And I don't mean Kim Kardashian's ass, I mean Cowboy Neil's ass.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    9. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Microsoft too - students can get dirt-cheap education licences of Office and Visual Studio. It's just a good business strategy - give them the software now, get a loyal customer for years to come.

    10. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by leenks · · Score: 2
    11. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by t2t10 · · Score: 2

      I doubt the sanity of the Gimp interface matters much; Adobe's own interfaces are insanely bad. In fact, if anything, the Gimp interface is considerably more consistent with the rest of Gnome than Photoshop is with the rest of Windows.

      What matters is that it is different from what people are used to.

    12. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      There's no reason to use Python. If you're a small company, just starting out and you aren't locked into Python already, Visual Basic is actually getting really good! Sure it's not setup exactly like Python...

    13. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      they're be the usual whining about how Gimp is supposedly unintuitive (i.e., it's not set up exactly like Photoshop),

      The fact that it isn't setup exactly like photoshop has little to do with it. Photoshop Elements isnt' like Photoshop, but I have no problem using it. MS Paint isn't setup like photoshop, but its usable. Lots of other image editors 'arent setup like photoshop' but they are all usable. GIMP is just a fucking mess and it'll remain that way until you guys get over your denial and the devs make it not suck. Just complaining about the whiners who don't like it isn't going to do anything productive. Hell, now days the UI isn't the biggest killer. Its usable, yes still utterly revolting.

      or how it doesn't support color separation for print (even though most people are just using it for web graphics).

      Yes, for those people with real design jobs, not 'making websites in mommies basement', that sort of thing is rather important. Clearly you don't know what professional graphics artists actually do and seem to think making pretty pictures for web pages is makes you a professional graphics artist.

      If you're a small company, just starting out, and you're not locked into Photoshop for some reason, there's no reason to start producing files in that format.

      No reason at all, except ... being able to share those documents with other people who won't use GIMP for any of the reasons above and god knows how many more.

      You can deny reality all you want, but its not going to make everyone start using GIMP no matter how much you jump up and down and scream about how awesome it is, for most of us, it doesn't fucking cut it. Accept that, fix that, make a tool that fits the job at hand, then more people can use GIMP. Sit around denying it all the time and GIMP will remain an example of what might have been, but never will be.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    14. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      You seem to be ignoring the other parts of the Adobe Creative Suite: Illustrator, In Design, Dreamweaver. I'm no fan of Adobe, but Gimp is merely an alternative to Photoshop and a poor one at that.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    15. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      I tried Gimp out about a year ago and it was atrociously bad. Unusable. I doubt it has radically improved in that short space of time. Still, Adobe's interfaces are bordering on bonkers too. You just get used to it.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    16. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      Hah! on the audio side of things they have Ardour 2 which I found really hard to use. They say on the site that it is "geared toward people familiar with Pro-Tools". I can assure you it is not! Similarly Gimp is not geared toward people familiar with Photoshop. These alternatives which I would love to use and support simply need to be better than they are. I don't expect to see that happening soon.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    17. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by CMYKjunkie · · Score: 1

      I'm a little hesitant to read "Scribus coming along nicely." I use it for a newsletter project I design for a charity (so I do not have to shell out for InDesign, naturally) and I find the GUI performance to be god awful! Waiting for the screen to redraw while scrolling as well as weird hiccups when selecting text blocks makes for a ... challenging... experience. I'm running the latest version on XP, so perhaps YMMV on Linux.

    18. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is HR needs you to have experience with Adobe products or your resume is thrown in the trash. Gimp who what??

      I am starting a business and I hate and oppose piracy. I feel terrible and hypocritical owning a cracked version of Dreamweaver but I need experience in using it in order to not starve. I could try to use Vi and firebug only but if my business fails (90% chance it will, given statistics) then I need to have experience to fall back on. I could use paint.net and get away and *lie* about using photoshop (dishonest as well), but Illustrator is not something you can make up or do without if your future employer sits you in front of a mac with it and says do this by 12:00???

      I am praying for the adoption of html 5 so we can get rid of flash. THis has hurt my ability to earn a living as a web programmer simply because all candidates pirate it and learn it that way and it is a job requirement now to have x years of experience using it for non flash sites. I believe free alternatives are the answer to piracy. Remember people pirating Oracle 12 years ago? How about today? Zelch. People use Mysql now. Also it frees us from Windows to use non propriteary alternatives. But nothing exists that is similiar to Frontpage or Dreamweaver. Gimp frankly sucks. Paint.net is promising but it shows how incompatible Mono is with .NET as it can not be ported to Linux easily.

    19. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Can you recommend a good opensource or cheap replacement for Fireworks that will run fine on Windows? I've tried several options but they were all disappointing against Fireworks.

    20. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Just as a note, I'm using Fireworks purely for web image creation.

    21. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Unlike a mass market product, it gets no benefit from being easy for casual users.

      The interface is optimized for a certain type of workload where you're working with multiple images at the same time, and frequently switching between them.

      If the complaint is that it's ugly, who cares? It's a serious tool optimized for heavy workload. Once you get used to it, and if you're using it heavily, the interface leads to less mistakes of the "wrong image highlighted" type, in addition to being faster.

      It also has much better scripting/plugin support.

    22. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Draek · · Score: 1

      Gimp is not just not "exactly like photoshop", it's not layed out like any other Windows application.

      Neither is Photoshop, Paint.NET, or any other image editor more complex than Paint.

      Face it: the "traditional" Windows UI works for the most basic of things, Office productivity tools and *maybe* IDEs, but anything other than that and it breaks down, poorly.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    23. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Draek · · Score: 1

      There's Inkscape for Illustrator, while for Dreamweaver the best alternative is a programmer's text editor and a brain. That last one is kinda hard to find among "creative" types, though, so I do understand the appeal of Dreamweaver a bit.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    24. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by karmac0ma · · Score: 1

      It's not so terrible if you use a more recent version -- right now, 1.4.0rc1 is the one to go for.

      And regarding the quality of the output, it's good enough to make a magazine with*. Granted, there's a hiccup here and there, but you'll also get that with InDesign -- only with prettier error messages.

      * Disclosure: I'm one of the designers.

    25. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by FlyingCheese · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Ardour is really not as good as ProTools... which is sad because Digidesign/Avid is far worse than Adobe is. Their software is buggy as hell and not at all backwards compatible.

      How ProTools got to be "industry standard" I'll never know, it's a steaming pile of shit.

    26. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      This. Of course, they're be the usual whining about how Gimp is supposedly unintuitive (i.e., it's not set up exactly like Photoshop)...

      I'm so sick of this stupid attitude. I'll make this real simple: GIMP gets these complaints. Paint Shop Pro, Sketchbook, Painter, and a whole bunch of other non-free painting/image editing apps don't. It's not the invention of a legion of crazy people.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    27. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by mathfeel · · Score: 1
      The problem, as addressed by TFA, is often not just what you use, but what your client expect you to use because they use the same thing in house. If Inkscape is not compatible with illustrator-cs#, we get it. But the problem is Illustrator-CSx not able to work directly with Illustrator-CSy. Also mentioned in the TFA, the same version doesn't work across platform because of font rendering issue.

      IANAArtist. But I use inkscape for scalable illustrations to be included in some journal articles. So all I need is something that produce PDF and inkscape never fail me. I used to use illustrator since my department has license. But the licenses are across multiple versions, so an I-10 here on this computer, a CS1/2 over there. I find the same illustration exported in common format like eps, pdf, svg etc by illustrator has many quirks that other software, or just different version of illustrator refuse to render correctly. I see absolutely no reason for that to be the case because features difference between versions are minimal. I concluded that this must be just dick-move on Adobe's part and stop using their software completely.

      --
      The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the 'social sciences' is: some do, some don't
    28. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by knotprawn · · Score: 1

      I have to agree. I was forced to use InDesign (CS5) to design my college yearbook (250 odd pages) because Scribus didn't have any decent themes that I could find (the community doesn't seem very active, at least at providing themes). "Scribus coming along nicely" is hardly how I'd put it. To be fair though, I am spending some time on making my own master pages with Scribus now. I just didn't have the time when I was designing the yearbook, needed to publish it quickly, so I settled for Indesign (shudder!). For the smaller magazines that I design, I use GIMP + the shell (GIMP has improved considerably, in terms of layout of the UI, and the community support in terms of tutorial base and brushes/patterns/scripts available is absolutely fantastic!)

    29. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by linuxpyro · · Score: 1

      Ardour is very nice, actually. I use it regularly, both for practicing (recording myself, improvising over a loop or playing a scale to a drone note) and for recording my band occasionally. I'm not a ProTools user, but it gets the job done pretty well. Well enough that for what I do, I wouldn't consider replacing it with a commercial package. While there's always room for improvement, I wouldn't expect it to be a carbon copy of another program - same with the Gimp (though I would agree the Gimp could use more improvement).

      On the other hand, audio-wise Ubuntu Studio isn't always 'stable', in that occasionally the new release doesn't ship with the realtime kernel (like 10.10...). I've had some FireWire issues with it too, but for the most part if you pick a good release it works well. (Interestingly, I had an easier time getting my FireWire soundcard working on my Gentoo machine, which is my main audio workstation, than on my laptop.)

      --
      Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
    30. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      Have you tried Paint.NET?

      I know, it's not open source, and it's only available for Windoze, but it's pretty darn flexible and there's tons of user support and user-created plugins. And the interface is much simpler than GIMP, I find...

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    31. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by SilverHatHacker · · Score: 1

      /begin humble opinion
      I learned how to use GIMP first. I was once with a bunch of friends trying to edit something. The computer we were using had Photoshop installed, so we opened it up. We all sat there and stared at it for a moment until I realised it was almost the same as GIMP. Ok, maybe not the same, but I was able to find the tools and filters we needed by thinking of where they were in GIMP. So now whenever I hear about how different the interfaces are, I chuckle quietly to myself.
      Yeah, the toolbars are in floating windows. Drag them to the side of your screen and whaddaya know, it looks enough like Photoshop to get by.
      /end humble opinion

      --
      Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
    32. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      GIMP's had PSD support since 2006 at least.

    33. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Sorry, what now?

      I will immediately skip over resumes that mention dreamweaver. Vim and firebug, on the other hand, will go to the top of the pile. In both cases this isn't because of the choice of tool, but because past experience has told me that people that advertise dreamweaver skills on their resume are completely unsuitable for any job position I have open. Gimp vs photoshop is a wash (although I'm weary of the typical "zomg use gimp, it's open source!!!!" neckbeards). I look at what you create rather than how you create it - I'd take a really smart python/perl/ruby/other programmer over a crappy PHP programmer any day, despite the fact that our codebase is 99% PHP.

      Of course, I'm a developer so I actually have useful standards for who I hire. You know - thought processes, reasoning, and results, rather than being a perfect replacement cog for the guy that just left.

      To be honest, either you're overestimating your abilities or applying to the wrong kinds of companies. Probably the former (that's not meant as an attack at all, just an observation as someone that is part of making hiring decisions)

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    34. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by YoshiDan · · Score: 1

      GIMP looks (and feels) like ass on Linux. GIMP looks and feels like ass on every os. That's probably due to the fact that it's a piece of shit.

    35. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by YoshiDan · · Score: 1

      Students don't have to pay for Visual Studio at all. It's available free of charge on dreamspark along with a bunch of other expensive microsoft software.

    36. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by YoshiDan · · Score: 1

      There is no good substitute, open source or proprietary. NOTHING can match up to Fireworks. It really sucks that Adobe bought Macromedia, now they don't give a shit about fireworks and it gets hardly any attention in the newer versions. Even with the Adobe suck factor it is still the best application for website prototyping and web graphic creation IMO.

    37. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      Hey, thanks for the link to your magazine!

      People are hesitant to toot their own stuff lest the anti-self-promotion brigade come and downmod them, but I've acquired a handy collection of useful sites from people posting about their own work.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    38. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      Just a clarification: I was talking about small, new companies that are making stuff and who "need to produce some graphics for your website". I.e., companies that have a business other than print/design but do make use of graphics.

      For professional printers and designers, yes, you get files in Adobe formats, and you need to be able to handle that.

      By the way, could you provide a few specific (common) examples of "how to do X" where it's easy in Photoshop, and hard in Gimp?

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    39. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      Illustrator- Inkscape
      InDesign- Scribus

      Dreamweaver: could you describe how it's commonly used, and how you use it? Thanks.

      Is this how it works: You drag and create a rectangle on the screen with a mouse. Then Dreamweaver sets up a CSS region, and your stuff goes into that?

      Do people attempt to use Dreamweaver to get "pixel-perfect" layouts? Is Dreamweaver the force behind those sites that have fixed font sizes with a ton of !important's or the ones where if do a single Ctrl+= (to increase the font size), the whole layout goes crazy and sidebars drop to the bottom?

      Or, if not, is Dreamweaver just an HTML editor with an integrated previewer?

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    40. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      A followup: the only way to improve software is to criticize it, so, as a user of various opensource programs, I welcome criticism.

      Re: print- it's a must-need for some/many, and yet it's not for others. There are a lot of web-based businesses that are providing services over the Internet, and don't need to print brochures in specific colors. At the most, they might want to have a few business cards, but they can just have those made up at the local printshop for $10 or $20. They most definitely are not a traditional-style corporation with a fleet of travelling salesman with full-color brochures and catalogs.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    41. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Chatterton · · Score: 1

      GIMP's had crappy PSD support since 2006 at least.

      Don't trow stones at me! I use GIMP as my main image manipulation tool. But i really hate when all the vectorial text layers are transformed into bitmaps. This make me unable to edit/update the texts in GIMP without recreating them from scratch. This is why I still have Photoshop on my desk :-(

    42. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      GIMP is far worse on OS X than on Windows. It uses X11, which means that all of its windows have the same type. (Oversimplification ahead) In OS X, windows do not receive an event for their first click, unless they are tool palettes (in which case they are not expected to take focus, so clicks are delivered directly. In the GIMP, both the floating palette and the document windows are treated as document windows by OS X, so to select a new tool you must click twice, then you must click again on the document window to return focus there. Alternatively, you can turn on focus-follows-mouse in Apple's X11, but then you don't need to click to switch focus between two documents in the GIMP. The rest of the interface is similarly alien.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    43. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      As a casual user, I really can't justify ponying up the dollars they demand...so I went looking for alternatives. GIMP for Photoshop (recent GIMP versions are very good, BTW), Inkspace for Illustrator, etc. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to move off Adobe's products altogether.

      Yeah, and as a casual boy racer I really can't afford the cost of a Ferrari, so I bought a thirty year old Ford Escort, an open exhaust pipe and a bodykit and it's good enough for me, so what's the point of Ferraris?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    44. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You can get a version (Gimphoto) whose interface acts like Photoshop's, although why anyone would choose to do so is beyond me. Whatever the power of Photoshop, its interface is sane only for users brought up on Macs pre-OSX. On Windows Photoshop itself has a fair old learning curve.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    45. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Hey, thanks for the link to your magazine!

      People are hesitant to toot their own stuff lest the anti-self-promotion brigade come and downmod them, but I've acquired a handy collection of useful sites from people posting about their own work.

      There's a thin line between self-promotion and downright advertising. Most forums try to stay clear of the latter, it is not unreasonable when people get worried about the former going too far.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    46. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Students don't have to pay for Visual Studio at all. It's available free of charge on dreamspark along with a bunch of other expensive microsoft software.

      Cue the "evil M$ is brainwashing our kids" posts in 3...2...

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    47. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      for Dreamweaver the best alternative is a programmer's text editor and a brain.

      text editors are for wimps, in my day we punched out the 1s and 0s onto cards, with our teeth, and we were grateful if t'foreman didn't flog us to death when we made a mistake, etc

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    48. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      I heard someone else tried photoshop once and couldn't understand any of teh buttons either...

      I'ev used both extensively and just yesterday I walked away from an imac with PS5 to come back upstairs to my XP/GIMP machine as I now find Gimp more usable. The only difference is which you are more familiar with.

      Adobe need to crawl into a hole and die though, their whole business model and suite of products are probably one of the worst things ever to happen to computers.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    49. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Not going to be throwing stones, because I've only imported a PSD into GIMP...once, and the PSD had no text layers, and it worked flawlessly...for that PSD anyway. (was an old 2.2 version too, on a Sony PS2 no less...so I figured PSD support was even better these days) So I didn't know it did that.

      I doubt they'd ever fix that issue, since the GIMP devs consider BIMP a soley bitmap "editor" (Which is why they don't want to add simple drawing tools to it"

    50. Re:This is why I have given up on Adobe by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Evil M$ is brainwashing our kids! But, if I were running the company, I'd do the same. Their first duty is to the shareholders, after all.

  4. Wasn't this Microsoft's business model? by WiglyWorm · · Score: 1

    Seems that this just becomes the standard when you have a stranglehold on the market. Maximize global profits by squeezing every dime out of the rich countries while poorer nations are the wild west.

    1. Re:Wasn't this Microsoft's business model? by rsborg · · Score: 1

      Seems that this just becomes the standard when you have a stranglehold on the market. Maximize global profits by squeezing every dime out of the rich countries while poorer nations are the wild west.

      I was just about to say this. It's also a very 20th century, as times are changing, and power is shifting. Look to businesses that have a grip on wrangling sustainable profit from all regions and not just rent-seeking via platform domination.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  5. I shall keep snagging them by the_hellspawn · · Score: 1, Informative

    Till the price of Adobe's stuff comes down to a real price of $19.99 I shall keep snagging the software for free. I don't profit off of my work, so don't care about licensing. The $600.00 cost is a bit much for programmers tweaking only the tools and changing some icons. The core code was wrote sometime back in the 90's, so they already picked up there ROI for the software.

    BTW, Gimp is good for 4chan pics, but Photoshop is good for everything else.

    --
    "The laws of science be a harsh mistress." --Bender
    1. Re:I shall keep snagging them by kevinNCSU · · Score: 1

      I think it's a tad unreasonable to expect an extremely capable software program that can give you skills you can make money from as well as use produce work you can profit off of to be priced $30-$40 LESS then you're run of the mill video game release. If you're just a programmer "changing some icons" then gimp or other free alternatives should suite you just fine. You're argument is akin to saying you're going to keep stealing Wüsthof steak knives until they cost $1 because you're just using them to spread butter anyways.

    2. Re:I shall keep snagging them by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      You're not their target market and, frankly, are incredibly unlikely to be pursued in a piracy crackdown.
      You are doing what Adobe want though - getting familiar with their tools so they become the standard. Once you know Photoshop, and you end up in a job where you need graphics editing software, the company will have to purchase it for you. A company stands to lose a lot more than an individual in a piracy case, so they need to be legal. They're not going to get you, say, the Corel suite as it's not what you know how to use.

    3. Re:I shall keep snagging them by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      There was a time when word processors intended for home use didn't cost more than $50. Then along comes Microsoft: "Hey, businesses use our stuff so you need to use our stuff in the home, even though you might be a blue collar worker who never needs to open a DOC file....so dump your cheap C64's, Amigas or ST's and buy a DOS machine that costs more!"

    4. Re:I shall keep snagging them by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 1

      I agree that Adobe is overpriced, but $19.99 is pretty weak justification for your piracy. If you do free stuff that is hampered by the Gimp's limitations but can only justify twenty dollars for Adobe, I seriously doubt that what you're doing is important enough to justify the excuses. There is a broad spectrum of shareware out there for your price range; I suggest you give it a look. Googling, by the way, is free.

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    5. Re:I shall keep snagging them by Draek · · Score: 1

      BTW, Gimp is good for 4chan pics, but Photoshop is good for everything else.

      So is The GIMP, as you'd know if you spent your time using it instead of pirating the latest Photoshop.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
  6. Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business? by MagikSlinger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As an outsider looking in, I noticed Adobe never seemed to put any serious DRM on their software. Computer games put more effort into it than Photoshop ever did. I was always surprised how easy it was to install & use Adobe products with a single serial number used by thousands. I know they did make efforts to stop the distribution, but never as hard-core as Microsoft became with Office. And considering the prices they charged, I figured Adobe would.

    Then it occurred to me after working with artists who trained on Adobe products (pirated in some cases), etc. that Adobe's _real_ market for the $1000+ titles are businesses: advertising companies, professional graphic designers, businesses, etc. Going after the hobbyist or the poor artists wasn't their style. And then it clicked: when the artists came to my company, they got the company to buy Adobe products. *THUNK!* The network effect. If they can get more people used to using Adobe and associating certain high-value work with Adobe products, then the more likely they are to push for Adobe at work. And thus more money they can squeeze from businesses who make money.

    So to me, allowing a certain low level amount of piracy was always part of Adobe's game.

    --
    The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
  7. Cost and Alternatives by fermion · · Score: 1
    For many students, the cost and availability of the software is an issue. MS makes the software available very cheap to education to combat piracy. After the cost of the machine, Apple products are all but free. For certain programs, there are equivalent free alternatives. Typically such alternatives do not exist for Adobe products.

    Therefore I would argue that Adobe is the last major software house that depends on piracy to promote products. Companies do not really have the time and money to train users. Consumers do not always have time to pay for training. Schools are not going to invest in the software. So we are back to the piracy method to create a market for the legal software.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:Cost and Alternatives by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      Except that Adobe has always offered reduced-price Educational versions of their products:

      Adobe Creative Suite 5 Design Premium Student & Teacher Edition
      List Price: $1,899.00 Price: $399.99 & this item ships for FREE You Save: $1,499.01 (79%)

      http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Creative-Premium-Student-Teacher/dp/B003D8XE4K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1302030554&sr=8-3

      William

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    2. Re:Cost and Alternatives by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      You forgot Autodesk. If you think Photoshop is expensive.....

      That said, Autodesk doesn't seem to make it hard to pirate. You can just uninstall Maya and Mudbox on OS X and reinstall the 30 day trial. They offer great educational discounts (except that you have to be a real, live student).

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:Cost and Alternatives by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      $400 isn't exactly going to fit most student budgets. By contrast, Microsoft will sell you Office Pro Academic, with Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook, OneNote, Publisher, and Access for $80 if you're a student.

    4. Re:Cost and Alternatives by xMrFishx · · Score: 1

      Given the current cost of food/living, as a student I can assure you that is way beyond affordable in most cases. Students are fairly resourceful anyway, even if they're not tech savvy, usually someone they know is and student 'free' software gets around fast. In the UK my student loan doesn't even cover my accommodation costs, let alone food. I ain't forking out for premium software even with a student license.

    5. Re:Cost and Alternatives by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      Adobe offer massive discounts for educational use.
      Educational institutions can purchase blanket site licenses for the software.

      As an example, I'll use the Master Collection (one with the lot)
      The RRP (in AUD) is $4,345.00 for the whole suite as a retail boxed copy.
      The student and teacher version is $605.00 for a single copy.
      The educational site license (for up to 500 seats) is $24,750.00 - this is less than $50 per seat.

    6. Re:Cost and Alternatives by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      None of which come with a Pantone license, or Toyo ink license, and Microsoft doesn't have to pay itself for the Windows Media Technologies which Adobe has to license --- and that's just InDesign. Adobe Acrobat uses technology from Autonomy, OCR Technology from Image Integrated Systems, &c.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    7. Re:Cost and Alternatives by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      And when the interviewer asks you point blank which software you used for a given design and where you got it your answer is?

      If you're working in the design field, you're getting payed depends on other people paying for intellectual property --- stealing the tools you use to make such is the height of hypocrisy.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    8. Re:Cost and Alternatives by xMrFishx · · Score: 1

      Seeing as lab computers all contain licensed versions for student use, why would one say they have a copied version at home when they can merely say "I have learned X at uni". The thing is, if say I was a PS user graphic design student, (I'm not), I would no doubt be taught using licensed systems on campus, but finding enough hours in the day at the 'right time' to use the labs to get coursework done, not always convenient. It's not as if Adobe would be losing out in that case. Unused but licensed machines (lab, closed at night), or unlicensed but used machines (at student's home, used at night). Can't really see the difference if both exist harmoniously in the student world.

  8. The psuedo-libertarian mindset. by jedidiah · · Score: 1, Interesting

    > Ah it's good to get my daily SlashKos dose, where there's always a
    > featured story about how stealing is justified because of teh evil
    > capitalismz0rz!!

    +...versus the classic pseudo libertarian mindset.

              "Tort reform for the rich. Crime and punishment for the poor."

    The sad part is that the poor buy into this nonsense and happily cheer along their corporate overlords as if the last 500 years of social and political progress never happened at all.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  9. Re:/.gov.science.fiction..swashbuckling thievery.g by Skidborg · · Score: 1

    Dude, we always need more big holes in the planet.

    --
    Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
  10. Re:old reliable by hedwards · · Score: 1

    Capitalism is fine, but abusing a monopoly position isn't. Good luck working professionally if you haven't got the latest version of Photoshop. Whether Gimp does everything you need or not, anybody that you're working with is probably going to be requiring a Photoshop compatible file.

  11. Intuit by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 2

    I can tell you from experience that Intuit (Quickbooks, Quicken, Peachtree...etc.) are the worst about this. A company can effectively run the same version for several years, but if they want to share their books with an accountant (as most probably will), then the client and the accountant must all have matching software versions. If the account decides to take the brunt, then they must have enough licenses to run multiple copies simultaneously which becomes VERY expensive, plus a version for each year that their clients have. Not only do the licenses cost money, but you better have at least a 100Gb drive on every computer to hold all versions, plus a hefty dose of RAM to handle the app, plus all the others that a typical accounting firm needs to run (Office, PPC, CCH...etc).

    It's a fucking racket, I tell you. The partners at my accounting firm hate me when I have to deliver the budget.

    --
    Loading...
    1. Re:Intuit by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 2

      I submit that Rockwell Software is yet worse.

      If you have an Allen Bradley Logix series PLC, its firmware must match your version of RSLogix all the way down to the point release. Unless you maintain a support agreement there is no upgrade path, you just buy the full new version.

      You can reflash the PLC's firmware but that often sticks you with known bugs.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    2. Re:Intuit by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Are there Open Source accounting apps available? Seems to me that accounting isn't exactly rocket science, just about anybody can write an accounting app, even a Visual Basic programmer...

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    3. Re:Intuit by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 1

      Not with the tools, tables, laws and features that the commercial apps have. The software we use takes the guess-work out of each states' specific laws and provides neat little forms for every scenario. I suppose someone could build an open-source platform but they'd have to be a tax lawyer proficient in all states and a programmer and no one would ever put that much time into something that ends up being free. Once maybe, but every year Congress passes new laws that must be updated in the software in order to be compliant and get the most return for your clients as possible. It's an incredibly complicated process that some companies shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars for every year. If their accountant can't provide the best result for the money they'll go elsewhere.

      --
      Loading...
    4. Re:Intuit by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      What firmwares are Adobe products compatible with?

      Sometime RSLogix is backward compatible but more often it is not. If you have different customers on different versions the only safe bet is install multiple versions.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    5. Re:Intuit by jonescb · · Score: 1

      I know of GNU Cash, but I've never used it. Like Stenchwarrior said, I don't think GNU Cash has all the legalese in it.

    6. Re:Intuit by optimus2861 · · Score: 1

      If you have an Allen Bradley Logix series PLC, its firmware must match your version of RSLogix all the way down to the point release.

      Untrue, and I've run RSLogix5000 for years, starting way back at version 7 I think. The major version of the software & firmware must match to go online to a processor or open its program, but not the minor & point releases.

      Rockwell is evil for many reasons, but this is not one of them.

    7. Re:Intuit by FRiC · · Score: 1

      That's a lot like the Siemens PLC we have. The software on the PLC, the firmware on the PLC, and the PC software must all match. And different versions of PC software can't be installed simultaneously on the same computer. So we have a whole series of computers with different versions installed to support the different PLC's.

      And they charge crazy prices on "PLC memory downloading unit" to my company until I realized they're just regular CF cards.

  12. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by decipher_saint · · Score: 2

    Actually they've had varying degrees of registration hoops over the years (if I recall for CS2 you actually had to dial a number to get key confirmation). That said, tools like Photoshop are so popular cracks and workarounds show up almost immediately after launch.

    On the plus side newer versions seem to have fewer useful additions but more off-putting cosmetic changes that make cheaper alternatives more appealing.

    --
    crazy dynamite monkey
  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. Re:old reliable by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    You don't need 'the latest version of Photoshop' to put out a .tiff file or a .jpg. Even PS 7 will do that just fine (as will GIMP). If you want to bend your models arm in non anatomic positions with Puppetwarp, yeah, you'll need CS 5. However, there are many older ways to make impossible looking humans or whatever it is that you're planning on altering.

    The whole rant seems to revolve around InDesign. The other CS programs (Dreamweaver, Illustrator, PS, and to some extent Flash) tend to be much more conservative.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  15. Re:upgrade in the last month? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Somebody knows that projects are never really completed, and that they will be maintaining the results of that project for the next 5 years, during which time the old software may get hard to find support for.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  16. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by Thruen · · Score: 1

    It's always looked to me like Adobe realizes the obvious, that the people pirating their software wouldn't be buying it anyway even if there was no other choice. It's widely used by hobby artists mainly because of piracy, otherwise they'd simply be forced to use a cheap or free alternative. I tend to think the situation is not all that different from piracy in other industries, most people who download things without paying would not have bought them even if downloading wasn't an option.

  17. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by Synn · · Score: 3, Informative

    95%, if not more, of people using Photoshop don't need it. We tried for a major push for Adobe Elements at one place I worked at, but a lot of people wanted Photoshop just because it was the "grown up"/Real product.

  18. This is the world is overtaken by ants story... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Piracy is not what drives the business model. Piracy is a variable that gets dealt with, and sometimes the best way to deal with it is through benign neglect, as is pointed out by the Microsoft model.

    What you perceive in Adobe as being driven by the pirate, or you desire not to update, is simply a failure to understand that you are not the target market. The target market is not just one person, but the professional eco-system. And more important that the price at anytime, the solution provides the overall cheapest solution in time and payment for time, but in also professional and creative ability, which also leads to less time used, and more money saved.

    Adobe strives to make sure that the value of the upgrade to the primary market is worth the upgrade. IE the sum of the additional features and efficiencies from creative to output are more valuable than the costs. There are complaints everytime, but by those that don't appreciate the business model for a large variety of reasons. But if you carefully notice, the program continues to gain prominence in the target marketplace at the expense of nearly other product and workflow.

    The question of piracy is important, especially in the key target markets, because there are many many people who exploit the Adobe tools and make money off them who would rather not pay. It is also true that there is more products, especially in the Photo arena that are getting play. Not so much GIMP, but products that provide frames and retro and non-digital feel to files. And programs that came with cameras and the smart phone. But none of these are going to be replacements for the target market that Adobe and actually the market, has come to depend on.

  19. Acrobat by Hogwash+McFly · · Score: 2

    My computer at work is licensed for Acrobat 8 Professional. After upgrading Microsoft Office 2003 to 2010, I can no longer create PDF files from Word documents. Looking online, the solution to this issue from Adobe appears to be "upgrade to Acrobat X". Yeah, thanks.

    --
    Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
    1. Re:Acrobat by Telvin_3d · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wait. Microsoft did a major change in their software. After upgrading to the new version of Word you discovered that Adobe's four year old software didn't know how to talk to Microsoft's brand new software. And this is Adobe's fault?

    2. Re:Acrobat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You don't need Acrobat to create PDF files from Word 2010.

      File Menu -> "Save & Send" -> "Create PDF/XPS Document".

    3. Re:Acrobat by Hogwash+McFly · · Score: 1

      I'm very sorry, I don't know what I was thinking.

      --
      Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
    4. Re:Acrobat by Kozz · · Score: 1

      When all you need is a very simple, portable document... PDFCreator.

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    5. Re:Acrobat by Phoenix0 · · Score: 1

      Oh that's nothing. At my work, Acrobat 9 refused to print to our main Xerox printer and the fix was of course "upgrade to Acrobat X." And well, we just upgraded. Acrobat X is certainly worlds better: instead of merely not printing the document, attempting to print crashes the program. Side note: for your problem, try a free PDF printer, like primo PDF: http://www.primopdf.com/index.aspx

    6. Re:Acrobat by yakatz · · Score: 2

      Wait. Microsoft did a major change in their software. After upgrading to the new version of Word you discovered that Adobe's four year old software didn't know how to talk to Microsoft's brand new software. And this is Adobe's fault?

      And then you look at Microsoft's brand new software closely and realize that Microsoft's brand new software does not NEED to EVER talk to ANY of Adobe's software.
      You can create all the PDFs you want for FREE (okay, you did buy Office for how many hundred dollars).

    7. Re:Acrobat by Inda · · Score: 1

      It's always installed itself as a printer driver; you can 'print' from any application.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    8. Re:Acrobat by sh3p · · Score: 1

      Office 2010 can natively "save as" PDF ...

    9. Re:Acrobat by Kakari · · Score: 1

      If you don't want to use PDFCreator, or the built-in Save As PDF... feature - you can use:
      http://www.cutepdf.com/
      http://www.nitropdf.com/
      http://www.primopdf.com/

    10. Re:Acrobat by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      I stopped using PDFCreator when their SourceForge downloads started coming with shitty browser toolbars and background processes that you couldn't say no to - no idea if they've stopped that abysmal activity, but I will never use them again.

      Instead, I install the Microsoft-supplied extension for Office which allows me to save as a PDF - the same extension that Adobe threatened to sue MS over when they were going to include it as a saveable file format.

    11. Re:Acrobat by Kozz · · Score: 1

      I stopped using PDFCreator when their SourceForge downloads started coming with shitty browser toolbars and background processes

      Then you must really despise the Java runtimes... they try to install the Yahoo! browser toolbar, and then you get Java quickstart in your system tray, etc. I guess I've just learned my lesson to try to pay attention during the install process after being burned more than once.

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    12. Re:Acrobat by TheHonch · · Score: 1

      Luckily you can now save as pdf from Office 2010 without using Acrobat

    13. Re:Acrobat by williamfrench4 · · Score: 1

      2010 does this out of the box; 2007 needs a service pack from MS Update. A fresh install won't always have PDF on the menu if it hasn't had a chance to install that service pack.

      --
      There is no force, however great/Can stretch a cord, however fine/Into a horizontal line/Which is absolutely straight.
    14. Re:Acrobat by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      I don't have Java installed :) My issue with PDFCreator is that initially they never gave an option for the toolbar, they just installed it and some background stuff which was picked up by most antivirus kits, and then they gave an option within the installer but ignored your choice. I stopped using them when I found this out. Same as I stopped using Wordpress when I found out they were using hidden pages to link farm Google.

  20. Creative Suite for the masses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I know the party line is everything needs to be free or nearly free but you might as well say Porsche needs to sell it's cars for $5,000 or less because some people can't aford them. There are free options for some of the parts of Creative Suite but it was never intended to be the option for everyone. Most software has actually come down in price over the last 20 years inspite of most prices doubling. Maya used to sell for the price of a sports car where as today you can buy the full version for $3,700 and they used to have a two grand version. These are considered professional softwares and they require an investment. There's lots of things I'd like but I can't aford them. I've spent tens of thousands on software over the years and done without nice things to aford them so why should some one else gets theirs for free?

  21. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by joeaguy · · Score: 1

    Exactly. Its even worse than that. Most designers are aware of Gimp, and a few know of Inkscape, but when I talk to designers, they just don't want to use them. I explain that these programs are really free as in freedom, respecting you as a person and not calling you a criminal for not paying arbitrarily high prices, and offer most of the functionality you need for most projects, especially web stuff. Still, Gimp and Inkscape won't get you hired.

    Design involves workflows, and Adobe through their suites owns the workflow. There used to be a bit more competition in the design world, with Quark (which has withered) and Aldus (which Adobe bought), and Macromedia (which Adobe bought), all bringing something to the workflow. Now Adobe owns it end to end. Designers want to design, and not worry about software. And to design, someone needs to pay you, and for someone to pay you, you need to use the tools everyone else is using. So you pirate Adobe so you can work with others, and when the day comes that you are working for the sort of place that might be mindful of the BSA, or you are making the big money yourself, you finally buy a license. All that time before then was kind of like an extended "trial period" really.

    Still, I do think something can be done. There is plenty of design in free and open source software projects and companies. They should whenever possible insist on use of FOSS tools, and they should make a big deal about the fact that they use them, and why they use them. I know its a niche market, but Gimp has already found some success in the rather big money niche of film. There is a huge reserve army of unemployed designers who just might be interested in the whole "free as in freedom" idea as long as it also brought a little "money as in paycheck".

  22. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by Telvin_3d · · Score: 1

    It's one of those things where even if Elements (or Gimp or whatever) does 99% of what you need it only takes that 1% to be deeply annoying.

  23. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by kitsunewarlock · · Score: 1

    Don't forget schools. Art schools have to buy tons of licenses with each new version release (although they are usually a version or two behind since CS2).

    --
    Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
  24. Re:Soon also by OldHawk777 · · Score: 1

    We can provide corporate welfare to adobe. Are they a US or EU company?

    --
    Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
  25. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by mlts · · Score: 1

    This is due to two reasons:

    1: DRM isn't needed in businesses due to the BSA. Fear of running afoul of the BSA keeps the licenses current in almost any company, and companies who don't license their software are just one ex-employee with an "anonymous" report away from being shut down due to large fines.

    2: Adobe is the only game in town. Realistically here, the high end camera makers don't write plugins for the GIMP, so if one wants to make use of the RAW images from one's EOS-1 or other camera without losing data, they are either using Photoshop, or perhaps Lightroom. Ever see a pro photographer using the GIMP for their portfolios? Even though the GIMP is excellent, Photoshop is the anointed standard. This is similar when dealing in the CAD arena, one speaks AutoCAD [1], or they don't play.

    [1]: Perhaps SolidWorks and CATIA for CNC stuff as a small exception.

  26. At least they are consistent by NicknamesAreStupid · · Score: 1

    Adobe, like Intuit and Microsoft, has worked for decades to establish a dominant position in their market. They are entitled to milk it as hard as they want, reap the benefits and suffer the consequences. I've seen drug companies do the same with drugs protected by patents. Once they establish an installed base with a dependency, they raise their prices, sometimes ten- to fifty-fold. Their customers have fewer options, too. Of course, once the patent rights expire, the drug price drops like a rock. Adobe walks a fine line, seeing pressure from public domain programs like gimp and competitors like Microsoft. They do it their way at the risk of someone offering an easier/cheaper alternative. The cost of their software is not just the product price. Many spend far more on training. CS5 is very complex and not many know it end-to-end. Actually, they benefit from the high cost, as those who have mastered it can earn a good living off it. There is a whole ecosystem behind keeping this business model.

  27. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  28. Re:/.gov.science.fiction..swashbuckling thievery.g by mace9984 · · Score: 1

    tl;dr

  29. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  30. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by oldmac31310 · · Score: 2

    The newer versions also seem to get more and more bloated and require more powerful computers to do the same stuff as previous versions of the software. I've never understood this. And the fact that each new version breaks compatability of older file versions with the new software version is a nasty tactic. Professional designers are forced to upgrade whether or not they can afford to, or indeed want to. This applies both to the hardware and software. On the Mac, you must have an Intel processor to use the latest version of Adobe CS!

    --
    http://www.acetonestudio.com
  31. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by Pulzar · · Score: 1

    Realistically here, the high end camera makers don't write plugins for the GIMP, so if one wants to make use of the RAW images from one's EOS-1 or other camera without losing data, they are either using Photoshop, or perhaps Lightroom.

    Nikon and Canon don't write plugins for Adobe products, either. Adobe writes them, and they don't even have full access to RAW specs, as camera manufactures keep them proprietary and secret. Most of it is reverse-engineered, with some (unknown) data simple being unused by Adobe products.

    If GIMP developers went through the same effort of reverse-engineering formats, they'd be able to support them, too. Although, I still don't see many serious professionals using GIMP -- the difference in other features and performance is just too great.

    --
    Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
  32. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by SomePgmr · · Score: 1

    Honestly it's not the feature sets that put me off. I bought Photoshop, knowing full-well that Gimp and Elements probably do 99% of what I need, and that I'd have to dual-boot or VM a windows install to use it. It didn't matter though. While I know they're technically good, they're both just so painful to use. Yes, I'm sure a lot of it has to do with what I'm used to... but with numerous attempts, I can't get used to gimp. It's like knowing I can build a house with a hammer and chainsaw. The functionality is all there, it just isn't worth the aggravation.

    Inkscape, otoh, works very comfortably. I think there's been a lot more thought there from the ground up.

  33. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    The same reason software companies give their software away for free for Universities to use, and having cheap "educational" copies...

    Its not out of the goodness of their hearts. Its because they know that the more people that know how to use their product will help decide what products business will use in the future.

  34. Simply Accounting (Canadian accounting software) by kevin_j_morse · · Score: 1

    Sage, the makers of Simply Accounting (a popular small business accounting program in Canada), are perhaps even worse. Not only are the different years incompatible but the different patches each year are also incompatible. Even more troublesome is the fact that the program throws no errors when one tries to load a company file from a previous generation, it just instantly closes.

    In order for accountants to access your data they have to know exactly which version of the program you're running. I'm sure Sage makes thousands from frustrated accountants just telling customers they're going to need to upgrade to the latest version.

  35. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

    Realistically here, the high end camera makers don't write plugins for the GIMP, so if one wants to make use of the RAW images from one's EOS-1 or other camera without losing data, they are either using Photoshop, or perhaps Lightroom.

    Nikon and Canon don't write plugins for Adobe products, either. Adobe writes them, and they don't even have full access to RAW specs, as camera manufactures keep them proprietary and secret. Most of it is reverse-engineered, with some (unknown) data simple being unused by Adobe products.

    If GIMP developers went through the same effort of reverse-engineering formats, they'd be able to support them, too. Although, I still don't see many serious professionals using GIMP -- the difference in other features and performance is just too great.

    There's no need to reverse-engineer anything. Anyone involved with processing photos already knows about dcraw which is used to turn RAW files into something usable. In fact, Adobe uses it in Photoshop, as does practically everyone else except the camera manufacturers.

    Now, they all modify the code as they think they have a better Bayer interpolation code than everyone else, but that's their perogative. (RAW images are just raw sensor data plus metadata).

  36. Re:old reliable by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

    Ah it's good to get my daily SlashKos dose, where there's always a featured story about how stealing is justified because of teh evil capitalismz0rz!!

    If you were to become educated on the topic you'd suddenly not see as many crazy people about.

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  37. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  38. Re:How is an empire in decline different from ... by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Consider also the Tacoma Narrows fiasco, now some decades ago, which in my opinion is not a mistake that competent engineers make, but one due to social promotion at the highest levels of our education system

    I know you're young, but the social promotion you're talking about didn't start until the 70's and wasn't commonplace until the 90's (I remember kids flunking often enough). The Tacoma Narrows Bridge went wacky in 1940. The engineers who designed and built that bridge were probably taught in 1910-1935. They're the great-great-grandparents of the spoiled "everyone wins" generation.

  39. Re:How is an empire in decline different from ... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2

    Consider that collapsing bridge in Minnesota recently. Consider also the Tacoma Narrows fiasco, now some decades ago, which in my opinion is not a mistake that competent engineers make, but one due to social promotion at the highest levels of our education system, which is also symptomatic of an empire in decline.

    The Minnesota I-35W bridge collapse is indeed a symptom of our inability (or at least shortsighted unwillingness) to maintain our infrastructure. But the Tacoma Narrows (a.k.a. "Galloping Gertie") collapse happened in 1940 -- that's before the "empire" you claim is declining even existed! (The United States became a "superpower" during/after/because of WW2.)

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  40. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

    And you know the most funny part of that ? Adobe is not even aware that it is working this way ! Shareholders do not realize that they are at the mercy of a dumb manager that will one day decide that the next versions of Photoshop will require a constant net access for DRM purpose.

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  41. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by Kalriath · · Score: 2

    Personally, I find the best feature of CS5 to be that trial expiry no longer works. Every time it starts on my PC, it claims I've got 30 days left to evaluate, then when it finally actually starts it claims the trial has expired but I can run it *just one more time*.

    Rinse and repeat.

    --
    For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
  42. Re:Simply Accounting (Canadian accounting software by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 1

    I fucking HATE Sage. They bought up a company and software called The Medical Manager that I used to support here in town for the local Docs, and once they did that the service went to absolute dog-shit. It was originally Unix-based and very stable but when Sage took over they developed a new Windows-only version and since then all my old clients have dropped them and gone with one of the 300+ competitors.

    --
    Loading...
  43. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by FrankDrebin · · Score: 1

    I noticed Adobe never seemed to put any serious DRM on their software...

    I bet that Dmitri Skylarov has a different opinion.

    --
    Anybody want a peanut?
  44. Theses suites are too expensive. by Pinback · · Score: 1

    Every time you tools play along and facilitate this stuff, you're helping create the problem.

    Doesn't matter whether its Office, CS, or something else. If I can't plunk down 200-300$ and get a workable suite, I'm going to stay away.

  45. Don't upgrade. if you have to, downsave documents by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 3, Informative

    Seriously, how hard can it be to not upgrade. If you're working on a huge project in-house, don't upgrade your software half-way through, unless you're prepared to update all copies of it.

    InDesign, the software mentioned in the article, will automatically upgrade the format of the document when opened in a new version with no warning. This can be a problem. It also does allow you to downsave by one version (CS5 can save as InDesign Interchange format, which will open in CS4. CS4 to INX for CS3).

    If you have the Creative Suite, you really should be on volume licensing - even if it's just one copy. It's not a well known fact, but individuals can purchase volume licensing and there is no minimum buy-in to their TLP licensing program. Licensing copies are cheaper than retail box copies, you can re-download your installers if you lose them, Adobe keep a record of your serial number/proof of purchase if you loose it or are audited and you can purchase maintenance if you want to keep your copies up-to-date for less than the regular upgrade cost.

    Also, with licensing, if you purchase a copy of, say, CS5, but you're running all CS4 licenses in your studio, you can install a copy of CS4 instead using your CS4 volume license serial number.

    There's no arguing that the Creative Suite is expensive, but if you're smart about it, you can keep the costs down a bit.

  46. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

    What's more, not only does piracy on the personal level help Adobe with becoming, or staying as, the industry standard, but they are pretty flexible with personal use of the software too.

    If, for example, your workplace has purchased site licensing for Adobe software, and you have a copy installed on your workstation - you are allowed to (legally) install the same suite of software on your personal computer at home (for as long as you are employed there and have the suite on your work computer).

  47. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by CronoCloud · · Score: 1
  48. Re:old reliable by couchslug · · Score: 1

    Capitalism is wonderful but is amoral, and there is no moral reason to be a sheep in a pack of wolves.

    It's OK to do anything you can get away with. The little people get away with little things, while our masters feast and get away with large things. If they make it too onerous for us, we can rise and kill them. If not, we do their will in return for shiny objects.

    I LIKE shiny objects.

    --
    "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  49. Word 2010 costs about $37.50 by Atypical+Geek · · Score: 1

    Office 2010 Home and Student costs 150 USD and includes Word, Excel, Powerpoint and One Note.

    1. Re:Word 2010 costs about $37.50 by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      How many home users make powerpoint files? And do you know what most home users actually use Excel do with it.....table formatting without doing any actual calculations.

      ANY version of office is overkill for the "True" home user, meaning someone who isn't some wannabe entrepreneur or has a home office whose expenses they deduct on their tax returns. Most people could use Abiword.

      And if they ARE running a home office...they shouldn't be using the "Home and Student" version, but paying more.

  50. Summary Conclusion Bad by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 1

    If you're on the last month of a four-year project with a deadline and you upgrade vital software, you're an idiot either way. The software was good enough to get you this far; if you thought you needed those new features in order to finish then you were taking a ridiculous gamble in the first place.

    --
    "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
  51. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by Firehed · · Score: 1

    Adobe applies way more DRM than most companies - it's just really easy to get around if you know what you're doing. Like most DRM implementations, it only really hampers the people who have paid for the software. The rest of us spent fifteen seconds sending requests to adobe's activation servers to the void thanks to a couple entries in /etc/hosts.

    --
    How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
  52. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by MagikSlinger · · Score: 1

    Adobe applies way more DRM than most companies - it's just really easy to get around if you know what you're doing. Like most DRM implementations, it only really hampers the people who have paid for the software. The rest of us spent fifteen seconds sending requests to adobe's activation servers to the void thanks to a couple entries in /etc/hosts.

    And you've disproved my point... how? :-)

    --
    The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
  53. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by tycoex · · Score: 1

    It's just what you're used to in my opinion. I taught myself with GIMP and used it for a couple years. When I tried to do something on my friends computer using Photoshop I couldn't figure out where anything was.

    I too was tempted to say, "Photoshop has a terrible interface," but I realized it was just terrible for me because it's not what I'm used to.

    I also find that macs have a God awful user interface, but I assume that's just because I'm so used to Windows.

  54. Reverse Engineering, of course- by purduephotog · · Score: 1

    Not the software, but the file format.

    A former engineer at our company ran into a problem- his 'mac' produced help files would only work in version 1.0 of the context software, and the minimum upgrade was to 3.1. 3.0 was the last version that was backwards compatible with 1.0.

    In short, it was a cluster f.... but he solved it brilliantly.

    Looking at the header of the file... he discovered that the FIRST damn byte was off by 1 hex code. So all of the tech support calls, all of the demands for fixing this- all of these issues and being told there was NO WAY to make the earlier files compatible with the most recent ... were bullshit. He hex-edited the old files and they worked perfectly fine.

    I wish he still worked for us instead of being laid off. His intelligence is missed.

  55. story is not quite right, though the sentiment is by GMGruman · · Score: 1

    I wholeheartedly agree that Adobe's too-frequent release schedule and backward compatibility issues is a real pain. I keep three versions on my Mac to deal with that silliness. But the story was wrong in one respect. The author said that they saved an InDesign CS3 file in CS4 and then couldn't send it back to the original designer. There is a standard way in all Adobe apps to this, and it's been there for all of InDeisgn's versions at least. It's not intuitive though: You have to export the layout (not save as) to a file format first called InDesign Interchange and later IDML. That file is readable by the previous version of InDesign, so you can share between any two levels (CS2 and CS3, or CS3 and CS4, or CS4 and CS5). But you can't do this across more than immediately adjacent levels, such as between CS3 and CS5 or CS2 and CS5. The lack of intuitiveness is probably mean to encourage upgrades.

    There is a negative for Adobe in all of this. At work, a license snafu meant I lost my license to InDesign CS3 (it was transferred to another user accidentally). IT said they could buy me the current version (CS5) but that would mean I couldn't exchange files with my colleagues. Adobe had no way to get the older version. So, my choice was to live without InDesign or to have my company upgrade several other users at a cost of more than $2,000 (since we're talking Creative Suite upgrades). At that price, I'm living without InDesign at my office,

  56. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

    Raw is still an adjective, not an acronym. There's nothing magical about NEF or CR2 or other raw files - they're akin to a glorified TIFF. Processing software appears to sometimes have subtle differences in how it goes about demosaicing, but I don't see where there's anything unused -- hence the term "raw". There exists freeware raw processing software. The ACR people are friendly with the dev, and have collaborated at times.

  57. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by YoshiDan · · Score: 1

    Install the trial version of CS5 straight from adobe's site, use a "borrowed key" from a warez site, block a few adobe activation addresses in /etc/hosts and bob's ya sister. No cracks needed and it will run happily forever amen...

  58. "High cost country" by geirlk · · Score: 1

    They (Adobe) defined Norway as a "High cost country", and doubled the prices here compared to say, the US.
    They charge us $5436 for the CS5 Master Collection. Same pack, same site, US web shop: $2599
    Our poor neighbors in Sweden are charged almost $6100

    Seems like their trying to take back their entire loss to "piracy" through charging us the double.

    With a pricing policy like that, it hardly seems strange that someone would elect _not_ to pay'em.

    In Adobes case, there are a lot of potential users that have to start out as pirates to actually learn how to use their software, so at a later stage they could buy it.

  59. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    I know personally that you can defeat the security in CS2. And when I installed it legitimately I did not have to call anyone.

    On the flip side, I don't use any Adobe any more. The last holdout was Acrobat. I can get done what I need to get done with GS and Inkscape, today. Scribus-NG replaced InDesign for me some time ago. The Gimp has replaced Photoshop for me completely for even longer. (It's true I'm not doing prepress.)

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  60. Re:How is an empire in decline different from ... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    The United States became a "superpower" during/after/because of WW2.

    The USA has been involved in empire building since before it even existed. First it spread like a terrible skin infection across this nation, deforesting and committing genocide. Then it immediately began leaning on its weaker neighbors to the south, bombarding them navally to induce specific economic activity.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  61. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by Tim+C · · Score: 1

    I explain that these programs are really free as in freedom, respecting you as a person and not calling you a criminal for not paying arbitrarily high prices

    Most people, in a professional setting at least, don't really care about that (especially as it's not their money that's paying for it)...

    offer most of the functionality you need for most projects

    ...but that they do care about. If I have a choice between two pieces of software, one that does everything I need and one that doesn't, I am not going to want to be at work longer because I have the latter rather than the former.

  62. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by joeaguy · · Score: 1

    Most people, in a professional setting at least, don't really care about that (especially as it's not their money that's paying for it)...

    A lot of design does not happen in a "professional setting". It is done by freelancers, and small shops, and before they are that they are students and trying to build up a portfolio. I am discussing their insistence on Adobe products, when in that situation where it is their money, and they don't have a lot of it, the no cost part of free software does matter. The freedom part of free software matters too because there is mutual respect in place.

    Yes, if you are working for a big company that can afford it, then software and cost decisions don't matter to the individual employee, it all just magically appears on your desk. But these independents do need to integrate their work with the workflow of these bigger places, and that is how Adobe has everyone convinced other things are not worth their time. I can certainly appreciate the sentiment, it takes time to learn something else, and most people just want their tools to get out of the way. The free alternatives sometimes need to improve their UI to reduce the learning curve for someone coming from the Adobe world. The proof is in the work though, and if good design is created with these tools, and people know it, I think it gives a stronger reason for people to give it a 2nd look. A few cool kids can do a lot to improve the popularity of a group.

    The free alternatives are not perfect or right for every project. Not having to sneak around with cracks, etc, or break the bank, I think is a strong plus.

  63. Not Piracy by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

    Copyright infringment is NOT piracy. Piracy is ship to ship armed robbery, kidnapping and murder.

    --
    Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
  64. Re:Wasn't piracy always a part of Adobe's business by sleadlay · · Score: 1

    Corel bought Jasc PSP in 2004, not Adobe.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_Shop_Pro

  65. In fact non-Adobe free software would be OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    95%, if not more, of people using Photoshop don't need it. We tried for a major push for Adobe Elements at one place I worked at, but a lot of people wanted Photoshop just because it was the "grown up"/Real product.

    Without this delusion they have in fact most company workers could do all the same work with GIMP (or even non-commercial quality software) and would probably need only part of features anyway... Especially with GIMP, which would be free in money and as in freedom. But damn those delusions.