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China Plans Space Station By 2020
RedEaredSlider writes "China unveiled plans for its own space station, to be completed by 2020, along with a cargo ship to ferry supplies to and from orbit. The fact that the country is proposing one is a sign of the Chinese government's ambitions in space. China is the third nation to launch its own manned rockets into space, sending its first astronaut into orbit in 2003 aboard the Shenzhou 5 rocket. Since then two other manned missions have been launched."
Hopefully the emergence of the Chinese and others (India?) will fuel a new space race, with bigger ambitions than last time around. Mars maybe?
Tired of my customary (Score:1)
I plan on using my 3 wishes for a billion dollars, a time travel device, and then an infinite amount of wishes!
If they want to waste their genie on shuttles, and space stations that's their business!
I bet the orbit will take an hour - so they'll be back around as soon as you are hungry again.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
...oh wait, this is the plot to Moonlight Mile right?
And interestingly enough, the outside of their space station looks a lot like the ISS, but inside there is a lot of plastic, bad/cheap soldering jobs, cheap components that break easily, duct tape, and a lot of empty unused space.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
The design will look *exactly* like the ISS....
Not sure why every news source is banging on about the station being low mass; once the principle of on-orbit assembly is mastered the only real limits to mass are how many modules you choose to launch, and how much fuel you need for a reboost. Getting from 60-tonne station to 400-tonne station is a far smaller step than getting from nothing to a multi-modular station.
The fact China isn't going to build a very large station may indicate firm intentions to go to the Moon. If they are just using this to practice techniques for longer range exploration, there isn't much point making it huge.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
With the what's been in the news in the past few years about Chinese manufactoring I would personally like to see some kind of oversight comittee on this project if they're going to be allowed to put a thousand pounds of "Grade A Chinese Steel" a few hundred miles above my head.
Orbital Mechanics. Newton's got you covered. Now, calm down.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Just because China is planning to planning to build something does not mean they will. Remember we we planned to build that super mega particle smasher in Texas? I don't recall that plan working out.
Remember when the US planned to have colonies on the moon by now?
Remember when I planned to marry a super model when I was a teenager? I am sure you can guess how that worked out.
That aside, I hope they do it. It seems the world will only move forward with competition from an "evil" empire.
China first launched an astronaut in orbit eight years ago.
Seven years after the US launched its first astronaut in orbit, they had sent people to the moon.
'Low' Mileage, Great Location...
Maybe we should have worked with China as a partner on the ISS.
9 years to go from "we put a few guys in orbit" to "fully manned and fully operational space station" is a staggeringly optimistic schedule. If China is able to pull it off, I will tip my hat to them.
I wonder if they'll also be just as fast in discovering that manned space stations are generally a waste of time and money?
I read the internet for the articles.
Look for a video called "China's Ghost Towns" to see how China is inflating their GDP by building cities that no one can afford to live in. It's freaky to see all these empty supermalls and highrise apartment buildings. When China's bubble explodes it's going to be a whole new disaster for the world economy.
-- thinkyhead software and media
But seriously! In nine years?
Uhmm?
Well maybe if the Higgs really has been discovered and the Chinese know how to use it to surconvent gravity, then maybe.
Nah!
I don't know why we're worried about regulating nuclear power
Because a well placed nuke can vaporize that thousand pounds of "Grade A Chinese Steel" in a fraction of a second. The Chinese would be obligated to de-orbit the station at the end of its life cycle into the South Pacific graveyard (just like MIR) and not on your head, the alternative would see a well place nuke delivered to the front door step of China.
Good luck to them dodging all that debris they left for everyone when they shot down their own satellite.
For whatever reason, the Chinese may indeed commit the colossally stupid act of setting up a manned space station. It is a moronic waste of money, which presents competitors with an opportunity: set up a network of completely robotic space stations that will do vastly more at far lower cost and generate more advances in robotics. Let the Chinese put little red stars on their shirt collars so that mommy can see what good little boys they are. Nations that have already seen that it is a financial black hole that produces practically nothing of value need not accompany them.
Actually, it is wishful thinking to believe the Chinese are that stupid. 2020 is still a ways off, and they will likely see that for many reasons robotics is the way to go. They have the potential to dominate the nascent robotics boom if they avoid idiotic distractions like this one. Let's hope those of us in the US are up to the challenge.
Expect to see dollar stores in space by 2025 then?
Space travel - yet another thing we'll be outsourcing to China...
From a long-term evolutionary perspective, the cultural or polity which manages to keep a long-term presence off-world wins at life.
If they can pull it off, good for them.
I want to insert a white iphone 4 in my anus.
Will you help?
at lease someon is going. Good luck China.
BTW, Manned Space Programs are what countries get for have appropriate eye on science and the longevity of a country.
It's also what you loose when all focus is on money spent now and constantly cutting.
But hey, let keep lowering taxes and butcher all our assets. It's the libertarian way...to 3rd world status.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The wiki page lists an eleven launch, partially completed program to a permanent station. Sounds a bit like Skylab or Mir.
China is under no obligation to recognize any "oversight committee." Unless you want to go to war with them, I'm pretty sure they, as a sovereign country, can send whatever they damn well please into space.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
"China Plans Space Station By 2020"
In other news:
"FBI Says Wire Fraud Scam Sending Millions To China"
"77 Million Accounts Stolen From Playstation Network"
So good for them! Nothing like a little friendly competition (and hopefully collaboration) to reignite the space race. Mars or Bust!
Perhaps they are waiting for us to finalize our designs for our Back to the Moon missions so that they can finally start building their ships. I doubt they want to replicate our Apollo Era technology at this point.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
US spacefarers are astronauts.
Russian spacefarers are cosmonauts.
Chinese spacefarers are taikonauts.
This is good for China, but whats much, much more impressive is a private company has started making plans on putting a man on Mars within 10-20 years (SpaceX). Its one thing for a government to commit to space travel, but its amazing for a private company to do that! SpaceX is already do amazing things with their launch capabilities.
As with the US-USSR space race, there is also the purpose to perfect missile technology, especially ICBMs. Keep that in mind for each space program you hear of.
Why? All they have to do is stop buying our debt and the country implodes, without the certainty of MAD. Besides, why would they need a space station for that? One of the dumbest posts I've seen all day.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Well... that was a major motivation of the US/USSR space race. The scientists had the military convinced that they needed assets in space, on the moon even and they would have an advantage at bombing each other. It worked great until they finally realized they were just flying further and farther away from the people that they wanted to blow up. Then the funding went away and we've been stuck in low earth orbit ever since.
Maybe the same is happening in China now?
just trun on no DISASTERS and it's 100% safe
The only way it's coming down is intentionally. China would have to get rather desperate to drop a space station as a weapon though, and I imagine every country with a telescope will be watching for the installation of anything that looks like an aerodynamically shaped rod.
They DO realize that really, to build a space station, it has to be in SPACE - you know, where people can see it?
Not, for example, in a pool.
I'm just sayin'.
-Styopa
We should be looking towards the oceans. What other environment on this planet is protected from storms, quakes and fires. Underwater cities over the deep ocean would make for great homes. Can also grow a lot of food near the surface in underwater green houses. So much space in the oceans for us to expand to. Does not need to be very deep. Would also learn how to live in such environments which would further our ability to live in space.
How Chinese are viewed as copycats and inferior but when it comes to space all of a sudden we feel threatened? They're just copying what other big powers did before them. They probably know it's a stunt and are just doing it for "form". It's not like physics, economics, engineering, chemistry, biology and reality are different in China. Maybe the economics, sure, but I don't see China getting bent out of shape because they can't sell you space iron...
De-orbiting Mir was stupid. For (IIRC) ten percent more they could have boosted it into a higher parking orbit and left it there as a museum or for future cannibalization. We preserve log cabins, which are not unique and rarely significant historically, but burn up Skylab and Mir so that "the enemy" can't somehow learn our secrets from them. Fucking stupid.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
No, the Chinese space program has been formed in the sustainable 'slow but steady progress' mode, rather than the unsustainable 'boom and bust' mode that the US and USSR followed. Their manned launches up to this point haven't really been oriented towards proving anything, like Apollo and Mir, but just as sanity checks to make sure that stuff really did work the way they thought it would. Someone above mentioned that this is part of a 'Plan 921' which started in 1992 and is still continuing. I'm going to have to check out now. That's one of the advantages of a stable political system, the ability to carry out a multi-decade or even multi-generational program. Our governmental/societal attention span is far too short for that.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
This looks like a knockoff of the Russian space station Mir.
Will it also be based on 30 year+ old Soviet technology?
...and their country will implode when we no longer have the money to buy the crap they manufacture. Lose-lose situation.
An American physicist named Gerard K. O'Neill explored ways to boot strap an in-space economy and the notion is sometimes referred to as The High Frontier. A permanent presence in space, and an in-space industrial economy would be useful for many things.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
China has plan to get nuclear energy resource from the Moon. Send spacecraft to the Mars (not new to US but who knows what is true motivation). Build the world biggest radio telescope in mountain. Build/divert a river from Tibet plateau to west desert... to name a few.
Everything comes from nothing.
Instead, we have commercial space already started. Now, we have to get the communist out of US CONgress (shelby, hutchinson, coffman, hatch, etc) and get new private space moving. The problem is that we have a number of old guards in CONgress that want to throw 10's of billions at various unworkable solutions. Constellation was a joke and a half, and was not funded during the 00's. And now SLS is the latest joke. WHen you have ppl like Shelby, Hutchinson, Coffman, and Hatch telling NASA how to build a rocket and who to use (oddly all of the companies were in these ppl's districts), then you know we have a command economy CONgress.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
They have a quarter of the world's population with an enormous pent-up demand. If they don't sell it to us they'll sell it to citizens of other countries for less, and to themselves for even less. Sure, it will mean a major economic readjustment, but China goes through those about once a generation anyway. The people are used to it, and even expect it. The US population on the other hand is woefully unprepared for an economic upset much worse than we just went through.
I lived in Peru during the hyperinflation of the late '80s, and while it was difficult people were able to adjust because they'd been through similar situations before. The US hasn't seen a major economic disruption since the 1930s, very few Americans are still alive who went through that. They're not going to adjust well when (not if) it happens.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
I have a horse that I suspect would fuck you to death. Will that make you happy? I suspect that nearly all here would be happy with you being gone and no longer posting such things.
We can not compare them. SpaceX has put up a capsule and returned it with only 7 years worth of work. They will in the next year or so, put up a rocket that will be 2.5 x the size of what China has done for the last 45 years. China has said that they can not approach the costs that SpaceX has. Bigelow will have a space station started in 3 years.
So, yeah, you are right. We should not compare CHina to America. It is not fair to China.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Seven years after the US launched its first astronaut in orbit, they had sent people to the moon."
And now, thirty years later, the USA is just about to lose its ability to launch astronauts as far as LEO. Good luck on the Chinese I say - more players the more interesting it gets, and it might spur the USA and others to think about manned flight again.
So much for holidays on the moon by the 1980s and astronauts on Mars by 2000....
That's kind of like saying an alcoholic will die if you stop selling him alcohol. In reality they'd be doing us a favor because it would force us to deal with economic realities now instead of putting them off 'till later (when it will be worse). Of course, it would be nice if we would deal with it before it becomes an imminent problem. For the time being the Chinese seem to feel that our debt is the most sound investment they can make (and they're not the only ones who feel that way).
Let's increase our Presidential term limits to six years, with no reelections. Then we don't have to worry about ridiculous escapades such as Carter's battle against his own administration to withdraw all troops from South Korea, because it was the only major unbroken campaign promise he had left...
True, the US sent men to the moon a few years after their first manned space flight. But, was it sustainable? Did the US followed through with a moon base and all that 2001 Space Odyssey dreams? Maybe the Chinese had studied the history of space exploration and decided not to repeat the US mistakes. Maybe they have a longer term and more sustainable plan for space exploration. You have to remember, the Chinese have more than 4000 years of advanced civilization behind them. This tends to make them more farsighted don't you think?
I'd bet the Chinese have plenty of big ambitions for their space station... like weaponizing it with missiles aimed downward at the USA.
And how are they going to protect it? We're already at the point where private actors can damage space assets up to and including geostationary orbit. If someone's satellite collides with an orbital nuclear weapons platform, is that an act of war?
I agree, but I don't think it's an "investment" in terms of "interest gained." Think of it as "China is loading the Titanic with lead blocks and making it sink faster." Then it will lose a whole bunch of capital, but emerge as a (the?) world superpower.
24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
Perhaps with this kind of ego boost they won't feel they need to prove their worth by conquering neighboring countries like Taiwan or annexing parts of India.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
Actually, I think that's a very good idea - maybe not six years, but double the actual term limit : in eight years, the president gets to do what he wants (with the caveat of having the Congress on his side), and he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected at the end. He can work on a project from the conception phase to the concretization without thinking about whether his electoral base will go for it. I don't see why it would be more dangerous to have a president for eight years instead of four. Can anybody?
...with an enormous pent-up demand
There is a reason it is 'pent-up'; most of their people are poor farmers.
If they don't sell it to us they'll sell it to citizens of other countries for less, and to themselves for even less.
...thereby making less money. How does that help them?
The US hasn't seen a major economic disruption since the 1930s
Ummmm.... read the news in the last few years? And we were also hit hard during the late 70's and early 90's. This isn't our first time going through this.
You're an American and under 70 years old, aren't you? You have no real concept what a serious economic disruption is. Think for a moment about buying a $1 CocaCola on May 1, and by May 31 that same bottle costs $10. Think about going to 10 different grocery stores and none of them have meat, milk or eggs because no one is selling to them since they don't know what the replacement price is going to be next week. Think about eating cornmeal mush for breakfast, lunch and dinner for three months because there is no money to buy potatoes or rice even if you could find them. Think about buying water by the bucket from the neighbor three blocks away who has a well because the municipal water system is out of funds. Think about sleeping in line because the gas station is going to open tomorrow and you can buy up to five gallons until it's gone.
That's what most of the world's population has lived through at least once, and know that they will again at some point. When it happen here you're likely to be surprised by how many people have guns, since I don't expect our spoiled population to accept that they're actually going to have to live without any gasoline, or penicillin, or fire service, or meat for days/weeks/months at a time.
thereby making less money. How does that help them?
Did you forget that they're a communist country? That's a command economy, things can cost what the central government says they cost and funds can be moved from one part of the economy to another at will (at least in the short term). They'll come to a new point of stability over the course of a decade or maybe less, and if they're producing internally consumed widgets at then end of it rather than externally consumed gewgaws that's their decision.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
And they're funding the development from all the phishing scams.
http://feeds.arstechnica.com/~r/arstechnica/index/~3/RTjp4tv83B4/fbi-businesses-lost-11m-over-12-months-to-china-based-phishers.ars
Think for a moment about buying a $1 CocaCola on May 1, and by May 31 that same bottle costs $10. Think about going to 10 different grocery stores and none of them have meat, milk or eggs because no one is selling to them since they don't know what the replacement price is going to be next week.
THAT'S what you think is going to happen if China doesn't buy up our debt? We have TOO much food in this country, not a shortage of it. And why would you buy CocaCola for $10? It won't be that price because no one will buy it.
Did you forget that they're a communist country?
And they have become an economic force by moving towards capitalism. Going back to communism won't make them better. USSR anyone?
Oh, cripes, you studied classical economics, didn't you? The price of a CocaCola was just an example of hyperinflation. Substitute bread, propane, welding rods, concrete, aluminum I-beams, electricity, 10w40 oil, whatever you want. If you get paid $1000 April 30 in this example you'd need $10,000 by May 31 to buy the same amount of products. I saw my salary go up by eight times one month, and was still behind inflation.
And the CocaCola would be that price, because if they sold it for less the replacement cost for their materials has risen and they'd be losing money. If they don't sell that bottle it will sit on the shelf until salaries catch up, because they don't have any choice.
You need to stop listening to the hallowed oracles of the Chicago School and see how things work in the real world.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Oh, cripes, you studied classical economics, didn't you?
No. What exactly do you mean by 'classical economics'? And why is that bad?
If you get paid $1000 April 30 in this example you'd need $10,000 by May 31 to buy the same amount of products.
...but the salaries in the US are stagnant. No company in the US is going to give 1,000% raises a month. Ever.
I saw my salary go up by eight times one month, and was still behind inflation.
So you lived in a country that had no idea how to handle their economy. Hyperinflation only happens if the government cranks out tons and tons of money to pump things up by several orders of magnitude. We aren't quite that stupid here.
If they don't sell that bottle it will sit on the shelf until salaries catch up, because they don't have any choice.
They will go out of business waiting for salaries to catch up. When gas prices shot up here a few years ago, people started using less gas. Guess what? Prices started to drop.
You need to stop listening to the hallowed oracles of the Chicago School and see how things work in the real world.
I have no idea what 'the hallowed oracles of the Chicago School' are (they only have one school in Chicago?) And I understand perfectly well how things work in the real world, thank you very much.