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Kdenlive 0.8 Adds Advanced Features for NLV Editing
dmbkiwi writes "For a long time I've been a big fan of Kdenlive. I've written two articles about it. One is a general overview of video editing on Linux and the other is more specific to Kdenlive. For a number of years, video editing on Linux – at least at a consumer level — has been patchy at best. This is somewhat ironic given the heavy use of Linux in major Hollywood blockbuster film production. However, with the advent of Kdenlive, things are looking pretty good and with the release of version 0.8, there have been some great features added for the more advanced users, while still retaining a simple and easy to use UI."
Official list of changes, not some blogpost -- http://www.kdenlive.org/discover/0.8
I am waiting a very easy way to do pixel accurate cropping and zooming. Simply just dragging with mouse a area to video and zoom in to see pixels (150% zoom?). Now I have not found any other way than play around the numbers and see a overlay on video to move by them.
What I think Kdenlive needs is something like Crop and rectangle selection tool in GIMP (Or photoshop if you really hate GIMP name!).
What is already easy on Kdenlive is use of the timeline and applying most effects. But to get even more users, video editing should be very easy for desktop recorders who does blog posts and other fancy things. And there you need zoom/crop feature to be a very easy.
What's this "Ediiting" (with double-i) mentioned in the title ?
1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
I use a folder full of tens of thousands of BMPs and some perl scripts that move them around as I command.
Yes something like avidemux2 sounds useful, it does something to an avi file.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Just like "PCB", a program to design printed circuit boards (PCBs). Now try to find some informations about it - yep, most of the results are about printed circuit boards, not about this program.
Hey - at least blender (rendering program) is among top pages, along with normal blenders.
Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
Before working to add new features, why not first make it so you can use it for 5 minutes without it segfaulting? How about making it so your savefiles aren't constantly becoming corrupt? Kdenlive shows great promise, but it's the least stable piece of software I've ever used.
Is this a news report or a trailer for a motion picture?
Annoyingly, the painful to use NLE in blender is still more stable. Saying Kdenlive is the best NLE for linux is still not saying much unfortunately. All those 'advanced' features have been available on non-linux NLEs for many years now. Not that that's a problem, I do all my comp, roto and tracking work in Nuke which runs really well on Linux. I just want a simple NLE, that won't crash, that has basic functions I can actually rely on, and can work with HD footage. PiTiVi is the closest to a good linux NLE imo, KDenlive regularly fell over, sometimes just when dragging large clips. I mean, there are all those nifty gnonlin bits in the gstreamer library to make writing a decent NLE in Linux a lot easier, but it still seems to be mission impossible on Linux. I was holding out hope for Lightworks when it went open source, but then they shipped it for windows first, and that beta is completely unusable. Hey-ho, got to keep that windows partition for either Premiere or Vegas.
Can those who own it please open source Speedrazor and make a very old video editor really bloody happy ? If you want to do serious compositing then a node based app like Nuke, Shake and Fusion make so much more sense, we just want rock solid editing out of our NLEs and nothing much else frankly. After Effects is a bloody mess, trying to copy/compete with it is madness, NLEs should be for EDITING.
Disclaimer : I've not breathed near Kdenlive for about six months, who knows, maybe it doesn't collapse in a heap so often now.
I just did a search for 'PCB linux' and it's the top hit on Google... If I search for 'PCB program' I get a few others first, but it's still on the front page. Obviously if you just search for an acronym you'll get results relevant to that first...
If I look for 'video editing linux' however, the top hit is a list of 5 apps from 2009 (which does mention kdenlive 0.7 to be fair), and the second dates back to 2007, so I suspect neither is that useful if you're looking for advice on the best one today. (Searching for 'video linux' just gives you loads of hits for playing, as you might expect.
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I know you're being funny, but a 'home user' probably won't know why they need to do that (or even if they do need to do that), let alone go looking for it.
A name that has some connection to what it does is useful, but since you're never going to guess it from nowhere (I need a video editing application, let's google for 'videdit'? no...) it's not required.
That said, a dumb-sounding name won't help you - until you're already popular, then it doesn't matter any more. Think about Linux, it's just a weak pun on the creator's name, and happily a near-anagram of Unix... hardly a 'meaningful' name like FreeBSD (with all due respect to Linus of course) and yet the name is never even talked about these days, everyone just knows what it is. Same with GIMP, how you can name a free 'clone' of photoshop after what Wikipedia calls "a type of sexual submissive in BDSM who may wear a bondage suit" and expect to be taken seriously I don't know (although I used the early versions and it did feel like I was being treated like one). But it's big enough now that people don't care.
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"Heavy use" is a huge overstatement. Yes, there have been some notable films in which special Linux applications played a part, but I don't think there's been a single "blockbuster" that was produced on Linux gear start-to-finish. I would be surprised if there was a single big-budget film that used Linux for the audio work.
I'm not saying the day will never come, but it's not there yet.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Why is it that people these days are so inclined to attribute names they don't like to arrogance? Haven't you considered that the global namespace is running out of good names so developers start using bad ones or non-English ones? Come on, VideoEdit can only be used once and it's probably trademarked too.
I fail to see the link where you point to the research that proves that names in the open source world are worse than in the proprietary world.
Look, naming is hard, and of course some names suck and could be replaced by something better. But you are nuts if you think that the naming that (for example) Apple does makes any sense to a non-English speaker. Even with the huge popularity of iTunes I've heard this name said in a lot of different ways (how is read in Spanish, and how is read in English, but with very different levels of success).
And with other products it's the same. I had a really hard time spelling Google or Youtube when they were not widely known. Does the Windows name give you any hint that is an operating system? And iOS is easy to write or to pronounce or understand? Why Photoshop is not for buying things? How the hell QuickTime makes you thinkg about video? And so on.
From the above article:
No, it isn't - he is confusing a render farm with an editing deck - a film could easily have a thousand machines in it's render farm, but it is a rare film that uses more than a handful of editing decks. Typically you can count them on one hand, and have enough fingers left to go bowling with...
That throw-away line in his post above prevents me from thinking his "overview" of consumer-level editing of video on Linux will be anything worth spending time on.
Ken
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/guides/2010/01/video-editing-in-linux-a-look-at-pitivi-and-kdenlive.ars
Conclusion
Demand for video editing tools is only going to increase. This is an area where Linux desperately needs to be competitive if there's hope for the Linux desktop going mainstream anytime soon.
PiViTi and Kdenlive show promise, but neither application is fully "there" just yet. PiTiVi is stable and intuitive, but lacks features. Kdenlive is very feature-rich, but needs to be stabilized just a bit; and some work could be done to make it more user-friendly. My first recommendation for doing video editing on Linux is definitely Kdenlive at this stage, though. It may not be as capable as a tool like, say, Final Cut Pro, but it does have most if not all of what many users need from a video editing application.
Progress is being made, but some work is needed to take these applications the "last mile" to be entirely suitable for mainstream use.
yup, that one took the cake.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
Same with GIMP, how you can name a free 'clone' of photoshop after what Wikipedia calls "a type of sexual submissive in BDSM who may wear a bondage suit" and expect to be taken seriously I don't know (although I used the early versions and it did feel like I was being treated like one). But it's big enough now that people don't care.
No, I think GIMP is still one of the stupidest of these naming blunders. Maybe you're used to it, but I don't think it's so ubiquitous no one notices.
It demuxes it too
The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
Your complaints are somewhat silly:
* Kdenlive is as good a name as Vegas when it comes to making sense for video editing. I suppose Apache (and Cherokee) was a horrible, politically incorrect name for a web server. Unfortunately trademark law prevents using names like "Non-Linear Video Editor", "Photograph Manipulation Editor", "Text Editor", or "Word Processor" because they are common descriptive names.
* Some names have roots in foreign languages and make perfect sense there but sound horrible here (Choquok - an amazing twitter client - is a perfect example)
* Unix itself is a play on Multics, which predates Stallman's great crusade.
* Things aren't designed to confuse people. They are usually designed by one person, who may not be as good as UI design as a six person UX team at a large development shop. In some cases, I've discovered that the graphical interface is wonky, but the keyboard interfaces is amazingly smooth. Unfortunately, doing UI redesigns is a huge to-do for end users who have in many cases become very adept at the original UI of a software package.
I guess its cooler to be the smart kid using different software than the ordinary people.
No, for me it costs a lot less, I can get things done, and if I want to customize, I can and do. In some cases the software is incredibly good at what it does. In other cases, the commercial alternatives are really a lot better, but I don't want to spend $, so you live with it. It's really not about being cool. It's about freedom as in having no encumbered rights and having the economic means to exercise them.
-- $G
Slightly off topic, but does anything actually support MKV? I've looked around and while the codec is probably fine, in practice that's pointless as nobody is bothering to produce software to use it. I've seen a half dozen open source and free products included it, none of which are currently being worked on and none of which are actually useful without a ton of knowledge about the program.
There's a fair number of packages which can read the files, but unlike the MKAs which are pretty easy to do, the video component has been a serious pain.
This is an area where Linux desperately needs to be competitive if there's hope for the Linux desktop going mainstream anytime soon.
Okay, look, I know we all believe that we know what's best for the market and what's in demand - but I am so sick of hearing this line pulled out. "What Linux really needs is ***** if it's to become acceptable in the mainstream". The reality is that there's no single app that will propel Linux into the mainstream magically, the best we can do is just continue to improve where we can and as we do we pick up more and more converts. We are long past a position where a single application will suddenly make Linux mainstream. For every application/area you knock off that list there will always be another one that raises its head.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing our best to deliver great new apps of good stability and functionality (like Inkscape, Scribus etc), I'm saying that the sky isn't falling if we don't deliver X Y or Z.
Paul.
Video editors are a must. I don't miss anything else.
The reality is that there's no single app that will propel Linux into the mainstream magically,
A single up won't make Linux mainstream, but not having that single app can very certainly hold it back from ever getting there, as people want an OS that can serve all their needs, not just 90%. The second you give people a reason to boot back into Windows, Linux will become that toy OS again with which they might play around once in a while, but which they won't actually ever use for their daily use.
Video editors are a must. I don't miss anything else.
For you, yes - but that's not mainstream in a global user sense. You want it to be, but it isn't. Yes a lot of people would love a good NLVE, myself included (I even bought a copy of MainActor for Linux before the bastards took it away - still it crashed more frequently than even Kdenlive!) but it's not something that'll stop everyone migrating to Linux (just like the lack of 100% VBA script compatibility in LibreOffice doesn't stop people migrating), hell most people have no idea what a NLVE is, let alone use one.
I never used or wanted to use Mainactor. Actually I would be happy with Pinnacle Studio Videospin, the freeware version. Until recently there was no comparable video editor available at all and no usable way to edit videos on Linux.
Maybe it's the developer in me. One becomes proficient with eye-rolling every time someone vouches for their wanted feature "because without it your software will not become mainstream". It's a self-serving tactic, trying to get what you want by pushing the fear of obscurity, which likely just takes time away from more needed work. We all have different ways of trying to coax the world to our bidding, that one tends to make me put it into the last position in the consideration queue. It happens in all areas, software, electronics development, hell even model aircraft design and most of the time where people have succumbed to the whims, it turns out the 'feature' really didn't make as big an impact as portrayed.
Good thing you didn't go with MA... the demo seemed to work okay... but the production version was like trying to stop a jello mould from wobbling. It wasn't the first or last Linux package I've ever purchased (Closed and Open) but it was certainly the worst purchase.
* Kdenlive is as good a name as Vegas when it comes to making sense for video editing.
No, it isn't. It's part of the stupidity to name everything for KDE with a "K" or KD or even KDE at the beginning. A cheap and failed attempt to copy the "i" meme from Apple, but for various reasons it doesn't work half as good. Copying good marketing badly does not give you good marketing, and the "K" thing is just dumb.
Names for products need to be pronouncable, easy to remember and difficult to confuse. "Kdenlive" falls on all three counts. For starters, it helps if they're actually, you know, names, not random gobbled-together parts of words.
* Things aren't designed to confuse people. They are usually designed by one person, who may not be as good as UI design as a six person UX team at a large development shop. In some cases, I've discovered that the graphical interface is wonky, but the keyboard interfaces is amazingly smooth. Unfortunately, doing UI redesigns is a huge to-do for end users who have in many cases become very adept at the original UI of a software package.
UI design is one of the most important parts of creating a good application, and the part most often ignored in the Free Software community. That's perfectly good if you are scratching your own itch, because in that case it must mostly be useful to and useable by you. And if you give it for free to the world, they can adapt to your style or die for all you care, because in the end you're writing the thing for your own need.
What too few people have realized is that Free Software (or open source, whatever term works for you) is a horrible development model for software you write exclusively for other people. People need motivation to work on stuff. Creating something for yourself has its own intrinsic motivation, creating something for others doesn't.
And designing something specifically different from how you like it best takes a lot of motivation, because you go against yourself, in a way. That's why good UIs are not designed by coders, but by UI experts - people who may not have a personal interest in this particular product, but who enjoy the general topic of UI design enough to have made it a job. That (plus the money) gives them the motivation required.
Look around yourself and you'll notice how most Free Software is seriously lacking in UI design. It is quite often comparable or superior to commercial programs when it comes to functionality and features, but the UI commonly rates somewhere between "horrible" and "acceptable" and very rarely above that.
And that's one of the main reasons that the "year of the Linux desktop" has never come. Mainstream people don't want to put up with that shit, they don't use their computer in order to gloat about technology, they use to get stuff done.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Kdenlive is not as good a name as Vegas, because I have no clue about how to pronounce it which also make it very difficult to remember the name.
If "going mainstream" means looking and acting more like Windows, then No!, thanks. I'm already pissed at default double-click, having to use Ctrl C and Ctrl V in Open Office, and putting the reload button on the location bar in Firefox. Please don't dumb down Linux any further. A decent Gnome video editor would be nice, though.
Ah. You mean like:
Avid
Smoke
Flame
DS Nitris
Lightworks
Premiere
Etc
There's also OpenShot and, at some point, Lombard. I initially used PiTiVi but I found OpenShot to be superior in most ways, though PiTiVi's UI is a bit more polished (but then, it just does a lot less). Just installed Kdenlive, and it looks fantastic, I'll try that the next time around. For instance, it apparently supports freezing a frame out-of-the-box, something neither PiTiVi nor OpenShot can do AFAIK. Hmm... actually, I guess you can set the speed to 0x in OpenShot, that'd should accomplish the same thing.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
No, it isn't. It's part of the stupidity to name everything for KDE with a "K" or KD or even KDE at the beginning. A cheap and failed attempt to copy the "i" meme from Apple
Apple fanboy, eh? KDE community has actually been using this naming convention for years and years and years, all the way from the beginnings of KDE. Way before Apple started using the 'i'-meme across the board of their products. So we could just as well claim Apple is the one copying the meme from KDE if we follow your logic.
Names for products need to be pronouncable, easy to remember and difficult to confuse. "Kdenlive" falls on all three counts. For starters, it helps if they're actually, you know, names, not random gobbled-together parts of words.
Random gobbled-together words or terms, eh? Like for example ColdFusion, RoboHelp, Alcohol 120% etc.? Those are all confusing names which really don't say much about the product itself and seem like completely random words. KDenlive ain't really different from those, it consists of two clear terms: KDE and enlive. I do agree that using 'KDE' or 'K' at the beginning of every damn application is silly, but...really, there's a lot of even worse names in the commercial space and yet many of those products are perfectly good and actually pretty successfull.
* Kdenlive is as good a name as Vegas when it comes to making sense for video editing.
Sony Vegas is the version aimed at professionals though, the version aimed at customers is called "Sony Vegas Movie Studio". Apple calls theirs "Final Cut Express", Microsoft has "Windows Live Movie Maker".
Granted, Kdenlive might not be too bad in a menu if it says Kdenlive (Video Editor) but by itself it's quite non-descript. Even knowing what it is hard to work out the abbreviation as KDE Non-LInear Video Editor. It's not a particularly bad name, but no more than a passing grade.
My experience with it was that it'd open my HDV clips but crash within 30 seconds of navigating the file, so I'm taking this announcement with a big pinch of salt. It was very much so not ready last time I tried it.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
What is your problem dude? The program is for free and you can use it or not. Nobody is forcing you to use it.
If you really have a problem with the name or the UI than create a bug report (http://www.kdenlive.org/mantis/my_view_page.php) and let see if the developers like your change. If you still insist of a new name than by all means, just fork the project and release it under a new name. You can even sell it with a new name and if you redesign the UI you can sell it with a new UI.
"And that's one of the main reasons that the "year of the Linux desktop" has never come. Mainstream people don't want to put up with that shit, they don't use their computer in order to gloat about technology, they use to get stuff done."
Interesting, because that's the reason why I don't bother to use Windows anymore. Because I want my stuff just be done and I don't want to bother with technology. Linux enables me just to do that. You just grab a Linux CD like Fedora, install it on the computer and it will run for the years to come. Everything you will need can be installed by the package manager and I don't need to be bothered with drivers or anti-virus crap. Even if you get a new computer, just swap out the hard disk and you have your old system on the new computer.
Everything just runs smooth, no trouble at all. The "year of the Linux desktop" won't come because you have to install a distribution yourself and because all the games are for Windows only. If you could just go to Mediamarkt and get a Fedora 14 laptop or desktop (with all stuff installed like Mp3 and Dvd read), I guarantee you, you will have less trouble with it than the crap Windows 7 you get.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
Apple? What do they have to do with this? KDE's K-obsession and Gnome's similar G-naming predates the Apple hype by quite a bit. When KDE got started in 1996 Apple was still selling beige boxes with a crashy OS which lacked memory protection and only did 'cooperative multitasking'. It was not until 2001 that Apple finally launched its own Unix-based desktop operating system. Should I say that Apple copied KDE and Gnome...? and CDE... and Solaris... and Ultrix... and Apollo/Domain... and all the others. Come to think of it, this would not have been the first time that Apple based its offerings on something it gleaned from some other team - Xerox PARC is where the WIMP-interface got started after all.
In short, stop comparing everything computer-related to Apple as if they are the bellwether which all others slavishly follow.
--frank[at]unternet.org
Oh, and the fact that everyone keeps trying to reinvent the wheel.
Ugh yes. Every time I go to look for NLE for Linux I try everything I can find. Every time there's more tools than there were before. Every time they are all crashy or inscrutable and undocumented, or both. I sure wish we'd had more training in cooperation in school and less in competition. I know I'm not the only one around these parts who found that taking over groups was the only way to get shit done and there was always tons of dead weight that refused to get on board no matter who was leading. But having to run everything all the time is poor preparation for knowing when to let go...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I've been using Kdenlive ever since it's port to Qt4, and it works very, very well. It has tons of options and effects, so even the most novice users can make something nice with a little effort. It has a bit of a leaning curve, but any "pro" software usually does. It fits in well with my desktop and Pulseaudio, even though I use GNOME and not KDE. If you've given up on video editing for Linux and haven't tried Kdenlive, you really should try it. It's not the most feature-filled editor, but it's great for casual and semi-pro users. And by great, I mean fantastic!
"Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
Random gobbled-together words or terms, eh? Like for example ColdFusion, RoboHelp, Alcohol 120% etc.?
You may have noticed that all of these are easy to pronounce and remember, and there are no "near-misses" that make as much sense. That's what a good name needs to be like. Kdenlive does not link to any known terms, which makes it hard to remember without additional mnemonic aids. "ColdFusion", just to pick one of the examples, does not make sense as a product name (which has nothing to do either with temperature or nuclear power), but it's two well-known, easily recalled terms. It is unique enough to be remembered, it is pronouncable without effort.
Those are important things. That's how word-of-mouth works. "I found this great video editing tool. If only I could remember what it was called, Kenl-something or so." just doesn't cut it.
Yes, there are stupid names in the commercial space. I must have missed the memo about it being a good idea to copy the failures.
Yes, even if they are successful. You can be successful despite a stupid name. But why make it more difficult then it has to be?
And there are good examples. Broadcast and Cinerella were great examples for naming. Cinerella especially works so well that I still remembered it without looking it up 7 or 8 years after I've last checked on it. I doubt anyone who doesn't use Kdenlive will remember "that video editing software" name even three weeks from now.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
It's pronounced so the last syllable rhymes with "hive", rather than "give".
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
And designing something specifically different from how you like it best takes a lot of motivation, because you go against yourself, in a way. That's why good UIs are not designed by coders, but by UI experts - people who may not have a personal interest in this particular product, but who enjoy the general topic of UI design enough to have made it a job. That (plus the money) gives them the motivation required.
No, the primary reason UI design shouldn't be done by the coder is that to the coder it's clear box testing, he knows the architecture, the design and exactly what strings he's pulling in the code so to him it makes perfect sense. To the user this is a big black box, he doesn't know anything about the inner workings of it and has to rely on only what the UI tells him. You can't shed that extra information and pretend to know no more than a user, no matter how hard you try.
Sure UI experts would be great, but I think most UI designs would be a lot better if they were designed by someone who didn't know the code, who deliberately didn't take too many lectures from the coders on the inner workings, who wouldn't know much written in mailing lists and forums except basic tutorials. Here's the application, here's the documentation, does the UI make sense on its own? Coders could be decent UI designers, just not on their own projects because you know too much. There should be an exchange program of some kind, you try making sense of my UI and I'll try making sense of yours. Then you'll see how much harder it gets without the invisible dotted lines you have in your head.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
hmm I think if was looking for a pfs gui, that the name "Qtpfsgui" would have immediately told me what it was, a gui for pfs in QT. granted that's not a good marking name, but oh well.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
What is your problem dude? The program is for free and you can use it or not. Nobody is forcing you to use it.
My problem is that it pains me to see so much talent wasted because the Free Software stuff is so often excellent quality with a crappy exterior. There's these V10 engines that can go 100 km on 3 litres with making hardly any noise - and they put them into Yugos.
People rarely buy cars just for the engine. They want to sit comfortably in them and they want to drive them without a Ph.D.
just fork the project and release it under a new name. You can even sell it with a new name and if you redesign the UI you can sell it with a new UI.
I stopped contributing to Free Software development years ago when I realized that it's a net negative for me - I spent more time working on software than I spent actually using it. I did contribute quite a bit back then, but I also learnt that lots of Free Software people are too much in love with their projects to take a good advise - or patch. Which, again, is a perfectly ok attitude if you run the project to scratch your own itch. But then don't be surprised if the mainstream doesn't share your personal style.
That's my main point. Make up your mind and decide what you want to be - scratching your own itches or making a mainstream product. You can't do both. And no, you can't do both no matter how much you try to argue that you can.
Interesting, because that's the reason why I don't bother to use Windows anymore.
*nod* yes, once you've been outside of the windows mindset for a while, you start to wonder how anyone can get any work done on that abomination of user masochism. I just found that Linux is better but not by enough, and especially that it copies way too much from windos, probably in an attempt to "win over" windos users, so I moved on to OS X and I've not looked back.
I still love Linux to death - everywhere that doesn't have a GUI. All my servers run Debian, which means my company runs on Linux - but my development happens on OS X.
And I love Free Software, I couldn't do without it. Firefox beats Safari any day. It's UI is still crap. It's ok because there aren't any better alternatives right now, apparently nobody has yet figured out how to do a really great browser UI. But ever since I've done some actual research and work on HCI, ironically started by an overlap of Gnome and my other professional interest, computer security (which suffers massively from the same "the user is stupid" hybris), I've become very sensitive to failures in UI design, many of whom most users probably don't notice consciously.
But if you've ever used Keynote vs. Impress you know just how much of a difference some effort into UI design can make. And Keynote is far from perfect - but compared to Impress, you spend a considerable amount of time less on fighting with the interface. And don't even get me started on PowerPoint - if there's one piece of software that Dr. Who should throw into one of those gaps that eradicate it from all of history so nobody even remembers it, this is it. :-)
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
No, the primary reason UI design shouldn't be done by the coder is that to the coder it's clear box testing, he knows the architecture, the design and exactly what strings he's pulling in the code so to him it makes perfect sense. To the user this is a big black box, he doesn't know anything about the inner workings of it and has to rely on only what the UI tells him. You can't shed that extra information and pretend to know no more than a user, no matter how hard you try.
Yes, that's another reason, though you can do end user testing to reach that goal if you don't have access to someone unfamiliar with the code.
Sure UI experts would be great, but I think most UI designs would be a lot better if they were designed by someone who didn't know the code, who deliberately didn't take too many lectures from the coders on the inner workings, who wouldn't know much written in mailing lists and forums except basic tutorials. Here's the application, here's the documentation, does the UI make sense on its own?
Actually, I think the problem is the development direction. Free Software is usually designed from functionality to interface, because you want to get something done, and when it's working you slap on an interface.
Good software is designed from interface to code - the software needs to do something for the user, figure out how the process looks to the user first, then implement the technology.
For simple parts, the difference between those two approaches is purely theoretical, but when you think about complex activities, it makes a considerable difference. Writing a GUI for an existing command-line script is sometimes more cumbersome than re-writing the whole thing with a GUI from the start.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
There is a well named product for movies called kino.
Kdenlive in very short time dwarfed it in terms of features without being much more difficult to use for simple stuff.
Names might be important but features/price, documentation and stability count more, especially when softpedia and countless others will tag software product by function whatever their name is.
---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
It's Cinelerra, not Cinerella.
Mada mada dane.
MKV isn't a codec, it is a container format so can contain pretty much any codec you want.
thanks tom, you are handling all the responses for me. we are pretty much in agreement...
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
Yes, I mean exactly like those. They are memorable, and workable, and marketable. That's my point.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
I'd love to just move over to linux, but all of my component suppliers only support windows(some not even vista/7 only XP). Also there isn't anything like autocad (btw like autocad in this case means 100% compatibility with autocad. All macros, blocks, everything needs to work), inventor, revit, on linux.
So while I would love to use linux for work, and have a useful scripting language, and programs that understand that the data that comes out may not be in the form I need it to be in... but I'm stuck with windows XP.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
What's pfs, to a casual user?
You can see why it's not "year of Linux on the desktop".
"Yes maam, just load that kernel module dynamically using the following easy command, making sure you have root on your box...."
There's a reason Android has been so successful in the mobile space: abstraction. Sure, have the esoteric stuff down in the core that advanced users can mess with directly, but goodness me, if your GUI level stuff is just as impenetrable then newbies will have a learning curve similar to famous Eve Online one.
This is doubly true for applications - you might get a pass for system setup stuff, maybe, but there's no excuse for "Kdenlive" or "GIMP" or "Qtpfsgui".
The zealots who want everyone to use Linux are rarely the people who contribute code. The people who code are usually not particularly concerned with whether or not 605dave likes the name. Besides, there are always some people who will complain about the name no matter what it is. Also, there is no "marketing dept" to sit around all day making up new buzzwords and running up the cost of services/goods.
Besides, if you think about things that have been super popular that have names like flickr, digg, slashdot, google, yahoo, lycos, etc one can easily see that the name has almost nothing to do with whether or not it becomes popular.
Caveat Utilitor
The point is that everyone bemoans the lack of penetration of Linux on the desktop, yet when you dare criticise it for some of the reason that this might be the case you get hit with the biggest barrier to adoption: the "butthurt Linux Defender" who tells you to shove your suggestions up your ass and if you don;t like it you can get lost because it's been given to you for free dammit!
No one is forcing me to use Linux, and with the attitude I have come across in some circles there really is no compelling reason for me to keep learning (I have Ubuntu on a Powerbook mainly used to see what this Linux thing is all about) - I can just go back to my OS of choice.
Now, I'd be unfair if I painted every Linux user that way - there's clearly a large number of them who are very helpful and are just as exasperated with the "we know it's impenetrable to do anything more than basic setup" who wrote guides and extensive forum posts - I'd never have got through some of the more basic tasks
that were giving me problems during setup (or after some updates that suddenly broke random things tht didn;t seem to be connected to the thing I updated).
Now, Ubuntu have tried to make it a painless as possible for a total newbie to get started, and what do they get? The accusation that they're "dumbing down Linux"
I really want to like Linux, if I can get it running smoothly on my Powerbook it will make an excellent little machine for when I'm not at my desk, but so far it has been hit and miss. It's just too... I won;t say "hard", but I will say "unintuitive" to do some things, and some stuff is just plain weird.
I tried a Kbuntu Live CD to give KDE a try compared to Gnome (was fed up looking at brown! j/k) and the Live CD worked great! The wireless worked just fine (like it did on Gnome), but then when I installed the CD so it would boot from the disc, the wireless stopped working and I have been unable to get it working again when nothing has changed! I was sure it had to do with the proprietary wireless driver for the Airport Express card, but even the cafeful forum instructions from helpful people could not get it going again. Drop back to Gnome: it works again! I'm not really sure why the window manager should have such an effect on something that I thought was handled by something unrelated to it, but there it is.
My experiences with it are that it would be quite easy to learn *if* you had an expert sitting next to you to answer the myriad questions that pop up, or solve that *one* little speedbump that appears in a long chain of stuff that you don't know how to deal with.
As it is, I have kept OS X 10.5 on the machine too, so I can dual boot if I need to take my laptop anywhere - I am just not comfortable with Ubuntu enough not to keep a crutch nearby that I know how to work with quickly and easily if something throws me off - like the wireless problem, or if I want a hardware-accelerated UI (still can't get that to work in KDE or Gnome, and I suspect it *can* work, I'm just missing something obvious).
> The point is that everyone bemoans the lack of penetration of Linux on the desktop,
Try saying something productive.
We aren't here to stroke your ego. If you say something stupid or offensive, we will tell you.
Of course whining about stupid minutia that aren't even restricted to Linux will get you slapped down.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I like Kdenlive, but I can't edit most over-the-air HD content. Most of the time when I import the video clip, the video is white (effectively no video), but there is audio.
Video plays in Xine (but audio messes up) and VLC after a brief stutter at the start plays the audio and video perfectly.
Despite posting samples from videos, nobody has come up as to why Kdenlive does this. I can only guess that the software starts recording in the wrong part of a GOP, and that's what is screwing up the playback / editing of video. It's also strange because Kdenlive will edit my HD video camera footage without problem.
Having said that, Avidemux is good basic editing apart from MPEG4 footage where it cannot keep frame accuracy with audio (keeps on warning to accept or reject it's recommendations on file opening, but makes no difference).
I suppose it's easier to summarise that video editing software is still a bit of a black art.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
> Video editors are a must. I don't miss anything else.
That said. Any video editor should take the user's stuff in whatever form it come in and not give them any grief. It should "just work".
This is one of those areas where Macs intentionally make themselves more limited/difficult than Windows or even Linux.
Don't just focus on what might be a bad product with too much hype behind it. Also see what could use improvement.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I don't do much video editing, but another one I've read is supposed to be decent is openshot.
http://www.openshotvideo.com/
They are at version 1.3 and have nice documentation.
"It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees." - Albert Camus
What are currently the options of linear video editors available on Linux? I know there is dvswitch, but any competing projects in that direction?
Support Eachother, Copy Dutch Property!
Actually, I've started to think maybe Linux isn't ready for the normal user without having a nerd friend to help him. Hell, most people can't even run Windows without screwing it up.
The fact is, almost all Linux users ARE more computer literate and savvy than almost all Windows users. No need to try to look superior when you actually ARE superior.
The awful names aren't a Linux thing, they're a geek thing (Asperger's?). How is wifi in any way descriptive? Bluetooth? TWAIN? The difference between free and paid software is that paid software comes from companies with marketing departments. The only marketing you'll see for Linux is servers, etc, that corporations are producing.
You don't expect a ballerina to be a good wrestler, and you don't expect an anthroplogist to be good a physics. In the same way, you don't expect a programmer to be good at marketing (or a salesman to be good at programming).
Free Martian Whores!
So in what way is that stupid or offensive (also note that this is my second post in the thread), or looking for my ego to be stroked?
I am simply offering a point of view based on my experiences on slashdot over the years.
If you think that the issues concerning the ease of use of Linux, or using descriptive names that only really help power users is "stupid minutia", then congratulations, you are proving my point for me - the one I made initially. Now, I have a thick skin and things just roll off me, but consider how the attitude affects the perception of a new Linux user.
"I'm new to Linux and I am struggling to do [X], I've looked it up and still having issues"
"Piss off sonny, we're not here to stroke your ego, you must be at least *this* elitist to use Linux"
*user goes back to Windows or Mac*
Now, maybe *you* don't care about growing the user base, and in fact maybe you want to keep it small so you can be cool, elite and alternative, but I'm not sure that viewpoint is shared by all. S/N ratio is a little skewed though, in my experience.
...everyone just knows what [Linux] is
Actually, no. IT people and nerds in general know what it is, but go to your neighborhood bar and ask people if they've ever heard of Linux. People I talk to are amazed that there's a free and superior replacement for Windows that doesn't get viruses and costs nothing to use. Not only have they never heard of it, they don't believe it even exists until they bring me a "broken" computer that's been rendered useless by viruses or a corrupted registry, have no install CDs, and I put Linux on it for them.
Hell, one time I brought a netbook I'd installed kubuntu on to the bar, and people would ask "what version of Windows is that?"
Free Martian Whores!
I wouldn't put a name with a Levenshtein difference of 1 to a Disney movie (and to the name of a fairy tale if you're in an English-speaking region) down as having no sensible near-misses.
(Of course the sibling pointed out that the name is actually different from what you remembered, which does put a different kind of damper on your argument regarding that name,)
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Where the hell do they get the resources to do user testing?
Friends and family.
Sure, it won't reach the quality of a lab with testers selected to represent the target audience and paid to have patience and go through it all again and again - but it's a lot better than nothing, and still much better than testing only on yourself.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Both true.
And still - the similarity to a well-known name (movie or fairy tale, doesn't matter) is what makes it so easy to recall.
And that I was wrong about the exact name - yes I was and still the #1 Google hit on my wrong term is the correct website.
Does that tell you something about this name working?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Dude, these people aren't GUI experts. Designing a GUI takes a different skill-set than that of creating quality code.
Skill sets can be acquired. If you have the motivation and desire. Which is why I'm saying make up your mind. If you want to scratch your own itches, fine with me, just stop whining about Linux not making it into the mainstream. If you want to hit the mainstream, get the skills necessary for making that happen.
The devs are not your bitches. Your not paying them. You don't have them under contract.
You are not saying anything that's news in this thread. Again, I'm not saying "make stuff for me". I'm saying that if you want to go mainstream, then by definition you are making stuff for other people. So be clear about that and accept it - or don't do it and stop whining.
You make stuff either for yourself or for others - never both. Sure, sometimes people find the stuff you make for yourself useful and use it, too. And sometimes you find your own product is something you like using yourself. But don't kid yourself thinking you can merge these two things. The only way to combine them is to make stuff that neither you nor anyone else really wants.
So make up your mind, and stick with it. Scratch your own itch and tell the users that they're welcome to use the thing, and if they want to suggest improvements you're listen or not depending on your mood and they may be accepted or not depending on whether you think they're useful to you.
And stop the damn whining that Linux isn't mainstream. Everything mainstream is because it is made for the mainstream.
And his name is The Doctor, not Dr. Who, which is the name of the show. Nerd fail.
True. It's sunday and I had an excellent saturday night, so I'm tired. Oh wait, is that another nerd fail? Damn, deeper down the gutter. Next I know I'll have to exchange my /. ID for something with more digits. :-)
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Right, but what I'm saying is that aren't any decent authoring programs, the ones referenced on their site are mostly out of date and no longer being worked on. Sure you can play them, but good luck actually making them as the tutorials and software to do so aren't particularly user friendly. I ended up giving up on that for backing up my DVDs and just store them as ISOs, at least with VLC and a few others I can just read those directly rather than have to screw around with a container format that I can't figure out.
Which is a shame, because I've really grown fond of MKA instead of the alternatives for storing albums.
OOPS, hit submit too soon.
A gimp is someone with a bad, or "gimpy", leg. The word and that definition is way older than I am; I've heard it all of my 59 years. Look up GIMP you find the Gnu Image Manipulation Program with a link to "disambuigation" that lists your BSOM; and I'd bet money that the sex term is newer than the Gnu IMP. Also, I notice that wikipedia doesn't mention the now-politically incorrect original meaning of "gimp".
Gimp
You don't watch Monty Python? They used the slang dictionary useage in the skit that starts out with men in a rowboat and one asks "How long is it?" one of the sailors is to be eaten and the response is "ugh, with a gimpy leg?"
Also, there are some fairly gimpy mathematics."
Free Martian Whores!
You can see why it's not "year of Linux on the desktop".
"Yes maam, just load that kernel module dynamically using the following easy command, making sure you have root on your box...."
Are you trolling, ignorant little Windows user? Installing Linux is far easier than installing Windows, and not once does one have to go to a shell prompt. The whole process is inside a GUI, and unlike Windows there's only a single reboot.
I've been using Linux for almost ten years and I almost never see a shell prompt. Actually, I find myself at a DOS prompt at work using Windows far more than I need a shell prompt at home using Linux.
There needs to be a moderation of "ignorant" as a counterbalance to "informative". Your stupid comment sure needs one, although I guess "troll" suffices. Now get back under that Redmond bridge, troll.
Free Martian Whores!
In this case it does but depending on how many people misspell which name you might end up with the product getting a much lower rank. I'd still stay away from Disney names. ;) Plus it's not that big on the speakability front, either - people who only hear it might end up spelling it "Cinelara", which only gets results because of Google's autocorrection feature.
It's certainly a better name than "Kdenlive", though, although I find Kdenlive to be rather pronouncable if you say "k-den-live". Sounds horrible but is fairly easy to say and to write correctly after having heard it.
The real problem is that product naming is really hard given that you don't want your product to be buried under millions of Google results for the same word in a different context, the namespace of easily-remembered names is limited and you ideally want a name that describes your product, as well.
Open source developers have long just looked for unique names that describe the program and are comfortable to type in a shell. Which is perfectly fine if you don't intend on competing with commercial software as it sidesteps a lot of issues you don't need to optimize for. Once you do compete on the market, however, you should consider a rebranding.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Hilarious. I post on slashdot all the time, and have been called "one of the most disgusting mac fanbois ever to exist".
I haven't used Windows in... well, some time. At least a decade. It depends if you count tech support for relatives.
Your post is *exactly* what my post is all about, and in fact with the other troll reply we are so for 2 for 0 on "douchebag replies" to a post that is critical of the Linux experience, from someone who has personally experienced it.
If you read carefully you'll note that my install went fine - I've done it a few times actually with different versions of Ubuntu, but that anything beyond that steamlined experience becomes very unintuitive very quickly.
My experience with the wireless drivers for my Airport card, for example. Now, I'm sure there's a gui way to install and configure them, but the help, located by a forum search, uses the shell to do so. Fine by me, I use the shell all the time in OS X - it's very handy, but I'm fortunate to have some experience with it. Someone less computer savvy is going to be totally lost.
Or we have the "works fine on the Live CD, then fails to work when installed". Sure, it was nice and smooth but I still can't fathom why it stopped working properly when it was installed vs running off the CD on the same hardware.
And then we get to the main point. My post is not "savaging" Linux, or calling it useless, or "a toy OS that's worthless for any real work" - you know, the sort of criticism I get levelled at my primary OS (OS X) on slashdot all the time, yet when I raise my concerns with an OS that I am seriously trying to get to grips with and be as comfortable using as OS X I get called "an ignorant little Windows user" in the most derisive, derogatory and condescending tone that is possibly to convey in text. Not only is it inaccurate (I haven't personally owned a windows box since Win 2k), you also then laughably go on to dismiss my issues and instead talk about how streamlined the Linux install process is.
My issues with the wireless card are after install, when it's sitting at the desktop having *not installed my wireless drivers correctly during the smooth install process* that were working *perfectly* from the Live CD, and my subsequent attempts to reinstall and tweak them.
This is the attitude I have come to expect from many Linux users when bringing up issues with the OS. It's somehow never Linux's fault, and always that we're "ignorant little Windows users" that really should be kissing your fucking feet for even *daring* to suggest that we're having anything less than a perfect and seamless experience with Linux, and that any problems are of our own making.
It's no wonder so many people say "it's just not worth the hassle". Colour me unsurprised that the marketshare for desktop Linux is so low, if this is how newbies are treated.
You should be fucking ashamed of yourself. You're doing more to hurt Linux adoption than a thousand obscurely named programs. At least you can look up what they do so you can find the one you need. With people like you it's a struggle not to just turn off the computer and say "well, fuck it then, I'm clearly not 1337 enough to just suddenly know everything or have it all work instantly on the first try".
'm not saying we shouldn't be doing our best to deliver great new apps of good stability and functionality (like Inkscape, Scribus etc), I'm saying that the sky isn't falling if we don't deliver X Y or Z.
The problem here is that Inkscape, Scribus, and the rest, are routinely ported to Windows or begin as a native Windows app. There is no compelling reason to migrate to Linux.
"PiTiVi" hurts my eyes - and "Pitiful Video" is an all too plausible mnemonic. I have never understood why the FOSS dveloper insists on shooting himself in the foot.
Ever tried Cinellera? Already years and years support for true HD editing and intermediate editing, before any Windows program allowed mortals to do so. Next to that, your 3d site program - Blender3D - also includes an NLE.
Support Eachother, Copy Dutch Property!
I would be extremely interested in this if it could create and save digital cinema files for professional digital projector/servers for movie theatres. For creating custom policy trailers and pre-show ads.
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
For further context, my other post in this article, re: Linux issues from personal experience.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2117310&cid=35991006
Of course, if you want me to get back under my *Cupertino* Bridge, then by all means.
Windows user! Ha! The most hilarious assumptions in the course of a "someone dared criticise Linux!" butthurt reply ever.
Okay, look, I know we all believe that we know what's best for the market and what's in demand - but I am so sick of hearing this line pulled out. "What Linux really needs is ***** if it's to become acceptable in the mainstream". (...) We are long past a position where a single application will suddenly make Linux mainstream.
Not one application, but one application suite - the problem is that one is a steep mountain to climb. Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook = Microsoft Office Pro (plus a bit more junk, but they're not that relevant). Taking down one won't be enough because they sell as a package, if you try buying them individually forget all deals. The only deal you get is if you take the whole Office package.
If you could topple that then many, many office PCs would switch to Linux, together with web based apps most would not need Windows. I of course assume it is also available on Windows so all that depend on it can work with the rest of the company. Many people would start using at home what they use at work, if you've already sunk the cost of learning it that's great.
Good luck on that one though, Word is THE document creator, Excel THE spreadsheet, Powerpoint THE presentation tool and Outlook(/Exchange) THE collaboration tool. Each of them is a Photoshop-class giant in their own right and honestly OpenOffice and iWork has done little to change that. The rest is really chasing the home desktop, but that's so many different things to so many people it does take 100s of apps to cover.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The guys at KDE aren't really known for coming up with the best names, but get your facts straight. KDE has been naming their apps with Ks right from KDE's inception. It's not a clone of an Apple meme.
You really should learn that taste is different. There are a lot of Gnome users but for me I can't use anything else but KDE. I try Gnome, Xfce, and other, but I can't use them and go every time back to KDE. At least for me KDE improves my productivity big time. If anything else, KDE would be the only reason I would stay with Linux.
For me MacOS looks like eye candy with no functionality. You complain about bad UI but MacOS have the split-view in their file manager, the top menu bar and the dock down below. Further it has only one mouse button and the horrible keyboard. That and the mirror-like monitors for the Macs makes for me Linux >>> Windows > MacOS.
KDE and Gnome have a common UI with Windows, because that is the common denominator. Only MacOS have the "think different" UI. With is good for some, but not for me and not for the millions of Linux and Windows users out there.
Further, I have to yet encounter really bad UI design in Open Source projects. Most of the time the UI may lack eye candy but it is highly functional and you tent not to fight the UI but the UI is supporting the work flow. It is much better than some commercial projects, for the reason that usually the developers are using their own application. Actually, my desktop contains 99% open source applications and I wouldn't say that any of them have a bad UI.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
No, the proper way to edit video is to do it in Emacs.
Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
Don't forget Shake and Nuke.
Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
You really should learn that taste is different.
What makes you think that I don't know that?
Taste certainly is different. Good design vs. bad design - not half as much a matter of taste as most people think. Design isn't the question of "which colour", but stuff like putting the light switch near the door instead of into the middle of the corridor.
For me MacOS looks like eye candy with no functionality.
I'm certain if you only look, then the eye candy is the most obvious thing. Use it for a while if you want to talk about usability ;-)
MacOS [...] has only one mouse button and the horrible keyboard.
Are you mistaking the user interface for the hardware that comes with the computer that the operating system that contains the user interface runs on? That's three layers off the target.
Oh, also: Apple mice have had 2 buttons for years now. And yes, as an old Linux user I need at least three so I own a Logitech mouse for use with my iMac.
Further, I have to yet encounter really bad UI design in Open Source projects.
Too bad the Interface Hall of Shame was discontinued before Free Software became so popular, I'm sure there would be plenty of examples with detail explanations in it.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I'd still stay away from Disney names. ;)
Maybe everyone else thought of the 1977 movie. ;-) (to be honest, I had to look that up, but like most Disney stuff, there are a lot of other works on the same subject.
"k-den-live". Sounds horrible but is fairly easy to say and to write correctly after having heard it.
I'm sure almost everyone who only hears it would write down "Kaden live".
The real problem is that product naming is really hard given that you don't want your product to be buried under millions of Google results for the same word in a different context, the namespace of easily-remembered names is limited and you ideally want a name that describes your product, as well.
Absolutely. There's a reason there are marketing agencies specialized on just product names.
Open source developers have long just looked for unique names that describe the program and are comfortable to type in a shell. Which is perfectly fine if you don't intend on competing with commercial software as it sidesteps a lot of issues you don't need to optimize for. Once you do compete on the market, however, you should consider a rebranding.
Exactly what I keep saying in this thread: Make up your mind. If you write stuff for yourself and only publish it because others may find it useful, by all means use whatever name makes you feel good about it.
If you write software for the mainstream because you want to immanentize the year of the Linux desktop, you have to do what the mainstream requires, and a good name is just one of those things.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Not a surprise, if that's the approach they're taking. Usability needs to be designed in from the start, it's not some kind of paint you apply as the last stage.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Prior to the iMac, the prefix identified the operating system. With the iMac, the "i" meant internet.
What the fuck? What is "NLV" editing? I've got years of broadcast and editing work under my belt and I've never once heard that term. Maybe it should be "NLE"? or just "video editing"?
FC Closer
If you think this is bad, you obviously haven't tried Awesome WM, with libraries like "Wicked". You try googling for "Awesome Wicked clock widget"...
for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
I know I'll get modded down, but I feel like I'm the only person who's actually used this software extensively. I have no idea how anyone could claim that KdenLive's interface is difficult to use. It is as simple or even easier to use than a lot of commercial NLE's out there. I was able to figure it out within minutes without looking at a single tutorial.
1:add a clip
2:add another clip
3:drag and drop them onto the editor portion as needed.
4:right click on the clip in the editor to add or subtract or modify effects
You can get to the cut/move all/select from the menu, from the icons to the lower right, or through hot keys. Everything is right in plain sight. If you have an effect selected then the left panel shows the options for that effect. If you are used to using in and out's for you clip cuts you can do that in the viewer before adding it to the editor (or after for that matter).
KdenLive is by far one of the easiest editors I've ever used. It's not as powerful as some but very easy to use.
once more into the breach
You cannot be serious about this application competing against Avid, Apple, Adobe and others, right? Final Cut X is the one to beat.
if you really dont like the name of the program, just call it the GNU Image Manipulator
Well most of us just consume gay donkey porn, not produce it.
When I say "of us" I really mean "people". It was, ummm, a typo. No, a palindrome. A pun, that's it.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Sorry, but there are no Linux video editing suites that don't suck compared to Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro. The ones that have the most features - and most don't even have enough for real consumer home video editing, let alone professional video editing - are ridiculously unstable - even compared to Adobe products which are notorious crap.
There is only ONE former commercial product which has been recently open sourced which seems adequate - LightWorks:
http://www.lightworksbeta.com/
Check out these features:
Editing
Resolution, format and codec independent timeline
Edit at 23.976, true 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 50, or 60 fps
Advanced Multicam editing with unlimited sources
Source/Record three-point editing
Insert and Overwrite editing
Replace, t to ll, backfill
Drag-and-drop replace editing
Extend and Split edits
A/V Sync indicators on timeline
Single-click re-sync of whole timeline
Multi-colored markers for edits and clips
Matchframe for clips and subclips
Trimming
Ripple
Roll
Slip and Slide
Remove and Delete
Asymmetric, multitrack trimming
Dynamic trimming during playback
JKL trimming
Trim window
Timeline trimming
Keyboard and numeric moving and trimming
Close Gap
Effects
Third Party Plugin Support
Alpha Channel Matte Transitions
Global Transitions adds effects between In and Out points
Real-time effects in SD, HD and 2K
Speed Tool for varispeed changes
Keyframe graphs
Transitions, effects, and filters included
Unlimited effects user templates
Copy and paste effect attributes to multiple clips
Effects layers with node-based compositing tool
Bezier curves with movable motion paths
Numeric control and keyframe capabilities
Tools
Real-time, hardware accurate video vectorscopes and waveform monitors
Multitrack Audio Mixer with full bus routing and multiple mixes
Keyboard and user interface customization tool with templates for Avid and FCP keyboard mappings
On-screen console controls
Voice Over tool for adding narration directly to timeline
Multi-split screen Viewer for original shot comparison
Shot Sync - sync two sources for playback comparison
Customisable BITC timecode and film footage overlays in Viewer
Colour Correction
Real time Primary color correctors
Real time Secondary color correctors
Image control filters
Audio
Subframe audio keyframing
Real-time audio adjustments during playback
OMF audio export with pan and volume levels
Real
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
And by all reviews I've ever seen, massively unstable - even compared to Adobe crap. And still doesn't support anywhere near the features of Adobe Premiere or Final Cut Pro.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
On the one side there's the evangelists "Linux is so ready for the desktop, almost any hardware is supported, it has replacements for all your software, it's so easy your grandma could do it, there's lot of people in the forums that'll help you." Then it turns out reality isn't so great, a lot of the things you expect on the desktop is broken or missing. And when you ask for help, and it's all "fix it yourself", "its free, you got what you paid for" and "go back to windows if you're so unhappy".
It's like if at the front door there's welcome signs and people welcoming you in for coffee and cookies and inside there's this grumpy old man who'll serve you cold coffee, hard biscuits and if you don't like it sod off. It's no wonder people go like "So why the hell did you invite me in then, when I'm clearly not welcome???" I stuck with it for about three and a half years (late 2007 to early 2011) before I finally said fuck it, I'm tired of being abused, ridiculed and spoken down to and switched to Windows 7.
There's some very nice open source software I still use, but I don't think I'll ever go back to a Linux distro. They've drunk waaaaaay too much of the koolaid. It's like coming to the Amish, they have everything they want for their society but people from the outside like me want more and other things. It's like "This is enough for us, then it should be enough for you. If you're so unhappy with it and want fancy things like electricity, go back to the big city." Funny that, most choose to not live the Amish way...
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
If it's good software and you call it Eye Dee Ten Tee, people will still use it & like it. I think you were trying to make a point. Oh, yes, that you remember names that you like.
-- $G
And if you give it for free to the world, they can adapt to your style or die for all you care, because in the end you're writing the thing for your own need.
I could be a dick and not share at all.
What too few people have realized is that Free Software (or open source, whatever term works for you) is a horrible development model for software you write exclusively for other people.
That's why no one uses MySQL, Apache, Joomla, WordPress, Thunderbird, Firefox, any browser with Webkit (Safari, Android, Chrome) in it (which is a fork of the browser component from Konqueror), or OpenOffice, right? Please. People use Open Source stuff all the time. It's not different than commercial software, some of it sucks, and some of it is amazing.
Look around yourself and you'll notice how most Free Software is seriously lacking in UI design.
If you want to fix user interfaces, then go help a project fix their craptacular GUI. Seriously. People actually would appreciate your contribution.
-- $G
The reality is that there's no single app that will propel Linux into the mainstream magically,
On the contrary, the only thing that will propel Linux into the mainstream is are unique apps that are not available elsewhere. Otherwise users will just run those apps natively and continue to ignore Linux.
Yes, this is directly opposite the F/OSS ideal of software that is free for everyone. But it is reality.
The largest number of Linux converts I've ever been party to was directly the result of Compiz. Years of running Install-fests, going to various LUGs and discussing those pesky things that make a computer run were nothing. I did a 5 minute demo to a friend in public on my laptop of my flashy, sexy cube desktop and a real workflow that used it. The first words out of everybody's mouth was 'how to I get that?'
Apple has the 'iLife' experience (and BSD inside.)
Microsoft has Office, Video Games and Microsoft's Deal-making Marketing Machine.
What is Linux's killer app?
"You cannot have a General Will unless you have shared experiences. You cannot be fair to people you don't know."
Woah, easy there.
I'm as much an advocate of F/OSS as anybody else. I'm constantly posting links to RMS's Right to Read. I use Ubuntu as my (only) desktops.
But Linux won't be improved by sweeping away the problems. Partly it's due to hardware manufacturers, but we have to deal with it anyway.
Just the other week, I finally found out how to suspend without being permanently stuck suspended. It has to do with /etc/modprobe.conf.local, and, yes, kernel modules. $lsmod |grep agp confirms whether the module has been unloaded.
http://old-en.opensuse.org/NVidia_Suspend_HOWTO
And the way I suspend is:
$sudo s2ram -f --vbe_save
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
While I agree with you on having good names for FOSS software (sic), I think kdenlive is actually one of the better ones. I think it could use a capitalization fix, though:
kdEnlive (maybe with the kd in small caps).
Enlive is a very good name for a movie editor. The meaning should be pretty easy to grasp, if somewhat under the surface: You're taking some footage and enlivening it.
As good as Maya, which is named after the Sanskrit word for illusion.
In front of that you have a letter or two which is supposed to stand for something or another, but doesn't really matter.
KDE Enlive => kdEnlive
Internet Movie => iMovie
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
You can safely disregard anybody who disses Ubuntu because they've taken just a bit of extra time to make sure various components work together. And I don't think most Gentoo users care that someone's using Ubuntu as a gentle introduction.
The complaints about Unity and Gnome3 were that they would actually make things harder for most newbs.
Since most people already know how to use Windows unless they're the Unabomber, why go out of your way to make things gratuitously different? And losing discoverability (a key point for noobs), along the way?
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
rdf, bro
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
>In 2001 apple begins selling the iPod building on the success of the "i" prefix trademark.
Wait, Apple has a trademark on the letter i? When did that happen? And why did Apple have to give consideration in order to get the iPhone mark from Cisco if it already owned the letter I?
I have to say it was quite generous of Apple to let us non black turtleneck wearers have the other 25 letters of the alphabet so we can still talk about e-mail, e-commerce, m-commerce, a-bombs, h-bombs, and so on.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Woe that I commented in this thread!
Somebody mod this funny.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
"k-den-live"
Really?
I'd say "Kay Dee Enlive", which, imho, also gets across the point of it having to do with art/multimedia.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Follow-up: Enlive is in the dictionary:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enlive
n*live"\, v. t. [Pref. en- + live, a.] To enliven
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Alright, I guess that makes sense. So why not just call it Enliven? why the Kd thing? (yes its part of the K scheme, but that's my point)
And for the record, I am not a troll. I was honestly trying to start a conversation about how open source programs shoot themselves in the foot marketing wise. I should tone down my snarkiness next time, so that the real issue can be debated.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
It's unfortunate your original post was marked troll.
Hopefully you can open up a bug on the kdenlive.org website to put a bigger focus on the "enlive" part of the name. And I'll second it.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
No OS is perfect, and no OS is for everybody, and I do have technical trouble with Linux from time to time. But the "you have to use a command prompt" is just stupidly incorrect. Only someone who hasn't tried Linux in over 10 years, or a troll, would make that statement.
Free Martian Whores!
Excellent troll, son. Again, "Yes maam, just load that kernel module dynamically using the following easy command, making sure you have root on your box...." is total bullshit and you know it if you've run any modern distro in the last ten years. Yes, there are technical problems with Linux but your post was so over the top that it was nothing BUT a troll.
And unintuitive? You press the "start" button to shut down is intuitive? That's Windows. Linux is IMO more intuitive (for most tasks) than Windows. When I had an Acer Aspire One it took me three weeks to figure out how to turn off the stupid "tap to click" mouseboard feature in Windows, and that was after asking slashdotters for help with it. It was about twenty mouse clicks five menus deep. It took me less than five minutes in kubuntu.
My issues with the wireless card are after install, when it's sitting at the desktop having *not installed my wireless drivers correctly during the smooth install process* that were working *perfectly* from the Live CD, and my subsequent attempts to reinstall and tweak them.
I had the same problem with Windows when I installed XP ten years ago. The first Windows update replaced my perfectly good network driver with one that was completely nonfunctional. It took a lot of tech support from both my ISP and Mocrosoft, and it all was in vain. I discovered the solution to the problem by accident; I was all set to buy a new network card.
As to getting help, I never had any trouble when asking for help, but I suspect it's the old "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar". If you get on a message board and talk about how useless and shitty Linux is because your wifi driver doesn't work, you're going to catch hell for it.
As to Apple, IMO it's superior to both Windows and Linux. Its only drawback is its cost.
Free Martian Whores!
You clearly missed the "exaggeration for comic effect" with that comment, but the point still stands - there is a lot of messing with the command line for some estoteric tasks (like, fixing the wireless).
You also suspect wrong, re more flies with honey than vinegar - I am unfailingly polite when asking for help. What, you think I'm a total idiot? It doesn't have much effect on the way I'm treated in return though.
avidemux is another popular linear editor.
it is very close to what VirtualDub is on windows.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I might not have chosen that pronounciation because I was unaware that "enlive" is a word. I know "enliven" but I wouldn't immediately think of that given "kdenlive".
Of course "enlive" could be the name of a different product but in that case I would really shy away from that name. Putting a competitor's name into your product name is a fairly risky move.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Well, the only product Google seems to show for "enlive" is nutritional supplements, I think we should be good, since it's in a different industry category:
http://abbottnutrition.com/Products/Enlive
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Here's a little sales lesson for you: Giving people something that they like, want and need is the dream. It's what we all want to do in an ideal world that we don't live in. Reality is you go to market with the products you have, warts and all. We have a name for people who take their products and present them as they are perfect, without fault and capable of solving all problems: snake oil salesmen.
Regardless, I'm glad you have an opinion and are willing to share it. Your delivery is amateurish, and discounts your opinion.
-- $G