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RIM Announces BlackBerry 7 OS

Posted by Soulskill on from the damage-control dept.

adeelarshad82 writes "RIM announced two new BlackBerry phones with high-res touchscreens, 1.2GHz processors and a new OS that offers better graphics than BlackBerries had before. The new BlackBerry 7 OS brings the 'liquid graphics' ability and offers '60 frames per second performance with instant UI action/response.' What's unfortunate about the new OS is that rather than being entirely new, BlackBerry 7 is just an upgrade to the existing BlackBerry 6 OS."

129 comments

  1. Stock shows no change by captaindomon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Investors obviously aren't impressed. After the huge crash last week in RIMM, with this announcement you would expect some recovery, but there just isn't anything there.

    --
    Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
    1. Re:Stock shows no change by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      There isn't anything there alright, it's a polished version of their old OS, which is years behind iOS and Android.

      Bottom line is that Blackberry used to have good penetration into the consumer market, and now the only reason they have any revenue at all is the business space.

    2. Re:Stock shows no change by grub · · Score: 2


      it's a polished version of their old OS, which is years behind iOS and Android.

      It's easier to polish a turd when it's old and dried up.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    3. Re:Stock shows no change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Minor devil's advocate here:

      RIM has one thing that is top notch -- security. Android still isn't there when it comes to keeping data confidential. There are third party apps which *support* encryption, but only do so if the Exchange server mandates it.

      If BlackberryOS can do this, I wish Google can do the same with Android. It would be as simple as having a key which is stored in some NVRAM that isn't part of the filesystem which is XOR-ed with the user's PIN. Then the internal filesystem for the user data is LUKS protected. Too many wrong guesses on the PIN, the key is zapped and recreated and the phone reformats itself. For the SD card, it would be easy to do a system similar to Windows Mobile and sport EncFS, or encrypt the card wholesale with LUKS, with a keyfile that is stored on the device, and can be easily backed up. This way, a device can be remotely erased, but the SD card content can be recovered if need be.

    4. Re:Stock shows no change by pudding7 · · Score: 1

      Unless you're in a country where RIM let's the government read the emails.

    5. Re:Stock shows no change by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Insightful

      RIM *is* getting left behind, but let's be honest here. Countries where RIM lets the government read the emails are countries where everybody who provides email lets the government read the emails. RIM got headlines for being the last holdout.

    6. Re:Stock shows no change by wiedzmin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Lets be honest here, RIM lets all governments read user emails, it's just that in some countries it gets more publicity than in others. You can't seriously believe that privacy-neutral states like US or UK do not have a backdoor into RIM infrastructure.

      --
      Bow before me, for I am root.
    7. Re:Stock shows no change by ArhcAngel · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you are on a BES they still can't read your email. They can intercept a copy and try to decrypt it but with today's technology it would take them a few years to do so.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    8. Re:Stock shows no change by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1
      That would be every country in all likelihood, after following whatever due process is in place for any given country (or lack thereof). That's the same as any data provider in any country.

      What RIM cannot do is provide any government access to secured email that's attached to BES. And that's where governments like India keep repeatedly making threats -- but can't force RIM to do the impossible. (That is: obtain the private keys for each server running BES and use them to somehow provide email details to the government.) And that's a couple steps ahead of the competition.

    9. Re:Stock shows no change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are on a BES they still can't read your email. They can intercept a copy and try to decrypt it but with today's technology it would take them a few years to do so.

      Bets? We'll have that puppy broken open and served hot before first coffee break.

      Oh, by the way; nice collection of racy midget porn on your phone. Also, you've had the same password for over four months. It's time to change it.

      Not that that would help.

      Sincerely,

        The NSA

    10. Re:Stock shows no change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are there any employment opportunities there?

      I'm looking for a RIM job.

    11. Re:Stock shows no change by Ferzerp · · Score: 1

      RIM doesn't have the private keys to decrypt the data you send through their infrastructure. They could provide it encrypted and the encyption could be cracked given a long enough timeline, but the whole point is that it is end to end secure.

      This is like saying all your encrypted traffic going over ATT's backbone is arbitrarily viewable. Sure, the raw data could be, but the contents aren't.

      This isn't hotmail or google where your data is sitting on their servers. Not sure why you are modded up for an uninformed claim.

    12. Re:Stock shows no change by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Security at the expense of usability is not a feature I want.

    13. Re:Stock shows no change by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Investors obviously aren't impressed. After the huge crash last week in RIMM, with this announcement you would expect some recovery, but there just isn't anything there.

      The big problem is the PlayBook. First, it doesn't ship with any messaging/calendaring components - if you want those, you need to link it with a BlackBerry.

      The second problem is, Blackberry Link only works with OS6 devices. If you're stuck with an OS5/OS4 device with no OS upgrade options (not available/corporate won't do it), a Playbook is nothing more than a web browser that can do Flash, but is otherwise just a toy.

      And nevermind if you don't have a Blackberry to begin with - you'd be better served with a Xoom or an iPad if you wanted a tablet.

      That's why investors are spooked - the Playbook was hailed as having great hardware inside (1GHz dual core! 1GB RAM!) but then contemporary platforms start coming out with similar specs (Xoom has similar specs, iPad has half the RAM).

      I'm sure a number of people have been pressing for OS6 upgrades just so they could make the Playbook useful.

      (My dad really wants one so he doesn't have to look at the tiny screen. Alas, his BB only runs OS4.2, and his IT department has informed him new BBs will also run 4.2. He's got a better chance with an iPad and webmail (or ActiveSync) than a Playbook.)

    14. Re:Stock shows no change by mr1911 · · Score: 2

      You can't seriously believe that privacy-neutral states like US or UK do not have a backdoor into RIM infrastructure.

      Yes, I seriously believe that the US government does not have a back door into RIM's infrastructure. They do not need a back door. With a simple "national security" letter, US government agents waltz right through the front door, take what they want, and prevent anyone from saying anything about it.

      Reality is so much more boring than a good conspiracy theory.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    15. Re:Stock shows no change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easiest when it's become fossilized.

    16. Re:Stock shows no change by narcc · · Score: 1

      Only BIS users -- RIM can't hand the keys over for BES users because they don't have the keys.

      Still, RIM only made the news because foreign governments could ALREADY read everyone else's emails, just not BB users.

      HA they got all the bad press because they were TOO secure.

      --
      Required reading for internet skeptics
    17. Re:Stock shows no change by narcc · · Score: 1

      Security at the expense of usability is not a feature I want.

      You're in luck! You can get best-in-class security *and* best-in-class messaging (read: great usability) by switching to BlackBerry.

      --
      Required reading for internet skeptics
    18. Re:Stock shows no change by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Unless you're in a country where RIM let's the government read the emails.

      But they don't do that at all, don't spread FUD, do some research before you make rubbish posts like that. The emails are encrypted using the company's BES encryption key, which RIM doesn't have, however they can identify the source and destination of emails and this is the information they give to the government who can then subpoena the company for the unencrypted information.

    19. Re:Stock shows no change by grantpalin · · Score: 1

      Actually, Bridge is supposed to work with OS5 devices as well. My BB Tour has OS5 on it, Bridge installed, and was able to connect to a PlayBook without issue.

    20. Re:Stock shows no change by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      There isn't anything there alright, it's a polished version of their old OS, which is years behind iOS and Android.

      Bottom line is that Blackberry used to have good penetration into the consumer market, and now the only reason they have any revenue at all is the business space.

      Blackberry phones sell very well in the UK to teenagers and others who do a lot of texting, as they have a proper keyboard.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    21. Re:Stock shows no change by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Lets be honest here, RIM lets all governments read user emails, it's just that in some countries it gets more publicity than in others. You can't seriously believe that privacy-neutral states like US or UK do not have a backdoor into RIM infrastructure.

      And why precisely shouldn't the government read user emails if necessary?
      Your right to privacy is over-ridden by questions of national security every time.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    22. Re:Stock shows no change by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      a Playbook is nothing more than a web browser that can do Flash, but is otherwise just a toy.

      My Android tablet is basically just used as a web browser that can do Flash, why does that make it a toy? Word processing, programming, spreadsheets, graphics editing or whatever, I do on a real computer anyway.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    23. Re:Stock shows no change by therealkevinkretz · · Score: 1

      The question isn't "why shouldn't the government read user e-mails if necessary".

      The question is "why is there such a presupposition of necessity that a 'national security letter' forbidding the service provider from even acknowledging its use can be so easily (ab)used to access the private communications of citizens"?

      The Fourth Amendment describes the right of The People to be "secure ... in their papers and effects" and requires not only a warrant supported by probable cause, but also specificity of what'ts to be searched.

  2. Why did they buy QNX? by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

    They bought a good OS and now they are sticking with the old garbage. Sounds like internal politics is killing RIMs only way forward.

    1. Re:Why did they buy QNX? by Kenja · · Score: 0

      They put QNX on their tablet that no one cares about.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    2. Re:Why did they buy QNX? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've said they're going that route. I can imagine the hold-up is just making the switch. It's not like they're going to just stop releasing new products until they finish their development.

      I like the look of their new bold. My first-generation bold was by far the best phone I've ever had.

    3. Re:Why did they buy QNX? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Informative

      They used it for Playbook. Considering how incomplete most reviewers regarded the PlayBook, if RIM has plans to replace their smartphone OS with it, it will take a few years.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    4. Re:Why did they buy QNX? by GreyLurk · · Score: 1

      To be fair (ish) QNX on the Playbook isn't really ready for prime time yet. It's better to wait until they've got those bugs ironed out before they risk their phone platform on it.

      Now, why QNX on the Playbook is so bad, that's another question altogether. Maybe RIM thinks Apple has a patent on well designed UIs and APIs, and aren't risking a patent battle.

    5. Re:Why did they buy QNX? by Stratoukos · · Score: 2

      Now you are just being unfair. They are also going to put it on smartphones that no one will care about.

      --
      It may be 7 digits, but at least it's a semiprime
    6. Re:Why did they buy QNX? by tibit · · Score: 1

      What a waste of QNX :( It is an otherwise very good and lean hard-realtime OS.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    7. Re:Why did they buy QNX? by RDW · · Score: 2

      Older readers may remember the excellent QNX Demo Disk, an OS on a bootable floppy complete with windowing system, file browser, editor, and a proper web browser:

      http://toastytech.com/guis/qnxdemo.html
      http://qnx.projektas.lt/qnxdemo/qnx_demo_disk.htm

      Who needs live CDs?

    8. Re:Why did they buy QNX? by ekgringo · · Score: 2

      Our COO (who happens to be Canadian) bought a PlayBook. It's a really nice and solid piece of hardware, but the software on the device has serious issues including a GUI that doesn't recognize touches half the time you try to click a button. The BlackBery Desktop Manager, which is supposed to be used to sync data, doesn't work properly (works fine with the BlackBerry phones). It was quite an effort to get it to see the PlayBook and then it wouldn't allow him to add media once it finally did recognize it. He took it home to try on his home PC, which is a Mac, only to discover that the current Desktop Manager software for Mac doesn't support the PlayBook yet and will not be ready until sometime in the summer. Then there's the BlackBerry App Store, which is full of hundreds of $0.99 unit conversion utilities but almost nothing else. Looks like they released it too early trying to steal some of the iPad 2's thunder.

    9. Re:Why did they buy QNX? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, all the good stuff won't be ready until August.

      Sort of like how all the stuff on Enterprise B was going to be ready on Tuesday.

    10. Re:Why did they buy QNX? by williamyf · · Score: 1

      Porting all from BlackBerry OS 6/7 to QNX will not happen overnight, so it will take time to go from BBOS 5/6/7 in the phones, and QNX in the playbook to a unified stack in phones and tablets...

      Let's just hope that RIM does not go bankrupt before they finish the port.

      --
      *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
    11. Re:Why did they buy QNX? by Octorian · · Score: 1

      The core of the PlayBook's OS isn't bad at all. It actually works really well and feels quite solid. The problem is that the software stack layered on top of it is mostly incomplete at this stage. That stuff all takes time to build from scratch, and they didn't take the approach of throwing a boatload of money to a team hiding behind locked doors for a few years to do it.

  3. SOP by cpu6502 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >>>BlackBerry 7 is just an upgrade to the existing BlackBerry 6 OS

    [Windows] 7 is just an upgrade to the existing [Windows] 6/vista OS
    [Mac 10.]7 is just an upgrade to the existing [Mac 10.]6 OS
    Reviewers should no longer be shocked. It's standard operating procedure.

    --
    My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    1. Re:SOP by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is when the company just bought a new OS.

      RIM bought QNX, everyone expected them to move their platform to that. BlackBerry OS is terrible, loads all apps at boot, etc.

    2. Re:SOP by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 0

      More like "free" is better than having to pay $200 to get windows.

      Who actually pays $200 for Windows? Most people get it bundled with an OEM computer where the OEM is probably paying 20-30 bucks because of a volume license.

      Some linuxes, like puppy, run in only 0.06 gig of RAM so no need to waste money upgrading perfectly-good hardware.

      Sure as long as you have almost no applications installed and are doing next to nothing with your computer. Seriously, you can dumpster-dive core2duo systems with multiple gigs of RAM so trying to dust off some crappy 15 year old computer to run puppy linux on it is a waste of time.

    3. Re:SOP by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      That's been at the bottom of the pages for about a week now. I'm getting a little annoyed by it. Combined with the new format, the excessive Apple articles, and a few other ongoing annoyances, I'm getting close to looking for a new discussion/news site.

    4. Re:SOP by strick1226 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The notable difference here is that, unlike the personal computers running ever-changing versions of OS X and Windows, the BlackBerry hardware platform has changed very little over the years. Thanks to a combination of weak, battery-sipping CPU's and a bloated java-based OS It's long been a clunky, rather unresponsive UI if you pressed the devices to do much of anything beyond the basic calendar and messaging apps.

      I'd like to think RIM have a chance now that they're finally making some noteworthy changes to the hardware, but it's also entirely possible they're simply too late to the latest-generation smartphone party. If they managed to switch to the QNX platform on their phone devices I bet the investors would be much happier.

      I really wonder, though, if they won't just cease making phones and tablets altogether and roll full Android support into BES for corporate environments. Better do it before Google makes a corporate management platform, though! :)

    5. Re:SOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who actually pays $200 for Windows? Most people get it bundled with an OEM computer where the OEM is probably paying 20-30 bucks because of a volume license.

      Interestingly enough, between paying 20-30 bucks for Windows and paying 200 bucks for Linux, I'd choose Linux. For me, it's a much better value for the money. I don't play games and for professional work, I code Android apps. Just pissing around, Chromium fits the bill nicely. Of course, Windows can do all of that two. It's the niceties in between that do it for me, though. Bash, apt-get, compiz, ssh, etc.

      Sure as long as you have almost no applications installed and are doing next to nothing with your computer.

      You can do a lot in 60 MB as long as you don't fire up a web browser.

      Seriously, you can dumpster-dive core2duo systems with multiple gigs of RAM

      Really? Where? Let's go! Oh, you were just talking out of your ass.

    6. Re:SOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A P3? "Perfectly good?" Not for years, bub. A chisel and stone tablet is fine if you only want to send a message, but most of us want to do a lot more than that.

    7. Re:SOP by vlm · · Score: 1

      Some linuxes, like puppy, run in only 0.06 gig of RAM so no need to waste money upgrading perfectly-good hardware.

      Sure as long as you have almost no applications installed and are doing next to nothing with your computer.

      I can install a zillion LXC virtualized containers on my $100 desktop from surpluscomputers. Well, I've never tried more than 10 or so Debian clients so I don't know. If each virtualized linux costs me a couple dozen megs I'm all good. If each virtualized Win7 costs me a gig and $200 then I'm not all good.

      Having a dozen or so virtualized hosts in a box is as much fun as a barrel of monkeys.

      You put your quagga on each virtual host, link the virtual hosts using weird arrays of virtual bridges, and go BGP insane. Or OSPF insane. Or any ole routing protocol insane. Also a good time can be had with setting up a compute cluster, you get some pretty interesting experience with the software tools.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    8. Re:SOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some linuxes, like puppy, run in only 0.06 gig of RAM so no need to waste money upgrading perfectly-good hardware.

      Sure as long as you have almost no applications installed and are doing next to nothing with your computer. Seriously, you can dumpster-dive core2duo systems with multiple gigs of RAM so trying to dust off some crappy 15 year old computer to run puppy linux on it is a waste of time.

      I thought this is exactly what you freetards do with your free time. Hmm.. Color me stupid.

    9. Re:SOP by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > Who actually pays $200 for Windows?

      Well, anyone who wants to upgrade from Home Starvation edition, or wants to (or is forced to) upgrade to the next major release.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    10. Re:SOP by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      It is when the company just bought a new OS.

      RIM bought QNX, everyone expected them to move their platform to that. BlackBerry OS is terrible, loads all apps at boot, etc.

      Actually it verifies the signatures of all apps at boot. The only ones loaded at boot are the ones developed to have boot-time load components...

      Having used the PlayBook, I do hope to see that OS on their phones in the very near future though, and will likely be sitting out the OS7 upgrades until that's available.

    11. Re:SOP by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      I have to say.
      I used to have till recently a Blackberry 8330 on the Sprint network.
      About 6 month ago I moved to a Sprint Evo phone.
      I have 4G at home and at work so it seemed like a good move.
      Overall I am happy and love all the geeky shit I can do on my Evo.
      I do sometimes still miss the 8330 though.
      The charge lasted forever.
      I dropped on concrete hard enough that the battery came out at least 50 times.
      I dropped on concrete hard enough that the battery and the SD card came out over 10 times.
      It always worked. A truly rock solid phone that did the things I needed it to do very well and without fail.

      I am not going back. If I had to go back to a Blackberry I would.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    12. Re:SOP by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>>>Some linuxes, like puppy, run in only 0.06 gig of RAM
      >>
      >>Sure as long as you have almost no applications installed and are doing next to nothing with your computer.

      Clearly you've never tried Puppy Linux.
      It runs inside RAM (no hard drive thrashing)
      and so too do the programs.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    13. Re:SOP by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      I dropped on concrete hard enough that the battery came out at least 50 times.
      I dropped on concrete hard enough that the battery and the SD card came out over 10 times.

      You're the reason we can't have nice things. Please start taking care of your stuff.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    14. Re:SOP by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      The /. MOTD seems to be stuck at that one.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    15. Re:SOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Already announced cross-platform support for Android and iOS devices on BES today. Although, I have to say, RIMs demise has been really exaggerated. Their sales increase every year, they're very profitable, and have a lot of capital. The problem the analysts have with RIM is that the rate of increase of the their smartphone devices doesn't match the rate of increase of the smartphone market, meaning they're losing market share as a percentage. Still, if the phones being released this year sell well, which would give them time to move their smartphone platform to QNX next year they're going to prove a lot of people wrong.

    16. Re:SOP by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Was BB OS 6 a huge, completely new codebase from OS 5? Because OS 5 was warmed over OS4, which looked outdated when it was released in 2007(?). That's at minimum, 4 years of crufty code. IIRC, OS4 is just warmed over OS3. The huge problem with Blackberry devices is that they're running on the mobile phone equivalent of Windows ME. People, companies and everything in between have moved on. It sucks that you probably have a sizable investment in RIM stock, but this day was long coming. You should have sold all your stock along with everyone else when the Bold was released two years ago, a warmed over version of the curve.
       
      I had a curve for two years, and while reliable, it is definitely not a modern mobile computing platform. Unless OS 8 is some sort of blackberry branded version of Android, they're done.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    17. Re:SOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>>BlackBerry 7 is just an upgrade to the existing BlackBerry 6 OS

      [Windows] 7 is just an upgrade to the existing [Windows] 6/vista OS
      [Mac 10.]7 is just an upgrade to the existing [Mac 10.]6 OS
      Reviewers should no longer be shocked. It's standard operating procedure.

      Was there something wrong with BB OS 6 that should necessitate a complete re-write for OS 7? (Serious question, I own a BB but it's still on OS 5.) I am constantly hearing people complaining about how Vista was so different from XP and Office 2007 from 2003, etc., that I figured people liked upgrades rather than completely new things?

      Maybe he is a Mac user and going by experience as when the totally unsuitable for modern times 9 was replaced by OS X.

    18. Re:SOP by Romario77 · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about - it doesn't load all apps at boot. It loads the apps when you launch them. You can then end the app. And it was multythreaded by default since the beginning. I don't see it much different from Android or iOS.

  4. In related news... by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


    In related ancient technology news:

    Gak the Caveman has updated his stone axe. The bindings are now made from hemp rather than mammoth tendon.

    Grogg from the Urrg tribe has discovered a new method of tanning hides. This will help in those dark, dank caves!

    Bleaaaa, leader of the Mmagb community, has found a method of creating fire by rubbing two stick together.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:In related news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HUMOR FAIL

    2. Re:In related news... by _0xd0ad · · Score: 1

      Gak the Caveman has updated his stone axe. The bindings are now made from hemp rather than mammoth tendon.

      What a stupid idea - no doubt the tendon would be tougher and wear better. Not to mention the hemp could be put to ... better ... use. I'd ask what they were smoking when they came up with it, but it's pretty obvious what they weren't smoking in any case...

    3. Re:In related news... by _0xd0ad · · Score: 1

      Probably because the Mmagb community filed a patent on that process of creating fire.

    4. Re:In related news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an idiot.

    5. Re:In related news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bleaaaa, leader of the Mmagb community, has found a method of creating fire by rubbing two stick together.

      Yeah, and it`s just five years away from being a viable replacement to the current technology?

    6. Re:In related news... by southlander · · Score: 1

      Yeah. After all, RIM's phone's are based on Java, use ARM processors, run apps. Whole world of difference there vs. the other guys. Night and day really.

    7. Re:In related news... by Altus · · Score: 1

      Just think of the aftermarket opportunities for replacement bindings!

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    8. Re:In related news... by intheshelter · · Score: 1

      COMMENT FAIL

  5. Why must it be new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Was Linux 2.6 a complete rewrite? It's not like it was originally written for mainframe cell phones and has billions of wasted code paths. Incremental progress is still progress.

  6. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice-- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not going to buy another Blackberry.

    Ever. I've never hated a cellphone the way I hated my blackberry.

  7. Come on Apple!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just buy RIM already.....
    I am running low on RIM/Jobs jokes!

    1. Re:Come on Apple!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interestingly, Apple will probably make enough free cash ($24B) in 2011 to buy RIM ($25B) outright, and not affect their bottom line at all.

  8. Circling the drain by cpuh0g · · Score: 1

    Seriously, when was the last time you talked to anyone who excited to go get a new blackberry? iOS and Android have rendered RIMM products utterly irrelevant. Well, that plus their own inability to adapt to the latest trends and provide a product that is interesting.

    1. Re:Circling the drain by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 2

      are android and ios Office and Outlook integration implementations tight enough to render BB's edge in those fields irrelevant? I know I can view docx, xlsx, and a few other formats on my iOS devices, but I imagined BB would have some sort of edge there. I also thought that BES would have an edge over vanilla Exchange connections over SSL. Huh.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    2. Re:Circling the drain by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Sheesh when was the last time you did some word editing on a phone... the office integration is moot, good file viewers with some editing capabilities are available for all platforms, as for outlook not even windows phone 7 has outlook integration anymore if you need it there are sync programs for every platform. The only thing where blackberry really still has an edge to some degree is the exchange connectivity and that keeps them afloat businesswise.

    3. Re:Circling the drain by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      are android and ios Office and Outlook integration implementations tight enough to render BB's edge in those fields irrelevant?

      In my opinion, BB's got no edge in those fields.

      BB requires a BES if you want to sync your calendar wirelessly. Yes, BES Express is now free. You still need a box to install it on, and it's still another piece of software to maintain.

      Droid will do a wireless calendar sync right out of the box. No extra hardware or software.

      I don't have an iOS device, but I'm told that they sync up just as easily as the Droid does.

      And as far as Office support goes... It works. I've opened plenty of Office 2007 and 2010 documents on my Droid with no trouble at all.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    4. Re:Circling the drain by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Do enough people outside of the Enterprise world care?

    5. Re:Circling the drain by Sunshinerat · · Score: 1

      It is not a new idea, but I think RIM needs to get over the handheld manufacturing business and build a solid mail client app (iOS and Android) for their BES server.
      They will make money on the app without any doubt, however, retaining the revenue on BES clients will be priceless.
      More and more corporate users are leaving their BlackBerry devices at home because their personal phones are more sexy even though their company pays their BES licences. One day these corporate clients decide the stop paying for BES licenses and go with a simpler mail protocol. This will be the revenue that will never come back to RIM.

      --
      Load New Commander (Y/N)?
    6. Re:Circling the drain by Sunshinerat · · Score: 1

      Casual users do not care about BES servers, Office file viewers, security and remote wipes.
      They want Angry Birds.

      --
      Load New Commander (Y/N)?
    7. Re:Circling the drain by MonsterTrimble · · Score: 1

      Seriously, when was the last time you talked to anyone who excited to go get a new blackberry?

      My wife. She's had it for 3 years next month and it's been very dependable. I would prefer her jump to a 'droid, but all her friends have Blackberries and it's the BBM she loves.

      --
      I call it 'The Aristocrats'
    8. Re:Circling the drain by lennier · · Score: 1

      Casual users do not care about BES servers, Office file viewers, security and remote wipes.
      They want Angry Birds.

      Conversely, enterprise users don't care about Angry Birds.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    9. Re:Circling the drain by Shin-LaC · · Score: 2

      And that's where you're wrong.

    10. Re:Circling the drain by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      my old job subsidized my private phone with a healthy discount from AT&T as part of our perks.

      I got Angry Birds and Enterprise support from Apple. I just wanted to know if RIM's got any legs to stand on anymore.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    11. Re:Circling the drain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Droid will lose its sync if the server cert expires, or is self signed, or the password changes, or you switch mailboxes to a new server, or it just decides to be depressed one day. Also, good luck instructing Joe accountant on how to set up ActiveSync (info needed-- password, email address, mailbox name (NOT the same as username always!), server address, http/https, OWA virtual directory....).

      BES, sync never stops working so long as the server is configured correctly, and setting up a new user is as simple as giving them an activation password and guiding them through about 3 clicks. Information needed? Email address and activate password.

      Also, the sync on a BES is much more thorough than ActiveSync. Im pretty sure every database that comes with the phone (be it phone logs, email, contacts, or passwords) are synced with the server; ActiveSync just covers traditional Exchange roles. Its very handy when you can wipe a BlackBerry with no compunctions because the data was never in just one place.

    12. Re:Circling the drain by intheshelter · · Score: 1

      I hate them but I will grant they are dependable. Worthless pieces of shit for getting anything done at work, but no matter how many times I drop mine on the pavement, hoping it will quit so I can try and get something else, it keeps working. Kind of like that old ugly car. You hate it and want to get something better when it finally dies, but it unfortunately keeps on running. If that is all they have to recommend them then their business will eventually die.

    13. Re:Circling the drain by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      A colleague of mine had an iPhone but as she's one of the clumsiest people on earth the flimsy poser toy couldn't keep up with her. The Blackberry she has now seems to be pretty much bulletproof. I don't get this "RIM are dead". I see more people with Blackberries here in the UK than with iPhones. Or is this just another 'they're not doing well in the US so they're dead' a la Nokia.

  9. "Just an upgrade" by wall0645 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Was there something wrong with BB OS 6 that should necessitate a complete re-write for OS 7? (Serious question, I own a BB but it's still on OS 5.) I am constantly hearing people complaining about how Vista was so different from XP and Office 2007 from 2003, etc., that I figured people liked upgrades rather than completely new things?

    1. Re:"Just an upgrade" by ekgringo · · Score: 1

      Yes. The god-forsaken side-scroll trays that my phone keeps accidentally sliding into when I meant to go to the Mail icon. I never use "Favorites", "Media", "Downloads", "Frequent" trays ever. I was waiting for 6.1 to come out because it was rumored to let you lock onto a chosen tray, but if I have to buy a new phone to get rid of this useless "feature", I think I'll pass on all future BlackBerries. Even when work pays for them, it's not worth the frustration. And do I have to mention how badly the new style keyboards suck? The keyboard used to be their only remaining redeeming feature but no more.

    2. Re:"Just an upgrade" by narcc · · Score: 1

      I never use "Favorites", "Media", "Downloads", "Frequent" trays ever.

      I don't use downloads, but I find the other trays very convenient. I agree that it would be nice if you could configure them in the default theme.

      That said, if you really hate the trays, just install a theme that doesn't use them. There are plenty to choose from.

      --
      Required reading for internet skeptics
  10. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the biggest thing about BBOS 7 is it can refresh the UI at 60hz?!!? RIM is in trouble.

  11. Unfortunate (?) by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's unfortunate about the new OS is that rather than being entirely new, BlackBerry 7 is just an upgrade to the existing BlackBerry 6 OS.

    Yeah, I was looking forward to replacing all my apps and app developers must have been really looking forward to supporting two different sets of APIs. Given the hate for "forward" Android fragmentation (i.e. apps that require Android >= X.Y) I can't imagine how much fury would befall RIM if they "backwards" fragmented by making an entirely-new OS.

    I'm not saying that total-rewrites are always wrong but they have to be damn well justified (WinMo6.5 comes to mind) because they incur a huge cost on both the rewriters and the entire ecosystem. Those asking for an 'entirely new' OS need to be careful what they wish for.

    1. Re:Unfortunate (?) by iONiUM · · Score: 1

      No offence, but do you even write for mobile devices?

      I write code for both Android and BBOS, and I have to say that supporting Android's "fragmentation" included 0 work from me.. I've tested it on about 10 devices (including the Xoom, oddly enough) and it worked correctly in all of them with no changes.

      I am also developing an app for BBOS4.6 (yes, an old version, to try and get some good exposure), and it does not work the same AT ALL in 4.7, 5.0 and 6.0. Each version has glitches, even different devices (i.e. 4.7.1 was only on one device) have issues (Torch). Talk about fragmentation, why does nobody mention the fact that BlackBerry is so much worse than Android for fragmentation with THEIR OWN devices? It's really awful.

    2. Re:Unfortunate (?) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I agree with all your points on the android dev, and think it's a bit off (though, in our company we've found difficulties in different android phones/versions/etc, but no worse by far than BB dev)

      Didn't you just pretty much validate everything the parent said in his post?

    3. Re:Unfortunate (?) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, if you can't be a man and say it.. I will: total-rewrites are always wrong.

    4. Re:Unfortunate (?) by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      Are there any worthwhile Blackberry apps that aren't just Java ones - and so would presumably run on any new OS as long as it has a J2ME implementation? Is anybody bothering to write native Blackberry OS applications?

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  12. take off your android/apple colored glasses by 1800maxim · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Plenty of people get excited about BlackBerries, many are in the business world, and many are in the consumer world.

    Neither iOS nor Android have rendered RIM product(s) irrelevant, and won't for a while. Stop spreading untruth.

    There's one area in which iOS/Android cannot even touch the BlackBerry - security.

    Of course, you know all that. And choose to ignore it and spread your FUD.

    1. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by cpuh0g · · Score: 0

      I stand by my assertion that RIM is circling the drain and have not had an innovative compelling product line in about 5 years. The Storm was an abortion, and that was their lame attempt at a touch screen to compete with iOS and Android? FAIL. Everything since then is basically a rehash of the same clunky keyboard and joystick interface. Yeah, they have some sort of touch technology, all crammed into a tiny little screen because they have to make room for the physical keyboard at the bottom. Its like a RAZR with a fancier keyboard.

      The playbook has been universally panned by everyone who has reviewed it, another epic failure.

      Do they have any sort of meaningful developer program to encourage an ecosystem of development for their pathetic app store? No, It's a joke. Nobody develops for RIM first. It's always iOS/Android, and then maybe the rest if they have time. RIM is part of "the rest" and that does not bode well for their future.

      You assert that the blackberry is untouchable in security. Please be specific.

      Finally, Its not FUD, its an observation and an opinion. I'm not a fanboy of apple or google, but its obvious to anyone paying attention that RIM is an also-ran in the field of mobile phones and consumer electronics in general. The other companies are growing market share, RIM is shrinking. Stick a fork in them now, they are done. They may hang around for a few years with the MS Exchange integration features, but that's not going to save their business, it'll just allow them to tread water or sink a little slower.

    2. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RIM might be rendering RIM products irrelevant.

      BBM on iOS and Android soon... makes consumers happy.
      iPhone and Android devices on BES soon... makes enterprises happy.

      Why buy an BB? What makes it better than any other smart phone? (playing devil's advocate)

      I'm a LONG time BB owner, have never owned or considered an iPhone until recently.
      I have the 9700 now, and I'm waiting to see what happens with iPhone 5 timing/features and I just may switch.

    3. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      The only people who get excited about new BBs are those in the enterprise world. That's about it. And that market is quickly shrinking and becoming saturated.

    4. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by Sunshinerat · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the BlackBerry users would love to use Android or iOS devices.
      I see plenty of corporate users all over the US switching to iOS/Android phones even though it is not endorsed by IT.
      Granted that BlackBerry email is more secure but for how much longer?
      RIM needs a solution that can keep them relevant, and it is not a new BlackBerry Bold with shiny new BB OS7, it is an iPhone or a (RIM) Android device with a BES client app.

      --
      Load New Commander (Y/N)?
    5. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Question 1: How many Blackberry owners do you see listening to an iPod?
      Question 2: How many iPhone owners do you see with a Blackberry?

    6. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      Insightful, but not wasting mod points on AC.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    7. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by jjetson · · Score: 1

      RIM will not be putting Android on it's devices...Not a chance. Android is way too insecure, and RIMs business is built on exemplary security.

    8. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are they? Gold? Modding up deserving AC's is practically the reason mod points exist, not to satisfy some clowns lust for "karma."

      Posting Anon so as not to undo moderations.

    9. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by exomondo · · Score: 1

      not wasting mod points on AC.

      why? it's the comment that's of value, not the author.

    10. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is what people were saying about Nokia a year ago.

    11. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Everything since then is basically a rehash of the same clunky keyboard and joystick interface.

      They have optical trackpads, and before that trackballs, it's hardly 'clunky' given it's pretty much the same interaction method as you get with any desktop or laptop. Not everyone wants to be pawing over the screen to get things done.

      Yeah, they have some sort of touch technology, all crammed into a tiny little screen because they have to make room for the physical keyboard at the bottom.

      did you consider that not everyone wants a virtual keyboard?

    12. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by speedlaw · · Score: 1

      my berry does a great job playing music...and I can actually download the songs too !!!

    13. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other companies are growing market share, RIM is shrinking

      Congratulations, you have drunk the cool-aid.

      RIM is shrinking by adding 50% year-on-year?

    14. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by NoseyNick · · Score: 1

      did you consider that not everyone wants a virtual keyboard?

      +1 +1! With my Torch keyboard I can fairly trivially beat swype's "world record for typing on a touchscreen", and I won't even pretend to be a demon typist.

      --
      Nick Waterman, Sr Tech Director, #include <stddisclaimer>
    15. Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Storm2 was a huge step up from the Storm. (I'm a satisfied Storm2 user for the past 18 months.)

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
  13. tracking bugs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's hope that this new release does not have a tracking 'bug' such as the one found on the iPhone. I'm beginning to agree with RMS' ideas......

  14. give me some attention!! by spazoid12 · · Score: 1

    using that old Pretenders song on the bb pad TV commercial just makes them sound a little bit desperate to me... "Give me some attention... PLEASE... anyone? anyone??? really, I'm special!"

  15. Take another look with your glasses on... by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's one area in which iOS/Android cannot even touch the BlackBerry - security.

    You're right. Google nor Apple, to my knowledge, has yet to sell me on "unbreakable" encryption and then turned around and made a deal with a foreign government to provide the tools to break said unbreakable encryption. Yep, my DroidX can't touch that. Well, I can call using RedPhone, and completely encrypt my voice calls, use Orbot (Tor) to anonymize and onion route my phone's communications, and I can use any number of private crypto messengers.

    Oh wait, did I mention that the folks at Whispersys.com (makers of RedPhone) also make WhisperCore 0.2? From the link: "Device and data security for Android. WhisperCore integrates with the underlying Android OS to protect everything you keep on your phone. This initial beta tech-demo features full disk encryption and basic platform management tools for Nexus S phones. WhisperCore presents a simple and unobstrusive interface to users, while providing powerful security and management APIs for developers."

    So... what were you saying about BlackBerry faux-security again?

    --
    I8-D
    1. Re:Take another look with your glasses on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And all of this had been certified to comply with what recognized security standards? None? When it's independantly validated as FIPS 140-2 compliant, we'll have this discussion again. Until then, stop with the FUD, it makes you sound fanboyish...

    2. Re:Take another look with your glasses on... by narcc · · Score: 1

      You're right. Google nor Apple, to my knowledge, has yet to sell me on "unbreakable" encryption and then turned around and made a deal with a foreign government to provide the tools to break said unbreakable encryption.

      Wow, what an impressive fail post!

      You know that only BIS users were affected by RIM giving in, right? BES users still enjoy unrivaled security, as they have come to expect.

      Even funnier -- the only reason RIM was under pressure (and made the news) is that foreign governments could read everyone else's communications -- just not BB users! (As I've already pointed out, they STILL can't touch BES users.)

      So... what were you saying about BlackBerry security again?

      That's what I thought. Pathetic.

      --
      Required reading for internet skeptics
    3. Re:Take another look with your glasses on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then turned around and made a deal with a foreign government to provide the tools to break said unbreakable encryption

      Whatever FUD the media may have convinced you of, there is STILL no known way to break AES short of what amounts to bruteforcing, and as AES is an option for BES, I fail to see the relevance of RIM providing access to BIS, or even encrypted BES data flowing through their servers.

      Noone who knows anything about how BES operates buys for a moment the nonsense that BES can hand anyone your plaintext email.

  16. Palm Deja Vu by Jonathan · · Score: 1

    I know -- it's so frighteningly like Palm -- even down to making a crippled version of whatever was hot at the time (a netbook for Palm; a tablet for RIM) that only work if tied to a phone of theirs.

  17. does anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    care?

  18. Correction by neiras · · Score: 2

    RIM doesn't have the private keys to decrypt the data you send through their infrastructure.

    Not always true.

    If your handset is using BES (Blackberry Enterprise Server), then RIM can't easily read your email. Each BES installation has its own private keys.

    If your handset is using BIS (Blackberry Internet Service), then your mail can be decrypted by the service provider just fine. Most consumer Blackberry plans are BIS.

    Access to BIS messaging is what Saudi Arabia et al. were after. I'm guessing they got it.

    1. Re:Correction by kevinmenzel · · Score: 1

      You CAN set up your own personal BES server if you want / have the aptitude to - there's a free version avaliable though I think you need to run your own exchange server or something so... I mean, I don't think the requirements are free - and it does mean you admining the machine yourself - but there you have it. There is an option, and it's fairly well integrated with the Blackberry platform... although it probably doesn't get you much until you have a lot of content exchange between only your server and your blackberry...

    2. Re:Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hi there, i live in one of those blessed places. Even if I provide my own BES server that does nto mean I will be allowed to use it.
      Latest change here is that Etisalat(the same one who got the ability to sign certificates and implement man in the niddle) now requires at least 20 accounts to allow you to use BES, if not, you are put on BIS.
      Oh well

  19. Because every Chrome version update was justified? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It might be a bit weak but it is what it is.

  20. Migration takes time by accessbob · · Score: 1

    It takes time to migrate to a new OS - your own development teams need training, your own device drivers need porting, your app developers need new tools and training, your help desk needs training. And you need to support your existing products and versions at the same time. If you think you can simply buy in a new OS and be up and running with it across all your existing embedded products in just 6 months, you're being a little naive. I'm pleased I don't work for you.

  21. I don't like 6 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I switched my tour to 6. I hate it. It was fine up until then. I was used to looking up something on Google with it and having people lose interest before I got a response on my phone - the 3G part.
    Mine is a couple months old.
    Why I hate it:
    - Hate the trackpad compared to the ball.
    - Hate the trays.
    - hate how just now I had it on speakerphone while on hold and each time I highlighted the mute button, and pushed it, the display kept switching to "adding a new contact". 3x while listening to the person say hello hello until they hung up on me. First time I've had it do that but it's always coming up with funny inventive little jerk-me-arounds.
    - hate the trays. When I use it, I feel like they wanted it to look in some way like apple or whatever and now, instead of scrolling sideways and moving to the next line down, I keep scrolling between screens trying to hit the Icon I need to open.
      I've tried to make them as close to each other as possible, but it still pisses me off when all I want to do is go over one icon and the screen switches over from favorites to frequent to media to downloads to all and then over again.
    The main thing is, I feel like there was attempt with 6 to make it LOOK more like apple. Not act like apple, not work better, not add functionality, just LOOK like apple to a first time user or something.
    Our office keeps trying different android phones and iphones trying to find something else so we can all get rid of them. We have some specialized software that we use with the blackberry's that's not there yet with anything else but I can barely wait. I feel like all day long it does something to piss me off. I hit the pad constantly while trying to write emails etc. and then have to close whatever menu option opens.
    I whine.
    - I hate the way some of the menu items are the same but not always in the same order.
    I'm unreasoned and not the most tech savvy but I would get anything else if work did not require us to have these...for now.
    My personal experience which was fine until 6 makes me think that they are in decline.

    1. Re:I don't like 6 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait I also forgot that my bluetooth speaker I have for this has much lower volume. I can pair it with other phones and its loud. It was loud on my old blackberry, I loaded my backup onto this, loaded 6 on it and hey would you listen to that, oh wait I can't hear it.

  22. Too fast by bmservice · · Score: 1

    I don't think their OS6.0 have even populatd yet, then they come out with another high version OS.

  23. Blackberry and wi-fi by copernic1 · · Score: 1

    Friends, Do you know why there is no way to check our email on blackberry through wi-fi? does it make any sense? Regards,

    1. Re:Blackberry and wi-fi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Friends, Do you know why there is no way to check our email on blackberry through wi-fi? does it make any sense? Regards,

      Because you need a carrier's BIS system to get to the Blackberry email and they don't allow direct connection over the internet. You have a couple of options:

      1) Use UMA (Bold 9700 on T-Mobile supports it)
      2) Use LogicMail, although this is not very well integrated into Blackberry.

  24. NOT upgradeable to OS7 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article I read in the newspaper today stated that OS7 is not available as an upgrade for older OS6 devices.

    It requires and takes advantage of the new hardware.

    It is not based on the playbook os.