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Intel To Build Next Gen Processor For iOS Devices
BogenDorpher writes "It looks like Apple will be using Intel as a main processor manufacturer to power the iPad, iPod touch, and the iPhone. Apple, who currently uses Samsung, will focus on making a switch to Intel within a year."
Apple hasn't been happy with Samsung launching android phones, and this is how they're showing their displeasure.
I wonder if they has anything to do with the Samsung and Apply suing each other
And it seems like the only article is a Windows/MS obsessed site? Doesn't seem reliable to me...
I thought Intel only did x86/64 and Samsung didn't do either. Is this another PowerPC->Intel type move from Apple or am I missing something (quite likely)?
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Either: 1. Intel is going to build a non-x86 cpu with their fab -- highly unlikely. or 2. Apple is going to lose a tremendous amount of battery life -- highly unlikely. Maybe several generations down the line we'll see a x86 chip with acceptable power characteristics for a cell phone or tablet, but not next year.
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I don't think intel are going to produce any rectangular-with-rounded-edges shaped tablets any time soon.
Intel makes more than one kind of CPU. The site appears slashdotted, but I very seriously doubt is will be based upon the x86 series of processors. Plus it could be that Apple is going to use Intel fabrication facilities to make the A6 chip (or whatever it's called). They eat too many amp-hours.
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Maybe the i* will get Intel's on chip graphic card included in the deal. That could be a killer feature.
Meanwhile MS has just started chasing ARM.
And by "just started" you mean they've had versions of Windows on ARM for going on near 15 years?
The report from EETimes suggests Intel is only going after foundry business to produce the A-series processors for Apple, not that Apple is looking to change architectures.
It could be Apple leaving Samsung, or it could be they've decided to go with multiple suppliers for everything to reduce potential impacts from future disasters.
Considering Apple has recently gone on a company buying spree to bring low power ARM design people and IP in house, put considerable effort into building a software infrastructure on ARM, and that despite their best efforts Intel hasn't been able to demonstrate an x86 processor that matches modern ARMs in consumer electronics power consumption, does this make any sense?
OR is some blog nobody has heard of trying to drive traffic and/or pump Intel's stock?
Volume?
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Its likely Intel would be a contract manufacturer in this case, just manufacturing Apple's custom designed processor. Not something Intel would usually embrace, but with their current impotence in the mobile market, it may be the best they can hope for. They keep Apple close and get back in the ARM game (indirectly). Apple gets world class fabs from someone who isn't directly competing with them at retail.
When Apple switched to Intel chips a few years back, I remembered all the venom spewed toward Intel by all my Apple-obsessed friends over the previous 20 years.
Now they cherish their Intel chips. But they still bash MS. Why, I got an Outlook e-mail from one of my Apple friends just yesterday, sending me a Powerpoint presentation he had made on his Mac, with a funny joke about how lame MS is.
I had no problem opening it in OpenOffice on my AMD-powered CentOS box.
I think the pile of existing ARM iOS programs is bigger then the hypothetical list of native PPC programs.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Probably because (quoting Wikipedia): "P. A. Semi (originally "Palo Alto Semiconductor"[1]) was a fabless semiconductor company"
You still need a fab. Apple already knows how to design CPUs.
It's probably more accurate to say "x86 architecture doesn't seem to be very good with battery (duh!)". The iPhone won't be switching to an x86 processor.
Samsung is a vast conglomerate of many businesses in many sectors. The people who make the phones so not share a cafeteria with the people who make the processors, and more importantly the people who make the phones don't always buy their processors from Samsung.
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...Apptel? Inpple?
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Yes, but it's not a vindictive type of thing - it's strategy. "Well Samsung, you have a bit more to lose if you stay on your present course.
How big is the revenue Samsung gets from making Apple devices, percentagewise? It should be tiny compared to all of their business, right?
And the revenue they get from their own Android devices? Is it even less than they get from Apple? After all, the margins on them should be much better for Samsung.
I have some problems believing Samsung would be at all impressed by this, but maybe the numbers I have in my head are off.
was a fabless semiconductor company
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.A._Semi
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It appears from casual googling, that Intel could make the A5 using a smaller process size than the current ARM manufacturers are able to produce.
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You may call that drop in the bucket if you want, but I don't Samsung is going to.
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early 2012 Intel is going to release 22nm CPU's. Almost every ARM SoC is 45nm. the power and performance improvements are huge. i bet Intel will just fab the A6 CPU instead of Samsung.
or maybe there is a secret Atom 22nm CPU coming soon that will be a lot more power efficient
yup, on samsung made processors... NT-4 for ARM maybe?
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that's 140 million dollars in sales in the most recent quarter on iPads alone (nevermind iphones or ipods).
You may call that drop in the bucket if you want, but I don't Samsung is going to.
Sure, but they sold over 10 million of the Android phones Apple is pissed about (Galaxy S), at what, 400 bucks each? So that's over twice as much, for one model alone.
They are not switching to Intel processors. They are letting Intel build their processors. Big difference.
They will just probably use Intel's advanced 22nm technology to build processors based on ARM architecture. Something they might also design themselves.
Much like GlobalFoundries is not AMD, they just manufacture AMD products.
Who ever posted the story left out the "?" from the original submitter which changes the entire context of the article. The article itself is a speculation based on what Intel is rumored to want to do. There is not a confirmation that they are going to fab Apple's iOS chips.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I strongly suspect that(even if PA semi weren't fabless) lack of backwards compatibility is seen as a feature, not a bug, by Apple. The last thing that they want is to make it easier for people to release warmed-over desktop applications for their precious touch-based platforms. Trying to make a handheld desktop is more or less what made WinCE such a pain in the ass to use. Apple would likely deliberately break compatibility before putting up with that, even if it could be enabled without switching architectures.
Maybe they are planning to switch to Windows like Nokia did?
Ugh. Where to start?
Here's just the tip of the iceberg:
1. rectangular electronic devices with/without rounded corners
2, icons: either in rows & columns or all over the place
3. cell phones
4. devices with touch screens
5. multi-touch
6. pinch to zoom
and perhaps the biggest:
7. thinking they invented everything
Engadget has an interesting article that covers some of this: http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/
And one other interesting article: http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html
The buzzword for the transition half a decade ago was "Macintel".
for fans of Android! I kid, I kid. Seriously though, did Intel get good at power efficiency while I was gone? I seem to remember the xScale being one heck of a power hog, and ARMS kicking their rears pretty badly...
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After taking a massive dump onto their supply chain (Samsung), Apple has declared that Intel is their new chip maker of choice.
Spin. Spin. Spin. Go the revisionist Apple PR people. Spin. Spin. Spin.
Looking back, This probably didn't help the relationship....or was a sign it was over.
Some blog nobody has heard of trying to drive traffic and/or pump Intel's stock?
OR you didn't RTFA.
Yeah, it's the second one.
Which is just terrible compared with ARM. Ultra complex ISA compared to ARM. No low power features (such as true predication). etc,etc... It will never happens (if you take into account that Apple just bought PSemi)
that's 140 million dollars in sales in the most recent quarter on iPads alone (nevermind iphones or ipods). You may call that drop in the bucket if you want, but I don't Samsung is going to.
Sure, but they sold over 10 million of the Android phones Apple is pissed about (Galaxy S), at what, 400 bucks each? So that's over twice as much, for one model alone.
When Samsung sells a part for $X to a supplier, they get $X. When a Samsung phone is sold for $Y, they do not collect $Y. The phone is sold through other entities, who also choose to profit.
Apple is reported to be buying 7.8 billion from Samsung this year alone through existing contracts. This makes them their largest customer. So yeah, it's a big deal. Probably worth settling lawsuits and licensing patents over. Time will tell.
as a developer; it is going to be a royal pain in the rear to recompile our apps to support another processor architecture; unless of course they go down the emulation route; but using x86 and emulating ARM is going to require a lot of processing power. if intel was to build ARM chips; sure - but typically we associated x86 with intel. apple has experience with this with the transition from PPC to x86 for the mac osx environment; i am sure they'll keep that in mind for iOS developers as well. i would only see recompilation as feasible - emulating ARM wouldn't make sense.
What better way is there to learn about a competing processor (i.e., A5) than to make it for them?
Er Didn't Apple buy a chip manufacturer so they could design their own chips? Who makes the A4 and A5 chips? I don't think it's Samsung...
or else!
You should read articles you cite and link to. From the very link you give:
In reality the data shown in the graphic are incorrect
In fact, the iPhone was first shown before the Samsung F700 was first shown, and the iPhone was released before the F700 was released.
IOW, the Samsung F700 was a copy of the original iPhone, and the dates on the graphic from the link you give are a lie.
Check your facts before making such accusations.
Yup. The slashdot article and the winbeta article it references don't really unpack this, but this is about Intel's foundry business, not their x86 business. Presumably Intel will be making A5s in their foundry. It would be bizarre for Apple to switch away from the A4/A5 processor line after the investment they've made in it, particularly because there's simply no way the x86 architecture can ever go toe-to-toe with the ARM architecture on power efficiency.
And when they get their $X for the part, they have to subtract cost it took to actually manufacture it of $Z. So it could very well end up being that $Y - overhead is much more lucrative than $X - $Z.
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Jesus was a liberal
apparently you've never heard of the xscale line..
Intel used to make ARM cpu's for PDA's and Smart Phones - but as all they did was make good CPU's they didn't have a hand in growing the market. When others started coming in and making ARM cpu's that where close enough in performance but a lot cheaper - Intel decided to just back out and sell off their ARM devision to Marvell and focus on x86.
Apple is using ARM - and they are now designing their own IC's.. but Apple does not have the ability in house to fab their chips - Intel on the other hand has the best fabs in the world.. this makes perfect sense for both companies.
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
You should read articles you cite and link to. From the very link you give:
In reality the data shown in the graphic are incorrect
In fact, the iPhone was first shown before the Samsung F700 was first shown, and the iPhone was released before the F700 was released.
IOW, the Samsung F700 was a copy of the original iPhone, and the dates on the graphic from the link you give are a lie.
Check your facts before making such accusations.
I wouldn't say that's evidence of anybody copying anybody. Unless there's a substantial amount of time between when designs were made public, there's no reason to conclude that somebody copied the other. Certainly, the 1 month difference between when the two were shown is clear evidence nobody "stole" anything, but rather independently came up with their own designs. There's only so many ways you can design a touchscreen mobile phone. It was bound to happen.
If you aren't suspicious of your government's actions, you aren't doing your job as a responsible citizen.
simply no way the x86 architecture can ever go toe-to-toe with the ARM architecture on power efficiency.
Spoken like someone without a clue. There is fundamentally absolutely nothing in x86 that would cause it to consume more power than ARM. If anything the instruction predication in ARM gives x86 an advantage.
As ARM processors get more performance competitive with x86 they are beginning to match the power usage too. The big power advantage in current high performance ARM's is more due to the SOC integration than the architecture. Just wait, I will bet that in another generation or two, the roles will reverse as intel brings a much better fab process/integration, and the huge force of making a limited number of CPU models to bear against the dozens of ARM vendors each trying to optimize their particular design against a generic fab process. Samsung and Renesas might be the only ARM vendors with a chance, but even Renesas seems to prefer the SuperH.
> You can't get where Apple is by being vindictive and petty - contrary to the public rumors about Jobs.
That's a truthful statement but perhaps not exactly the way you meant it. Apple as a company can not afford to be petty and vindictive, and as a whole it has not been. Jobs, however, can and does exhibit these characteristics.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Can someone point out where it says that Apple is abandoning its ARM-based architecture and going x86?
...yeah, didn't think so.
Go to the original EE times article. Read it. There is no claim that Apple is dumping ARM or its own SOC design in favor of x86. Apple is simply changing foundries because they don't trust Samsung any more. Intel is just as capable of making A5s, etc. as Samsung. Apple will continue to design its own SOC; they're just using someone else's fabs.
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
Spoken like someone without a clue. There is fundamentally absolutely nothing in x86 that would cause it to consume more power than ARM.
One something: the instruction decoder in x86 is more complex. Another: The overhead of supporting byte-aligned instructions and data access.
There are many more somethings, but I only needed one to prove you wrong (and that between you two, mellon is not the clueless one).
Nothing in this article has anyone on record from either Intel, Apple (or anyone in between). Link bait and not deserving anyone's time.
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The company's current line of chips are at best on architecturally on par with everyone else
Unrivaled bullshit. Their mobile chips - yes. Their normal desktop/server chips are well ahead of anyone else.
Intel spends massive amounts on fab R&D and as a result are usually a node (generation) ahead of everyone else. Intel has had 32nm online and working for quite some time now. All Sandy Bridge chips are 32nm, many gen 1 Core i series laptops are 32nm, and so on.
Other fabs are catching up, GF will probably have 32nm chips coming out fairly soon for AMD, but Intel has been doing it for a long time, has scaled things up and has it working well. Also they are already building their 22nm fabs.
Only time Intel got outdone to an extent was with some companies doing a 40nm half-node. TSMC scaled down the 45nm process to 40nm and it is what all the GPU makers use now. Fine but it was fraught with problems and took a long time to get it working right and producing in volume. By that time Intel had 32nm parts on the market.
Same thing may happen again, a number of companies like TSMC are looking at skipping 32nm and going for a 28nm half node, based on 32nm scaled down. If they get that producing this year as they think they can, then they'll temporarily be ahead of Intel until Intel brings 22nm online.
However over all, Intel is always ahead on this shit. They spend a lot of money to stay that way.
i wonder if this means iOS will be modified for the x86 architecture...
In fact, the iPhone was first shown before the Samsung F700 was first shown
You are right, however there was 1 month between them, clearly they were designed in parallel so the design is so simple it's just obvious. No-one copied anyone, they were both original and considering the basic and simplistic design as well as the timing it's hardly a stretch to imagine this is just coincidence.
If Apple wants to have some common code between iOS and Mac OS X, using an Intel CPU on the iOS side would make things easier. Depending that is, on how similar the iOS cpu is to the x86 cpu's in the Mac OS X machines.