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Square Enix Facing Big Losses For 2010
eldavojohn writes "It's no secret that Final Fantasy XIV took a lot of heat early on, which required extensive damage control. And the Japanese tsunami (which appears to have added $7.5 million to their losses) certainly didn't help. But if what early investor reports are saying is true, then Square Enix is expected to report $148 million in losses for the closing fiscal year. Expect title cancellations (which might add to the hurt) and a very painful realization for the owner of Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior (PDF). Perhaps a move to re-releasing classics will prove more fruitful than high development cost MMORPGs?"
In square-enix, the square is silent.
Hope it keeps happening until they make a new Final Fantasy that doesn't suck. Cold day in hell, I know.
I haven't been able to play through an FF game since. I keep trying, but I think I can now draw a parallel between trying candy corn every year and still hating it every attempt.
What happened to the Tomb Raider Series? You could buy that on proper disks and it worked well.
The purpose of existence is to make money.
Why not...uh...find out what made the classics classic and do a bit more of that?
You know, games with interesting, non-whiney characters, non-linear story with some exploration in gameplay, music that is better tailored to each scene so it doesn't sound like they just put a track in to fill the silence.
How could a company that consistently produced quality entertainment for nearly two decades be reduced to a mere shadow of its former self? What happened? As probably one of the few people on /. that actually loved FFXI, I have to say, FFXIV was a complete waste of time. FFXI was fun, but it didn't age well, and there were a lot of things that SE could have learned from and done better. Instead of learning from their mistakes, they ended up making a less fun, more frustrating version of FFXI, and thought that making it pretty would solve everything. Well, it didn't, and now they're paying the price for it.
SE needs to go back to the mindset that they had when they were just Square. They need to stop cranking out duds every 3 months. We need games that are on the caliber of FFVI, Chrono Trigger, and Xenogears. Otherwise, the world will simply stop caring about them... that is, if we haven't stopped caring already.
Ha, I forgot FF XIV even existed...
If Deus Ex: Human Revolution is done right, they'll be well into the black again.
August 11th, folks. Diaries should be marked.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
It's really that simple, squeenix has lost all manner of quality.
They just make ugly designs, annoying musc, 100% grindy gameplay and stories which grow less and less cool.
The main problem is that japans gaming culture and western gaming culture has grown more and more widely apart.
This really hurts their market.
They and GPG might have had another big money-maker with Supreme Commander 2, but they went overboard trying to solve the resource demands in big (skirmish) games (the TA-SC games are CPU-intensive). It wound up oversimplified to an embarrassing degree relative to its predecessors, to the point where many gamers loyal to the TA-SC franchise just didn't want to play it and stuck with Supreme Commander (I) and SC:Forged Alliance instead, in spite of the aforementioned demands. I learned to change my expectations and enjoy it, but it earned a lot of negative karma for what was done. I don't know whether it was Square Enix or GPG making those design choices, but it cost them.
I think we all know that nothing can possibly match the venerable "Final Fantasy 7" in freedom, storyline, immersion, and... who the fuck am I kidding. They're all bad, folks.
They've been sitting on remaking FF7 for years. $150 million would probably be covered by just the initial release if they were to produce an updated version with modern tech.
Not that I care either way--I hated that game and pay less attention to Square with each year. But they _could_ do it any time if they only wanted to.
So are we finally getting a final final fantasy?
Who knows exactly how much FFXIV is costing them in development costs and server costs, but that ship has sailed. There's no point sinking money into something that will never turn a profit.
It's been seven months now. The improvements the game has made are minor at best. (The two biggest are that leveling combat classes is now possible, and that the market place works. Not well, mind you, but it works.) If you ask anyone playing whether or not you should, they'll tell you flat-out it isn't worth it.
This is not the sign of a game on the road to profitability. With every week that goes by, the ability to earn new players goes down.
Once they've stopped throwing money at a failed game, then they can start worrying about creating new games that people actually want to play.
But first, they've got to stop the bleeding.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
For extra credit, how much do you have to charge to cover sales, marketing, legal, management, blow and hookers.
Perhaps the game is just changing, and hojillion yen AAA titles aren't the sure thing they once were, is all. I believe it's still the case that no movie costing over $100,000,000 to make has ever lost money (yes, including Waterworld), but it doesn't follow that the same applies to games.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
They could have made a new Thief, a new Hitman, Legacy of Kain, or Timesplitters. What did we get?
A couple of lackluster entries from the tired Tomb Raider franchise while everything else sat on the back burner. They held back some of the most revered franchises of all time, and for what? What were they waiting for?
The Japanese need to realize you can only rehash classics from the 80s and 90s so many times. Final Fantasy was ahead of it's time with FF7 but they didn't keep innovating and most of the games 5 or 10 years later is still the same kind of character and plot of FF7. But most importantly they should never have gone Playstation exclusive with their flagship titles. Even though the last FF game they released for PC was kind of boring (FF8) I still would have bought FF9 had it been released for PC. But after getting bored of FF8 half way through there's no way I would buy a console just for that! Now ten years later they want to release an MMORPG for PC? Shea right! My brand loyalty is dead by now.
Oh, also my mom actually tried to play FF Online and they wouldn't take her perfectly valid credit card because Square-Enix wanted some weird special verification from the card company that you had to call and wait on hold forever to get it authorized and she was like "oh, screw it" and went back to playing Mass Effect 2 or whatever she plays. I was like "Shoulda got Warcraft dude, the Japanese haven't innovated since like 1994".
So basically they shafted all the PC fans years ago and now expect us to take a chance on this half baked MMORPG? Ok, for the people they actually get a sale with they can't even complete the transaction cuz of some security theater nonsense with the credit cards! You don't need a Harvard MBA to see this business isn't going to be going "from good to great". Haha.
They could have made a new Thief, a new Hitman, Legacy of Kain, or Timesplitters. What did we get?
A couple of lackluster entries from the tired Tomb Raider franchise while everything else sat on the back burner. They held back some of the most revered franchises of all time, and for what? What were they waiting for?
it's been almost 10 years since legacy of kain defiance and that series has one of the best storylines ever. but all they do is keep spamming a new tomb raider title every year with the old dev group which sucks that they keep that game on the back burner. it's beyond pathetic anymore that this great franchise has wasted away.
Maybe they could make GOOD games!
Square-Enix's problems mirror, to a large extent, those that have afflicted the wider Japanese gaming industry (including, once you discount early Wii hardware sales, Nintendo), during the current console cycle.
At the heart of this is a failure to evolve their games and franchises to reflect changing times and tastes. If often feels like the modern Japanese games industry doesn't recognise anything between "no change at all" and "total ground-up redesign". It's instructive to compare how the most successful Western developers have managed franchises and general gaming concepts over this time. If you look at the likes of Bioware, Bethesda, Bungie, Blizzard, Valve, even some of EA's own internal development efforts, you can see a pretty ruthless evolutionary approach to design. When a game comes out and the studio begins development either on a sequel or even a new property, the first thing that seems to happen is a look at what people liked and didn't like about the previous game, with this being factored into the development of the sequel.
Take Bioware as a case-study here. Baldur's Gate came out in 1998 and was pretty successful. However, it was the sequel, which came out a couple of years later, that really revolutionised Western RPGs. Why? Because Bioware had evolved the franchise, removing aspects of the original game that had been "a bit too pen and paper" for CRPG players (such as no-pausing-on-the-inventory-screen mechanics and large amounts of wilderness crawling) and had expanded the areas that had been well received (adding further complexity to the casting system, expanding character dialogue trees and so on). Once Bioware moved on from the Baldur's Gate series, they continued releasing RPGs that very clearly had BG in their DNA, but which shed some of the pricklier aspects of the old series, while borrowing popular elements of Japanese RPGs (such as the "active party" system). Then having reached a point where they faced a serious conflict between hardcore RPG gamers and the more casual crowd, they essentially "fork" their games, with the Dragon Age series pitched for the hardcore and the Mass Effect series for the action demographic. That isn't to say that Bioware don't make mis-steps - Dragon Age 2 feels very much like a mis-step, and Jade Empire can probably be seen as one with hindsight - but an evolutionary approach like this makes it much easier to get back on track after a wobble.
Then compare Square-Enix's management of its premier RPG property - the Final Fantasy series. There's no evidence of a planned evolutionary approach to the development of the series - just an odd mixture of clinging to past certainties combined with random-throw-of-the-dice leaps into the dark. There are elements of the Final Fantasy series on show in FF13 which feel like products of another era. Random encounters (and I'm sorry, but making them visible on the field map doesn't make them any less random encounters) have been pretty much entirely ditched in the West. Our developers have figured out that - surprise surprise - gamers don't like spending a couple of hours runnng in circles in a dungeon just to level up. Yes, levelling up is part of RPGs, but any Western RPG worth its salt these days ensures that it is done via interesting sidequests and subplots. And yet there they are, still at the centre of the flagship Japanese RPG series (and pretty much every other JRPG).
The throw-of-the-dice element seems to come in the way that Square-Enix completely changes its battle and level up systems (and often even wider mechanics) for each installment in the series. At times, this has been a strength. It does keep the games from feeling a bit too samey. But when the throw of the dice produces a result that people actually like, it inexplicably never seems to get developed any further. So, for example, FF12's move towards more open-world gameplay was pretty widely welcomed, even by people who didn't like much else about the game. Yet then FF13 comes out and is basically a 30 hour tunnel for the player to
"Perhaps a move to re-releasing classics will prove more fruitful than high development cost MMORPGs".
They've already re-released almost all of their classics for GBA and Wii.
Get me:
(1) A New Final Fantasy on a tablet and other portable device that, (2) While still pretty, (3) Has a fun and exciting mechanism incorporating touchscreen RPGing and (4) Isn't prepared by a poll of "things teenagers like". Make sure that it (6) Has a triage that goes: Gameplay, Immersiveness, Storyline, and then Graphics; and (7) Has an ability, in some form, to interact with other players, be it via Bluetooth or over the Internet.
You risk falling victim to being another dead game company if you continue to emphasize high-budget "Wow!" games over ones that will actually draw new players into the series. You don't have to abandon the concepts you've developed, but please, just try something new. Is that so much to ask?
And nothing of value was lost.
Looking back, FFVII remains one of my favorite experiences. I tried to think more carefully about why on a recent replay.
The top thing had to be the music. It was just fantastic. Maybe I just like chiptunes, but even as late as FFX, it seemed like they had some notable 'background' tracks. Now it seems like they are all generic toned down orchestral pieces that aren't noticable at all and just barely tweak to fit the mood. Except for when they make some pop song to prop up somewhere in the middle of the game...
The open ended nature of exploration absolutely was up there. There are a lot of games that continue to get this part at least. One of the big moments when playing FFVII for the first time was leavinig midgar. Up until that point, I thought it was going to be a game like FFX or later turned out to be. Then when the world map presented itself, the contrast did a lot (for me) toward making midgar feel more like a cramped place with little control of your destiny relative to the larger world.
Another thing was how the story panned out. The general theme was certainly not new, but the details were so convoluted, I liked it. Of course, I like Crono Trigger and there was nothing partiuclarly complex about the story at all.
Finally, I think the lack of definition and no voice actors helped. I fill in the details with whatever I like. Crisis Core tought me I really won't like the voice actors if I get to make up my mind about how they should sound ahead of time.
The worst thing was the translation.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
The extreme losses are from the "Entertainment facilities" from damage from the earthquake (0.8billion yen)
The FFXIV was so slapped together that I completely forgot I bought it since I haven't logged into it after the first month. It only appealed to me for the FF storyline, but it's too bloody grindy just to get to the storyline bits.
I've wondered about this for years myself. A remade FF7, for PS3 and 360, with modern graphics, a few user interface tweaks and possibly a bit of bonus content on the side (like a new optional dungeon or something) would be an absolute gold-mine. Unfortunately, I remember some comments that came out of them last year, to the effect that it would simply be too expensive to remake FF7.
I'm not sure I can understand how this could possibly be. In terms of size and scale, the game isn't particularly different to other JRPGs. Lost Odyssey, which came out a few years ago now for the 360, had a perfectly acceptable level of current-gen graphics. Factor in that FF7's cutscenes are on the short side compared to those in... say... FF13 and it's hard to see how the price could truly be that prohibitive. I can only assume that S-E were thinking that if they were to remake FF7, they'd need to quadruple the length of all of the cutscenes, adding in a bunch of new Advent Children-style fight scenes and whatnot. That in itself illustrates a good chunk about why the company is going wrong.
Well the last tomb raider was quite good and a good break from the 20th rehash of the same the same goes for the next tomb raider, there is a new deus ex in the line as well. Ah yes I would love to see another Thief title. But for me both series are not really the same without Warren Spector and Doug Church at the helm.
Timesplitters
yes fucking please! Bring me a new timesplitters and i will buy it outright, hell, if needed i will buy a new console to run it on. TS2 was pure unadulterd briliance, the most fun i've had multiplaying any FPS and TS:FP put in an awesome storyline too, not to mention a much more expanded multiplayer mode, the level editing was groundbreaking
People, what a bunch of bastards
Isn't that pretty much all they've been doing tons of already?
But they keep insisting on remaking crap like FF2j.
What they should probably do is something like
1) Remake Final Fantasy VII
2) ????
3) Profit!
People have been screaming and shouting for an FFVII remake for 10+ years. There are people who would sell their souls to Sony for a remake of that game. Yet they're absolutely adamant that it's never going to happen. There's a market here waiting to give them full high-end retail prices for a game that is already done and just needs a graphical revamp.. take the money!!
I think there are quite a few who wouldn't mind a remake of VI either.
It's all well and good saving an FFVII remake for a "special occasion" but that's never going to happen if S-E go bankrupt.
Either that or go back to making *new* FFs that don't suck. For that they'll probably need Sakaguchi back (preferably Uematsu too)
Sony is what has kept me from playing any of the new FF series. Why?
Initially the incredibly high cost of buying into the PS3. I can just about by a shitty used car for what they wanted for it when it was first released.
Then what happened? The price remained relatively high. This part is fairly normal - I typically wait for the price to drop a bit (and it has) and then start measuring out ways to justify such a purchase. But here's the thing - Sony's given me absolutely no reason to *invest* in their console. Particularly with their maneuver of removing OtherOS which was a major selling point for me. And hell, now the recent nonsense with them getting hacked AND losing critical customer data doesn't help one bit.
So let's take a look at the market now:
We've got the Wii - which has a few games I absolutely love. The Mario franchise is one that almost always tries to be innovative in some manner and defines new game styles (Mario Galaxy and Paper Mario are some examples that come to mind). Plus the ability to download and play SNES games on there is a big selling point as well (Super Mario RPG anyone?). However, there isn't much more for me beyond that unfortunately. One big con for me is the relatively small list of games that can be played over the network with friends. But the price is spot-on for what I feel it's worth all things considered.
Now, the Xbox 360: I'm not a huge Halo or teabagging fan but the Xbox 360 DOES have a shit-ton of games out - MANY of which are supported by the Live system. The price is a bit higher but I haven't seen Microsoft shaft their customers on the Xbox nearly as bad as we've seen Sony do. While the titles aren't my absolute faves that I've played so far - I feel confident I could find something I'd enjoy and could play with friends online.
For those reasons I'm considering heavily in investing in an Xbox 360. I think it'd make a good media player - from what I've read so far it supports a pretty robust set of features for that functionality (by all means correct me if I'm wrong). I think the game selection wont leave me hanging. And fuck, it's not Sony.
you shoulda made another Dragon Quest for the PS console. Dragon Quest Valley of the Cursed King was one of the greatest games ever.
Where does the signature go?
As selfish as this may be it increases the odds of a FFIX re-release! FFIX is my favorite videogame in existence, so I'm all for it. Mildly crash and burn squenix. Only enough so you are forced to re-release FFIX in HD, perhaps enhancing the storyline while you're at it!! :) And maybe throw in a new addition to the Chrono Trigger franchise too (a true sequel, with the same charm and feel as CT, not a travesty like CC).
Oh yeah, also don't crash and burn for real. I really do love square enix games and would rather have them occasionally release a gem (with a handful of turds in between) than have them not exist at all!
Many people will not pay again and again and again for the same game. I bought them once, I personally am not going to buy them again.
Unless they are happy to exist simply as the shadow if their former self, they are going to have to make new games that people want to pay for.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
Everyone talks about a FFVII remake (and with good reason, that's a huge cash cow waiting to be milked), but personally I would pay top dollar for a SoM remake that allowed me to play the co-op multiplayer feature over PSN.
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"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
honestly all the FF games seem to look the same to me. i think they need new art direction and to focus on what made their old games classics to begin with. actually a more open hybrid game breeding games like elder scrolls/FO3 and the Final Fantasy franchise could be cool.
re-release couldn't hurt if they add value, and i'm not talking about just porting chrono trigger to the iPhone. i would totally buy a re-release of FF7 with updated graphics and gameplay for the Wii or the PC.
I'd rather just fire up my NES again then shell out more money.
The only time I'd buy a remake is if it got significant improvements, FF7 comes to mind as a game every nerd wants remade.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
VII isn't even that great. I 'enjoyed' it when I played it back in 97 but it wasn't mind-blowing like III/VI was. I think the SNES Final Fantasy III/VI was their crowning achievement for the series.
If a Final Fantasy game MUST be remade, I say do a word-for-word, scene-for-scene remake of Final Fantasy III/VI or, even better - Chrono Trigger. That was another amazing game. I've played through Trigger at least 10 times and I probably haven't even gotten all the endings. I'd also love a true sequel to Chrono Trigger, seeing as how Chrono Cross was just... awful.
I loved FF tactics for PSX. Please release it for Xbox live arcade and I will gladly give you $15. Take the engine, make a new game and release that and I will gladly give you another $15. I'm sure I'm not the only one
I think two simple things would go a long way towards recapturing the magic that Square game used to have:
1. More interactivity
2. A fucking editor
Actually, that would help other games too (I'm looking at you, Metal Gear Solid). The fan favorites all have these attributes -- there is no more of the game than there needs to be, and the player is actually allowed to play it. Up through FF7 Square did both of these well. Things like stopping a speeding train or doing exercises to keep warm in a blizzard required the player to push buttons in sequence. Cut scenes were only used for huge vistas or key events, which made them more exciting. Dialogue was short and (mostly) meaningful. Things got slowly worse after that, culminating in FF12, which had almost no world interaction (it's an MMO engine) and was so padded with side-quests that the main plot lost all urgency. I haven't played FF13, but I hear it's even worse.
If Square can make the jump back to good game design, I think there's hope for Final Fantasy. It's not like Metal Gear or Star Wars where the director's vision is inherently a bad game.
Visit the
its becouse after 10-2 they tryed to chgange the ff games from the classic hits they have always been. from the turn based battle systems attempted to make them realtime all failers then 13 comes out and they took out freeroam. 14 is a mmo that was a bug ridden mess still tryed to change the game. and yes 10-2 was pre merger.
I just realized the subject should say are, not aren't.
And yes, I agree wholeheartedly with chrono trigger being remade/getting a sequel, though, didn't it get a DS remake?
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Trigger got a re-release on the DS or Advance, I believe and it had a small bit of extry content to make it meld better with the terrible Chrono Cross, but it was just a re-release much like the PSX version. I'd like to see a true current-gen graphics version. There was actually an amateur remake out there but it was killed off by Square pretty quick. I'm pretty sure there are still some screenies of it out on the Intertubes.
After their latest RPG game did not do very well, then they have one last shot to make it up. If they made an RPG, a really good, innovative one, as their one final shot at making it again. It will be make or break, their final chance. Maybe make it an RPG set in a fantasy world. They could call it Final Fantasy since it could very possibly be there Final Fantasy.
The world is how you make it
...maybe they could stop releasing TERRIBLE GAMES?
I'm still waiting for a proper Chrono Trigger re-release/remake.
High res character sprites, environments in 3D using hand-drawn textures. Leave the original story as-is, but add a bunch of side quests, and some more cause/effect time travel events...
They do that while us original Chrono Trigger players are STILL ALIVE, and they just might make people forget about a couple-few years worth of TERRIBLE GODDAMN GAMES.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
nm
Apparently they got hacked too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13394968
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
I'll be sure to look for them when I have the time.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
They've been doing that for years. Just look at how many times two of their best games, Final Fantasy IV and VI, have been re-released or remade.
I hope that they don't have to cancel their KH series, it's popular among teens and younger even, Personally I'm waiting for the third to come out because the graphics on a mere PS2 and pretty tiny screen were breathtaking. Can't wait to see what they do with the new technology!!
The big problem with Final Fantasy games getting worse with age, the way I see it, is that the series, and many classic turn based RPGs, didn't evolve enough where many other genres and series have. Twenty years ago when Final Fantasy had such a strong following despite tiny pixellated graphics, they had something other games didn't. In an age where points were what mattered and most games had but the simplest of plots, Final Fantasy had characters with personality and background (relatively speaking to other games at the very least), and there was drama. While the rest of the game was spamming "Fight" over and over and healing when necessary, there was a story with endearing characters traveling together and meshing in odd ways. Fast forward to the turn of the century and Final Fantasy still tries to make their games this way. However, the other games have grown up by now. Castlevania, Grand Theft Auto, even Metroid and Super Mario are fleshing in their characters and trying to create a story. Except these series were already actual games. The end result is that pretty much any game you pick up will attempt Final Fantasy's dramatics alongside actual gameplay. Now I'm sure some will argue that some people don't want to play games that require cat like reflexes or hold greater chances of failure, but the classic RPG engine doesn't necessarily have to evolve towards action. Strategy RPGs continue the turn based tradition of Fight/Magic/Item/etc but with added depth that keeps random encounters or grinding or whatever from being the monotonous chore that it usually winds up being. Final Fantasy Tactics went this route as a matter of fact. Now while I haven't played FFXIII word has it that they made it linear, took away from the town going experience, and I know that as far back as FFX the World Map stopped being a thing. That sounds to me like a step backwards from precisely the thing that gave FF its magic.
How about actually coming up with some new content instead of rehashing the same tired crap?
CT is great as it is and do not need any remakes. It only needs a sequel!
I really liked the DS version since it allowed several fun hours during long trips, but I still prefer the SNES version.
Maybe they should have supported the most popular console of the generation instead of releasing off-brand titles with "Crystal" in the name.