HP Advances Next-Gen Memory Technology

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HP Advances Next-Gen Memory Technology

Posted by samzenpus on Monday May 16, 2011 @12:08AM from the newest-and-greatest dept.

angry tapir writes "HP scientists have made a small breakthrough in the development of a next-generation memory technology called memristors, which some see as a potential replacement for today's widely used flash and DRAM technologies. In a paper to be published today in the journal Nanotechnology, scientists report that they have mapped out the basic chemistry and structure of what happens inside a memristor during its electrical operation."

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what about F-RAM? by kubitus · 2011-05-16 00:16 · Score: 1

Ti introduced their new line of uControllers with F-RAM, saying it is 120 times faster than Flash.
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except for real fast needs they have some k S-RAM.
as they are also using licensed technology like Fujitsu, we can expect more of this to come - maybe not yet for the PC!
1. Re:what about F-RAM? by vlm · 2011-05-16 01:00 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  The only real difference between FRAM and memristors, is FRAM has been licensing and shipping COTS product for over a decade, and memristors are a vaporware product from extremely deep pockets trying to bite a piece off that (admittedly very tiny) market by skating as close as possible to existing patents / copyrights / trademarks without actually being sued out of existence. Its kind of like asking what is the technical difference between a "turbo-" marketed product vs a "i-" marketed product.
  Both are basically microscopic core memories. Magnetic field hysteresis, measure magnetic state by trying to force to a given state and seeing how much power it takes, none means its already that state and a bunch means it was the other state.
  There are other theoretical uses for memristors. The killer is both devices are current mode devices, which means they'll almost certainly never be power-competitive with voltage mode devices. The other killer is they are not silicon, so that means scrap all the existing fabs and start over. Plus virtually everything out there is silicon based, so it'll be interesting seeing the hybrid devices. And the fourth killer is that memristor/fram technology is advancing, but mass produced silicon dram is also advancing, in fact for a decade or so has been advancing faster, making "modern core memory" ever less interesting.
  On the other hand, depending on their temperature handling properties, a memristor based CPU that glows dull red with heat might be OK, don't know. I do know that off the shelf silicon for a variety of reasons doesn't "like" working above a couple hundred degrees, but memristors might not have the same limitations.
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
2. Re:what about F-RAM? by cats-paw · 2011-05-16 03:05 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  The killer is both devices are current mode devices, which means they'll almost certainly never be power-competitive with voltage mode devices
  you have no way of knowing that at this point in time. it doesn't matter that it's a current operated device , it's power that counts.
  if it takes 1nA @ 1V to enable/disable a memrister then a billion of them will cost you a watt. So what exactly would be the problem ? Based on my understanding of the physics I think it's completely possible that a memrister could be power consumption competitive with standard technologies.
  However your point about the fact that it can't be fabricated using silicon-based technology is a good one, but the memrister seems to me to be simpler to fabricate than a FRAM cell, so that may end up being a wash.
  Generally speaking I expect much of the PR today to be vaporware promoting, but the memrister is too new at this point. There might yet be something there.
  
  --
  Absolute statements are never true
3. Re:what about F-RAM? by Pinky's+Brain · 2011-05-16 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  The titanium dioxide material still seems to represent a significant advance from PZT even if the operating principles are the same.
4. Re:what about F-RAM? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-16 04:03 · Score: 1
  
  Memory? What are you talking about? FRAM makes oil filters MORAN.
5. Re:what about F-RAM? by AdamHaun · 2011-05-16 06:25 · Score: 2
  
  The killer is both devices are current mode devices, which means they'll almost certainly never be power-competitive with voltage mode devices.
  Are there any voltage mode devices anymore? Flash and DRAM are current mode, and my understanding is that even SRAM uses current mode sensing. I don't work in the FRAM group (I'm a flash guy), but TI's FRAM MCUs are supposed to be super low-power.
  CMOS processes always have to be modified to support nonvolatile memory. Not sure what extra steps memristors would need but I doubt it would involve throwing out all existing equipment -- more like adding one or two things.
  
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6. Re:what about F-RAM? by ChrisMaple · 2011-05-16 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  If by current mode you mean that it requires, like a tunnel diode, current to be running at all times to maintain a logic state, that is indeed a strong disincentive for many uses.
  
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7. Re:what about F-RAM? by thegarbz · 2011-05-16 19:36 · Score: 1
  
  Except memristors aren't vapourware. Memristors both theoretically exist, have been built in a usable form, and are continuously being improved to the point where they may become useful as the 4th fundamental passive electronic device.
  By saying they are vapourware you're saying that everything was once vapourware which is a complete bastardisation of the term. Memristors like graphine and nanotubes are areas of research which are constantly expanding and developing and have both funding and a serious chance of making a difference in their respective markets.
powers of ten by necro81 · 2011-05-16 00:18 · Score: 3, Informative

FTFA:

HP's latest breakthrough was to use highly focused X-rays to pinpoint a channel, just 100 nanometers wide, where the resistance switching takes place. A nanometer is about a millionth of a centimeter.
[smacks forehead and groans]

If by "about" you mean "about ten times smaller than".
1. Re:powers of ten by xMrFishx · 2011-05-16 00:22 · Score: 2
  
  I hate centimetres. They make everything really annoying. All hail engineering notation.
2. Re:powers of ten by jez9999 · 2011-05-16 00:22 · Score: 2
  
  The real WTF is 'about'. No, it's EXACTLY that. You're too used to your vague imperial rounding. ;-)
  
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  == Jez ==
  Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
3. Re:powers of ten by stranger_to_himself · 2011-05-16 00:28 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Much better article summarising this for the lay person (ie begins by explaining what memresitors are).
  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13392857
4. Re:powers of ten by Dunbal · 2011-05-16 00:28 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Er no, a nanometer is a BILLIONTH of a meter, which would make it a 1,000,000,000/100th (a ten millionth) of a centimeter. The guy who wrote TFA somehow thinks a centimeter is a thousandth of a meter. Funny how cent comes from the latin centum meaning 1/100th (which is why there are 100 cents in a dollar, for example), and milli means thousandth, and still people who write "sciency" articles manage to screw them up. THE METRIC SYSTEM IS NOT HARD, PEOPLE.
  
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  Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
5. Re:powers of ten by tepples · 2011-05-16 01:08 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  THE METRIC SYSTEM IS NOT HARD, PEOPLE.
  Then why is it so dang hard for Americans to switch from inches and pounds?
6. Re:powers of ten by PhilHibbs · 2011-05-16 01:30 · Score: 1
  
  It's only one order of magnitude. "A centimeter" is something small that everyone can get their head around. "A millionth" is also something that's easy to take in. So he writes, "about a millionth of a centimeter", and he's right. To the general public, it doesn't matter if that's the correct size or if it's actually ten times smaller than that, "about a millionth of a centimeter" is just a way of saying "really, really, really small" in terms that everyone can grasp. "A billionth of a meter", "one ten millionth of a centimeter", and "a millionth of a millimeter" are less easy to grasp.
7. Re:powers of ten by korgitser · 2011-05-16 01:43 · Score: 2
  
  Then why is it so dang hard for Americans to switch from inches and pounds?
  From Wikipedia: Inertia is the resistance of any [physical object] to a change in its state of motion or rest, or the tendency of [an object] to resist any change in its motion. It is proportional to an object's mass.
  
  --
  FCKGW 09F9 42
8. Re:powers of ten by Bengie · 2011-05-16 02:04 · Score: 1
  
  Nearly all devices and recipes are in the english system over here. We have no relation to the metric system. When doing math, I convert to metric, do the math, then convert back because it's easier. But when someone says something is 30c, I have no idea if that's hot or cold.
  Not to mention how many hand-written recipes are in english. Who is going to go back through every note written by their relatives/friends/etc and convert it all to metric. To be effective, you would have to convert every oven/book/measuring-device/etc all at the same time.
  People complained about the dTV transition because their 60 year old TVs no longer worked, even though everyone in the USA got 2 free vouchers for converter boxes. This would be much much worse.
9. Re:powers of ten by tepples · 2011-05-16 02:07 · Score: 1
  
  Who is going to go back through every note written by their relatives/friends/etc and convert it all to metric.
  If people in other countries could, including people in other English-speaking countries, why can't Americans?
10. Re:powers of ten by glebovitz · 2011-05-16 02:10 · Score: 1
  
  Then why is it so dang hard for Americans to switch from inches and pounds?
  Why do we spell favorite, behavior, color differently? Because we can. Does anyone really care?
11. Re:powers of ten by CronoCloud · 2011-05-16 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  Actually we did...back in Lincoln's time. And our current Inch/pound standards are mathematically derived from the meter/kilogram ones. It's just the inertia of the citizenry and in part...they still blame Jimmy Carter for the metric system..even though it's been official here for ages. (The carter administration heavily promoted metricization to bring us into modernity....the Reagan dopes put an end to that)
12. Re:powers of ten by _0xd0ad · 2011-05-16 02:25 · Score: 2
  
  But when someone says something is 30c, I have no idea if that's hot or cold.
  Double it and add 30; that gets you close enough for most normal temperatures.
  0C = about 30F (32F, to be exact)
  20C = about 70F (68F)
  40C = about 110F (104F)
13. Re:powers of ten by DarkOx · 2011-05-16 03:41 · Score: 1
  
  You know what though. We have a huge investment in customary system tooling and you know what the metric system sucks every bit as hard, in the modern world. People who need to do lots of conversions between our customary units learn how and they learn good rules of thumb and math tricks to do so, its no big deal. Nobody does arithmetic by pen and paper any more; its either simple enough to do in your head or its reach for a calculator or computer; many people carry a phone all the time with these features anyway.
  A base 10 system has just about as many problems for a computer as our customary units have. So there is no real value in converting. If anything we should create a base 2, system switch to that and then make everyone else follow.
  
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  Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
14. Re:powers of ten by partyguerrilla · 2011-05-16 04:13 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is the system itself, not the base. Imperial does not use a base, and its units don't relate to each other in any significant way. I find it hard to believe someone is still purposefully oblivious enough to sidetrack like hell and defend the imperial system with semantics.
15. Re:powers of ten by Surt · 2011-05-16 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  Then why is it so dang hard for Americans to switch from inches and pounds?
  Why do we spell favorite, behavior, color differently? Because we can. Does anyone really care?
  http://articles.cnn.com/1999-09-30/tech/9909_30_mars.metric.02_1_climate-orbiter-spacecraft-team-metric-system?_s=PM:TECH
  How about the 125 people who could have been millionaires instead of throwing away money on an orbiter that was destroyed thanks to our non-conversion to metric.
  
  --
  "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
16. Re:powers of ten by doug · 2011-05-16 05:06 · Score: 1
  
  It isn't that I can't use metric. It is that I don't want to use metric. I am reasonably comfortable using metric with no (or just minimal) conversions to Imperial units. I know the two systems well enough, and I know which system I prefer.
  The bit I've never gotten is why those who use metric assume that we don't because we are too stupid to do so. It really comes off as being needy and lacking in self confidence. Since there is someone who made a choice different than you, you collectively feel some need to insult and claim superiority. Ooh. Using metric makes a better person. Pathetic, really. Why do you care which system we use?
  ob jackass comment: We should have forced Europe to convert to Imperial in 1945. It would have meant that I wouldn't have had to listen to so many pro-metric wankers.
17. Re:powers of ten by ChrisMaple · 2011-05-16 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  latin centum meaning 1/100th
  Wrong! Centum means 100. That's why percent means "per 100".
  
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  Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
18. Re:powers of ten by ChrisMaple · 2011-05-16 07:00 · Score: 1
  
  That's why we need measurement units that are easy to understand. Small atoms are about one Angstrom, 10^-10 meter. The next convenient unit is a hair's diameter, about 25*10^-6 meter (1 American mil).
  Henceforth, the units for linear small measurements in the popular press should be Angstroms and hairs.
  
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19. Re:powers of ten by mattack2 · 2011-05-16 08:48 · Score: 1
  
  People complained about the dTV transition because their 60 year old TVs no longer worked, even though everyone in the USA got 2 free vouchers for converter boxes.
  No, we got $40 rebate coupons. Also, it wasn't everyone in the USA. At least according to the Wikipedia page, it "would only supply half the 73 million analog TVs not using a pay service", not everyone in the USA.
  (I let mine lapse, twice, since there weren't any of the converter boxes around here for approximately the coupon price.)
20. Re:powers of ten by tepples · 2011-05-17 00:50 · Score: 1
  
  And inertia is measured in kilograms. It's also measured in slugs (which weigh about 32 pounds on earth), but the American public is probably more familiar with the kilo than the slug.
Link to original article by zrbyte · 2011-05-16 00:19 · Score: 3, Informative

Here's a link (paywall) to the research paper and a free preprint, if anyone cares to read. These *** news sites are never able to publish a link to the original paper.
1. Re:Link to original article by vlm · 2011-05-16 00:43 · Score: 2
  
  These *** news sites are never able to publish a link to the original paper.
  Then we wouldn't need the news sites, (sarcasm tag) unless the reader wants real value added like "A nanometer is about a millionth of a centimeter." (/sarcasm tag)
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Nano, Ju-Ju, and Voodoo by retroworks · 2011-05-16 00:39 · Score: 1

What I find amazing, according to the article, is that the breakthrough is understanding why it works. In nano engineering, they are making things so small that they themselves have to observe what the creature does and then try to discover what they have appeared to have discovered.

--
Gently reply
1. Re:Nano, Ju-Ju, and Voodoo by elsurexiste · 2011-05-16 00:53 · Score: 1
  
  So that's the piece of news? I remember hearing about HP's memristors since 2007/8, and was intrigued by this reporting...
  
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Re:8 Cups a Day by Calydor · 2011-05-16 00:42 · Score: 1

Wow, that's the equivalent of 16 girls!

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That's all well and good, but... by jcr · 2011-05-16 01:25 · Score: 1

Someone wake me up when I can get a non-volatile petabyte storage device that operates at today's DRAM speeds. Also, I want it to sell for under a hundred bucks, draw less than a watt of power in use, and fit in a one-centimeter cube.
-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
1. Re:That's all well and good, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-16 04:24 · Score: 1
  
  No, we'll just leave you asleep since none of us particularly care about satisfying your desires.
Article misses the point.... by OwenTheContrarian · 2011-05-16 02:03 · Score: 1

Memristors are most interesting not because of their ability to store data after power is removed, but for their ability to store any value between one and zero (on - no resistance, and off - no current). The non-volatile nature of the circuit will probably lead to early commercialization, but the really cool stuff will happen when people like Stanford's Professor Boahen get their hands on these things. The ability to store data in a non-discrete way will surely help to speed the development of processors that are very efficient by emulating biological methods of processing data. I have been following the development of memristors with great interest, and I would like to be the ten-millionth person to hail the imminent invention of our AI Overlords!
Porque se deletrean "favorito" y "color" by tepples · 2011-05-16 02:37 · Score: 1

Why do we spell favorite, behavior, color differently?
Commonwealth English borrowed the -our spellings from French because France is across the channel from England. The United States, on the other hand, borders Mexico, which spells favorite "favorito" and color "color"; American English then analogized "behavior" from the other two because Spanish uses a different word ("comportamiento", meaning "comportment") for the concept.
Re:From the highly generalized article by UnknowingFool · 2011-05-16 04:07 · Score: 1

From what I understand, the memristor was theorized long ago and not by HP. The first use of the term was in 1960 by Bernard Widrow and the theory behind it was proposed by Leornard Chua in 1971. It is supposed to be the 4th fundamental basic circuit component with the resistor, capacitor, and inductor. To your point, the functionality of the memristor has been accomplished using the other three. The theoretical advantage of a memristor is that being a basic component, it should require less space and complexity to build in an IC.

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Re:HP tech? by partyguerrilla · 2011-05-16 04:20 · Score: 1

4) be "supported", if that's the right word, by a bunch of illiterate indians and

BROTIP: Just because they speak a different language, or an accent different to your pure-inbred Iowan, it doesn't mean they're illiterate.
Global capitalists at that by tepples · 2011-05-17 00:48 · Score: 1

Anonymous Coward wrote:

There is no viable economic drive to switch.
Other than making it easier to use less expensive parts produced in low-cost-of-living foreign countries. We are global capitalists, remember?