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Ultramobile PC To Make a Comeback?
jfruhlinger writes "Remember the Oqo and other 'ultra-mobile PCs' — full-fledged Windows machines in a cell phone form factor, pushed without success in the early-to-mid '00s? Well, Japan's NTT DoCoMo thinks that they could still catch on, making plans for a Windows 7 computer with a 4-inch, 1024-by-600 screen."
I suppose due to the extra battery needed for Atom. :)
http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/arm-posts-cortex-a9-vs-atom-performance-video-intel-should-be-worried-2010016/
http://netbooked.net/images/sized/images/uploads/articles/arm-vs-atom2-600x217.jpg
The device is made by Fujitsu and not NTT. Can you correct the brand?
and it's the android phone in my pocket. It does everything that I'd ever want to do on a device with a 4" screen. For everything else, I have a laptop that has a full size keyboard.
No, can't say that I do.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
What was old...
The iPad seems to make sense to those that carry a briefcase, purse or man-purse. But I find that form factor burdensome. I wouldn't mind have a full-fledged computer that I could stick in my pocket. Android, WMP7, and iPhones come close, but miss some important functionality; however, those may be addressed much quicker than another form-factor catching on.
If I had a few million to VC away, I might take a shot on this.
what niche would this fill that isnt already handled by current smartphones, tablets or IMT devices?
I considered buying a Nokia N810 once upon a time, but I went with something from Archos instead, because i only needed web browsing and multimedia. This was a time before iDevices or Android devices became a PC in your pocket.
A tiny computer that runs software designed for a much larger screen will be useful to a limited number of people. For most Android, IOS, WebOS, and maybe WP7 would all be a better OS in that environment.
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Hey guise, I found a picture! It runs Debian Linux!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Nokia_N900-1.jpg/788px-Nokia_N900-1.jpg
All rites reversed 2010
its much better than the old standard, but lets be realistic, its still pretty kludgey with a mouse and a giant screen, I cant imagine how poorly it would do on such a tiny interface with that high of a resolution
I can see no reason why a hardware manufacturer would put so much effort into what, in this past decade, has proven a complete failure: putting a desktop OS into a mobile form factor.
Given that Android source exists, why would a mobile device manufacturer even consider a non-free, licensed OS which has proved unsuccessful so far? Perhaps it's because of Microsoft's patent warchest (and their willingness to use it)?
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Email, and most other forms of communication can be handled by a smartphone. With my iPhone i can make a VPN connection to my work, and launch an RDP client to do work straight from my phone, its not the most fluid way of getting stuff done, but an emergency password reset, or something along those lines is accomplished easily enough.
It is better to be the hammer than the anvil.
a hand held device that has a full keyboard and runs Linux. This way, I could install a screen reader like Speakup on the thing and have an accessible portable computing device.
Some special companies do make devices like this for disabled people, but they seem to think we exist to be exploited and they charge upwards of $800 for them.
I'm not an idiot: I know something like this could be built on an ARM architecture with 128 megs of RAM for around $150 at most. Perhaps I should start doing this and selling them for $175.
Does it also include a pop-out magnifying glass? With all the latest phones be released with such as a small screen to resolution ratio, there comes a point where it's just too painful to read the text unless sitting absolutely still. Will someone please think of the eyes for once? They do have a limitations.
Life is not for the lazy.
I mean, it's from Japan, right? It's gotta turn into a robot, or some kind of odd anime device that does indescribably naughty thing to girls in sailor uniforms.
It will be a flop just like the SONY VAIO UX.
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Until hardware designers accept the fact that so much software out there expects a vertical screen size of at least 768 pixels, these gadgets won't find mainstream acceptance.
I own one and when I corporate traveled it was my constant companion.
The most significant advantage is that the physically small and compact machine that runs your full desktop.
Plug it into the docking station and...abracadabra... you have full size monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
Travel without the docking station? You can still use the tiny dongle to attach to ethernet and VGA while using the USB keyboard mouse.
Battery life SMOKES most smartphones I have owned since 2007.
I can't say it applies to all Ultras, but I still use my Fujistu for the occasional travel.
For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
If I want a PC in my pocket I want one that runs a free OS, just in case I feel the need to meddle with and "improve" it... And a UI that is designed for that size such as Maemo or Meego. Might be an interesting product if there are drivers for Linux.
A computer that could be plugged into a more powerful computer, where it would either use the more powerful comuter's resources or just the more powerful computer's display and input features.
That would be very cool.
Long live the Palm Treo... I still use the old Palm Treo 700wx (Windows OS) and with it, I can RDP, telnet, ssh to my servers at work. It does everything else... if you can tolerate the crappy browser. Have not tried the newer ones or the new Windows mobile OS: I do hope there are still good net utils available in the new Windows mobile. They do need to bring these small windows machines back.
Making a 'comeback'? You keep using that word, but I am not sure it means what you think it means.
Seriously, if almost nobody ever bought an 'ultramobile' computer, and if it was a flop ... this isn't a comeback, this is a second attempt at becoming something people care about.
And, as lots of people have pointed out already ... it sounds an awful lot like current smartphones.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Maybe the obscurity of these past devices is the reason that this one could potentially flop. Or, maybe people just don't like using PCs with 4 inch screens.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
This story brought to you by the Microsoft marketing shills. You can sense their fear and desperation as they cling onto the "Windows also works on small devices" propaganda.
However, the fact that this is posted on /. is the real problem here. If I wanted useless uninteresting news, I would go to digg.
Low power compared to a regular x86 chip, sure. Low power compared to a chip built from the bottom up to give as much power/watt as possible? No way.
One argument says
It's Windows. Therefore we MUST Charge the same as we do for the X86 version
On the otherhand
It's Windows but we have to compete with OS's that are essentially given away. (Android & iOS) So we have to give it away.
If the ydid that and for some really strange reason it took off then the MS share price would plummet like a stone. In an instant one of their cash cows has gone.
Cue throwing of chairs in Redmond.
I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
I use my original e-pc a great deal, with the default Xandros OS. It's worth having that small computer, they are useful when you need one but can't carry a full laptop, or when you want one for the fun factor ... Do they do it with NVIDIA?
The purpose of existence is to make money.
It's a tablet. It's a phone. It's something in between. Meh.
Cut to the chase and offer custom sizes.
The obvious "why not", is that you can't just take a knife and slice some real estate off a full sized screen. You'd have to source screens in multiple sizes, possibly from different vendors.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
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Take the skinheads bowling, take them bowling.
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Some people say that bowling alleys all look the same
There's not a line that goes here that rhymes with same
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MS PUMPS MILLIONS into crap OEM efforts like this.
It's like pouring gasoline onto a pile of wet, green leaves.
There's always a LOT of smoke - and never any fire. Remember the Samsung and HP tablet computers?
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
The long battery life is if you are running Symbian. Running Windows goes down to just 2 hours. My Linux (maemo) phone runs for 1-2 days, its interface is meant for touchscreens and even includes a qwerty keyboard.
Many people said "An iPad is just a big iPod touch" and that's technically correct. Also, it is technically correct to say "A swimming pool is just a big bathtub." What some people don't realize is that even if two things are identical in all ways except size, the difference in size alone can make quite a difference in what is possible. You can't swim laps in a bathtub, and you can't deliver the full experience of an app like Pages on a device with a screen that's smaller than a business card.
Similarly, full-blown Windows just does not work all that well on tiny screens. Period. Are there times when it might be useful to have a bog-standard Windows PC in your pocket? Absolutely. Is that a common need? No. Is it a big market? No. It wasn't one a decade ago, and it really isn't one now, not with all the new competition from modern smartphones and touchable tablets.
So, to answer the article's question, No, the UMPC is NOT about to make a comeback. And that title presumes it was ever "here" to begin with.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
If you put a fresnel lens and a keyboard on it, you could set up a "Brazil" style office.
If I could "dock" it and use it like a laptop for work, I'd buy something like that. Though not with Windows. An iPhone with full OS X, more RAM, decent storage (~100GB would be fine), and DVI/HDMI out would rock. Otherwise, there's no point in running a full desktop OS on a phone. Androids and iPhones are doing just fine.
A computer that could be plugged into a more powerful computer, where it would either use the more powerful comuter's resources or just the more powerful computer's display and input features.
That would be very cool.
Apple did something similar to your idea, called the PowerBook Duo and Duo Dock. The Duo Dock added NuBUS expansion slots, FPU processor, VRAM for larger resolutions, ethernet, and additional serial ports and ADB ports. It turned the laptop into a full fledged desktop computer.
I've still got a Zaurus although I haven't used it in a while. It is a great little machine and the transflective LCD is the best screen besides e-ink for use outdoors.
It isn't a machine for running Windows though. Who would want to run Windows on a machine that small?
It's also a bit funny that the Zaurus applications still seem as fast and responsive as Android apps on a Galaxy S. The graphics aren't fancy but the CPU speed and flash speed seem just as good. Has there really been no improvement in the last 7 years? :-)
Windows since 3.x has a setting to change the display's effective pixel density (DPI). This would normally be set lower than the actual DPI because a phone is held roughly twice as close to the face as a desktop PC monitor. As long as you stick to those applications that respect system DPI, there shouldn't be too much of a problem with this "retina display".
I didn't think Japanese had ever given up on these kinds of PCs. Sony kept making Windows tablets for quite a while after they had given up on the US market. In fact, I think they probably have never stopped making them.
I have an old Sony tablet, running XP, which was released back in 2004. It was sitting around at my old company several years ago so I got it for free. I certainly wouldn't have paid the $1,000+ the thing cost when new.
People seriously underestimate the utility of a full-fledged PC in such a compact form factor. I've taken it overseas with me and have done work on it. At 1ghz it's performance isn't half bad, although battery life is poor. Still, I thought it was awesome, sitting on a subway in Asia, browsing the web long before the iPad was a gleam in anyone's eye.
The real problem with the device was that the concept was ahead of it's time. Windows wasn't designed with touchscreens in mind and Sony didn't have the foresight to develop a custom UI. The big complaint by everyone who saw the thing was how tiny type was. And the touchscreen wasn't very good being limited by the technology of the time. It made typing on screen a hassle, and the separate keyboard was a hassle to use anywhere I didn't have a table available. With subsequent models Sony seemed obsessed with finding ways to integrate a physical keyboard as opposed to actually improving the GUI.
A lot of the limitations of those early tablets will surely be addressed with these new devices. But then a fundamental problem with the Japanese is that while they're great at hardware they're awful at software development. And generally their user interfaces are terrible.
The limitations of that tablet prevented me from truly exploiting it as a mobile device. However, the fact that it's a full-fledged PC means it continues to come in handy. I use it with diagnostics software on my car.
I'm still eagerly awaiting a good tablet that runs a standard OS like Windows.
Oh come on. Haven't we learned anything from the horrible resolution debacle that NetBook manufacturers imposed on us by introducing yet another screen resolution? Making screens that are not at least "standard" (1024x768) relegates many programs to either a crippled status or simply makes them extremely inconvenient to use. Many dialog boxes extend beyond a 600 pixel resolution. Pretty much everything is formatted to display properly in at least a 768 vertical resolution. Or are they trying to ride on the coattails of the mobile phone industry?
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
It could possibly serve as a business person's primary PC upon which the employee simply connect this device up to larger peripherals when in the office and simply uses it as a hand held device on the go.
They'll need to have a cell phone and a computer anyway so why use this when you could either have a laptop or a desktop at work and use your cell phone on the go? This idea provides lots of limitations and design compromises without any significant advantages over what is already available. There might be a few teeny tiny niche markets for this sort of device but frankly I don't see much point to it. If I must run Windows, a netbook is pretty damn portable and can be plugged into a larger monitor/keyboard. I actually do that and it works great but is still pretty usable when I'm carrying it. I can't really see a Windows machine with a 4 inch screen improving on what I can do with my smartphone and netbook.
A computer that could be plugged into a more powerful computer, where it would either use the more powerful comuter's resources or just the more powerful computer's display and input features.
Why not just use a more powerful computer to begin with? To work you would need bigger displays available in every location you plan to visit which just isn't likely to happen. Want to work from the local coffee shop? A laptop immediately becomes a better option. You probably are already carrying a smartphone anyway so why carry a redundant compact device that can't make calls?
I can already plug my netbook into a much higher resolution screen and connect a keyboard and mouse. If I need real horsepower of a genuinely powerful desktop machine I'm not going to waste time (and additional $) with some bizarre quasi-mobile form factor. I just can't see this sort of device being an improvement over what is already available for anybody,
That would be very cool.
It just sounds cool. In reality it would be fairly limiting with little benefit over existing technology for all but a very few people.
Good luck marketing that! It's a "Windows 7 Phone" not a "Windows Phone 7 phone".
Cut to the chase and offer custom sizes.
Costs too much for what is a niche product to begin with. Every option that is offered costs extra to produce and we're not talking small amounts of money either. Part of the reason Apple is able to be so profitable is because they offer relatively few variations and so don't incur the manufacturing, testing, support, logistics and marketing costs.
They don't need to have both if one device really will serve both needs.
You left out the word "well". It needs to serve both needs well. My smartphone already is (theoretically) capable of pretty much everything this device could do AND it makes phone calls. In time your phone probably will be able to plug into a much larger monitor. Furthermore Windows was very much NOT designed to be used on a 4 inch screen. I've got really good eyesight and can't imaging doing anything productive on it that my smartphone can't already do.
The iPods already have a prescident for this. There's a sort of "tablet" shell that you can buy for an iPod that will give it a bigger tablet-like screen.
Even taking your word for it I have never seen on in person or know of anyone who has such a device. I can't even think of a reason why anyone would want an oversized iPod. I wanted that sort of a thing I'd just buy an iPad which has the larger screen and does more besides.
We are already carrying around more "smarts" in our phones than we used to have on our overpowered PCs.
Which is why things are converging to the phone and not to the PC.
Nevertheless, the idea of physically carrying all of your data and associated programs with you in a compact format that you can access anywhere is a very appealing idea.
Agreed but we already have that or something heading quickly in that direction with smartphones. Just being mobile isn't enough. I can carry all my applications on a USB flash drive but that doesn't make them especially useful. I had a Nokia "smartphone" (an E70) that theoretically could do almost everything an iPhone could do but the interface was so bad that it was basically useless for any real work. The interface matters. Smartphones are going to continue to get more powerful and should serve exactly the purpose you outline above presuming they don't already.
Oh wait, it's Windows. Windows is the opposite of hip. Who is the target market for this again?
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Microsoft pushed the UMPC as well as Tablets in the early 00's so they could sell Windows licenses. The only reason they are pushing it again is so they can sell Windows licenses. Windows Phone/Mobile has always been a large flop and nobody wants to use it. There are now devices out between 4-8" that do what I want from a computer that size and they're called cell-phones now. There are devices between 7" and 12" that do what I want from a computer that size and they're called tablets now. Anything larger is a (portable) computer and does what I expect from a device that size. I do not WANT to run a desktop UI on a 4-8" screen and I do not WANT to run Office or any other menu-driven software on anything less than 13". If I need to take notes, which I do on a tablet, I don't need Office's UI getting in the way.
Anything less than 13" is not for media creation but consumption and small, frequent inputs. Microsoft and Adobe is in the media creation business and has never gotten a decent hold of the (mobile) media consumption business (whether it be the MSN Network, Flash, Office, Sharepoint or Photoshop).
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And data entry gloves.
Call me when I can wear it on my hip, see 3200x1600 resolution, and "wiggle my fingers" to type. I.e., it reads my gestures.
And when it has 16 hours of life, at least.
--PeterM
They're just putting the thing in their lineup.It's not like they are shelling out to produce the thing.
It is almost like George Romero is in charge of hardware product planning at Fujitsu what with these zombie concepts shambling on long after they should be dead and buried.
It's not a PC unless it has a floppy drive.
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