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Are Third-Party Android Vendors Violating the GPL?
jfruhlinger writes "Google's refusal to not release Honeycomb source code is kosher because the code in question is released under the Apache license. But the kernel at the heart of Android is GPL'd, which means that code must be released. Google has actually been a good citizen in this regard — but many third-party Android vendors, not so much. While Asus has released their code, there are a host of companies that seem to have not done so, and Matthew Garrett is maintaining a list."
So wtf is your point? That your angsty nerdrage cannot be contained by a mere button-down shirt?
GPL violations occur from MANY companies, not just those using Android.
Dude, you're not making any sense. I assume you mean refusal to release...?
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
What the fuck does that even mean?
"Google's refusal to not release Honeycomb source code is kosher "
Look, its bad enough they have to throw in these long ass licenses (GPL/MIT/Apache etc).
Now they have rabbis standing by? Are you kidding me?
Fact 1: GPL requires source code to be released.
Fact 2: License does not specify when it has to be released.
Reaction: ZOMFG, they're violating the license! Raise the pitch forks and aaaaah. Burn them at the stake! Open source means xyzzy, and stuff, and and and... it's just wrong
Rational Resolution: Update the license to have a reasonable time constraint.
Irrational Resolution: Google is evil and must be punished.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled flamefest, already in progress.....
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Seriously. Every day there is story about some new Android problems. Malware, GPL violations, rooted phones being blocked, Google not releasing the source code for new versions, people pirating apps so developing apps is useless, hardware fragmentation, phones saving location data and leaking all of your stuff to Google. Seriously just do a search for "android" on slashdot. Every freaking day something.
Well it is the biggest smartphone platform in the world. iOS is a close second and naturally there are always stories about it too, the arbitrary app approval process, changing app guidelines, security issues, phones saving location data, hardware issues (odd since they maintain so few different configurations).
"Google's refusal to not release Honeycomb source..."
I know that you believe you understand what you think you wrote, but I'm not sure you realize that what you wrote is not what you meant.
You sound like you must be really scared of this internet thing.
Google has explicitly made decisions to minimize the presence of open source (rather, copyleft) software in the purview of device vendors that utilize Android. Only a handful of bits (kernel, bluez, couple others) are actually GPL'd; everything else is Apache and doesn't need to be released.
I can see some companies just assuming they don't need to do anything at all (or like various vendors, they sit around and don't release the source for weeks.) Google certainly doesn't encourage openness and cooperation from their partners, let alone from random companies that grab the sources from the AOSP.
There's a rash of game emulators based on GPL code that is for sale in the andoid market. I actually purchased one "nesnoid" but later while I was browsing around for SNES emu's I found SNES9X for android.
The description for it on the market said, "DON'T PAY ANY OF THESE CLOWNS FOR SELLING YOU GPL CODE!"
It just doesn't happen with kernels or OS components, it happens ALOT with applications. Another example I found was a WEP cracker. There was one (name escapes me atm) for $10 advertising "GET FREE WIFI ANYWHERE", while WEP cracker stated "These guys are ripping you off, their code is based on ngcrack and a few other OSS libraries and they're not giving you the source"
I understand that the GPL allows some recoup of costs for development and distribution, but at all times the source must be available for free. I'm sure THAT list of companies is much larger than the one Matthew lists on his page.
A better question: why are you phrasing it as a question? Some android manufacturers are violating the Linux GPL and nobody really cares. Hoo-ray, linux "won", whatever that means.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
I just hear grumpy old man talk. You could have saved all of us time by just saying "I'm too old for this shit, I need something that works so I got an iPhone."
... but is he checking it twice?
Are Third-Party Android Vendors Violating the GPL?
Gee, I don't know, are they?
Is this what qualifies as "journalism" in 2011?
Can you image the New York Times headline of July 21, 1969: Did Americans just land on the Moon?
Oh, it appears that someone is keeping a list of Android GPL violations, so the answer is yes.
This may be a little premature, but you sound more than a bit like an astroturfer with anonymous talk like that. No offense or anything.
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
Ignore the haters. I, and many others, concur. Android is a deathtrap of viruses, harvesting, trojans and misinformation. Fear, uncertainty and doubt. The opposite of a walled garden is surely an entirely open one, and unless you go round with the hoe, the weeds will grow. Apologies for rhyming; 'cause it's true. Equip Gran with a new 'droid tablet, and watch her money slowly be sapped from her account, or give her a new iPad and watch her shop at the App Store. Super stuff - no credit card drainage, no worries about trojans, no viruses. Sorted.
Yeah, but the arguments about iOS are about how they're stopping people doing dodgy things. The arguments about Android are about how people are running amok, able to do whatever they want despite Google. Never mind which allows you your freedom - you are not the average user. Which one - iOS or Android - is the one you choose to keep pictures of your grandkids on?
If one meant, REFUSAL TO RELEASE, then maybe your crying at the party can have some looking in to. Did you get raped in the ass ?? Did you get smacked around, maybe pistol whipped? So about what are you crying?
the only good reason not to get android is because Manufacturers aren't sending out updates a quarter as fast as they should, meaning you have to root the phone to get current security updates inside of a 6 month time scale.
New google movie features means that if you want google Movie means you can't have security updates.
One would think Google should have thought of that. The primary reason to root is to get around either stupid carrier lockout restrictions, or to upgrade your phone for the latest security updates in a timely fashion.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Add to the fact the 99% percent of the users could give a shit about the problems surrounding the source code used in their phones. This issue resonates in the techie community but has little impact on which phone a person chooses.
I've never heard someone complain that source code wasn't released for Windows software.
That's because nobody provided source code to Microsoft for Windows under the GPL, dumbass.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
You could have saved us a lot of time by simply not saying that. Do you have a point to make?
I like Android but all this GPL nonsense shows how dangerous using Linux or other 'free' software can be.
That's why I prefer closed source software. Nobody need an army of anti-social nerds attacking them for using the operating system they promote.
If you don't want people to use Linux just say so. Don't encourage Linux use and then attack companies for daring to keep their intellectual property private.
I've never heard someone complain that source code wasn't released for Windows software.
Linux use is encouraged in compliance with the license agreement.
If you can't follow the GPL, then don't modify and distribute the software.
Or: Try making a profit by disregarding the license agreement on software from Apple or Microsoft ... guarantee you it will be more an "anti-social nerds" requesting that you release some source code.
Who cares...GPL is a flawed license and will likely be the downfall of open source in general. Companies are going to get gun-shy of anything that doesn't come with an expensive license that makes them feel secure. Apache and LGPL are much better options.
Google pulls malware from the market. Apple stops people from putting apps into their market because they don't like them. There is a huge difference there. As an average user, you can still do everything you need to do. Security/system updates are there for everyone. It's open sourced so people can find the issues instead of hiding under a rock hoping someone doesn't find the flaws. The average user can just plug the phone into any computer and copy the files into the phone without having to use a computer with itunes to load the picture into the phone. Go back to kneeing at the feet of your lord and master steve jobs and keep drinking the kool-aid. Don't think, just regurgitate what your master tells you.
Astroturfers typically have user names... How else are they supposed to get credit for their work.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Which one - iOS or Android - is the one you choose to keep pictures of your grandkids on?
That's obvious. Android. I want to be sure that I'll always be able to get to those pictures, and not have them under the thumb of a megalomaniacal sociopath.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I've never heard someone complain that source code wasn't released for Windows software.
Are you actually that ignorant of the subject we're discussing? Because if you are, you're in way over your head. And if you're not, you're a troll.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Malware, GPL violations, rooted phones being blocked, Google not releasing the source code for new versions, people pirating apps so developing apps is useless, hardware fragmentation, phones saving location data and leaking all of your stuff to Google.
Malware - I would assume a more open environment would give way to more malware than a walled garden for apps. If you're going to allow people to install what they want you will have malware (how many instances are design flaws and how many are end user approved I don't know). That's a pro vs con that is certainly worth considering but would ultimately come down to personal preference/needs.
GPL violations - I don't think this one is necessarily fair since for market share there aren't any alternatives that have/use the GPL to violate. One could argue it's a problem within the Android market but as pro vs con compared to other phones there's nothing that makes it a con. Certainly those involved with the code that's being used under violation should register their complaints and take legal action if necessary.
rooted phones being blocked - Android's not alone here. But Google's 'honesty' is amusing. Again, I'm not saying it's not a problem. Merely pointing out that compared to other options it's not much different.
Google not releasing the source code for new versions - Again a problem that only applies to Google because they're the only one (and those mentioned in TFA) that's expected to.
people pirating apps so developing apps is useless - Similar to the malware problem except affecting developers more where malware affects end-users. So open vs controlled and the pros and cons that come with it. Personal preference and I could go either way.
hardware fragmentation - Good and bad as with most things. Hardware fragmentation to one person is bleeding edge to another (I recognize the merits of that statement depend on a market where market fragmentation is due to technological advance vs technological control).
phones saving location data and leaking all of your stuff to Google - I don't know that I'd use the word leaking but the end result is the same.I will acknowledge that accepting any Google product probably means you should weigh the value of your privacy against it.
I think your thoughts are personally valid and valid for many but I wanted to add why others would still see Android as the 'best' choice if not the ideal one.
I like Android but all this GPL nonsense shows how dangerous using Linux or other 'free' software can be.
Lol wut?
That's why I prefer closed source software. Nobody need an army of anti-social nerds attacking them for using the operating system they promote.
Usually nerds attack users of closed sourced crap like Windows or MacOS
If you don't want people to use Linux just say so. Don't encourage Linux use and then attack companies for daring to keep their intellectual property private.
The problem is it is not their intellectual property. Due to the license its open source.
I've never heard someone complain that source code wasn't released for Windows software.
LMAO Wut?
I must be feeding a troll.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Ignore the haters. I, and many others, concur. Android is a deathtrap of viruses, harvesting, trojans and misinformation. Fear, uncertainty and doubt. The opposite of a walled garden is surely an entirely open one, and unless you go round with the hoe, the weeds will grow. Apologies for rhyming; 'cause it's true. Equip Gran with a new 'droid tablet, and watch her money slowly be sapped from her account, or give her a new iPad and watch her shop at the App Store. Super stuff - no credit card drainage, no worries about trojans, no viruses. Sorted.
Uh ... what? Honestly, why are you even in a discussion about Android if you're not a hater? Go back to your walled garden and bask in the glow of Steve. The rest of us will continue to get things done.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
You've been trolled
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
Which one - iOS or Android - is the one you choose to keep pictures of your grandkids on?
That's obvious. Android. I want to be sure that I'll always be able to get to those pictures, and not have them under the thumb of a megalomaniacal sociopath.
Right. JPEG, TIFF, UNIX - all products of a megolomaniacal sociopath. Calm down. Have some Kool Aid. Relax.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
roflmao
The funny thing about this one is how exactly it is wrong.
There is no possible way for it to be more completely backwards.
Linux computers, watercooled, photography
How do you enforce the GPL? On this scale?
Is all Android-deployed SW under the GPL?
Depending on how they are detecting root, you can always do a quick nandroid backup and then restore a non rooted firmware for the duration of your movie then just reverse the process. It is easier than it sounds and can be fairly well automated down to a sub 5 minute one-click process. The only real fly in the ointment is if they are detecting an unlocked bootloader or just the os itself. Of course, this will get razor sharp focus from very sharp hackers so expect a solution in 5...4...3...
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Just search for HTC and GPL on Google or Twitter. Need I say more?
Freetards like to shit on copyright by taking what isn't theirs to take? I say close the fucking software. Fuck the license. The license is an imaginary term that you don't need to obey. In reality you don't need to stick to it at all. Tell the EFF to go fuck themselves in their asses if they don't like it. Their ways are dead to me. It's time to rip it all down. No license should ever be followed in a truly free world.
Wait, it's distributed from the Marketplace, that means Google is violating the GPL if I give Google the "binary" .apk for my GPL'd project. I must make the source code available to whomever I have distributed to -- this is Google not anyone else.
This means that, since Google is redistributing my .apk, they are responsible for responding to requests for the GPL'd source code, NOT ME. Google can ask me for the source code, and I'll give them a copy, but since they are going to distribute the GPL'd code, the hosting of said GPL'd code for those they distribute to is Google's burden!
We've already been through this with Apple's application repository. The result was that Apple didn't want to distribute GPL'd code anymore.
The GPL allows distributors to redistribute binaries if they are unchanged, and they can point requests to the available GPL'd sources, but in my contrived example, (where I do not publish the source code publicly), Google is in violation of the GPL if they distribute my application.
Wait, hold on a minute. It's precisely the fact the Apache licence doesn't compel them to release the source that would make them "good citizens" if they did, rather than just giving it to a select few OEMs.
We were sold on Android being an open source and free alternative to iOS and the like, but unfortunately the reality is proving anything but. Part of this is Google going back on their stance on what constitutes open, but also that they haven't more rigorously enforced compliance of the GPL by their OEMs.
It's a shame they have to do this for companies other than Asus and Samsung (good GPL folk, IIRC), but companies have proved time and time again their misunderstanding of what their responsibilities are under the GPL at best, and knowingly ignoring them at worst.
Cheers, ~ Ruben
Only device makers, ie folks who ship devices are required to provide source of the kernel. As Google does not ship a device (HTC and Samsung do) the liability does not rest with them, rather the OEM.
I'll refrain from commenting on the relative knowledge of slashdotters regarding GPL...
Equip Gran with a new 'droid tablet, and watch her money slowly be sapped from her account, or give her a new iPad and watch her shop at the App Store. Super stuff - no credit card drainage, no worries about trojans, no viruses. Sorted.
Yeah you can buy from anywhere on the net and give out your credit card details and it doesn't matter who you give them to because you're using an iPad and Apple will protect you! Yay Apple! Thanks for watching over me 3
Say GarminAsus A10/A50 series, the kernel source is still unavailable.
Personally I don't think its very "kosher" not to release the source code right away. Sure, it maybe fully legal when following the very letter of the license, but whatever happened to following the intention of the license? A gentleman's agreement takes 2 gentlemen, simple as that.
And well, all Google cares for is money. I don't hold that against them, but all the nonsense around it like "do no evil" and "android brings democracy" really starts to sound very hypocrite to me.
Latest news: did you gain root access to your Android environment? Well; now you can no longer use Youtube's rental video services because Google has locked out "rooted Android devices" due to "CRM problems".
I think the licenses are the least of our problems here to be honest...
No one is encouraging companies to use linux for their devices. These companies use it because the advantages of not having to build their own OS from scratch outweigh the disadvantages of having to release their improvements to linux. Only problem is that some companies forget to play by the rules.
Also people like GPL violations don't just launch an attack on linux violators with a lawsuit. They first attempt to contact them and work with them to release the needed source changes, rarely does it ever result in a lawsuit. You only see the worse examples where companies have repeatedly ignored or refused to release the improvements they've made on GPL'd source code.
The very same thing happens in closed source code as well. Lots of companies sue other companies over using their code which hasn't be properly licensed, etc. Same thing happens there, it's mostly worked out before it ever hits a court room.
This is why there is an appearance of there being lots of GPL lawsuits but no closed source ones, because the interested parties in the GPL cases are all of us and it's news, however the closed source cases involve only two parties, the companies directly involved.
You sound like you must be really scared of this internet thing.
Nah, it's just a fad - it'll pass.
Ahh - My eye!
The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
You've been taken in by Apple's FUD.
Both the App store and Android market are curated experiences, though Apple's version is obviously a lot more restricted. They have both rules, they limit what can be submitted, and they remove things that violate those rules. Both have had problems with apps doing more than they claimed to do that resulted in apps being removed after these violations were discovered. Pretty much every story about Android malware has a corresponding iOS story if you've been paying attention. But similarly, neither platform has any *significant* issues. The recent instance of Google kill switching some apps that violated their rules were not actual Malware apps, just apps posted by a security researcher to demonstrate that people will blindly install apps that ask permission to access contacts/location/etc even though they have no legitimate reason to be doing so. They weren't actually stealing user data, just demonstrating how it could be done.
What makes Android "open" is that if you don't like Google's rules, you can make your own App store like Amazon has done or you can just sideload anything you want. It's worth noting that just as many iOS malware stories involve jailbroken phones, most of the Google Malware stories have involved side-loading because like Apple, Google *DOES* curate the Android Market to keep Malware out and, though both have let some shady pieces of software through, both companies have done a pretty good job of keeping it out. Most of the malware that has slipped through on both platforms is just a matter of people not paying any attention to the fact that the Bobble Head app they just installed for some reason requires permission to access the contact list . . .
P.S. It's funny that you mention "which platform do you want to store your pictures on' because I recently had to do tech support for a relative who was quite saddened to discover that her iOS firmware upgrade had wiped all her pictures (which included many she had taken of her new puppy when it was growing). As an iPhone user myself, I've had this same bug happen to me in the past (when i upgraded my 3gs to firmware 4.0 before I got my iphone 4). I did the firmware upgrade and the pictures were simply gone afterwards . . .
The GPL is not restrictive enough. Not only should it nail you for monetizing the code in any way, but it should also cause you to be eligible for a ruining lawsuit if you make any money at all in other spheres of your life.
and the problem, both times, was not in the iphone.
why in hell are you using the iphone as a backup solution for your important stuff?
you should have known better.
Let's see, three possible example cases:
Yup, I see your point. Closed source software is a lot safer.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
In fact most of the GPL compliant ones do not provide a workable source but just throw some code. GPL specify you need the tools and instruction to reproduce the binary.
That said, it's usually OK as we figure stuff out.
There is another side however, for example let's take Samsung. They do release the GPL stuff (after a week delay usually) for one version, for example Froyo.
Then they release important Froyo updates but the GPL code will not be updated. One could argue that the GPL code did not change, but this is not specified and in fact, it happens that it does change.
Currently for the Galaxy S II the GPL kernel source does not exactly match the latest firmware and I doubt they will ever fix that - and while it's better than some, that certainly is not compliant at all.
Ignore the haters. I, and many others, concur. Android is a deathtrap of viruses, harvesting, trojans and misinformation. Fear, uncertainty and doubt. The opposite of a walled garden is surely an entirely open one, and unless you go round with the hoe, the weeds will grow. Apologies for rhyming; 'cause it's true. Equip Gran with a new 'droid tablet, and watch her money slowly be sapped from her account, or give her a new iPad and watch her shop at the App Store. Super stuff - no credit card drainage, no worries about trojans, no viruses. Sorted.
That's very melodramatic and utterly ludicrous. You make it sound like Android is infested with malware when it's a tiny problem, probably contracted by idiots getting their apps from some dodgy Chinese app store. More fool them.
Get your apps from the standard marketplace, exercise a little common sense and you will be perfectly safe. If you don't think granny is capable of managing a smart phone, don't buy her one, or install the apps for her, or educate her on common ways that malware may masquerade as useful software.
I'd add that neither both Apple or Google could ever be safe from malware. It would be trivial to write a seemingly useful app, wait for it to gather a lot of users and then prime it with a command during its normal cloud based calls which activates its malicious behaviour.
Happy that someone is keeping a list of crappy tablets out there.
From my Understanding you don't need to keep your Source as part of the main download area. You could in theory take a mailed letter request for GPL source and then you fax over the source code and they are in compliance. Sure it doesn't follow the spirit of the GPL but it follows the words.
The part that actually gets on my nerves are the people who are rabid in enforcing the GPL are often the same people who support piracy of closed source software, or breaking into companies networks to prove some lame point. If you want people to follow your license you need to bring out an olive branch and support theirs too.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Can you provide any facts to back up your claims? The only case I had where money was sapped from my account was... iTunes. Somehow my account that hasn't been accessed in months by me suddenly had activity - note I only accessed iTunes on a OSX Box. So much for security! Apple provided me GREAT service and got it fixed up, but there's an example of some actual facts. I haven't had a single penny stolen from me for using the Android Market - of course if you setup "gran" on a chinese market and tell her not to use the official Android Market you might have a point, but then you also might be as dumb as a sack of hammers.
Way to strawman, bro. How did you go from "the pictures I had on my iPhone got deleted in the firmware upgrade due to a bug" to "using my iPhone to backup important stuff"?
Nobody with sense would keep important files on any kind of phone as a backup, android or iOS--makes no difference in that discussion. I'm just talking about the pictures I took with the phone, and therefore naturally on the phone. You do understand that phones are cameras too these days, right?
Which one - iOS or Android - is the one you choose to keep pictures of your grandkids on?
That's obvious. Android. I want to be sure that I'll always be able to get to those pictures, and not have them under the thumb of a megalomaniacal sociopath.
Right. JPEG, TIFF, UNIX - all products of a megolomaniacal sociopath. Calm down. Have some Kool Aid. Relax.
Hey, he started it. Funny though ... usually it's the Apple fanboys that get accused of drinking the Kool Aid.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Yeah, but flaming a troll is OK, in my books.
Not that my comment was the best flame, by any means.....
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......