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EFF Co-founder Faces Copyright Heavyweights At EG8
ndogg writes "EFF co-founder John Perry Barlow faced down copyright heavyweights ... on a panel he described as 'the Lions Den' discussing issues of intellectual property. He was the lone dissenting voice ... Mitterand had commented that copyright debates had grown so calm now that everyone agreed upon the ground rules."
The one who think children who download movies should have their internet rights revoked, but doesn't see anything wrong with a cineast raping a 13 year old girl ? Glad he has his priorities straight.
I think that calm of Mitterand's was the lull before the storm. Good!
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
FIGHT!
French President Nicolas Sarkozy called repeatedly for Internet regulation and more copyright protection.....
I really, really hate these guys. They are censoring our right to free expression of ideas, and hiding it behind copyright and child "protection".
Of course it's really all about control of the masses, in order to silent dissent. Last "great idea" I heard coming out of the US District of Chaos is that citizens will be required to get licenses to log on and speak their minds. Hopefully this idea dies immediately.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I suppose one reason that these roundtables are so calm are because the MAFIAA already know that no amount of dissension from the hoi poloi is going to deter them from their on-going efforts to get restrictive IP laws established across the globe. Just let the little EFF guy have his say, debate him a bit, and then instruct your minions to go sink a large cash donation/bribe into various election campaigns/politician pockets around the globe. Debates are meaningless.
I rather doubt I agree with everything Mr. Barlow said, even from the brief summary of his comments in the article I saw several statements that I might have argued with. I tend to be a moderate on this issue, neither favoring the total or near total evisceration of IP laws that some favor, nor the equally ridiculous calls from industry to expand them to the point that all content becomes immutable and unusable. Never the less, seeing this guy shake up the cozy little panel of "experts" makes me very happy. Nothing is going to change as long as the attitude that "the ground rules are all agreed on" is there. Until people realize that that there even is a another side in this debate, that there are radical content freedom people sitting opposite the radical content protection people, the middle ground can't be found.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
But his refusal of invitation was shortsighted; he can put together some decent arguments occasionally. When you get an audience to air your viewpoints you take it. If it was due to scheduling conflicts then my apologies but I do not believe that to be the case.
Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
But [Barlow] accepted the invitation even as colleagues begged him not to go and activists like Cory Doctorow turned down invitations to the event, which was seen as an industry/government cabal bent on regulating the 'Net for its own ends. ... Barlow's biggest contribution to the e-G8 may have been the reminder that this illusion of calm is only possible in a setting where one screens out the dissenting voices—and that those voices are still raging outside.
Well no wonder they don't think anything is wrong. When activists turn down invitations, they'll assume they're in the right.
Mitterand had commented that copyright debates had grown so calm now that everyone agreed upon the ground rules
It is surprisingly calm at home even when I have come back an hour later from the pub that I told my wife I would on a day when she was supposed to meet someone, as long as I stick my fingers in my ears and say "La La LA I'm not listening".
I think M Mitterand is doing the same thing.
the official eg8 site has taken down this exact section of the talk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0Nl2Xnmd5g
I'm glad John Perry Barlow had the balls to be a dissenting voice in that echo chamber, but equally disappointed that Cory Doctorow thought that his inattendance was some kind of principled stand. We need more dissenting voices in the middle of regulatory circle jerks like these.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
First-past-the-post voting systems are a parody of democracy, and that's how conservative, or more accurately fascists like Sarkozy get their "majority."
1. We're all here to represent our corporate campaign donors, not our citizens.
2. There are no other rules.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
... it has outlived it's usefulness and now is the largest impediment to innovation out there...
" 'Speech has to be free but movies cost money,' he [Jim Gianopulos of 20th Century Fox] said, adding that he hears plenty about the need for new business models but doesn't see any actual alternative business models that generate the cash to fund big-budget films."
I can't think of a big budget movie, at least recently, that was worth the budget. If this guy wants to be able to recoup his expenses and make a little profit, maybe he should start finding writers who don't need ridiculous budgets for crazy special effects with shitty stories.
"To stop the terrorists."
An illuminating comment from one of the speakers quoted in the linked article was "We do not believe that you can remove 'content' from the Internet, and if you do this, what is there left? Basically, the Internet then is a set of empty pieces and boxes.” (Bertelsmann [Worldwide Media, I presume])
The Internet is much more than just a content delivery network for the recording industry and the news media. As with many constructs, however, I fear that it is viewed by all with a subjective POV and for those media corporations, their subjective POV is focused on only their understanding of the value of the Internet. The danger inherent in this subjectivity is that very powerful interests can bring about controls and restrictions that are, from their subjective POV, very reasonable. However, these same controls and restrictions may be extremely harmful to other interests and considered unreasonable by those with a different subjective POV. Perhaps the best manner in which to argue against controls and restrictions being sought by the tunnel-visioned but powerful is to illuminate the full range of communications made possible by the Internet and to show how the proposed controls and restrictions would unreasonably have harmful effects on important aspects of that full range of communications.
A separate, but related argument, is that the business opportunities that technology brings may also be taken away by newer technology. I'm thinking specifically here of the recording industries. Prior to the invention of audio and video recording technologies, there was no business in recording and selling the playback of audio and video "works of art" - all such works had to be performed by real-life artists every time the work was "sold" to an audience. Once a means to permanently store and playback recordings of these works existed, an industry formed to take advantage of it. I suspect that this industry directly destroyed the ability of many performance artists to make a living. Now new technology makes it possibly infeasible to spend a fortune making a recording of a work of art, because that recording can "escape" the confines within which it can be sold over and over again to recoup the initial investment. If true, live performances may make a comeback as big-budget productions dwindle. Why should the recording industry receive preferential treatment in order to maintain a business model that was created by technology and has perhaps now been destroyed by technology? Why shouldn't live performers regain their importance as the sun sets on the recording industry?
It seems to me that since copyright and patent protections are created by society in order to benefit society (and don't exist as any "natural right"), there has to be an argument about the bettering of society more so under one scheme than another. Is there an argument to be made that society will be worse off without big budget motion pictures and albums from major recording studios, and hence we need to protect their business model even though these protections may wreak havoc on the free expression of ideas within society (another benefit to society, which is enhanced by rather than threatened by the Internet)?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0Nl2Xnmd5g
I can't think of a big budget movie, at least recently, that was worth the budget.
Ahh yes, it's all crap. Why would anyone watch that schlock? Blah blah blah... Of course the fact that millions of people actually enjoyed some of those big budget movies and spent actual money to see them must mean they are all idiots who have no idea what interests them personally. Good thing we have you to tell us what is worth watching.
[/sarcasm]
If this guy wants to be able to recoup his expenses and make a little profit, maybe he should start finding writers who don't need ridiculous budgets for crazy special effects with shitty stories.
Since they are recouping their expenses and making more than a little profit already, maybe they understand their business better than you do. Speaking for myself, I have no problem spending a few dollars to see a movie that interests me. Yes, the representatives from the movie houses may be selfish greedy assholes but they can't be ignored either. We just need to make sure they don't put their interests ahead of the interests of society as a whole.
They've never made a profit in Hollywood.
And if piracy is killing the industry, how come they're making record turnover?
Because piracy has negligible effect on profiting from copyrighted works.
But it's damn expensive to police. You and me foot THAT bill. Do you like paying for that?
This is probably the first time I have ever seen John Perry Barlow mentioned, certainly on Slashdot if not on the entire web, without 'lyricist for the Grateful Dead' appended on as his title.
Is the influence of The Dead diminishing? Or was it simply an oversight on the part of the Slashdot editor.
We're grateful that he's.... well, nevermind.
Calling people fascist because of their copyright stance ? Come on.
And copyright legislation is about the free expression of other's ideas. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
Besides, France's left is as pro-copyright as Sarkozy or Mitterand, easily. You see when it comes to destroying actual freedom of speech, not the "right" to download free porn, it's the left that's championing arresting people for promoting political ideas on blogs.
Nice that the self-proclaimed leader of the intellectual copyright reform movement refused to attend this. I'm sure Doctorow is wasting no time figuring out how to spin Barlow's courage and integrity into something that's his own. Cory Doctorow loves to get out in front of other people's hard work, like Lawrence Lessig's, to push his own image as a intellectual leader, when, in reality, his failure to attend is just more evidence that the man is nothing but a lightweight with a popular blog.
i ~ Celebrating Science, Cyberspace, Speculation
What dude means is without big media content, the internet is nothing. So he makes a statement that everyone can agree to, then he changes the meaning of one of the words for the rest of his argument. Terribly, terribly disingenuous.
Or, to put it in plainer terms, he's lying through his teeth. The most gifted liars are good at this -- at telling their lies bald-facedly in plain sight, and constructing their lies to rely on twisted words, getting people to agree to things that are diametrically opposed to their own best interests.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
"It seems to me that since copyright and patent protections are created by society in order to benefit society (and don't exist as any "natural right")"
A lot of people, especially conservatives, talk about the US giving up our sovereignty, violating our constitution, in order to conform to the likes of the UN. They worry that treaties will undermine rights such as the right to keep and bear arms (especially under UN gun restrictions goals). What they completely ignore is that we have already completely done this in the area of copyright.
Your view of copyright and patent perfectly matches the original intent, purpose and language of the US Constitution's Copyright Clause. It is supposed to be limited, and only a temporary grant of monopoly for the benefit of society. These other countries have a "natural right" view of copyright and thus are fundamentally incompatible with constitutional copyright in the US.
But all the treaties and laws are following their natural right view. That might be OK in thier countries, but it is blatantly unconstitutional in the United States.
How did we go from 14 years of limited rights plus a 14 year extention, to effectively unlimited terms with a vast collection of rights? Simple, by following international law instead of our own Constitution.
This is their proper name: Content Lords. Pass it on.
It's slightly better than the USUK system, in that it offer a bit more diversity of choice, but in the end it gives the same result: conservative/authoritarian types can get a parliamentary majority with less of 40% of the population voting for them, which means that they get to rule over 3/4 of the time even though they never get much more than 50% of the vote.
It is true that first-past-the-post systems suck.
Problem is France does not use first-past-the-post!
There are many ways to elect a parliament. The two most common paradigms are district based FPTP vs. party based proportional. While the French system is not strictly "_first_ past the post" (you could call it first past the second post), it is definitely, absolutely nothing like proportional.
Absolutely LOL!
Well, actually, yes, I can be a bit arrogant when faced with blithering submorons like you. Your original response was so diametrically opposed to what I meant, it's obvious you misunderstood. I mean, *still* with the whole royalty thing? It's also obvious that your brain is utterly ossified by ideology- that's why you read so much in there that didn't exist. Oh, and nice homophobic attempt at an insult, bigot. The whole "hurr hurr me imply he am gay" really doesn't fly in this century.
OK, I'm done with you. Cheer up. Christmas is approaching. :-D