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Amazon Challenges Apple With Mac App Store
CWmike writes "Amazon launched a Mac-specific application download store on Thursday that will compete with Apple's nearly five-month-old Mac App Store. The new subsection of Amazon's massive online store, dubbed 'Mac Software Downloads,' kicked off quietly Thursday. Amazon has long offered software downloads for both Windows and Mac customers, but this was the first time that the company called out its Mac-centric 'store.' The retailer, however, apparently did not want to goad Apple into another legal battle by mimicking its rival's 'App Store' moniker: The two companies are already in court over Amazon's 'Appstore for Android,' which Apple claims violates its trademark. Unlike the Mac App Store, which Apple opened in early January, Amazon's includes the popular Office for Mac line from Microsoft."
Apple's App Store provides a centralized update mechanism. Amazon's store is just a website.
What cut does Amazon take? Seems like in this situation Amazon would want to differentiate from Apple if they will have other vendors/apps not found in the Apple app store.
Despite not owning any Apple products, I could imagine them pushing a silent update to all devices that simply blocks the site in question. Or starting to sign their software cryptographically, and making sure their systems only accept valid signatures. Or any other way, actually...
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
This is doomed to failure right out of the gate. It's not blessed by Saint Jobs, so no true Apple fanboi will buy from it. If the fanbois won't use it, who will? Only heterosexual blue-collar Mac users with real jobs. AND THERE AREN'T ANY OF THOSE.
Nice flamebait. I'm a heterosexual blue-collar Mac user with a real job, as are many of my co-workers.
There are several other Mac software download sites, though they are mostly game-oriented. In any case, the only problem with Amazon's download store that I've seen is the prices aren't very good. I don't know why any of these software publisher expect me to pay the same for a download as physical media?
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Mac users have been able to download software from websites ever since the first modem became available for the Mac. This has never been a problem for Apple, so why start now? Not saying it's impossible, but IMO very unlikely.
That's like saying not to bother selling Mac software on a store shelf, either.
People will buy from this, but only if it makes sense. It has to be cheaper or better in some way than the competition.
Plus, they're already running something similar for software/games for Windows. This is probably just an extension of that and doesn't cost that much. I doubt it'll take much profit to break even.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
This is probably just an extension of that and doesn't cost that much. I doubt it'll take much profit to break even.
If anyone orders software this way, they're already making money because they don't have to take up floor space for inventory or spend money on shipping. They probably get good rates from UPS, but still if they save $3 per transaction, that can add up quickly.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
*BEEP* *BEEP*
probably because physical media is worth about 2 bucks.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Apple provoked this. Apple released a tablet and is trying to do with books what it did with music via iTunes. Google has also provoked this. Amazon is smart enough to not sit around selling paperbacks to college kids.
Nobody really thinks about Amazon as a powerhouse. They always look like the underdog. But, they are the undisputed kings of online sales. They may not really know tablets, even though the kindle is wildly successful. They may not know personal computers. But they do know online sales and they definitely know software. Between their search algorithms which are arguably the best ever based on user data and their datacenters, they have an extremely powerful base to move into the Web 3.0 space of SaaS.
They've been selling online content successfully via the kindle. They understand wireless sync, cloud, and 1-click sales. They also know how to work with publishers on par with Apple's dealings with the music industry. So, rather than bashing them as a late comer, Google and Apple had better show it a little respect. It quite possibly may be the leader in this game. And if Apple ignores their direction and momentum, like RIM ignored Apple for so long, Apple will find itself trapped in an Amazon walled garden.
If Apple is a design genius, Amazon is a sales & distribution genius. This looks to be a wonderful match up!
I8-D
I find it funny that some think Apple will feel threatened by this. The Mac App Store is a recent addition, before that the vast majority of Apple software was not purchased through Apple. Outside if Apple titles (iWork, iLife, etc.), I've only purchased 3 programs through Apple's website or Mac App Store. The rest are purchased from individual vendor's websites, or someplace like Amazon. As the Mac installed base grows, there will be more than enough sales to go around for both of these stores to exist. Especially since some of the titles on the Amazon store cannot be sold through the Mac App Store due to incompatibility with the stores limits on what the app can do (Office comes to mind).
According to some reports, Amazon has been selling these downloads for a while, but has only recently decided to create a sub-store to highlight their availability. Kudo's to them, because I didn't even know they offered downloads of Mac software! This is a big win for consumers because competition breeds better services, lower prices, and greater visibility for the platform. Most mac fanbois, especially those from the dark pre-OSX days, will applaud this as a "Good Thing TM".
Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
Despite not owning any Apple products, I could imagine them pushing a silent update to all devices that simply blocks the site in question. Or starting to sign their software cryptographically, and making sure their systems only accept valid signatures. Or any other way, actually...
That would be one way to start a myriad of lawsuits. Apple, or any other hardware/software manufacturer, can not start blocking sites willy-nilly. It would be considered a free-speech violation most likely, but particularly, in this case, anti-competitive. The Feds would be on them in a second. And talk about the bad PR. Even for iOS products, while they may make it very difficult to get 'non-Apple approved' software on the devices, there are jail-breaking methods available. I think Apple may always keep a back-door open like that, to get around any future anti-competitive, or anti-free market claims.
Despite what a lot of people seem to believe, it is 100% legal in the US for an NGO (including a private company or person) to censor speech.
When the App store first appeared, I did a quick check of software I use to see how much of it I could've found on Mac's App store. Answer: not much. Missing were Jedit, Aquamacs, Chronosync, Copywrite, TeXshop, Sibelius G7, Cyberduck, and PageSender. Some of that software is FOSS, but not all of it. And much of it I found using good ole' Google.
An alternative to the App store is a good thing - I can appreciate its convenience but also want variety and choice.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/jedit-x-standard/id405161345?mt=12
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cyberduck/id409222199?mt=12
The only hit on Amazon are books and a "Currently unavailable" G7 Kontakt Edition.
Fandroids hate facts.
Amazon not calling the new Mac software store "Mac App Store" was a legal decision not a matter of not goading Apple. While Amazon can make a very good argument that "App Store" is a generic term, there is no way that the Apple trademark for "Mac App Store" would not be upheld by the courts. You an argue either side of the first term (I think it is generic, but there are those who legitimately disagree), but I cannot see how you can argue that people would not expect the "Mac App Store" to be some place to get Macintosh Apps directly from Apple.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
It's just a disk image (DMG). The closest thing in the Linux/Windows world is the .ISO. However, unlike Windows, disk image mounting is built into the system as shipped by Apple. If you double click a DMG it just mounts. You can even create your own disk images that are encrypted (like True Crypt).
A ton of software for the Mac comes on DMGs. It makes copying install CDs rather easy on the Mac. It gets a real /dev/ device, to software it doesn't know if it's on a disk image or a real DVD.
All it sounds like is Amazon is a payment processor and providing bandwidth.
Despite not owning any Apple products, I could imagine them pushing a silent update to all devices that simply blocks the site in question. Or starting to sign their software cryptographically, and making sure their systems only accept valid signatures. Or any other way, actually...
You know what helps against that ? Wrapping your computer in tinfoil. In fact, you should save some to make yourself a hat too, just in case...
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
there are many hints in the upcoming Lion version of the OS of a further tilt towards the iOS look and feel. With iTunes offering the Mac App store and following the same model as used for iDevices it is not hard to imagine that OS X changes enough to where it requires "FOR SECURITY PURPOSES" that you use only iTunes to load software onto your Mac and "JAILBROKEN" Macs will not be eligible.
I know, they can't force people to upgrade to that version of the OS. Sure they can't directly, but indirectly they will. They will add features to the mac that people want as well as exploit the mindset that exist in the Apple community.
I think my iMac is great but I am getting closer each day to believing it is the last Mac I will ever buy.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Apple, or any other hardware/software manufacturer, can not start blocking sites willy-nilly. It would be considered a free-speech violation most likely, but particularly, in this case, anti-competitive.
Anti-competitive, quite possibly, but free speech is an idea that applies to the government only. Private companies have no requirement to allow free speech at all.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
wait, what? "free speech violation"? private entity can censor anything at will, for example your company's firewall probably block majority of naughty websites.
I really applaud this move. So far, Apple hasn't been able to convince well-known houses that the OS X App Store is good for them. Microsoft, Adobe, Parallels, Mozilla, Oracle (for OpenOffice), Google, Skype -- non of them have any stuff in the App Store. They probably expected that the success of the iOS App Store would automatically make the OS X App Store a success, and might not have bothered starting negotiations.
Here's hoping that Amazon will succeed.
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There are just over 200 titles and more than 130 of them are for learning a language. Besides that, the store is US-only.
The Mac App Store is lame, but this is much much worse.
SYS 64738 NO CARRIER
I'm pretty comfortable on Windows, to be honest. Not an Apple user, never plan to be, and for my XP, there's always torrents. :)
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
What DRM plug? Apple has no way to stop people from downloading software from a website.
They don't now. Who's to say what they have in mind for their rumoured ARM based Macbooks? They might lamely claim that they need to "curate" apps because it's a new platform hence locked down to the app store and before you know it the same thing happens to all new macs.
the vast majority of what they currently offer are language learning programs. Something like 70 to 80% of what I saw in their store (and I looked at every single page of it) were language learning software. I'd like to learn another language, but I can't imagine needing more than one or two of them. Especially since a lot of them are duplicates just offered by different companies.
Hopefully they can flesh out their selection now that the store is getting a little press.
Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
(I'm not a lawyer yet, but I'm studying for the New York bar this summer, so that must count for something.)
Amazon is not using the "App Store" moniker for their mac store because if they do, they may automatically lose standing in the original Android App Store action. Apple has not yet received their temporary restraining order, but if they do, it will automatically apply to Amazon's Mac App Store. At that point Amazon either complies (and rebrands their site - $$) or does not and forfeits standing in the Apple action. (Essentially, if you decide to violate the rules imposed by the court, the court expects that you'll ignore an adverse ruling.) The pertinent case is Doran v. Salem Inn, Inc.. It's an interesting case and once again affirms that the fundamentals of American civil procedure owe a tremendous debt to topless dancers.
It's just a disk image (DMG). The closest thing in the Linux/Windows world is the .ISO. However, unlike Windows, disk image mounting is built into the system as shipped by Apple.
It's built into Linux too, of course. We DO use ISO images for this purpose, because they are commonly used for this purpose, and there's no particular reason to use anything else at this stage. The only think keeping the average user from mounting any loop filesystem on Linux is a lack of gui support. So in Linux land the ISO is not "the closest thing", it is one of several things which are equally as close.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
What's the difference between MSFT bundling IE into windows and Apple bundling in their "App Store" into OSX? Could Apple be forced to unbundle their own app store from OSX?
This raises the question: is this just a pilot program meant to test the water before they make one available to Windows? We all know that Windows 8 will come with a store, though there's no reason Amazon could pair up with MS to, say, single out Windows XP's "inadequacy" by releasing the store only for Vista and newer, a la IE9 / DirectX 10+.
One thing we sorely need is more equality with Smartphone software, however hard it may be: Microsoft purposely designed MS MOBI barcode reader without any Windows/PC releases whatsoever, though barcodes are only a picture away if you lack a smartphone. Newspapers advertisers and columnists seem to think *everyone* has smartphones rather than cheap phones. We don't: a recent story showed penetration in the USA has only now reached 50%, leaving a hefty half of the cellphone market out; let alone those with just landlines.
So the Application environments are becoming even more like competing video game consoles where you must have bought precisely the one the target product is on. Worse, it's like saying "oh, you have a mac/linux/windows, so you can't use this free product this minute." So besides of the issues like "Android implementation fragmentation" we are being transitioned into tomorrow's DRM markets under our own PCs. Seeing the new enthusiasm of formerly penny-less shareware writers cashing in on simple tiny apps, I predict we will start running out of the rich environment of Windows-only freeware obtainable from the web. At least there will be fewer viruses... but there will be much fewer marketless downloads too. TPM at its worst.
In the US, you're correct. In the UK, my understanding is that they typically use the plural for conglomerations.
Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
In the small list of non-language learning software, there are must-have apps such as PowerDirector 9 Deluxe and Sony Vegas, Acid and Sound Forge. Why should we bother when a shop cannot even filter for OSX.
I don't see Apple splitting their Mac market into Intel and ARM offerings. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot, offering a computer for which all software must be recompiled.
Despite not owning any Apple products, I could imagine them pushing a silent update to all devices that simply blocks the site in question.
You can 'imagine' it because you get your Apple headlines from Slashdot.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Kids, let this be a lesson to you. This is what happens when you give yourself over completely to corporate marketing.
The ability to easily update applications from a central mechanism is the one aspect of an app store that is most emphatically NOT a bullshit marketing point, it's a feature as a buyer that I love and a real reason to choose buying software from an online store.
Now I don't think it's what defines a store either, the Amazon store certainly is an app store... but if I had the choice I'd buy from the app store that would help manage distributing updates, just because I really do tend to update more often when a system like that is in place. Before I go on a trip I can do one check for updates instead of having to run 20 applications to have them each check if they need one.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I think its quite likely that if Apple go through with an ARM mac that they'll release tools so devs just build the one time to LLVM and the same code will run on Intel or ARM with no changes. It means recompiling what they have now but going forward it makes apps completely architecture agnostic. Think about the potential of that - no reliance on hardware architecture means they can ship on what's most appropriate / cheapest and there is no lock-in. LLVM is far more elegant than the fat binary approach they took with the PowerPC -> Intel transtion.
Can ISOs be sparely populated? Can they be created RW? Can they have built in encryption with the OS?
In Linux, you're not limited to mounting ISO's. You can use the program dd to read in from /dev/zero and create a file of any arbitrary size. You can then run makefs to install whatever file system you want on that file (getting features like encryption, journaling, data deduplication, etc.) Partition it with fdisk, and from there you can mount it as a loop device as though it was any disk.
It's more work to create, and requires a bit more understanding of disks/filesystems. But all of the tools are there for it on pretty much any distro you could come across.
You'll notice that those switches were whole hog: they didn't sell PPC and 68k machines next to each other. They did during the PPC-Intel transition, but only briefly, and again using an emulator to run PPC software. The switch to OS X was done by allowing people to run old software in an emulator.
I don't see them going with an ARM and then wasting 50% of its processing power running an x86 emulator.
They routinely top pools for the highest customer satisfaction and best customer service. They have a lot of goodwill with people because they do what is needed to make things right for the most part.
Well that makes their stores attractive. People may say "Well I'd rather buy my stuff from Amazon because I trust them more."
They are a company to be taken seriously.
Yes, I've done dd if=/dev/null of=disk1 bs=1M count=1024. mkfs.ext3 disk1.
But can you make them sparseimages, dynamically expanding.
Yeah, we've had loop-back filesystems in UNIX/Linux for quite some time. Of course, the handy thing is that we can pick any filesystem we want, including ones with case sensitivity. We've even got filesystems in userspace to have all sorts of cool things like encryption or Flickr "filesystems". It's not automatic in the GUI (that I've seen); perhaps that's something I should work on . . .
Nathan's blog
However, unlike Windows, disk image mounting is built into the system as shipped by Apple
Actually, Windows 7 has loopback mounting - you can mount VHD files (Virtual PC / Hyper-V disk image format) with any supported file system. You can even boot from those.
You can't mount a VHD just by double-clicking it, though, like you do with DMG in Mac. There's a command-line utility, and then there's "Attach VHD" in Disk Management, but you have to know they are there.
There is a trick in dd to creating sparse files which should let the virtual disk dynamically grow, while not actually using up all of its pre-allocated space. This would be accomplished by changing your dd command to:
dd if=/dev/zero of=disk1 bs=1 count=1 seek=1024M
But I personally have not tried this, and my understanding is that it's not well supported by a lot of common utilities. So I believe it can be done, but in most cases it's not well recommended.
I don't think Amazon is going to have apps for any more of their services on iOS, given that Apple has a June 30 deadline in place before they start enforcing their new rules regarding in-app purchases to existing apps. Kindle app would fall prey to that, and so would any hypothetical Amazon VOD app.
#2 isn't a "good reason" it's "I needed a second reason because I already said two"
flash uses 100% of whatever core you give it
Like anyone can even know that
I don't know why any of these software publisher expect me to pay the same for a download as physical media?
Because it's more convenient than physical media?