NATO Report Threatens To 'Persecute' Anonymous

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NATO Report Threatens To 'Persecute' Anonymous

Posted by Roblimo on Wednesday June 1, 2011 @05:17AM from the who-did-you-say-you-were? dept.

Stoobalou writes "NATO leaders have been warned that Wikileaks-loving 'hacktivist' collective Anonymous could pose a threat to member states' security, following recent attacks on the US Chamber of Commerce and defence contractor HBGary — and promise to 'persecute' its members." From the article: "In a toughly-worded draft report to the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, General Rapporteur Lord Jopling claims that the loose-knit, leaderless group is 'becoming more and more sophisticated,' and 'could potentially hack into sensitive government, military, and corporate files.'"

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good luck by Nihn · 2011-06-01 05:20 · Score: 5, Funny

the term "kicking water up hill" comes to mind.
1. Re:Good Luck by GreyLurk · 2011-06-01 05:55 · Score: 2
  
  What it might do is cut off recruitment. There's a spectrum of Anonymous folks, from the script kiddies who downloaded LOIC, and have it running on their parent's computer, all the way up to the serious folks who actually designed and architected the attacks. The serious folks know how to protect their anonymity well, and it's unlikely that any significant portion of them will be caught and tried. The script kiddies are pretty vulnerable though, and are going to get picked off by prosecution.
  Thing is, there's an evolution, from LOIC downloader, to someone who understands the security concepts better, to those who are able to plan and mount real attacks. If you cut the script kiddie population down drastically, and make it hard to recruit people into Anonymous, then it's going to diminish the population of higher-up members.
  The strategy ends up being just like a real war: attack and pick off off the soldiers, until the generals are exposed, then go after the generals.
2. Re:good luck by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-01 06:00 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  I think the phrase Anonymous likes to use is "pissing in an ocean of piss."
3. Re:good luck by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-01 06:41 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I think they're fishing for information, trying to observe a reaction. If NATO really wanted to go after Anonymous, it would IMHO be a strategic blunder: The whole point of Anonymous is their asymmetric approach. Not only that, but NATO doesn't even have superiority online. Another more likely scenario is that NATO wants to extend its mandate and uses Anonymous as an example "cyber" threat. I mean, who wants to guarantee that Anonymous isn't a false flag operation in the first place?
I guess we'll find out... by cold+fjord · 2011-06-01 05:21 · Score: 3

I guess we'll find out if "Anonymous" is as anonymous as they think they are, if it is truly as chaotic as some people claim. I have my doubts on both fronts.

--
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
1. Re:I guess we'll find out... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-01 06:36 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Easy. Just subpoena Amazon for the list of people who bought those Guy Fawkes masks.
Persecuting your own citizens by Hatta · 2011-06-01 05:22 · Score: 2

Let us know how that works out for you!

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Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
1. Re:Persecuting your own citizens by dgatwood · 2011-06-01 05:28 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Hey, NATO,
  What's the matter? You've been telling us for years that if we didn't do anything wrong, there's no need for privacy. Welcome to our world.
  Sincerely,
  Everyone
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
2. Re:Persecuting your own citizens by dgatwood · 2011-06-01 05:55 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  No, no, no, you misunderstood me. If the NATO member nations were doing nothing wrong, then they would have no need for privacy, and thus by their own logic, the actions of anonymous are ethical and reasonable.
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
3. Re:Persecuting your own citizens by localman57 · 2011-06-01 06:11 · Score: 2
  
  I don't think you just end up in Seal Team 6 by accident. It takes a lifetime of work and dedication. Their agenda is to promote a certain vision of society, where what is vision is determined by their superiors, who in turn (hopefully) derive their vision from the values of the collective American Hive Mind. And the individuals in Seal Team 6 are anonymous. Sound at all familliar?
Great idea! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-01 05:23 · Score: 3, Insightful

Because that's worked great against al-Qaida. Ten years and we finally caught/killed the closest thing to a leader they have and the war still continues.
Anonymous had no real leader or command structure. Pursuing this course of action would be a huge waste of time/money and only rile up a bee's nest that loves to fight back when provoked.
Good luck with that by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-01 05:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

I am Spartacus!
1. Re:Good luck with that by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-01 06:11 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I am Spartacus!
  Man, that movie would've been a lot funnier if they just started slaughtering every smartass who spoke up just to teach the rest a lesson.
  Wait, did I say "funnier"? Sorry, I meant "more true to what would actually happen if there was anything like this demonic evil fascist dictatorship going on that everyone keeps talking about".
2. Re:Good luck with that by kevinNCSU · 2011-06-01 07:15 · Score: 2
  
  I am Spartacus!
  Man, that movie would've been a lot funnier if they just started slaughtering every smartass who spoke up just to teach the rest a lesson.
  Wait, did I say "funnier"? Sorry, I meant "more true to what would actually happen if there was anything like this demonic evil fascist dictatorship going on that everyone keeps talking about".
  You're that same kid that read the first few pages of Lord of the Flies and then wrote a report on how great it was with all the kids living on an island make making Robinson Crusoe like shelters aren't you? At the end of the movie every single one of them is literally crucified along the road, cross after cross down the road, hanging there to teach everyone else a lesson.
General Rapporteur Lord Jopling by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-01 05:24 · Score: 3, Funny

I think his parents named him after consulting once of those "What's your Star Wars name?" pages.
Gross Oversimplification of the HBGary Incident by eldavojohn · 2011-06-01 05:24 · Score: 5, Interesting

The group demonstrated its capabilities in February, says the report, when it hacked into US-based defence contractor HBGary.
I neither defend nor condone Anonymous' actions but I take issue with this statement. Indeed, upon reading the report I get a little more accurate of a description:

Observers note that Anonymous is becoming more and more sophisticated and could potentially hack into sensitive government, military, and corporate files. According to reports in February 2011, Anonymous demonstrated its ability to do just that. After WikiLeaks announced its plan of releasing information about a major bank, the US Chamber of Commerce and Bank of America reportedly hired the data intelligence company HBGary Federal to protect their servers and attack any adversaries of these institutions. In response, Anonymous hacked servers of HBGary Federal’s sister company and hijacked the CEO’s Twitter account. Today, the ad hoc international group of hackers and activists is said to have thousands of operatives and has no set rules or membership.[36] It remains to be seen how much time Anonymous has for pursuing such paths. The longer these attacks persist the more likely countermeasures will be developed, implemented, the groups will be infiltrated and perpetrators persecuted.[37]
(Emphasis mine). I don't know how certain members of Anonymous found themselves on the receiving end of Aaron Barr's maligned attacks on them but I don't see their reaction to such as all too out of line. Barr went after Anonymous and it's not entirely clear to me why persecution of Anonymous is sought. What would I do in that situation? Would I lash back out at this person tracking you? Probably although I might have taken a more litigious route (and I hope those named by Barr do, regardless of any possible involvement in Anonymous).

Whoever leaked these documents is at fault here, be it Bradley Manning or anyone else who had access to the documents and leaked them. I'm guessing they signed something saying they wouldn't do that so they're at fault. Wikileaks, the press, Anonymous, the whole internet, etc are not to blame for coming into possession of them through legal means. Attack the person who broke the rules and fix the problem from its source. Whether Manning was whistle-blowing or breaking his promise of national security will be decided by what he leaked. NATO should be telling the nations to deal with their own problems and not trying to enforce more ridiculous global control.

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My work here is dung.
1. Re:Gross Oversimplification of the HBGary Incident by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-01 06:12 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  After WikiLeaks announced its plan of releasing information about a major bank, the US Chamber of Commerce and Bank of America reportedly hired the data intelligence company HBGary Federal to protect their servers and attack any adversaries of these institutions.
  False. Read the emails, the Chamber of Commerce and BOA requested ideas about how to combat the threat of wikileaks. HBGary Federal put together a presentation about methods that could be used. No one actually hired HBGary Federal, and in fact, HBGary Federal never won any government contracts. Probably because they suck, but the main point is that the Chamber, BOA, and the US government never employed them.
  
  I don't know how certain members of Anonymous found themselves on the receiving end of Aaron Barr's maligned attacks on them but I don't see their reaction to such as all too out of line. Barr went after Anonymous and it's not entirely clear to me why persecution of Anonymous is sought.
  Anonymous had already launched major attacks against many different targets, so they were obviously on the shit list of many people. Barr was apparently trying to social engineer his way into the group and gain insight into their identities. He put together a powerpoint about it and was scheduled to talk at a conference about how p2p/proxies/irc/etc doesn't hide your identity as well as you think. His initial press release indicated he wouldn't put any names in the paper.
  Anonymous then took it upon themselves to hack him. They found some random draft of his powerpoint and published it, claiming it was all wrong... but when they leaked his email spool they quickly found out that he had actual names and locations... you should have seen the shit storm in IRC with people freaking out about their real name being in the emails. This was the beginning of a major divide in Anonymous, and it has caused a splintering among various AnonOps factions.
  I have zero doubt that many members of AnonOps were picked up by the FBI. I also suspect that some of them have been forced into a double-agent role and are now FBI spies. And this is why I no longer participate in Anonymous: They have been compromised.
Acts of War by Alphanos · 2011-06-01 05:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

Oh. When we saw the story the other day that the US had declared that hacking and similar online attacks could be considered acts of war, I didn't understand the purpose of such a statement. Now I understand.
I think we might be seeing the start of America's next war on a general concept.
Any bets as to what the target will be stated as? Anonymity? The Internet in general?

--
Alphanos
1. Re:Acts of War by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-01 05:36 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It will be a war not fought to be won, but to be sustained; sustaining the military-industrial-security complex.
  Anyone can be a suspect.
2. Re:Acts of War by djdanlib · 2011-06-01 06:46 · Score: 2
  
  Yeah, you thought the "War on Terror" was vague? How about a "War on Anonymous?" Anyone and everyone could be an "enemy combatant."
  Yes, that is an enormous problem. Following this to its logical and historically-proven conclusion: The police could randomly arrest anyone who had an opinion contrary to or offensive to the state's position, with great impunity. Your spouse or best friend could be walking down the street or across a parking lot, on their way to buy groceries, when suddenly two officers escort him/her away potentially never to be seen or heard from again.
  Just like China and a lot of other nations, especially communist states and dictatorships. I was hoping we could somehow avoid going that route but the more corporation-influenced we supposed first-world countries get, the more we align to backwards ideologies like this. The wheels are in motion, and the momentum has built. We are not at critical mass yet, but it's not far off.
  These are certainly interesting developments... What a dangerous edge we tread as a society that's supposed to be more enlightened than that. I would hope that given due process of deliberation and voting, this notion is defeated, because of the potential (and looking at the entirety of human history, completely inevitable) consequences.
  We all see the problem, but who's doing anything? It's time to move beyond reactionary debate and into political action. What do we do now? Without joining or eschewing "anonymous", which can potentially be a red herring in a political arena anyway since it's by definition not an identity or entity, what can be done?
"The tighter you grip ... by DaGoodBoy · 2011-06-01 05:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

... the more systems will slip through your fingers."

--
My God! It's full of Voids!
1. Re:"The tighter you grip ... by spun · 2011-06-01 05:43 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  "... the more you risk a serious chafing and subsequent desensitization of the glans, leading to increased frictional requirements, leading to a tighter grip in a terrible downward spiral that ends up with something that resembles a hot dog stricken with leprosy. "
  
  --
  - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
2. Re:"The tighter you grip ... by geminidomino · 2011-06-01 06:08 · Score: 2
  
  It should be pointed out that shortly after that line was spoken, her entire planet was blown the fuck up.
  Perhaps a war of attrition isn't the right tactic...
New hunt :D by vikisonline · 2011-06-01 05:29 · Score: 2

Well Bin laden is dead so we need the next witch hunt! So lets invade the country where most of these "anonymous" live. Oh wait, we are invading usa?
Still stings? by jimmerz28 · 2011-06-01 05:30 · Score: 2

HBGary still paying off people to try and stick it to Anon after they revealed how useless all the money going to HBGary was?
Huh...
We should certainly be fearful of people who are able to hack into systems taxpayers paid for. Maybe the government should start hiring them!
It's always scary when there are motivated people who will expose just how worthless you are.
What if? by ArhcAngel · 2011-06-01 05:30 · Score: 3, Interesting

What if the individuals they employ to do the persecution are members of anonymous? What if members of anonymous worked for Sony? Everyone seems to assume anonymous is made up of script kiddies with no real jobs or responsibilities. Granted what I have heard about their behavior on 4chan could lend credence to that presumption but don't we all get a little emboldened when we think we are "anonymous"? What if your co-worker is actually a member of anonymous? It could explain why your PC crashed after you pissed him off the other day.

--
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
1. Re:What if? by creat3d · 2011-06-01 05:49 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  We cook your food. We pick up your trash. We are your doctors and sysadmins. We manufacture your weapons and security bunkers. We are your IT and shipping departments. We distribute the mail and clean your cum-stained hotel rooms. DO NOT FUCK WITH US.
  
  --
  Grammar nazis are to this community what excrements are to gold.
I think the correct answer is both by Timmy+D+Programmer · 2011-06-01 05:33 · Score: 2

That's the problem with 'collectives'

--

(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
Re:"persecute" != "prosecute" by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2011-06-01 05:36 · Score: 2

It does seem atypically honest to admit that they are going to persecute them, rather than simply claiming to act under color of law and then persecuting them anyway... Now that our frenemy Mubarak is on the outs, who do we outsource torture to?
Translation by wcrowe · 2011-06-01 05:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

Translation: we now have a convenient bogeyman to use as an excuse to exercise greater control over the masses.

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Proverbs 21:19
How about... by pasv · 2011-06-01 05:48 · Score: 2

How about you start prosecuting nations actively participating in cyber attacks on your countries? Surely it's more of a threat!
The 'Anonymous' name gives crackers that already were hacking before a name to go under. Basically anyone who can quote "We are legion" and is already hacking can now put up a sweet little front.
So NATO: stop chasing ghosts. Sure they could make a few arrests but I imagine there are more sects of anonymous than there are nations. The terrible truth to this situation is that once they start openly prosecuting who they think is "Anonymous" every blackhat will be given an excuse to start their campaigns on them. "Provoking the wrath of anonymous" actually means "painting targets on hackers and paying the price". Anonymous wants to stay anonymous they shouldn't go provoking an enemy they don't know or understand.
The quintessential example is HBGary; learn from history.
If... by RdeCourtney · 2011-06-01 05:51 · Score: 2

If Anonymous have the potential to hack in, then China, North Korea and the NATO's other "non-allies" could hack... The US and NATO should use this opportunity to toughen up their systems and defences rather than fight a war with lawyers and words that are likely to provoke rather than fix..

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Insert signature here...
Governments should be afraid of their people by Omnifarious · 2011-06-01 05:51 · Score: 4, Insightful

I can only hope that Anonymous exceeds their expectations. Right now, it looks like they think Anonymous is a threat they can crush. I dearly hope that it isn't. My government should be quaking in its boots at the thought of angering a significant minority of those it governs. "Government by consent of the governed." has meant far too little for far too long.

--
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
1. Re:Governments should be afraid of their people by creat3d · 2011-06-01 06:02 · Score: 2
  
  I would agree with you but I'm too scared of what would happen if I did so publicly.
  
  --
  Grammar nazis are to this community what excrements are to gold.
Re:right. sure. by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2011-06-01 06:04 · Score: 4, Funny

Why don't anon just topple the jerks in Georgia for fun? Then? On to the criminal regime in Bahrain!
Then NATO can really worry and wonder.

--
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Re:right. sure. by Wyatt+Earp · 2011-06-01 06:44 · Score: 2

NATO has things like the SAS, SEALs, Delta, USAF Cyber Command, Fleet Electronic Warfare Center, you know a real mix of people that kill and people that defend against information and electronic warfare.
NATO wanting to go after cyber activists and terrorists coupled with the announcement yesterday that the DoD considered cyber attacks to be an act of war could result in military action, both overt and covert, against people that piss off the US and EU.
Remember that the big members of NATO are also big members of the EU - France, United Kingdom, Germany, and Holland. Per the NATO alliance, an attack against one NATO member is an attack against them all.
just following orders by Thud457 · 2011-06-01 06:48 · Score: 4, Insightful

Bradley Manning has instigated more positive change in the world than the whole CIA in the last 30 years.
His handlers should let the cat out of the bag and accept the kudos they deserve. Talk about bang for the buck!

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the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Re:how tough is anonymous by SilentStaid · 2011-06-01 06:51 · Score: 2

Really? Your reasoned and rational use of force as suggested is that someone (hopefully you meant cop) kicks in a **SUSPECT**s door for... taking a server offline?

What the fuck is wrong with you?
Re:Anonymous or not? by BurzumNazgul · 2011-06-01 07:16 · Score: 2

Pretty much. PBS and Sony hacks were done by lulzsec.
I've mentioned that a few times in various posts but it's usually modded to oblivion.
lulzsec also spent yesterday taking down 2600.org, a rival blackhat group's hangout.

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I can say [REDACTED] anytime I want!