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Ask Slashdot: Uses For a Small Office Server?
ragnvaldr writes "I'm the 'IT guy' for an office of about a dozen people. And when I say IT guy, I mean I'm the only one here who can use google well enough to figure out how to make things work. We have a 500GB Mac server with a Drobo with 6TB of storage attached. So far all this server does is back up data, and I want to make it a little more useful. We also have a Filemaker server on it, which I have yet to learn how to use at all, let alone efficiently. Any suggestions to make this machine a little more useful?"
Porn server, of course!
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
what does the office do and what software do you us? Windows or mac on the desktops?
Give me your password and I'll think of something...
...you let a perceived need dictate a use, not the other way around.
How many printers do you have? How are they set up? Are you a workgroup? Do you want to centralize administration? What kind of software are your users working with? Do you use Outlook?
To get any decent suggestions your going to have to give a little more information.
Doorstop?
Seriously, data backups are crucial in every enterprise, even small ones. That's a *great* use for your server. Are you checking on your process by restoring files once per month? Once per quarter? I joined a bioscience center that had faithfully been making backups for half a year before I joined but five months of the backups had no data. So do check, please.
I have more questions about your backup methods than I can easily list here. Still, there are other good uses for *every* server. They can all:
1) Provide DHCP addresses
2) Offer NTP to keep the clocks synchronized
3) Provide comprehensive system logging (for all systems of concern)
4) Store and/or offer common utilities like print services
Ah yes, the good old "if you don't know, don't even bother asking just fuck off"! Thank god not ALL slashdotters are as worthless as you are, but that argument comes up waaay too often.
Mac OSX Server is pretty powerful and you can do alot with it. it could be a print server, a web server, ftp, email, application . . . i would caution putting all those services on one machine, as a single point of failure is sometimes trouble for the less experienced, and you don't want to bring down any data. i have a couple of mac servers running virtually using Parallels on a couple of MacPro's and it handles it quite well and it's very stable and efficient.
i would take a class or buy a book or just RTFM . . . 0_o
I second this, a good small business I.T. consultant/contractor can be hard to find, but if you find a good guy a few hours of his time could save you a lot of headaches. My former boss who had small business specializing in networking for small businesses probably could set everything up for a business your size in a few days.
Yeah, I'm sure a 12-person office has an extra 100k sitting around for an IT guy.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
It sounds to me like you haven't identified a business need and are fishing for one. Wouldn't it be better to look at how the business operates and from there see if there is something that can be done more efficiently? If there is, then ask yourself how this server can be used to address that problem. A server can do a lot of things, but don't look at those things and try to force it on the business when the need doesn't necessarily exist. It may create more problems then it solves.
If what you are really looking for is something to play with, then Filemaker sounds like a great place to start. It could be your introduction to databases. Once you understand the power of databases, you may find areas of the business that might benefit from a database. But until you have the knowledge, you aren't in a position to implement and support one. Just remember, if you're going to play with something, don't do it on a production server. Backups are a real business need. Even if that is the only thing the box is used for, it is a perfectly good reason for its existence.
Use and study it as much as you can: knowledge pays for itself and OSX Server is not the same thing as a raw linux/bsd box. (And while you're at it: enjoy every single pixel of their Apache and Mailman admin interface OSX style, you'll miss 'em in real life!)
Requirements first, lad.
What do you need? What would improve productivity or whatnot?
If you don't need anything, then turn it off. Saves money. Quantifiable improvement.
Why? It's doing backups, and it's a full-fledged Unix machine.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
yup. Something about a solution in search of a problem is coming to mind.
Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
If things are working as they should already. Create a whole bunch of servers! Centvm, DNS vm, even web hosting... You are not risking much if you just pay attention to your memory. Max out the internal drive space and RAM.
i dont know what your office do, but it could be used to share some motivation videos, maybe some porn to release the stress, mmm i dont know any game server for macosx, but seriously, why the f. you ask this on /.
I dont think you would get another answer than install porn
It's generally better to start a project from "I want to accomplish [x], so what do I need?" rather than "I have [x], so what can I accomplish with it?" The first approach will be much more focused and more likely to succeed.
Second thing to keep in mind: you don't want to experiment on a production server. I don't care if the "production server" is only a backup server-- if you don't want to endanger your backups, then it's still a production server. This means you shouldn't do anything with this server until you've planned what you want to install on it, and you've already set up a test implementation and you know what you're doing.
Third thing to keep in mind: in current IT practices, it's often not worth it for a small company to do things for themselves unless they need to. You probably need a local file server and therefore also a backup scheme. Aside from that, things like web hosting, email, and chat are usually better handled by a big company that can afford a datacenter. If you do try to do email internally, make sure you back it up and have a plan for outages and disaster recovery.
All that aside, you could start with basic services: directory services, file sharing, email, etc. Filemaker has its uses, but let the use determine the tool. Don't go around pounding on everything just because you've found yourself a hammer. Define the job, and then pick the best tool for the job.
You ever hear of an IT consultant? it's what I do for a living... sometimes I have work for months with a client, sometimes I only need to be there for a few hours.
This job looks like it wouldn't be more than a few hours. If you can find a place that will give me 100k to set up a fileserver, let me know.
Do you have a mac os x server license? If not, you can buy it, and you'll have a lot of services available, from podcast server to directory server, iCal server, and a lot of options.
Make sure it is reliable before you get people to rely on it. Make sure both the computer and storage are on UPS and have good surge protection. Ideally you want the server to shutdown before it loses power. Also, make sure you have some sort of backup scheme in place. Tape backup, DVD, whatever, just make sure you can backup the data and restore. It's a really good idea to test your backups from time to time to make sure they can be read. Ideally you will also save your backups either off-site, or at least in a fire safe. Also, check that the server area doesn't get too hot as that can cause problems as well. Make sure you apply current OS patches. Ideally you will also have anti-virus protection. If the office has access to the internet, make sure you have at least a cheap hardware firewall, or better if you can, to protect everyone. Consider physical security. Do you lock the room with the server? Use cables to secure it? Document things in case you need to rebuild it.
Consider information security: does everyone get access to everything?
Besides that, file servers tend to be very handy, even for small offices. Put any sort of shared resources you use on the file server instead of on individual PCs. Things like: document templates, form letters, contact lists, etc.
Beyond that, it really depends on your business doesn't it? I assume you bought Filemaker for a reason. Information sharing must be important somehow. You can use Filemaker as the heart of a lot of business applications. Would an internal web server be useful? Internal mail server? List server?
One more thing, teach people how things are intended to be used.
Help them out - make sure their PCs are properly patched, have anti-virus, and ideally aren't running as administrator.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
What?
Maybe thats directed towards the editors.
Backup. Oh you're already doing that? Done.
This depends on a lot of things we (and you seem to) not know about. No offense.
In a nutshell: You seem to be looking for trouble.
Have you seen any new needs coming up? You shouldn't have to shovel functionality down just for the sake of it. Sometimes simplicity is worth it and more is less.
Also, we can't be in your office to know what goes on there. You most probably know better than all of us.
If you can google enough to make things work, the next step seems to learn how to google enough to know about what is worth making work.
I wish I could give you output regarding a lot of cool things you could do with your server to boost productivity, make people happy and make you happy, but what are your needs on the first place? You wish to learn? Increase profit? Reduce downtime? Those are all useful in one way or another.
If you wish to learn, you can just go around asking yourself stuff:
Have you got some monitoring going on?
Is your server hardened? Could you think of ways of breaking into it?
Does it have any form of redundancy? What happens if it explodes?
Is a domain server needed?
I think you should pay attention to what happens on your office/network, study a bit if you're serious about it, google and answer things for yourself. And for pete's sake, don't go testing things on the server.
1. Get in the apple server bootcamp class and learn how to use it. Its not a overly difficult course and gives you good insight into what all the platform offers you.
2. Hire me as your mac admin short term since ive been doing this for the past 15 years and need to eat.
Why would you replace a Unix server with a Linux server?
I do not read or respond to AC's. If you want a discussion, log in. Otherwise, don't waste your time.
Advice is buy a 386 off eBay, open it up and take out the LED and the turbo button, bang a hole into the mac server, solder in the turbo button and put a battery containing led with acid mixed together into the server case. Now it's a little more useful. Anymore worthless questions or did you expect we all have magic "useful" ways that'll increase your bottomline 20%?
if your company is more than ten people, you should try a wiki of course.
Set up a document versioning system to track changes.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
Using Apache, you can fire it up as a local web host, for company wiki or SVN.
- Holy crap, I've got MOD points! Who thought that was a good idea.
6Tb of storage is excellent for a file server. However, unless you are bringing files offsite and running occasional restore tests, then it's not really a good setup as a backup. I'm not sure of the Drobo's capabilities, or how the drives are configured within it, but you might consider taking a couple of them offline and cycling through them like tapes; bringing the spare drives offsite.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Host a company wiki.
Although, I have to say, getting people to use a wiki is like pulling teeth at my company.
There will be no thinking outside the box here! This is Slashdot and we are legion. Now go back to your cube. (and stop trying to make the rest of us look bad. we are already at least 3 rules ahead of you)
Here's how you can best serve your employer: Realize that your problem is out of your hands. Figure out first what you need that thing to do. Then hire a professional who can deliver that. Don't half ass it. Don't risk your job and get fired for half assing it and failing miserably. Hire pros. They are worth their weight in gold.
No way! Use these people who are too cheap to hire a consultant to further your knowledge. Learn everything you can on the company time, no matter how badly you screw things up there. You'll gain valuable experience, and besides..... you never claimed to be an I.T. expert did you? If it gets too scary for them, they'll just have to hire someone.
Then use this server as a test environment for your learning purposes and for demo applications. You could use this server to help discover what you might or probably don't need.
TLDR: keep it so simple that it *can't* screw up and you can't get your ass kicked.
Just keep it as a file server! OSX server would have been a simple drop-in solution for groupware but OSX server is dead - and having the organisation's groupware residing on just one physical machine is questionable.
It would be wise (even if you were a real IT person) to try to move any responsibility you have to somebody/somewhere else. You can do this by using hosted groupware such as Zimbra or Goolge Apps and even hosted file server such as Ignyte (it's awesome!, you just run a VM locally as a cache and use simple online the web interface to manage everything.)
Also, just a thought - if you just need a simple file server then using just the Drobo without the server is probably the way to go. If you use just the Drobo you have 1 less moving piece to fail.
Remember, if something goes wrong it is *you* who is responsible - and "I'm not an IT guy anyway" doesn't cut it.
I'm presuming this machine is for internal use only. If you need to host external services, such as a website, pay $1k for another Mini Server and use that exclusively for external facing services.
That being said, you could activate the Wiki function and produce a little company Intranet where people could post and update information. That's quite easy to do once you've enabled the WebServer (using Server Admin).
It's also easy to set up LDAP server, which will at a minimum simplify your account management. You could use Mobile accounts on each workstation, so that the workstation's data is local but is automatically both backed up to the server -and made available- if the user has to log onto or borrow another machine.
You could configure VPN for safe remote access (but that's a bit tricky.)
Right now the best book on OS X Server Admin is Daniel Eran Dilger's book. (http://www.amazon.com/Snow-Leopard-Server-Developer-Reference/dp/0470521317)
My experience as a SOHO user/administrator of Server going back to Tiger Server is that each version has gotten easier to use, but unless the out-of-the-box configuration is -exactly what you need-, it's worth paying a couple $100s to get an expert to fully configure the server initial setup, particularly the DNS. If the DNS isn't set up perfectly, a lot of stuff breaks in OS X Server. (I've used Mid Atlantic Consulting here in the DC area.)
Finally, you need to have an additional backup strategy that involves off-site/off-machine backups. Consider the recent tornadoes all over the US! I have a pair of USB drives and my plan is to monthly back up to one and swap it for the other stored at an offsite location (friend's house.) (Disclosure: I'm about 6 months behind doing that, one of the drives in an external exclosure died and I haven't gotten around to replacing it.)
Stop! Stop right there!
RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!
Actually... I used to be an on-demand IT guy. I worked for a company that charged on billable hours. When something needed maintenance or a break happened, I would schedule some time to see them and take care of it. When my clients had a need, they'd talk it out with me and our business guy, we'd draw up a quote and then do the work. We'd also take care of necessary maintenance (again on demand).
It's actually a pretty good way to get the IT needs taken care of without needing to spend 100K... Or even 50K... If you're an office of about a dozen or so you could probably get by on less than 10K/year including hardware.
It worked out for me because I had a lot of clients, so I always had work to do... It worked great for my clients because (I like to think) that I did good work for them without costing them their profit margin.
Stonewall and obfuscate until they are willing to hire additional help or give you an obscene raise. Once they recognize your unique ability to set priorities, they will promote you to manager.
How is this insightful? The guy asked what things he he might be able to use a Mac server for his admitted skilset and you're telling him he's over his head and should hire a professional. And what exactly will he be hiring this professional to do? Man some geeks are so full of themselves they've gone 180 to stupid.
Yep... IT seems fairly easy for a layman until you have a hardware failure due a power outage, and suddenly find out that your daily backups haven't been working correctly for the past few weeks.
Only THEN will many people understand how important IT concepts like UPS battery backup, RAID, and scheduled backup tests are.
I think the most important thing you can do for your small company is to research and implement an off-site backup solution. Find one strikes the right balance of cost versus privacy/security for the business sector that you're in. So if you're using the Mac as a central place to back up the employees individual computers, or if you've made it the place where everyone saves all their files, that's a great first step. But it needs to be augmented with off-site backup.
I have seen too many examples of small businesses losing all of their data to theft or fire. I don't mean I'm reading about them on the web, I mean I hear these stories in person. I'm honestly amazed at how many times this happens, and having central backup or central storage alone isn't enough to mitigate the dangers.
Good luck, and happy Googling!
If the rest of your computers are macs as well, use the space on that drobo for everyones timemachine backups(assuming no one has like 1Tb of data on their machine). Timemachine works pretty well for recovering both accidentally deleted files or restoring a machine thats had a hardware failure of some kind. If you don't want 12 machines all trying to back up data every hour all at the same time over your network, you can change how often timemachine does backups by editing the file /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.backupd-auto.plist. If you aren't familiar with launchd(what OSX uses to start and stop processes) then def read up on it before editing any plist files.
Normally I recommend NOT editing anything in /System, but thats where apple put the time machine preference files so I suppose in this case it's acceptable to modify that file.
Oh and some type of wiki is always a nice tool, I think OSX server comes with one, or you could just use WikiMedia.
If I think of anything else I'll be sure to post it, but as others have said, it's best to think of what your business needs rather than invent problems to fix.
If what I just said sounded like a troll, it was probably just a failed attempt at humor.
I run the server for a small company as well, and since we do some Apache/MySQL stuff on it anyway, there's a lot of lightweight, mostly turn-key Apache/MySQL stuff I've set up opportunistically, some of which have turned out to be useful to the whole organization, and some of which have just turned out to be useful for me and the developers. It's a bit simpler to set up on a Linux server where a lot of this stuff is prepackaged for you, but Macports is rather straightforward, and installing PHP apps is only marginally more complicated than unpacking a zip file. Among other things, we're using:
Limesurvey
Pastebin
TikiWiki
WordPress
All of these require (trivial) database setup, which I manage with phpMyAdmin.
Don't overreach though. Your time is valuable, so you're much better off paying a bit to one of the many service providers who will gladly provide you with similar services for free or cheap, than mucking around in config files you don't understand. Your intranet server is still a great place to do proof-of-concept setups for things that ultimately you'd want to outsource. I use it more for things that require more customization than I can get from a service provider, but I'm a fairly experienced system administrator.
There's no failure quite as dissatisfying as a complete and total solution to the wrong problem.
Setup Cron (or whatever) to send alerts via email. Did the backup complete successfully? Send an Alert. Did the backup fail? Send an alert. Is a disk failing? Send an alert. Is the CPU usage higher than average over a six month period? Send an alert. Is it a full moon? Send an alert. Is it the vernal equinox? Send an alert. Is it Elvis' birthday? Send an alert. I do a whole This Day in History alert. You can also use ASCII to jazz up the emails, as long as it still looks good on a phone display. I also have a few thousand jokes that I setup to randomly insert one joke as a sig to each alert. There is also the countdown of how many days left to xmas that kicks in after Turkey day.
If you think macs are overpriced, you havent seen the price of that drobo boat anchor.
Set up an Alfresco server.
http://wiki.alfresco.com/wiki/Installing_on_MacOS_X
I think its free for up to 15 people. It will give you CMS experience, give your small company an organized place for your documents, and if you stick with OSX, you can back it all up with Time Machine. If Alfresco is no longer free, try O3Spaces.
*Disclaimer: Your question made it on to Slashdot because the idea of "I have this cool powerful thing, what can I do with it?" is an extremely valid and commonly asked question which will yield a lot of useful responses. Unfortunately, it exposes you to inevitable flaming (for good reason, there's a lot of disgruntled and "more-qualified-than-you-for-your-job" people on Slashdot without a 500GB Mac Server at their disposal but plenty of experience to find a valid business purpose for it). Hold your ground though, because asking questions will help you keep that job of yours. Just remember that most businesses frown upon "buy first, find a fun use for it later" approach at IT equipment, so comments will reflect that. :)
-Tres
Is this a relatively recent Mac OSX Server operating system?
Are the workstations also Mac?
Share Calendars
Centralized Address Book
Share Files
Print server
DHCP
DNS --- you can have friendly names for all IP connected internal devices
Landing point for remote managment -- when you are offsite, you can VPN into the server and launch Apple Remote Desktop or "Chicken Of The VNC" so you can log onto your co-worker's desktop to interactively resolve an issue.
Software Update Server (workstations download from your server, instead of from Apple, so you use much less bandwidth.)
Network home directories if you are inclined
Any number of office automation and data management tasks can be built on Filemaker ---
--- personalized form letters or email blasts
--- project tracking, todo lists
--- hr management functions
--- document management
--- product documentation
--- build quotes and estimates
--- invoices
Network location for software installers
Image server to restore or upgrade workstations.
Because there's no software for MAC OS unless you install the stuff developed on Linux?
"All it does is back up data."
If you fuck uppa da backups then you gotta backa da fuck up and finda youself a new job. Capisce?
It isn't that at all. I've worked in the field and taken plenty of calls from guys like this. Guys who thought, yeah, I know just enough to be dangerous, let's see what I can do. Then he's sitting there, no backups, no duplication of media, nothing to keep his ass out of the frying pan, and then he's on the phone to me because he's got some hot project that he needs the system for and it suddenly becomes my priority to unfuck the mess he's in.
Either way, he should call the pro. It's cheaper if he calls before he fucks everything up beyond belief.
Be well aware of what you don't know. There are good comments about security and reliability already. Outsource things such e-mail and web services to a reliable, willing to be audited vendor. Ensure DR plan and testing is included.
Now the big point. You have greater than 6 TB of storage. Is there a backup and recovery plan in place? RAID is not equal to backup. Is this information important to the business or is someone unwilling to learn "delete" options? Does the backup plan include off site media migration? That can be as expensive as Iron Mountain, a company safe deposit box or just someone takes a tape set home on Fridays. Test your recovery on bare metal. Cloud backups are one option, although you're now betting that another company will survive and maintain any privacy requirements you have. Warn the decision makers, ensure that the "when Drobo raid controller burps and scrambles all disks" there will be no recovery is a possible scenario. Granted that may or may not happen this year or next. It's more likely that Bart the intern will purge the Drobo so he can save DVDs he's ripping all afternoon. Now you have redundant movies.
Document the warnings and the decision to not spend money and accept the risk(s). As management amnesia sets in, this keeps you from holding the bag.
I run a small office as well and found the following two applications helpful
1 fax server
2 scanner
We all use faxes. Just imagine how much easier everybody*s life would be if they could send/receive faxes from their machine instead of using paper.
Imagine how much faster everything would be in the office if ALL documents were stored on a hard drive that can be backed up instead of expensive fireproof cabinets.
Agreed. Apple techs are far from "worth their weight in gold". First off, they have specialized, niche skills (if they have them at all), secondly, they are fat.
That's the first intelligent reply on this thread. Sometimes I wonder how drunk the average slashdotter is while posting...
Man some geeks are so full of themselves they've gone 180 to stupid.
Reply to This Parent
Okay, I'll reply to the parent - it's not collective arrogance, it's a bunch of desperate starving dogs gathering around to hustle and fight over a soup bone*
* In case you didn't get the analogy, It means that many I.T. guys are unemployed and have been without work for months, or even years, and are will take anything they can get.
Unfortunately in this economy, as another poster said above, keeping a job will depend on stonewalling and obfuscation; but the irony is that to be valuable enough to keep your job, you will also have to be just inexpensive enough.
It isn't that at all. I've worked in the field and taken plenty of calls from guys like this. Guys who thought, yeah, I know just enough to be dangerous, let's see what I can do. Then he's sitting there, no backups, no duplication of media, nothing to keep his ass out of the frying pan, and then he's on the phone to me because he's got some hot project that he needs the system for and it suddenly becomes my priority to unfuck the mess he's in.
Either way, he should call the pro. It's cheaper if he calls before he fucks everything up beyond belief.
You non-science, non-engineering types, especially in IT, love to exaggerate and use pontificating language. You clearly don't mean "fucks everything up beyond belief" because it's a meaningless phrase that you picked up from your stupid colleagues in IT. "nothing to keep his ass out of the frying pan" -- is that really necessary? Get to the point and move on.
How hard are backups? rsync, RAID, different storage media, onsite and offsite backups, and cost / benefit analysis to defend the choices. Some of it will be subjective (the "benefit" of something is obviously difficult to gauge and liable to debate). You could suggest some points of reference. That's what every good scientist and every good engineer I've met does -- because they know their worth is not limited to learning some quirks about programs. They design and build stuff. They often debug it. The bad ones constantly overstate their worth and present themselves with a really irritating know-it-all attitude. The bad ones think that by communicating their ideas and helping others out, they are risking job security. The good ones help others learn how to learn. The good ones demonstrate that they know their stuff and understand their worth is not rooted just in knowledge or wisdom, but also in interpersonal skills, often overlooked or downplayed in STEM fields.
I used to be like you in high school. I had worked at a few Fortune 100 companies as a coder / sysadmin type and I didn't realize my douchiness until I left the field in college for computer science, electrical engineering, physics, and chemistry. I know my comments sound a bit harsh, but maybe my tone may make you reevaluate how you behave.
Firstly, (and most importantly) read the documentation: http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/resources/documentation.html
Secondly, you can set up a wiki server pretty easily. It is extremely useful for self-help and internal process documentation. Easy to add videos, screenshots and keep the documentation up to date.
Thirdly, if you don't have an office collaboration server, you can also run your own Jabber server.
Both Wiki and Jabber services have their own documentation at the aforementioned link.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
An organization of 12 people is not going to need much in the way of centralized "IT" services, so keep it simple. You don't want to create more work than necessary and your company likely wants to keep the overhead of IT low at this stage. Back up their laptops/workstations to the server and provide core services like file shares, print shares, DHCP, and authentication. Use cloud services to provide things like Exchange, SharePoint, and what not if you need them. Then just make sure you are backing up any data that is solely hosted on the server. Always, always, always have two verified copies of everything, and try not to keep them in the same location.
That's the first intelligent reply on this thread. Sometimes I wonder how drunk the average slashdotter is while posting...
They are not drunk. They are simply stupid and juvenile... even when they are not juvenile anymore.
generally, it sounds like you have a file server. So, #1 is to keep that running well and backed up, which actually isn't that hard.
After that, there isnt much you need it for that you couldnt do in the cloud. So, if the question is "i have hardware can i use it for something", the answer is, you could use it for stuff that is free and easier to manage in the cloud. With the exception, generally of storing files.
Want email... put it on a hosted exchange server for $7/user/month and forget about it.
Want a wiki... use any of many online systems.
If you want to justify your job you can try to build all this stuff on your server, and worry about the server, power and configuration full time. But that is just an inefficient use of your companies money and your time.
So, make sure your files are stored and backed up- maybe accessible remotely and securely. But other than that...
"Hire a professional?... Is that your best answer? I read a response like that and I envision a slanted eye smary car sales man in a moth eaten tweed coat "yess sirr this car is better, but don't take my word for it.." Anyway...MacOS servers have major advantages if you use Mac clients in your network. It allows for a rich set of features comprable to that of wins server. As an app server it's reluctant to break due to threading. A great search or index server. No, you don't need a pro to do this either. You can run client windows, vms, sftp, etc. A potential to be a PITA without cost to TCO like most wins environs. Scaling may be a challenge, and most move to Linux to do this. FOr now you have quiet a bit to work with
I see you've never actually used a Mac as a server. Apple sells a server flavor of OS X, and it's actually quite good.
Call the pro?
Call him for what? If you don't have a problem and you "call a pro" you're going to get a solution you didn't need for a problem you didn't have.
You have this backwards. First he comes to slashdot to figure out how to make it useful, once he's done that only THEN can we tell him to hire a pro.
Admittedly there are many people who follow your model of thinking. They invariably end up spending the rest of the year figuring out where all the money went while reading their emails on an iPad sitting next to their computer.
...it's full of stars.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Actually your "douchiness" seems like it still has its moments. (and i doubt you've restored a multi-TB backup successfully in the last few years)
Yes, it's not this guys fault he's got a little more motivation than some but most of us realize he's going to jump in with both feet and FUBAR something *really bad* and then get fired for it. So the consensus still stands: Hire a pro or a consultant, and if you still want to do his job after you see what a pain in the ass it is to do it right, then you can just watch him work. You'll probably learn a lot more from him than reading google or slashdot.
That machine could be adding to the company's bottom line instead of just being a depreciating asset.
It's rare to see such a combination of technical experience, and familiarity with the realities of implementing a solution in a small business environment.
Usually you can only get one or the other from any particular individual. This is solid advice and a good starting point. It should be modded up.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Until you try to do a softwareupdate -i -a via ssh and it hangs on iTunes (due to EULA acceptance GUI). Why is iTunes installed by default on OS X Server?
If the server were to randomly break in the near future, what would be the cost to the company in terms of lost time? Today, computers are often cheap compared to human time.
If you want to expand your knowledge and experiment with extra functionality, get a cheap computer to experiment on. It might make financial sense to end up with several servers with trialed programs that ended up working and become part of mainstream work. Then, you might want a professional to consolidate the servers.
It's generally better to start a project from "I want to accomplish [x], so what do I need?" rather than "I have [x], so what can I accomplish with it?"
Your's is an engineer's answer. Innovators, on the other hand, tend to be driven more by the question "What can we do?" than by "What do we need?", as in Faraday's answer to "What use is electricity?": '"What use is a new-born baby?" The history of technology is full of examples where the major benefits were not even imagined before the technology became available.
This is not an easy point for me to admit, because I am by temperament more of an engineer than an innovator.
There's nothing wrong with doing things oneself, if one does them right.
I frequently have to pick my jaw off the floor when I look at what professionals have done. Which, mind you, isn't always the fault of the professionals, but can be because those professionals aren't mind readers and don't now what's so obvious to a company's manager that he never tells them. Or a manager who has to stay within a budget, and orders a half-assed job. Or a manager who can't write contracts and don't have anyone technical enough to verify specs.
Sure, I just as often have seen internal snafus, where someone hacked up something terrible.
That's "just as often", not "more often".
'Cause quite frankly, the "professionals" can be quite incompetent too, and often are. They hire people based on the demand for work they get, and are legally obligated to fulfill a contract and give a customer what he asks for, not what he needs. The professionals are the ones who ask the customer "what browser do you use?" and then proceed to code a project for that browser, and are the assholes responsible for why so many companies are still at IE6. Who uses authentication that works for the test user, but won't work for remote users, or the sysadmin who doesn't use Windows. Who foists upon the customer completely idiotic platform requirements (including both OS versions, JVM versions and network specifics). Who take shortcuts, including hardcoding and incorrect assumptions.
Because robustness was never a consideration; just getting the job done and move on. Hell, if it breaks, it's a good chance they get hired back to fix it!
In short, professionals are dangerous. What you want are experts. And most professionals aren't; they are consultants on a H1B or in-between real jobs, who know just enough to be dangerous, working for profit, not pride.
In this case, I too think the OP should leave well enough alone, but not for your flawed reasons.
If a system is already used for backups, it is one of the most important systems the business has. It should be treated as blessed, and not to be messed with, only replaced when that day comes. It's so critical that it deserves the "legacy" stamp from day one, no matter how modern it is at that point.
Do not look for unused capacity on critical systems. There is a chance that you break them, but also the reverse risk that what you implement itself becomes critical to the business, and that higher demand on the existing system will break your new functionality.
Do you really want to be responsible for restores not working the day lightning strikes, because your app needed a patch that invisibly broke backups? Or do you want your app to become a favourite of managers, and then suddenly become sluggish or not work at all once someone decides to back up the new Hawaii or Europe office during what's business hours for you?
Also, untangling two critical functions running on the same system without business impact can be a daunting task, which is best avoided.
tl;dr: Don't mess with critical systems. This is not the unused capacity you are looking for. Move on.
RAID is not a backup solution. RAID will simply increase the reliability. I've had many raid 5 arrays fail and loose everything. There are many ways of backing up data and RAID is not one of them.
All of them count as "useful" to someone or other.
We'll all worked in the field, and taken visits from guys like you. The smallest glitch is "being in deep shit", the smallest deviation form doing what YOU know to do, the exact way YOU do it, is "fucking everything up beyond belief". And trying to actually work with you to get anything done yields... same results.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
1. Configure it as an unsecure FTP server.
2. Expose it to a public network for a few days/weeks.
3. Collect 6TB of pr0n and movies from your server.
4. ?????
5. Profit.
Agreed. Apple techs are far from "worth their weight in gold". First off, they have specialized, niche skills (if they have them at all), secondly, they are fat.
You know why they are fat?
Because they don't have to DO anything!
i liked the "working for profit, not pride" bit.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Case Study: Client with 45 users; he's in charge of accounting, warehouse management and oh yeah: IT. He loves IT, has built some custom scripts, manages the domain, has kept the server humming for 7 years. Time for a new server. I do a full IT review/vulnerability assessment and make recommendations (sales/consulting/herb Tarlick guy w/ 20 years experience and a passion for all things IT. My home network is way out of proportion for the needs of 2 people) in concert with our systems engineers. We propose a solution, clearly define the scope - based on best-practices from long experience and membership and participation with a peer organization in our industry, and include in it an estimated cost. We include training for the guy and explicitly mention that he will be a part of the install process and that he will be trained. SLA's are clearly defined. We came in UNDER BUDGET, the network is locked down, solid, and the guy is happier than a pig in poop. He has told me that this was the best learning experience of his career. He figured out why some thing that he had previously set up didn't work, how to do it right, and so many other things that he hadn't considered. By all means bring in people who know what they're doing. Vet them. Make sure that the contract includes training you (involving you in the installation process AND building your skills - skills that make you more valuable to your employer). This is an awesome opportunity for your career. You get to implement a 1st class solution, improve your skills at no personal expense to you, and make yourself more valuable to your employer. Good luck!
It's a shame that you have that much computer going to waste.
What about using as a place to put all the illegal mp3's and videos you get from torrents?
This signature has Super Cow Powers
Think about what you're recommending. Now answer this question. What specifically is he hiring an IT pro to do?
I don't work in IT, I don't have a degree related to IT, and I don't even have a certificate outside of a lame MS Office one I got after going through a temp service years ago. My home network consists of 5 computers (plus 2 in the closet, plus 3 I'm currently fixing for friends who are not interested in learning it) with different flavors of Linux and Windows, most dual boot and most have VirtualBox installed. I have a LAMP server (and once an XAMP server) with various CMS installs to play with and a simple address book written in PHP using MySQL. All of it learned from Google and none of it that fubar'd anything in the process of learning. Nothing that I couldn't undo anyway with more help from Google.
So once I had to learn how to go back to the default Nvidia drivers editing Xorg. I learned how to increase memory for PHP. I learned how to do an SQL querry, insert, update, delete. I learned oh so much by going in feet first. Working for a multinational, multibillion corporation that contracts IBM to service their AS/400 I learned how to end other people's sessions. Why didn't those pros learn how to restrict that from me? I'm not in IT, I shouldn't be able to do that.
My Dad who does do contract IT and that I've never seen more than twice a year my entire life taught me everything I need to know. His advice was you can't break a computer with software (except in extreme cases [outside of flashing the bios and even then usually only if you're not reading the instructions] rarely accidentally and generally on old hardware) so if you ever screw something up you will learn more in the process of fixing your screw up than you ever will taking either an outdated class or obtaining a software/hardware specific certificate. In other words the best IT people are curious, patient, and persistent. Certificates, titles and pay-scale are at best secondary and at worse misleading.
For pete's sake my 80 year old grandfather figured out how to transfer 35mm slides to his computer without the help of a professional or my Dad. He's not afraid to Google. Stop trying to scare people into thinking computers are mystical and should only be serviced by the proper wizards. They're no harder to learn than reading is. Heck the submitter already stated he's using it as a backup server so there should be the presumption that he knows how to back things up.
A good IT person understands what he is doing and can easily share that information with any average intelligence person. A bad IT person does not understand what he is doing and can't explain it to someone who's interested.
So Mr. IT professional what EXACTLY do you think is he going to do (considering the question is 'what should he do?') other than increase his own knowledge?
...cause RAID 1 makes a whole lot of sense...lose half the total storage of the array to redundancy. To get 6TB, he'd pay the cost for 4x 3TB drives and only get the storage of 2. Brilliant...
Point your Hot Wheels laptop to disney.com and come back when baby is finished Mac bashing and posts something more constructive.
If you don't need a high end mac server, having one is a liability in various ways; aside from the fact spare parts are expensive, and what will have to happen if it breaks after warranty. You could also consider making the server dual-use.... E.g. have it double as the Boss' workstation.
"I'm the 'IT guy' for an office of about a dozen people. And when I say IT guy, I mean I'm the only one here who can use google well enough to figure out how to make things work. We have a 500GB Mac server with a Drobo with 6TB of storage attached So far all this server does is back up data,
A 6TB drobo is plenty of backup storage. Sell the overpriced Mac server (assuming it's relatively new and sells for a lot) and buy an inexpensive Dell server, as you don't need a MacOS server for backups. You're working backwards --- you don't just buy expensive servers and look for things they can do; your department gets asked to meet technology needs of the business, you determine how to meet those needs, and some might involve providing services that require a server -- there are also some system administration functions (such as single signon, central user management, endpoint policy management) that may require a server.
Your organization should be planning what it wants the IT infrastructure to do, and budgeting and acquiring servers appropriately as required to solve problems and satisfy the needs facing the organization. If you find you actually got equipment not being utilized, then someone screwed up. I've seen people fired for blowing their IT budget on a Mac server, when there was no real justification for why the server absolutely had to be that uber-expensive type, and cheap Linux/Windows servers on the market would serve the file sharing/backup function just as well.
Many small businesses don't need any servers at all, anymore, now that certain NASes can commonly fill the role of file servers. Perhaps a NAS device (or other solution) for backups. Another reason small businesses might have a server is for DHCP, DNS, active directory, and shared applications. Databases used by SMB apps are usually peer-to-peer or something like an access DB hosted on a CIFS file share.
and I want to make it a little more useful. We also have a Filemaker server on it, which I have yet to learn how to use at all, let alone efficiently.
Just because you have a filemaker instance, doesn't mean that using it would be a good choice.
That's a "when you have a hammer handy, everything looks like a nail" thing. Seeing as you don't know how to use filemaker, and have no long term planning for type of use/ ongoing maintenance, and you probably have limited administration knowledge of filemaker - that's yet more reasons to avoid deciding to put that piece of software into production at this point --- you should understand it, be trained on it, understand how it works in detail before you consider creating anything with filemaker and championing it as something the business should rely on.
Why would you replace a Unix server with a Linux server?
Because Linux is free (as in speech, and in most cases as in beer as well). Linux isn't locked into a specific company. Linux doesn't (generally) have DRM. The only proprietary, non-open parts of Linux I can't mess with come from third parties, and even those have free (though less functional) replacements. Linux runs on most common hardware, not just Macs (both licensing and technology). Linux has a number of companies backing various versions of it, not just one company.
Now, of course someone could make up a similar list for OS A vs. OS B regardless of what A and B are. And that's fine, choice is good. But you asked why someone would replace a "unix" (and yes I know that Mac OS X is certified UNIX) server with a Linux server... so there's one answer. Could you dispute each point I made? Sure you could. Any point to anything can be disputed in some way. But the above is why *I* would choose to replace a "unix" server with a Linux server. You asked, and here's one answer that applies to at least one person.
YMMV.
RAID is not a backup solution. RAID will simply increase the reliability. I've had many raid 5 arrays fail and loose everything. There are many ways of backing up data and RAID is not one of them.
I agree. But RAID is a place to start.
There are a zillion GUI front-ends for rsync-based backups for OS X. Most of them are even free. Some of them handle backing-up Time Machine backups (Sparse Image files). Then there are industrial-strength backup systems like the ones from TOLIS (full disclosure: I haven't used these. I just know they exist). But, I think with a 10-person office, you probably can get by with something that is rsync-based (rsync is a very powerful UNIX "file/folder synchronization" utility that has been around since dirt. Rsync is included with OS X. Like all UNIX utilities, it is actually a command-line creature; but as I said, there are MANY GUI "front-ends" for rsync for OS X. Checkout this and this list. Let me know when you get through all those, LOL!
Now, let's talk about what MEDIA to backup to: In this day and age, pretty much the only reasonable thing to backup a hard drive to is another hard drive. Nothing else makes sense, cost and speed wise. You have a 6TB Drobo. What RAID mode is it being used in? Let's say it is in RAID 1. That means it will have 50% of its actual capacity, due to the "mirroring". Ok, so that's roughly 3TB (nevermind the formatting overhead). If it is in RAID 5 mode, the Drobo will have roughly 2/3 of its 6TB (or about 4TB). I'll assume you are NOT running RAID 0, 2, 3, or 4. Nor do I personally like any of the RAID levels above 5, because they are either relatively less safe, and/or have sort of "cumulative" storage and performance penalties as the array size grows. If you are doing a lot of random-writes to your server, then RAID 1 (straight mirroring) will give you the best overall performance, at the cost of less storage overall. See this article for more details than you probably want to know right now.
But, I digress... Let's say you have this running in RAID 1. This means that your Drobo is effectively 3TB. That's very convenient; because the world has 3TB drives now. So, here's what you do: Go and get two (to start) 3TB EXTERNAL drives (preferably FireWire 800 (if the server supports FW800. I'm assuming it doesn't support Thunderbolt). Format these as HFS+ (journaled). Name them the same (but not the same as the Drobo, just for confusion's sake). Now, you effectively have two 3TB "backup tapes" that you can "rsync" your Drobo to.
"Rotate" these at whatever frequency you desire (not less frequency than once per week). Take the "new" backup OFFSITE (Monday evening is easy to remember. That way, you can bring the "old" backup into the office on Friday morning, swap it with the "new" backup, and take it home with you on Friday night when you go home. Assuming your business is an 8-5 M-F type thing, set your rsync "incremental" backups to start late in the evening, every evening, like around 11pm (that way, people leaving late aren't a problem). If all goes well (and it should, because backup-to-harddrive is rarely a problem), your drive should be backed-up by the time you return in the morning. If you want to be extra safe, you can even rotate your drives every day, but that is a lot of wear-and-tear on the power and FireWire connectors on the drives; but is the safest overall. Swapping the drives every day also keeps rsync from having to to a BIG backup the first time the drives are swapped; because it won't have to "catch up" for the whole time the "returning" drive has been "away". But DO know that you probably will start having connector problems in a year or two. Big deal. You can replace the drives every freakin' MONTH and still be money ahead over a tape-changer (and
As a company becomes larger, IT guy becomes a full time role. Eventually you need an IT staff. What percentage of your staff should be in IT depends on your business. But having 1 IT staff member per 10 or so users is a minimum.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
If you have a Mac Mini with OSX Server, you really should be running it as such. There is a great write up regarding the setup for a complete noob here http://www.wazmac.com/servers_network/fileservers/osxserver_setup/osxserver106_setup.htm
Dan. -- So what if it's spelt wrong, nobody's perfect
Yeah, I'm sure a 12-person office has an extra 100k sitting around for an IT guy.
Not all IT staff start at 100k, or work full time.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
I second this, a good small business I.T. consultant/contractor can be hard to find, but if you find a good guy a few hours of his time could save you a lot of headaches. My former boss who had small business specializing in networking for small businesses probably could set everything up for a business your size in a few days.
Yeah, and then nobody in the office has the knowledge and or the ACCESS to fix even the tiniest little thing, and so someone (or everyone!) sits around for a whole day (minimum!) while the 2-person "IT consultancy" gets time to get around to you.
In fact, that's why I ended up doing IT for the firm I worked as an embedded developer for. We had an outside IT firm. But their response times kept slipping and slipping, and I kept getting collared by the secretarial (and other) staff as I walked in the door "Can you fix my printer?" "Can you help me find a file?" "I don't think the backups ran last night." Et frickin' CETERA, 'til suddenly one day it became actual company policy to call me before calling the IT consultants.
Yeah, I know about you guys, and have the battle scars to show for it.
As they say, "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want."
I got more than my share of IT "experience" that way...
Actually... I used to be an on-demand IT guy. I worked for a company that charged on billable hours. When something needed maintenance or a break happened, I would schedule some time to see them and take care of it. When my clients had a need, they'd talk it out with me and our business guy, we'd draw up a quote and then do the work. We'd also take care of necessary maintenance (again on demand).
It's actually a pretty good way to get the IT needs taken care of without needing to spend 100K... Or even 50K... If you're an office of about a dozen or so you could probably get by on less than 10K/year including hardware.
It worked out for me because I had a lot of clients, so I always had work to do... It worked great for my clients because (I like to think) that I did good work for them without costing them their profit margin.
Spoken like a true consultant/thief.
I like the "Would schedule some time" bit. When businesses have IT problems, they don't have TIME to be "scheduled". They need to be back up and running THIRTY MINUTES AGO!
Don't listen to these charlatans. There is a reason why "real" businesses have on-site IT. Do you REALLY think they like paying for those guys to sit around reading Slashdot all day? No; but you don't need the police or fire department all the time, either...
The original poster of this story is performing a VERY valuable service for his company. In fact, I suggest he talks with his boss about increasing his compensation a bit to let his company know that they realize that he is actually performing TWO REAL JOBS now. People don't value what they get for free. Take it from one who knows...
Stonewall and obfuscate until they are willing to hire additional help or give you an obscene raise. Once they recognize your unique ability to set priorities, they will promote you to manager.
Spoken like a TRUE IT "professional". You DO know what "MCSE" REALLY stands for, don't you:
Must Consult Someone Experienced!
Don't listen to this jackass. You're doing what most IT "pros" NEVER do: Admit it when they DON'T know something; and instead just "STONEWALL AND OBSFUCATE"
Did they teach you that technique in Famous IT Professional's School? Or did you just make that one up all by yourself?
You, sir, are why WINDOWS continues to be the predominant business platform.
Let me say it again: STONEWALL AND OBSFUCATE.
I hope they put that on your tombstone. In fact, I wish I knew who your boss was, I'd copy that comment right to him. Then perhaps Human Resources would be having a short, direct chat (i.e., exit interview) with you...
Yep... IT seems fairly easy for a layman until you have a hardware failure due a power outage, and suddenly find out that your daily backups haven't been working correctly for the past few weeks.
Only THEN will many people understand how important IT concepts like UPS battery backup, RAID, and scheduled backup tests are.
Yeah, because there aren't ANY lazy IT people...
http://www.fengoffice.com/web/community/why-is-open-source.php
was in Linux Journal this month.
Its like your own Google Docs.
I'm drunk! also, this website is taking forever to program
How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
First off replace it with a linux server or at least a Windows server
Obviously, you don't even believe that yourself, or you wouldn't have posted AC.
I would add that if it is possible at all, get the "tape" drive slightly bigger than the file storage, depending on file churn even 10% should work (this can mean doing some as simple as not using the entire 3TB available, and instead using 2.5TB).
The extra space should allow the backup to be daily (or maybe even hourly) snapshots (I would guess time machine on a mac for this, though I use pdumpfs which is python I think, so it outta work too).
Where I am, cron runs daily, creating a new folder for the day and setting it read only, the backup itself is mounted, so that somebody can grab previous versions of a file that's been currupted, or accidently deleted.
Where I ab we have 500 GB of files on the server, with a 1TB set of backup drives. They take about 3 months to fill, and one is kept off site most of the time, but periodically synced to the backup drive that stays in, when they fill, new ones are dropped in, and the old ones stored and dated.
The easy user restore (browsing a folder) makes things nice.
Also, I don't know if you were counting raid 10 as a greater than five, but I'm a pretty big fan, in Linux the driver is very cool, allowing for 50% usage of 3 disk arrays, and even with only 2 disks, using the "far" setting I saw dramatic speed-up of reads with very little slow-down of writes vs raid 1.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Why would you replace a Unix server with a Linux server?
Because Linux is free (as in speech, and in most cases as in beer as well). Linux isn't locked into a specific company. Linux doesn't (generally) have DRM. The only proprietary, non-open parts of Linux I can't mess with come from third parties, and even those have free (though less functional) replacements. Linux runs on most common hardware, not just Macs (both licensing and technology). Linux has a number of companies backing various versions of it, not just one company.
Now, of course someone could make up a similar list for OS A vs. OS B regardless of what A and B are. And that's fine, choice is good. But you asked why someone would replace a "unix" (and yes I know that Mac OS X is certified UNIX) server with a Linux server... so there's one answer. Could you dispute each point I made? Sure you could. Any point to anything can be disputed in some way. But the above is why *I* would choose to replace a "unix" server with a Linux server. You asked, and here's one answer that applies to at least one person.
YMMV.
You DO realize, of course, that to him, OS X was FREE, too; because it comes with the machine, right?
And what, exactly DRM were you referring to?
He already HAS a Mac. His employer has already purchased the hardware; so that's a moot point. And Linux's many flavors have been a LIABILITY, not a strength. And it's high-time that the Linux fanbois wake up and realize that the world really doesn't need 10^200 Linux distros. Or even 10^2. Or maybe not even 10^1.
For this guy (not you), OS X is EXACTLY where he should be. He will be able to set up, run, and maintain more services, in less time, and with far less manual reading, forum surfing, and hair pulling than with any other OS. That's not an opinion; it's a fact.
And his mileage will NOT vary.
As has been mentioned many times, you're trying to find a solution for a problem you can't identify. What you need to do is think about you would feel is missing and how much you will miss it in the future.
My professional experiences have all been with companies where the end goal would require massive growth at some point. A twelve person company doesn't need a whole lot. The people working together are usually pretty intimately familiar with each other and data organization isn't very critical. If the long term plan isn't to stay small, but to eventually grow to hundreds or thousands or employees, keep that in mind when examining your needs. When everyone isn't on a first name basis and/or working in the same office, sharing data becomes a chore is not properly done. A wiki (or CMS) is a good thing for a dozen people but of absolute importance to a larger organization. Why not start one now?
Sticking with my theme of eventually having a large organization, the ability to find people is an often overlooked need until it's too late. Consider having a user directory with pictures, contact information and work group data. When doing this, make sure it allows for editing by the user as people are likely to link out to their projects and documents when given the chance. Also, having a single point of management for vital information (like when phone numbers change) means it can be an administrative nightmare.
Forums and blogs! Email is great but it's not always the best way to propose ideas and have random discussions. Forums allow for much better data persistence (usually only an admin can remove a thread) and give people a place to have more "off topic" banter. While I don't personally have much of a use for a blog, many people find them to be useful scratch pads. At the last place I worked, I occasionally updated a blog with tips and tricks, software patches for third party tools and random tech bugs I'd dealt with.
Whatever you do, make sure you have a central point of access. A unified search component (like a search appliance) is key to making sure that, when you have the date, you can find it. People are good at remembering a single point of entry but less so at remembering an ever growing list. All of these resources are useful but, unless you have a simple way to get to them/find data, they won't get nearly the utilization they could.
Lastly, if you do this all on a single host, you're destined for pain. I don't know anything about the Drobo (and I don't feel like looking it up), so I have no idea if it's running in a redundant state. Regardless, the fact that you have a single machine attached means that, if that box has a problem, all of this is for nothing. At the very least, you should get a second machine with a mirror of any resources/sites you create, so you're not left dead in the water if it fails. I'd actually recommend three, so you can have two in a production swappable state and one where you can test new software and upgrades before making them live.
Good luck.
http://www.imagepoop.com/image/3545/Bottle-Opener-on-Computer.html
to code or not to code, that is the question.
We have no idea what you are doing and what the office is doing. If no central database or file access is required, then a server for backup seems fine to me.
Your mac mini has a lot of juice for a tiny little box, and cycles you don't use disappear into the ether. May as well be using it as much as you can.
I really don't know if Time Machine will work well with this situation. I don't understand the underlying technology very well, and it is still getting stability and performance issues worked out. Maybe rsync can make that all magically work out, especially if he uses one of the Time Machine "editors" to make it so the backups of the Time Machine image files don't happen while Time Machine is busy making a new one...
;-)
When Time Machine is in the mix, you essentially have two "competing" backup methodologies operating simultaneously. Again, I really don't understand Time Machine NEARLY well-enough to predict the end of that story...
And as for RAID 10, I also haven't actually encountered it; so I was kinda being "safe" in my recommendations.
we (IT consultants for small-mid sized companies) aren't all like that. In fact doing that in a former life it was my policy to make sure they had the proper access if they chose to utilize it or hire another consultant. After all, it is their equipment - however I did leave them a caveat in the "red binder" I left with them that said "if you don't know what you're doing and insist on doing it yourself without a knowledgable person to do it for you, please research it completely" with a line that said something to the effect of 'fixing a catastrophe that could have been solved with a few keystrokes might cost significantly more'. That said, I left them the option of a VPN they could initiate for remote assistance should they require it (usually moments notice for emergencies was welcomed) sooner than the time it would take for me to travel to them. Only once did certain companies opt to not call me (or someone else) and end up with snafu. After the first time they learned their lesson and either called for help or ask for training on how to fix things themselves. I was a fan of teaching them some of the more routine stuff that didn't require extensive education which was mostly db or more complicated administration stuff.
Bitter much?
He will perform exploratory research on the departments' only production backup server, risking the economic well being of some 24 people. First he needs a development system, once that's in place, I'd suggest either email, website, or database.
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
... install Amahi.
Dozens of apps to use, simple and easy to install.
I'd recommend the expresscd.
http://www.amahi.org/
http://wiki.amahi.org/index.php/Main_Page
AFS supported of course.
You are the rare exception: An IT PROFESSIONAL, rather than a POSER, who relies on (as one poster put it STONEWALLING and OBSFUCATION). I salute you! The IT world needs more people like you; there are already too many Computer Priests!
Especially with the blazing-fast tech market, any self-respecting IT guy should be on the look-out for new developments that will potentially help productivity. Even if some uses turn out to be totally superfluous, the expected return from trying out new stuff is huge.
If you're not getting paid to be the IT guy you're a chump.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
0. Don't even touch Filemaker. It's the bastard pseudo 'database' from hell.
1. Sell Mac.
2. Buy hardware that will run MS Server 2008 + Exchange etc all natively.
3. Use free SQL Server Express or full SQL Server if you really need db services.
Basically, dump evil proprietary hardware and horrendous pseudo db software in favour of industry standard evil proprietary software. Your life will be easier and service provision will be better.
Install a jabber server, put clients on everybody's desktops - we started using it about 6 years ago and its become an essential part of our business.
Obviously you could just use somebody else's IM service, but we're not a big fan of the mystical cloud at our place, and most of our staff are developers so nobody is afraid of getting their hands dirty, so to speak.
you're doing it wrong
If you're using Filemaker in this day and age you are making the same idiot mistake that people using Access are making. If you have legacy data wrapped up in Filemaker that's one thing, although I think it behooves you to extract it ASAP.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
And I say this as an IT guy myself.
You can put together all the fancy features you like. I don't care what they are, what is important is what the business can benefit from.
So you need to do two things:
1. Don't speak to us. Speak to the people in your company who are driving the business.
2. Stop thinking in terms of "clever things I can do with the server" and start thinking in terms of "things I can do that offer a tangible benefit to the business". 99 times out of 100, those things will fall into one of four categories:
a. Bring money in - either directly or indirectly.
b. Save money.
c. Reduce risk.
d. Make life easier for someone else in the business.
B and C are relatively easy. A is seldom found in IT; D often requires people to change the way they work. Getting people to change the way they work is generally very difficult, so unless the benefit is so absolutely vast that even the most deluded, stuck-in-the-mud person would see huge benefits to it before you've even finished explaining your idea, you may well be wasting your time. If you have an idea that offers only small benefits but requires significant changes to how people work, forget it.
Err, RAID1?
Although I disliked your use of all caps, the point is valid that the reason Windows is the dominant paradigm is because there are "certifications" to administer/fix Windows. It's as if my dad, who is a retired mechanic certified as a Mr. Goodwrench, would ever benefit from recommending somebody buy a Ford instead of a GM. He knew that GM products suck...that's where the Mr. Goodwrench part came in nicely, as it provided him a long, productive work life.
Your's is an engineer's answer. Innovators, on the other hand, tend to be driven more by the question "What can we do?" than by "What do we need?", as in Faraday's answer to "What use is electricity?": '"What use is a new-born baby?" The history of technology is full of examples where the major benefits were not even imagined before the technology became available.
Are we talking about potential innovation here? Is this guy looking to invent a new kind of server technology? Or is it some guy who'd be pleased with himself if he learned to set up a wiki on his local server?
Giving an engineer's answer can be helpful if you're talking to someone who's hoping to be an engineer.
Being drunk and having no social skills are hard to distinguish. I bet none of them were drunk.
Just a small note-- there's no such thing as a MacOS server.
Well.. the hardware will probably Linux of FreeBSD just fine.. but dump the Mac server crapola. Mac is a desktop operating system, and so is Windows, and neither one has any place in the server market as far as I'm concerned.
A Doorstop.
Don't waste time your time with Filemaker unless your business needs a database. Do try setting up a wiki for a knowledge base, it is simple and will save you and your company time and money. But as with so many other posters let business do the driving not IT. The centralized auth/auth stuff is more trouble than it's worth for many companies. Put a good post in your knowledge base on password managment maybe with a link to a good keychain wallet utility for the Windows users in your organization. Centralized printing always was a dumb idea. Buy good printer(s) with builtin print server(s) ie. any network laser printer and put the printer names locations in your knowledge base. DNS caching is neat but can be more trouble than it's worth. Read about it first, try it with just two or three machines first and if you roll it out document it in your knowledge base.
$100k?!
Suddenly my nearly $40k seems so small, and I directly support 50-70 faculty/staff in addition to my responsibilities that directly affect a campus of several thousand (I work in an IT department for a college).
bork bork bork!
I have set up a Wiki where I work, we store our staff meeting notes, staff directory, our current forms and templates and also use it to store a procedure manual.
Of the wikis Ive used Dokuwiki seems to be one of the best for such a purpose, light weight uses file storage (not DB) so its easier to manage documents with.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
I never said it wasn't exactly what he needed or suggested he replace anything. I only gave an answer to the specific question of why someone might replace a Mac server with a Linux server. And yes his mileage may vary since he's a different person with different requirements than I, as your own post points out quite well (along with the other very valid points you make).
Get a $400 PC "server". IBM is always selling them refurbished for $200.
Load Linux.
Then you are pretty much unlimited in what the machine can do.
* Backups (though I'd never put backups on a shared machine)
* Firewall
* Proxy
* Content filter
* email server
* web server
* Asterisk/ VoIP server
* DLNA server
* Music streaming server
* Shared folders for the entire enterprise
* CRM server
* document management server
* Wiki
* Project management server (redmine)
And those are just off the top of my head. There are thousands of other uses - literally.
Sell the Mac and consider swapping out the Drobo for a real disk array.
- Use the machine to mine Bitcoins
- Run Seti@home or one of the other BOINC projects
- Gaming server or pirated MP3/movie/series server
Until you know what you are doing is sounds daft to be trying new things before understanding the essentials. Write a list of the things you already need it for and make sure you can look after it for those.
I'lm the IT guy for a small company. Uh how many employess? 70?
Which means everything that plugs into the wall you are responsible for?
Which means they give you no IT budget?
Which means you are expected to play the little Dutch boy and locate rumage sales to scavenge computer parts?
Which means you are running legacy programs that still run on NT 4.0 or worse Windows 98?
Which means the smooth running of the IT infrastructure is soley on your shoulders and I bet they pay you 45k and smile about it.
Here is what you should do. Spend time updating your resume and find another job. Then your company will realize that running the IT Dept. takes money and maybe they won't treat it like a fast food resturant.
Also, the on-demand sorts see a wider variety of stuff than direct employee IT workers, so they are likely to know a variety of ways of solving a problem.
My thanks to macs4all, who reminded me that I left out "rant, insult, and be obnoxious, too." That will get you promoted to IT executive.
You could persuade management to fund some after-hours coursework at your local community college, there are many IT related subjects available.
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
Better to decide what stay online in the event of a drive crash , what only needs to be recoverable in the event of a drive crash or complete failure, and what is disposeable, and set up your filesystems, shares, and backup schemes appropriately. IE in my case:
1) Base system + IMAP folders should stay online and available (if this were a business server, accounting data too). They live on RAID1, are backed up via rdiff-backup to a drive in a hotplug cradle which is rotated offsite.
2) Aperture vault and workstation backups (sparse file iSCSI shares), and stable fileshare need to be recoverable. They live on RAID0 and are also backed up to the cradle drive. iSCSI shares are backed up via "cp --sparse=allways".
3) Scratch files, testing VMs, downloaded movies, etc are disposable. They live on RAID0 but are not backed up in any way.
4) /tmp lives in tmpfs and /var/log lives on a USB stick. This reduces disk writes.
This is a Linux server, but all of this except possibly #4 and sharing iSCSI should be doable on a mac mini server (with firewire drives instead of eSATA cradle)
If I couldn't find a really good use for it, I would respond instead by locking it down and making it a really *good* file server/backup machine. I'd kill any process that isn't directly necessary to file serving and the function of the machine. More programs running == more potential security vulnerabilities, and these are your *backups*.
P.S. you do have offsite backup as well, right? Juuuuust checkin'.
expandfairuse.org
Excuse me, but as a Drobo owner, I take offense to you calling a Drobo a "boat anchor" when it's clearly a jet engine.
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You should offer dedicated hosting! And give us a free spot since we gave you the idea. :p
It might even bring in a profit! Too sweeten the deal, I'll give you, personally, a piece of stock.
There's been a lot of great advice above. A couple of things stand out for me.
1. If you do important things with the server, make sure you rotate a good, encrypted backup offsite at least once a week.
2. Help business drive its needs by enabling proof-of-concept ideas. Innovate and educate. Buy pizza and do a demo.
3. Understand how asking the server to do more can impact it. More memory, disk, and backups mray be needed. Pace, plan, prove value.
The comment about non-production system use is helpful but doesn't buy you a new one. Perhaps a virtual machine approach that can be shutdown at will.
You didn't say anything about what your business is and whether it has any regulatory and compliance responsibilities, such as a medical office or financial agent. These can greatly impact the way you have your electronic information and you should have a sense of your compliance with such laws as HIPAA or FCRA and industry standards like PCIDSS. At the least, you follow standard accounting practices for tax purposes.
install ubuntu linux
That is small, and I doubt you are counting benefits, insurance, 6% half of payroll taxes, etc.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I didn't mean to imply that a salary would be 100k... but I'm sure that salary+benefits+insurance+taxes+other for a halfway competent IT guy would approach 100k.
But you have a good point about not needing a full-time employee.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
thank u 4 so
First off, RAID 5 is utter shit. Go with RAID 10 or RAID 6 if you absolutely can't fit more drives in the system. Secondly, loose describes women, lose is the word you mean. Third, he mentioned backup solutions as well as RAID, not just RAID or backup.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Never used time machine myself either, so I don't really know, I do think pdumpfs would work on a mac anyway though, as it's a pretty simple ruby program.
What I like about our set-up is users can self-restore any state from overnight, going back to the start of the week (and then every-other week for around 3 months).
It saves being involved in a massive accidental delete, or in the case of, oh shit, I need what I had yesterday, or if a file corrupts (Quark Express has had issues with massively linked files in the past for us).
The Linux Raid 10 driver is pretty cool though. Supports lots of nifty things (for example you can say I want 3 copies of all data in the 13 disk array, and you'd get 1/3 the storage of the 13 disks, with 3 copies of all of your data.
After reading baarf, I've always gone with the raid-10 driver in Linux. Storage in the end, has always been cheap for my needs (under a few terrabytes).
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Hi,
I'm in a similar boat. I setup a NAS server to use as a local backup protection (running RAID). However, we also use it to host project wikis, project management databases (via Trac), subversion repositories for code and media files. However, one issue to consider if that if you are caught at work with a folder of music files acquired non-legally, some companies may consider this non-authorized use of company computers and in some cases, you may face disciplinary action - so be warned....
Victor
You've got a good start. You identified what assets you have and what functions your server currently provides. Before you start talking to your company's other stake holders you need to perform an honest needs, wants, and culture assessment. Here's where to go next:
* Is my company willing to spend money, or am I in a "cheap is best" scenario?
* Can I become the IT guy without getting into trouble for reducing my contributions to the company's bottom line?
* What kind of budget do I have (if any)?
* How many man hours per week am I willing to devote to being "that IT guy?"
* Are my current suite of services functioning properly?
* Do I have enough drive space?
* What is the state of my software licenses and my hardware warranties?
* Are we using FileMaker Server? If so, who is developing it and are they willing to keep that role? If we aren't do we need it?
Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
The business I'm at is an NPO movie review business. We have a website that I don't have much to do with, and an already running and functioning filemaker server, neither of which I have anything to do with, except for using them just like any other employee. I came here a few months ago and all the tools that I described were new within a few months and unimplemented entirely. I have no IT experience, and was hired part time to do whatever everybody else doesn't have time to and to take care of local, in office computers. So all I've got going for me personally is that I'm the most computer savvy person in the office (pretty computer savvy--extremely savvy compared to the rest of the office--but hardly a professional) and actually care enough to find solutions to things. Like I said, the reason I'm asking is because I already had those tools laying there, an want to find out the best way to make the most use of what I've got. Preferably simple, yet productive/ease of use type things. eg. a single, shared Address Book so that every single person in the office doesn't have a different one with no way to know whose is most up to date.
drinkypoo runs from a simple question, troll, here http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2225174&cid=36390518 ? Perhaps because it shows you are nothing but a TROLL, & a "ne'er-do-well" that claims he has a "massive ego", but nothing to show for it (delusions of GRANDEUR there, boy?)?? Absolutely.