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Apple Plans New Spaceship-like Campus
itwbennett has a story that might answer the question of what Apple is doing with the billions they have in the bank. "Apple CEO Steve Jobs on Tuesday presented plans for a new Apple campus to the Cupertino City Council. The office building will look 'a little like a spaceship landed,' said Jobs. It will also be just 4 stories tall, is big enough to house all 12,000 Apple employees (with room for growth), and will generate its own energy." Keep reading to see the riveting town council meeting.
Why do I have a feeling that the Steve Jobs story is going to end with him and a large number of followers drinking arsenic-laced kool-aid in an effort to travel to the alien home planet of Klatlun?
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
The circular shape is reminiscent of the UK's GCHQ "Doughtnut" [cryptome.org] building. GCHQ is their equivalent of the NSA, they do sigint for the Queen.
Didn't things end poorly when they tried this on Star Trek: The Next Generation?
Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
Dear Sir, The Kraft Foods Company, holder of the Kool-Aid(tm) name and distinctive marks, believes your insinuations to be tortuously harmful to the value and good public image of the Kool-Aid(tm) brand.
We would ask that you cease and desist your activity, and would like to remind the reading public that Jonestown residents were consumers of "flavor-aid" an inferior imitation product. John Doe III General Counsel
In that video he does not look good.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Please articulate how a torus-shaped building reminds you of a penis in any state of turgidness.
Seems like Steve saw Walt Disney's old video about the true vision of EPCOT and decided to make it happen.
He was in good form, despite looking poorly. The inane comments from the city council members couldn't have helped.
"Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
Honestly I think it's a fascinating project. I agree when he says architecture students will want to come to Cupertino just to see the building.
Sounds very similar to the FoxConn location setup ;p
I like how at 7:06 in the video the artists rendition of the elevation view of the new building includes the obligatory iPod-wearing, air guitar playing youth in the foreground. I wonder if the city council is getting ad revenue for this event.
I won't comment on the aesthetics of the building, but it seems a no brainer for a company like Apple to build a thoroughly modern building like this.
At least I don't see Apple going out of business anytime soon and they can practically write a check for the whole thing. The money being an opportunity cost that will pay back over the longer term with less building energy costs and having everyone in one place / no lease costs for other locations.
Only downside might be if they ever did need to sell it or lease space to others in the future. (this doesn't seem structured like say the Sprint Nextel campus in Overland Park Kansas .. where the buildings were restructured for other companies use after the original occupant didn't need them anymore for various reasons.
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GCHQ-doughnut.jpg
PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
Heaven's Gate took their magic vitamins with applesauce, you insensitive clod.
So at this new facility at the Mindhead campus, do the doors futuristically automatically slide open with a "whoosh"?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Perhaps because a penis (once removed from a person's body) is homeomorphic to a torus?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeomorphism
Palm trees and 8
The Leader is good, the Leader is great, we surrender our will as of this date!
That's like 3% of IBM's total workforce. No wonder Apple has those revenue numbers...
I rarely respond to comments. Also, don't ask for clarifications: a brain and Google are faster, believe me!
Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na Leader!
English is not this
I was expecting -- nay -- hoping to see the onion news logo in the video.
Bot Assisted Blogging
Jobs mentioned using natural gas to generate their energy. This being Apple, I'm a bit surprised they aren't planning to cover the roof with PV panels, or perhaps use the big empty space in the middle of the building to build a solar-thermal tower, with a field of mirrors surrounding the buildings. Maybe throw up a few of the big Wind Turbines to augment the solar.
That would, however, interfere with them making the rest of the campus be greenspace with lots of trees, which they want. Still, at least the PV panels on the roof would seem a no-brainer for Apple.
Looks very nice with the stunning scenery of a forest. Really brings out the building. As we all know though, in reality the scenery of such designs usually gets switched from the beautiful parklands, lakes or forest in to a giant car park with a tree and a puddle in the corner.
It's the surroundings which make a good building into an amazing design, and it's the surroundings which most often fail new builds.
Hopefully Apple can get it right.
I actually don't have a problem with Apple. I've owned an iPhone before I bought an Android (I had a 2G, so it was upgrade time and I felt like something different), and I still own and use an older iBook G4. But a spaceship shaped building just fits in so perfectly with the cult-image, I couldn't help but think it.
there will be unwarranted rectal probing for all visitors?
i KNEW I should have read the new Terms of Service agreement.
I'm no Apple fan, but damn do people elect stupid people to City Council. That Kris lady or whatever doesn't care about anything besides "Free WiFi" [goto 13:19]. That's what she wants for the city. Screw tax revenue, new residents, etc, etc, no, she wants Apple to give her free WiFi. Again, I don't like Apple, but Steve's response was great, basically, (paraphrased), "We'll give you WiFi when you stop taxing us, since that's what taxes are for, public works projects".
The Jonesville compound drank Flavor Aid. Yet everyone always associates this with Kool-Aid because no one likes Flavor Aid.
Flavor Aid deserves to be associated with arsenic. Give them the credit they deserve!
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
All those glass walls and it's circularish shape remind me more of another British-imagined building.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Stupid woman indeed. She probably just wanted to talk to Steve Jobs.
That was an alien lifeform.
Although... The creature WAS rather partial to creating apples out of thin air.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
By joking around that it will look like a landed spaceship, no one would ever suspect that it was a space-time ship ready to take Steve jobs back home where he can be given a new cancer free body and then return with a new range of gadgets to hawk.
I thought the same thing... the level of fawning over Jobs was embarrassing. 1 guy asked a pertinent question: "How will this affect traffic in the city?", and totally let Jobs off the hook. The rest of them might as well have been bowing and saying "we're not worthy".
Only in the world where you are doing seriously unkind things to your penis, man.
You could have said cock-ring and I would have been with you.
But... a penis? No. Ow.
We're not so much a cult per se, more like an autonomous collective of dirty rabble.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
But a spaceship shaped building just fits in so perfectly with the cult-image
Yes, because so many cults have been housed in spaceship-shaped buildings.
The CB App. What's your 20?
If history has any lesion for us it is that when a company decides to build a statement building it frequently coincides with the decline of the company. Mr. Cringley talked about this few months back
http://www.cringely.com/2010/12/edifice-complex/
with the taxes they skillfully avoided paying.
Seriously. As if gouging on electronics wasn't enough, they haven't the heart to pay federal taxes either!
For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.
Everyone thinks it's a building for Apple employees, but it's really a walled garden to put everyone else in. Mark my words, it will be built inside-out.
There is a Fry's in Webster? That's good. At least some modicum of civilization has managed to appear in that pestilential swamp. Perhaps there is hope for those lost souls stuck in the Greater Houston-Galveston Mosquito Breeding Facility.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Looks a lot like a synchrotron to me.
The Jonestown massacre was carried out with Cherry and Grape Flavor-Aid poisoned with Valium, chloral hydrate, cyanide, and Phenergan.
apple for the first time history is copying something to built there own :P
like they introduced ipad, iphone which no one else developed
and now they are copying a damn spaceship
lol :D
iKNEW iShould have read the new Terms of Service agreement
There. FTFY
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Apple doesn't produce tons of products. And they became the industry giant relatively quickly in the past ten years, mainly through App Store purchases. They make a profit on iPhone/iPad/iPod sales, but 30% of the top on all Apps, songs, movies, books, etc. is where it is at. And they don't need massive staff to collect money on other people's products.
Hey, waitaminute! I thought personal computers and teh interarwebs were democratizing forces that made middlemen obsolete. That's a pretty good trick Apple!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
...what those glass-cutting machines were for.
You'd think that by now people would learn how it goes with Apple rumors.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
That's his question? That has to be one of the most meaningless, retarded questions I've heard (this week). What do these people get paid to do?
Wow... now that you mention it... no. We haven't thought about safety at all nor were we planning to during the design and construction... maybe we should push this out to 2020. We'll hire a guy to think about safety. I'm so glad you brought this up. I can't even begin to imagine the disaster this could have been us not thinking about safety. Wow, thanks so much.
I don't see how Jobs doesn't just gag or burst out into maniacal laughter during the session.
Usually when a company announces plans for a whizbang new campus, it's bad news for the stockholders.
I have a friend who many years ago worked for a high tech company that planned a beautiful new Utopian campus. For various reasons they were forced to reduce the size of the project. They decided to house management and marketing at the luxurious new campus and stick the engineers miles away in a big box full of cubicles. As for the engineers, keeping management and marketing out of their hair on a day to day basis easily made up for having to work in a giant cubicle farm. The downside was that management lost touch and began demanding silly things and not taking engineering advice seriously. The subsequent poor performance of the company turned the showcase campus into an expensive fiasco. The campus was abandoned a few years later when the company was forced to sell out to a competitor.
It sounds like Apple is doing the opposite here, bringing people who have to work together in a very nice environment. I'll bet there'll be ideas generated and knowledge transferred on strolls through this campus that wouldn't have happened in a formal meeting that required a drive across town. This really looks like a case for what architects often claim but seldom achieve: making buildings that work for the people who use them.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I hope they have done an environmental impact report for all of the Smug they will be adding to the atmosphere.
Rightly so. They know what's good for them.
As is said several times in the video - if Apple leave Cupertino, it's not good for Cupertino.
Who puts a lake/pond in the middle of the shortest distance across the circle??
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
She was saying stupid things, but you can bet the farm on this: everyone at that council table knows who dad is in Cupertino.
That's no building. I see through your nefarious plan, Jobs. You're building a giant transmutation circle. You'll fill it with 13,000 souls, perform horrifying experiments on them, and then sacrifice them all in order to create a Philosopher's Stone for yourself. You've pushed the boundaries of medical science and human alchemy is all that's left to you now...
Come on, people. Of course I'm not serious. Or am I...?
So they're going to build a new building? Great!
Of course, several questions loom over such a project... and nobody asked him anything related. For instance, what will happen with the tons and tons of refuse generated from the destruction and cleanup of the existing building and asphalt? Since they are going to generate their own electricity, will they fall under EPA rules or will they be exempt since it isn't sold? How much fuel and water will be stored on site - and will it be located next to the apartments?
Of course, the coup de grâce was the comment on the Kaiser cement plant... Yes I'm going to build a freak-ass huge building with tons of cement and glass... but I'd be really happy if you kicked out the cement plant located 3 blocks away. Nice...
I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
The description of the new building reminds me very much of the Panopticon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
From the Wiki article: "The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the incarcerated being able to tell whether they are being watched."
Like this, but with bigger windows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Presidio_Modelo.JPG
Employee? Prisoner? Who's to say?
and Flavor Aid on tap.
Given the massive Apple payroll, Jobs could demand a virgin be presented to him at every full moon, and the Cupertino City Council would unanimously vote Aye!
#StandardOil2.0
If that's your feeling you've been drinking too much kool-aid.
Looks a lot like any number of sports stadiums to me, or the Pentagon with the corners sanded off.
Frank
Its been many years since I visited the Apple campus but I recall a store. Nothing like the Apple Stores around the country today, it was more like a gift shop on steroids. I'm not 100% sure but I think you could get computers there, you could definitely get Apple logo'ed beer mugs, coffee mugs, keychains, etc. Perhaps they could simply put a store on the new campus, although I hope they would supplement the normal Apple Store inventory with the coffee mugs, etc.
Apple kills off orchards to build new headquarters.
Korma: Good
Nope.
There's no profit in that.
Fortnightly sacrifices on the giant altar at the center of his gold-clad city, however, are more likely.
Save him having to fly around to get on organ waiting lists.
I bet there was at least one salesman who regretted, just for a second, not having won that account.
Actually when I read the title my first thought was that they were building a simcity-esque Launch Arco, but unfortunately it's nothing like that.
You say that now, but wait until that building actually takes off.
Unfortunately, they won't be able to untether it from the ground, as they won't have rolled out over-the-air syncing to it before their liftoff date.
I'm certainly not one to defend Steve Jobs, but that is business as usual. You don't want to be forced to move out because you ran out of room and the city wont let you have more.
What is it with companies, especially IT companies that continue to propigate the idea that they need *all* their employees under one roof. of all companies I would think Apple would go "green" by reducing office space, getting more employees to telecommute, and advocate using (gosh) 21st century tools to manage and communicate.
The whole notion that i need to stroll along with colleague in some airy complex to garner ideas or trouble shoot a problem is just bull shit. Scientists collaborate across the world on projects, video conferencing is becoming the norm for many corporate strategy meetings and though no fan of this, IT projects out-sourced are managed from afar. The tools are here today yet management, senior management seems stuck in the 19th century, industrail notion that if I can't see my sla...I mean worker then they must not be producing.
The amount of energy saved just reducing the number of commuters would be amazing. Reducing the cost of commercial real estate for offices would be a saving to companies and another reduce in energy costs. If people need to meet then a smaller office, perhaps one located in a downtown area to help generate local service economies would be available (rent an office). In the 4.5 years I worked from home for a national company I communicated with my boss when needed, he to me since I had a company phone, I lead a enterprise application support across 76 notes around the country, my team was spread over four states, and we had great idea sharing moments without the need to be face to face. We all were productive to the goals, we all were happy for working in a space that made us comfortable, and we all had reduced costs because we did not need to drive to a cubicle, wasting gas, electricity, and energy doing what we could done from home (or a more local environment).
Steve, dude, you lead a 21 century company that has changed the face of data processing and communication, inspiring many people so why oh why do you need to propagate the friggin' Luddite mentality of making people come to the central office. You have become, you've turned your people into the drones from your 1984 commercial. Lead a new paradigm, send them home, don't build.
Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
"My penis is like a coffee cup! Too hot to hold and full of bitter liquid that's oh-so-good.
You can always add some sugar and you're good to go..."
Alright, alright, I'll stop. Enough top0rn for a day.
Apple doesn't produce tons of products. And they became the industry giant relatively quickly in the past ten years, mainly through App Store purchases.
App Store purchases are a very minor percentage of Apple's business. You only have to look at Apple's financial statements to discover this.
They make a profit on iPhone/iPad/iPod sales, but 30% of the top on all Apps, songs, movies, books, etc. is where it is at.
You might want to consult Apple's financial statements before saying something that is demonstrably wrong. In 2010 Apple's total combined music and software sales (including 3rd party and their own) totaled just 11.5% of Apple's revenue. Even if the margins are ridiculous, it still just just a small portion of their business. By comparison Apple's NET profit over the same period was 21.4% of revenue. So even if 100% of the music and software sales was profit (and it is nowhere near that I assure you), it still would account for just half of Apple's profit for the reporting period. Realistically it probably accounts for between 10-20% of Apple's profit. Good business but hardly the backbone of the company.
Oh, and Apple does not keep all of that 30%. In fact it's fairly widely accepted among analysts that Apple doesn't make much money at all on their music sales. Doesn't matter though because the point is to drive hardware sales. Any profit from the iTunes store and App store is just a bonus.
And they don't need massive staff to collect money on other people's products.
It's efficient to be sure but you can also be sure that there is a LOT more overhead than you probably think. Software development cost, accounting, transaction processing, software review, data center cost, sales, marketing, utilities, and more. Apple may take 30% but their actual profit will be significantly less.
Disclosure: I am a certified accountant
my first question would have been if the public would get access to this wonderful new park or would it just be place for the special people - they don't have to allow access as it is private property that i understand, but its a lot more sensible than "give me free wifi"
the second would have been to his response on traffic.. while they are not really increasing the number of people they employ (sorry 20% is a lot for anyplace) but now they have 2.5k in one spot and the rest spread out.. now they will have 12k going to one place every day.. that is going to be a nightmare if not planned for.
but then again these are your council people.. i don't expect logical questions from them.. hopefully the city planner and PE's will point it out when they submit their plans.
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
who apparently doesn't understand computers or arithmetic.
You desperately want to believe that all of Apple's money comes from extortion so that you don't have to acknowledge that they actually build really good products that people really want.
Lookup up how many songs and apps have been sold through their store. Look up the fraction of those that were non-free. Look up (or guess) the average price per. Multiply that by 30% to get Apple's cut. You will arrive at a number across many years far far smaller than the amount Apple makes in profit every year.
And Slashdot was already taken...
poisoned with Valium, chloral hydrate, cyanide, and Phenergan.
Too messy. Steve likes to keep his products simple.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Free Wifi really isn't much considering the millions in taxes that can be paid by these companies... I think Jobs's tax comment was a swipe at Google which doesn't pay much of any tax to Mountain View.
http://searchenginewatch.com/article/2060919/Tax-Assessor-Wants-Google-To-Pay-Property-Taxes-Even-Though-New-Facility-Will-Be-on-Federal-Land
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/google-tax-cut/google-terminal.html
"Posting anonymously to save my karma."
Let your karma burn. Haters gonna hate and there's a lot of haters here on /.. Let the non-haters see there are still some other /.ers that aren't frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of Apple. Post with bonus karma so that it takes an extra hater mod point to knock it down to 0 or -1.
This building is completely not built on a human scale. It places offices and services far from eachother. It's seemed DESIGNED to make people drive.
Take the giant ring and compress it into a 20-40 story dome. Not only would it result in better interconnection between offices, cafeterias, and such, but it would bemore energy efficient (a dome has the least amount of surface area to exchange heat with the outside).
It would use less land, leaving more space for parkland, a farm, solar plant, whatever you want to use it for.
Instead of building a huge fucking parking garage you could place it next to a Caltrain station, and encourage people to use Caltrain to get to work instead of driving.
Hell they could build it in Santa Clara by the Caltrain station there (there's a ton of poorly used space on the north side of it). This is a stop for not only Caltrain (San Jose San Francisco), but also Capitol Corridor (San Jose Oakland Sacramento), and ACE (San Jose Livermore Stockton).
run linux?
the second would have been to his response on traffic.. while they are not really increasing the number of people they employ (sorry 20% is a lot for anyplace) but now they have 2.5k in one spot and the rest spread out.. now they will have 12k going to one place every day.. that is going to be a nightmare if not planned for.
And inter-campus traffic as well. But Jobs is probably going to build an iTube to connect the two campuses anyway. The cars will have automatic seismic adjusting and be encrusted with sapphires and dolphin bones.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Council Woman: So Steve, explain how this benefits the city people, please. Jobs: Sure! Our taxes keep your town afloat! Council Woman: Aight, enjoy your new spaceship.
I agree. I understand that Apple pumps a ton of tax revenue into the city and that this campus is probably a good thing, but there isn't a single question posed about any potentially negative effects that the campus would have. Due diligence, anyone?
Okay, well there were a few questions. But the city council was a bit too friendly toward Apple for my liking.
You're walking wrong.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
During a period of exciting discovery or progress, there is no time to plan the perfect headquarters.
C. Northcote Parkinson
You owe me a new keyboard.
But Jobs is probably going to build an iTube to connect the two campuses anyway. The cars will have automatic seismic adjusting and be encrusted with sapphires and dolphin bones.
Dolphin bones?! Where's my credit card?
... I should have gone with "Dolphin bones?! Pssh. Android has had those since 2.2."
Is that you, Mr. Dell?
The real irony is that Hewlett-Packard destroyed the orchards and that Apple, the company HP rejected in its infancy (Wozniak), is now replacing HP's old buildings with orchards...
Why do I have a feeling that the Steve Jobs story is going to end with him and a large number of followers drinking arsenic-laced kool-aid in an effort to travel to the alien home planet of Klatlun?
C'mon Mods! +5 INSIGHTFUL?!? +5 FUNNY, I'll agree. But what sort of "Insight" was that?
I think Apple needs a building for their hardware people, but the software people should be able to work from home.
I recently switched employers because I had enough of working from home... The irony is that I fully support your views on the future workplace and the "green" approach. It was the lack of human interaction, social learning and exchange of skills, poor communication, high latency, problems took longer to resolve in general, customers are less responsive over the phone etc. We're pretty easy going in Scandinavia, there's no hierarchy or formality. We also have the newest technology and networks in place, so that was never an issue.
Maybe it depends on the people you work with? Working from home was a distinct advantage when I last switched jobs, the competition offered a long commute (by train or car).
If you disregard the amount of energy wasted on commuting [because employers don't have to account for macro-economic and/or environmental effects] large, modern buildings can actually be a lot more efficient than thousands of [less advanced] private homes... You do have to power your own home, network and utilities. The irony is that cities can be/are a lot more effective than a small village, but I would rather live in a village for the social benefits.
We would ask that you cease and desist your activity, and would like to remind the reading public that Jonestown residents were consumers of "flavor-aid" an inferior imitation product.
LOL! I just saw some packages of FlavorAide the other day. Every time I see those, I think of Jim Jones; who incidentally started out here in Indianapolis, Indiana; where I happen to live.
If that's your feeling, you should seriously ask for a sense of humour.
You'd think so; but the OP was modded +5 INSIGHTFUL!!!
Your name appears to be Greek? Appropriately the word Dogma springs to mind; any belief that is held stubbornly, including political and scientific beliefs.
I very much doubt that a large organization cannot do more than two things at a time, while I appreciate the disruptive effect [moving] can have on the whole organization. I do however not agree that it is "a symptom of decay" in general or with regards to this project. There is always "progress" and who knows what will happen in terms of discovery by sheer accident? Perhaps a move will spawn new interesting ideas and concepts in the minds of some key people?
Apple will move, development will continue, who knows what could have been and what will appear?
Should he really? It's not exactly news that the Apple crowd behaves a lot like a cult.
And the Linux crowd DOESN'T???
Huh? As for the stupid free WiFi harping -- this is friggin' Cupertino! Those who can afford to live there certainly don't need to be handed a free luxury / frivolous service and I doubt anyone on the council is less than a millionaire. According to the 2005-2007 American Community Survey of the US Census Bureau, the median income for a household in the city was $118,635, and the median income for a family was $133,098. My response to her would have been along the lines of "you've got to be fucking kidding".
The question was asked because Google is providing free wifi and other projects in Mountain View.
I think we're on the same page on this issue. I assume your comment about being judged has something to do with US-style corporate annual reviews and such? In my part of the world the annual review is nothing more than a nice little chat, we're not actually reviewed according to meaningless numbers, we're more interested in actual results. If the job got done, it was of no consequence where I worked to my [previous] employer.
The question [of how we work] will resolve itself naturally over the next decades as our societies change under economic and environmental pressure. For people like us, who live in the West and work in technology, I believe it will become very normal to telecommute and simply switch network credentials when we change employers. In my previous job my employer even paid me "rent" on my home office and covered my broadband and cellphone expenses.
I don't believe talking about it will get us there, as with most things political it takes too long, but energy prices, transport time/costs and the mutual benefits for employers and employees is bound to make things happen. Nothing talks like money.
>>>generate its own energy
But when the battery dies, they'll need to send in for a replacement iSpaceship.
They make me laugh, WHILE their life remains miserable due to the lack of ability to get a joke.
What's not to like, right?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
That's not a lake, it is the star drive. It also contains a hole to the center of the Earth, don't fall in.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Why do I have a feeling that the Steve Jobs story is going to end with him and a large number of followers drinking arsenic-laced kool-aid in an effort to travel to the alien home planet of Klatlun?
Because you're a true American, who can't wait for RMS to invite you for a nice glass of Flavor Aid.
Fandroids hate facts.
http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=21300%20Gulf%20Frwy%20Webster%2C%20TX%20us&mag=5&ard=1#mvt=s&lat=29.519696&lon=-95.124641&mag=5&zoom=21&q1=21300%20Gulf%20Frwy%20Webster%2C%20TX%20us&gid1=30563989
According to the map, it is a underground moon base built under a forest...
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Well, I suppose a doughnut is a more modern shape than a pyramid...
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
And we would ask right back for you to remember that the Jonestown residents consumed both Kool-Aid and Flavor-Aid on one fateful (and for most of those of us who were not there, memorable) day.
What you remember as fact is nothing but bullshit. How absolutely unusual for an Apple hater. Yeah. Sure.
Fandroids hate facts.
but Flavor Aid is small and weak. It fell so far when it fell in Jonestown. But Kool-Aid is kool, it took the rap for it's dear friend Flavor Aid, because it can take the branding and bad press, but it's weaker friend would never have survived. It's couldn't bear to let that happen. Kool-Aid loves Flavor Aid, why can't you?