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The Science of Lightsabers
sethmad writes "As everyone who's ever passed the GRE knows, there are two major hypothetical operational problems with Star Wars lightsabers. More accurately I should say there were two problems, because I solved both of them."
More accurately I should say there were two problems, because I solved both of them.
What are your patent numbers? :-)
I want some of what he is smok'n
Come on dude share some...
We would call them Torches you idiot!
If you're using a magnetic field to control the plasma then any magnet can still interfere with the light saber. For some reason I was expecting a much more technical article than 'its got a metal rod in the center, tada!'
good. Now solve the next important world's mysteries: who are the 2 chicks in the Internets tubes (except for 2g1c) and how is driving or flying a DeLorean at 88MPH help it to move through time back and forward.
Oh, and if you can go ahead and do this by tomorrow, I have an important meeting I will need to provide this information at.
You can't handle the truth.
You failed to solve #2. You retain the magnetic field, but don't offer a solution to the problem of interference.
This exact design was already described a few years ago by that Science/Discovery channel guy. Can't remember his name.
Come on. Half the comments on this story are probably going to be better than this dork's.
A light saber that used plasma would likely be hot. Hot enough that holding it would get very uncomfortable, magnetic field or no. And if the magnetic field is confining it, how does it get through the porous metal? Without destroying the metal? Where does the plasma come from if it's constantly leaking out? Why do lightsabers require focusing gems? How does a light saber deflect blaster and laser hits that would otherwise melt metal? How can lightsabers be an ancient weapon and the guy who designed them is still living on some planet somewhere?
How much was samzenpus paid to put this piece of crap blogspam on the front page?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
And the handle becomes unfathomably hot. Nice one.
Rearrange title to make a well known phrase or saying.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
What's a GRE and why would passing one allow you to know hypothetical problems with Star Wars tech. I passed a truck full of pigs on the 401 and the only thing I learned is "stay upwind of the pig trucks"
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
This is pure flamebait, the trolls are going to have a field day.
Look, Kid, you might think cloning other people's words and then mocking scientists who have given substantial evidence with your moronish prose is gonna get YOU laid; but unfortunately you're more than mistaken. You are bluntly wrong. Get some math together, and *PROVE* it. Words in Physics are merely for explaining, math is proof.
I'd like to say this was copied from the TV series in which Dr. Michio Kaku presented the exact same "solutions" to those two lightsaber problems (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSNubaa7n9o), but in the same series he also discusses a time travel machine, so who know; he may have copied the ideas from this kid.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
LOL FICTION!
He hasn't solved the most difficult problem, though: the noise. Normally, a light saber like that would be completely silent. How do you let it make those whooshing sounds?
"The collapsible rod extends out of the handle of the lightsaber when activated, much like a high-tech version of a toy lightsaber with a flickable blade. The plasma and magnetic field are energized immediately when powered up"
For the rod to be able to fit inside the handle it would firstly have to be of very, very thin material, otherwise it would simply not fit in there. Secondly, there's not that many ways of making something that could expand and retract in such a limit space without making it very fragile. Combine that with the aforementioned fragile material and these things wouldn't be able to even sustain their own weight; fighting with those would be completely out of the question.
Now, about the magnetic fields: to be able to contain plasma without it leaking these things would have to sport very, very powerful magnetic fields. Even assuming they had the tech to generate powerful enough magnetic field in such a small space how would they limit its range? They would somehow have to be able to generate two magnetic fields in order to protect the rod from the plasma, and to prevent the plasma from espacing, and they'd have to be able to also limit how wide the fields are at the same time. That's again out of the question.
But then again, none of it is real anyways so arguing about it is as pointless as two anonymous people yelling death threats to eachothers on the Internets.
They are shown in several instances to cut metal, what metal is the core made from? Also, if it were bare metal striking bare metal, why does it spark so much on a simple non-sliding hit? If the core is telescoping metal with a sufficient rigidity to take hard strikes, you would figure the nesting pieces would make a saber with a "blade" much thicker near the base, and thinner near the top. Why is it not so?
http://science.discovery.com/videos/sci-fi-science-designing-a-light-sabre.html
Oh come on the answer is trivial - its the force that makes these things work. Every Jedi knows that.
Michio Kaku suggested this very same thing in his book "Physics of the Impossible". You fail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michio_Kaku
but it was a funny read. And, if you had billions of dollars, maybe you could pull off a prototype that would have no real world functionality. Besides maybe a mexican jedi fiesta with jaba the hut pinata's.
I don't remember where I've heard this before, but I've definitely heard it. But there are some very large problems you haven't solved.
First, this is still going to require a large amount of energy. Where does that come from? And if you've got something superheated into a plasma, how do you keep the metal from melting?
Second, as others have pointed out, you haven't actually solved the magnetic-field problem. Basically, any Jedi could have his lightsaber entirely disabled, or even turned back on him, by inducing a magnetic field on the room he's in.
Third, it doesn't explain the part where lightsabers are incredibly difficult to wield, due to weird gyroscopic effects, such that only someone with force-sensitive reflexes should be able to wield them properly. Ok, Han Solo can cut open a tauntaun, but that's a pretty crude motion -- try to swing it around, and if you're not careful, you could end up cutting yourself as easily as your opponent.
Fourth (!), what are blaster bolts, and how does a lightsaber deflect them? It makes very little sense to suppose that a blaster bolt is just some plasma wrapped around a tube in the same way -- that seems awfully complicated compared to alternatives like just firing the plasma as a projectile -- and then, why would they bounce off force fields the way they do, as if they were somehow slowly-moving laser light?
Finally, how do you explain the phenomena in Episode 1... Alright, maybe you want to pretend that didn't exist, but this phenomena is fairly commonly observed and generally accepted as something that it'd be reasonable for a lightsaber to do. Anyway, what about the point where Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are trying to break into a room by slowly melting the blast door with their lightsabers? I suppose the metal rod could be collapsing, but then I'd expect that when you pull it out, it'll have to slowly extend again -- and it also suggests that lightsabers would collapse entirely too easily. If they're made of light, this makes much more sense, but then we have all the same problems as light.
So, cool idea, but let's just accept that Star Wars is science fantasy. It's enjoyable science fantasy, and there's no shame in wanting to be a jedi, but you'll never have a lightsaber. (Also, there's no Santa. Sorry.)
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
WTF, there are two 14 year old kids and this "article" that's complete garbage - it's not even an attempt with high school science.
Geeze!
Yeah, that's what you did.
I have a lightsaber in my pants.
It is nothing short of astounding how many of you idiots apparently think this guy is being serious.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is getting enough energy in a handheld device.to power it for more than a microsecond.
(Dr Kaku's explantion for that was "nano-batteries" )
you say that the metal rods can come into contact with each other. so shouldn't they be able to dent/crack/break each other if swung with enough force? (no pun intended)
midichlorian waste. when yoda says, "luminous beings are we" he's describing how someone is full of glowing damaging midichlorian poop. a lightsaber draws this toxic waste out of a jedi's body like tanuki foot pads, stores it, and focuses it as a weapon. midichlorian poop behaves EXACTLY like a light saber. Problem solved. It's how it works.
btw: do you feel tired? do you not have as much energy as you want? As someone with innate jedi abilities, you really need to take special care of yourself. You are probably full of toxic midichlorian waste. I suggest buying my magnetic rare earth bracelets. may the force be with you.
A professor at Old Dominion University, specializing in Plasma Medicine already beat you to the punch (by about 5 yrs).
http://www.ece.odu.edu/~mlarouss/plasmaMedicine.html
However, the telescoping metal rod is an interesting concept.
For a while I though that Starwars was a work of fiction; as in, made up.
My mistake
Well I wasted 30 seconds of my life by RTFA and the first inaccuracy that struck me:
We don't actually have anything we would call a flashlight.
What Americans call a flashlight we call a torch...
I'm sorry, but any one of my 8th grade friends came up with a similar solution at one point or another...
"Oh gee, there's something solid in the middle containing the laser/plasma/whatever"
Not impressed.
I didn't realise that one actually 'passed' the GRE. In my remote past, I took the GRE and scored about 650 avg., but it wasn't a pass/fail test. There is no question that a low score might get you excluded from the graduate program that you want, but it's not really failing the GRE.
Interesting theories. Please find enclosed my subscription to your newsletter. However, a competing notion asserts that the very name of the lightsaber refers not to its brightness, but to its weight. According to wookiepedia: "Due to the weightlessness of plasma and the strong gyroscopic effect generated by it, lightsabers required a great deal of strength and dexterity to wield..."
You get a score. That's all.
Waste of time link too.
The JEDI (SITH) use their MIDOCHLORANS to channel ENERGY from a PARALLEL universe. The light SABER device is a CONDUIT, not a ENERGY storage MEDIUM.
UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED, ESPECIALLY to COMPUTER BULLETIN BOARDS.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
lightsaber
The lightsaber works by extending a 'Quantum Probability Field' vertically up from a small metal disk. The 'Quantum Probability Field' appears to be a long pole, but in reality it is shaped like an extremely narrow, vertically elongated and oblate 'normal distribution curve'.
At the quantum level matter is constantly blipping into and out of existence. Where and when matter 'chooses' to do this is subject to quantum probability. What the 'Quantum Probability Field' does is to create an area of space vertically above the base-disk in-which the probability of matter blipping into existence reaches almost 1.
Bending probability in this way causes an imbalance that the laws of physics must rectify. This rectification happens at the very edge of the 'Quantum Probability Field'. What we find here is a 'probability trough' - a region of space in-which the probability of matter existing is very close to zero.
So to summarise how the lightsaber produces a blade, it simply generates the 'Quantum Probability Field' which cause matter to exist in the area of space that extends in a long thin beam from the sabre stem. The matter is brought into existence by bending the laws of probability in that region of space. That matter that is brought into existence naturally expands as its introduction into reality causes pressure inside the field. The expanding matter then falls into the probability trough at the edge of the field and promptly winks out of existence.
The lightsaber blade carries no momentum and is virtually weightless. The matter it causes to bring into existence does have weight, however as the blade is moved, the matter itself does not move. It simply winks out of existence in one place and new matter is winked into existence to replace it further along the blade's path.
The matter that the 'Quantum Probability Field' brings into existence is not what cause the blade to cut normal matter. The actual cutting edge of the lightsaber is the 'probability trough' that winks matter out of existence.
So when the blade edge (the probability trough) cuts normal matter it winks it out of existence. This 'missing' matter is then probabilistically available to be winked into existence inside the 'Quantum Probability Field' and thus form the blade itself.
So one way of looking at it is that the lightsaber cuts by winking the matter that it is cutting out of existence at the very edge of its generated 'Quantum Probability Field' and using that matter to then form the blade itself.
In truth, it is not really using the *same* matter. But when matter is taken out of the universe, the universe pumps more matter in to replace it. The 'Quantum Probability Field' simply bends probability space in order make sure that matter is created in the right place (in the shape of a blade).
Why does the lightsaber glow?
Well the matter that is brought into existence is highly energised plasma. Even though the probability trough winks that plasma out of existence as soon as it leaves the blade, some visible light does manage to escape. The probability trough simply reduced the likely hood of matter existing to virtually zero, but not absolutely zero.
The frequency of the energy that 'bleeds through' the probability trough is adjustable by frequency. This is how we manage to get different coloured lightsaber blades.
Although a magnetic field could disturb the generated (created) plasma, such a disturbance would have no effect on the blade itself. Remember the blade is actually just the field. So if a magnet were to push the plasma out of that field then that plasma would simply be winked out of existence by the quantum probability trough and thus instantly replaced by newly created plasma back inside the blade.
Then there is the matter of why a lightsaber blade will stop another lightsaber blade. Well, at close proximity, the quantum probability fields strongly repel one another. The repulsion between two fields is barely measurable at a distance of about one centimetre but quickly rises to virtually infinite on contact.
This geeks has never used a blowtorch, if he had, he would know that plasma such as that also emits light in the UV range and would give the user sunburns.
Then there's the obvious issue of heating up the handle.
And for the Nobel Prize: how do you shape the magnetic field correctly without using SW physics?
I once had a discussion about light sabers with a Olympic fencing gold medalist. His job was sword fighting and his main gripe with light sabers (which was not addressed in this article) was that since the blade is made of light, it has no weight and thus the speed of your strikes is not limited by the blade in any way, only by how fast you can manipulate the handle. In his opinion (and mine) this would make saber duels quite short indeed.
You are debating this tiny kids silly answer of there being a metal rod inside when there can't be one inside from the fiction that came up with the idea.
This kid think he is so smart but forgets to actually read the material where the lightsaber originated. Whatever the lightsaber is, it is a "X" that is focussed through crystals, uses very little if any power if the blade is not used in combat, behaves as a solid with immense heat on contact but no radiation. That is what the fiction of the movies have created. Books and games have added on to it but regarless of what lore you use, if you want to explain fiction, you got to respect the lore.
It don't matter how you could create something LIKE a lightsaber, unless you replicate that, it is not a lightsaber.
This kid basically thinks Falco the Dragon is an open plane, sure you can sit on an open plane and fly but that is not what Falco is.
When a kid fails comprehensive reading of a trashy "sci-fi" story, you know a career flipping burgers is just going to be a dream forever as he sweaps out astrays at restaurants... oh wait, you can't smoke in restaurants any more? Oh well, so much for this kids future.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
... a fantasy created by a guy who went to film school, and who never had a single class in physics or engineering!
You can't "explain" fiction by adding your own fiction. IF you want to play the game of debating a fictional universe, you got to accept that universe as it is.
Lightsabers are for most of the lore of Star Wars ordinary weapons that anyone can use. However, since blasters do exist ONLY someone skilled enough to deflect incoming blaster shots (not laser shots) would survive long enough to make any use of it.
Once you can make use of the lightsaber to deflect incoming shots it becomes a valuable weapon with some sense behind it. It is supposed to be far less energy consuming then blasters, can be used in more ways, and a blaster doesn't help you deal with incoming fire.
Respect the lore or don't bother.
Retconning the grand-parents gibberish is called and it lead to mideclorians or whatever they were called. I
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Another individual that thinks all the science we can ever know has been discovered. I'm not saying Lightsabers are possible or practical, but he based his entire write up on very simple physics and doesn't bother to even theorize.
The legend of a "flaming sword" has been around for thousands of years. The Cherub posted at the entrance to the Garden of Eden as a guard to the Tree of Life had a "flaming sword that turned in every direction." And we all know Genesis is literal, true history, right? I think a lightsaber is entirely possible. Think about how super-heated plasma and non-magnetic force fields would behave if they actually existed in a 4th spatial dimension and how it would appear to us if it intersected our 3 dimensional realm. I don't "think outside the box." My box just happens to have 10 dimensions. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Liam Neeson thought that it was all "will power or something" until they told him during the making of "The Phantom Menace" that "No, there is a switch right here. See?".
Can't seem to find the video of that though.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
When I was younger (and nerdier) I once proposed a similar but more sensible version using in-universe technology that was well understood by Starwars fans: force fields. Obviously, starships have shields that keep asteroids, debris, weapons and projectiles from damaging them. Similarly, speeders and various devices apply forces at a distance to hover and float. Why can't this technology be used to harness a plasma field as a cutting device?
Because force fields are just as improbable as light sabers and for a lot of the same reasons. Force fields are more widely employed in sci-fi but that doesn't make them any closer to the reality we actually live in.
All I really know is waving it around near your body is a good way to lose parts of your body.
I always thought it was funny, that jedi and sith would do flips while holding one. If it is a plasma jet in a magnetic field, it is still going to produce a lot of heat, and that heat will rise. Doing a flip while holding one is probably a good way to get a third degree burn...
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Wouldn't a metal rod in the middle mean that it is possible to bend the lightsaber? Or are we assuming this is some super metal? Maybe the light in the Star Wars galaxy is made of stronger stuff than our light?
"One can not truly appreciate Shakespeare until you have heard it in it's original Klingon" -Star Trek
the 3 way battle with Obi wan, Qui gon and Darth Maul was a scene for the ages.
I gladly sat through 2 hours of poop for 4 minutes of electricity!
Number of working light sabers that exist: 0
Damn. Wish I'd filled out a grant application to get funding to study that for 8 years first. Oh well.
So the plasma can easily penetrate anything - except the material that contains it?
Link to a Sci Fi Science episode where they evaluate the design of a lightsaber using components available today. Some other episodes have related topics discussed in the comments.
In the program Science : Physics of the impossible http://science.discovery.com/videos/sci-fi-science-designing-a-light-sabre.html
You didn't solve anything that has not already been stated. Michio Kaku dedicated a whole episode of "Physics of the Impossible" to the creation of a plausible light saber,Dipshit,
as others have stated. Where is the power supply? To generate and maintain the plasma would require hundreds of millions of kilowatts. And then there's the plasma itself. Plasma burns at an electron temperature of thousands of degrees Celsius. So it would be a little more that "uncomfortable". You wouldn't be able to be anywhere near it not to mention, even look at it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T819usZLQtE&feature=channel_video_title
I wonder why Star Wars didn't have any of these guys.
How does it feel to be a liar with pants constantly on fire?
okay...the plasma is enclosed in metal? So why, during a light saber fight, do they go VVVT, VVVVT against each other, instead of CLANK, CLANK?
This article is mostly lifted from the great book "Physics of the Impossible" by Michio Kaku. If you want a more in-depth look at the possible physics behind light-sabers, check it out. It is written for non-physicists, and covers possible future solutions for technology popular in science fiction, including tractor beams, force fields, teleportation, etc.
Next on his list--proving the plausibility of armoires that are wormholes to vast parallel universes where the law of physics is christian allegory.
Star wars is a fantasy saga. Thinking of the science of lightsaber is like thinking about the biology of fire breathing dragon (or breathing dragon). You can make any shit up since we are speaking of MAGICAL entities (yes a light saber is magical, there is a reason star wars is fantasy and not science fiction liek star trek).
This is pathetic for even Slashdot. You're actually taking a submission for someone who's passed the "GRE" (sorry, but we're not really talking Mensa now are we?) who says that they've "solved" the puzzle of how a freakin movie special effect works.
Really?
Let me explain: This is not a historical documentary. This is a movie. The actors use a prop, then special effects people paint over it and guys with beards make noises when the props move and touch (because "clack" doesn't sound cool). Then we pay to go see and check our brains in at the door. Light sabers don't exist. If you want to post something stupid like this, do it on a Starwars fanboi site.
Duh you guys,
The energy comes from plugging it in a ZPM! ...oh ehhh right I knew that.
Reading this article I was strongly reminded of a Star Wars fan film I came across some years ago. To Know a Jedi follows a bunch of Star Wars fans who decide to try to make their own light sabre. Somewhat to their surprise they succeed, which gets them wondering; how much else of the Jedi mysticism is true?
The film is a full length movie and takes the unusual step of giving Star Wars a serious treatment in a real life setting (as opposed to "long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away"). It's made by a bunch of film students on a low budget, but is put together pretty well. Definitely worth a look.
Science Fiction, which Star Wars is not, and Science Fantasy, which Star Wars is. The first is written from the premise that these things are possible, we just can't do them with current tech. The second is written for the purpose of a 'good' story with something flashy and amazing. This effort of reverse engineering is pointless, because it was never engineered in the first place, not even in Lucas' head.
I always assumed (based on the original 3 movies...in MY world, those are the Star Wars universe :) that the light saber was just a different take on the common blaster. like a swordsman looks down on a gun (no skill needed, just point, runs out of ammo, mechanically wears out, etc.), The Jedis look down on blasters. Anyone with that level of skill wants a weapon that extends and compliments that skill instead of a machine that does your work for you. . I didn't need the saber to be a special unknown technology to be unique. The comment in the 3rd movie about his skills being complete worried me some, but I figure that just shows you've been motivated enough to figure out how to make a weapon that fits your skills, and since only Jedi's get irritated at blasters for being crude and limited, all the sabers are hand-made on a one by one basis. Technology was always background in the first 3 movies, it was assumed everyone COULD build those things, but only some people were interested in actually getting into the details of 'em (i.e. grunt work).
The light saber wasn't special by itself until the later 3 movies, which by then Lucas was so in love with his genius of scifi, no one could tell him to leave it be. His ideas of what the story SHOULD have been was always naive in my opinion....been done before and done better.
AB HOC POSSUM VIDERE DOMUM TUUM
There used to be a website by Robert Brown that had some pretty in-depth speculation on how Lightsabers could work. Unfortunately, it went down a long time ago. The plasma theory was dismissed pretty early on.
From my saves of the site, the most interesting theory went as follows:
MODEL SIX: virtual light produced from a spinning field surface
The idea & physics behind, this model supplied by the incredible Mr Albert Forge.
This model is similar to model five, but is FAR more solidly based in REAL physics, and is a FAR better match for the observed sabre (and blaster) behaviours! It provides a theoretical answer to ''where does the 'stuff' of the blade come from'' *AND* actually NEEDS both a fields AND rotation!
According to astrophysicist Yakov Borisovich Zel'dovich, a rapidly spinning conductor will cause the creation of virtual particle radiation at its surface. Particle production is controlled by the charge, angular velocity (of rotation) and radius of this charged conductor.
If we imagine a rod shaped charged field of atomic-scale cross-section, which is superconducting and rotating at near-lightspeed, then charge regulation becomes the control for the particle emission type and quantity. Such charged fields would tend to repel one-another (if they are of like polarity), which means the blades would BLOCK one another.
NOTE: a sabre would have to be built carefully and tuned correctly! A badly adjusted sabre would subject its user (and everyone in range) with considerable amounts of gamma radiation!.
The glow of the sabre blade consists of virtual-photons energised by the rotating field into real photons ... virtual light make real! The opaque 'thumb-thick' blade shape may be a swirl of ionised atmospheric particles (the AIR) drawn in and swirling about the core. When you IONISE a gas, you actually have a PLASMA (as it is meant by terrestrial physics) ... and this would glow JUST LIKE A FLUORESCENT TUBE (which is ALSO a plasma!) ... BUT this thumb-thick plasma zone is merely a by-product ... the REAL cutting is performed by minuscule core of the true blade ... leaving almost microscopically thin cuts. (The blade would STILL glow fiercely in even in a vacuum, as it throws off 'virtual photons - made real' ... but the thumb-thick core may not be visible.)
Such a tight rapidly spinning charged superconducting field would rend (tear) through most matter by stripping off electrons which bind atoms together. The ionised matter about the 'cut', as well as field-excited atomic movement in the localized area of the 'cut', would mimic great point-of-contact heat. A wound to a soft-tissue organic being would appear to be a microscopically thin BURN - and such a wound would usually tend to be cauterised (depending on how slowly the blade passed through - a large blood vessel cut too quickly may not be sufficiently 'burned' to cauterise).
Dense metals which have loosely bound electrons (which are free to wander about their lattice structure) would be more resistant to cutting. The 'atom stripping' effect would take a little longer to cut through, because such materials have more electrons 'to spare' before their lattice structure becomes 'torn'. Metals are also more highly conductive, and the localized 'heat' effects are minimized because the heat is carried away and dispersed through the material more quickly.
This means that even though with varying amounts of effort, a lightsabre could cut through virtually anything, some materials would offer more resistance to a sabre blade, and therefore we can now understand how Lord Vader's armour was able to ward off most of Luke's glancing blow, savi
Light sabres can't be based on light because photons follow the rules of Bose-Einstein statistics, where any number of particles can occupy the same quantum state. If they were some particle that followed the Pauli exclusion principle, and Fermi-Dirac statistics, such as electrons, then one could saturate the quantum states, and prevent another electron from being forced into that location. The electrons of normal matter would be displaced by the light sabre, chemical bonds would break, and matter would dissolve against its "blade". The only problem is filling all possible quantum states with electrons, within an electric and magnetic field strong enough to hold them...
I'm glad I scanned the thread before I posted, for a change. I'm learning.
It does sort of hurt the credibility of TFA.