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The Science of Lightsabers
sethmad writes "As everyone who's ever passed the GRE knows, there are two major hypothetical operational problems with Star Wars lightsabers. More accurately I should say there were two problems, because I solved both of them."
More accurately I should say there were two problems, because I solved both of them.
What are your patent numbers? :-)
I want some of what he is smok'n
Come on dude share some...
We would call them Torches you idiot!
If you're using a magnetic field to control the plasma then any magnet can still interfere with the light saber. For some reason I was expecting a much more technical article than 'its got a metal rod in the center, tada!'
good. Now solve the next important world's mysteries: who are the 2 chicks in the Internets tubes (except for 2g1c) and how is driving or flying a DeLorean at 88MPH help it to move through time back and forward.
Oh, and if you can go ahead and do this by tomorrow, I have an important meeting I will need to provide this information at.
You can't handle the truth.
You failed to solve #2. You retain the magnetic field, but don't offer a solution to the problem of interference.
This exact design was already described a few years ago by that Science/Discovery channel guy. Can't remember his name.
Come on. Half the comments on this story are probably going to be better than this dork's.
A light saber that used plasma would likely be hot. Hot enough that holding it would get very uncomfortable, magnetic field or no. And if the magnetic field is confining it, how does it get through the porous metal? Without destroying the metal? Where does the plasma come from if it's constantly leaking out? Why do lightsabers require focusing gems? How does a light saber deflect blaster and laser hits that would otherwise melt metal? How can lightsabers be an ancient weapon and the guy who designed them is still living on some planet somewhere?
How much was samzenpus paid to put this piece of crap blogspam on the front page?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Rearrange title to make a well known phrase or saying.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
What's a GRE and why would passing one allow you to know hypothetical problems with Star Wars tech. I passed a truck full of pigs on the 401 and the only thing I learned is "stay upwind of the pig trucks"
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
I'd like to say this was copied from the TV series in which Dr. Michio Kaku presented the exact same "solutions" to those two lightsaber problems (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSNubaa7n9o), but in the same series he also discusses a time travel machine, so who know; he may have copied the ideas from this kid.
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LOL FICTION!
He hasn't solved the most difficult problem, though: the noise. Normally, a light saber like that would be completely silent. How do you let it make those whooshing sounds?
"The collapsible rod extends out of the handle of the lightsaber when activated, much like a high-tech version of a toy lightsaber with a flickable blade. The plasma and magnetic field are energized immediately when powered up"
For the rod to be able to fit inside the handle it would firstly have to be of very, very thin material, otherwise it would simply not fit in there. Secondly, there's not that many ways of making something that could expand and retract in such a limit space without making it very fragile. Combine that with the aforementioned fragile material and these things wouldn't be able to even sustain their own weight; fighting with those would be completely out of the question.
Now, about the magnetic fields: to be able to contain plasma without it leaking these things would have to sport very, very powerful magnetic fields. Even assuming they had the tech to generate powerful enough magnetic field in such a small space how would they limit its range? They would somehow have to be able to generate two magnetic fields in order to protect the rod from the plasma, and to prevent the plasma from espacing, and they'd have to be able to also limit how wide the fields are at the same time. That's again out of the question.
But then again, none of it is real anyways so arguing about it is as pointless as two anonymous people yelling death threats to eachothers on the Internets.
They are shown in several instances to cut metal, what metal is the core made from? Also, if it were bare metal striking bare metal, why does it spark so much on a simple non-sliding hit? If the core is telescoping metal with a sufficient rigidity to take hard strikes, you would figure the nesting pieces would make a saber with a "blade" much thicker near the base, and thinner near the top. Why is it not so?
http://science.discovery.com/videos/sci-fi-science-designing-a-light-sabre.html
Michio Kaku suggested this very same thing in his book "Physics of the Impossible". You fail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michio_Kaku
but it was a funny read. And, if you had billions of dollars, maybe you could pull off a prototype that would have no real world functionality. Besides maybe a mexican jedi fiesta with jaba the hut pinata's.
I don't remember where I've heard this before, but I've definitely heard it. But there are some very large problems you haven't solved.
First, this is still going to require a large amount of energy. Where does that come from? And if you've got something superheated into a plasma, how do you keep the metal from melting?
Second, as others have pointed out, you haven't actually solved the magnetic-field problem. Basically, any Jedi could have his lightsaber entirely disabled, or even turned back on him, by inducing a magnetic field on the room he's in.
Third, it doesn't explain the part where lightsabers are incredibly difficult to wield, due to weird gyroscopic effects, such that only someone with force-sensitive reflexes should be able to wield them properly. Ok, Han Solo can cut open a tauntaun, but that's a pretty crude motion -- try to swing it around, and if you're not careful, you could end up cutting yourself as easily as your opponent.
Fourth (!), what are blaster bolts, and how does a lightsaber deflect them? It makes very little sense to suppose that a blaster bolt is just some plasma wrapped around a tube in the same way -- that seems awfully complicated compared to alternatives like just firing the plasma as a projectile -- and then, why would they bounce off force fields the way they do, as if they were somehow slowly-moving laser light?
Finally, how do you explain the phenomena in Episode 1... Alright, maybe you want to pretend that didn't exist, but this phenomena is fairly commonly observed and generally accepted as something that it'd be reasonable for a lightsaber to do. Anyway, what about the point where Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are trying to break into a room by slowly melting the blast door with their lightsabers? I suppose the metal rod could be collapsing, but then I'd expect that when you pull it out, it'll have to slowly extend again -- and it also suggests that lightsabers would collapse entirely too easily. If they're made of light, this makes much more sense, but then we have all the same problems as light.
So, cool idea, but let's just accept that Star Wars is science fantasy. It's enjoyable science fantasy, and there's no shame in wanting to be a jedi, but you'll never have a lightsaber. (Also, there's no Santa. Sorry.)
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is getting enough energy in a handheld device.to power it for more than a microsecond.
(Dr Kaku's explantion for that was "nano-batteries" )
What if the telescoping core and handle are separated by a layer of ceramic insulation?
What if the handle was also actively cooled?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
midichlorian waste. when yoda says, "luminous beings are we" he's describing how someone is full of glowing damaging midichlorian poop. a lightsaber draws this toxic waste out of a jedi's body like tanuki foot pads, stores it, and focuses it as a weapon. midichlorian poop behaves EXACTLY like a light saber. Problem solved. It's how it works.
btw: do you feel tired? do you not have as much energy as you want? As someone with innate jedi abilities, you really need to take special care of yourself. You are probably full of toxic midichlorian waste. I suggest buying my magnetic rare earth bracelets. may the force be with you.
For a while I though that Starwars was a work of fiction; as in, made up.
My mistake
Well I wasted 30 seconds of my life by RTFA and the first inaccuracy that struck me:
We don't actually have anything we would call a flashlight.
What Americans call a flashlight we call a torch...
The JEDI (SITH) use their MIDOCHLORANS to channel ENERGY from a PARALLEL universe. The light SABER device is a CONDUIT, not a ENERGY storage MEDIUM.
UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED, ESPECIALLY to COMPUTER BULLETIN BOARDS.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
lightsaber
The lightsaber works by extending a 'Quantum Probability Field' vertically up from a small metal disk. The 'Quantum Probability Field' appears to be a long pole, but in reality it is shaped like an extremely narrow, vertically elongated and oblate 'normal distribution curve'.
At the quantum level matter is constantly blipping into and out of existence. Where and when matter 'chooses' to do this is subject to quantum probability. What the 'Quantum Probability Field' does is to create an area of space vertically above the base-disk in-which the probability of matter blipping into existence reaches almost 1.
Bending probability in this way causes an imbalance that the laws of physics must rectify. This rectification happens at the very edge of the 'Quantum Probability Field'. What we find here is a 'probability trough' - a region of space in-which the probability of matter existing is very close to zero.
So to summarise how the lightsaber produces a blade, it simply generates the 'Quantum Probability Field' which cause matter to exist in the area of space that extends in a long thin beam from the sabre stem. The matter is brought into existence by bending the laws of probability in that region of space. That matter that is brought into existence naturally expands as its introduction into reality causes pressure inside the field. The expanding matter then falls into the probability trough at the edge of the field and promptly winks out of existence.
The lightsaber blade carries no momentum and is virtually weightless. The matter it causes to bring into existence does have weight, however as the blade is moved, the matter itself does not move. It simply winks out of existence in one place and new matter is winked into existence to replace it further along the blade's path.
The matter that the 'Quantum Probability Field' brings into existence is not what cause the blade to cut normal matter. The actual cutting edge of the lightsaber is the 'probability trough' that winks matter out of existence.
So when the blade edge (the probability trough) cuts normal matter it winks it out of existence. This 'missing' matter is then probabilistically available to be winked into existence inside the 'Quantum Probability Field' and thus form the blade itself.
So one way of looking at it is that the lightsaber cuts by winking the matter that it is cutting out of existence at the very edge of its generated 'Quantum Probability Field' and using that matter to then form the blade itself.
In truth, it is not really using the *same* matter. But when matter is taken out of the universe, the universe pumps more matter in to replace it. The 'Quantum Probability Field' simply bends probability space in order make sure that matter is created in the right place (in the shape of a blade).
Why does the lightsaber glow?
Well the matter that is brought into existence is highly energised plasma. Even though the probability trough winks that plasma out of existence as soon as it leaves the blade, some visible light does manage to escape. The probability trough simply reduced the likely hood of matter existing to virtually zero, but not absolutely zero.
The frequency of the energy that 'bleeds through' the probability trough is adjustable by frequency. This is how we manage to get different coloured lightsaber blades.
Although a magnetic field could disturb the generated (created) plasma, such a disturbance would have no effect on the blade itself. Remember the blade is actually just the field. So if a magnet were to push the plasma out of that field then that plasma would simply be winked out of existence by the quantum probability trough and thus instantly replaced by newly created plasma back inside the blade.
Then there is the matter of why a lightsaber blade will stop another lightsaber blade. Well, at close proximity, the quantum probability fields strongly repel one another. The repulsion between two fields is barely measurable at a distance of about one centimetre but quickly rises to virtually infinite on contact.
I once had a discussion about light sabers with a Olympic fencing gold medalist. His job was sword fighting and his main gripe with light sabers (which was not addressed in this article) was that since the blade is made of light, it has no weight and thus the speed of your strikes is not limited by the blade in any way, only by how fast you can manipulate the handle. In his opinion (and mine) this would make saber duels quite short indeed.
You are debating this tiny kids silly answer of there being a metal rod inside when there can't be one inside from the fiction that came up with the idea.
This kid think he is so smart but forgets to actually read the material where the lightsaber originated. Whatever the lightsaber is, it is a "X" that is focussed through crystals, uses very little if any power if the blade is not used in combat, behaves as a solid with immense heat on contact but no radiation. That is what the fiction of the movies have created. Books and games have added on to it but regarless of what lore you use, if you want to explain fiction, you got to respect the lore.
It don't matter how you could create something LIKE a lightsaber, unless you replicate that, it is not a lightsaber.
This kid basically thinks Falco the Dragon is an open plane, sure you can sit on an open plane and fly but that is not what Falco is.
When a kid fails comprehensive reading of a trashy "sci-fi" story, you know a career flipping burgers is just going to be a dream forever as he sweaps out astrays at restaurants... oh wait, you can't smoke in restaurants any more? Oh well, so much for this kids future.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
... a fantasy created by a guy who went to film school, and who never had a single class in physics or engineering!
You can't "explain" fiction by adding your own fiction. IF you want to play the game of debating a fictional universe, you got to accept that universe as it is.
Lightsabers are for most of the lore of Star Wars ordinary weapons that anyone can use. However, since blasters do exist ONLY someone skilled enough to deflect incoming blaster shots (not laser shots) would survive long enough to make any use of it.
Once you can make use of the lightsaber to deflect incoming shots it becomes a valuable weapon with some sense behind it. It is supposed to be far less energy consuming then blasters, can be used in more ways, and a blaster doesn't help you deal with incoming fire.
Respect the lore or don't bother.
Retconning the grand-parents gibberish is called and it lead to mideclorians or whatever they were called. I
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The legend of a "flaming sword" has been around for thousands of years. The Cherub posted at the entrance to the Garden of Eden as a guard to the Tree of Life had a "flaming sword that turned in every direction." And we all know Genesis is literal, true history, right? I think a lightsaber is entirely possible. Think about how super-heated plasma and non-magnetic force fields would behave if they actually existed in a 4th spatial dimension and how it would appear to us if it intersected our 3 dimensional realm. I don't "think outside the box." My box just happens to have 10 dimensions. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Liam Neeson thought that it was all "will power or something" until they told him during the making of "The Phantom Menace" that "No, there is a switch right here. See?".
Can't seem to find the video of that though.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
When I was younger (and nerdier) I once proposed a similar but more sensible version using in-universe technology that was well understood by Starwars fans: force fields. Obviously, starships have shields that keep asteroids, debris, weapons and projectiles from damaging them. Similarly, speeders and various devices apply forces at a distance to hover and float. Why can't this technology be used to harness a plasma field as a cutting device?
Because force fields are just as improbable as light sabers and for a lot of the same reasons. Force fields are more widely employed in sci-fi but that doesn't make them any closer to the reality we actually live in.
All I really know is waving it around near your body is a good way to lose parts of your body.
I always thought it was funny, that jedi and sith would do flips while holding one. If it is a plasma jet in a magnetic field, it is still going to produce a lot of heat, and that heat will rise. Doing a flip while holding one is probably a good way to get a third degree burn...
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Wouldn't a metal rod in the middle mean that it is possible to bend the lightsaber? Or are we assuming this is some super metal? Maybe the light in the Star Wars galaxy is made of stronger stuff than our light?
"One can not truly appreciate Shakespeare until you have heard it in it's original Klingon" -Star Trek
Number of working light sabers that exist: 0
Damn. Wish I'd filled out a grant application to get funding to study that for 8 years first. Oh well.
Link to a Sci Fi Science episode where they evaluate the design of a lightsaber using components available today. Some other episodes have related topics discussed in the comments.
In the program Science : Physics of the impossible http://science.discovery.com/videos/sci-fi-science-designing-a-light-sabre.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T819usZLQtE&feature=channel_video_title
I wonder why Star Wars didn't have any of these guys.
How does it feel to be a liar with pants constantly on fire?
This article is mostly lifted from the great book "Physics of the Impossible" by Michio Kaku. If you want a more in-depth look at the possible physics behind light-sabers, check it out. It is written for non-physicists, and covers possible future solutions for technology popular in science fiction, including tractor beams, force fields, teleportation, etc.
Next on his list--proving the plausibility of armoires that are wormholes to vast parallel universes where the law of physics is christian allegory.
Science Fiction, which Star Wars is not, and Science Fantasy, which Star Wars is. The first is written from the premise that these things are possible, we just can't do them with current tech. The second is written for the purpose of a 'good' story with something flashy and amazing. This effort of reverse engineering is pointless, because it was never engineered in the first place, not even in Lucas' head.
I always assumed (based on the original 3 movies...in MY world, those are the Star Wars universe :) that the light saber was just a different take on the common blaster. like a swordsman looks down on a gun (no skill needed, just point, runs out of ammo, mechanically wears out, etc.), The Jedis look down on blasters. Anyone with that level of skill wants a weapon that extends and compliments that skill instead of a machine that does your work for you. . I didn't need the saber to be a special unknown technology to be unique. The comment in the 3rd movie about his skills being complete worried me some, but I figure that just shows you've been motivated enough to figure out how to make a weapon that fits your skills, and since only Jedi's get irritated at blasters for being crude and limited, all the sabers are hand-made on a one by one basis. Technology was always background in the first 3 movies, it was assumed everyone COULD build those things, but only some people were interested in actually getting into the details of 'em (i.e. grunt work).
The light saber wasn't special by itself until the later 3 movies, which by then Lucas was so in love with his genius of scifi, no one could tell him to leave it be. His ideas of what the story SHOULD have been was always naive in my opinion....been done before and done better.
AB HOC POSSUM VIDERE DOMUM TUUM
Hang on. "Hundreds of Millions of Kilowatts"? As in hundreds of gigawatts? As in more than the residential electrical power usage of the entire United States? As in enough to instantaneously vaporise the blast door they were slowly melting through in Episode One? I think maybe you're exaggerating just a little.