Slashdot Mirror
Apple Has Stopped iOS Downgrading
An anonymous reader noted a forum post seems to confirmApple will be
fighting downgrading in iOS 5. Quoting:
"This will only affect restores starting at iOS5 and onward, and Apple will be able to flip that switch off and on at will (by opening or closing the APTicket signing window for that firmware, like they do for the BBTicket)."
You live by the wall, you die by the wall.
Disagreeing with me does not mean you get to mod me troll.
I have faith the Dev Team or someone will figure out some sort of work around. Otherwise, it has never been officially enabled anyway which is just a crazy setup. It's nonsensical to not allow people to change versions of iOS. Lots of iphone 3G people I am sure wish they could switch back to iOS v3 after finding v4 too slow. I understand security holes plugged might be part of the reason they do this, but since Apple stops supporting some of the devices (iphone 3G and iphone 1) anyway, it can't be why they don't allow downgrading...
I found when I upgraded from iOS3 to iOS4 on my 1st gen iPad it caused it to work sluggishly. I was considering going back to iOS3 if possible and I'm even more afraid to go to iOS5. I got the iPad at xmas and not even 6 months in I felt I'm already behind in performance.
More like Apple has implimented another annoying, eventually to be circumvented, impediment to downgrading.
Hey, how's it going?
Speaking from experience: I had a less-than-a-year-old iPhone 3g, which got semi-bricked when I installed the iOS 4 update last summer (stated as compatible, as in Vista-compatible).
At the time, I was able to downgrade back to a previous iOS release; but, being unable to call even emergency numbers for minutes (oh, if the phone didn't crash entirely) until they fixed their memory-hogging, badly written OS months later (iOS 4.2), would be a very bad thing.
That depends. Do you love Apple products and think that they provide a slick, productive, secure intrrface? If so, this is wonderful news. Do you hate Apple and everything they stand for, and detest the idea of compromising your freedom for the safety of a walled garden? If so, this is draconian fascism that threatens the foundation of western freedom.
Until iPhone security is implemented with RSA or other public-key crypto system on chip, the cycle of crack and patch will be for us onlookers an amusing game of quoits, or maybe as a slap-fight at a Wild Irish Rose festival. For Apple, though, the stakes are higher than kids getting to play $0.99 games for free, as each exploit is a proof-of-concept that both questions Apple's entire design, implementation, and review process and demonstrates to businesses that their trade secrets remain low-hanging fruit on the iOS platforms.
Yes, better to use Android, where there are no restrictions on downgrading.
I assume this was sarcasm. But the difference, as I understand it, is that on Android, a user doesn't need to downgrade to a jailbreakable version just to install applications outside the scope of what the central app store's curator allows. All Android-powered phones support adb install, and most support "Unknown sources". Even AT&T has been turning "Unknown sources" back on due to popular demand for Amazon Appstore.
I feel that their objective is simple.
They release an "upgrade" that degrades performance on older phones. People update because of the new features but soon decide it is too slow for their taste and try to downgraded back to when it was ok.
Since now they won't be able to, and their phone is ruined, they decide they need a new phone. But all those apps they bought are stuck to iThings, so, not wanting to lose them, they buy a new iPhone.
*Sigh*
It implies that Apple ever condoned or deliberately enabled this. They are strengthening their protection against an activity that they never intended to be possible. You might as well post "Apple Stops Jailbreaking".
I don't understand this guys trying to fight a product which tries to lock them down: Don't fight it! don't buy it! period!
I've been using the beta and now beta 2 on both my iphone and my ipad. As of beta 2, you can now sync wirelessly, but syncing in general has become somewhat unreliable. Lots of wierd errors. But I'm not going to go up in arms since it IS only a beta.
However I've found the wifi usage on my devices to be significantly improved. I was hoping my 3g stability would improve but it still sucks. But my phone is a 3gs and I haven't noticed any issues performance-wise. Ditto with my Gen 1 ipad. So far I'm quite happy with the improvements Apple has made.
Possibly an English language translation would benefit those people not fluent in Apple. Is this more of a "hurray, Apple have finally put a stop to the scourge of downgrading" or more of a "booo, why are Apple stopping people downgrading"?
This is more a "Huh, Apple has finally closed the loophole we were using to allow downgrades but we all knew this was coming."
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
I assume this was sarcasm. But the difference, as I understand it, is that on Android, a user doesn't need to downgrade to a jailbreakable version just to install applications outside the scope of what the central app store's curator allows. All Android-powered phones support adb install, and most support "Unknown sources". Even AT&T has been turning "Unknown sources" back on due to popular demand for Amazon Appstore.
This argument is akin to the one made for Windows some decades back. "But look at the abundance of great shareware for the platform", while actually it was more like a steaming pile of VB6 homework projects.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
Yes, better to use Android, where there are no restrictions on downgrading.
I hope you're @(*$ joking. It took me 10x as long to 'root' my Optimus V as it did to get my iPod Touch jailbroken.
My girlfriend can't get rid (easily) of her "i" Sprint button on her home screen. Mine at least links to something useful like my browser. Look at how Motorola, et al are locking down their Android devices so you can't put custom stuff on them.
Android is more 'open' but it is not this magical mecca that people on Slashdot keep proclaiming it to be.
And you're suggesting that the App store's software is that much better? Please, considering how fast the collection has been growing for both options, it's pretty clear that at least 90% of both stores are full of crap.
1. Those who need it. Dumb fuckers who should not be allowed onto the internet at all ever. (Hope the make the wall bigger for them.)
You mean iOS devices don't have an unrestricted web browser? Weird, I must be using some sort of alternative universe iPod touch...
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
There are levels of "pwning" a phone.
A HTC phone that is rooted, re-rommed (Cyanogen, etc), and S/OFF-ed is all yours completely. You can do what you want with it. There are sites that actually let you build your own custom ROM, including/excluding stuff as you see fit.
I'd probably say the levels are:
1: ADB access.
2: Ability to sideload.
3: Temporary root (until reboot).
4: Permanent root.
5: Carrier unlock.
6: Custom ROMs doable via kexec(), but kernel signed. This is how all Motorola phone but the Droid get custom ROMs.
7: Custom ROMs that do not need to do the kexec() gymnastics. New Android version? Go for it. Custom Linux kernel? Rock it.
8: Fastboot unlocked.
iPhones are different. At most, you can get to level 4 (which is roughly equivalent [1].) Having a completely customized IPSW is almost impossible to do, and there is no such thing as custom ROMs for the iPhone. You might be able to use Winterboard or other relatively minor modifications, but rebuilding the OS from the ground up isn't going to happen.
You can rule your phone completely with Android. You can customize an iPhone, but the device is still pretty much tightly controlled by Apple.
[1]: A true jailbreak takes a lot more work on an iPhone than a "#" sign on Android. A jailbreak requires a load of essentially the whole userlevel UNIX land (basic commands, Mobile Substrate, etc.) This is why the Dev Team is conservative on releases, because it is a very exacting process and one move can either force a DFU restore or if messing around with BB, a true bricking.
I was able to carrier unlock my iPhone, so it looks like level 5 is available. Also, there's nothing stopping you from creating a custom OS for iPhone hardware, the big stumbling point is that iOS source code is not available as a base.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
Apple has been fighting the downgrade for sometime now starting with the 3GS and the required verification signature through the apple servers hence the 3194 error you get when trying to downgrade your OS version on a 3GS and now 3G with newer versions. There are of course ways around it (using custom builds) but it just makes it more of a hassle. ANd thankfully for stuff like TinyUmbrella you can save your baseband and restore to it. I don't know how this will work with IOS 5 but I'm sure there will be a fix for it.
The difference is that the restore is done on-device now (over the air updates). And the device sends a nonce to get an APTicket.
The restore app must be hacked to save the nonce and the APTicket together, and now since the app is on the device, it's going to be more difficult than it was before.
Apple never wanted downgrades before, that's why they stopped signing old code per device a while back, hence the "save your blobs" movement.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Or at least the ones who can't afford a phone solely devoted to running beta iOS releases.
If I can't return my wife's iPhone to its supported state after loading a beta release, I can't load that release.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
You're forgetting all of the people who sit in between and both love the slick styling AND the ability to customise their own device how they like. This move doesn't really affect people from group A (they want the security so more security is only good for them) or group B (they hate the current level of lock down so more of it won't change their minds) but it has a huge impact on people from group C who now potentially have a sacrifice to make either way.
But it's a bigger steaming pile wearing a black tuttleneck sweater...
It does not mater the platform, you will ALWAYS get steaming pile of crap apps. It's required.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
3. Those who should be using Blackberry.
Fixed that for ya.
Bon appetite!
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
Really? Why wouldn't they stop people from loading a custom OS the same way they did with all iPods released after the 5G video? (You STILL can't load a custom OS on a 6G classic, and it's been years since release).
You mean look at Motorola, et al, who are unlocking their bootloaders?
http://www.uberphones.com/2011/06/motorola-unlocks-the-atrix-4gs-bootloader-and-brings-gingerbread-update/
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2074391/htc-unlock-bootloader-smartphones
-]Phreak Out[-
Being able to customise their device and install any old rubbish on it would ruin the device. I am convinced that a mobile device can only be as slick and solid as Apple's devices by being within a walled garden. As soon as you knock down the walls, it is inevitable that weeds will get in. Or, is the state of Android not as bad as it seems? I'm willing to change my mind if I'm wrong.
If you want to root your Android phone, buy an Android phone that can be rooted. Pretty goddamn simple. It's disingenuous to point out a completely locked down phone and say, "see? Android isn't open!" Buy an HTC device or buy a completely unlocked phone from Google and quit bitching.
Also, can you point to the source of an easily unlockable iOS device that has a plethora of alternate OS distributions available for it, all compiled directly from the original OS source? No? Then it seems your entire point is completely moot.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
No I agree there's a lot of crappy software in both but I think in general the software quality doesn't exactly improve if you "go off the beaten path" of the big centralized app stores so to speak. Most professional developers and serious amateurs take the trouble of getting into the big app stores. I'm also not saying there isn't anything out there from "side loading" app sites (or whatever it's called in Android) or even the jailbreak Cydia store for iPhone but it seems they are most valuable to a small community of hardcore geeks.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
You can rule your phone completely with Android.
Hah. I really have no interest in being welcomed as my phone's new overlord.....
Don't quote me on this.
There's been lots of Android customization without terrible problems. Just look at the default widgets, lots of customization options there to start with. I enjoy having a simple toggle for things without having to go through piles of menus. (wifi, wifi sharing, bluetooth, etc)
-]Phreak Out[-
I carrier unlocked my iPhone too. I bought one from the Apple Store, brand new, sim-free, with no carrier lock.
Then you get a single company (Apple) dictating the APIs that developers can use. Some of my fun OSX apps can't be added to the Apple App Store since they use private APIs.
Its not what it is, its something else.
There are levels of "pwning" a phone.
And the classic nerd mistake is to think that most people give half a shit about any of that, except for carrier unlocking which is orthogonal to the rest of the list.
That's sort of a red herring -- as is this entire article -- because you cannot and have never been able to downgrade without jailbreaking in the first place. Apple has ALWAYS closed the signing window for older iOS versions within minutes to days of a new release.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
software quality doesn't exactly improve if you "go off the beaten path"
Very few people "go off the beaten path" to find better quality. They go off the beaten path to get features that aren't supported on the beaten path. So far I haven't felt the need to do so with android, although with my next upgrade I will probably be forced outside of the google app store to get tethering without having to pay my provider, since the tethering app I use in no longer available in the app store. With an iPhone, I would have been forced to jailbreak to run apps similar to the ones I use under android. (At which point all the iphonebois ask me which ones. I answer. They say those are entirely unnecessary. I say the are. So lets avoid that dance.)
The beaten path is much wider on android because it doesn't have a pencil-necked gatekeeper who decides whether apps are useful enough to be in the store.
Support SETI@home
Seriously, it's a phone. You call people on it, you do a bit of browsing and email on it. Run a few apps on it.
Some of us have better things to do than worry about root access, building ROMs and "using the device how I want".
When you have a serious lack of time due to family commitments, social life and other hobbies you just want a phone that works well and doesn't require lots of techie time to get it working well.
People who defend their choice of phone by the ability to build and install their own ROM need to get a life.
in others words you didn't do anything. However, you did the sensible thing in buying phone off contract and unlocked, to avoid the double-prison of a locked phone on a 24 month carrier prison term!
You mean iOS devices don't have an unrestricted web browser?
Until Apple decide that all websites should pay them a royalty for being accessible to an iDevice; or, they decide a website might have adult material and therefore offend His Jobsness and be blocked as porn.
Taking the subsidy is the only thing that makes sense in the US, since you're going to pay the same monthly rate whether you get subsidized or not (except on T-mo, and what do you want to bet that AT&T will kill those plans?).
People who defend their choice of phone by the ability to build and install their own ROM need to get a life.
It doesn't take much time to flash a custom Rom or sideload a few applications. Certainly I've done it on Windows Mobile and it makes a smartphone a very useful device. And I've got no intention of moving to a phone I can't do it on.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
As a tinkerer I understand the sentiment but that really just an adherence to OOP isn't it ? You expose a documented interface to the outside to use. If you use anything but the interface you are accepting breakage can occur at any moment (if say Apple changes the underlying hardware platform) and your app shouldn't be in the store. It's the programming equivalent to soldering a wire to the inside of your TV. You can still deploy it for yourself or in a corporation though.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
Obviously some phones are restricted, but in general you couldn't be more wrong. The great thing about Android is that - as long as you pick an open phone - you can generally upgrade your phone's OS even if the manufacturer doesn't support it.
I'm running Gingerbread on my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide, and was running it before HTC came out with the Froyo update. I'll leave it to you to figure out how. And the myTouch isn't even one of the open phones (although HTC has announced all of their future phones will be)
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Ever since the fiasco of the slow-as-hell iOS 4 on the two-year-old iPhone 3G, I tell people to think twice about upgrading your iOS version. You will not have the same, snappy phone as when you bought it. And now they have made downgrading impossible -- I think it's a bad move.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
Um, what? A locked down Android phone isn't an example of Android being non-open?
If Android isn't open because a minority of phone makers lock the bootloader and because it's almost always bundled with some, entirely optional, proprietary software, then Linux isn't open because TiVo locks its bootloader, and always bundles a proprietary application with it.
And even if it were the case that this logic applies, it's still the height of stupidity to, as the AC did earlier, claim that Android is no more open than iOS. You can loosen some of the restrictions with iOS by hacking it, you can't loosen all of them, and third parties will always have difficulty building a market for their applications if Apple doesn't approve of them, and the only people they can sell to are those who have hacked their devices.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
There are loads of high quality apps you can install from outside the market. I bought an Oxford JapaneseEnglish dictionary app from Penreader that is excellent. I also installed Transdroid which lets me control my BitTorrent machine remotely, even after it was removed from the market. It is a fairly well polished app.
I also get to try out beta versions of open source apps I use when I am working with the developer to add new features. RMaps is one I use a lot, as well as aedict. I wrote a little patch for RMaps myself and was able to test it on my phone, all without a developer license and a standard non-rooted handset (Galaxy S).
Plus, there are plenty of shitty iOS apps. Apple products are not magically immune to crapware, and Apple's testers only filter out blatantly buggy apps rather than those that are unusable or badly designed.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'd put carrier unlock right at the top of the list since you can usually do it just by typing in a number. After a few months most carriers in the UK will give you the unlock code on request, and once your initial contract period is over they have to.
I think it is also worth pointing out that you can do an awful lot more with a non-root Android phone using apps on the market, e.g. replace the default home screen with a modified version. I wasn't that impressed with Samsung's home screen so I run LauncherPro which was installed from the market.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I thought people like you would be covered under item 2.
Of course now that I know you have no ability to comprehend what you read I am re thinking your position in the list.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
My 3GS is cludging along with iOS 4.3.3. I don't even want to see how it will run under iOS 5.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START