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When Software Offends
ndogg writes "The open source Python projects Pantyshot and Upskirt have caused quite a stir within the Python community, and catalyzed the leaving of one of their developers (a woman whose native language is not English.) The original developer, Frank Smit, has renamed Pantyshot to Misaka, but that too has suspect etymology, as Violet Blue points out."
That's the beautiful thing about freedom, you're free not to use media or software that offends you...
There's plenty of bigots and assholes out there. If you feel it's worth the fight, be my guest. I'm gonna go with the second choice, which is ignoring it. They'll both have the same end result, anyway...
No, you stupid shit, it means that this is just ONE MORE fucking reason for huge multibillion-dollar companies to give Open Source the finger.
People will use all kinds of reasons to justify their behaviour. I imagine this name would make all kinds of people want to try out the software as well. Do you think the main purpose of the open source community is to provide tools for megacorporations?
Korma: Good
It’s not that the names were simply sexual in nature: it was that they targeted a women over the very thing that makes them a minority in the Python community in the first place: you could call it a sexual exploit.
So generally speaking, I support the name change, especially if this is true:
She, not being a native English-speaker, had accepted on trust a foreign-language name for her library. According to Holden, the revelation - and the attention to her unknowing complicity - brought about with the name was so uncomfortable for her that she quit working in open source altogether.
But it's still a slippery slope.
sysadmins and parents of newborns get the same amount of sleep.
On the flip side, perhaps you ought to be offended, but have been too desensitized.
Would anyone working for/at a real-world business ever use any of that software? I highly doubt that anything that can bring about a sexual harassment suit just from publishing its documentation is worth even a penny.
Really, if you're naming things Up Skirt or Panty Shot you need to crawl out from under that rock and get out more.
I love how this is all framed as people being "offended," so that everyone can say "Ooh, look at the little baby, so offended by harsh language." When actually the issue is that the names for these (non-panty-related) software has been picked out by dudes who apparently think that it's hilarious to take pictures up women's skirts without their consent (which is what everyone knows "upskirt" and "pantyshot" mean, on the internet). You don't need to be a native speaker of English to know what they think of women.
No. I'm sorry. No. Theres a difference between having fun with software names and this. It is incredibly misogynistic, and it is perfectly reasonable to be offended by it. The name refers to a non-consensual sexual intrusion, something you might consider light rape.
There's a big difference between this and something adolescent and immaturely sexual, but not horribly offensive like, oh, 'booblib'.
Or, you know, male programmers, who by far outnumber females, can show some common sense and decency by not driving away the minority of females in this profession? Why would women want to get involved with FOSS with guys who act like they are still living in their parents basement and have all the maturity of an 18 year old.
Seriously, some people need to stop living up to the stereotype of programmers as being socially maladjusted neuro-atypical douchebags.
it's the aspies who give their software hostile and immature names which offend.
What the fuck kind of idiot thinks "upskirt" and "pantyshot" are good names for a computer program?
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
You're a moron. It means that developers need to grow up. The only reason to use names like this is for the shock value due to their offensiveness. I think it should go without saying that we need to stop demeaning women for lulz.
People will use all kinds of reasons to justify their behaviour. I imagine this name would make all kinds of people want to try out the software as well. Do you think the main purpose of the open source community is to provide tools for megacorporations?
I don't see how this naming would make anyone want to try out this software. But what it would do is make it difficult for a person in a business environment to search for and access this package, especially those with strict internet filtering.
There's a difference between Puritanistic horror at anything sexual and being offended by naming a software program after an act of non-consensual peeping.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Why would you name a parser like that? I mean, I'm all for freedom of speech, and that has to include potentially offensive speech, but why choose that? It's dumb. And I don't mean just the "potentially offensive" angle, but from a technical standpoint too. Talk about poisoning the Google searches! When people go looking for it, the legitimate software library you worked so hard to code is going to be buried way at the end of a long list of ... other stuff. Simultaneously I'm not keen on how easily offended some people are. It's not that bad. I can think of far worse choices.
Suggestion: rename it to "upkilt". That would solve the problem in true Pythonesque style.
I remember about 7-8 years ago, when someone coded up an emulator for the Neo-Geo Pocket Color. The supposed full name of the product (which none of the developers ever used) was "Rather A Pokemon Emulator?" and the logo was a Pikachu poorly Photoshopped for, shall we say, reasons of endowment. I don't recall if the software was open-source or not, but the naming controversy doesn't sound too different from this.
Free speech allows you to name your project whatever you want, no matter how tasteless. Free association, however, allows people to decide not to use your project based on its name. Open-source even lets someone fork it, changing little if anything but the name, and snag the userbase out from under a puerile manchild.
It might be hypocritical, but we're not here to be the arbiters of social norms. We're here to write code.
Naming stuff to be kitschy or to offend other people is childish. You don't have an obligation to anyone to name your software any particular way, but if you behave like a child, you shouldn't be too surprised when adults get offended. If your goal is to write code that gets used, you should pretend to be an adult--at least while you're naming it.
If you make a useful library and intentionally give it a disgusting name, you're a psychological sadist. You don't care what other people think, you just enjoy knowing they squirm every time they have to deal with your library. Grow up. Get a little empathy.
No there isn't. Just because YOU don't see this as having fun with names doesn't mean the author didn't. 'Having fun with names' and 'Having fun with names that I approve of' are not the same thing. 'Having fun with names' and 'using names that aren't offensive' are also not the same thing.
Once again, you're wrong. I bet that it wouldn't be hard to find people who would be just as offended at booblib or libboob as libupskirt.
This is actually a pretty good example of what I first said. Your morals say libupskirt bad, libboob ok. Others see no problem with either and still others will find neither acceptable. Here however, you are using your morals as a rule that everyone should follow.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
To be fair, FCKeditor was named after its author, Frederico Caldeira Knabben, who is from Brazil. Evidently that was his real name and he didn't at first realize the unfortunate similarity of his initials to an English swear word--but even if he had realized this, they were still his real initials, so I think he would still have some right to name it that. In any case, the name of the editor has now been changed to CKEditor.
The something wrong is your understanding of words like "consensual", "accidental", "intentional", and "illegal".
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Just because it is on Wikipedia does not make it true or complete. I can assure you that upskirt refers to the composition of a photo or video, not its consensuality. Dare I ask, what do you think a consensually-taken upskirt photo would be called if not also 'upskirt'?
Further, if in the course of some other activity a woman accidentally shows her underwear on camera, that too is called a 'pantyshot' even though the camera was not there for the explicit purpose of capturing the event.
That either of these terms requires lack of consent or the explicit and demonstrable intent to malice is wholly false.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
True story - when I was implementing an internal IRC network for a former employer, I was instructed to add BitchX to our desktop UNIX builds - but rename the binary.
It used to be this was much bigger of an issue. Look up mnemonics for resistor color codes for examples. These names are mild in comparison. Boys must understand that a woman who is working on code is not going to look kindly when she is treated primarily as an object to be used to satisfy the boys need for sexual gratification.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Offended or not, if I was a woman in a community of 95%+ men that thought it ok to bring up upskirts or pantyshots, I think I might feel uncomfortable and unwelcome.
Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
Just because it is on Wikipedia does not make it true or complete. I can assure you that upskirt refers to the composition of a photo or video, not its consensuality. Dare I ask, what do you think a consensually-taken upskirt photo would be called if not also 'upskirt'
You are right. "Upskirt" very often often refers to consensually taken photographs of women who are paid to pretend that the photographer is taking nonconsensual photos up their skirts. These photos are then sold to men who wish or pretend that the photos were truly taken nonconsensually.
Further, if in the course of some other activity a woman accidentally shows her underwear on camera, that too is called a 'pantyshot' even though the camera was not there for the explicit purpose of capturing the event.
Excellent example! And then they humiliate the woman by publishing the photos without her consent.
Are you adequate?
There's a difference between a consensual performance and a non-consensual act (which many, many upskirts at least pretend to be). Someone familiar with the nuances of both is perfectly placed to comment upon the issue. I fail to see what your attempt at slut-shaming brings to the conversation.
Uh, "if it looks roughly mouse-shaped according to my infra-red sensitive pit, eat it"? --Chris Burke 09-08-10
Do you think the main purpose of the open source community is to provide tools for megacorporations?
What about Mom and Pop Shops? (1-25 employees)
What about small businesses? (25-100 employees)
What about medium sized businesses? (100-1000 employees)
What about Large businesses? (1000-10000 employees)
How about Not For Profit?
How about Government?
How about Military?
How about Education?
I could see all these groups being politically offended using such tools with names like that. The only group with a Naming Scheme like that would be the lone hacker in their parents basement.
Most use of computing (especially software development) is done by organizations often to manage For-Profit or Cost Saving activities, by people who are paid to do the work.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Right.
For their next trick, the Python community is probably going to honor Rapelay with a project in the name of that (in)famous "teen rape sim". Remember: do not get offended, get out more.
If that succeeds they might start moving into other "get out more" subjects like "barbe-jew" or "Niggapocalypse". My, there are suddenly many people crawling out from under rocks...?
And then people stop using Python. Because the taint is not worth it any more.
I think we need to distinguish between censorship and "light censorship." We're not censoring information. We're not infringing on someone's right to be heard, or to express themselves. In this case, we're requesting that an author pick a less-demeaning name for a software package. (IMO, the fact that he goes and picks a name associated with child upskirt shots, then says "Nyah, can't prove anything!" just goes to show how childish he really is.)
I understand that the party-line around here is "Censorship = Bad," but honestly, you need a more nuanced understanding of it than that. While I support your constitutional right to free speech, certainly you can see that a post consisting of the word "COCKS" copy-pasted over and over again doesn't belong on a message board, and that the moderators probably should delete it. This isn't about silencing the minority "cocks" opinion, it's about holding a community to a higher set of standards than the bare-minimum that are constitutionally allowed.
But what it would do is make it difficult for a person in a business environment to search for and access this package, especially those with strict internet filtering.
That's the business's problem, not the software's author's.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
How do you know that cavalier attitude won't lead to harassment or hostile workplace suits once he works for you?
Well, yeah. This isn't really about the word "upskirt," so much as how the community wants to conduct itself. Does it want to be a mature/professional environment where everyone can feel comfortable, or does it want to be a bastion of free speech, where you can name your project whatever you want, just because you can.
You look at this and say, "I would never want to work in a community where people are so easily offended," while I'm sure others look at this incident and say, "I would never want to work in a community which prides itself on it's childish lack of empathy." How this case is resolved is going to determine which type of community they want to be.
Thanks for the tip.
I'm off to go learn Python, now, just so I can create some stuff named as follows:
Rape
PrisonRape
DateRape
Throatfuck
Puker
GHB
Papabear
Cameltoe
I appreciate your help in this matter. I had no idea that people could be so easily offended by arbitrary words, but I'll be keen to choose the most offensive names I can in the future. (It's open source, so I don't give a fuck if you like the name or not -- it's a software project that anyone else is free to ignore, not a marketing class.)
Kid-proof tablet..
If we're going to rename software packages with sexually suggestive names, can we finally get a better name than GIMP.
If your goal is to build a community to develop software, doing things which drive people from the community tend to be counterproductive.
True but, thanks to OS licenses, there is a perfect solution which the community can take without having to resort to censorship: fork and rename the project. Then, when presumably the community all downloads and uses the more appropriately named project it will send a very strong message to the jerk who wrote the original package that the community as a whole does not tolerate such behaviour.
All this modern push for more and more rules and regulations is not always needed. If the community really believes that this sort of behaviour is not acceptable then let them act to show it. That is a FAR more powerful message than having a rule against it since the offender knows that the entire community thinks he is behaving inappropriately. If a rule is passed then s/he can just dismiss it as "those in power not liking them" - far harder to do that if just about everyone out there feels the same.
Very well. You are a malodorous, overweight, chronic underachiever, and a product of three generations of grossest incest who kidnaps, rapes, and murders small infants, in-between attending Nazi rallies, watching snuff films, and working in the financial industry.
May the Maths Be with you!
Judging by Google, it's taken over the phrase. Perhaps this is a good way to get rid of sexually suggestive or offensive terms - name popular open-source projects after them.
Since it's an open-source project, the only sane resolution is to fork it. Upskirt/Pantyshot for the frank crowd, and Pantsuit/Burqa for the prudes.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
This is the kind of thing that can make women feel uncomfortable. It's tough for men to understand typically, but it's belittling. The reaction a woman often gets when they complain about these things is very dismissive, which makes the whole thing much worse.
I think the bottom line is that in an open source project, you want to attract talent. Be disrespectful of females, and you lose access to a lot of potential talent. It's a bad move even if you don't understand why it's offensive.
Yes, and the people who make it know this and are being asses about not changing the name. They decided to have their little joke, no matter how bad it is for public relations and for actually getting people to adopt free software.
The blog post got several things wrong about the anime character "Misaka" (actually Misaka Mikoto) from To aro Majutsu no Index/To aru Kagaku no Railgun.
Firstly, she's about 15, not 11. In no way could you look at her and think she's 11. There is a clone of her who's biologically about 8 (Last Order) - maybe they mixed them up.
Secondly, the whole upskirt bit in Railgun is having a laugh at pantyshots. Mikoto wears shorts under her skirt, so she's actually immune to upskirt and panty flashes, much to the disappointment of her roommate Kuroko.
There is another character in Railgun who is constantly suffering panty flashes thanks to a friend, but it's not Misaka Mikoto.
The blog also characterises Anime as "adult comics" when as we all (should) know, it's all animation (child-oriented or adult-oriented) in Japan.
There's nothing "adult" to anime just like there's nothing "adult" to videos.
You're technically right, but, let's face it, a large amount of anime that's been produced lately is targeted at sexless male otaku(then again that new BEPAPAS series looks interesting, but let's face it Ikuhara's a creep).
I do watch Japanese porn regularly (sorry) , and I've never heard of anybody half famous that goes with the name Momoko. A quick google indicates that a "Momoko Tani" is a "Japanese Idol" that wears suggestive clothings (usually scanty swimsuits/bikinis), but not anything that you could call "porn".
Gravure IS PORN.
Also, Momoko Miyu is a Japanese porn actress in proper AV films.
Perhaps it's not the weird Japanese names that's causing Google to give you all those Chilling Effects, but maybe "upskirt"? I've turned off any "safe filters" in Google, and probably my jurisdiction is less anal about child porn (but I haven't seen any of child porn in those searches), so I can't check whether "Jessica upskirt" (or whatever) gives you the same warning, but I suspect it would
Still, it's incredibly tasteless. It'd be just about as tasteless if I saw libseme or libuke or libyaoi in an apt/yum/etc. package requirements list.
It's not FUD or bullshit. Violet Blue isn't anyone I'd call a prude, not by a goddamned long shot. She's a sex advice columnist who's very sex positive. But she's saying that this shit isn't what any reasonable professional should have to deal with, whether it be in IT, finance, legal or any other side of any sort of business anyone's working in.
Don't shove sex where it doesn't belong. It belongs in a bar, flirting(in a respectful manner) or on Fetlife, or any other number of outlets for sexual expression. An apt, yum, etc dependency list? No way.
Just because you're not being paid doesn't mean that you don't have to be professional on some level.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.