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Wired Releases Full Manning/Lamo Chat Logs
bill_mcgonigle writes "After more than a year, Wired has finally released the (nearly) full chat logs between Adrian Lamo and Bradley Manning. Glen Greenwald provides analysis of what Wired previously left out. Greenwald writes: 'Lamo lied to and manipulated Manning by promising him the legal protections of a journalist-source and priest-penitent relationship, and independently assured him that their discussions were "never to be published" and were not "for print." Knowing this, Wired hid from the public this part of their exchange, published the chat in violation of Lamo's clear not-for-publication pledges, allowed Lamo to be quoted repeatedly in the media over the next year as some sort of credible and trustworthy source driving reporting on the Manning case.'"
Sucked in.
Which checkbox in the user settings do I have to check to get an e-mail update when the story comes out about Lamo finally getting his skull caved in with a steel pipe?
The summary should have at least once sentence saying who these people are. I don't recognize the names "Adrian Lamo" and "Brandley Manning".
While we don't need the whole detailed story, at least some context would be helpful. Even if I had read about these people and whatever shenanigans they're involved in earlier, I might not remember it now.
Let's just hope his Medal of Honor won't be posthumous...
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
This tells me Lamo was definitely on the payroll and actively looking to take out people like this. Why else troll for more information to hang the kid after Lamo had been in Manning's shoes before?
Young soldier manipulated by everybody. News at 11...
Nothing Manning released has been shown to result in ANY injuries or fatalities. Almost all of the data was 4+ months old. However it DID show a lot of reprehensible behavior on the part of the US government, assist several nations in mending hurt ties with each other and generally show that the US is not being as transparent as it should be with its people. There was far too much information marked top secret for no true reason other than protecting the image of certain diplomats doing stuff they shouldn't be.
Does this mean I support the release of top secret information? NO. Would I have done what manning did? No, but I'm glad he did. It gave the american people a better idea of how their government is acting. I was not proud to be an american for a while.
Not only did Manning do nothing wrong, he did democracy a HUGE favor. Maybe even bought it an extended life.
I have absolutely no respect for Wired, fuck them.
Did they hack his phone too? Seems to be the way of the world at the moment... anything for a sale, a story or a photo.
Adrian Lamo and Kevin Poulsen are rats and not to be trusted, and Wired is no longer the magazine of record for the technology industry. I have officially cancelled by subscription, and I seriously suggest that anybody who is interested in such a trashy rag read Vallywag for free.
For more evidence of Adrian Lamo being a lying rat bastard, listen to him try to explain himself as following his conscience in Informants Panel at The Next HOPE.
PS: He also lies about never having been controlling or being the subject of a restraining order. He is a real piece of trash.
What sort of craven spin does Wired have about why it left those particular bits of the transcript out?
Regardless of what you think about either Manning or Lamo, there would seem to be no journalistic logic behind leaving out what they did. There are redactions that make journalistic sense; but this one seems mendacious at best.
Wired just lost all credibility for journalistic integrity. Don't expect anyone to talk to them off-the-record now. I wouldn't be surprised if advertisers pulled their ads too, just like they did with the News of the World when the full extent of the hacking scandal came to light. Within days the paper was shut down for good.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
They're Conde Nast, what do you expect?
They've drained the respectability from everything they've touched.
You are welcome on my lawn.
usa army fucked up seriously when they sent manning overseas. I mean, do they even run psych checks and if they do what the fuck for and what the fuck for do guys sitting on computers just looking through information on a desk job need to be sitting in iraq when drones are flown from washington?
Don't you get it? He didn't betray us! He betrayed them. He is our hero. If you're one of them, then fuck off.
blah blah blah, fuck you and your nationalism.
The oath that one takes when enlisting is:
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
I guess you are blissfully unaware of the conditions that Bradley Manning has been kept in. Years of torture like that is much more gruesome than a swift, violent death.
Also, Manning did not betray this country. He betrayed the Bush and Obama administrations.
#1 fail troll isn't failing because you are taking the bait.
#2 fail troll is an AC, so why bother responding at all?
We must be terrorists now!
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/sam_richards_a_radical_experiment_in_empathy.html
Get off your high horse and pull your head out of your arse, Manning did this country a service on the order of the Pentagon Papers release. Some people actually want to know what our country is doing to others as opposed to burying our heads in the sand.
Do us all a favor and stop coming.
Oh my. Poor Poor Reddit. Its doomed.
In your world what has changed because this kid leaked some documents? Moral high ground or not, was the leak worth it to America (or the world)? If it wasn't for slashdot I'd forget all about it.
Back when I took the delta brief it was made pretty damn clear that I'd spend 7 or more years in a military prison for espionage, not too many years before that people were told they would receive the death penalty for the same activity. Strategic leaks happen all the time, these are intentional, to make an analogy of sorts, wholesale stealing an Elint Parameter List from the safe to OCR and email off to wikileaks over the weekend, you just don't do that crap regardless of how the data is obtained - assuming you value your freedom anyway.
(I love you DSD, I know you read this!)
Have you ever been in the military? The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), that I was taught, specifically requires soldiers to refuse illegal orders and to report those who issue them. Also to report all violations of the law and the code of military justice. Where Manning made his mistake was in reporting to the wrong people. Granted, he saw widespread violations of the law, and the people in the military tend to "frown on" (read "punish") those who actually follow this portion of the UCMJ, so he didn't know whom to trust. However, he would have been far better off to find some senator friendly to his cause (perhaps Kucinich) and report his findings to them.
So, all you moronic conservatives, and republicans who believe that soldiers are required to obey any order, no matter what, had better hope those soldiers know better when some future republican president, drunk on the power the Tea Party has given her, orders the National guard to fire upon Tea Party protestors who become a major pain in the butt when they realize they have been lied to and manipulated all this time.
In the USA, yes there are (can't speak for other countries). It is afforded the same status as lawyer-client or doctor-patient. A spiritual advisor (priest, minister, rabbi, shaman, spaghetti wizard) may not be compelled to reveal what someone told him PROVIDED the communication is in the context of providing spiritual advice or counseling; this context is generally construed very broadly.
From what I've read I gather that Lamo has got some serious psychological issues. That business with Manning only confirms that the guy doesn't know who he is.
Very early on Lamo states that his ex is/was a 97B That is Counterintelligence, not the 97E/35M that Manning thought it was be. Lamo was smart, he hinted very early that he had connections to Army Counterintelligence and Manning drove on, so Lamo fed him the BS to let the punk hang himself.
/. children claim, there is nothing heroic or noble about what manning did. He leaked our nations secrets, that's espionage, he did it while we are at war (even if undeclared) in two nations, that's treason. And he should face the full penalty. We have no right to those classified documents. The existence of secrets != the existence of wrong doing. Nations have secrets to enable diplomats to converse with each other and to aid negotiations. The Military has secrets because we don't want the enemy to know exactly what we plan on doing next. Nowhere is there any promise or statement that says every single bit of information collected by or created by the government belongs and should be open to the people. Any such government would be used and abused by the nations of the world, it would be unable to have any military successes as the enemies of that country would always know exactly what it was targeting and how it was planning to attack.
Good on Lamo, manning is a traitor, despite what the
Manning is a Traitor, Lamo may have his past history of criminal acts, but in this case he is the real Hero.
1) Journalists have a reputation of not revealing sources if they say that won't (including going to jail). Lamo's actions reflect poorly on the entire profession as a whole (not that it has much anyway..)
2) If Lamo is guilty of doing the same things that Manning is, then why isn't Lamo in lockup instead of being considered a credible source?
3) Manning just released information. Lamo released only part of it and lied (and had others lie) about other parts.
It was an alright magazine in the 90s and eventually I got bored and decided to let my subscription lapse. Little does anyone know that in the fine print Wired will send you to a collections agency over their $12 yearly subscription for not renewing. Way to reward my years of subscriptions. Fuck them I hope they go under quicker than the newspapers.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Manning did what he did for idealistic reasons. Also, he did not lie to anyone (that I know of). He hoped his actions would lead to positive global change.
Adrian Lamo did what he did for the greater good of Adrian Lamo. He lied Manning to get more info and ultimately betrayed him.
Wired participated and perpetuated these lies and gained publicity as a result of them.
bah.
were allowed to lie to you with impunity?
The only thing that really changed is that we know that military data security can be horrible, and that the spirit of "Loose Lips Sink Ships" died at some point.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
The complete logs, as Wired said, don't contain anything new or revealing. All they do is show that Bradley Manning is a complete emotional mess.
>I don't respond to Anonymous Cowards. And, no, I am NOT an American.
You are an American collaborator
Manning broke the law and in spades. There is no getting around that. He had no idea what were in 99.9999999999% of the files he gave to wikileaks - and we still haven't seen all of them either. There were legitimate routes he could have gone with the helicopter/journalist kill video within DoD and legitmate routes beyond that. He chose not to. That much of what was released is mundane, over classified or shows stupidity or pettiness should not shock anyone. If anything, Manning has hurt the cause of openess as the government will be even more hostile to reduced or no classification on routine documents, will find reason to spurn even more FOIA requests and will clamp down harder on security.
Greenwald, as a former lawyer, thinks that journalism is the same thing as "discovery" and is angry that Wired didn't share the chat logs they sourced with him so he could continue his rabid defense of Manning and Wikileaks. He has been attacking Wired and Poulsen ever since.
I know it's trendy on the interwebs to be all pro-Wikileaks and pro-Anonymous, but people really should be a little more critical in their reading.
bun-fhuinneog agam!
Just the response (and modding) I expected.
No surprise there.
Thanks for reminding me exactly why you are on my foes list. :3
Idiot.
Ars is still doing ok....
What about Manning?
Is he still being abused and deprived of his human and constitutional rights?
that totally forgives the treason.
Privilege such as priest-penitent, husband-wife, doctor-patient, attorney-client are affirmative exclusions of evidence, that is closer to mitigation of punishment rather than repudiation of the complaint. Privileges were established for a narrow social benefit and are also interpreted very narrowly by the judge to the end that substantial justice is--done rather than just a technical dodge exploited.
I've notice that people with engineering backgrounds often misjudge the law as a latticework of laser bright lines separating guilty from innocent or probative proof from random fact. The truth is that there are very few absolutes in law; while striving for uniform and clear application of itself and thereby justice, it has to account for the billions of nuances in intent and fact IRL.
The worst part is they have allowed lies to go unchallenged for all this time. And they have lied to cover their own ass in the process. Take a look at this tweet. This is Evan Hansen, the editor in chief at Wired magazine, stating clearly that they have released all relevant portions of the chat logs concerning Manning and Wikileaks.
Now check out this portion of the chat logs.
This explicitly states that Manning and Assange have almost no relationship. Assange doesn't want to know the guy. Yet lies have persisted for this past year saying that Assange coaxed the documents out of Manning. The feds were trying to build a case against Manning based on that assumption. But the chat logs clearly state the opposite is true.
Wired has lied for a year on the subject and has no credibility. How Evan Hansen is still employed there is beyond my understanding.
I used to buy a Wired magazine every month off the magazine stand at stations etc. Didn't bother to subscribe it ever, but just got hooked to it. On some months I bought the UK version AND the US version.
After their endless Wikileaks hate and this debacle with Manning I've not bought a single Wired. Nor do I intend to.
I'm boycotting Wired.
... they contain a significant amount of important information.
1) Lamo stated the he was a journalist and a priest, so the chat logs would be secret.
2) They further show Manning's intent for releasing the documents.
3) Julian Assange had very limited communications with Manning in an effort to protect his sources.
4) Manning wasn't simply a low level employee as the government has tried to portray. He had direct communications with high level officials.
5) Wired misled the public by concealing this information for a year and allowed Lamo and others to spread lies about Manning.
But yeah, besides all that, there is nothing new or revealing.
You are sympathizing with a traitor. It doesn't matter what country a person hails from - or how they feel about others or openness or whatever else, if you betray the people to whom you owe everything for you becoming whatever you might be, you can no longer even be considered Human. Bradley Manning is a piece of shit that deserves to rot in the lowest pits of Hell.
So were the generals who plotted to kill Hitler evil traitors?
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Really? About the only articles there I still read are by Jon Stokes... and he just left. For the past few years their quality has been dropping significantly. I was quite interested when they put out the call for freelancers a couple of years ago. Then I discovered what they paid, and realised why their content quality was so bad.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Fine with me if they shoot Manning. And if Wired helps them get around to shooting Manning, let's give Wired a medal. Nothing wrong with lies told to traitors and other heinous criminals.
http://blogwarleaks.blogspot.com/
Read it. Written in December, it nails the whole affair long before the logs were released.
This whole "Manning was a hero" thing is really weird.
The guy committed a crime. The crime is pretty clear. He also committed the crime with a pretty blatant disregard for anyone else.
You want an analog? Someone robbed at bank with a weapon to pay for surgery for his son.
Was he justified? Maybe...
Was anyone hurt? Luckily no one was injured
Did he still commit a crime for which he is expected to be punished to the fullest extent of the law? Yes
The fact that no one was injured doesn't prove that it was safe. Drunk drivers get in car crashes all the time and no one is seriously injured or killed. Does that mean that the drunk driver was justified to try driving home? Moral justification also does exempt one from legal ramifications. Christian extremists who bombed abortion clinics felt morally justified and obligated to act in the way that they did. Are you suggesting that if abortion is later outlawed(confirming their justification) that we should also pardon those who bombed abortion clinics?
Finally, journalists do not have any "right" to protect their sources. The journalist-source relationship is probably the least defendable confidentiality relationship. There is not any intrinsic guarantee, and if a journalist is protecting someone guilty of a major crime they can actually be considered an accomplice if they do not divulge their source. Journalists try to protect their sources, but there is no guarantee. Also, how does someone who is not a minister even begin to claim a penitant-priest relationship?
[citation needed]. Even the Pentagon admits that there's no evidence anyone was endangered by this leak. So how about naming some of the "people, programs, and processes" that were endangered? I mean, besides the ones that involve the US gov't lying to the American people and then covering it up. I'm sure THOSE programs really were endangered.
Evil, perhaps not. Traitors, definitely.
And this terrible crime is truly worth having our clearanced military personelle deciding that its time to violate his oaths and divulge whatever information he saw fit-- even that which shows no "horrible crimes"-- to the entire world.
Remember the video of the death of the Reuters journalist, which the US repeatedly withheld against the wishes of said news agency? Care to guess how it eventually came to light?
Indeed. Wikileaks had examined the video in great detail, pointing out small civilian camera gear, and even identifying individuals by name. They were no doubt aware of (at least) the AK-47 and the rocket launcher in the video. Their omission of this information was deliberate. This certifies their bad faith, and exposes them as propagandists -- fitting their description to the desired narrative.
We owe a great debt of gratitude to Adrian Lamo.
You just described the Bush adminstration. But if the lies are big enough and you are powerful enough, you'll never be punished. See also: Sub-Prime Pyramid Scheme.
Lamo did not know that Manning would be put into these conditions, so wishing him dead over this as you did is absurd not to mention immoral and flatly repulsive.
Pvt. Manning blew all of these out of the water. The wide sweep of material he evidently collected demonstrated a pissed off individual without a cause, unsuited to be a soldier. I'm not sure he would have been much happier in a future, post-DADT Army. Manning wanted to brag, a typical downfall of lawbreakers. If he'd followed something along the lines of the "maxims" above, he may have been caught, anyway. But, he'd be in a better state of mind, and able to clam some degree of subjective control over his circumstances.
What did he plan to accomplish? Vague platitudes aside, nothing other than monkey with the system until he got his discharge.
What did he accomplish? Proved, again, that unauthorized release of classified material is not career enhancing, especially without a powerful patron. Provided more evidence that war is hell. That the Obama Administration's public and private policy goals and actions coincided, and that there was no secret agenda. Not surprisingly, the inadvertent consequence is probably the most important: an unedited snapshot of a major power's foreign policy in action, c. early 21st century. A treasure for scholars, of the sort usually unearthed only after a cataclysmic government collapse.
Luke, help me take this mask off
Cool.
So wired is just another useless media tit.
And Lamo is a asshole.
This isn't news.
Tell me....how often do you need to wipe your keyboard and monitor clean when you're furiously typing one of these nonsensical posts?
Look at the loser with zero logic skills! hahahaha
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
You got your ass handed to you on a platter, and you know it. ....*
Actually, no...you don't know it. That's the sad part.
At least, sad for you.
The rest of us find it hilarious.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
Google is censoring this story from Google Reader's RSS syndication, as well as the original article from Wired's RSS feeds.
It's also absent from Google News.
Look for yourself. It doesn't exist.
Yeah, guess what: when you declare yourself an enemy of the United States government, and then take steps towards that goal, the US government tends to take you at your word. Torture? Gimme a F-in break. Torture is having bamboo splinters forced up your fingernails. Torture is not the European confinement model, with weekends off. What happened to social disobedience of the Ghandi style, where it is assumed that you will spend time in jail? Manning should be proud to serve his time, as it makes him a greater martyr when his fellow travelers put pressure on the government and force him to be released in violation of US sentencing guidelines.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Can't back up your b.s., eh? See subject-line, & everyone else can see you "Run, Forrest" from this here:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2324468&cid=36777380
APK
P.S.=> After all: Only REAL LOSERS that say things they can't back up run & resort to 'projecting' (your own faults) as you have attempted to do to myself...
U FAIL - lol, between THAT link above, & this too:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2324468&cid=36776710
"Gosh, I wonder who lost" (not, & it wasn't I, that's certain, lol)...
... apk
What colour's the sunset in that polka dotted sky world you live in?
HAHAHA loser!
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
cbiltcliffe maintain some dignity at least. Projecting as you are also shows you lost badly.
I am really sick and tired of nearly everyone presenting nearly every situation as a choice between one extreme and the other. This is totally the way the conservatives want people to think. If all of the military is not totally subservient, obeying every order regardless of legality, then we will end up with the extreme opposite : Military coups left and right.
Well, I call total BS on that one. If you really believe that then you just aren't smart enough to be reading Slashdot. Perhaps not smart enough to be reading at all. Doncha think it is possible, maybe even likely, that if people in the military obeyed the laws and reported crimes responsibly, then we just may end up with a well run military that obeys the laws and DOESN'T do anything stupid or extreme???
Here we go again...
Manning did nothing wrong.
Wired did everything wrong.
Poor little Manning is being discriminated against and victimised.
Blah blah blah.
Awesome. You're getting modded down for accurately predicting what direction the comments would go in, while the idiot calling for Lamo to be murdered is getting modded up.
And my other comment saying the same thing got modded down, too, so let's try again. Go ahead, assholes, I've got karma to burn.
I'm not sure why I still come to this shit-pit.
I guess that did go a little far.
Although I don't see the point in providing dignity to someone who repeatedly strips it away from themselves with their paranoid rantings.
And as far as being dignified myself? Well, I've never been much for pomp and formalities. If I think you're an idiot, I'll say you're an idiot. Call a spade a spade, and all that.
I do think apk is a loser, so I said it. Did I say it in the best way I could? Well, maybe not. But the message is still the same.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
He's not running away after you baited and trolled him. You are though, here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2324770&cid=36794160
No, apk, you're not running away.
You're just going "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!" and adding on "I WIN because YOU FAIL" without any sort of evidence to back you up at all, other than regurgitated bullshit that's already been shot down.
Which is just as bad.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2324770&cid=36796978
"Run, Forrest... RUN!!!
APK
P.S.=> You don't DARE answer those 5 simple questions in the link above, because you know (& I know) that I'll just tear you apart here publicly yet again, you amateur wannabe (& You KNOW it ( & I know it, + your evasions of 5 simple questions in that link above show everyone else here that much too - easily))
... apk
Each to their own but I find quite a few of their featured articles worth the read (and their forums have been and still are great)
You project your own problem yourself in running from his 5 questions here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2324770&cid=36796978