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Can Minecraft Change the Gaming Industry?

An anonymous reader writes "Is Minecraft really changing the gaming industry fundamentally? This author certainly thinks so, and even goes so far as to consider Minecraft's world manipulation a paradigm shift along the lines of 3D-gaming during the early '90s. 'Every block in the game is available to pick up and reallocate. We can tear down and build up. The neat thing is that future games does not need to be as liberal, but they will need to consider how they can make the environment a hell of a lot more manipulable. Now, this is quite a bit too simplified and the vast majority of games must not feature a shovel worthy of digging to the center of the earth, but giving the user power over everyday things (still in game worlds) will be a worthy challenge to consider.'" Minecraft may give us power over everyday things in the real world, too.

255 comments

  1. MineVille? by alphatel · · Score: 4, Funny

    Next paradigm shift:

    Sally needs help moving blocks, sign up and earn 5 facepoints!

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    1. Re:MineVille? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1, Funny

      Didn't they already have MineVille in Chile a few months back?

      Too soon?

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    2. Re:MineVille? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      no, too unfunny.

    3. Re:MineVille? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does seem like there should be a -1 Too Soon mod option.

  2. Nethack already did it. by Warwick+Allison · · Score: 2

    Minecraft is just a copy of the Gnomish Mines.

    1. Re:Nethack already did it. by Gideon+Wells · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Stigler's Law variant.

      Friendster -> MySpace -> FaceBook. It ain't Friendster or MySpace that is plastered on dang near every website and being visited by the U.S. president. It doesn't matter who did it first.

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    2. Re:Nethack already did it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, very true. Also Utlima Online works similar to minecraft to where you mine, create ignots, forge weapons, chop wood, and so on and so on. It was amazingly addicting and you could even create your own house, castle, whatever and use space from the actual map from the MMO instead of your own channel. This was back in the late 90's. Afterwards, there were games like a tale in the desert, but that died, and many others that were more similar to UO. While there are many developers (including myself) who would want nothing more to create an MMORPG with those kinds of elements, it is incredibly difficult to build without using up an intense amount of horsepower. There are some pretty cool lightweight algorithms and game engines that are specifically tailored to do what minecraft does in full 3D, but unfortunately we're just not there yet to make modern games worth it. Wait a few years and then we'll start seeing 3D versions of UO, and "life" simulator games and there will be plenty of obstacles to overcome, such as how to make a game like real life without the real life.

    3. Re:Nethack already did it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing beats Dwarf Fortress.

    4. Re:Nethack already did it. by forgotten_my_nick · · Score: 1

      UO was a great social experiment as well (until it started catering for people who wanted to pay to play basically a single player game without objectionable interaction).

      When I played for example, I would hang out in a town called Delucia. It was fun and you tended to meet the same people.

      After a while we got terrorised by a French PKer (person who kill for the sake of it). One person disrupted the gameplay of easily a 100 people an hour, by slaughtering, trapping (so monsters would kill them), tricking them into getting killed, robbing and generally being an ass.

      So it got a point where the second he logged in runners would go out around the town for people to go back to town or find somewhere not to interact with him.

      He would always come into town flagged to try and kill people who would start anything.

      The community got so close knit, that one night he came onto the server flagged and spouting garbage. The whole town said they had enough and all stood around him (30 or more people) and told him to cut it out. He was so worried that he started emptying all his gear into the bank for fear he would get spanked by the whole town.

      He didn't come around much after that.

    5. Re:Nethack already did it. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The first problem is if a person says incorrectly says "I did this first" in which case it's a lie for the purposes of self-promotion. If a third party says "they did this first" then this just points to ignorance or short sightedness or a hidden agenda.

      Who did it first may not matter in some contexts (who is making the most money on it, in Facebook's case), but it certainly matters in many other contexts (history books, learning from the past).

      (granted this was written by "anonymous reader" who is not a respected journalist as far as I can tell)

    6. Re:Nethack already did it. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The odd thing about the UO experiment is that it had been done before, but the UO designers appeared to be ignorant of earlier online games like MUDs. The experiment also has so many results that conflict. Many former UO players will take your view that community policing worked, but many others will also claim that self-policing was a dismal failure. Unlike what happened in MUDs, UO was big enough that it started the trend of dividing players into bitter enemies, those who think PK ruins games versus those who think it's a benefit. Your anecdote actually provides good evidence for both points of views (PK griefing ruined the fun of the game, but PKing also provided the vigilante justice).

      However your first paragraph clearly puts you into a biased pro-PK camp. You seem to imply that players who object to this PKing want a single player game, which is clearly untrue. I hear this argument even today, but in various forms. Ie, someone doesn't want to group in an MMO and in reply some idiots say "then go play a single player game". People need to remember that these games have many varieties of players and play styles and none of them should be mandated and no style of player is superior.

    7. Re:Nethack already did it. by the_arrow · · Score: 1

      The odd thing about the UO experiment is that it had been done before, but the UO designers appeared to be ignorant of earlier online games like MUDs.

      Thats weird since the lead designer, Raph Koster, came from the MUD world.

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  3. it's a memory and plot problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ever since populous and nethack though, it's nothing new. you have to just find a balance on it. but minecraft is blocky for a reason.

  4. Every block in the game is available to pick up an by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every block in the game is available to pick up and reallocate

    Funny, when I mine coal I don't end up with any coal blocks in my inventory..

  5. Less is sometimes more by Ron2K · · Score: 2

    What I find great about Mincraft is the the fact that it keeps things sweet and simple. No flashy graphics bringing your machine to its knees, no DRM to fuck the legitimate consumers over, no crap gameplay with a shitty ending. It's just you (and maybe some friends), the world, and your imagination.

    Minecraft is definitely evidence that sometimes, less is more. My personal opinion is that game producers have lost the plot - too often, we get served a steaming pile of flashy crud (*cough* EA), and sometimes even non-flashy crud (Duke Nukem Forever, I'm looking at you here!). Perhaps these people need to sit down, take a look at what people are enjoying playing and why they enjoy it, and get back in touch with their market.

    1. Re:Less is sometimes more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      >No flashy graphics bringing your machine to its knees

      Right, the bad programming does.

    2. Re:Less is sometimes more by sakdoctor · · Score: 1

      People enjoy being nickel and dimed to death in a virtual skinner box. Plus that's where the money is.
      They'll build that.

    3. Re:Less is sometimes more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because a game is better than bad games doesn't make it good.

      Minecraft is for people who aspire to play the part of individual dwarfs in Dwarf Fortress.

      You were quoting (most popularly) Mies van der Rohe. However, as Robert Venturi opined: while less "bad" may certainly be lauded, sometimes less is simply less "good." So try and realize that your electronic LEGO game isn't going to change everything. :)

    4. Re:Less is sometimes more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No flashy graphics bringing your machine to its knees

      You can't be serious... Minecraft is a huge resource hog, and the source is some of the most poorly written Java code I've seen.

    5. Re:Less is sometimes more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps these people need to sit down, take a look at what people are enjoying playing and why they enjoy it, and get back in touch with their market.

      They are looking at the only thing that matters to them - profits. EA and the like are not into the business of innovation. They are in the business of taking old ideas, polishing them into shiny new boxes and selling them to you all over again.
      And you know what? It works great for them. Why bother inventing things when you can just buy them?

    6. Re:Less is sometimes more by Megane · · Score: 2

      No flashy graphics bringing your machine to its knees

      No flashy graphics, sure, but try playing it on a laptop on battery power. Even plugged in it'll get your fan running, and that's just at the main start screen.

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    7. Re:Less is sometimes more by Gideon+Wells · · Score: 2

      No flashy graphics bringing your machine to its knees.

      Oooh, some of the stuff you can do to cause that to happen. Heck, there are small things you can do to cause a multi-player game to head that direction easily. I've never seen a multiplayer capable game where so many users in their youtube how to videos go "This is cool, woah, lag from all this stuff going on. Okay, don't do this online. It will melt the server with all the interactions between the players".

      3 Redstone abuse.

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    8. Re:Less is sometimes more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...no DRM to fuck the legitimate consumers over...

      When Steam requires a server checkin, it's called DRM. When Minecraft does it, it's called No DRM. Go figure.

    9. Re:Less is sometimes more by omglolbah · · Score: 1

      There is an FPS limiting option now.

    10. Re:Less is sometimes more by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 2

      Perhaps these people need to sit down, take a look at what people are enjoying playing and why they enjoy it, and get back in touch with their market.

      Never going to happen. EA will carry on churning Year+1 sports games, id will keep churning out pretty tech demos, etc .. and the indie game developers will continue to produce exceedingly fun games at unfairly low prices. It's like warfare, the big army will throw out tanks, destroyers and attack helicopters to dominate the land, sea and air while the small guerilla insurgency runs around the streets taking potshots with antique AKs and RPGs, taking out a chopper every now and again. You can be big and mighty and hold the big piece of the pie, as long as you appreciate that the under-powered but manoeuvrable force will pick away at the edges. Big studios can't afford to take chances, so they continue to produce bankable sequels to existing franchises. Indie developers have generally lower overheads, less invested, and can afford to release their quirky puzzle/platformer, or interesting physics sandbox game without having to worry so much about shareholders, approval from corporate or whatever.

    11. Re:Less is sometimes more by justthinkit · · Score: 1
      He said at the main start screen. You know, where no fps are occurring.
      .

      It seems clear to me that Minecraft ignores the CPU halt command and just loops as fast as possible all the time like some 1990s DOS program. I make our kids quit right out of the program when they aren't using it to avoid the power drain of this lunacy.

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    12. Re:Less is sometimes more by Skylinux · · Score: 2

      Well Minecraft has the option to play offline, forever. I failed to find that feature on Steam when I was locked out of Civ5 which I had purchased on DVD!

      The stand alone client only requires an internet connection for the first time run and for automatic updates. After that the game can be played offline with ease.

      http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Stand_alone_client

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    13. Re:Less is sometimes more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well Minecraft has the option to play offline, forever. I failed to find that feature on Steam when I was locked out of Civ5 which I had purchased on DVD!

      And this is different from Steam's offline mode how? (Hint: Just because you couldn't find it doesn't mean it's not there.) The very fact that Minecraft needs to check in to a server (even if only once) means that it has DRM.

    14. Re:Less is sometimes more by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Couldn't you have just installed Civ5 on your computer from the DVD? I did this with HL2 and another game (can't remember which) when I couldn't remember my Steam login.

    15. Re:Less is sometimes more by TheSambassador · · Score: 1

      He said at the main start screen. You know, where no fps are occurring.

      Seriously? FPS = frames per second. In a game application like Minecraft, there is no place that "no fps are occurring."

      This post literally makes no sense to me. Power drain of this lunacy? Ignoring the CPU halt command?

    16. Re:Less is sometimes more by TheSambassador · · Score: 2

      And this is different from Steam's offline mode how? (Hint: Just because you couldn't find it doesn't mean it's not there.) The very fact that Minecraft needs to check in to a server (even if only once) means that it has DRM.

      Well, first of all, Steam's "offline mode" consistently fails and "loses" its ability to do offline mode. You have to get the game 100% downloaded and activated, and then it needs to be launched once, sometimes more times to get Steam to be ok with you launching it in offline mode. Often it seems like if you go online again even once without even launching the game it will need to be launched again to get offline capabilities back.

      You know what else is DRM? CD keys, and most rational people accept that as an acceptable method of copy protection. Hell, through your argument, every single game that has a primary method of "downloading" has DRM from your standpoint. You have to "check in" to a "server" only once to get the file download necessary to play the game...

      With Minecraft, you download the launcher once from the website, open it, log in, and you have offline mode forever. There are no secret checks. It doesn't decide to "lose" its ability to play offline. Hell, you don't even HAVE to log in at ALL, you can actually just copy the .minecraft directory to your computer and you don't even have to touch their servers. When I first started playing Minecraft it was right when it had exploded and the authentication servers were hit pretty hard, so Notch just made the authentication not matter and opened the game to everyone for the weekend. After that, I continued playing it in Offline mode, even though I didn't own the copy, until I made the actual purchase a week or two later.

    17. Re:Less is sometimes more by Duradin · · Score: 2

      /. likes, no, loves Minecraft. That's what makes their DRM different.

    18. Re:Less is sometimes more by Skylinux · · Score: 1

      Well the difference is that if Steam loses your info you are fucked. It took them close to a week to reactivate my account.

      If this happens with Minecraft I pull out my backup, copy the files over and I am good. Minecraft only needs the connection to get the initial files after you purchase the launcher.

      Also Steam can turn your games off. Minecaft can not be turned off and it will continue to work even if the login servers are gone.

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    19. Re:Less is sometimes more by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2

      No flashy graphics bringing your machine to its knees

      Yep the shitty quality of the code and the JVM do that perfectly fine on their own. If the game actually had flash graphics on top of that clusterfuck it would probably kill even the longest battery life laptops in minutes.

    20. Re:Less is sometimes more by Skylinux · · Score: 1

      That did not work because the version shipped had an issue so it had to be patched before launch.

      I ended up downloading a torrent which had the patch and was Steam virus free. The pirated version worked even better then my original version (faster).
      Civ5 was my first Steam game and it will be my last.

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    21. Re:Less is sometimes more by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 2

      Minecraft fails rather more gracefully though. If it can't get to the authentication server you just get some fairly unobtrusive text in the top left of the screen informing you it may be a dodgy copy and you really should think about buying it. I agree with you, it is DRM, but it's the way DRM should be done, leaving the game intact and playable even if the servers go down.

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    22. Re:Less is sometimes more by lgw · · Score: 1

      You have to get the game 100% downloaded

      Yeah, that DRM sucks - I should be able to play a game offline without ever downloading or installing it!

      Steam activation is DRM done right. Many games on Steam add their own DRM, or that Games for Windows Live crap that is somehow everything DRM and worse, but you can't blame Steam for that, it's just the pipe.

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    23. Re:Less is sometimes more by TheSambassador · · Score: 1

      The "I have to download it" part wasn't the main focus of the post... good job ignoring everything else.

      I enjoy Steam quite a bit, and agree that it is "DRM done right" (for the most part). However, even with Valve's own games I've had problems with offline mode. It might have something to do with updates, but it seems like if I have a game ready for offline mode, then later go online and the game gets updated, I have to re-launch it once to get it to go back to being available in offline mode. If games update in the background or I don't notice the update (which is often, because Steam is usually running in the background on my PC) then sometimes games that should be available offline aren't. It was in response to "how is Minecraft's offline mode different than Steam's".

    24. Re:Less is sometimes more by s_p_oneil · · Score: 2

      Speaking as a programmer who has worked on his own virtual worlds (sponeil.net), I can confidently make these two points:

      1) Any virtual world of such an enormous size will end up being a resource hog no matter how good the code is, ESPECIALLY if you allow modifications to that enormous world (which must be loaded, saved, and managed in memory).

      2) Didn't Notch start writing it in college, or immediately after? I don't know a single programmer that could write good code right out of college. Show me a developer that can't look at code he wrote a year ago and be ashamed of it, and I'll show you a crappy developer (because he's not continuing to learn). So cut him some slack, and don't be bitter that you didn't make millions from the crappy code that you wrote right out of college.

    25. Re:Less is sometimes more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No good. I get 10~12 fps on my 3 year old laptop. As weird as it may sound, it's still quite playable. But yeah, the fans max out pretty quickly even at the title screen.

    26. Re:Less is sometimes more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OptiFog is your friend

    27. Re:Less is sometimes more by secretcurse · · Score: 1

      I'm fairly certain (and I just checked wiki for what that's worth) that he didn't go to college at all. He just started programming when he was very young and he seems to be a really smart guy. Minecraft is definitely a resource hog, but the performance gets better with just about every release for me. So, that's a great sign since performance is getting better at the same time that more features are being added. To everyone that says the code is crap, write your own well-programmed game that millions of people want to play. I'd rather have a good implementation of a great idea than a great implementation of a good idea...

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    28. Re:Less is sometimes more by s_p_oneil · · Score: 1

      Good point, but I don't think "write your own well-programmed game that millions of people want to play" takes it far enough. I have a lot more respect for Notch than I do for the "Angry Birds" programmers. From a programming perspective, a simple 2D physics game is a no-brainer. They didn't even write their own physics engine, but even if they had, basic 2D physics isn't that hard. Generating, modeling, managing, rendering, and lighting an enormous 3D virtual world is orders of magnitude harder (even if it's blocky). To make one that can be modified is even worse because it means you can't just re-generate the data needed from a random seed when you need it. You have to play around with various file+directory structures to find the optimal way to store and index the modifications. We're talking about the potential of gigabytes or even terabytes of information if you modified every single block in a Minecraft world.

      Of course, I probably feel this way because I've worked on the same type of programming problem myself. But trust me when I say there's a reason a game like this hasn't been done before now. Notch probably beat everyone else to it because everyone else was going for a higher level of realism. Things like realistic clouds (volumetric and animated) and trees on a planet-wide scope are ridiculously hard to render. His "everything is made up of simple blocks" is actually a very elegant solution if you're happy with the level of realism. ;-)

    29. Re:Less is sometimes more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's actually the fact that pushing a crapton of easily modifiable blocks is quite damn heavy.
      This kind of game couldn't ever run on slower machines, even with much better programming.

  6. Game? by mwvdlee · · Score: 0

    I didn't even know MineCraft was a game.
    Seems more like a tech-demo to me.
    What gameplay elements are in there anyway?

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    1. Re:Game? by Lillebo · · Score: 2

      What gameplay elements are in there anyway?

      Engineering/red stone wiring. Spelunking. And patch 1.8...

    2. Re:Game? by hattig · · Score: 1

      Survival. Adventure (coming in 1.8).

      I guess that games have ends, so Minecraft can be more than a game. Like Lego, what are the gameplay elements of that? Some people just like creating, destroying, exploring, building, and even engineering.

      Minecraft is also horrendously addictive.

    3. Re:Game? by mcvos · · Score: 1

      I believe that at night, zombies come to eat you. But people seem to consider that more of a distraction of the real fun of Minecraft.

    4. Re:Game? by ifrag · · Score: 1

      Zombies are actually somewhat trivial and not really considered much of a threat by most players. The real problem is creepers because those will explode, dealing serious damage to both the player and whatever the player is building as well. The only thing worse to deal with is ghasts, however those only spawn in the nether and reasonable defenses can be sustained simply by blocking line of sight.

      --
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    5. Re:Game? by AndrewNeo · · Score: 1

      What gameplay elements are in there anyway?

      Your imagination. If you don't have one, then wait for the Adventure update.

    6. Re:Game? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      The word you're looking for is 'toy'. Lego and Minecraft are toys. This is not meant as a value judgment, but just to distinguish them from games. Games (whether monopoly, poker, or civilization) have rules, goals, and ends.

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    7. Re:Game? by operagost · · Score: 1

      and Photoshop.

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    8. Re:Game? by headLITE · · Score: 1

      Minecraft has rules. They limit how you move around in the world, what blocks you can mine/dig and how, what items you can create and how, when the sun goes up on the virtual sky and what happens then, how often you have to hit a pig with a shovel to get bacon and so on. It also has goals, although the ones that the game sets (achievements like "build a better pickaxe") are not particularly interesting; it does however have the potential for players to come up with their own goals ("build a huge castle") that supplement those the game provides. What it doesn't have is an end, but I would disagree with the notion that games are characterised by having a definite end. Many board games only end when all players agree they have nothing to do (consecutive passes clauses or similar), but if that is enough to satisfy your end constraint, it also works for Minecraft.

      Note, if you don't pay, you will not see most of this, so you might wrongfully classify Minecraft as a toy based on the free "classic" version which is indeed closer to a box of legos than a game.

    9. Re:Game? by JabberWokky · · Score: 1

      I believe you mean that Civilization is a game, whereas civilization would be a toy.

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    10. Re:Game? by adeft · · Score: 1

      I played the java based free version for about 20 minutes. I built a few gigantic staircases and burrowed into the ground. After that It seemed really not much fun. Am I missing something?

    11. Re:Game? by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      Yes, it's much much better than a game. It's a toy.

      Monopoly versus lego.

    12. Re:Game? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      Almost what ever you want. You can see maps of my server here:

      http://mc.minecraft.com/maps/

      --
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    13. Re:Game? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      sorry typed that wrong

      it's http://mc.bongaming.com/maps/

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    14. Re:Game? by yarnosh · · Score: 2

      I also question what makes Minecraft a game, but that's not really the point. The point is that Minecraft proved that many people will use a game environemnt as a sandbox completely independent of any actual gaming elements. While other games have provided a sandbox, they never went to far as to provide ONLY a sandbox. The sandbox was only the context for the game. And even then, you couldn't fundamentally alter the landscape (and have it persist) like you can in Minecraft.

    15. Re:Game? by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      None of which is really very game-like. There's no objective. No goals. No "winning" condition. What game elements there are (mobs, weapons) are really just bolted on. I got to the point in Minecraft where I simply turn off mobs. They were nothing more than an annoyance.

    16. Re:Game? by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Survival.

      You can "survive" in Minecraft by digging a hole in the ground and closing it off. Anything you do beyond that is just building things. The mobs are little more than an annoyance. I suspect "Adventure" mode in Minecraft will prove to be a dud. Much like adventure mode in Dwarf Fortress. Almost everyone plays in fortress mode because that's where the game is actually interesting and creative. If you want to play a nethack type adventure, there are far far better implementations.

      Like Lego, what are the gameplay elements of that?

      None. That's the point. Playing Minecraft with mobs turned on is like playing with legos where every tenth piece has a chance of giving you a paper cut.

    17. Re:Game? by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Minecraft has rules.

      But no goals.

      it does however have the potential for players to come up with their own goals ("build a huge castle") that supplement those the game provides.

      Minecraft provides no goals. Anything you do is made up by the player. Therefore it is a toy. Minecraft is to games as a baseball diamond is to sports.

      What it doesn't have is an end,

      Or even a middle.

      Many board games only end when all players agree they have nothing to do (consecutive passes clauses or similar), but if that is enough to satisfy your end constraint, it also works for Minecraft.

      That's not really an accurate comparison. Board games prescribe very specific interaction between players and they usually have some kind of scoring system. Minecraft has no such thing. Minecraft is an envrionment where people make up their own games, but it is not a game in itself.

    18. Re:Game? by Y-Crate · · Score: 3, Insightful

      None of which is really very game-like. There's no objective. No goals. No "winning" condition. What game elements there are (mobs, weapons) are really just bolted on. I got to the point in Minecraft where I simply turn off mobs. They were nothing more than an annoyance.

      Your critique is almost exactly the same one Will Wright received from game execs when he proposed "Sim City".

      Some people don't need to be guided and have their hands-held through from the beginning to the end of an experience. Sometimes the experience is what matters more than the existence of a winning condition. If you've put months, or even a year or more into a Minecraft world - who cares if the game has an end? (Though Notch is thinking about putting in one anyway to placate people who aren't satisfied)

      Minecraft is the natural extension of the legacy beginning with playing in the sandbox, building things with LEGO, and burning through an entire night on Sim City.

    19. Re:Game? by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Or just play one of the many superior adventure implementations already available. Minecraft Adventure mode will prove to be a big dud, mark my words. Minecraft without the ability to manipulate the world is pretty damn lame. The mechanics are really primitive. Minecraft is more like a prototyping tool for a better game.

    20. Re:Game? by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Nope, that's about it. It is really just a virtual lego set. Recent updates like redstone circuits make it a little more itneresting, but really it is just a giant virtual lego set... only not the small legos with specialized parts. More like the toddler version of legos with the huge blocks.

    21. Re:Game? by spongman · · Score: 2

      minecraft isn't for you. at least, not yet. it's for people who are able to conceive their own goals, and derive satisfaction from achieving those goals. people who understand there's more to the game than someone arbitrarily turning around and saying, "oh, that's it, you won!"

      kinda like life, really.

    22. Re:Game? by Sectoid_Dev · · Score: 1

      The thrill is for many people is designing redstone circuits to automate things, like mine carts and traps. Others like to be creative and build structures. I find some of that stuff interesting, but it's not my love. I haven't played minecraft seriously for a couple of months. Some more traditional RPG elements would be nice for me, but probably not others. Combat is a joke and and once you know how to set yourself up the first day, nothing is likely to hurt you, short of falling off a cliff or into deep lava. If you find a good cave system, then exploring can be fun, but again, combat is not a concern other than creepers but you just carry some food with you.

      I like the game, but I wish there was other things to do other than build.

    23. Re:Game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      World of Warcraft doesn't have an "end" and I would definitely consider it a game.

    24. Re:Game? by Unequivocal · · Score: 2

      I read an interesting blog years ago about the difference between a game and a toy. A game, as you suggest is goal-oriented with rules and often scores. A toy is open ended which can be applied towards one or more games or can be used for other purposes altogether which are still "fun." I think by that logic minecraft is a toy.. If you're looking for a pre-built game, it's probably not right for you.

    25. Re:Game? by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Your critique is almost exactly the same one Will Wright received from game execs when he proposed "Sim City".

      Not a critique so much as a clarification on what makes a game. Even SIm City is more of a game than Minecraft. Sim City has a generally clear goal of growing your city (though you could create a modest farming town if you wanted. but that doesn't last long). It isn't really even much of a sandbox in taht regard because you're extremely limited by how well your city is doing and how much income you can generate. It isn't like you can just construct building at will like Minecraft.

      Some people don't need to be guided and have their hands-held through from the beginning to the end of an experience.

      True, they can make up their own game. Which is fine, but that doesn't make Minecraft much of a game. It is a playing field, at best.

      (Though Notch is thinking about putting in one anyway to placate people who aren't satisfied)

      And it is going to fail because you can't bolt on an end game to something that wasn't designed as a game. It is like the mobs in Minecraft. They are an annoyance. They don't add anything. Some mobs carry valuable materials, but they're not essential. The number of creepers you have to kill to get a useful amount of gunpowder is just crazy. Stupid design.

    26. Re:Game? by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Actually, it is for me, I think. I am interested in being creative. I love legos. The problem is that Notch is not staying focused. He is trying to make Minecraft everything to everyone. Adding bits of adventure here, creativity there... but the two things just get in the way of each other. That's why he's been forced to create a whole separate adventure mode. They don't fit well together. At least not to the extremes that he would like. A better implementation of the blend of adventure and creativity would be Terraria. The problem with Terraria is that the adventure and creative aspects are fairly diluted, but at least it is playable as a game.

    27. Re:Game? by Nicolay77 · · Score: 1

      Minecraft has (internal) rules, and you can lose (die) therefore it is a game.

      The goal is not to lose.

      Now will you argue that Tetris is not a game?

      --
      We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
    28. Re:Game? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      You don't need "winning" conditions to be a game. As in role playing games.

    29. Re:Game? by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Minecraft has (internal) rules, and you can lose (die) therefore it is a game.

      Right, except dying has no consequence other than possibly losing a few items. And the internal rules are not game rules so much as just basic physics. Like "this type of block with behave like so." That does not a game make.

      The goal is not to lose.

      I don't know anyone who considers dying in Minecraft to be anything more than a minor annoyance. It is an element that could be taken out with very little impact on the overall experience. In fact, I think it should be taken out. I think all the role playing aspects currently in Minecraft are completely superfluous. It is almost like they were put in as an afterthought. Maybe as a bit of ambiance?

      Now will you argue that Tetris is not a game?

      No.

    30. Re:Game? by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Most role playing games have some objective. And even when they don't, they do have some measure of how well you're doing and some story to follow. And you can lose. Your character can die. But if you really don't have an objective or measure of progress, then your not really playing a role playing game so much as just role playing. Get it?

    31. Re:Game? by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      minecraft isn't for you. at least, not yet. it's for people who are able to conceive their own goals, and derive satisfaction from achieving those goals. people who understand there's more to the game than someone arbitrarily turning around and saying, "oh, that's it, you won!"

      kinda like life, really.

      So it's basically for people who are slightly more creative than a typical TV addict, but less creative or capable than people who use less limited environments like any of the "social MMO's" such as Second Life or There?

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    32. Re:Game? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      But you don't have to have an improving character or winning conditions or a measure of how well you're doing. Many do this but not all. This is still "play" and thus fits as a game for most people. But others argue that it's not a game because you're not keeping score and there's no winner. Then again even if you have a goal and a measure of success you still have players cooperating instead of competing, and this seriously messes with some people's ideas of what a game is.

    33. Re:Game? by spongman · · Score: 1

      i think your creativity must be way beyond mine if you can derive all that from what i said.

    34. Re:Game? by Dr.Boje · · Score: 1

      Dying in Minecraft when you are exploring a naturally-generated cave far away from your camp and are near the bottom of the world is frustrating, much more so than a "minor annoyance", especially if your diamond tools and armor end up landing in some lava. Why such hate for Minecraft? Go make your own game if you are so enlightened with what constitutes a game, I'm sure it would be the best thing since sliced bread.

    35. Re:Game? by Y-Crate · · Score: 1

      I played the java based free version for about 20 minutes. I built a few gigantic staircases and burrowed into the ground. After that It seemed really not much fun. Am I missing something?

      Imagination? When you've created entire cities connected by a switched subway network you'll understand why some people really dig it.

    36. Re:Game? by ShooterNeo · · Score: 1

      Mods add the smaller parts. Industrial Craft adds electricity, Integrated Circuits adds logic gates, Buildcraft adds automated resource handling, Planes adds airplanes and the player skills needed to fly them, and so forth. Minecraft as it is sold from Mojang is basically like buying a starter kit of basic legos without any of the really specialized stuff.

      As soon as the next version is released, it will be much, much easier to add mods and keep them working as the game is updated. This is because Notch has decided to stop "hiding" his legos from us, which prevents us from being able to easily see what he is doing and build on it.

    37. Re:Game? by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is incredibly frustrating and it adds nothing to the experience. You could take the mobs out and nothing would change except you'd be a little less frustrated. In fact, that's exactly what I do when if I get into Minecraft. I'm even to the point where mining is too much of a bother and I just give myself infinite TNT. Digging those tunnels is so pointless. No hate for Minecraft, I just think it could have been so much better had Notch focused more on the creative aspect rather than catering to the people who want it to be more like an adventure game. I honestly don't think it can be both. And ya, I paid for it. So I'm a tad disappointed.

    38. Re:Game? by Zancarius · · Score: 1

      The problem is that Notch is not staying focused. He is trying to make Minecraft everything to everyone.

      I think Notch is doing what Notch wants to do more than he is attempting to appease individual groups. And you know what? That's fine by me. It's his game.

      You've written a number of gripes in this thread toward Minecraft, and my immediate response is "Okay, you paid for it. If you don't like it, it's just 15 euros, so delete it and find something else." But that seems too obvious. While I can understand your frustration, it seems like a huge waste to reiterate the same disapproval over and over again: Why not spend that time writing mods to make it do something you want it to do (you might find some useful ones for Bukkit that achieve some of your goals)? Can't code and want someone else to do the work? Toss the idea out onto a forum related to Minecraft.

      In fact, I would suggest that to almost anyone. Don't like something? Grab a toolkit, hack away, and make something you do like. Who knows? Someone else might take interest and join you. You could turn it into an open source project, or keep it closed and make some money off of it.

      There's plenty of games I don't like, but I absolutely refuse to waste a dozen posts on Slashdot reiterating why I don't like them--that's far too dreary. I really sincerely think that you have some good points (I like Minecraft, but I generally don't bore easily either), and I suspect that if you were to put the effort into correcting what deficiencies you see either via modding Minecraft or via rolling your own game, you could very well have something good going on. Endless criticism of a game is okay, but I find that it isn't terribly productive, and considering that most people are fairly receptive to Minecraft, you're unlikely to find many allies except for the handful of very vocal anti-Minecraft types.

      --
      He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
    39. Re:Game? by Dr.Boje · · Score: 1

      Personally I look at it as survival mode... I've learned to be much more cautious while venturing into the depths and it would not be as fun without the threat of death; it's sort of like Nethack in that regard. Still, there should be a point to all the mining, maybe something like you need to collect enough of a specific ore so that you can build something to get off the planet, or you're trying to unearth some type of artifacts. The game still is technically in Beta though and I can't really knock it for being incomplete, but it is still a game in my eyes.

    40. Re:Game? by jbonomi · · Score: 1

      When I play minecraft, it is certainly a game. I set my own goals for construction and work within the framework provided by the game to achieve it. It's fun. I'm not sure what you're missing.

  7. Realism vs gameplay by sourcerror · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you want stuff blowing up realistically (i.e. destructible environment), you have to simulate it offline, as it's really computation intensive. So it will be "scripted". Minecraft can only get away with it because everything is a cube. Also I don't expect a sudden surge in cubic 3d games. Minecraft is a one time wonder, and it could be only pulled of by an independent developer.

    1. Re:Realism vs gameplay by daid303 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And still, Red Faction was blowing holes in walls in 2001.

      I say Terraria is the better game, even with it's 2D nature. Because it contains a lot more stuff to do.
      And building/mining isn't new. Look up "Clonk", it's going strong all the way back to the 486 era, and it has a lot more features then minecraft. It's only not 3D.

      The only wonder about Minecraft is the sudden amount of attention it got. It got lucky, that's all.

    2. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're missing the point entirely.

      It isn't about realism, its about being able to interact with *everything* in the game environment. In old games everything was indestructible and there were just the odd lever that you could pull and everything else was static. Then there was something akin to Ocarina of Time; where you could interact with some of the environment, be it cutting grass of moving boxes around, but the majority of things were still static. For example, if there was a pot on the ground you could break it and get some arrows, but a very similar looking bot on a window sill was pure decoration and could not be broken/interacted with; you could even walk through it.

      The trend with modern games, especially minecraft but I would argue others such as portal 2 or World in Conflict, is for there to be no difference between objects that are relevant to gameplay and purely aesthetic decor. If there is a tree in a village, it sets the mood and looks pretty but does nothing for gameplay. However, if I have the possibility of knocking it down and using it as a barricade, then the game is immensely more immersive and I have so many more options to play with. That, I agree, is entirely a good thing. What the tree looks like as it falls down and whether or not there is a realistic looking cloud of smoke as it crashes, I dont give two hoots about.

    3. Re:Realism vs gameplay by sourcerror · · Score: 1

      "And still, Red Faction was blowing holes in walls in 2001."

      And they don't look very reailistic because of the low particle number. Also, it's much easier to blow hole in a wall than to blow up a car, or something of more complicated geometry, not even mentioning the non-homogenous material quality and other stuff.

    4. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Instine · · Score: 1

      turn based game play also makes this possible. See Worms 3D, some years back (excellent game). Process client side, then distribute changes across the network while the players watch the pretty rendering . Perfect. Srsly I love that game.

      --
      Because you can - or because you should?
    5. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      Maybe my memory is off but I thought the holes that you could blow in walls only occured in very specific areas.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    6. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It got lucky, that's all.

      not really .. its just the right formula and well balanced.. and its an basic idea many had, BUT nobody got right so far..

      much like sim city.. people thought Will Wright was nuts when he made it.

      disclaimer: those were the best 10€ i spend on games ...

    7. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. It got lucky and happened to spread like wildfire on 4chan and Reddit at just the right time. The number of people actually playing the game regularly is fairly small.

    8. Re:Realism vs gameplay by hal2814 · · Score: 1

      Have you actually played Portal 2? Portal 2 isn't an environment you interact with. It's a set of puzzles you solve. Almost everything that can be interacted with in Portal 2 is there specifically to solve the puzzle at hand. In fact, most of the time when I've been stuck on a level I find my way through it by looking for walls you can open a Portal on because you are very limited on where exactly you can open portals (even moreso than the first Portal).

    9. Re:Realism vs gameplay by w_dragon · · Score: 1

      Some levels you could destroy just about anything, some levels were pretty much indestructible. It was still better than most games where you shoot a window with a rocket launcher and the window survives.

    10. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on what you mean by "more stuff" and what kind of games you like playing. In adventuring, Terraria has more enemies and a larger variety of individual things to build and even 3 boss fights, but it kind of wears a bit. Once you've hit end game, you're pretty much done and there's not much more to do. Building is pretty limited and entirely decorative.

      Minecraft, on the other hand, isn't really about killing monsters. At least, not at the moment. If that's the only kind of game you like, you'll find Minecraft boring. Instead, Minecraft is about world building. With minecarts and redstone, you can create some pretty impressive and functional structures. Redstone by itself is fascinating as it can simulate any Boolean logic you'd like to create. People (insane people) have created fully functional CPUs within the game. Now with pistons which can interact with redstone in various ways, you can create a large number of new things. It's insanely creative and Terraria can't even come close to matching that sort of experience.

      Personally, I see myself continuing to play Minecraft for years (started playing in Alpha), yet I've already gotten bored with Terraria. Don't get me wrong, Terraria is worth every bit of the paltry $10 they're selling it for. They're just different games when it comes down to it and for me Minecraft simply has more staying power.

    11. Re:Realism vs gameplay by lordSaurontheGreat · · Score: 2

      There's nothing lucky about building a digital lego set.

      --
      Consider yourself spoken to.
    12. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Piata · · Score: 0

      Minecraft is probably the most original and interesting game to come out in the past 5 years so I don't think it has anything to do with luck.

      I bought Minecraft over a year ago and I still enjoy tinkering with it. The game is the ultimate sandbox. It has a universal and timeless appeal. To say "the only wonder about Minecraft is the sudden amount of attention it got" is doing the game a great diservice. Minecraft is a complex, nuanced game where the player decides what his experience will be and it can be anything from exploration, combat or construction. The only gameplay limits are your ingenuity and creativity. How is Minecraft NOT deserving of all the attention and acclaim it's received?

    13. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what? You could detonate the supports of your enemy's base in multiplayer and kill their entire team. That game was so much fun. I don't care how bad the graphics are if I can do that.

    14. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Red Faction used "scripted" destruction, to borrow the term from the OP. Any and everything that could be destroyed had been configured to blow up in a specific way, so while you could blow up this wall, you may not be able to blow up that wall if the developers forgot to make it destructible or simply didn't want it to be destructible. If you want truly destructible terrain, you need to set things like the durability for each object, its brittleness, a way to quickly calculate what the shape of the new object should be and whether it would have broken into multiple pieces, and a mechanism for dynamically applying a texture to the interior of those pieces once the original object has been destroyed.

      One of my undergraduate professors was interested in destructible terrain and had done some research with subdivision surfaces in order to dynamically set textures for the interiors of broken objects, with the idea of applying it to gaming in mind. He showed us a few screenshots from games he had developed as a grad student that applied those concepts to an FPS he had built, and the results looks much different than the types of things you see in Red Faction.

      The gameplay possibilities were also wildly different as well. If you've ever seen or played Ace of Spades, you know what a difference truly destructible terrain can have on gameplay. Now imagine a high-fidelity version of that, where everything isn't just cubes, and you can imagine the possibilities.

    15. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Fractal+Dice · · Score: 1

      I think you underestimate the simulation power of cellular automata. Also, by having the client render local surfaces with splines, you can remove the "blockiness" on the client without any additional overhead on the server.

    16. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Terraria has inspired me to try a bit of indie game development.
      It took two developers only five months to build, and they released it for $10. According to my Steam page, I've spent over 100 hours playing it. Every time they release an update, they add a significant amount of new content, and I feel compelled to play it again.
      I think it would be great if the industry could get rid of this obsession with 6-10 hour "AAA" titles that take a hundred million dollars, dozens of developers, and years to create.

    17. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd love to see similar games. I'd probably buy every single one of 'em. A fairly decent game mechanic in a wildly customizable world is nirvana for me.

    18. Re:Realism vs gameplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea is far older. Apparently you don't know dig-dug...

    19. Re:Realism vs gameplay by daid303 · · Score: 1

      It is luck if you are one of many who made a digital lego set, and suddenly sell it like wildfire.

    20. Re:Realism vs gameplay by daid303 · · Score: 1

      If you think minecraft is SO original then you are just one of the many people that think the same, and just haven't found the source of 'different' games.

      Yes, minecraft creates an environment where you can decide what to do. So did Clonk up from version 3 or so. I'm not saying minecraft is bad, I'm just saying it got lucky. It's a combination that sells minecraft, luck is in that combination.

  8. I'm unconvinced... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I have nothing against Minecraft as a game, the level of world manipulation isn't just some incidental feature that the gaming industry Must Take Note Of.

    The level of world manipulation is pretty much what makes the game what it is; but also makes the game weird and idiosyncratic in ways that wouldn't obviously transfer very well to other sorts of games. Anybody remember 'Red Faction', that old FPS with the zOMG Destructable Environments!!! It sucked. Faced with the fact that they'd either have to break environmental destructability at certain plot-points, or just have players nibbling in a straight line through the level, the environmental destructability was reduced to little more than window dressing.

    Really, in any game that isn't largely about metagaming emergent behavior in the game's rules(y hello thar, Dwarf Fortress, we were just talking about your much shallower and more popular kid cousin...), being capriciously arbitrarily limited sucks("Why can I pick up some books and not others?" "Oh, because some books are 'Quest Items', and you need to collect 143 of them; but the art team couldn't be bothered to actually model the rest, so all non-quest bookshelves are just textured rectangles.") but world manipulability beyond a certain level is useful pretty much exclusively for breaking the game's mechanics(acceptable in singleplay, if not obviously worth the tradeoff in developer effort, pure death in multiplay, unless you are the griefer who is currently grinning in anticipation...)

    1. Re:I'm unconvinced... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      simple fix: in games where you have some weapons that cause environmental destruction and some that don't, don't allow a player to have the former during points where having them can disrupt the plot.

    2. Re:I'm unconvinced... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, that's exactly the sort of "NO! You are playing with the sandbox Wrong!" design that makes "sandbox" worse than just a reasonably well crafted linear game. The "So, here's a puzzle, how do I solve it?" gameplay is contrived; but the "So, here's a world of apparently infinite possibility, what did the developer want me to do?" is just plain annoying.

    3. Re:I'm unconvinced... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then when someone has a weapon that can do environmental damage, make the ammunition extremely limited. I.E. if you are in an area where a rocket launcher is needed, give the player a single rocket. problem solved.

    4. Re:I'm unconvinced... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's just making rocket launcher a %COLOR% keycard that Doomguy had to find in order to advance to the next area. That's just novelty, not an innovative use of the technology.

    5. Re:I'm unconvinced... by CraftyJack · · Score: 1

      That was the case in the last level of Perfect Dark. Kinda irritating.

    6. Re:I'm unconvinced... by headLITE · · Score: 1

      Ironically, you can craft books and bookshelves in Minecraft. The books' only purpose is being an ingredient in the bookshelf recipe, and the bookshelf is full of coloured rectangles that you can't take out.

    7. Re:I'm unconvinced... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1

      I also played red faction and you are completely right, the emergent behavior that this allows does not work with many game types.

      It sounds neat if you don't really think about the consequences of allowing it.

    8. Re:I'm unconvinced... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I would really like a game where you can pick up every individual book. And in theory, it doesn't have to be that hard to do from a level design perspective; you just have to model one book, build things which contain books out of books or out of things that decompose into books when affected, and then alter the book model for the quest items. (Usually it's enough to make them shiny...) Handling all the possible books you could end up with in the world is, of course, potentially a monumental task.

      I don't think such a game will appear as a single-player one-off any time soon, but it seems like some sort of open source game with a persistent world could lead to that sort of thing eventually. If there's lots of different servers that contain all these objects then the task becomes possible... Peer to peer like the multitude of web servers.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:I'm unconvinced... by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      So... basically you've just reduced envirnmental manipulation to a minor detail. The point is you can't have it both ways. You can't have strong game play and make the sandbox a first class element.

    10. Re:I'm unconvinced... by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      It sounds neat if you don't really think about the consequences of allowing it.

      Kinda like how everyone loved to fantasize about a multiplayer implementation of Nethack until they sat down and really considered that Nethack is what it is because it is essentially turn based, not live action. To do it right, you'd have to let everyone take turns in serial. So you move one block, everyone else moves. Then you get to move one more... That would suck.

    11. Re:I'm unconvinced... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Why can I pick up some books and not others?" "Oh, because some books are 'Quest Items', and you need to collect 143 of them; but the art team couldn't be bothered to actually model the rest, so all non-quest bookshelves are just textured rectangles."

      Fallout 3 does rather well with this. The world is full of random crap that you can pick up, and yes, it does have some sell value. However, the price is so low that it's pretty much a waste of time and inventory to collect up. It achieves realism without breaking the game.

  9. Hell by ledow · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Every single game for the last 20 years has claimed "destructible environments" (some of them erroneously, with the word "fully" as a prefix). It's the same thing, in essence.

    It's been a want of gamers for decades, since voxels were around at least, and it's never really happened how we expect, despite being promised with every big hit.

    Even Minecraft doesn't have a fully destructible environment - some blocks can't be moved or changed, and there are depth and height limits, not to mention width wrap-arounds through the use on fixed-length int's on map indexes.

    Unfortunately, such a thing would fundamentally change a game. Imagine a 3D FPS. You want to take out the enemy base. Hell, with enough time, you can just move the local mountain across on top of it, or tunnel up into it, or punch a window through the local mountain to make an inaccesible sniper-spot, or literally just flatten the whole place with artillery so you can walk through the ashes and collect all the pickups. It doesn't make for a fun game, necessarily, but it just one of many features that a good games developer can add to a game to make it more interesting. It's the same category as realistic physics, proper ballistics, or better AI teammates. Useful in the right hands, game-ruining in the wrong ones.

    Yes, it would be really cool to have zombie/aliens game where you arrange the furniture to build barricades, but in playability terms it can create a nightmare, especially multiplayer. Hell, people whine that they (or the AI) get stuck on map objects that took years to position in the ideal place - what makes you think a billion random objects that can all move everywhere, combined with overpowered abilities to move the earth, will make it easier to get from A to B?

    The only way to do it is realistically, which is gameplay-hell. If you want a tunnel into the enemy camp, you'll run out of food and die before you get anywhere, the sounds of digging will be heard, you'll kill yourself through exhaustion and you'll have to put the soil somewhere (which will draw attention). And if you don't get caught by the enemy, it'll still take MONTHS to get there.

    (Offtopic: How cool would a well-made free-form Great Escape game be, though?)

    1. Re:Hell by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      Even Minecraft doesn't have a fully destructible environment - some blocks can't be moved or changed, and there are depth and height limits, not to mention width wrap-arounds through the use on fixed-length int's on map indexes.

      You seem to be confusing "fully destructible" with "infinite". AFAIK the only non-destructible blocks are bedrock and clouds. The "borderlands" where the int pointers break down and the everything goes crazy are further away than you'd get in normal gameplay.

      But you're right - just because its good for Minecraft doesn't mean its good for every game. Part of the fun of Minecraft is the whacked-out physics, and the retro graphics nicely mirror the block-based theme.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    2. Re:Hell by dkf · · Score: 1

      The only way to do it is realistically, which is gameplay-hell. If you want a tunnel into the enemy camp, you'll run out of food and die before you get anywhere, the sounds of digging will be heard, you'll kill yourself through exhaustion and you'll have to put the soil somewhere (which will draw attention). And if you don't get caught by the enemy, it'll still take MONTHS to get there.

      I'm reminded of a book by Iain M. Banks that included this concept.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    3. Re:Hell by Scalarr · · Score: 1

      Destructable is one thing, but how about manipulable, reconfigurable and ultimately constructable?

      --
      http://twitter.com/#!/Scalarr
    4. Re:Hell by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 1

      I agree. Not to mention that a fully interactive environment misses the point - it's not the end-all-and-be-all of gaming, but rather the vehicle for a certain type of game. A game, just like any other form of narrative, needs to guide the player along a certain story line. There has to be a point. Just as the real universe has physical laws for a reason, so do games; having malleable worlds for the sake of "realism" is only a single aspect of gaming, not the ultimate evolution of gaming in its entirety.

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    5. Re:Hell by ledow · · Score: 1

      By definition, it's not fully destructible if you have non-destructible blocks, wherever they are :-)

    6. Re:Hell by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, but there is such a thing as applying definitions realistically. Non-destructible bedrock at the lower boundary of the map is hardly in the same league as the sort of fudges in other games claiming "fully destructible" environments, and even in meatspace, whacking fog with a pickaxe is pretty ineffective.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    7. Re:Hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even Minecraft doesn't have a fully destructible environment - some blocks can't be moved or changed, and there are depth and height limits, not to mention width wrap-arounds through the use on fixed-length int's on map indexes.

      While you're correct on the depth and height, there aren't any "wrap-arounds" in the game. Notch uses Floats to represent X and Y (well, X and Z in this case) making it impossible to go more than around 12 million blocks in any direction before the floats become too imprecise to properly place blocks in the environment. The environment is still generated, you just can't traverse very far into it. It takes 820 hours to walk that far. I believe the terrain stops generating at around 32 billion blocks, but that's just a theoretical number.

    8. Re:Hell by headLITE · · Score: 1

      Why do you feel that the game has to guide the player? I've played many pen&paper RPG sessions where another player guided the group and the actual game was only used as a framework that provided the rules and colourful sketches of monsters you could encounter in dungeons.

      The same used to be true for MUDs and MUSHes and so on where you could likewise reconfigure the environment. Minecraft reminds me a lot of the MUSHes of old except the graphical interface is easier to use.

    9. Re:Hell by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      Kinda like Need for Speed 2, boasting an interactive 3d landscape, meaning that you could run into street signs and knock them over.

    10. Re:Hell by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, such a thing would fundamentally change a game. Imagine a 3D FPS. You want to take out the enemy base. Hell, with enough time, you can just move the local mountain across on top of it, or tunnel up into it, or punch a window through the local mountain to make an inaccesible sniper-spot, or literally just flatten the whole place with artillery so you can walk through the ashes and collect all the pickups. It doesn't make for a fun game, necessarily, but it just one of many features that a good games developer can add to a game to make it more interesting.

      There's no need to imagine such a game. You should check out Ace of Spades sometime. It's basically a Minecraft FPS, and it plays out very similarly to what you suggested, from what little I've seen of my friends playing it.

    11. Re:Hell by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Even Minecraft doesn't have a fully destructible environment - some blocks can't be moved or changed, and there are depth and height limits, not to mention width wrap-arounds through the use on fixed-length int's on map indexes.

      It does though, for practical purposes. You're just complaining that the universe is not infinite in size. And that's not really fair. The problem with Minecraft is not that it isn't fully destructible. The problem is that it has almost no actual game mechanics. Monsters in game are pretty much an afterthought. It was like "Hmm, we need to give the player some motivation to start... so lets create some monsters that will annoy him if he doesn't build a shelter." But after that, the monsters don't get any harder and they end up just beign an annoyance while you try to be creative. Even the whole "mining" aspect gets annoying. I got to the point where where I just gave my character infinite TNT to blow things up instead of spending hours digging holes. Next step is to give myself infinite EVERYTHING and forego all of the original game mechanics so I can focus on creating things.l

    12. Re:Hell by Fractal+Dice · · Score: 1

      Destructable terrain is not what minecraft is about. Cellular automata creating a dynamic world is what makes minecraft tick. Destructable/craftable terrain is just a side effect that you get almost for free..

  10. No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It barely works in Minecraft. Yeah, it can make for a pretty cliff, waterfall, cave basin, forest, etc. but it's still an empty world that relies entirely on the player to populate and to differentiate from every other area that was randomly generated as well.

    Minecraft, as it is, no more a game than a set of legos is a game. It's neat. It's fun. It allows impressive works of creativity, but is it a game like Mario? No. World of Warcraft? Halo? Need for Speed? Madden? Amnesia? You could make it a platformer but what's the point when you can just build/dig to where you need to go? Where can Minecraft go as far as game opportunities go? Considering how deep it is now, it would be better off as a platforming game set inside a computer so you can dick around with redstone because that's the only deep thing about Minecraft right now.

    Some mods do better but in the end, it's still lego pieces. Here's short list of ones that I feel really expand upon the game:
    Better Than Wolves
    Industrialcraft

    And there's tons more that increase variety of mobs, items, terrain and foliage.

    1. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      Should have been a third link there for Buildcraft.

      Here's a vid of Industrialcraft and Buildcraft working together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NlONSyvz6k

    2. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by Gideon+Wells · · Score: 1

      Not is adding village and NPC generation in a future patch. Don't confuse "not added" out of time constraint or no desire for "doesn't work". Combat is getting revamped. Buried, abandoned ruins are a work in progress that Notch has been revealing screenshots of.

      Minecraft is getting there.

      --
      by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
    3. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by Syberz · · Score: 1

      Right now it's just a big sandbox, I think that the Adventure Update (due in September at some point) will turn Minecraft into an actual game. It promises NPC villages, strongholds, an XP system and more.

      --
      ~Syberz
    4. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Not is adding village and NPC generation in a future patch. Don't confuse "not added" out of time constraint or no desire for "doesn't work". Combat is getting revamped. Buried, abandoned ruins are a work in progress that Notch has been revealing screenshots of.

      Minecraft is getting there.

      Time constraint? Wrong. Notch and co. have had an absurd amount of time to do something interesting with Minecraft and haven't. It's strictly the "no desire" part. The last time Notch had a desire to put any effort into Minecraft was approaching an entire year ago (the Halloween Update). The only reason Notch is working on anything at all right now for the game is because Terraria has thoroughly embarrassed and shamed him into doing so in hopes of bringing back some of that playerbase. Without Terraria, you'd still be getting the same awful non-patches every four months. Minecraft fans should be thanking the Terraria devs, buying their game and donating money for their work in not only producing their own superior game, but apparently for producing the first actual Minecraft content patch since last October.

      But even that won't stop the Adventure Update from being a buggy, half-assed, unfinished and abandoned mess like everything else in the game. Watch.

    5. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 0

      I'm going to have to disagree. It'll still be dependent on randomly generated terrain and any structures will designed ahead of time like set pieces. NPCs will have very limited interactions with the player simply due to the fact that there's no overarching design or direction. It just doesn't work with randomly generated terrain.

      If Notch designs dungeons end to end and let's that structure overwrite the terrain, I could see that working. That or he goes full on Terraria with dungeons and summoned bosses. I'm not saying that's bad but it does again show that Minecraft is a lego set and the most fun and creativity isn't coming from Notch.

    6. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by hibiki_r · · Score: 1

      Have you never played Nethack? Most levels are randomly generated, and yet it's definitely a game. It is theoretically possible to turn Minecraft into a game.

      Will it only take 2-3 more months to get there? I doubt it, but I'd consider it perfectly doable in 6 months.

      Now, the saddest thing about Minecraft is that notch has pretty much sat for monts, doing things that didn't in any way, shape or form make Minecraft take a serious direction: If Minecraft was supposed to be a box of legos, he should have put less emphasis on random mobs. If it was supposed to be a game, it could have started to add more game-like features. But no, Terraria had to be released, just to prove that one can build something minecraft-like that is also a game, before Notch woke up and actually started working on making the game something more than a box of potential.

    7. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Notch really needs to focus and decide once and for all whether he wants the Minecraft to be a game or a virtual lego set. Can't have both. One will just get in the way of the other. I honestly can't play the stupid thing anymore because the whole mob/combat/mining thing is just annoyance when playing creative. And the creative aspect is pointless in adventure mode, which is not really all that interesting to begin with. It is going to take a lot more than just a few tweaks to make any kind of Minecraft adventure mode worthwhile.

    8. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      No, i'm pretty sure it will still be half-assed. Notch thinks he can just add random features and call it a game. What he lacks is the ability to really tie it all together.

    9. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      I believe the adventure mode would be player designed. You'd download static adventure maps and world manipulation would be turned off. My prediction though is that adventure mode will be a dud and people will just want to build stuff and use the multiplayer servers as a sort of Second Life for geeks.

    10. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by Syberz · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but so far the community has managed to "tie it together" on its own, maybe the same will happen with the adventure update?

      --
      ~Syberz
    11. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Eh, maybe. I dunno. I just know I've lost interest in Minecraft. I built and decorated my underwater castles. There's really not much more to do. Adventure update just sounds like it is trying to spread the Minecraft theme a little too thin. I'd really love to see them drop all adventure aspects and go all out into the creative aspects. More craftable items. More granular control over constructions, etc. The huge block size gets a little old. Sometimes you just want to construct a real curve, ya know? What would be neat is an implementation of Dwarf Fortress with the Minecraft engine. ;-)

    12. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's got "adventure mode" coming out in update 1.8 (presumably)

      And the mods I play with do make it more of a "game" in the sense you're speaking of.

      What I like about it, however, and what most other people scoff at, is it is a game that doesn't revolve 100% around the idea of killing stuff for fun. Yes, there are monsters, but they become a minor element after the initial start. After that it is more about design. I'm hoping they push more in that direction.

      Imagine if there was a Myst type game with this level of manipulation.

    13. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      At the risk of further troll moderation, what's there to imagine? Can't get into the tower? Lure a creeper to the door or kill them elsewhere and make TNT blocks or punch the door to death or build a column of dirt next to it or punch holes in the wall until you can fit through. It's great that you can dig through everything but bedrock and it's cool that you can build stuff, but both of those aspects ruin adventuring unless they are intentionally hampered by someone creating a level (thus ruining the strength of randomly generated terrain).

    14. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by tecnico.hitos · · Score: 1

      Randomly generated content does work. Quite well, actually. See Spelunky, as an example. Not only that, but the entire genre of roguelikes is defined by randomly generated content and it has been for quite some time.

      Of course Minecraft isn't like Mario or any other game, it has won its place due to its own merits. Although it isn't completely unlike Amnesia in the sense that many players can tell tales of silent tension and desperate flights, but I digress.

      You have to remember that Minecraft isn't finished yet. It started as just lego pieces, but it greatly increased in complexity. It's still a sandbox, but it's more like a living (albeit simple graphically) world each new update. While it probably won't be as complex as Dwarf Fortress (which is also an astounding game based on randomly generated content), it is easier to get immersed into.

      Minecraft is about exploring as well as creating. It isn't about platforming and probably wouldn't be better if it was. But if that's what you want, there is Terraria.

      --
      The good, the evil and the vacuum tubes.
    15. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by protektor · · Score: 1

      What you are describing is clearly a lack of design focus and skill. This is the same exact problem a lot of indie titles face and some open source games. They have all this interesting tech ideas in them but there is no game design and game development skill applied to them so they end up as interesting toys for awhile and then get boring quickly because there is no clear design and no clear purpose for the game. This is where an experienced game designer begins to show his worth. An experienced game designer can add that level of focus and consistency that is needed to turn it from a neat/interesting/cute idea into a real game that you want to play over and over again. Some people think a designer doesn't really do all that much other than come up with the basic idea or ideas of a game, and that is not the case as the unfocused nature of Minecraft shows.

    16. Re:No. Randomly generated content doesn't work by protektor · · Score: 1

      I am not saying there is anything wrong with Minecraft but it doesn't have any game design. Creating a bunch of things and seeing what players like and what works and then adding or removing, that is not game design. It's the idea of throw everything on the wall and see what sticks. Minecraft is very similar to Gary's Mod in terms of "play" style. There isn't a game, just something cool to play with and make your own stuff. There are clearly people who like that, but I would think that the ability to capture people's attention long term is going to be a problem. Just like a good novel there should be some reason to come back and experience it again to experience a story or idea again. If the concept is build your own experience then getting around to returning to it has a much higher re-entry level and that discourages the desire to come back and re-experience something because it was a product of your time and those around you contributing at the time. Basically you can't re-experience it again because it is gone and it is not repeatable. Not everyone likes to re-read a book or watch a movie again, but there is a decent percentage of the population that does. The same is true of games and you will see people talking about going back and playing a favorite game again or a game that resonated with the person. Playing with Legos 6 months or a year later does not have the same experience as when you first played with them.

  11. Lay off the crack. by the_raptor · · Score: 2

    I love Minecraft but it is hardly going to change the gaming industry. Minecraft isn't the first game that allowed players to manipulate the terrain*, I was digging tunnels and building fortresses back in the mid-90's with the Worms series. Hell, Minecraft is based off Infiniminer, there isn't much real originality or ground breaking in it. What I think Minecraft did was capture the zeitgeist. There is a large retro movement going on at the moment, and many Gen-X and Y gamers are nostalgic for the simple games of the 8-bit era. Minecraft took that 8-bit styling and gave us a box of blocks to do whatever the hell we want with.

    It isn't ground breaking, and it won't change the face of gaming because people still want those other gaming experiences. You don't need two different "box of blocks" games. Even if the terrain manipulation craze took off it would be quickly stopped by the technical limitations of current consoles (which are the target for most games).

    Also don't forget that people like nVidia have been banking on physics heavy games taking off (eg with their system where their GPU's can also do physics processing) for years and it simply hasn't happened. Partially because game developers focus on the consoles, which have limited processing power by modern standards, and partially because most people simply don't care that much.

    * Red Faction was doing this in 3D in the 2001.

    --

    ========
    CINC, 4th Penguin Legion
    1. Re:Lay off the crack. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      How can you say Minecraft isn't ground breaking? That's pretty much all it is.

    2. Re:Lay off the crack. by sjwt · · Score: 1

      "I was digging tunnels and building fortresses back in the mid-90's with the Worms series."

      Bleh, back in my day, if we wanted to blow up the terrain we played scorched earth.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched_Earth_(video_game)

      --
      You have 5 Moderator Points!
      Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
    3. Re:Lay off the crack. by Nighttime · · Score: 1

      Bravo, Mr AC, bravo.

      --
      I've got a fever and the only prescription is more COBOL.
    4. Re:Lay off the crack. by ifrag · · Score: 1

      While scorched earth was fun, it did feel a bit unbalanced due to some of the weapons. I preferred Tank Wars for more competitive gameplay. It still did have some rather strong weaponry as well, but I don't think anything as ridiculous as a "Death's Head".

      --
      Fear is the mind killer.
    5. Re:Lay off the crack. by Sabathius · · Score: 1

      Obligatory "get off my lawn" game reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lode_Runner Digging and building since 1983.

    6. Re:Lay off the crack. by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      The main reason PhysX hasnt taken off is because ATI and NV split the market and only one player has the tech. IF both NV and ATI supported PhysX we'd see a hell of alot more of it, maybe even GPUs with PhysX co-processors built in.

      --
      Good-bye
    7. Re:Lay off the crack. by uigrad_2000 · · Score: 1

      It's not ground-breaking. It is basically a limited version of Roller Coaster Tycoon, where your movement speed is limited as if you were actually living in the world that you are building. Nothing about the tech is actually new.

      What is new is the social aspect. In RCT, I made lots of amazing creations, but never was able to show any of them off. Last night, I spent 2 hours building my own creation in Minecraft, though, and then spent 1 hour touring construction sites of other people on my server, and showing them what I had done. This is what makes it addicting.

      I personally think that Minecraft is not that great of a game (if that term is even accurate). Even with texture packs, the graphics look 10-15 years old. The number of craftable items is low (only 1 one kind of armor, available in 4 different durabilities). The number of items you can find in the world is tiny (compared to games like Terraria or Eve Online). The server stability is weak. The built in tools for running a server are minimal. The mod support is promised, but currently very lacking. The monsters have bad AI. The combat is not interesting. The physics are weird and generally bad. The only thing that is new in Minecraft is redstone, and as cool as redstone is, that's not why people get sucked into the game.

      I see the genre as having some promise. Eventually, someone is going to make an equivalent game that runs as a facebook app. When that happens, watch out.

      --
      Free unix account: freeshell.org
    8. Re:Lay off the crack. by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      Look up, that was the joke flying way over your head.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    9. Re:Lay off the crack. by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      Woosh!!

      mc.bongaming.com for a great server.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    10. Re:Lay off the crack. by demonbug · · Score: 1

      Woosh.

    11. Re:Lay off the crack. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And we can even reach back a little further for destructible environments:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_invaders

    12. Re:Lay off the crack. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a whole host of reasons why hardware accelerated physics hasn't taken off. You've got a chicken/egg issue, where the developer needs to actively spend a bunch of time integrating and constructing a game to make use of the physics. You've got significant performance trade offs, as the increase in screen geometry requires the developer scale back on other visuals. Note that these two hurdles never existed with the advent of 3d acceleration, as the benefits with 3d acceleration allowed for both texture filtering and performance improvements without need for the developer to alter their gameplay, create new art assets, etc. Then you have the issue of the wedge that's created between single player and multiplayer game design. In a multiplayer environment your complex physics can really only be limited to client side visual effects. So whatever cool and pretty super complex destructible buildings you have in your single player game could never carry over to the multiplayer portion.

    13. Re:Lay off the crack. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The mod support is promised, but currently very lacking.

      Lacking? They're handing out the complete source code to those who sign the licens, how could they possible do better?

      Bukkit ftw.

    14. Re:Lay off the crack. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, you break some trees too.... ;-)

    15. Re:Lay off the crack. by hawk · · Score: 1

      Kids. Harumph.

      In *my* day, when we wanted to blow up the terrain, we went outside and blew up the terrain.

      And then ran before the neighbor recognized us or the fire department arrived! :)

      hawk

    16. Re:Lay off the crack. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Preach it Brotha, Amen!!!

  12. No by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There have been construction games before, the Sim series comes to mind. Transport Tycoon. Granted these games had more of a goal in their world construction but still.

    It is like saying that since Up! was such a succesfull movie, every movie must now be 3D rendered. Or indeed that since Terry Pratchett made a hit by not using chapters, books no longer should have chapters.

    Stop saying "X is good, everything should be X". Secret sauce on a McBurger is great so they should put it on EVERYTHING.

    And as for adjustable, the world is very square in minecraft, should every game have this simpistic view?

    For that matter, do I really want a totally user transformable multiplayer game for every game type? Forget teamkillers now you get people bricking their team in.

    The author needs to get out of 10yr old mode, things can be different from each other. I know that is a hard concept but someday you will realize that the A-team is NOT the answer to entertainment you once thought it was.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:No by itsdapead · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is like saying that since Up! was such a succesfull movie, every movie must now be 3D rendered. Or indeed that since Terry Pratchett made a hit by not using chapters, books no longer should have chapters.

      You forget the Zeroth Amendment of the US Constitution: If some is good, more is better.

      What Minecraft could really teach the industry is "don't get so big that every game has development costs the size of the national debt of a small country: then you can afford to take risks instead of playing safe and re-creating the last game with better graphics".

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    2. Re:No by Scalarr · · Score: 1

      TTD is a good example and should probably me mentioned in this context. It does indeed have much of the experiential qualities regarding whole world manipulation (WWM) that I wanted to elevate. And before that we had populous and SimCity. But they don't feel as much paradigmatic as experiencing first person WWM. I guess I need to be more clear about that I'm talking about experiential qualities in first person gaming. I'm truly sorry for being a bit childish about this, and I totally agree that things both could and often should be different - even opinions :)

      --
      http://twitter.com/#!/Scalarr
    3. Re:No by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid that, you, sir, have hit the entire mindset behind the entertainment industry. Once a CEO sees one good idea that is making lots of money, they will promptly push their company into making something similar so that they can hop on the gravy train. Problem is, as you point out, a concept that works well in one game may not even be desirable in another. It really is like a bunch of 10 year olds going "me too!!1!1!"

      Witness the push to make EVERY movie EVER in 3D that is taking place in Hollywood. Of course the good directors (i.e. Christopher Nolan) resist it when its not appropriate (which is pretty much all the time), but most of the others just see the dollar signs that movies like Avatar made, and a green mist descends on their vision. 3D is cool and all, but its not good for 99% of movies. The result is tons of shitty 3D movies (the 3D is shit, not the movie although those generally are too). It really adds nothing to a movie but the surcharge, but thats all the CEOs see. Also, the CEO never realizes WHY the idea was successfull in the first place, so ther are never able to create something that fits to it, trying rather to shoehorn it into everything.

      Therefore, expect to see tons more "fully destructable environments", "world-building experiences", and "transformable user made content" in tons of new games. Why? Because the boss, who has no idea what those things really mean from a technical or gameplay perspective, wants it.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    4. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There have been construction games before, the Sim series comes to mind. Transport Tycoon. Granted these games had more of a goal in their world construction but still.

      It is like saying that since Up! was such a succesfull movie, every movie must now be 3D rendered. Or indeed that since Terry Pratchett made a hit by not using chapters, books no longer should have chapters.

      Stop saying "X is good, everything should be X". Secret sauce on a McBurger is great so they should put it on EVERYTHING.

      And as for adjustable, the world is very square in minecraft, should every game have this simpistic view?

      For that matter, do I really want a totally user transformable multiplayer game for every game type? Forget teamkillers now you get people bricking their team in.

      The author needs to get out of 10yr old mode, things can be different from each other. I know that is a hard concept but someday you will realize that the A-team is NOT the answer to entertainment you once thought it was.

      What about Frank's red hot sauce. I put that s**t on everything.

    5. Re:No by vgerclover · · Score: 1

      It is like saying that since Up! was such a succesfull movie, every movie must now be 3D rendered.

      What was the last 2D animated movie that you saw?

    6. Re:No by deadcrow · · Score: 0

      I actually laughed out loud at this. I can't wait to have some idiots, like the kind that stay at the spawn points and shoot at each other and spin around, brick me in!!!

      --
      I'm just "this guy", you know?
    7. Re:No by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Ponyo

    8. Re:No by vgerclover · · Score: 1

      Japanese animation, also known as Anime. Fads are different in different places :)

    9. Re:No by ErikZ · · Score: 1

      Princess and the Frog.

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
    10. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, now I don't agree. Up!, tho' a great movie, did not break any ground. It was just another film doing what other films do. Avatar, overrated tho' it was, could at least be described as groundbreaking in film with it's ridiculous high tech graphics.

      Minecraft does something no other game does. It lets you manipulate almost the entire environment. And that alone makes it fun for me.

      Would I like it more if it also had a big RPG component (WoW where you could literally build fortresses)? Or a strategy game component (C&C where you took the fight underground and tunneled your way to the enemy, or sapped their walls)? Hell yes.

      But, and I think this is the author's point, it's a big first step that nobody else was doing.

      There are a great many game concepts that are otherwise stale that could be revived if the world was as sandboxy as this one.

  13. Tetris by bWareiWare.co.uk · · Score: 1

    Whilst I love toys like Lego and Minecraft, they are are not the same thing as games.
    Would Tetris be better if you got to choose the blocks, would a film be better if you had to write it yourself (okay maybe most would)?

    1. Re:Tetris by demonbug · · Score: 1

      Whilst I love toys like Lego and Minecraft, they are are not the same thing as games.
      Would Tetris be better if you got to choose the blocks, would a film be better if you had to write it yourself (okay maybe most would)?

      No, but you can use them to make games. My brother and I used to play Destruction Derby with our Legos - each build a vehicle, then repeatedly run them into each other at high speeds and see who wins, with rules regarding what was required for a vehicle to be considered "intact" (as I recall, it had to contain a complete Lego dude and at least one set of wheels). Great fun, I highly recommend it.

      You can do the same sort of thing with Minecraft. It is a set of building blocks with some associated rules; all you have to do to turn it into a game is come up with a goal and a way of competing. Like who can make the coolest house, or who can kill the other person by secretly channeling creepers into their supposedly "safe" areas.

      So no, maybe (at this point) Minecraft isn't a game. But you can certainly play games with it.

    2. Re:Tetris by bWareiWare.co.uk · · Score: 1

      Human creativity is such that it can (and invariably dose) play games with everything. Some of the most popular games still only require a ball or a pencil.
      Minecraft is certainly used to play games, but it has limited potential and no real innovation. On the plus side it requires no external tools and provides a flexible 3d environment and networking however it don't really bring anything new. Most PC game engines have allowed extensive user content creation and modifications, and have invariably been better for it. Whilst Minecraft may seem to have lower barriers of entry, it is actually very hard to make anything even slightly complex. Its realistic entropy, and level playing field mean not only dose it take longer for me to build a wall then it takes for the player to knock it down, but if a single player knocks down the wrong thing then the whole game is off.
      20 years ago 3d Construction Kit already allowed much more complex triggers and scripting. A more recent example is Little Big Planet which despite a seriously unsuitable controller still allows much easier control.

    3. Re:Tetris by Smauler · · Score: 1

      No, but you can use them to make games. My brother and I used to play Destruction Derby with our Legos - each build a vehicle, then repeatedly run them into each other at high speeds and see who wins, with rules regarding what was required for a vehicle to be considered "intact" (as I recall, it had to contain a complete Lego dude and at least one set of wheels). Great fun, I highly recommend it.

      *THIS* is the most fun game I "invented" as a child. There was lots of strategy, lots of tactics, and you destroyed the opposition's finely crafted vehicle at the end (hopefully). It's good to hear someone else independently discovered the joys of ramming your Lego creations against someone else equally as keen to win.

      Unfortunately most of the designs ended up looking relatively similar.... but I think that was part of the charm - we learnt by trial and error which would survive. We used rules requiring at least 2 sets of wheels, and a complete dude, IIRC, and any part lost meant a loss of game... this helped rule out behemoths that could keep shedding parts until the opposition died.

      Seriously, when I saw your post I grinned like an idiot, and had to post too - it was massive fun. Weirdly, I completely associate the game with Malawi, during a holiday with friends of the family living there... even now every time I hear about Malawi on the news, I think of lego cars falling apart, and the occupants flying away.

  14. Re:Every block in the game is available to pick up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess that's made up for by infinitely replicating water, and easy to recreate tree trunks and foliage blocks. Creation and destruction of the environment is a key factor of these games too. Now all we need is a way to create diamond using coal and pistons...

    All we need now is $100 3D printers for home printing!

  15. Don't forget non-linear gameplay by sourcerror · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Every single game for the last 20 years has claimed "destructible environments" "

    Don't forget non-linear gameplay. Which in practice means there's some variety in the order you play linear subplots. Until we got a human level AI a computer cannot create a compelling story, so you have to put up with the pre-baked ones. (Or go full sandbox like multiplayer FPS/RTS games.)

    1. Re:Don't forget non-linear gameplay by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Nethack creates a new story every time you play. The goal is the same, but the trials and tribulations of the hero are different every time. You never play the same game of Nethack twice.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Don't forget non-linear gameplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone knows you never go full sandbox.

    3. Re:Don't forget non-linear gameplay by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Actually, Nethack has some very specific plot points. Not just the end game. There are some very specific things you need to complete to even make it to teh end game. It may be slightly variable in that a certain key level will be somewhere between depths 20 and 25, but it will be there. Dont' get me wrong, Nethack had me going back year after year, on and off, for a decade, but the games didn't change a whole lot. The real reason I kept coming back is because i could never win it and I couldn't save my progress, not because it was a different adventure every time.

    4. Re:Don't forget non-linear gameplay by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Yes, some of the challenges are the same from game to game. But Nethack has a way of presenting entirely new challenges as well. You always end up missing something you need, it's always something different, and how you cope with that is a different story each time.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    5. Re:Don't forget non-linear gameplay by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      90% of the time I'd just die from being careless in the Gnomish Mines. ;-)

  16. User generated content & 3d printing by improfane · · Score: 2

    I think Minecraft is the antecedent to more user generated content. FarmVille is psuedo user generated because it lets you choose . Minecraft takes it to extremes and lets you build the individual items by manipulating the elements of an item, rather than an a prefabricated item.

    I can see FPS games introducing more customizable 'bases'. We already have turrets in some games but maybe they can extend that and make the bases actually constructable.

    It's why games like SimCity, Civialization and Command & Conquer games are fun - you are making choices and generating content by yourself. Personally Minecraft goes too far in one direction - I am not particularly bothered about the components, I just want to see the big picture of interactions. (Economy, macromanagement, Ascendancy game, city building)

    I can see Minecraft being helpful in 3D printing. Imagine creating real life items in a minecraft like interface and then printing it? It would bring 3D to the messes.

    --
    Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    1. Re:User generated content & 3d printing by mr_gorkajuice · · Score: 1

      How is Minecraft *any* good as an interface for designing something you'd want to make a 3D print of? Everything that can be designed in Minecraft can be build with Legos.

      I don't see a lot of future games going down the Minecraft lane. The actual gameplay is rubbish (build a house before the first sunset, and you'll forever be safe from harm), and the game has nothing to offer except extreme customizability. It has an awesome niche appeal, because creative minds have a lot of opportunity to go nuts. But as for inspiring future games? Either you:
      Keep the concept and refine the execution - improved graphics, more types of things to create and more methods of customizing behaviour (Second Life anyone?) - or:
      Try to implement Minecraft'ish features into a game with a decent challenging gameplay, and you'll lose the creative minds who now have to worry about not dying AND the powergamers who realize that any game is easy when you can summon a brick wall.

      One of them is an attempt at beating Minecraft at their own game, which can either succeed or fail - the other is doomed to fail as you attempt to combine ultimate sandbox with actual gameplay, thereby forsaking the benefits of both.

    2. Re:User generated content & 3d printing by ShooterNeo · · Score: 1

      There's a mod that fixes that problem. It's called survival craft, and all it does is :

      1. Creepers (the green monsters) will explode if they cannot get to you. So they will go to the wall of your house and THEN they blow up, blowing a hole.

      2. Zombies and spiders can DIG through dirt, sand, cloth, wood, etc. (anything not extremely hard to dig through). They will break anything they can dig through in order to get to you and pwn you.

      3. Monsters pathfind much better and can usually find a way to get to you.

    3. Re:User generated content & 3d printing by improfane · · Score: 1

      Treat the scale of the blocks as being a few microdroplets of plastic and you work from there.

      The idea is that you would change the scale or size of the blocks so you could construct a 3D object. Like a plastic sandal.

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
  17. Choose by improfane · · Score: 1

    That should read;

    FarmVille is psuedo user generated because it lets you choose what to build and where to place it.

    I think human beings enjoy making decisions and perceiving the environment react to them.

    --
    Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    1. Re:Choose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you still mistyped 'psuedo'...

    2. Re:Choose by improfane · · Score: 3, Funny

      Apologies. I have learnt my lesson.

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    3. Re:Choose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apologies. I have learnt my lesson.

      Yes, you learnt it real good.

  18. Everyday, real life is boring by Aceticon · · Score: 1

    Everyday, real life is boring, there's a lot of nitty gritty, low value things we have to do in order to get to the trully pleasurable bits of it.

    Quick example:
    - Have you noticed that movies don't show in real time the travel time of the characters? Hands up anybody that wants to see in real time the 15h plane trip our action movie heroes take to go from their base to whatever hellhole they're supposed to be blasting stuff up in ...

    This is why most games do NOT include the "repetitivelly move stuff around" bits in them - because it's not fun. Would, say, any of the Mario Brother's games be any fun if you had to shovel dirt around for 1/2h in between getting each coin or fighting each baddie?

    1. Re:Everyday, real life is boring by genner · · Score: 1

      Everyday, real life is boring, there's a lot of nitty gritty, low value things we have to do in order to get to the trully pleasurable bits of it.

      Quick example: - Have you noticed that movies don't show in real time the travel time of the characters? Hands up anybody that wants to see in real time the 15h plane trip our action movie heroes take to go from their base to whatever hellhole they're supposed to be blasting stuff up in ...

      This is why most games do NOT include the "repetitivelly move stuff around" bits in them - because it's not fun. Would, say, any of the Mario Brother's games be any fun if you had to shovel dirt around for 1/2h in between getting each coin or fighting each baddie?

      On the next 24 Jack Bauer goes to France.
      This week......will he pay extra for the in flight movie?

    2. Re:Everyday, real life is boring by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      didn't you see LotR: Two Towers? that was like 3 1/2 hours of running.

      --
      minecraft server mc.bongaming.com

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    3. Re:Everyday, real life is boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch the original version of Solaris (the Russian one). I love the driving scene.

  19. Re:Every block in the game is available to pick up by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    p>All we need now is $100 3D printers for home printing!

    Why? How much do you really want to print? At least, right now, how much stuff do you really want to print? is a pretty good workaround to actual ownership of a 3D printer. I suspect it's a lot like photo printing: it will turn out to be a fair bit cheaper not to have the printer at home and just shop out the print jobs to a specialist. At least, for the time being, anyway.

    For instance, if the materials are the larger part of the expense, then the equipment that can produce the thinnest walls will be able to print your 3D art for the least money. But that equipment may cost far in excess of what a $100 printer is capable of, for a long time.

    Regardless, you can be printing stuff right now with one of the many only 3D print jobbers. Shapeways being one which seems to specialize in one-off's which is what hobbyists would be most interested in.

    Stuff that needs to be more durable probably won't be printed on the kinds of materials you can feed into a 3D printer anyway. The machines that handle more durable materials are also going to be more expensive than a RepRap-level 3D printer for a while as well.

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  20. Guild Wars 2 and Diablo 3 by oakwine · · Score: 1

    Not as if this hasn't been known. Diablo 3 will have destructible elements. In GW 2 lots of random stuff to pick up, some of it weaponry that changes your skill bar. Plus maps that change from one play session to the next as far as monsters and events go. Dungeons rearrange themselves; but Diablo had that.

  21. Sure. People are plenty stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It can change the game industry. The real hard question is will it be for the better? I don't think so.

    Of course i am bias by the types of people who seem to be hooked on minecraft and can't shut the hell up about it. It seems to bring out the worst of both gamer and attention whore types. Both groups i didn't want to hear from in the first place.

  22. I don't think so... by xded · · Score: 1

    Red Faction had a destructible environment back in 2001 with Volition's Geo-Mod engine, which eventually improved in 2009 with the totally realtime Geo-Mod 2.0 in Red Faction: Guerrilla.

  23. I dont need to affect the world to have fun. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Modern Warfere series has the least interactive enviroment in a game, you cant even open doors! You can smash glasses, that's all. But it is a superb game because producers focused on story-telling. It is a movie I can play! Mirror's Edge isnt any different in terms of manipulative environment.

  24. No, it will not. by Hecatonchires · · Score: 1

    The filter in your brain that parses reality is not installed correctly.

    --

    Yay me!

  25. Batshit Boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Minecraft is quite simply batshit boring.

    1. Re:Batshit Boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think Minecraft is boring, you must be one of the least interesting people in the world.

  26. Inframiner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can stealing code from someone else's game and self bumping threads on 4chan spring of 2010 change the gaming industry ?

  27. Re:Sure. People are plenty stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Of course i am bias...

    Why does it seem that nobody who's grown up in the internet age seems to be able to use the word "bias" correctly? Bias is a verb. Biased is an adjective. You should be saying "I am biased..."

  28. Nope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And another nope for good measure.

    There are plenty of user-generated games.
    Minecraft just got lucky with interviews at the right times with the right people that resulted in a surge of news about it and sales out the eyeballs. (so much so that Paypal were even shocked and suspended that account to check it out)

    Minecraft wasn't the first, and it certainly won't be the last, when it comes to blockland / voxel games.
    Minecraft isn't even that good a blockland game at that.
    Vanilla Minecraft gets INSANELY boring after you get a bunch of materials you need. Seriously, it is a more complex Farmville, that is it.
    It is a chore-game.
    Most people who play it (actually play it), play it with mods, or play it on themed MP servers (anarchy, no-build, creative, adventure, puzzle, whatever).
    The rest are held back by the man himself, Notch, because he is so inept and incapable of making Minecraft work since his views on what the game should be are crap. (MINECRAFT ISN'T REAL LIFE, QUIT IT ALREADY NOTCH)
    As he said in his very own words, without the community, Minecraft IS NOTHING. It is another simple blockland game.
    Honestly surprised the community never stole the game off him and made PirateCraft. He has pissed well over half the fanbase off at several stages in updates.

    I'd sooner give Dwarf Fortress my love. But the developer of that is seemingly even worse when it comes to time-keeping and interface design.
    Seriously, menu- and command- driven interface 101, that game breaks every single guideline besides easily-readable commands. (contrasting)
    The community have wanted a rewrite of the menu system since FOREVER, but he just won't do it.
    The menu system is the only thing holding that game back from EVERYONE, EVER, from playing it. You'd think he would take the hint when there are about 50 different programs for managing the game.

  29. Game / Scene designer by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    The biggest advantage of the mind craft "environment" is for the game designer. You can "power up" a "game designer" character to walk around inside of the scenery and craft it by interaction with it. In other words you don't need external tools to design levels etc. I assume most MOORGs also can do that from the inside, but likely they nevertheless use custom crafted tools for that.
    I assume interaction with the lego blocks is done with certain tools the character is wielding ... so in a mindcraft environment you only need some "bulldozers" and other tools that are only available to the game designers.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  30. No! by synapse7 · · Score: 1

    Everybody has switched to Realm of the Mad God.

  31. Give me another Modern Warfare or Wow Clone. by Tei · · Score: 1

    AAA publishers are focused on the ONE most popular type of videogame. This is like all movies released during two years being clones of Deep Impact.

    On the other hand, gaming is big, billion of dollars big, millions of players big. Since publishers abandon a lot of ground of gaming, this space is filled by smaller studios, indies, and other people. Big AAA don't want or can't risk his money in creativity, and want to "adquire customers" buying and selling "IP". Smaller publishers, indies and the like, don't fear innovation, and create lots of creative and interesting games.

    It has not ben always like that. Publishers use to provide a more diverse range of games, and not be all that focused on "Manshooter IV". The game with a version 4 or 5 use to be rare. Now is the norm, and the rare... almost not existing, is a new "IP". Wen a big publisher create a new "IP" is newswhorty!.

    This is bad news if you are a console gamer, or you are the type of casual gamer that only want these publishers AAA titles,... or maybe not. People seems to enjoy consuming the lowest common denominator product.

    But if you are a PC user, and want creative games, are exciting times. Yesterday week Minecraft was Terraria, this week Minecraft is Dungeons of Dredmor. Is very fun to be a PC gamer atm.

    If you ask me, AAA publishers are abandoning money on the table by not having smallers teams making games for niche markets. But I suppose these type of companies want to make fat games, because fat produce the type of stuff executives need. So these companies are driven by what is best for his executives, and this is "big Hits". Even if that means abandoning money on the table. Or maybe I am too cinic, I don't know.

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

  32. Re:No. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

    It won't. Next question?

    You've said a mouthful.

    Why can't anybody just make a moderately successful product any more without having to "change the industry" with their "new paradigm"?

    First it was big important really life-changing things like the Sears Catalog or erasers on the end of pencils. Maybe cellular phones. Now every single consumer success is a "game changer".

    I just heard a guy on the radio interviewing the guy who came out with Tito's Corn Vodka. Now, people have been making corn licker since before Columbus, but sure enough, the otherwise pretty smart investment guy whose local radio show it was said "This is a game changer". Fucking CORN VODKA is a "game changer"? The only game corn vodka is going to change is the slow-pitch softball game that turns into a blind melee after the participants partake in several bottles of said corn vodka. The liquor store where I am proud to have a store account has a liquor display containing what appears to be several hundred vodkas, including those flavored with marshmallow and (I'm serious) whipped cream. Besides 17-22 year old females with lower-back tattoos, I really don't know who drinks marshmallow-flavored vodka, but apparently, enough of them have boyfriends trying to relieve them of their britches that these vodkas are very good sellers. So I am told. So when the types of vodka include such exotic offerings, how is CORN VODKA going to be a "game changer" unless you're a corn farmer and the US suddenly drops the ethanol subsidies and a potato blight hits the Midwest.

    OK, I've got to stop right there, because my wife has forbid me from having any more Slashdot rants because she says I make a funny noise when I'm writing them and it's only 7:21am here and if I wake the dog I'll have to walk her. The dog, I mean.

    (Oh, by the way, the whipped cream vodka really isn't that bad).

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  33. Maybe not... by jones_supa · · Score: 1

    I think Minecraft is just a nice small freeware game along Soldat and others. Very good games, but nothing that revolutionary.

  34. Re:No. by hal2814 · · Score: 1

    Corn vodka? Isn't that just moonshine?

  35. Great. by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 1

    Now we're going to start seeing tons of minecraft clones, since that works OH SO WELL for FPS games.
    Anyone for Call of Minecraft 7?

    --
    What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
    1. Re:Great. by MistrBlank · · Score: 1

      Too late, have you seen Terraria (which I'll argue is better and more fun than minecraft), but the reality is that minecraft itself is already a clone.

    2. Re:Great. by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 1

      I actually prefer Terraria to Minecraft myself, I don't see it so much as a clone but as a different branch.
      I'm more or less talking about big companies making exact clones because Minecraft sold well.

      --
      What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
    3. Re:Great. by demonbug · · Score: 1

      Now we're going to start seeing tons of minecraft clones, since that works OH SO WELL for FPS games.
      Anyone for Call of Minecraft 7?

      It's okay, but I only play it for the Zombies.

  36. Re:Every block in the game is available to pick up by earls · · Score: 1

    Thanks for totally nerding out on a passing comment. :)

  37. No ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    next question...

  38. Re:Every block in the game is available to pick up by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    Why? How much do you really want to print?

    I want to print a Japanese pop star so I reckon about fifty kilos will do the trick.

  39. No... by dskzero · · Score: 1

    People vastly overstimate the impact of Minecraft. The fact that it was successful does not mean that it was good. People bought it because they had fun with it and it was an indie game. That's about it. It's a good game, but as a videogame, it's flawed. You need to do everything, and depends entirely on you to continue, you need challenge yourself, and there is bassically no point going on.

    --
    Oblivion Awaits
    1. Re:No... by Scalarr · · Score: 1

      Please bare in mind that is not even finished yet. I would expect the developers to explore new possibilities regarding gameplay.

      --
      http://twitter.com/#!/Scalarr
    2. Re:No... by dskzero · · Score: 1

      I think that will not happen. It's way more likely for fans to continue developing the engine.

      --
      Oblivion Awaits
  40. Terraria is better by MistrBlank · · Score: 1

    From a retro standpoint, I prefer the pixels in a 2D world. It's got more enemies, more building options, more crafting, hardcore mode, multiplayer (with player run servers), cheaper price. My wife didn't like Minecraft, she likes Terraria. We play together and adventure in the game, not just build.

    Same "full" control over the world.

  41. Re:Every block in the game is available to pick up by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

    You can't pick up bedrock without hacking, either.

    --
    Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
  42. Re:No. by Jaqenn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The correct answer is Yes, but not for the reason stated in the article.

    Minecraft is a huge moment in the gaming industry because it demonstrated that Gamers are interested in being shown a tech demo that's fun, and paying for the tech demo now in return for a full game later.

    This is huge, because if a game developer takes money from a publisher there's a conflict between 'Make a profit on that loan' and 'Make the best game possible'. If a game developer takes money from a gamer, their interests are aligned to 'Make the best game possible.'

    --
    You are awash in a sea of fiercely stated opinions. Obvious exits are: 'File->Quit', 'Reply', and 'Page Down'.
  43. Re:No. by obergfellja · · Score: 1

    it gives you the option to host your own lan parties and post it on your own private server. Granted, that isn't changing the market, but I have found it useful for me to host on my server for my friends (who want to play)

  44. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Minecraft is just a poor substitute for Lego, that's why it's so successful.

  45. Re:No. by adeft · · Score: 1

    Vodka is interesting. One of the few alcohols that can be made with nearly anything and still retain it's status as "vodka". Just off the top of my head, I've seen vodkas made with potatoes, grains, and even hemp.

  46. paradigm shift? by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

    I enjoy Minecraft. My wife and I play together. It's fun...

    But it isn't that amazing.

    Dwarf Fortress lets you dig/build pretty much anything you can imagine. Red Faction let me blow holes in things years ago. Second Life has allowed people to build whatever they want for years.

    --
    "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
  47. Next Paradigm Shift by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    Minecraft Porn

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  48. MINECRAFT'S DEVELOPMENT CYCLE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) Take 2 month vacation
    2) Come back, spend a week implementing a feature
    3) Roll out that one feature as a new version
    4) Notch: "whew... *huff* *huff* I be hungry for some fried chikin and watermelon. I think I go be gone take a vacation, I so tired and exhausted!"
    5) Take 3 month vacation
    6) Come back, spend a week implementing a feature
    7) Roll out that one feature as a new version
    8) Notch: "Oh lawdy lawdy *huff* *huff* I be sweatin' like I be runnin' from a mob of rednecks after rapin' a white woman. I so tired and exhauted, I think I go be gone take a vacation nah!"
    9) Take 4 month vacation
    10) Come back, spend a week implementing a feature
    11) Roll out that one feature as a new version (this time incrementing the major version number!)
    12) Notch: "I can't stuff any mo' penises in my mouf if I try. I sho' glad I hired a bunch of handsome young men in mah company. Gimme those dicks, I'm takin' 'em with me on this new vacation I'm goin' on!"

    And the cycle continues.

  49. the Lego of video games by Kreylix · · Score: 1

    I think it's a whole new category of video games - the Lego of video games. (Consequently, I've seen my son become a Minecraft fiend and he no longer touches Lego.) I think this is game changing because Minecraft has only touched the surface of what can be done; so it's like the first edition of Dungeons & Dragons...wait until we have the Minecraft versions of Might & Magic, HOMM, WoW, etc., etc. Just like Magic: The Gathering was a game changer.

  50. Re:No. by arthurpaliden · · Score: 2

    And Cornish Game Hens are just small chickens. Yet they cost more ?????

  51. The Secret by arthurpaliden · · Score: 1

    It is a simple game with a so so physics engine, good multi player capabilities and most importantly you do not have to be completely sober to play it especially in multi player mode.

  52. Re:No. by the_humeister · · Score: 1

    Minecraft is a huge moment in the gaming industry because it demonstrated that Gamers are interested in being shown a tech demo that's fun, and paying for the tech demo now in return for a full game later.

    Actually, Quake III showed us that.

  53. A Tetris clone where you choose the piece set by tepples · · Score: 1

    Would Tetris be better if you got to choose the blocks

    Lockjaw Tetromino Game lets players add the "small pieces" (domino I2, straight tromino I3, and bent tromino L3) to the tetrominoes, or remove the I tetromino from the mix for certain kinds of training, or even remove everything but the squiggly S and Z pieces.

  54. Re:No. by gearsmithy · · Score: 1

    Why can't anybody just make a moderately successful product any more without having to "change the industry" with their "new paradigm"?

    Because unless it's an immanent-threattoyourlife-OMFG-terroristattack or an industry-changing ultra-mega-blockbuster-paradigmshifting-neweconomycreating-widget, it's not sensational enough to make it into the newstainmentblogosphere.

  55. Purpose by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    In Saints Row 2 I could rip a parking meter out of the ground and beat people to death with it. Does that count?

    How about Mass Effect - Minecraft?

    Shepard: Let's take down those geth!
    Garrus: Hold on. I need to rip blocks out of the ground and build us some cover.
    Grunt: Krogan destroy walls, not build them! The tank told me so.
    Shepard: (facepalm)

  56. Re:Every block in the game is available to pick up by Quirkz · · Score: 1

    I would gladly pay $100 if I could get a setup which let me eat a different famous historical landmark printed in chocolate for dessert every night. Probably $200, even, if it came with the blueprints, because I'm not going to redesign all those things myself.

  57. Hop Hop Boom! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I were going to design a FPS, there would be only one rule; 3 simultaneous hops would cause your head to explode. There is nothing more frustrating than an annoying kid hopping all over the frigging map shooting people at point blank with a shotgun after dodging a hail of machine gun fire. Hop, hop .. boom!

  58. Minecraft but not engine by Tyr07 · · Score: 1

    People nailed it in the comments, minecraft works due to it's cubic design which reduce the performance requirements to achieve a smooth running world. What needs to be done now is worlds in a game to be cubed into sections. You can let the graphic cards and processors handle texture generation (I've seen some neat dynamic demos) and even have scripted texture rules. The terrain itself can be layered the same way it is now, but allow people to make changes in a cuboid section, effectively reducing the complexity of the destructable terrain. It will reduce the level of detail a player can apply to a landscape and to sculpture a bit, as even with the nice graphics, texture overlay, structures would still be built in roughly cubed dimensions (E.G if you built something out of dirt, you could still guess it's 4 cubes wide, even though textures make it look like a slightly dynamic shape and size). Add a few rules that adjust dynamic shape parameters based on surrounding blocks and wala, a dynamic terrain environment that can have detail levels like the crytek engine and the performance of minecraft. So even though other games have done similar things as minecraft, nothing is identical. It's 3d, and an entire world.

  59. Boulderdash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Boulderdash and its clones, like Emerald Mines and Supaplex, made it part of the game to destruct sections of some levels ("some" meaning "a large proportion" not a tiny fraction), nothing new to see here.

  60. It sure can! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It sure can! Minecraft taught me to be more carefull when spending money on videogames.

  61. Re:No. by CraftyJack · · Score: 1

    I've seen spiked whipped cream, but now you're saying there's a whipped cream flavored vodka? Last time you were that funny you blamed it on a vodka pineapple. That shouldn't be the case at 7:21 am.

  62. Re:No. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    That shouldn't be the case at 7:21 am.

    Actually, friend, I don't drink. Haven't been drunk since college. But if I did drink, 7:21am would seem like an ideal time.

    It's all poetic license. I paint a picture, spin a yarn. What I write is sometimes, rarely actually, fictional, but always true.

    But yes, there is whipped cream flavored vodka, made by Pinnacle. Also, you will get individual mixologists who do their own vodka flavoring. It's a fad.

    I know these things because last summer, one of my students worked as a mixologist at a hip downtown bar. She's got stories...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  63. Not new by drb226 · · Score: 1

    Minecraft was hardly the first to introduce a "manipulable" environment. We've been cutting grass in Zelda games and destroying blocks in Mario games for a long time now.

  64. the cheapest and best dvd boxset here by leo9188 · · Score: 0

    We provide the cheapest and best dvd boxset here: http://www.dvdshopsonline.com/

  65. Old News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has been done before with social MUDs and MUSHes from back in the day. Granted it was all text, a player was able to create his/her own environments.

  66. Minecraft vs The Gaming World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well it already has in a way, it's changed how people are prepared to pay for a game still technically in beta, so hopefully it'll help more inde developers with something good to give get their game out there before the choke financially. It's also a very low pricepoint considering how much you can mod and adapt the game to make it nearly anything else ( I get my mods here: Minecraft Hacks)