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Iran Forced To Replace Centrifuges To Stop Stuxnet
Trailrunner7 writes "Reports that Iran had recovered from the infection of the Stuxnet worm may have been overblown, as a new report suggests the country is being forced to replace thousands of expensive centrifuges damaged by the worm. The report from the website DEBKAfile cites 'intelligence sources' in claiming that Stuxnet was not purged from Iran's nuclear sites and that the country was never able to return its uranium enrichment efforts to 'normal operation.' Instead, the country has said in recent days that it is installing newer and faster centrifuges at its nuclear plants and intends to speed up the uranium enrichment process, according to the country's foreign ministry."
Stuxnet has caused even more damage than its creators may have thought of...
How can replacing thousands of expensive centrifuges be cheaper than replacing the infected computers??!! Dude, WTF?!
Iran believes they need nuclear weapons to be taken seriously. Why? Because they have seen that when a country has nuclear capability no one, especially the US, fucks with them.
The World is going to have to pay for generations the complete and utter fucked up foreign US policy - even when we're a broke run down ex-Super Power.
a heartwarming story about the good that viruses do, instead of the constant bad press...
Nullius in verba
DEBKAfile is not a credible source of news. I remember in Gulf War 2 when they were reporting on the imminent launch of WMD gas my Saddam on US forces. This should not be on slashdot.
I'd like to know how Siemens will prevent future infections from using the same attack vector. (So would the Mossad, no doubt :)
Do you really believe Iran is the only country that have had attacks carried out successfully against military / nuclear programs? Imagine how many times your own country has been hit. Iran were only less skilled at censorship and keeping the lid on. Your country was better at it.
Take this with a grain of salt. DEBKAfile is not the most reliable of sources. They tend to post without vetting.
Vague unsourced rumours from Debkafile should not be showing up on slashdot. Debka is meant to be read for fun, not for actual news.
So we set the Iranian nuclear program back a few years and really pissed them off! The US would consider an attack of this type an act of war....
I'm sure the Iranians will even less likely to 'negotiate' now.
Sounds fun as hell, and pretty probable too, TBH. Number one is hat Stuxnet got in there -before-; nothing keeps it from being re-inserted, possibly with modifications to avoid re-detection. Secondly is - think back to your corporate IT department and how often they make all their fixes right. They screw up sometimes, don't they?
Trust me, the Iranian government's a lot worse. They've got less expertise, less experience, less skills, and a language barrier to deal with most the time. I'd consider it a safe bet that they could've screwed up the cleanup, especially since they also tend to go cheap compared to other militaries (Look at rifles for a basic example here).
Either way, whoever's doing Stuxnet, good job here. I've got more faith in this then I do our diplomat's efforts for the reasons mentioned before - we bend over backwards for anyone who DOES have nukes and invade people who give 'em up. Doesn't take much IQ to see that throwing out your weapons program is a boneheaded idea if you're not going to take that 500 million bribe straightaway and retire before you get bit in the ass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debka.com
I know that WHO seems like a evil organization, especially with all this "big med are evil and they control everything" attitude here on /. but seriously, why would WHO get into a risky business like that? There's enough money in drugs as it is.
Stuxnet 2 is coming!
If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
Come on slashdot, debka is as realible as jeff rense.
Dont use industrial machines that run Windows....
Just saying.....
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
"Stuxnet was not purged from Iran's nuclear sites... in recent days that it is installing newer and faster centrifuges at its nuclear plants and intends to speed up the uranium enrichment process, according to the country's foreign ministry."
So...
now they are installing newer and faster centrifuges to get the job done faster and better... talk about backfire
Yay!?
It's an editorial, for crying out loud. Of course it's biased.
The real news is that Iran is scrapping somewhere between 5,000 and 6,000 centrifuges and replacing them with "faster" and "improved" ones. They supposedly announced this in a press conference, so I presume this can be independently verified apart from DEBKA's claim?
The rest of the article is conjecture, so feel free to come up with a better theory of why Iran is rebuilding their enrichment program from scratch.
Nelson: HA HA!
They have these awesome enrichment centers :)
(And who needs stuxnet when you've got GlaDOS?)
Do not hook up centrifuges that are suspected of ever having been infected to the new centrifuges, the networks the new centrifugres are hooked up to, or any equipment that in any way touches the new centrifuges.
N. Korea basically has a hostage situtation, it has a large enough conventional military force to do real, significant, and lasting damage to S. Korea quickly enough that the US could only retaliate in kind rather than to halt the assault.
Stuxnet is a really complex and well thought out windows worm but it's not magic and it can be beaten. Abusing holes in windows isn't some new thing that stuxnet invented.
Dealing with windows worms isn't nearly as complex as creating them.
Easy clean up process:
1) Disconnect affected windows machines from your network.
2) Overwrite the disks on these machines with zeros at least once.
3) Physically break the USB, firewire, sound, floppy connectors, extra disk connectors, serial ports, parallel ports on the motherboard of these computers. Break them in such a way they can't be fixed without significant effort.
4) Reinstall windows from clean CDs. Do not connect the machine to any network.
5) Reinstall SCADA software from clean CDs. Do not connect the machine to any network.
6) Setup one OpenBSD filtering bridge per SCADA control system to filter traffic to and from your new control machine and only allow traffic you have to. That means SCADA control traffic only. No windows update, no anti-virus updates, no domain authentications, no STP, and if possible not even ARP. Test with tcpdump and if 1 single network packet you don't fully understand gets though start again from step 1.
Done.
BTW I'm not a US citizen, a US visa holder, or in US controlled territory. I suspect that any US citizen or anyone in US controlled territory who assists Iran in any way is committing a criminal act. US export laws.. land of the free.. my arse.
Pakistan's nuclear arsenal most likely consists of warheads with yields comparable to Fat Man and Little Boy. It's delivery systems are most likely limited to those that can deliver these warheads to their immediate neighbors. The intention of the arsenal isn't to deter a super-power that sits on the other side of the world but to deter India.
The US could bomb Pakistan at will and not face any consequences it does not already face. What's Pakistan going to do, promulgate information on how to build nuclear warheads to foes of the US? Or maybe they might fund beligerents who are actively in state of war against the US?
I don't understand. Iran said this was a weak, impotent attack by the Jews, that failed, it was contained. Remember, Stuxnet DID NOT SUCCEED, according to their mullah.
... DEBKAfile is a site mostly frequented by ex-pat Israelis (of which I am one) that pushes mostly-not-credible "intelligence" about existential threats to the state of Israel.
Which is not to suggest that there are no such threats -- only that this particular bunch of weirdos aren't the most credible source of information about same.
So even factual (as opposed to editorial) content on the site is somewhat suspect..
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The middle east has no more 'internal politics' than does the US. We're all interdependent. The Monroe doctrine is long dead. US, Europe, China, India have vital interests in the region and it is idiocy squared to even suggest that withdrawing from the contest will get you anything except ultimately ruined and destroyed by the others. There is no place to hide, you must either engage and win or face these facts. I submit it would be cheaper in the long run to nuke the mullahs, who BTW should mind their own fucking business, instead of attempting to force their stone age prejudice on the comity of civilised nations. Fuck these people.
to notice a few key problems with the stuxnet fiasco so far:
1. no one has proven iran is intent on seeking nuclear weapons with this technology; their construction of nuclear power plants seems to run contrary to this solely western hypothesis
2. no one has yet explained why iran cannot have the same nuclear weapons as the united states and its allies. Highlighting the fact that they are state sponsors of terror is irrelevant as we've done the same thing numerous times in history. the centrifuges didnt just contract a random virus that happened to not have affected any american hardware, much the same as siberias natural gas pipeline didnt just explode on its own in 1982. iraqi scientists arent just getting killed accidentally.
Good people go to bed earlier.
No, Iran's leadership is interested in nuclear weapons primarily because they believe that if they get a working nuclear weapon, that it will make them leaders in the Arab world.
They would likely attack Israel, because, well, because people like those in charge in Iran are f*cking crazy.
That said, I love the Persian people and wish them the best.
Stuxnet is a Windows worm, but it has a payload that targets embedded controllers. It's the embedded controllers, and the centrifuges that were damaged by them, that Iran is having to replace.
Agreed. Preferably by air delivery.
First, the stalemate vis a vis N. Korea and the US would exist even if N. Korea didn't have nukes. N. Korea could shell Seoul into oblivion before the US troops in the DMZ could move to dend Seoul. The stalemate in N. Korea exists because N. Korea has sunk practically its entire GDP into its military and has amassed it on the border, effectively holding S. Korea hostage.
Second, as far as Pakistan goes, both India and Pakistan are only nominally US allies. Either bombing the other in retaliation for US actions would be moronic. And, if Pak tried it, India is perfectly capable of retaliating in kind. India had nukes prior to Pakistan. In fact, Pakistan's nuke program is almost entirely in response to India's program. The US has little to do with it.
Now, it is possible that a destabilized Pakistan might pre-emptively strike against India. But that threat exists on a completely different plane than Pakistani responses to the US.
But infection via sneakernet is a completely other vector than coming into contact with previously infected machines. I was responding to someone who was positing such a scenario.
Of course, the same answer is appropriate to the sneakernet vector. Stuxnet successfully penetrated the existing network because someone was lazy. One might conjecture that Iran would develop a protocol to avoid such situations in the future.
who is selling them new better centrifuges? My guess is China. China, North Korea, and Pakistan have been spreading this everywhere. The west needs to reconsider our tactics. China is spreading this tech to their friends and what is our enemies in hope that they will launch a first strike, or provoke one from us.
As you can see from the cut-n-paste, the Wikipedia article explicitly gives sources. There is almost no original text from the Wikipedia writer. I kind of see where you're coming from, but you fail at it.
Since Iran wants a nuke... The US should air deliver several. One for each major city and one for each nuclear research location.
Dial 1-800-Big-Bomb when it absolutely has to be there on time.
Deliveries anywhere in the world.
Urban renewal the easy way.
Can someone knowledgeable in setting up uranium enrichment plant systems explain us why do the machines have to be connected to not just a network, but the public Internet of all networks?
Nuclear gas centrifuges are physical. Computer programs are virtual. Switches are virtual-to-physical interfaces. Computers control switches through amplifying the signal of computer-generated switching commands to channel a heavier current, as transistors do, to accomplish physical adjustings of electrical inputs to devices. This is done in machine controllers.
Nuclear gas centrifuges are physical devices, cylinders that spin at computer-controlled specified speeds, turned by electric motors and suspended by magnetic bearings. The bearings also are controlled, controllers adjusting the strength of the magnetic field by controlling each's electro-magnetic field, centering the weight and speed of the bearing-born load in and between the bearings.
A stuxnet program attacks the computer control. The program malfunction induces machine controller malfunction which induces physically damaging malfunction in the physical centrifuges targeted. Being physical, those spun outside permissible tolerance limits, or with bearing electro-magnetism reduced below load-bearing capability, or fluctuated to induce oscillations, suffer real physical damage.
While the stuxnet program can be neutralized and removed from computer program, and when removed will leave the computers and controllers undamaged, the physical damage induced in the physical centrifuges remains andmust be physically rectified.
With equipment like nuclear gas centrifuges it does not take much to render the equipment unsafe to continue to operate. Thus, Iran replacing centrifuges does not mean stuxnet is still present in its computers. It means the physical damage resulting from the malfunctions stuxnet induced was severe enough to warrant centrifuge replacements.
Afghanistan would get turned into a sea of glass. The US wouldn't even have to use nukes to do it either.
So long as Afghanistan has a rational self interest, they will not use their nukes on the US, or anyone else for that matter. If they used them on India, which is far more likely than using them on the US, India would retaliate in kind and China would not be very happy about an actual nuclear agressor in its back yard. For most countries, pre-emptively using nukes is a no-win proposition.
Which leaves non-state actors. For a group like al-Qaeda, using a nuke would make sense. Which is, putatively, why Pakistan turns a blind eye to US excursions into its territory. Sure, they howl and squeal about territorial sovereignty, but as long as they keep getting US aid for no longer progating nuclear technology across the globe, all they will do is howl and squeal.
I agree -- the point is that that Stuxnet did its job very* well. Oh oh... that means.... :(
Pandora's box being opened? Plenty of work for virus writers/anti-virus gurus?
The last 60 years have been good for Civilization -- I think the USA did pretty well. Lets hope the next 60 go as well.
is it not possible to recycle them, take out the chips that are useless and replace them with newer ones, but leave the shells intact???
They will not give voice of their plan to cleanse entire regions of dissenters on national television.