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Ask Slashdot: Dealing With the Business Software Alliance?
Kagetsuki writes "We've just gotten a letter from an attorney representing the Business Software Alliance stating someone (we're certain it's a disgruntled former employee) submitted information we are using illegally copied software. The thing is... we're not using illegally copied software. We have licenses for all the commercial software we are using. Still, according to articles on the BSA, that's irrelevant and they'll end up suing us anyway. So we now need a lawyer to deal with their claims and we don't have the money — this will surely be the end of the company into which I've sunk all my savings and three years of my life. Has anybody dealt with the Business Software Alliance before? What action should I take? Is there any sort of financial recourse, or at least a way cover our legal fees?"
Everything I've heard about the BSA is that they employ our now corporate police departments to force audits/etc.
If they don't find shit, they don't have shit.
With that in mind, do your own audit first .
You have licenses for everything? Really? Even the software that wanker down in the mail room installed on his PC? Not yours? Not for work? Wasn't you, was just the employee?
Doesn't matter.
if u do go the "audit" route.....use an independent auditor so it's not "rubber-stamped"
Don't agree to any BSA demands or requests. Find a lawyer experienced with dealing with the BSA.
If you agree to an audit, it's highly probable they will find something illegal, regardless of whether you did anything illegal or not. You need a proof of purchase for every copy of an installed software product. If you use a Windows environment, you need proof that you had sufficient CALs for everything, on effective audit date.
If anything's not in order, or you can't find one proof of purchase for 1 license of XXX, the BSA will insist the software is pirated (even if you bought it good and legal), tack on huge fines, etc
"We've just gotten a letter from an attorney representing the Business Software Alliance stating someone (we're certain it's a disgruntled former employee)"
Be prepared to sue that former employee, for all damages and costs your business incurred as a result of their allegation, If they made a frivolous/false claim that hurt your business, and you can show who it is, take them to court. Maybe they (and others) will think twice, before making false reports to the BSA racket people.
The BSA needs their evidence to sue you, make sure you force the BSA to divulge the identity of the person reporting. Again, you will need legal counsel to help you with this
My guess is that if you let them in the door you will be screwed.
Keep in mind that while they like to act as if they are a government / law enforcement agency they are merely a private party that is hoping that people will be impressed enough with their act to hand over enough information to hand themselves.
This is both a question and a point but don't US courts require at least basic evidence before a suit can be brought?
The BSA will be sure to send a lawyer.
You'll need one who has experience in this.
And remember, it isn't just about the audit. You also have to prove (this is civil, not criminal) that all the software you're running is legit. Which means receipts from verifiable vendors.
Just because you have a license key does not mean that you have a "legit" copy (according to the BSA).
We sent an affidavit stating that we had appropriately licensed software, detailed the number of employees, provided ****'d out license numbers, etc.
They then said they wanted to put a laptop on our network to verify all our license numbers. We told them to f@ck off, that we'd provided them more than enough information, and that we'd be happy to speak to the police if they thought a crime had been committed.
We never heard back from them.
Google is your friend, turning up this 2008 advice column.
Abstracted:
- 1. Retain a lawyer, don't go it alone.
- 2. Cooperate—carefully, the BSA's attorneys stay on retainer by maintaining a high recovery rate.
- 3. Don't let the BSA's rhetoric intimidate you.
- 4. Don't rush out and buy any software.
- 5. Preserve evidence with confidentiality.
- 6. Find your allies.
- 7. Create a compliance plan.
- 8. Negotiate non-monetary aspects.
Luke, help me take this mask off
Maybe instead of preemptively shutting down the business he should actually contact an asset protection expert, for advice.
There are ways to structure a business to protect it against dubious legal threats, like the BSA.
A common example would be.... one corporation owning the building.... another corporation owning the computers... etc
You can't just open a new business, move the assets, close your existing one, and evade legal problems. There are many considerations, tax issues, and otherwise.
If you intentionally undercapitalize your existing business, you might be at risk of having a court find you had committed a fraudulent transfer, or they might pierce the corporate veil. Therefore, you should see an attorney about all that as well
While you would think that being reasonable and cordial is the right thing to do, you've given the BSA a letter they can use against you. If they find even one copy of software which you can't find the receipt, they'll use the letter. Get a lawyer first which will advise you of what to do. Remember, the BSA has started out with a threat not a cordial letter themselves. From that stance I would surmise that even if they are wrong, they don't care.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
We had a lawyer and had him draft a letter requesting information on what they claimed was illegal. Then we offered to show them the results of an internal audit. We also offered to submit to a third party audit that BSA would have to pay for. After lots of meetings and lots of legal wrangling the BSA went away empty handed. One small difference was we were running non-licensed software and were in violation. It was a web design house with 8 graphic designers and not one legal copy of Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. Since the BSA provided us with the list they claimed was illegal, we scrubbed it from the offending boxes so as to appear legal. Then over the span of the next 2-years we bought all of the licenses needed to cover our butts. This cost over $120,000 in software licenses. Far cheaper than what the BSA wanted. But the lawyer was key. Check with the Bar in your area for a probono lawyer. Perhaps you can find someone willing to work on a sliding scale. Also check with the Small Business Administration for ideas for legal help. Good luck.
Carpe Scrotum - The only way to deal with your competition.
NO! NEVER SAY ANYTHING YOU HAVEN'T RUN THROUGH YOUR OWN ATTORNEY TO AN ATTORNEY ON THE OTHER SIDE. There are so many problems with it. Anything you say can be twisted by them. At a minimum, the "Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention so we can put it to rest," could be construed as an admission that you thought you may have had piracy. Thereby negating any counterclaim and potentially surviving different motions to get rid of it earlier.
Short answer: don't say anything until you get an attorney.
I worked for an engineering company who said they couldnt justify the 25 licenses of autocad civil3d they were pirating (but also said they needed them to maintain the workflow they had) and said that they didnt care about my liability in the matter being the only IT person in the company. I turned them in. The BSA offers a reward, and at first they tell you that if they have to use your testimony they cant give you anything (it would be like paying for testimony) but they tell you that its rare that you ever have to actually use your testimony as the companies generally settle. If it gives you any comfort, the person that turned you in will not get any reward. the BSA find ways to make it so they dont have to pay out the reward for ratting you out. Now as far as your legally obtained software. Scan your PCs for software installed and make sure you have Purchase Records of all software installed that requires a license. this is what any lawyer you hire is going to want. the purchase records are there to prove you had the licenses prior to them coming to you stating that you didnt. the legal group the engineering company I worked for used was Scott and Scott, iirc they are a bit pricey but they will minimize any fines or fees that could hit you from them. I say do your own due diligence first, then see where you stand. just because you didnt authorize the install of software doesnt mean you have not had an employee installing any and everything they could get a serial generator for, which on your machines, means you are responsible for it. Oh also dont go formatting and reinstalling the OS on all of your machines. this looks bad if it goes to court like you were trying to hide something according to the lawyers at scott and scott. I regret doing this to the engineering company myself, but in the end, they are better off for it. Autodesk gave them a huge break on network licenses for their CAD software, and they are now operating 100% legit on the software side for less in fines than it would have cost to buy the stuff out right.
Shit, boys, I think they got to this one!
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
No way to protect yourself from having to pay the lawyers though it seems ...
Ok, you must have a profitable company if the BSA is actually coming at you. I know because a former employer of mine was using tons of unlicensed software despite the advice of both myself and the company controller warning him that it wasn't right. So I dropped the dime to the BSA. Know what they told me? The company wasn't healthy enough financially to bother going after. So start hiding assets.
We've just gotten a letter from an attorney representing the Business Software Alliance stating someone (we're certain it's a disgruntled former employee) submitted information we are using illegally copied software.
Reply to the letter like this:
We are in receipt of your correspondence reference ____ dated _____. Could you please advise details of the claim. What software is claimed to be in breach?
Send the reply by registered mail and then do nothing more until you receive a reply.
Engage a lawyer who is experienced with the BSA.
As soon as you are done with your BSA nightmare, I advise you to stop using proprietary software. If Ernie Ball can do it, so can you.
See? If you'd been running Linux and all gpl'ed software, you'd have the absolute JOY of telling BSA to go take a flying leap at a rolling donut.. or other phrases I'm thinking but rather not say on a PG site.. As long as you're sure you have no BSA-repped commercial s/w on any machine, DARE them to come in for an audit.. Then when they find nothing sue them for harrasment. (and let the air out the tires of the audit teams tires)
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
No, do not do this. Do not have any contact with them that's not through a lawyer. This is very important if it should ever go to court. And yes, BSA hates going to court. That's exactly why you should do it this way. Document the hell out of everything.
Have a lawyer draft a letter saying you're in compliance, have them send it, registered mail, to the BSA. This should not coast more than $150 or so.
There is a 90% chance that the BSA will back off when you do this. They will see you aren't a pushover. If they ever show up at your door without a subpoena, ask them to leave. Then call the cops.
Posting near the top to state the bleeding obvious- 99% of Slashdotters are IANALs and many will offer advice that sounds sensible to them, but may turn out to be woefully misguided and possibly have unintended consequences and land you in hot water (e.g. advice like this). This is because the legal system does not always actually work like geeks think it does (regardless of whether it *should* work that way).
Bottom line- unless the person is a lawyer, or has actual experience of having gone through this (and the consequences that ensued), you should not be taking their advice. And as I said in the post linked above, the problem is sorting out the ones who *actually* know what they're talking about from the armchair lawyers arrogant enough to think that they do.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
I'm really glad the software shop I'm working with is on Linux. No Windows crap in sight. We could get one of those BSA letters and all have a good laugh.
I feel sorry for anyone that has to deal with the BSA. My condolences, but you should have chosen software without licensing issues. The idea of keeping track of the sales receipts as well as the licenses themselves is ridiculous. What would they do if you paid cash for the licenses? The source of the license does not matter as long as the license itself is not a forgery.
Do not say anything. Tell them to fuck off and don't address in particular or in general anything they alleged.
The *only* time you open your mouth to an agency (public or private) that is investigating you, whether it's the IRS, police, feds, or the BSA, is through a lawyer. That would typically take the form of a *response* to a demand letter.
A consultation and getting a response letter written by a good lawyer may run you circa $1-2k, but if the alternative is getting sued by the BSA or shutting down your company, it may be worth it.
Still, according to articles on the BSA, that's irrelevant and they'll end up suing us anyway.
First off, do not despair. That's not going to do you any good.
Don't be afraid to tell the lawyer that you don't have any money during your free initial 30 minutes consultation (assuming you're in the US, call your local State bar association for a referral). I'm sure that you'll be able to work something out with him or her.
For now, read the article quoted below. The point of that article is that you can do a lot of this work yourself, but that you should still hire a lawyer to at least "supervise" the self-audit process and act as a go-between.
Now the article doesn't mention it, but if I were you I'd check that any old computer laying around the closet has current valid licenses. Whatever happens, make sure you do not get penalized for super old hardware that you're not even using anymore. Also, start inspecting any computer the disgruntled employee has had access to. You never know what he may have installed on there without your knowledge. It's good to go in this with your eyes wide-open.
And then, try contacting the same types of companies in the same niche industry as yours, chances are that they're not just targeting you -- since they recently increased their volume of enforcement letters. So if you can find others within the same jurisdiction as yours, with a similar predicament, you may be able to band together and pool resources.
http://www.baselinemag.com/c/a/Projects-Management/What-to-Do-When-You-Receive-a-BSA-Audit-Letter/
Let's face it, software asset management (SAM) might be a best practice, but there are still plenty of organizations out there who haven't instituted SAM due to a lack of resources or initiative. If your organization is one of them and the Business Software Alliance (BSA) hasn't come calling yet, there's still time to get your house in order. But once that BSA threat letter hits the mailbox, the ballgame changes.
The BSA is known to be a persistent enforcement agency which rarely grants clemency to organizations once it begins settlement proceedings. The following eight tips are offered by two attorneys who specialize in BSA defense cases; they give advice on what to do once your business receives a letter requesting a BSA audit.
1. Retain a lawyer.
The BSA is an efficient organization when it comes to extracting punitive damages from companies found to be in a non-compliant licensing situation—its experts and lawyers know copyright laws inside and out because that is all that they do. For that reason, Scott recommends seeking legal counsel as soon as an audit request is received from the BSA.
"Whether the attorney is working in-house or outside the firm, don't go it alone," you have an audit," said Rob Scott, partner at Houston-based Scott and Scott. Scott said. "The BSA has very experienced attorneys working for it and this is a very complicated process. It involves not only the legal issues related to copyright law, but also it subsumes with it all of the software licensing rules because the copyright claim that lies underneath the BSA audit matter is related to the software licensing rules."
2. Cooperate—carefully.
As much as a business person would love to screw up their eyes and wish the BSA away, the trouble will only multiply through inaction. Though the BSA is not a law enforcement agency it is acting on the behalf of the software companies and it will take matters to civil court if a business does not cooperate with the self-audit process and settlement negotiations.
"When you get a letter from the BSA do not throw it away," said Steve Helland, partner at the Minneapolis-based law firm of Fredrikson and Byron. "That is a serious tip, because some people think that 'Oh if I ignore this it will just go away, but the cases where the BSA is most likely to file in court are where they think there has been infringement and they don't get any response
Tell them to go to hell and prove it in front of a judge and get a warrant. Don't let them in just beacuse they want to. Take your documentation for licenses and installs to court and show it to the judge. "we did an audit, this is what we use and we are licensed for these copies"
Also assume this "disgruntled ex-employee" planted something somewhere, so do another audit NOW.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
First order of business, pull up information on the lawyer that initiated contact with you to determine how much experience they have at the firm. If you're a small company they may have someone with limited experience, say three years, and if so, argue as much as possible and you may distract them from one of my other points.
Secondly, forget anything you believe to be true about software licensing and forget about license agreements included with software. What Microsoft, Autodesk, Adobe, etc. licensing department tell you on the phone and what they state in their licensing terms is not true and will not hold up legally unless you have more money than the fines to afford lawyers to fight the big guns. It's not a legitimate license unless you have a receipt. This is important, I repeat, you do not have a legitimate license unless you have a receipt for it. It doesn't matter if it's past 7 years, you have product keys on the side of your chassis, or you have discs; you must have it on the receipt.
Thirdly, do not provide information unless you're specifically asked for it. Read what they've requested, interpret it as literally as possible and if that allows you to include some information and not include other information. This point may not seem relevant to you and I'm not going to get into detail, but I want you to consider this point for at least an hour as the outcome may have a huge monetary difference.
Fourth, you can't buy stuff now and attempt to pass it off as something you'd purchased before they served you. Don't even consider back-buying software you didn't own before. Date of receipt ties into point number two.
Fifth, consider how they obtained this information and how much the person who provided it really knows. I won't give you advice on what to do with the software this person may not be aware of but I'd ensure your file servers are Linux and if you've ever made a transition from Windows to Linux, hopefully it was a transparent process to the users.
I won't get into details over our case as it cost us a tremendous amount of money, five figures, and at the same time, they may have missed a lot of stuff (the site is certainly fully legal now). If you have any other questions, feel free to fire them off and I'll try to answer as well as possible. The best advice I can give you is to consider this a logic problem.
In order to pass the BSA's version of an audit, you don't just need receipts. You need receipts that:
1. Show retail purchases. In spite of the fact that it is perfectly legal to sell and purchase used software, the BSA pretends it's not. If you have a not-retail receipt, it's worthless.
2. Show a date prior to the first contact from the BSA. If you have an un-dated receipt, it is worthless.
3. Show the title of each piece of software purchased, on its own line item (quantities of identical titles are fine), with a line item price. You likely can't provide this for the copy of Windows that came with your PC.
4. Show the name of the company being audited. Did one of your employee's buy it and get reimbursed? Worthless. Do you have company cards that show employee names? Worthless. Did the retailer not print the billing information on the receipt? Worthless. Was is purchased by a company you bought or merged with? Worthless
If you're incensed enough by now to invite the auditor's in, knock them on the head and bury them in the hill, good for you. But you'll likely want to pursue a more subtle response. An attorney is absolutely necessary, if for no other reason than that the lack of one will make you look like easy pickings. Winning this game is about paperwork, stalling, bluffing and bargaining. Once you retain an attorney, their advice will probably be to not respond outwardly until forced to. The BSA doesn't necessarily follow up on every nastygram they send. Responding when you don't have to is acting like a mark.
If the process does progress, remember at all times that what you are involved in, more than anything else, is a long, drawn-out negotiation. The BSA is out to scare people and fund itself. You want them to believe that you are worth very little and come with a big price tag attached. Everything is negotiable, every decision is mercenary.
So, basically, we are back to the times where people have to hire "goons" and/or "mercenaries" again to protect their "villages" from the "bandits", only these days they wear ties instead of rusty armour.
I agree with the above, but I would go further.
Ask that they state which software package is being used without proper licensing and on which machines so that you may properly investigate it yourself.
If the police come to your door and say, "I know you are breaking the law because of an unnamed snitch, please allow me to look around to see what I can find to use against you...and by the way, I get a commission from convictions." Would you allow them in?
Fight Spammers!
I'd pursue some form of extralegal remediation against that disgruntled former employee. And then follow it up with the same against the BSA lawyers. If the legal system doesn't protect the little guy, then nobody should be surprised when the little guy takes care of business without it.
I'm sure threatening to have the BSA's arms ripped out of their sockets because they're winning will go over great when they take you to court, Chewie.
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
No, this isn't legally gray. You're describing an attempt to shield assets in a way that is completely illegal ("fraudulent transfer" is the legal term). You can't possibly imagine that this would work for more than a week, can you?
Get legal help, now. The BSA will need to demonstrate that there is a real question about whether your software is "illegal" or not. If you have reasonable records, a judge can (can't promise that, though) grant a motion for summary judgment in your favor, dismissing the lawsuit.
Make it go to trial, and seek punitive damages if you can either from the former employee or the BSA for filing a frivolous lawsuit.
-- Anonymous coward (almost a lawyer)
Have a lawyer draft a letter saying you're in compliance, have them send it, registered mail, to the BSA. This should not coast more than $150 or so.
Don't take that $150 as a hard rule--rates vary by firm, attorney, location, etc...
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
This is about proving that you have purchased the license to run the software that the EULA applies to from a vendor who was licensed to sell it.
And the BSA already has someone saying that you have not.
If you have not purchased that license, then whether you are compliant with the EULA is immaterial. It is "pirated".
If you cannot demonstrate that you have purchased that license, when someone else is willing to claim that you have not, then you will probably lose in court.
Once you have demonstrated that you have legitimately purchased the license through a verifiable vendor, THEN the EULA comes into play. You can be in violation of the EULA even if you purchased the license (and can prove it).
It is complicated which is why you need a lawyer who has experience in this.
(IANAL, but an ex-paralegal.)
Better:
Dear BSA Attorney,
Thank you for your note of the 29th. We've reviewed software use at OurCompany and we have found no unlicensed nor unlawfully copied software.
We ask you:
Who has made these allegations against us? What precisely was alleged? Was there any ostensible evidence proffered to support these allegations?
We hope that our review has put these unfounded allegations to rest, and look forward to your reply,
You
If they want an audit, the reply to the request should note that you have privileged and proprietary information on your machines, that supervising the audit to ensure the security of this information and compensating for interference with and interruption of the operation of your computer systems will result in damages to your business, and while you are neither agreeing to nor refusing a software audit at this time, in discharging your obligations to your shareholders [and/or partners, investors, employees, etc. as appropriate] you would need non-disclosure agreements protecting your proprietary and privileged information, scrutiny of the backgrounds and prior approval of any proposed auditors, an agreement as to the limited scope, methods and purposes of the audit, a prior agreement as to the standards and consequences of such an audit, advance compensation for legal and other fees associated with the negotiation of their proposal and its implementation, and arrangements for specified compensation for any potential harm that might occur to your business, with acceptable performance bonds posted to ensure prompt compensation for any such harm. Further, you should request the full text and specifically applicable sections of any alleged potential contractual agreements which they believe may grant them any rights or impose any obligations to them by your company, with a notification of estoppel for any contractual claims of which they have not notified you, and reserving the right to dispute under estoppel, fraud or other theories any putative contractual claims made by them founded on the basis of alleged contracts to which both your company and the BSA are not both parties, putative contracts which were not signed, putative contracts which were not witnessed, putative contracts which were not sealed, putative contracts without demonstration of valid consideration, putative contracts in violation of law or public policy, including but not limited to: fraud, unconscionable, immoral, or impossible terms, coercive or misrepresented terms, those violating laws against barratry, maintenance, champerty, tortuous interference, frivolous and vexatious claims and litigation, and strategic lawsuits against public participation as well as any sections of such contracts violating , attempting to violate, or purporting to create a right to violate any of those laws or policies, or abridging, modifying, infringing or attempting or purporting to create a right to abridge, modify, or infringe any contractual rights assumed by law, including but not limited to peaceable enjoyment, warranties, implied terms, fair dealing and any other rights, privileges or legal theories which may be applicable to the case.
(Always use "alleged" or "putative" in connection with any "contract" which you might not want to follow slavishly - do not admit to the validity of any contracts with the BSA!)
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
A consultation will not cost as much as you expect. Gather up all your licenses, receipts, and certificates and have him send copies to the BSA along with what is euphemisitically called a "robust" response. You'll probably want to threaten to claim vexatious litigation and assert that you will ask that legal expenses be awarded. Don't let them do an "audit".
And in the future, perhaps you might want to consider not doing business with BSA members. There are alternatives. Just a thought...
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Do you honestly think they will give a s**t about that? The BSA is a criminal bully in the traditional style that dates back to the dark ages (google "Danegeld"). If you are guilty and can pay, they will get money, If you are innocent but go bust, you will be an encouragement to future victims.
If you shut down now, they will still go for you.
Get a lawyer.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
I don't happen to find any other post that mentions the elementary fact that unless you signed an agreement somewhere that gives the BSA the right to make an audit, you can just tell them to STFU and GTFO. If you bought everything at retail, for example, Best Buy, Provantage, PC Connection, etc, no such agreement would apply. It's when you buy site licenses or have to sign an agreement to make the purchase that you get roped in.
If there's something in the shrink wrap somewhere, then it gets murky. That's where they can claim that you "agreed" to something you never did, just by opening the package.
So step one is to ask them for their explicit basis of authority in your case.
... To deal with the BSA: it's the way of the knife. Alternatively, get a picture of their kids playing, superimpose a targeting reticle on their heads and anonymously e-mail them their personnel. Works like charm.
You're either a troll or a moron. Possibly both.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
If they want an audit, blah blah blah which may be applicable to the case.
That "paragraph" consisted of only two sentences, one of 176 words and the other of 235. Only a lawyer can abuse language in that manner. I call bullshit on your claim - you are a lawyer, aren't you?
Ahh - My eye!
The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
You say "(we're certain it's a disgruntled former employee)" and also, "The thing is... we're not using illegally copied software."
I'd say you almost certainly have illegal software and said disgruntled former employee is probably the one who installed it without your permission.
For years I was the poor schmuck who took on software licensing compliance for our company of around 10,000 computers. Since I know from sad experience you can never have enough paperwork to be proper butt-armor I put in a rather simple way of tracking our licenses.
Each and every paper license was identified with the purchasing department and the purchase order number. And every order was linked to a computer, which also had a purchase order number. So in essence everything we bought could be tracked back to the purchasing department and then if needed back to the vendor for copies of the actual invoice, etc.
It was horrible, time-consuming work. Especially since I was doing this in my "spare time" as it wasn't my primary job. Eventually they gave me someone to help with the drudge work. And finally they gave the whole thing to a manager no one could stand and no one would work for any more. They were so grateful for me setting up a turn-key process that they didn't even feel that they needed to mention it in the email to the division about the new manager. No, I'm not bitter.
And as a lighter note on ending I did send an initial contact from Microsoft's legal area running. They said we were underlicensed for Outlook and would require us to provide all kinds of information to prove we weren't. I politely answered that we used Lotus Notes; only two divisions used Outlook and we were migrating them; we actually did buy Outlook with every copy of Office; and we were probably overlicensed if anything and how we could get a refund for the extra licenses. Then I told them to come back when they could identify which of our 15 affiliates they believed to be out of compliance. Never heard from them again.
It is human garbage like you that give IT guys a bad reputation.
The guy did the correct thing, even if you don't like it. If the company was making money using the software, the least they can do is legally purchase the software.
Most of the time you hear about some disgruntled employee installing software all over the place before leaving the company and then calling the BSA. But this guy was supposed to be responsible for the IT department and 100% legally liable for the more than blunt violation of copyright. If he just walked out, the company would had blamed him for the illegal software and laugh while he is screwed.
First off, I am not a lawyer.... but the best option is to ignore them and hope that they go away. The BSA sends out scary letters all the time, but what can they really do? Send another even scarier letter? Don't talk to them, hang up when they call, and file their letters in a folder.
:)
:)
Here is how it works on the BSA side. A disgruntled employee contacts the BSA and makes the claim that a entity is using pirated software. They typically talk to the whisteblower multiple times on the phone and ask lots and lots of questions over and over before sending out the scary letter. They always run the risk that the person could be lying, crazy, or disgruntled.
In phase II, they get more legal and more specific and depose the informant and create a sworn statement. They put the informants claims in legalese and make them swear that it is true and sign it. After this happens, you will get scary letter two or three. Often times, the informant isn't disgruntled enough to perjure themselves and risk a countersuit from you company for monetary damages. The BSA will not go further without this because they don't want to be liable in a counter suit for civil damages. They need to show that they are acting in good faith that software piracy is occurring, without a specific sworn statement it amounts to hearsay. They pay a cash reward for information and they make the information work hard for the money they are never going to collect.
If you open the door and say, "Come on in and audit us, we've got nothing to hide." you are building a case against yourself. Even if you are legal, you're not since whatever proof you think you have will not be enough to appease them. In my opinion, the only way they can come in is if you let them in or a judge orders the audit as part of a discovery in a lawsuit. Apparently the EULA you clicked "I agree" to on install allows for auditing anytime, but no one has ever tested this legal theory. Meanwhile, do your own audit and make sure you are clean. Make it as difficult as possible on them and hope they go away. Then quit being such a jerk to your employees so they quite calling the BSA or switch to Open Source.
Watch this video for more details: The Bully Software Alliance
I love those sorts of licenses. Be sure to invite them in to discuss the matter. Right after posting a sign in your lobby that by entering the premises they consent to a strip search and body cavity search. With a splintered 2x4. Said sign should only be visible once they've actually entered the premises.
That's one nonsense legal concept that needs to go away NOW. I agree to something by AGREEING to it. Not by tearing plastic. Not by walking into your store. Not by browsing to your web site. It's called informed consent and should apply EVERYWHERE, and NEVER after the fact.
Stop treating employees like shit. For an ex-employee to goto this trouble. You had to have done something to deserve it.
Not really. Asshole employees are fired regularly, and the BSA has commercials running saying things like "just fired? Report your ex employer and earn a reward!"
if someone at NASA and Thiokol had 'snitched' on their management to the media, then the Challenger would never have gone up in cold weather, the o-rings wouldn't have failed, the gas wouldn't have erupted into the main tank, the tank wouldn't have ruptured, and 7 people would be alive.
but hey. i guess 'not snitching' is more important than the lives of seven people.
glad you have your principles in the right place.
..The BSA is a criminal bully in the traditional style that dates back to the dark ages (google "Danegeld")
The little nuggets of information dropped by knowledgeable slashdotters never cease to amaze me; the wiki article for Danegeld was fascinating, thanks. It serves to remind me of the rich European history I'd rather have learnt in school than the minutae of trivia I was forced to ingest instead.
..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
"Regardless of whether you agree with software licensing concepts, it is currently the way that our law works - and the BSA are the group that take civil action to uphold that law."
There are sometimes principles of justice that are more fundamental than the law. The law can be bought and sold, and the people who make and enforce laws are prone to error and corruption.
People who recognize, or who should recognize, that the law is flawed, but take advantage of that law (which they're in part responsible for corrupting) to bully and extort others, are fundamentally bad guys.
Well, this is sort of true. Courts can award them injunctions that warrant them the right to collect data from the premises as part of the discovery process. In this respect, they are still a private entity, but they have the backing of the court and generally a US marshal with them. Oh and they will be in possession of a court order at the same time.
First, they should have no authority to audit for any but their member companies (which are not that many).
Second, I would challenge any search they did. Make them get a warrant signed by an actual judge. Then complain about the Probable Cause all the way! They are NOT a Police Force. That's why they need a Federal Marshal along.
Third, I would challenge that they are not the Real Party In Interest. They lost nothing. If the actual company wants to sue you, fine; but the BSA is NOT properly a "Party". They are a meddling Interloper They are NOT "aggrieved". Get THEM kicked off the suit as having no Standing. They cannot receive a "settlement", because they suffered no damages. Therefore, they have failed to state a claim for which the Court can grant Relief (to them).
This came up on Slashdot years ago. Someone said they sent a letter pointing out that the BSA has no standing.
The BSA is certainly not a legal authority. It's a trade association. In most countries they don't have a right to "fine" you (but presumably they k now this and will call it a "fee")
As a trade association, it's a separate entity from the companies that licensed the software. As such it has no standing to sue. You company has never licensed software from the BSA, agreed to audits from the BSA, or agreed to pay the BSA for any of these costs.
The gist of it was you can tell the BSA to take a hike and demand to speak to the organisations directly regarding alleged infringement.
However, it seems that the only thing we are in disagreement with here is your understanding of what I said.
Um, I didn't misunderstand anything. A Court can't LEGALLY issue an Order to allow a PRIVATE COMPANY to come into your business and "Audit" or "Sieze" SHIT.
Do you REALLY think that a Court could issue an Order to allow ME to "audit" or "sieze evidence" from YOUR BUSINESS???
Guess what? Neither can the Court issue an Order to allow the BSA to act like LAW ENFORCEMENT, in ANY CAPACITY WHATSOEVER.
If the Congress decided the PEOPLE wanted a "Software Police", it would pass a LAW to create such an entity, and would grant it certain "Police Powers". Until then, you can safely tell the BSA to go pound sand. Congress hasn't empowered them to execute a Search Warrant, and a Court sure as hell can't, either. Oh, and there is simply no such thing as a "Search Warrant" that would allow for SEIZURE of ANYTHING in a CIVIL case.
Remember, simply POSSESSING an "unauthorized copy" is NOT a violation of Copyright law. They have to prove DISTRIBUTION to someone else BY YOU. So "having a Federal Marshall along" is nothing more than a bullshit INTIMIDATION tactic. It's a CIVIL matter, NOT CRIMINAL! The Federal Marshall has ZERO power in that situation.
So, it is not my reading comprehension that needs work. It is your understanding of the difference between a Civil matter and a Criminal one.