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Early Look At The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Bethesda plans to launch their newest Elder Scrolls game, Skyrim, in November, and they've finally started to take the wraps off the game. A preview at Eurogamer provides some information about the game's combat, the UI, and exploration of the game world. Quoting:
"RPGs send you into menus more than almost any other game genre, so it's weird that more thought doesn't go into inventory design, but as I play around with powers, weapons and items to lighten my load it becomes clear that Skyrim is a welcome exception. Its nested menus are accessed almost as smoothly as iPad page swipes, and navigating them is quick and clean. You can set favorites, equip items to either hand, and examine things in detail. More than once during my brief hands-on I have to rotate an object to look for a clue to a puzzle, or read a document, and it's all done without going to a different screen or do anything more complex than wiggling sticks and hitting a face button. It's easy to imagine that a system like this in Oblivion or Fallout could have shaved hours off the average player's actual game-time. As it is, it saves valuable seconds in my hands-on, and seconds are my currency today, so thank you to whomever at Bethesda designed the inventory."
Am I the only one to think that they want to make it a plain console game, slowly taking away the RPG features. Okay, it's not yet a giant corridor with a single path. I don't want to say "things were better back then"... but look at all the gameplay possibilities the player lost since TES 2: Daggerfall... Climbing, Flying, many objects and inventory slots, spells... That said, I'm not really impressed by this Skyrim preview... but I look forward to try it. I don't want to rage about a game I didnt try.
Is its DRM reasonable? If you buy the game, can you play and reinstall it as many times as you want on whatever computer you want, and can you play it without internet connection if single player?
Thanks.
Stick!? Face button!? What are these foreign things you speak of!? My TES uses a moue and keyboard. I hope there's no port drama.
Disappointedly, that's what she said
If I was witty I'd put something funny here but, as it stands, I am not and have just wasted seconds of your life
One thing that bugs me about Bethesda is that they almost never ramp up the excitement. Sure there are plenty of interesting story lines, but I can probably count on half a hand the moments where something really exciting happened—a situation that made me go "oh shit!" and freak out a little about how I was going to survive. Not every quest line needs to have an awesome climax, but they could definitely use a lot more.
And make magic a first-class citizen, please. I'd love to use it heavily for offense/defense, but it was weak as hell in Oblivion compared to just wildly swinging a sword around. I really like being able to get creative about things, like walking on water while shooting enemies with my bow as they try to swim toward me. Other times I just want to be a little more Rambo and run in throwing fireballs looking badass. But in Oblivion the fireballs look and act like you're just throwing candles. There's nothing badass about them.
I don't care what the previews say, good or bad, my copy is reserved and my kids have ordered theirs too. Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion have all kept me entertained for hundreds of hours, and I doubt Skyrim will be any different.
Hal Spacejock: Science Fiction with Nuts
Morrowind, horribly crippled on the PC with regards to loading, although this was fixed when the PC only expansions arrived which suddenly realized PC's had more then 32mb of ram available and a speedy HD. Before: Loading every other step After: No loads ever.
Oblivion, OH MY GOD CAN THAT TEXT BE ANY LARGER and an inventory system from hell.
Consolitus has struck heavily in the realms of the elder scrolls. Luckily so far the games have been very modifiable meaning paying customers could fix the game unpaid but beggars can't be choosers.
At least they still bother with PC versions. Yes I am looking at you Rockstar, feeling to good to acknowledge your roots eh?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Hang on a minute here - yes I am pissed off with the amount of worship the iPad gets in the media, mostly because the optimum tablet format (convertable PC) was quietly ignored by most geeks (go look at the HP tm2 - the fuckin thing can PLAY Oblivion on it's Radeon HD 3 series at native resolutions at 30+ fps!!!) BUT
and THIS IS A BIG BUT
Where the hell does he mention the iPad in TFA?
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Yes. At least according to Bethesda.
Oh hang on... I'll explain...
You're obviously correct, however, because the comment was on-context for what he was describing it passed right over my head!
So fair point, my observation skills are at fault here. Sorry everyone (winds neck back in) - don't you just hate looking dumb?
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In tomorrows news, Bethesda has been sued for patent infringement
and what's wrong with that? It's 2011, a dual analog controller should be standard PC equipment by now. Cross platform is here to stay. just stop worrying and love the dualshock. Oblivion was a well regarded game on all 3 platforms. Ignore the PC partisans that say you need to mod it for it to be playable, that's nonsense and traditional PC gamer snobbery. Yes it has a 10 foot UI, deal with it.
Where the hell does he mention the iPad in TFA?
Here (it's even in the summary):
Its nested menus are accessed almost as smoothly as iPad page swipes
Note that the AC missed that it was a comparison to the smoothness of the menu system only, not a statement that the game will run on an iPad - it most definitely won't.
"Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
Yes, I have been corrected and have thanked the AC (for once!) above. I missed it because the comparison was such a reasonable one, in context (the old menus were crap!)
For those iFans out there, read my GP. That tablet really does run oblivion, in fact their 2006 tx2500 model does too (but at around 19fps as opposed to 30fps) so why all the fuss for a closed, underpowered, out-of-date piece of crap like the iPad? That's why I jumped straight in, I have a lot of tension about stupid people, commercial interests, and the two coming together to make life shit, when it could be great, for everyone.
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There's a difference between actual content and unnecessary time sink. Futzing with the GUI because you're messing with your inventory is an unnecessary time sink. If Bethesda is going out of their way to remove the unnecessary time sinks to make their game easier to use and in favor of content (see rotating objects for plot cookies), I'm okay with that.
But...but...but...I haven't even finished playing Oblivion yet! In fact, I've only had it since March of 2006!!
Bullshit. And frankly, the farther I see you going down this line of pulling stuff out of the ass about keyboard controls, the more comical it gets.
A bunch of us have been playing TES games just fine with a keyboard and mouse too. And there are many millions of people world-wide playing WoW and other games just fine with keyboard and mouse.
And sorry, MOVEMENT is hard for you with a keyboard? WTF were you even trying to do, that movement was such a problem? Tightrope walking? Or WTH? Especially if we move out of the realm of FPS frag-fests and into RPGs like the TES series, then we can pretty much even exclude "jump puzzles" too, and I'm drawing blanks for ANY game where accurate movement with a keyboard or anything else was ever a problem.
Was there any map in Oblivion where it even mattered if you moved half a foot more or less with the keyboard than with a gamepad? Even the extremely few places where you could take a shortcut by jumping, were actually made for a game where Acrobatics skill made a huge difference in how much you CAN jump. I.e., the maps were designed for the case that you really can't jump more than a couple of FT.
So even in your delusional world where apparently PC gamers don't have trained thumbs and presumably can't press the space bar in the same time as you push the jump button, where the fuck in Oblivion did it ever matter how precisely you move with a keyboard?
Look, I know it's usual among cretin console fanboys to just make up their delusional bullshit about PC gaming. But, really, when you have to reach for such idiotic extremes of bullshit as that
- MOVEMENT with a keyboard and mouse is a problem, or that
- everyone disagreeing with your delusions is only playing FPS frag-fests, or that
- everyone disagreeing with your delusions doesn't also play console games, and doesn't have enough training with a controller to make an informed comparison (hint to the clueless: some of us play both)
that should give you pause for thought, really.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
"PC gamer snobbery" - you've just played your last card. I've sussed you. You can't afford to build a PC so we who can (and it's not much of a stretch, I'm currently unemployed!) must be snobs, what with wanting to customise the experienceand make it, err, better!
"stop worrying and love the dualshock" = we pwn you on level ground with our input devices, someone else slammed your reply to me above and my point was proven, and our games look and play better, so instead of aspiring to be like us you try to ram your crappy hardware down our throat?
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Us PC-gamers play our games on the keyboard and mouse because it is the basis UI, the conversion to joypads is a bad afterthought.
Joypads are great for platformers and Streetfigher type fighters etc and for the people who enjoy to play all kinds of games on the joypad, more power to them, but joypads on the PC doesn't really need a standard dual analogue controller, it already has that with the xbox 360 controller.
I bought Oblivion for the PS3 for +/- 6 euros and am playing through it. It is playable, but the experience on the PC is a lot better, just because the UI is a lot better. Don't really care about the mods personally.
This is the sig that says NI (again)
Normally I'd agree with you about impatient gamers, however, that isn't the issue here.
The author is grateful for extra seconds because a) this is the first time anybody outside Bethesda has play-tested the new engine and b) they are being rushed for time by the people attending the console demos at the event.
He says so in TFA.
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and what's wrong with that? It's 2011, a dual analog controller should be standard PC equipment by now.
Hint: It isn't, because we have something better: a mouse.
Once you have an analogue controller that allows you to turn around and aim at an arbitrary tiny spot of your choice within a fraction of a second, you can come back.
The only thing I feel a PC need is a WASD touchpad replacement, that offers infinite directions instead of just eight. But a mouse against the other controller is no contest at all - the mouse wins for both speed and accuracy.
Yeah. They should just create less actual game content and instead require you to get through 15 levels of tetris in order to move an item in your inventory. You'd get to spend way more time playing their $60 game then.
As far as I can tell, the combat is still dependent on *my* twitch shooter skills as much as *my character's* combat skills. So whatever wonderful story, exploring and interacting experiences are on offer, I'm not going to get to see them.
Combat doesn't *have* to be turn-based, I've learned to work with Dragon Age, for example. But it *should* be based on my character's abilities tied to my decision making, e.g. I choose to shoot a bow at the orc over there, the character's archery skill determines if I hit. If my accuracy at pointing something in the right direction with my right thumb is involved, it's an FPS, and I'm not interested in playing it.
I'm still baffled as to why this series is held up as the crown of "hard-core" RPGs, when it's such a hybrid...
More than once during my brief hands-on I have to rotate an object to look for a clue to a puzzle, or read a document, and it's all done without going to a different screen or do anything more complex than wiggling sticks and hitting a face button. It's easy to imagine that a system like this in Oblivion or Fallout could have shaved hours off the average player's actual game-time.
Uh, now every time I pick up something I need to visualize it in 3 dimensions and then figure out if something is scrawled on the back of it? This is in a world where you can grab and lift just about everything in the game?
This is starting to sound like something out of Riven, where somehow the designers confused challenge with tedium (walk up to door, then turn around 180 degrees and click the magic pixel on some object).
He had an hour to play and then Bethesda kicked him off the system. That's why.
Once you have an analogue controller that allows you to turn around and aim at an arbitrary tiny spot of your choice within a fraction of a second, you can come back.
Why on earth would this be relevent to an RPG, rather than an FPS?
All I can say is if the inventory system is once again designed for some crappy console on a 320 line screen like Oblivion's was, I'll be waiting to buy this until the PC-mods come out.
Other games have had that issue, but I never played a game (up to that point) on a PC that was so clearly designed out of the box for a console/gamepad that it made PC play almost painful.
-Styopa
How nice, the game developers are looking for ways to help us spend even less time with their $60 games. I'm so glad they've got our best interests at heart.
No, they are trying to allow you, in your limited time for gaming (well, I have limited time anyways!), to enjoy the *game* and not have to hassle with menu hierarchies and clunky UIs simply to add a spell to a quickslot or drop an item from your inventory. They want you to spend more time enjoying the game elements, not the menus. Sounds good to me.
Camera rotation in the RPG is the same, and navigating anything more complex than the Final Fantasy menus on the NES/SNES is faster and easier with a mouse than a joypad.
Skyrim is an RPG with an FPS world interface, so it's completely relevant. Pretty much any MMO you want to pick is the same.
Joypads are great for games that have limited UIs and non-3d worldspace. Otherwise, they can't hold a candle to a mouse. That's not fanboyism; it's fact.
As far as I know it was "patched out" pretty much days after XP was published.
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
Those scores seem fair to me...
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
From the article:
How nice, the game developers are looking for ways to help us spend even less time with their $60 games. I'm so glad they've got our best interests at heart.
Don't get me wrong, I like a well designed inventory as much as anyone, but I'm uncomfortable with the notion that a game developer would have as a goal, making our experience of their game shorter.
To be fair, Bethesda is not one of the companies that's really guilty of cheating us out of game-time like some others I won't name (Infinity Ward). I've never really played a Bethesda game and felt like I didn't get my money's worth.
Are you suggesting that time spent juggling inventory is quality game time? I've spent huge amounts of time doing that and similar management tasks in Bethesda games and I'd certainly welcome an interface that made it less tedious without dumbing it down. I've also spent far more time in each of those games than any official estimates of how long it takes to finish. If Skyrim is half the size and complexity of any of their earlier games, it'll be easily worth the money.
Less time? These games take forever to play if you like to explore and follow the side quests and such. These are the best value for the money out there I think. But they're not for the typical fps shooter on rails fan, they're about world immersion and RPG.
The goal here is probably to fix up the incredibly annoying inventory system that was in Oblivion, which was only slightly improved upon in Fallout3. It's almost like they added this cumbersome system in order to artificially extend play time :-)
But it's an inherent problem in this style of game, since you can pick up just about everything, even useless junk. So your inventories become extremely full. I have not seen many RPGs that can realistically handle inventory. Weight limits don't cut it, "bulk" tweaks don't work. The magical backpack that holds all shape of objects and which can be accessed instantly is a staple of RPGs but is a bit silly. Maybe a system that lets you have 20 arrows in a quiver, one sword in a scabard, a money pouch, a couple things on your belt, and a backpack that only holds relatively small items or a horse with bedroll and saddlebags. Then the player has to just leave all that loot behind, fundamentally changing how the games play. If you want to drag back all that Daedric armor then you need to bring a cart.
I will buy this game if the following are true (as compared with Oblivion):
1) Creatures don't level along with the player. I hate almost every game I've played that has this mechanic. It's not that I like to grind a lot and breeze through boss fights or anything, it's just that I like to feel I've progressed in the game or that there is a reason to actually level up. Creatures leveling up with the player destroys that feeling for me.
2) The game is playable in third person mode. Yes, I know there was a third person mode in Oblivion but it was horribly clunky, especially in combat. First person RPG's suck.
That is all.
IIRC, the point here is to spend less time on pointless shit, AKA "the grind," and more time playing the damn game. IMHO this can only be a good thing.
Crap. What did the new CSS do with the "Post anonymously" option??
Of course not. I'm suggesting that it's not a good sign when developers are looking for ways to "shave hours off the average player's actual game-time" as the article suggested.
The article didn't mention "quality game time".
You are welcome on my lawn.
That's what I said, Bethesda is one of the good ones.
Wait, you're concerned about the reality of a "magic backpack" in a game that allows you to cast spells to kill dragons? Once you accept the premise that there is magic that allows electric bolts to shoot out of your fingertips, and freezing rays to be emitted that will immobilize monsters, and spells that allow you to bring life back to the dead, I don't understand how you still suggest that "magic backpacks are silly".
You are welcome on my lawn.
Well, there is some sort of realism necessary for the immersion. That's the whole point of making the graphics look better in the first place. The problem was more acute in Fallout 3 I think and similar games. I see myself wearing a vault dweller suit but I'm carrying tons of equipment. I'm carrying 93 mini nukes somewhere on my person, each one the size of a football. Even in Fallout New Vegas on "hardcore mode" where ammo has weight you could carry a ridiculous amount of it.
I just think it would be interesting to upend the basic strategy of "loot everything that's not nailed down and sell it" that all RPGs have.
Once you have an analogue controller that allows you to turn around and aim at an arbitrary tiny spot of your choice within a fraction of a second, you can come back.
Skyrim is a fantasy RPG, you're not going to be needing to headshot some Strogg's tiny 4 pixel head from a mile away while bunnyhopping around in it.
You can't afford to build a PC so we who can (and it's not much of a stretch, I'm currently unemployed!) must be snobs, what with wanting to customise the experienceand make it, err, better!
uname -a
Linux wutai 2.6.40-4.fc15.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jul 29 18:46:53 UTC 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : AuthenticAMD
cpu family : 16
model : 6
model name : AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 240 Processor
free
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 3091000 943984 2147016 0 101368 459780
-/+ buffers/cache: 382836 2708164
Swap: 4915196 0 4915196
lspci
02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GT216 [GeForce GT 220] (rev a2)
This machine obviously exceeds the minimum and recommended specs for two of the biggest PC games: Team Fortress 2 and world of Warcraft. And I do play LOTRO on it now and again...can't stand the WASD movement though. I play the PS3 version of FreeRealms more, it's more enjoyable with the DualShock...especially the kart racing.
It's not any better, it truly isn't. It's different, yes, but not better.
"stop worrying and love the dualshock" = we pwn you on level ground with our input devices,
But aren't console gamers and PC gamers brethren? Do we not basically play the same games now? Why the hostility why the condescenscion towards cross platform? Is it because you know that hardware really doesn't matter so much anymore and you hate that?
someone else slammed your reply to me above and my point was proven, and our games look and play better,
They do? Sure you can mod games to shit but does it make it truly better or is it something only for the obsessive nerds. Sure you've got somewhat higher resolution displays but there comes a point of diminishing returns. They might look some better, but is it worth the extra expense for only a slight improvement that most people can't tell the difference?
so instead of aspiring to be like us you try to ram your crappy hardware down our throat?
My hardware I use for games most of the time is designed for games....yours is not, at it's core it's a machine designed for spreadsheets and word processors with add on kludges to enable it play games. Sure they work pretty well, but they're not efficient like a games console has to be. Need I remind you that in the early days of the IBM PC, the C64, originally designed as a game console (The C64 is basically a Commodore Max with a keyboard) like the Amiga after, was considered superior? Even the NES was considered superior for action games.
And even before then, before there were any gaming PC's in the homes, there was the Odyssey, and the famous Atari 2600 was released the same year as the Apple II, easily outsold it too.
So don't give me any shit for using a console, especially not for a Bethesda game.
Kudos for that whoami output or whatever (I can't be bothered to check, it was either that or uname output). Fair enough on that front, whilst I got a little angry about your console-orientated POV it would appear that you're not stupid, nor are you "religious" about the differences.
Regarding what you said after that, especially misquoting me regarding dual-shock, I still win on the original argument, which is that we pwn with kb+m and that's why they stopped us competing online.
Regarding efficiency, no, you're wrong, a modern gaming PC is not much less efficient than it would be if it was purpose-designed now, and modern "Xbox" consoles are stripped down generic PCs with low cost, high volume parts. But you make some interesting points about the early days (I had an Amstrad CPC myself, so I always did see it as a computer first and game second), especially about NES and Amiga.
I didn't give you shit for using a console, and I'm glad that you would choose Oblivion et al. to play on it, it started as an honest-to-goodness rant replying to your assertion that pads are as good as mice, which they aren't, except for certain (dated) purposes such as platformers and racers. It kind of got out of control after that because you were attacking me, and I defended my corner. I was further encouraged by others' support, and still stand by all the statements I made, except the couple about whether you own a PC.
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Now that's a little different, since Fallout doesn't take place in a magical universe.
The more I think about games and how they are designed, the more convinced I am that it must be wicked-hard to design a good one.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Kudos for that whoami output or whatever (I can't be bothered to check, it was either that or uname output).
uname -a...had to update my PS3 for PSN or I could have done uname on it as well (had Yellow Dog LInux on it). I could still do it on a PS2 (yes, I have had the Linux kit since 2002), but it's put away and not connected and I lost my VGA dongle. You would probably think my gaming setup funny.
I have a small 19" HDTV (1440x900, yeah I want a small 1920x1080 to replace it when it dies) on a desk that both my PS3 and PC are connected to. Got used to using a desk with a console in the PS2 days, helped with the MMORPG's...and Linux. I use an HDTV so I can hook up my SNES and NES as well when I'm jonesing for some oldies..and emulators are not the same! I'd use a PC 1920x1080 monitor with HDMI but then I'd lose the ability to hook up any older console to it without the hassle of adapters.
Not a Sinclair Spectrum? Waits for someone to start an inevitable Speccy vs C64 flame (not me!) The CPC never made it over across the pond I think.
I didn't give you shit for using a console, and I'm glad that you would choose Oblivion et al. to play on it,
Thankees, I like a good RPG, though the real oldbies go on and on about Baldur's Gate or Planescape being the ultimate and how Oblivion (and Dragon Age and practically anything made after Baldur's Gate) isn't a REAL RPG. I started in tabletop so I was very happy when some PC RPG's got NES and SNES ports. That mostly ended though, the PSone didn't get RPG ports, shooters and sports games for the dudebro gamers. Never owned an Xbox so no Morrowind, it's one of the few Xbox games I've ever wanted to play besides Steel Battalion with that crazy cockpit style controller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_Battalion As an aside, don't play the PSone version of Mechwarrior II without the giant Dual Analog flightstick, much better control...but you can't plug it into a PS3. Also most PS2/PS3 flight games (I won't call them flight sims, that pisses off the bearded guys) support USB HOTAS.
it started as an honest-to-goodness rant replying to your assertion that pads are as good as mice, which they aren't, except for certain (dated) purposes such as platformers and racers.
this is where we disagree, I think the dual analog sticks work pretty well with all genres, they're not perfect, but a good compromise that I'm willing to use with MOST games...not all. @#$# Timesplitters. But as I said, console on the desktop so I can plug in a mouse and/or keyboard if I want for specific games. Did you know the PS3 version of Oblivion supports USB keyboard for text entry: naming spells, items, and your character? That's the only thing you can use it for though, it uses the standard PS3 text widget which automatically supports USB keyboard if you have one plugged in.
I would also never use a dual analog controller with a racer like Gran Turismo...found that out with GT2 back on the PSone! The games are now designed with wheels in mind so the license challenges are more difficult (sometimes insanely difficult) if you use a controller. So difficult that I get stuck and can't progress much.
Kart racers are fine.
I also discovered that mice are only slightly better than a gamepad with classic RTS at least the ones I've played, all PSone RTS's that I have, have PSone mouse support. Not really enough to make a difference in play. In fact with one, Warzone 2100 is annoying in that some things are much easier with the dual shock (It actually has analog support)...and some are easier with the PSone mouse.
There's also a PSone shooter that should ONLY be played with the PSone mouse aiming, that being Alien Resurrection. You have such limited ammo, even on easy, that you have to conserve it which requires headshots. The game focuses so much on pinpoint headshots at range that
I set aside vacation time for Elder Scrolls after Daggerfall nearly made me fail college.... So, there are just a couple requests that I hope Skyrim delivers on:
No multiplayer. Every game doesn't HAVE to have a multiplayer mode. I don't want to talk to other people while I'm playing this game.
No online-always DRM. I want to buy the best GPU on the market the day the game comes out, put it in my 6 core AMD 1100T, backup linux, install windows, install skyrim, and drive to a cabin in the mountains with no internet and play the game for three weeks straight.
No micropayments. For the love of all things good, I would pay $100 for this game if they follow my rules. Facebook games started this micropayment cancer, and they deserve to burn in hell for it.
Shit, I could convince myself that $200 is ok, as long as there is not f-ing multiplayer, the thing works offline, and there's no nickle-and-diming me.