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Microsoft Wants Your Feedback On Its New Python IDE
First time accepted submitter phoolishcyrus writes "Dear Slashdot: would you kindly take a look at our little project, PTVS — Python Tools for Visual Studio? It helps you develop Python (using any interpreter, not just IronPython) and comes with a few other goodies. Spare no punches."
"Note: PTVS does not install into VS Express Editions". It needs some sort of Visual Studio Shell, which is separate from VS Express for some odd reason.
And has Microsoft added the necessary pieces to the version of the .NET Compact Framework for Xbox 360 Indie Games and Windows Phone 7 to allow DLR languages such as IronPython to work in applications for those platforms?
Maybe there's people who already have Visual Studio for other work purposes and also do python stuff?
It seems unlikely they'd make it if there was nobody using python on Windows.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
I find it okay to work in. Coming from VI and the command line some of the features are nice, others not so much. One thing I noticed about the python plugin for VS is that when using PySide, you must run in interactive mode, rather than debug. A nice feature that I found lacking was for VS to automatically generate a list of classes and functions for a library that is imported. Obviously this tool is integrated fairly heavily into python at points as evident in the profiling section ( good work by the way ), so it would be handy to refresh classes/module listings when "import foo" or "from foo import bar" was detected in a save. All in all, not a bad development system.
After using IDLE, Emacs, and Elcipse (on install worked decent, a later install sucked), I'm certainly willing to try it. I like Python, it's just hard to find a decent auto-complete (which, given python, is very understandable - heck, you can trivially add/remove member from an object runtime.)
Stupid python tricks:
__builtins__.__dict__['fool'] = 1 #`print foo` produces 1
__builtins__.__dict__['some variable']=45 #`print some variable` obviously can't work, but it is still amusing
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Whilst you continue extorting $5 per Android handset from HTC your new touchy-feely lets-be-buddies act is worth less than piss froth. So no, I won't even be dignifying your request with a visit to your site out of curiosity.
The problem with these movies is that they end where the bigger bully leaves town. What they don't show is that the bully returns to his start-of-the-movie-ways.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
>Would you kindly?
Microsoft, would you kindly ask for our review without using mindtricks and making me question my true origin, as I did check out the plugin after reading that line?
Btw. does anyone use IronPyhton and F#, or they just look good in PR blurbs?
Seriously, F# is awesome. These course notes and code examples explain why in far more detail than I ever could. http://www.itu.dk/courses/BPRD/E2010/.
Don't get too used to the UI. I hear the next version has a Ribbon Bar for Python, which puts 70% of the most-commonly used commands right where you need them. The other 30% of the commands are there too... somewhere.
I am **extremely** impressed. It's, by far, my favourite Python IDE (I'm using it in the free Visual Studio shell...)
One drawback is that it encourages editing python under Windows rather than on a Unix-like platform, but that's something I can live with when it delivers productivity.
I'm yet to use it for a real project - but I'm looking forwards to that experience.
I'd definitely encourage anyone to, at least, give it a try.
Why would Python programmers be averse to Windows?
Some programmers are religious.
No sig today...
First all python IDEs I've used stink. Now I have not used them all so I'd be happy to hear suggests but please keep reading. So MS entry is welcome
Second, unless this IDE is cross platform it will HURT not help python programming. Even if you plan just to eat your own dogfood, you mere use of it means that it MS only features wil creep into your lexicon and those of your colleagues. Don't do that. use cross platform tools.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Warning! Potentially dumb question:
What value does a Python IDE provide? Given that Python is strongly typed only at run-time, the IDE cannot perform syntax-completion, rename variables, provide warnings/errors as you type, provide context sensitive help, etc., that you would normally get with an IDE for a statically typed language such as Java. Might as well just stick to using your favorite text editor.
Visual Studio is a huge project that requires special features from the OS (like debugging ports for the debugger). Porting it to Unix would be a massive undertaking. And what would be the gain? Who would buy it? Maybe some on OS X, but there's already XCode, which I understand to be at least half-way decent, depending on who you ask, and not likely to be unseated by a Windows-style program from the Great Satan. MS won't make any money on the 7 Linux users who would actually buy Visual Studio. It just simply is not worth the cost, not even worth discussing further. MS isn't being evil by not porting it to Unix (which, by the way, is not some singular platform, but a variety of subtly and not-so-subtly different implementations with their own long lists of gotchas and missing features), they are being smart.
as best I can (while running between meetings)! Thanks for all your comments & questions so far.
Background info:
PTVS is basically a 2 person (1 dev, 1 test) effort. Recently we had a summer intern & a new dev has joined since to work on Big Data (think dryad/hadoop/etc) which is great. We've been running "under the radar" so to speak until now. The parts that we're actually most proud of are that we convinced mgmt to let us do this as Open Source, and more importantly under Apache 2.0. The fact we can actually accept code contributions back (may be a 1st?) is huge too. Not a big deal for most, but trust me, as staunch pro OSS guys, it was a big deal & took a lot of work to accomplish...
Thanks in advance & on to answering questions...
PS Just updated the project page w a couple of videos to give you an overview. Excuse the cheesy production, we don't exactly have a marketing dept.
PTVS - Core editing experience : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CoGsSlrxKk
PTVS - Profiling : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCx7rlPyEzE
bigsexyjoe, that's a good question. It's not "MS" that's wants feedback. It's the 3 ppl that work on the project that want feedback. 99.99% of MS doesnt even know we exist :)
Yes, we can go to an MS forum & get nice pats on the back, but we figured you guys will give us some honest feedback we can't get anywhere else.
A cynic might surmise that they're just putting more effort into concealing their embedded evil.
What does this have to do with Windows Mobile?
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