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HP Begins Laying Off WebOS Developers, Potentially Firing CEO
MrCrassic writes "Looks like it might be the beginning of the end for webOS presence at HP, as The Register announced that they laid off 525 webOS developers." From the article: "HP is laying off up to 525 staff from its global webOS hardware biz, according to reports. The tech titan confirmed last month it is shuttering the unit that produced the ill-fated TouchPad and Pre3 devices. 'As communicated on 18 August, HP will discontinue the development of webOS devices within the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2011, which ends 31 Oct 2011,' an HP spokesperson told AllThingsD in the US."
So far it looks like just the hardware designers are being let go. The HP board happens to be meeting today, possibly to discuss firing the current CEO for failing to improve the company's financial prospects.
Would it be possible to lay those off too and replace them with IT people?
...that nothing they do makes any sense.
There must be some really good BeOS and Palm employees in there who made some really nice software but failed to make an impact, really sad that Leo who was at SAP for 18 years was put in charge of HP, which has a big hardware component. Leo wants to kill off the hardware and go corporate services.
This space for rent.
This is exactly what they said they would do a month ago. They have been quite clear going forward, they would continue work on webOS itself, just not webOS hardware. So I don't see how this is the "end" of webOS at HP, it's the same thing they've been saying for a month now.
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
Note that the article says "hardware staff" not "WebOS Developers." Since HP is discontinuing hardware development for WebOS platforms this is not surprising. I suspect they will continue to own the operating system in hopes of licensing it to other companies.
Who s*cked more at their job, but gets a golden parachute?
Apotheker has to be one of the worst appointments I've seen in 20 years.
At least Chain-saw Al Dunlap was hired for the express purpose of being a major league a-hole.
Apotheker showed a shocking poverty of understanding of the empire he was entrusted to run that it makes me seriously question the competency of the people that vetted him?
Old age and treachery almost always overcome youth and skill.
That depends. Hardware or software R&D? I don't know anything about Accenture, but HP could be a bit of a gamble at the moment. I've seen previous employers hire people just to lay them off in a month or two, along with others.
This should not come as a shock to anyone. If I was a WebOS developer working for HP, you can bet your ass I'd have been spending the last couple of months applying elsewhere. As far as the CEO - I'm sure he has a nice, golden parachute. Bend over, stockholders....
They may not have had months of notice. The HP Touchpad firesale was only about 5 weeks ago. I talked to an HP employee the day before the announcement, and she had no idea this was going on. She dealt exclusively with the Touchpad.
Hp is a sinking ship that cant attract anyone that has any management skills. The current guy has a bad track record, and the possible replacement they are looking at, she's not much better.
This is what happens when your products suck, your service sucks, and most people say, "HP? that stuff is crap, dont buy it"
The only way to turn it around is to start "not sucking"....
Step 1 - Fire every designer in the laptop division. Whoever green lighted the seamless trackpad should be tied up and whipped in front of all the other employees as an example.
Step 2 - Fire every stylist in the PC division. Sorry but trendy = dumb and that failure of a removable drive bay needs to go. Anyone that says the word "proprietary" or "custom designed" needs to be smacked in the face without hesitation and the word "NO" yelled in their face.
Step 3 - Fire everyone in the Printer driver division. IF the driver is not a simple small single file then it's garbage. No I dont want to install 160meg of helpers. Nobody does.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
meaning, the management want to see how to market reacts to the news before actually make the decision. as of 12:05 pm, HPQ is up 7.52%. this indicates the market agree with BOD that CEO should go. you can figure out the rest....
I have a feeling the bean counters have taken over completely at HP. Engineers are a cost center. Get rid of engineers. Software developers are a cost center. Get rid of software developers. Since no one in the US is willing to work for 7 cents per hour, all manufacturing takes place in China. Sell the buildings that used to contain engineers and software developers. HP will then consist of CXO's on the top floor of one building, with the next floor dedicated to bean counters, and the main floor for overseas operations (bean counters never consider themselves to be a cost center). Its easier to outsource operations, so the overseas operations will be 'rent-a-plant', and since that also includes 'rent-an-engineer', everything but the head office will be overseas. Next to go is the bottom floor. Sell to the overseas manufacturer, give the top two floors a cushy severance, and wind that baby down. Its not like Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard are around anymore. The founding engineers are gone. The glory days of the company were when the founders founded it, and ran it for the first 20 years. The next 20 years saw growth, but not quite so much glory for new hires. The next 20 years saw new managers come in when the founding engineers retired but oversaw things. Things got more corporate. Still an ok company to work for, but not great. The founders die, more management changes (bean counters take over). Bill Hewlett died in 2001, David Packard died in 1996. What Bill and Dave started, Carly and others have done a great job killing. I give them at the outside 10 more years, but something in my head says they will be dead in less than 5. HP joins Sun.
Hopefully some of those 500 people will go working on an open-source mobile OS. That's sort of missing right now.
Also when you work on open-sour
I expect them to start hiring consultants tomorrow. I think HP figures that they can't compete against Android and iOS, even if WebOS is better technology there's no way they can build up the developer interest to make a competitive ecosystem of tools and apps. Essentially WebOS is OS/2. It's sad to see so many good people be forced out. WebOS was a great accomplishment.
Cringely saw this one coming a long time away... ok, maybe 7 months isn't so long:
http://www.cringely.com/2011/02/why-leo-apotheker-will-be-fired-from-hewlett-packard/
is the board.
Granted, this would probably leave only a handful of posts.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Does HP really want to give up that long-term cash flow to go chase its dreams?
In a word, yes. In three words, oh hell yes.
PC hardware is a commodity market and it's a mess. The upside that anyone can build a PC these days is a double edged sword, because just about anyone can build a PC these days, and the ones that do it the cheapest are the ones who win out. Margins are razor thin. High end desktops are a rare purchase. Mid-range desktops are only sold mostly to businesses when they don't need a laptop. Laptops are losing out to iPads and Macbooks now, which are solid alternatives at comparable prices, AND have better quality on average. HP is not making gobs and gobs of profit on hardware, only Apple, Samsung and HTC seem to be able to do that at the moment. Sure they might bring in $100 million in revenue but it cost like $99 million to make that. The numbers are exaggerated of course but the point is that HP sees that their hardware business is not making as much profit as you think, and it's the profit that's important.
Look, IBM created the PC and it was their cash cow for years. They then established a business consulting branch to encourage people to buy their machines. Then Compaq came along and ate their lunch, and suddenly their cash cow went away. One day, someone realized "holy shit! Our consultants make more money than our hardware does. All we do is contract out the manufacturing work to some other bozo anyway, let's sell hardware and make consulting our new cash cow, and simply tell them to buy whatever hardware we feel like."
What's funny is when IBM did this, similar things happened economically then that are happening now. 2001, the dotcom bubble bursts, 3 years later IBM sells it's hardware to work business to business. 2008, housing market crashes and 3 years later, HP gets out of hardware. In both situations, the average household consumer is hit hard and hurting, median middle class wages are practically stagnant and not keeping up with inflation, but corporate profits continue to rise in both instances.
Follow the money, the money is in businesses paying businesses for business consulting to run their business more. Huge international companies selling to average consumers is folly compared to selling to business these days especially when all the money is in corporations and rich people's pockets (that's not some political slogan, that's just the truth). Sure HP could keep it's hardware, it's probably still profitable over all, but why work so hard at making a little money when you could work half as hard and still make a killing in business consulting?
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
And if they become unemployed, well, they're SOL because according to today's job market, being unemployed means you're no good. Nobody cares why you're unemployed.
So, yeah, those guys better be hunting for another job - FAST.
Phht, I guarantee there's some hiring manager out there hiring them all as they leave the door. HP's department might have gone bust, but I'm sure there was some real talent in it's labor pool - and someone's going to know that. It's all about networking to find good labor.
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
It seems to me like there's some heavily orchestrated "race to the bottom" between RIM and HP. The amount of stunningly stupid business decisions that have come out as of late from both companies just seems impossibly massive.
HP is "up for sale", looking for a buyer.
They are hoping to be bought by Lenovo, but the Chinese responded "Who the hell needs a top-heavy organization that doesn't make anything?"
Meanwhile HP is looking for a new CEO, and the board are considering the former head of SCO, Darl McBride...
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Is it just me or does HP look like a fish laying on the dirt, flailing around gulping for non-existant water?
In the first place -- what was this WebOS thing that HP paid 1.2 bln $ for?
Do I miss something when I say that it is just a thin JavaScript layer on top of Linux, possibly not more complicated than an average JavaScript framework?
Posting anonymously because I am employed at HP.
If HP didn't offer these people plenty of opportunity to find other positions, then HP is not living up to its own policy of encouraging people to make careers for themselves, as given in the new hire training I am piled up with doing.
Maybe we should encourage the use of Seppuku for CEOs who fail to do what they were hired to do and, instead, do seriously stupid things. That would probably save California from at least one politician, too.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
Layoff-able employees.
This sig is not paradoxical or ironic.
Sure, you can make the figures look good in the short term by slashing R&D and firing everybody, but in the longer run you have no new products coming down the line.
Bye bye HP. In ten years time you'll be a niche printer ink seller.
That's because it wasn't HP who initiated the fire sale.
Best buy was sitting on a bunch of product nobody wanted, and HP was refusing to take them back. Best Buy said "OK, fine, we're liquidating" ... everybody suddenly wanted one, because at $99, why not?
A week or so earlier HP employees had been offered to buy them for $50 off retail ($300 or so) ... once Best Buy started selling at discounted prices, HP extended the same offer to employees.
Nobody at HP knew that was going to happen -- all of a sudden they were being sold on the market at those prices. This happened completely outside of their control.
Posting as AC since I know a bunch of HP employees.
No, the same Friday night Best Buy Canada started liquidating Touchpads, HP Shopping also lowered the price to $99. That same night HP announced the Firesale and the way they would handle it with their partners. On Saturday night Best Buy finally decided to liquidate Touchpads, and sold out their store stock on Sunday.
An example. Around 25 years ago, where I live, a farmer built a golf course on his land.
He made quite a lot of money, quite fast.
A few other farmers thought golf clubs were a good idea, and persuaded people to invest in them
For some reason, they didn't make much money. But other farmers saw the golf clubs and still thought it looked like easy money.
They built golf clubs.
Pretty soon some of the golf clubs were closing, and the early profitable ones didn't make much money any more.
I wonder why? Oh, it turns out that there is only a certain amount of demand for golf. When everyone can afford to play it, it has no social status any more.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
I think it's more likely that Apotheker is just incompetent as a CEO, and he made mistakes.
His incentives are at least somewhat aligned with those of the company. He is paid primarily in options. If HP makes a big profit then his options are worth a lot, he makes tons of money, he is seen as a successful CEO, he continues on in his powerful role, etc.
How does it help his vanity, or power, or personal aggrandisement, to make these silly decisions and then be fired from HP for failing to increase its profits?
Apple HQ = Cupertino
HP HQ = Palo Alto
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Maybe instead of sitting around in their underwear, eating cheetos, and waiting for someone to hire them, they should take some initiative and start their own business.
This is a clueless post.
It makes perfect sense.
Let's say you were given a year to kill Hewlett-Packard.
Let's play a game (but not global thermonuclear war if Apotheker might get involved). Try to guess what HP's next mega-blunder will be:
Any other suggestions for batshit-crazy corporate directions to inspire Apotheker's next folly? Merely awarding grotesque bonuses and share options to the most destructive "leaders" does not count as stupid enough.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
I'm sorry, but your friend is an idiot. Everyone knows when they're working on a failed product/project. It doesn't always mean the project/you are going to get canned, but it shouldn't come as a surprise when it does.
Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
In the first place -- what was this WebOS thing that HP paid 1.2 bln $ for?
Do I miss something when I say that it is just a thin JavaScript layer on top of Linux, possibly not more complicated than an average JavaScript framework?
A quick google (something one would expect the average techie would do to validate or refute his/her preconceptions) would show you that WebOS is not just a thin JavaScript layer on top of Linux... just sayin'
> How could he have seriously expected the WebOS tablet thing to be successful.
It is a gamble. If it is a success, he gets all the glory and a huge bonus. If it fails, he gets a golden parachute. There is no way to lose for him, no risk, and he does not bet his own money.
It was a poorly run gamble. Sometimes, companies must run things at a cost to establish a presence in the market. Had HP sold the TouchPad at half the price (I know, there would be no profit in it), I'm sure the thing would have taken off. I'm biased of course, I just bought a Vizio Tablet for less than $300. Yes, I don't have 3/4G or even any type of coverage other that what I can get from a wifi spot, BUT, I saved another $300, and as it is, the Vizio Tablet fits my need. This is a compromise a lot of people would be willing to make.
Pretty much $200 to $300 is a margin many people think twice before crossing. It's almost no different from the *sweet spot* one needs to find when renting a property. Rent it too high, no one calls, but just drop $10/$20 bucks off the monthly rent, and you get your tenant.
Obviously I'm talking out of my ass, but from what I've seen (and my own biases), I do believe a $200-something TouchPad would have set the shelves on fire.
And that would have had the potential to create a presence, a following, a market. Other models, maybe of a cheaper make, or *upgraded* with *services* to recover the cost could have followed.
That they overpriced the TouchPad was a major mistake. To have killed it before even giving it a chance to take off, that's something that makes me question the business acumen of not just Apotheker but of the entire HP board.
Sounds like to me, the one's who need to be laid off are the ones who keep picking the bad CEOs...
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
I didn't even know what webos was until I scored a $100 touchpad, but after using it for a bit I'd have to say its probably one of the best mobile operating systems in existence, head and shoulders above android in terms of ease of use and stability. I'm wondering how someone could take a product this good (webos, not the touchpad) and fail to sell it. They should have fired their marketing people before the touchpad people. //the more you know
I was given a job offer and a plane ticket for two weeks later to start. My (newlywed) wife checked on the ticket a week later and found it was cancelled. I called the man who hired me and he said they were just bought out and all hiring was stopped. (Frankly, he sounded like he was afraid for his job and I was just an annoyance.)
So, nobody is interested in buying this division? Perhaps this could have been another IBM/Lenovo, where some other outfit picks up the h/w, O/S and support functions and tries to make a go of it.
If such a buyer surfaces, just watch the HP shareholders sue the pants off the company for scrapping a viable asset.
Have gnu, will travel.
1.Do something stupid, like what they just did, watch the stocks go down.. Buy.
2. Spread the rumors of firing CEO, watch the stocks go up. Sell.
3. Profits!
Let's be clear here. The headline could have been shortened to "Looks like it might be the beginning of the end (...) at HP."
They got nuthin'. Since they spun off Agilent, they've been sliding towards the cliff, and hiring Carly was the precise moment at which they went over.
I don't think there's a single thing that HP can do to recover at this point. Maybe they'll keep going as a printer division of another company when they're eventually bought out, but I'm not even sure that's going to be worthwhile for anyone to grab.
HP may be one of the last old-world tech companies to die, but they _will_ die, and I'd guess in about 3.5 years. (give or take - I'm not a market predictor)
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
It's more likely the Board of Directors are incompetent. Have you seen their choices in CEOs and the rate at which they hire and fire them(and manner in which they do)? And with a consistently incompetent board, it's the fault of the director balloting system and "good ol' boys" club for US executives and boards.
Learn to love Alaska
Get a written job offer, and sue them for failure to perform if they don't actually hire you. Should be good for a big chunk of cash, and lawsuits are at the front of the line if they go bankrupt.
Learn to love Alaska
That's worth a lawsuit. Though most people don't like to sue, you'd certainly win at least the cost of the ticket, and likely a year of the promised salary.
Learn to love Alaska
Absolutely. This board needs exposure. They appear to be the greatest weapon the US has; if we dropped the board on Afghanistan, they would wipe out the entire country in one quarter. This board has done nothing but make stupid, complacent decisions that have steadily destroyed what was once a great company. Come to think of it, this is just like Congress and the US.
Authority without responsibility results in abuse of power.
Learn to love Alaska
If it's not a thin-layer above the core OS (Linux) how is that possible that it's been hacked to run on Android?
I watched a longish video discussing how webOS was developed and, well, I found it disappointing. Compare the man-months that went to webOS development to the 1.2$ bln HP paid. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
You mean the one that was previously 3Com hq off the 237? Speaking of which, which of the following will remain a part of HP? Will Palm? Will 3Com?
I just wish HP kept the entire team and looked for a buyer, such as HTC, Acer, or even spun it off back into Palm.
Then fire those people, rarely does anyone in upper and middle management have any real worth to the company.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The board basically has a really bad track record of hiring the worst CEOs they can get. I wonder if someone in there has shorted stock options.
Apotheker was known to be a totally incompetent tech company CEO after having gotten the boot at SAP after 8 months for total ignorance and incompetence. The one who gave him the boot was the company founder himself, who did not want to look at the misery anymore. He ousted him before the damage was permanent. Sure Apothekers strategies at SAP would have increased revenue in the short term (Price hikes, offhoring development etc...) but in the long term it would have ruined the company, and Plattner could see it by the reactions of his most loyal customers and by the reactions of his employees.
Guess Apotheker is fired from HP a few weeks after the permanent damage was done. Thats what you get by hiring pure bean counters as CEOs of tech companies. Apotheker is the prime example of such a man.