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Hot Multi-OS Switching — Why Isn't It Everywhere?

First time accepted submitter recrudescence writes "Slashdot readers might remember the Touchbook announcement from Always Innovating stirring up a lot of excitement in the Slashdot community back in 2009 (almost a year before the iPad was announced and essentially killed this off, and way before the Asus Transformer, which is essentially the same idea). The company's new product seems to support Hot multi-OS switching, supposedly with a minimal performance penalty. What seems strange to me is, why haven't other developers jumped in on this already? Macs, for instance, made a huge campaign of their products' new ability to finally support Microsoft Windows, yet (disregarding emulation options) they're still limited to booting to a single working system at any time."

239 comments

  1. By hot by rossdee · · Score: 4, Funny

    Do you mean a pirated copy?

    1. Re:By hot by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Funny

      No. They mean sexy - like you'd see on the TV show "Operating Systems Gone Wild". Usually shot in an anonymous server room, the hardware gets a little over-clocked and the OS ends up showing everyone its interfaces and device drivers... Sure there's some sloppy coding and the occasional core dump - usually with systems that can't handle their inputs. Pretty crazy stuff.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    2. Re:By hot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's nothing funny in using concepts and words that only the organized crime uses. Like "pirating" or the lie that making a copy could be a crime.

      Sorry, but this is like in 1938 publishing an article saying:
      "By inferior
      Do you mean someone who's not from the Aryan master race?"

      Which makes you... you know what.

    3. Re:By hot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clever retort, I rather enjoyed it,we have the same sense of humor.

    4. Re:By hot by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      the lie that making a copy could be a crime.

      So if a spy copies (say) a country's nuclear weapons launch codes or list of overseas secret agents, there would be no crime?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    5. Re:By hot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > and the occasional core dump

      Ummm, I don't want to see it take a core dump. That's only sexy to you if you're the kind of geek into scatistics.

    6. Re:By hot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the lie that making a copy could be a crime.

      So if a spy copies (say) a country's nuclear weapons launch codes or list of overseas secret agents, there would be no crime?

      Not in the country they are working for.... :)

  2. Virtualization by Florian+Weimer · · Score: 3, Informative

    People have been doing this for ages, it's called virtualization. There are even modes which seamlessly integrate application windows running under different operating systems, and to share folders. So this allegedly new technology appears to be a step backwards.

    1. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, exactly - they are talking about what some call a "bare metal hypervisor" which normally means some very small minimalist operating system that serves just to get virtualization up and running.

    2. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, exactly - they are talking about what some call a "bare metal hypervisor" which normally means some very small minimalist operating system that serves just to get virtualization up and running.

      Is it really THAT HARD to just pick an OS that meets your needs? Windows or Unix/Linux or OSX they are all very capable. If you are smart enough to avoid vendorlock you have lots and lots of options with any one of them. Is that what really drives the need for this kind of thing, people who fall for vendorlock and must keep an OS around when they really want to use a different one? That's a problem of being a savvy consumer. It is not a technical problem.

    3. Re:Virtualization by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      But - why pick an OS? I generally boot my computer to a Ubuntu host, then I fire up a Windows VM, a BackTrack VM, a (ahem, cough) Leapord VM, and if I need more, they are available. Why do I want to PICK one, when I can run them all, at the same time?

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    4. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Do us all a favor and shut the fuck up, right now.

    5. Re:Virtualization by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

      This, sort of. Any OS will do 99% of whatever 99% of people want to do 99% of the time. There is very little reason to hot switch in an operating system. Its a lot simpler to just find an app that does what you want on the OS you're running full time.

    6. Re:Virtualization by SomePgmr · · Score: 1

      Is it really THAT HARD to just pick an OS that meets your needs?

      Unfortunately, yeah. Windows doesn't suit my personal needs, where Linux doesn't remotely meet my work needs. I do both from the same machine, and I don't get to decide to change everything at work over to Linux just because I like it better.

      An efficient bare metal hypervisor for my laptop would be slick... and I've never really thought about trying xen or esxi for that... not sure how it'd work with the laptops limited resources. I think only the nicer versions allow for hot cpu and memory allocation, which would kinda be a requirement for mid-use switching.

      As it is I just dual-boot... though I have, on occasion, just used guest Windows vm's inside linux.

    7. Re:Virtualization by eviljolly · · Score: 2

      Except when it comes to gaming. That's one of the only places you can't find apps for one OS to replace another.

      It's also the main reason I run Windows. Otherwise, Ubuntu and an Office clone would do anything I need.

    8. Re:Virtualization by BasilBrush · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That's obviously an issue for people who run Linux as their primary OS. It's obviously not an issue for people that run Windows as their primary OS.

    9. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But - why pick a single cock? You generally butt-fuck a twink, then you get sucked off by a lemon-party, then you ass-to-mouth a bear, and if you need more cock, the bathroom at the truck stop is available. Why do you want to PICK one, when you can have sex with them all, at the same time?

    10. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess there is 1% reason for everyone to use hot switching. Depends upon how important that 1% is.

    11. Re:Virtualization by ToiletBomber · · Score: 2

      There is no reason for me to ever use Mac OS or a Linux based OS since neither can do as much as Windows can.

      Translation: "I don't know how to use a Linux based OS to do all thing things that Windows can." Sure, a lot of things only run on Windows, but there are a lot of open-source alternatives for Linux too... The only reason I'm not using Linux at all right now is because Linux doesn't play SC2 without WINE (an endeavor which I am not ready, or can be arsed to undertake), my school is part of the MSDNAA, and to be perfectly honest, I'm lazy.

    12. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Personally, I just run Windows. It does everything that I want and it's stable. There is no reason for me to ever use Mac OS or a Linux based OS since neither can do as much as Windows can.

      I just drive a minivan because it does everything I want and it's stable. There is no reason for me to ever drive a sedan or a pickup since neither can do as much as a minivan can.

      Idiot.

    13. Re:Virtualization by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Why do I want to PICK one, when I can run them all, at the same time?

      Because the host os requires memory as does each guest. For what you are talking about above, you need a bare minimum of 8GB and it wouldn't run that well. Its rare that you need all them open at the same time.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    14. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same issue applies the other way around to people who want a sane implementation of the *nix utilities and a nice shell.
      Or people who want a sane window manager, sane package manager, etc. etc. etc.

      So yeah, I can definitely see why someone would need both.
      Virtual machines do work for most cases, but they don't offer good hardware graphics acceleration yet AFAIK and sharing folders will be a bitch.

    15. Re:Virtualization by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Yeah, windows is a joy to do unix development on.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    16. Re:Virtualization by cob666 · · Score: 1

      Until just a few months ago I could do everything I needed on my computer running Windows. As I'm a Windows developer that was OK. But I recently had to expand into iOS development for a couple of clients and it's just brutal trying to get a Mac OS VM to run under Windows so I'm now using a Macbook Pro with Windows running under Parallels for all the Windows apps that aren't available or don't have Mac OS alternatives (such as my genealogy software and of course Visual Studio).

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law - Aleister Crowley
    17. Re:Virtualization by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Yes, but there are other issues with that. For instance there are Linux or Mac only applications that one might want to use. From time to time, I'll be searching for an application only to find that the only good one works for Linux or OSX even though it's a significant headache to boot into Linux for just that step in what's otherwise a Windows only chain of events. Or worse with OSX where I can't use it at all because I didn't overpay for Apple hardware.

    18. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "But...but...but Windows has a POSIX layer! For all practical purposes, it IS Unix!!"

    19. Re:Virtualization by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      The sharing folders is no problem whatsoever. I tell VirtualBox to make one or more folders on the host machine available to whichever VM's that I want them to be available to. Those shared folders are automagically mounted on the guest machine, no problems, ever.

      As for the graphics - acceleration is improving. Until you start serious gaming, you really can't tell the difference. Or, I can't anyway.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    20. Re:Virtualization by ksd1337 · · Score: 1

      Why not have both OSes simultaneously running at the native level, and use a software or hardware controller to tell each OS what to do with the video output?

    21. Re:Virtualization by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Ahhh - a serious objection, less easily dismissed than some of the whining above!

      And, my answer is, yes, I have 8 gig of memory installed to both of my dual core Opteron machines, as well as my Atholon 5300+ dual core. I'm using rather old architecture, and the boards don't support more memory - or, I would have 16 gig installed.

      As for how well they run - I've had no real issues. I can run Ubuntu as the host, and Windows 7 as the guest, then add in another Linux OS as another guest. I just don't notice any issues, unless I try to play some graphics intensive game on Windows. Face it - at this point in time, a serious gamer is NOT going to play from a virtual machine. Anyone else? They simply aren't going to suffer any performance hits!

      I really need to point out that way-back-when Virtual Box was first released, you really did take serious performance hits when running a VM. At that time, I only had 4 gig of memory on any of my machines, all were single cores, and the graphics cards were all AGP. At that point in time, the virtualization software was marginal. Since then, hardware has improved dramatically, and the virtualization software has improved just as dramatically. Not to mention, the OS's themselves are mostly virtualization-aware. All of the Linux distros seem to know when they are installed inside a virtual machine, and some automatically install the required drivers.

      In short, while the issues haven't gone away yet - they are disappearing! Give it another 3 to 5 years, and I'll bet that there is NO performance penalty!

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    22. Re:Virtualization by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      And with ram costing about $5/GB, that's not a huge issue anymore.

    23. Re:Virtualization by ScottyLad · · Score: 1

      Yes, exactly - they are talking about what some call a "bare metal hypervisor" which normally means some very small minimalist operating system that serves just to get virtualization up and running.

      Is it really THAT HARD to just pick an OS that meets your needs? Windows or Unix/Linux or OSX they are all very capable.

      Fullheartedly agree. I use a few different OS in the course of my work, but the vast majority is done on my Mac. I sometimes run Windows applications (eg Visio) via Parallels on OS X and it all works perfectly well.

      As long as everything works in a way that's convenient for me, I don't feel the need to search for technical problems I don't have in order to implement technical solutions I don't need.

      --
      Philosopher (n) - a wise person who is calm and rational; someone who lives a life of reason with equanimity
    24. Re:Virtualization by hot+soldering+iron · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Some of us don't have the luxury of using only what we want. I get paid for helping my clients with their problems (normally Windows), not playing on my own system. sometimes I have to fire up Windows 7, or XP, or Server 2008 R2, or Fedora 14, while I enjoy working with Ubuntu or testing an "enthusiast" OS. Some on-line services STILL only work with Windows.

      An OS is just a platform for apps. By itself, it doesn't do a whole lot. The apps are what's important. If I HAVE to run MS Office, then I have to run Windows. If I have to work on Oracle in Linux, then I need Red Hat.

      I'm planning on putting either a bare-metal hypervisor, or thin Linux server, on my next laptop just so I can "Hot Multi-OS switch" according to my needs of the moment.

      --
      When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
    25. Re:Virtualization by smpoole7 · · Score: 1

      > Personally, I just run Windows.

      And that's fine; that's your choice. But there are plenty of us who prefer to run Linux because it's lighter and faster (for one thing, you don't need all of the stupid antivirus/antimalware stuff constantly consuming CPU cycles). There are some of us who have no choice -- we use 'nix at work and need a 'nix flavor installed at home.

      But I'll admit that there are times when I need or want Windows -- doing my taxes, for one thing. So, I have Windows XP installed in a VirtualBox under OpenSUSE, and I can start it, do my taxes (or whatever), then exit.

      Besides, there is the INTENSE pleasure of seeing Windows in a small, well-behaved window on my desktop. That's how it SHOULD be. (Evil cackle ...)

      Also besides, you ought to run a really secure OS like Linux, then virtualize Windows, anyway. Take a snapshot of a known good config, and then if (when) you get a virus or some malware, simply delete the current VM and go back to the snapshot. Quick, simple, a beautiful thing. Like doing regular backups, only even mo' betta. :)

      --
      Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.
    26. Re:Virtualization by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hell why not have two and pick the right tool for the job? I got myself one of the new EEE Brazos netbooks (highly recommend BTW, great performance and holds 8Gb of RAM) and one of the things that sold me on it is ExpressGate. With ExpressGate if all I want to do is surf, or chat, or listen to the tunes off my HDD I just push the EG button instead of the on button and in under 6 seconds I have a ChromeOS style net OS that adds about two hours on the battery, depending on what I'm doing.

      On the other hand, if I want to fire up Audacity to do some editing? Or Word to work on a doc, or even fire up one of the games I picked up off of GOG? Hit the on button instead and I have Win 7 HP X64 waiting to do whatever I want. And the Brazos chip is a hell of a lot more like a CULV than an Atom, it is really snappy.

      So why not have both? Hell you can fire up EG from within Win 7 if you want some "Yo dawg" OS in a OS style action. But it isn't like there aren't plenty of choices out there so in this case you can have your cake and eat it too.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    27. Re:Virtualization by smpoole7 · · Score: 1

      The gaming thing has never been an issue for me because I don't like the big, world-eating things that the kids are playing now. I'm more of an old Commander Keen or Duke Nukem I/II guy, and DosBOX is a beauty-pageant-winner level beautiful thing for people like me.

      If I ever did decide to get into the awesome new games, I'd probably just buy something like a Wii. Why tie up CPU cycles on that?

      But that's just personal preference. The only thing I miss under Linux is really, truly good audio editing and MIDI support. The available FOSS selections (Ardour, Rosegarden, et. al.) all leave something to be desired. But also just MY opinion.

      --
      Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.
    28. Re:Virtualization by smpoole7 · · Score: 1

      I agree. Anyone who tried an older version of VirtualBox and wasn't satisfied with it should definitely try a newer release. The latest versions of VirtualBox sing like a chorus of monkeys.

      (I meant that in a GOOD way. Call it, "well-trained monkeys with great voices.") :)

      --
      Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.
    29. Re:Virtualization by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      All of the different "Operating Systems" they were able to run were different blends of Linux, running the 2.6.32 kernel. It seems like what they're doing is less virtualization, and more isolation. You get the bare install that just provides a basic X server and selection screen. You then have several other distributions that you basically just chroot into. You have multiple live userlands that you can swap into, but they are all running the same instance of the kernel. It's basically everything FreeBSD jails, Solaris Containers, and Linux VServers have been doing for a decade.

    30. Re:Virtualization by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Well, I did buy a Mac at what I consider to be a reasonable price. I've had cheaper computers and I've had more expensive computers - but I've never had a better computer.

      I can honestly say that it's been 4 years since there was any software I've wanted to run that was Windows only. It was the development system for the Propeller SoC. These days there is a Mac development system for it too. I've had no desire to run anything on Windows since. I know because I've kept an old PC hanging around just in case, and it's not been switched on in years.

      As for Linux, there's never been a single piece of software I've wanted to run that's Linux only.

      If I'd bought a PC, then, like you, I'd have been pissed off about Mac software I couldn't run. So that makes the Mac a very worthwhile purchase. :-)

    31. Re:Virtualization by John+Bresnahan · · Score: 1

      That's why I picked a Macintosh as my primary system. It is the best way to (legally and within licensing terms) get a single machine that runs anything.

      It does seem a shame that I have to pick the most locked-down system in order to get the least locked-down environment, but there it is.

      FYI, I don't play games on my system, so I don't need Windows as a native OS.

    32. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple specifically makes it difficult to virtualize because they are a hardware company.

      Even on VMWare you can only get OSX working (in a supported mode) if you run on Apple hardware.

      So the fault here really lies with Apple more than Linux, VMWare, Xen or Windows.

    33. Re:Virtualization by Arlet · · Score: 1

      Besides, there is the INTENSE pleasure of seeing Windows in a small, well-behaved window on my desktop. That's how it SHOULD be. (Evil cackle ...)

      I do the same thing, but I prefer the full screen mode. Using some virtual desktops, and a couple of hot keys, I can switch back and forth between Linux and XP with a press of a key, and for most things, the experience is seamless.

    34. Re:Virtualization by Tr3vin · · Score: 1

      people who want a sane window manager

      We still have those?

    35. Re:Virtualization by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 1

      What percentage of Windows users want to do Unix development? Tell you want, I'll ring around family and friends. I'm guessing the answer will be precisely ZERO, with a margin or error of precisely ZERO.

    36. Re:Virtualization by vux984 · · Score: 1

      So that makes the Mac a very worthwhile purchase. :-)

      I guess Microsoft should simply rewrite the EULA to make it against the license to run Windows on apple branded software; and any attempt to do so will be a violation of copyright a la the Psystar story.

      I mean Apple got away basically the equivalent, and this thread is full of smug posters who are claiming "I bought a mac because it runs everything else plus OSX too!"

      So Microsoft could pull the rug out. And then you'd have to choose. And faced with actually having to choose, most people would choose Microsoft.

      I can honestly say that it's been 4 years since there was any software I've wanted to run that was Windows only.

      Yay for you. Its been 10 minutes since I logged out of Steam on my Mac and booted up windows because the selection of Mac software is abysmal.

    37. Re:Virtualization by Knackered · · Score: 2

      But I'm not a consumer. I'm a software developer, I need to be able to develop, run, test and automate an application that runs on 64-bit Windows, 32-bit Windows, 64-bit Linux, 32-bit Linux, MacOS X, and various embedded ARM and PPC-based SOC systems. Sure, I have a network of machines for this, but managing many of the OS flavours under virtualisation saves time and money.

      --
      a.
    38. Re:Virtualization by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Your family or friends can use whatever OS is put in front of them for web surfing, checking email, and the occasional game - that's why Apple is making a killing with their tablets. But a significant number of people who work in IT, in software development, or work on anything that touches the web are dealing with unix servers. I don't doubt that you're sample would include zero, but it's absurd to call switching your OS "stupid", which is what I was responding to. Frankly, it's likely that only very smart people are going to even attempt it.

      I shouldn't have even replied, because in retrospect it was just flamebait.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    39. Re:Virtualization by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 1

      I work in software development. And I use windows, as do 99% of all of our customers. I'm replying to your counter-point about Windows being great for Unix development. Well, Windows is pretty crap for any non-Windows development. I really don't understand what your point is. But for the OP, it's obviously the case that dual boot options aren't available because 99.999% of people don't want it, need it, or even know what it is.

    40. Re:Virtualization by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I guess Microsoft should simply rewrite the EULA to make it against the license to run Windows on apple branded software;

      Yup, they could. But then they'd give up a big chunk of sales for no reason, since they don't even sell competitive hardware.

      and this thread is full of smug posters who are claiming "I bought a mac because it runs everything else plus OSX too!"

      Which is still a true statement.

      So Microsoft could pull the rug out. And then you'd have to choose. And faced with actually having to choose, most people would choose Microsoft.

      Yes, they probably would. I can think of lots of unlikely hypothetical situations.

      Yay for you. Its been 10 minutes since I logged out of Steam on my Mac and booted up windows because the selection of Mac software is abysmal.

      Yup, it sounds like he's doing work. Nothing can touch Windows for games.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    41. Re:Virtualization by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I work in software development. And I use windows, as do 99% of all of our customers.

      I never said all, or even most - I said "a significant number". It's great that you are in a situation where Windows does everything you need it to - not all of us are so lucky, that's all.

      But for the OP, it's obviously the case that dual boot options aren't available because 99.999% of people don't want it, need it, or even know what it is.

      Dual boot? We're talking about hot-swapping, not dual boot. I can see that being useful. Right now I run a linux VM so that I can run Sage and I run an X client on Windows so that I can work on a Solaris box. If I could hot-swap between Solaris, Windows, and Linux it might improve my work flow. Or it might not... I'd like to try it - it certainly doesn't seem "stupid".

      In the context of a tablet, if the HP Touchpad had Android installed alongside WebOS it might have not seemed so locked-in to a dead OS. Their marketing could have targeted real, everyday users: "With the HP Touchpad, you have the full power of industry-standard Android, PLUS the yadda yadda yadda of WebOS!" I'm not a marketer, but even Apple went this route.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    42. Re:Virtualization by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Virtualization only virtualizes the CPU and the RAM.
      The rest of the hardware is still emulated, which is why it's so slow.

    43. Re:Virtualization by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      seriously given the choice of agreeing to the terms and conditions in microsofts eula and running windows on a mac , those who want to will.

      psystar was a different case entirely Apple branded software licensed to run on apple hardware , windows licensed to run on any x86 hardware. Psystar only got hit because they were legally visible and a potential threat to apple revenues. individuals make hackintoshes everyday
      Windows is for any PC clone and apple pc's are pc clones even if they are not marketed as such

    44. Re:Virtualization by kcitren · · Score: 1

      It's not $5/GB when you've only got 2 DIMM slots, as most laptops have. Another big killer is disk access, unless you're using a nice SSD, the disk access has serious performance penalties. Of course, you can get laptops with 4 DIMM slots that also support 2 HDs.

    45. Re:Virtualization by kcitren · · Score: 1

      Why isn't there a good Visio clone for OS X!!!! Omnigraffle is a great program, but it's not Visio. It's the most common reason I have to start a Windows VM. Concept Draw Pro is nice as well, but has enough incompatibility problems that I can't use it when I need to exchange drawings.

    46. Re:Virtualization by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Yay for you. Its been 10 minutes since I logged out of Steam on my Mac and booted up windows because the selection of Mac software is abysmal.

      Examples of what's missing please. Other than the already mentioned category of games.

    47. Re:Virtualization by mcavic · · Score: 1

      Windows or Unix/Linux or OSX they are all very capable. If you are smart enough to avoid vendorlock you have lots and lots of options with any one of them.

      Avoiding vendorlock is not that easy in the corporate world. I would switch to Linux if it weren't for my:

      Trading platform (I'm not willing to change brokers, for good reasons)
      Enterprise Anti-virus control panel
      Call center client software
      PBX configuration application
      Norton Ghost (bitwise image backups are much better than rsync)
      Games

      Some of these I could do in a virtual machine. But putting it all together, it's too much of a headache, and it wouldn't gain me very much. And I don't own the call center or the PBX, so those aren't my fault.

    48. Re:Virtualization by mcavic · · Score: 1

      We still have those?

      Of course. Even Windows has a Window Manager. The question is whether or not you have a choice.

    49. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your translation is totally wrong. I don't want or need to use Linux or Mac OS or any other OS apart from Windows, because Windows does everything I need it to do, has the largest availability of software, hardware, hardware support (drivers) and games. I would only suffer with Linux if I was skint, or if in my naivete I was trying to make a futile and stupid anti-capitalist point.

      Let's see here... your point of you not needing anything other than Windows is valid to yourself but does not necessarily apply to everyone else at all. Given that:

      1. Largest availability of software: I find it significantly easier to find and use software on Linux these days (largely because so much of it is free and still good quality, but also just a good package manager is huge on this). Commercial software varies a bit as well, though I will admit that there are some important packages that really only come to the same caliber on Windows (which I don't really understand when discussing the several that run on Linux, Mac, and Windows).
      2. Largest availability of hardware and hardware support (drivers): No. Further interpretation of "availability of hardware and hardware support (drivers)" can be more complicated, but you don't do that.
      3. Games: Overall, I will give you that one, though there are a lot of games available on Linux as well (just not as many big named ones).

    50. Re:Virtualization by danish94 · · Score: 1

      He ment if we still have the "sane" part

    51. Re:Virtualization by mcavic · · Score: 2

      Oh, right. Well, different people have different ideas of sane. Actually, my favorite WM of all time was the SGI Irix workstations we had in our college computer lab around 1997. The combination of the soft colors, easy to read fonts, and the scratching sound the mouse made as I moved it across the desk without a mouse pad (mouse pads always got stolen) was very satisfying.

      Later, the lab people started punching a hole in the mouse pad running the cord through it. That just killed the whole experience.

    52. Re:Virtualization by danish94 · · Score: 1

      2*4GB SO-DIMMs cost 40$ on Amazon, that's $5/GB. Or am I missing something here?

    53. Re:Virtualization by danish94 · · Score: 1

      I was 3 years old at that time.

    54. Re:Virtualization by mcavic · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm an old fart. The idea of people born in the 90's having a driver's license seems like a freak of nature to me. :)

    55. Re:Virtualization by tombeard · · Score: 1

      I've got 8GB. I run a Debian host and usually have 3-4 VMs open, one is probably XP. I have never seen more then 50% ram utilization.

      --
      The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
    56. Re:Virtualization by Shinobi · · Score: 1

      I'd go so far as to say that Irix didn't just have the best WM, it had the best X implementation too.

      Another awesome feature was the scaling function for icons etc, very fast and easy to adapt it to your preferences.

    57. Re:Virtualization by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      I was wondering this as well. The poster seems to discount visualization all together.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    58. Re:Virtualization by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Oh, right. Well, different people have different ideas of sane. Actually, my favorite WM of all time was the SGI Irix workstations we had in our college computer lab around 1997. The combination of the soft colors, easy to read fonts, and the scratching sound the mouse made as I moved it across the desk without a mouse pad (mouse pads always got stolen) was very satisfying.

      Later, the lab people started punching a hole in the mouse pad running the cord through it. That just killed the whole experience.

      Heh. I've got a working SGI Octane workstation running IRIX and a matching SGI monitor sitting here three feet away. Fiber-optic audio I/O and a 3mS max buss latency means it's still useful for some things, even today.

      Now, the old Netscape browser...not so much.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    59. Re:Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is if you've got a proper setup. I do web development strictly on my Windows machine without any problems. I can test it under Windows with Apache, MySQL, Perl and PHP then move it over to a UNIX/Linux based server for deployment. If you're talking about developing native programs for UNIX type systems, then yeah, you're right but the opposite also applies.

    60. Re:Virtualization by imhennessy · · Score: 1

      I use it because:
      I am poor, and it allows me to legally use software without paying for it, and use old hardware without suffering.
      I enjoy the fact that people like you get so worked up about why I use software.
      It gives me a lot of control.
      It takes care of its self.
      I don't have to worry about using cpu cycles to keep my web browsing from hosing my machine.
      It's one of the few situations in life where I actually benefit from the investments of huge corporations.

      Not in any way important to you. But there it is.

      ivan

      --
      Like to brew? Want to talk about it? Brattlebrew: groups.yahoo.com/group/brattlebrew
    61. Re:Virtualization by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Don't get me wrong - it is very possible to do web dev on Windows... it's just not as nice. I mean, either way you will have configuration and deployment issues - but IMHO these are fewer when your development stack is already unix. I do have Windows at work, and while my web development is now limited to internal apps, I still prefer to set up a dev directory on the Solaris machine and edit those files on the Windows box via ftp/nfs as opposed to trying to get the whole thing to work under Windows. Since it's over the intranet, the latencies aren't too bad when moving files back and forth, but when the server was remote it could be painful - and it's not a great way to work for security reasons when outside the intranet.

      Native apps is indeed an obvious example - and yes, the opposite also applies. That is why multiple OS installs on a single machine can be useful and not "stupid". You could probably be an apache developer through cygwin, but oh, God, why? :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    62. Re:Virtualization by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Anyone is a candidate for OS switching. Some desktop hypervisors have a mode called coherence, which does exactly what the poster desires. Parallels, for one, VMware's versions do, too.

      The host becomes irrelevant, the OS becomes irrelevant. Even the storage, to an extent, is locationally irrelevant.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    63. Re:Virtualization by TheCouchPotatoFamine · · Score: 2

      that's a weird statement. The only reason you need a mac to "run anything" is to run software that requires... a mac. So how exactly does that make mac's good? (disclaimer: i love osx)

      --
      CS majors know the time/space tradeoff, but they never get taught the 3rd, crucial, tradeoff of the set: comprehension!
    64. Re:Virtualization by shmlco · · Score: 1

      2 x 8.0GB 1333MHz DDR3 SO-DIMM PC10600 204 Pin = $879

      Or $54 a gig.

      That's what happens when you need more RAM and you only have two slots...

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    65. Re:Virtualization by Florian+Weimer · · Score: 1

      That depends on what hardware you've got. Nowadays, there is PCI and USB pass-through, and video and 3D acceleration in guest systems.

    66. Re:Virtualization by ryanov · · Score: 1

      I use Ubuntu full time. The only thing I need Windows for at all is the stupid IE only websites that work makes us use for things. I also don't have to wipe my drive every 6 months because the registry has gone retarded again.

    67. Re:Virtualization by pmontra · · Score: 1

      I used to develop Ruby on Rails applications on a Windows XP box. I had a Linux VM (actually a colinux Windows process) with the database and the application server, because running RoR on Windows is so painful and furthermore I had to deploy on linux anyway. I used Windows for all the client applications (the browser, occasional use of graphic programs). I edited with emacs inside colinux. Then I realized that all the software I was using was open source (thunderbird, open office, media players, etc) and reformatted my pc to linux. I'm using a few Virtualbox Windows VMs to test with IE now but my workflow greatly improved by developing on the native platform I'm developing for. And no, I don't need Windows for games (that would have been a problem).

    68. Re:Virtualization by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      Ahem.

      Get a real computer.

    69. Re:Virtualization by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, got to agree with you on this one. Pretty sure other OSs have VM software, too. Have to say I'm tired of Parallels, though, they keep updating (with incompatabilities) their program faster than OS X and the emulation OSs, for a mere $40 a pop. I'm just going to Boot Camp. I can wait a minute to reboot.

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    70. Re:Virtualization by John+Bresnahan · · Score: 1

      I'm a developer, and I want a single machine that can run any software, regardless of OS.

      OS/X is the only OS that can't legitimately be run on non-Mac hardware (and until recently, couldn't even be run virtually on Mac hardware).

      I'm not interested in cobbling together a Hackintosh system (and hoping that Apple doesn't "break" it whenever they feel like it), so if I want to include a legitimate OS/X system, I have to have a Macintosh.

      Once I have a Mac, I can then legitimately run both Windows and Linux (and presumably *-BSD if I need that option) in VMs. Fortunately, that works well, so I have a single laptop that runs every OS I might want to use.

      If Apple allowed OS/X to run on generic hardware, I would have at least considered a different laptop (probably a ThinkPad), but fortunately I am very happy with my MacBook as a primary system.

    71. Re:Virtualization by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I also don't have to wipe my drive every 6 months because the registry has gone retarded again.

      That stopped being true at about Windows 98. You're either lying or doing something fundamentally stupid.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    72. Re:Virtualization by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I was 3 years old at that time.

      The thing is, everyone who is older than 17 was once 17 too. It's really not that unusual or interesting.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    73. Re:Virtualization by mystran · · Score: 1
      My thoughts exactly. At work (as a sysadmin) I'm running a Windows desktop with 2 screens. On the second screen (which isn't really essential, but still nice) I have a VirtualBox Ubuntu installation fullscreened 24/7. So I basically have two systems side-by-side except:
      • I have one mouse and one keyboard.
      • I can see what's going on in both OS at the same time
      • I only need to lock/unlock my console once
      • I can seamlessly copy-paste between them.
      • If I need to remote from home, I can just take normal RDP and the Ubuntu is available in a window too.

      Even useless eye-candy in compiz works fine (though it's a bit slowish with RDP over interwebs). Both systems run all the time (well, the Windows needs to be booted occasionally where as KSplice deals with the Ubuntu pretty well), and they work just fine. From work-flow point of view it's mostly like working with a single system.

      I also have a console switch so I can access a separate Mac (for OSX) from the same console. It works too, but it's such a pain to hop from one system to another that I usually try to avoid having to bother. What this "hot switching" sounds like is basically like using such a console switch. Doesn't sound so great when you're used to being able to just focus another window.

      --
      Software should be free as in speech, but if we also get some free beer, all the better.
    74. Re:Virtualization by shmlco · · Score: 1

      Ahem.

      I travel.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    75. Re:Virtualization by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Yup, it sounds like he's doing work. Nothing can touch Windows for games.

      Or vertically integrated Point of sale systems in a given industry... from iqMetrix for Cellular to VisualEyes for Opticians to Pro-Repair for Repair shops. Not to mention accounting software. CRM/Business Intelligence. Or shipping management.

        RFID tracking systems for warehouse managment. FleetTracking and Asset Tracking systems.

      Or Programming two way Radios. Updating firmware on Samsung cell phones. Battery analyzer software. (e.g. Cadex Battery Shop) Medical instrument softare (e.g. Medmont Studio medmont.com), Mobile Customer Experience (mce-sys.com), computer controlled lathes (dac-intl.com)...

      Nothing can touch Windows for industry specific applications.

      Pretty much anyone "doing work" needs windows. The occasional exception are linux/unix based systems that are usually sold as a complete embedded package.

      Mac OS X support is relatively rare to non-existent.

    76. Re:Virtualization by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I get it, Windows has a monopoly. Why are you acting like I was attacking Windows in some way? I even said you can't touch it for games. That doesn't mean everyone needs it. You keep listing applications that BasilBrush clearly doesn't need, since he said that he hasn't booted to Windows in 4 years.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    77. Re:Virtualization by jedwidz · · Score: 1

      Seconded. VirtualBox now supports branching snapshots, which for my mileage is a killer feature.

    78. Re:Virtualization by ryanov · · Score: 1

      No, it didn't. The machine I did that to most recently was Windows XP. Maybe the 6 months is an exaggeration, but not the needing to reinstall. The last machine I had started to take 5 mins to log into in the morning. Bear in mind that I almost never install software unless I'm certain I'm going to want to keep it because I know how much cruft can be left around by uninstalling. Now, this machine I'm talking about was toward the lower end of the system requirements, but it ran fine when it was first installed. Only changes were newer versions of Acrobat and shit like that. It got slow, on its own, without anything running.

    79. Re:Virtualization by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Why are you acting like I was attacking Windows in some way?

      Because by saying: "yup, sounds like he's doing work" implies OSX's only software weakness is games, and that the average "business" can use OSX just fine...

    80. Re:Virtualization by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Examples of what's missing please. Other than the already mentioned category of games.

      Really? You are seriously asking for examples of what's missing on a Mac?

      Vertically integrated Point of sale systems in a given industry... from iqMetrix for Cellular to VisualEyes for Opticians to Pro-Repair for Repair shops. Not to mention accounting software. CRM/Business Intelligence. Or shipping management. Then there is RFID tracking systems for warehouse managment. FleetTracking and Asset Tracking systems...

      Utility software for programming two way radios. Utility software to update firmware on Samsung cell phones.

      Then there is battery analyzer software. (e.g. Cadex Battery Shop) Medical instrument software (e.g. Medmont Studio medmont.com), Mobile Customer Experience (mce-sys.com), computer controlled lathes (dac-intl.com),

      Then there's CAD stuff... Catia, AutoDesk... fluid modelling software Flow-3D (flow3d.com)...

      Hell more of this stuff is available for linux than OSX.

      Even plug ins for Microsoft Office - sure Office itself is cross platform, but statistical-analysis packages, report writers, etc, require windows and the windows version.

    81. Re:Virtualization by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      You are reading too much into it. I was just pointing out that he was not playing games, so the fact that Windows is best for games is not relevant. The average business cannot use OSX exclusively - the Windows monopoly is too strong and Mac pisses off the IT guys as Apple mostly ignores enterprise.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    82. Re:Virtualization by mcavic · · Score: 1

      Actually, it is interesting for me because at my age, I have experience with two distinct generations of technology: 80s, and today's.

      I feel like some of the younger generation might be missing out on some historical perspective. For example, the joy of installing Microsoft Office from a set of floppy disks, when it's already been installed too many times.

      Or the idea that hard drives once had to be interleaved to slow them down so the computer could keep up with the data stream. :)

    83. Re:Virtualization by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I think my point is well made by just how niche you had to go to find software that isn't available on the Mac. At one time people would point out that there weren't any decent POS systems on Mac. Now there are lots, so you have to add another filter to make it yet more niche.

      In pretty much all the examples, businesses would buy dedicated machines to run the software. If the software needs a PC they'll buy a PC, if it needs a Mac they'll buy a Mac, if it needs a proprietary NCR cash register, they'll buy a proprietary NCR cash register.

      It's not software that someone who has a Mac as their personal computer is going to want to run and be disappointed because they can't find it.

      Availability of software is no longer a reason for people to choose a PC as a personal computer rather than a Mac, except in very rare cases of niche requirements... unless they're a gamer.

    84. Re:Virtualization by TheCouchPotatoFamine · · Score: 1

      psssst.. virtualbox is the thing you want to google.

      --
      CS majors know the time/space tradeoff, but they never get taught the 3rd, crucial, tradeoff of the set: comprehension!
  3. How is this different than a VM? by msobkow · · Score: 1

    I don't see any claims in their page that sounds any different than using VMs to run a bunch of operating systems at the same time, other than that they seem to have set it up with hotkeys to switch between full-screen VM displays. What am I missing? Or is this just another attempt to rebrand old technology as something new?

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:How is this different than a VM? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It sounds exactly like the ARM port of Xen that Samsung demoed at the XenSummit in 2007. Basically, the thing that made it different from normal virtualisation was the driver model that allowed each guest to have exclusive access to devices for a time. You could switch between multiple operating systems, but when each was active it would have direct access to the display, audio and input devices, but shared access to things like the network and storage.

      That said, they list four operating systems that run in this mode: Linux, Linux, Linux, and Linux. So, it could just be using whatever the Linux equivalent of a FreeBSD jail or a Solaris zone is. Or even just a chroot for each userland...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:How is this different than a VM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whatever the Linux equivalent of a FreeBSD jail or a Solaris zone is

      That would be a VE (virtual environment) from project OpenVZ, which has been in Debian stable and most other distributions for some years.

    3. Re:How is this different than a VM? by ttong · · Score: 1

      OpenVZ was never mainlined, but LXC (Linux Containers) is.

  4. decades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean like computers have been able to do since the 1960's?

  5. This isn't really hot-OS switching. by ScytheBlade1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    > All OS are running on the 2.6.32 Linux kernel, and got several optimizations to take benefits of the advanced instructions available in the chipset.
    >
    > Note that you will not be able to install Windows OS or Mac OS on the Touch Book or the Smart Book.

    Yes, you can do some cool things with linux. Including switching out the userspace pretty quickly. That's all that this looks like. The kernel isn't changing, from the looks of it.

    1. Re:This isn't really hot-OS switching. by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 1

      In that case, I already have that on my several-year-old N900! I have a nice Debian chroot integrated into the environment, with a full X desktop, and I can access it just like a native application(which, in most respects it is).

    2. Re:This isn't really hot-OS switching. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having had one of the first AI tablets manufactured I agree that is was not real hot-OS switching. Unless they improved stuff since then it was nothing more than a grub reboot between Ubuntu/Crome/Android2. I vaguely remember some company that actually had WinCE and Linux hot-OS switching supported on OMAP3 ARM processors where both OS's were really running at the same time and you could swap between the two of them without needing a reboot. I doubt they are still in business because frankly who cares. I don't want the overhead of two OS's running on a ARM designed for powersavings. I want applications that work in the OS I am using. For at least the mobile space nobody can run real Windows7 with full office so there is very little incentive to running multi-OS's at once.
      As for AI's fate, looks like they are still around but very uncompetitive. $499 for their new version that is crap compared to Dell's Tablet Duo. Hopefully they improved their manufacturing and software since their first rev was horrible. The battery glue fell off for me after a month, the touchscreen was very unresponsive so you couldn't really type on it, everything was really just a USB stick inside it so USB bandwidth issues existed and the Wifi stick was surrounded by metal from the touchscreen and PCB board so reception was horrible, and just a whole slew of hardware/software issue. The whole thing reeked of just a few 100k effort by just a few geeks, not a multi-million dollar product development effort typical of an Apple/Dell/HP tablet.

    3. Re:This isn't really hot-OS switching. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      And amazingly, somehow you are still a virgin.

    4. Re:This isn't really hot-OS switching. by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Can someone fill me in as to how this is better than virtualization? And how the iPad killed it off? Because Apple or Asus or whoever coming out with a single OS tablet has very little impact on the future development of this multi-OS system.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    5. Re:This isn't really hot-OS switching. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you can run "any OS you want, as long as it's Linux"? :)

    6. Re:This isn't really hot-OS switching. by ScytheBlade1 · · Score: 1

      It's almost entirely unrelated to virtualization. This is more like highlighting the fact that you can switch browsers by hitting alt+tab, only they built the alt+tab button into the hardware.

      It's more complex than that (because every one of those will have a different libc, and android doesn't use the same libc, never mind the rest of the libraries), but functionally that's what userspace switching is. The same kernel (OS) keeps running...

    7. Re:This isn't really hot-OS switching. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't believe that made me chuckle.

    8. Re:This isn't really hot-OS switching. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can do some cool things with linux. Including switching out the userspace pretty quickly. That's all that this looks like. The kernel isn't changing, from the looks of it.

      Yeah, Xen will be able to do this pretty soon, but the required features to make this worth doing (e.g. PCI hotplug) are just getting integrated now. Check back in a year - it wouldn't surprise me to see a slick GUI to switch over to Windows to play games or run a science instrument or whatever kids use it for these days.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    9. Re:This isn't really hot-OS switching. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell, say what you will about Motorola, but they have an Ubuntu 9.04 chroot built in to the default ROM for the Atrix 4G that works that way.

  6. VMs are more than good enough by ellbee · · Score: 1

    There may be reasons to run Windows or Linux natively on a Mac, but for me VMware Fusion does the job. Much better together than apart.

    --

    You can't fight in here - this is the war room!

    1. Re:VMs are more than good enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VMs may do the job, but they take so much RAM! Their resource hogs... Say whatever you want, but having a native switch option is ten-times better than a VM. Hands-down.

  7. Re:repressed religious people by ttong · · Score: 1

    I hereby pledge that we absolutely must have multi-OS action rule 34 on the intertubes.

  8. More Cores, More Ram, Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can see this actually happening in the near future, I mean the REAL hot-swapping OS. If we have like 8 cores and 4gb Ram on a tablet it would be pretty easy in my opinion to run 2 OS at the same time with a button to just switch between them on the fly.

    1. Re:More Cores, More Ram, Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sorta like the LPAR setup that IBM has been using for decades.

    2. Re:More Cores, More Ram, Maybe by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      8 cores, and 4 gb of ram? Why are you being extravagant with the cores, and skimping on the ram? FFS, man, haven't you learned yet that memory is more vital than a hot core?

      I'll settle for one or two cores, if I can have 16 gig of ram! And, I'll run more VM's simultaneously than you can!

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  9. Limited value by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For those outside of the geek realm, the ability to easily and quickly switch OS's is probably more of a liability (learning two different environments) than a feature. For some people it would be great, but for most users, not so much.

  10. Rob Malda would never let this happen by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    How did this article make it to the front page? Better bring back Rob Malda or it's curtains for slashdot.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Rob Malda would never let this happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or it's curtains for slashdot.

      The fat lady is clearing her throat and she started doing so before Rob Malda left. Slashdot is a shell of its former glory. The other day I actually did a signal (post which contributed to discussion) to noise calculation on a random article. Initial posts were 2% and it then fell to 1%. If that single article is representative, that means for every 99 posts, there is only one post worth reading. With so many stories running around 200-400 posts, that means we might see technical discussions all of 2-4 posts, which may not even be in the same thread. Which in turn means, maybe 2-4 posts without any discussion.

      The reality is, most slashdotters these days are useless, ignorant, egotistical, with a seemingly average or well below average IQ; who will gladly argue their obvious ineptitude is somehow the second coming - even about things which are extremely obvious they have no fucking clue that its impossible they, themselves don't know they have no fucking clue. But they'll ignorantly argue just the same to prove how fucking stupid they are. This is the average slashdotter today. The sad thing is, many who don't know any better then take the vomit which was stated by the idiot to heart. Slashdot today is nothing like what it was during its peak so many years ago.

      Honestly, slashdot is dead. It died several years. At this point, its a zombie who doesn't know its dead yet. Malda left BECAUSE slashdot is dead.

  11. Kubuntu does just about everything I need it to do by pecosdave · · Score: 1

    I use it on my Desktop, my Notebook, and my Netbook.

    Simply having Chrome installed does nearly everything I would want out of a Chromebook, granted my netbook requires a little more overhead by loading up the full version of KDE, but really, the resume from lid being shut on my Acer Aspire One is really awesome and competes with anything a Chromebook can do. (Seriously, boot it up in the morning and it's good for days without charging with the lid shut, and an impressive number of hours lid open)

    I have played with emulators for just about everything, even Android. I fail to see a purpose, my full Linux desktop does everything I need, I even run the netbook specific desktop on my net book and the full KDE desktop on my other machines, it's wonderful (and I am drooling on the concept of the the eee Transformer running it). Virtualization on the server level, or for doing client support from a desktop is a whole different thing all together of course.

    I looked at Chromebooks, basically Acer is selling what more or less amounts to the same system I already have in my Aspire One only with double the RAM out of the box (I bought a 2GB stick with my Aspire One the day I bought it, so moot point to me) and a significantly smaller SSD instead of a hard drive for $200 extra.

    I can install Angry Birds for offline use on my normal Chrome browser, I have both Google Docs and Libre Office for work online and off, and my EVO supplies bandwidth no matter where I am (well almost, Sprint has some crappy coverage areas). By all means continue developing this stuff, but really, I think people have solutions looking for a problem sometimes.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  12. Microsoft's tight grasp on OEMs again, I suppose by Mojo66 · · Score: 1

    The reason why we haven't seen this on Windows PCs so far are probably the tight restrictions that Microsoft puts on OEMs in order to be applicable for a rebate, which probably exclude any other OS on the same machine. In other words, if the big PC hardware manufacturers like Dell, HP etc. would put Windows and Linux on the same PC, they'd have to pay the retail price for Windows rather than the monopoly-supported OEM price, which obviously would cut deep into their margins.

  13. There's a reason why they call it a "virtual" mach by scottbomb · · Score: 1

    When I'm running an instance of VM, the other OS is still ultimately in charge. The VM I'm emulating cannot directly access the hardware without getting permission from the host OS. Proof: Windows XP will allow me to play Doom 95 with a joystick (Windows 7, for some reason, won't allow the game to have direct access to the joystick so it doesn't work). I installed VMWare and put an instance of Windows XP on it. Did I get my joystick back? No, because Windows 7 is still in charge.

  14. MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by perpenso · · Score: 1, Informative

    Macs, for instance, made a huge campaign of their products' new ability to finally support Microsoft Windows

    New? Finally? Apple's Boot Camp utility has been installing MS Windows and Apple supplied drivers on Mac hardware since 2006.

    1. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      Manual mod +1 pedantic.

      I don't think the summary writer was referring to their new ability to run Windows in 2011. Instead, I believe the reference was to the fact that, at the time of release, Mac computers could "finally" support Windows, the "finally" implicitly describing the sentiment in 2006 when Boot Camp was first released.

    2. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by shitzu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Macs, for instance, made a huge campaign of their products' new ability to finally support Microsoft Windows

      New? Finally? Apple's Boot Camp utility has been installing MS Windows and Apple supplied drivers on Mac hardware since 2006.

      made
      In the past tense.

    3. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by NameIsDavid · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the first Intel Macs weren't released until January 2006. There was barely any time between the hardware being Windows compatible and Apple not only supporting it but actually supplying the enabling drivers. So, the "finally" sentiment is very misplaced, as it implies a long period of unfulfilled demand as someone dragged their feet.

    4. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um... virtualpc before that. You know, the product made by Microsoft to allow PPC macs to boot windows.

      "Virtual PC was originally developed for the Macintosh and released by Connectix in June 1997."

    5. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by hedwards · · Score: 1

      No, it doesn't. It implies a long period of time during which Mac users couldn't use those programs without owning a separate machine. And as for your assertion that they couldn't run the OS until January 2006, that's not true at all. For many years MS released a version of their OS which would run on Power Macs. Granted it couldn't be used in this fashion, but the option was there for years.

    6. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Oh shut up smelly.

    7. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For many years MS released a version of their OS which would run on Power Macs. Granted it couldn't be used in this fashion, but the option was there for years.

      Windows NT 4 had a PowerPC build, but it wouldn't run on any Power Mac.

    8. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by Andreas+Mayer · · Score: 1

      For many years MS released a version of their OS which would run on Power Macs.

      Um. No.
      I guess you are talking about Virtual PC. That was a PC emulator for Power PC created by Connectix (Wikipedia says June 1997).
      Microsoft bought it from Connectix in 2003. And they practically ended Mac support by not porting it to Intel based Macs.

    9. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by Andreas+Mayer · · Score: 1

      um... virtualpc before that. You know, the product made by Microsoft to allow PPC macs to boot windows.

      "Virtual PC was originally developed for the Macintosh and released by Connectix in June 1997."

      Virtual PC for Power PC was not made by Microsoft. You even quoted the relevant passage.

    10. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by shitzu · · Score: 1

      Macs, for instance, made a huge campaign of their products' new ability to finally support Microsoft Windows

      New? Finally? Apple's Boot Camp utility has been installing MS Windows and Apple supplied drivers on Mac hardware since 2006.

      made
      In the past tense.

      Past tense as in when you made your post a few minutes ago? "Made" can be vague with respect to time, when used with "new" and "finally" it seems to be referring to something in the recent past.

      You can always bitch about words. But the sentence in itself is correct. And the date is not that important in the context of this article. Apple thing is just an example to illustrate a point.

      At the time of the campaign, the feature was "new" as well as "finally". For the first time in Mac's history, it ran on an intel CPU (hence "new"). And the history preceeding that was as long as the history of PC (hence "finally"). Neither of the words have nothing to do with the recentness of "made" in this context.

      And additionally - any person who knows even a little about Apple history, read this sentence like this: "Macs, for instance, made a huge campaign [oh yeah - i rememver it from around 2006] of their products' new ability to finally support Microsoft Windows". I know I did and did not give it a second thought. There has not been another campaign by Apple on this subject except the "i am also a pc" stuff.

    11. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 1

      When I was studying English as a second language I was taught that Present Perfect should be used to emphasize connection to an event in the recent past. regular Past Simple tense is for stating facts.

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    12. Re:MS Windows on Mac H/W is not new by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      I'm reposting an AC's comment so it can be seen.

      Virtual PC was available to Macs way back in 1997. Not that the parent mentioned that, but the summary is still crap.

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  15. Re:There's a reason why they call it a "virtual" m by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    There has been some work(typically only supported on rather new server hardware) on giving VMs direct access to selected chunks of hardware. It is still controlled by the virtualization system, for security reasons; but if access is granted, that particular PCIe device effectively hangs directly off the virtualized OS, rather than the host one.

    Probably Not going to be coming to joystick ports anytime soon; but is considered a feature of interest for things like high speed NICs, GPUs, and other such devices where the overhead of having the host juggle the data coming too and from the card in software before handing it to the virtualized OS is impractically large.

  16. Re:Microsoft's tight grasp on OEMs again, I suppos by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

    Didn't HP have Splashtop for some time? Wasn't that essentially a super customized Xandros partition? I remember their 'Quickplay' from vintage 2005 was essentially enough Windows XP to allow PowerDVD to run, and coincidentally it tended to take longer to boot than just starting Windows...but Splashtop didn't completely suck.

  17. side by side OS's controlling the same files, HW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Boy, that's going to work out great!

  18. Enlighten me since the article lacks details by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

    Is this really that impressive? I looked through his website and couldn't find a straight answer(I guess if I dug through the code I could probably find it but not really willing to do that :P), how does he do this? It looks as if all he is doing is suspending the current OS state to disk(probably by using an SSD which gives you that instant on capability) and then unfreezing one of the other OSs. I assume you can only run programs on one OS at the same time(in the demo video he didn't show otherwise, in fact he purposely paused the video before switching). So really it seems to sacrifice almost all the benefits of virtualization for a perhaps tiny boost in speed if you only want to use one of the OSs. I can see this being very useful in a few niche situations, but overall virtualization is going to win out 99% of the time....unless of course I am missing something.

    1. Re:Enlighten me since the article lacks details by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the kernel is the same for all distros. He swaps out userlands quickly. Getting n linuxes to play nice sounds like O(n^2)

  19. Except for games by perpenso · · Score: 1

    There may be reasons to run Windows or Linux natively on a Mac, ...

    Games, or some other app that wants to squeeze every possible CPU cycle out of the hardware.

    ... but for me VMware Fusion does the job. Much better together than apart.

    I definitely agree for most apps. One nice thing about VMWare Fusion is that you can have it both ways, it does not require a VMWare virtual machine for Windows. Fusion can run Windows from the Boot Camp harddrive partition normally used to dual boot into Windows at startup. So when you need to run the occasional "productivity app" you can stay in Mac OS and fire up Windows in a virtual machine. However if you want to run a modern game you can restart the machine and dual boot.

  20. Re:Kubuntu does just about everything I need it to by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

    "Kubuntu does just about everything I need it to do"

    The very same claim can be made for Mac, Windows, BSD, or any other operating system you might care to name. They ALL do "just about everything". That doesn't change the fact that sometimes, one OS has advantages over another. I like Ubuntu. I installed an Ubuntu distro to the wife's computer almost 3 years ago now, and it's still running strong. She won't ALLOW me to update, upgrade, or otherwise alter her machine. And, my most elderly machine is still running Ubuntu 10.04. Meanwhile, I have several VM's installed via VirtualBox, some of which I use routines, others that I only fire up now and then.

    Windows can, in fact, perform a few little tricks that I can't do on Linux, without jumping through some rather obscure hoops.

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  21. Re:Microsoft's tight grasp on OEMs again, I suppos by Mojo66 · · Score: 1

    I don't think that Splashtop and similiar solutions qualify as an OS in terms of Microsoft OEM contracts, because it is part of the BIOS and is not installed on the hard disk.

  22. Ever run a mainframe? Try looking at LPARs. by emes · · Score: 1

    Sadly the PC world has unitl recently ignored yet another lesson from mainframes- logical partitioning.

    The concept is a minimal bare-metal hypervisor which in mainframes is built into the hardware and is integrated with a robust set of configuration tools. It's nice to see at least a shadow of this concept being implemented in something.

    1. Re:Ever run a mainframe? Try looking at LPARs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How would you partition a graphics card?

  23. "Corm!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now I understand that lolcat about "I HAZ A CORM." Apparently that cat is French and is trying to say, "Chrome."

  24. *sigh* by pushing-robot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Inconsistent design is generally considered a bad thing.

    For non-techies, switching operating systems is akin to learning a foreign language. You're lucky to get a typical Windows user to even try Linux or OS X long enough to become minimally proficient. Software like VMWare utterly baffles most people, and expecting them switch between OSes with different file structures and interface paradigms every time they start an app is an accident waiting to happen.

    "Why can't program X see my USB stick?"
    "Why won't program Y print to my printer?"
    "Where did all my files go? I can't even find the C drive!"
    "Why isn't my headset working?"
    "Why do I need Windows Updates on my Mac?" ...

    --
    How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    1. Re:*sigh* by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I think using Virtual Box in seamless mode is a much more entertaining way to confuse and baffle them.

      I've also had a we bit of fun putting all of the tools from Cygwin into the normal path on windows and using primarily *NIX commands in a DOS terminal to do my normal command line stuff. This is for your baffling your more experienced Windows users.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    2. Re:*sigh* by Locutus · · Score: 1

      nailed it! So many non-techies are never taught concepts and just remember icons and the menu names/labels they need to click to do something. With a userbase so ignorant of what they are doing even giving them the option to run the greatest OS which ever existed( fictional ) they would oppose it because it was different from what they "learned".

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    3. Re:*sigh* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DOS? Why are you still using Windows from September 2000 (or newer)?

    4. Re:*sigh* by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I haven't used Windows on my own stuff since early 2000, companies on the other hand tend to keep running it, even in out of date versions. I suppose I was incorrect to call the command prompt a DOS window, but seeing as how typing "ver" got an answers of DOS 7 for a long time.....

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    5. Re:*sigh* by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, it is almost essential for IT. There is a market to satisfy IT people.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    6. Re:*sigh* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i do this as well as install unxutils

  25. Re:There's a reason why they call it a "virtual" m by nabsltd · · Score: 2

    Probably Not going to be coming to joystick ports anytime soon; but is considered a feature of interest for things like high speed NICs, GPUs, and other such devices

    With the IOMMU virtualization in current Intel and AMD chips, any PCI device can be slaved to a VM. The trick is that things like joystick ports aren't usually their own device, but rather hang off of a PCI bridge that can't handle single-root virtualization, but is part of an aggregate root device that can. So, you wouldn't always be able to pick and choose just one device.

    In Linux, use "lspci -vt" to see the device tree. Any device that is just one level off the root can generally be slaved to a to a VM. I use this feature for an eSATA card and video capture cards and it works fine.

  26. Re:repressed religious people by Dekker3D · · Score: 1

    OS-tan characters. Your wish has been fulfilled-... sort of.

  27. Like the Asus Transformer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Asus Transformer runs Android Honeycomb whether the keyboard is attached or not. It doesn't have two different OSes.

    ---

    Posted from my Asus Transformer

  28. Windows XP mode works with some USB stuff by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Windows XP mode works with some USB stuff and it's not 100% pass though but it only has a carp low video chip set for windows xp mode.

  29. Virtualisation != Emulation, mostly by igb · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't dismiss "emulation" so blithely. Macs can, of course, run VMware or VirtualBox and run Linux, Solaris or Windows (or other things) inside those partitions. I have a Mac running all those three. The performance is mostly native, certainly for the things I'm using it for. The days of having to use VirtualPC to run a software x86 are long gone.

    1. Re:Virtualisation != Emulation, mostly by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      This is off topic, as it is not emulation, but Boot Camp can run most stuff that runs on Intel chips. I mention this only because I'm running an a 6 year old Macbook that dogs it on emulation nowadays, and rebooting into my other OSs saves time overall.

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  30. Killed what now? by proverbialcow · · Score: 1

    They still offer the Touchbook for sale. And there's even a second generation. But for my money, the Acer Iconia 6120 is seriously cool.

    --
    The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
    1. Re:Killed what now? by imroy · · Score: 1

      Check the forums - people still haven't received this hardware and are cancelling their orders. The main website hasn't been updated in a year. AI showed some neat ideas but have utterly failed to deliver them. In the mean time the big manufacturers have picked up those ideas and are selling slick consumer devices you can actually buy. Sorry AI, you're dead.

      Another neat idea they had was having the main system (SoC + Wifi + BT) in a phone-sized module with its own screen that can be removed from the tablet part and used as a (VOIP-only) smartphone. But that's also been tried by one or two big manufacturers since they showed this idea.

    2. Re:Killed what now? by proverbialcow · · Score: 1

      Still seems more like "actively engaging in fraud" than "killed product line." :/

      --
      The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
  31. Hibernate and restore? by utkonos · · Score: 1

    What is the technical reason or reasons why you cannot hibernate one OS (suspend it to disk), then restore another previously hibernating OS? Couldn't you have a number of OSs ready to run simply constrained by disk space?

    1. Re:Hibernate and restore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I switch between hibernated Windows and hibernated Debian sessions all the time, so this is already possible. Only drawback: I cannot write to the hibernated XP partition from Debian (reading works ok).
      Btw: This is on a Packard-Bell laptop so no special BIOS or something.

    2. Re:Hibernate and restore? by kasperd · · Score: 4, Informative

      What is the technical reason or reasons why you cannot hibernate one OS (suspend it to disk), then restore another previously hibernating OS?

      Some people figured out how to use rEFIt do that with Linux and Mac OS X. But too many people used this without understanding what they were doing, and the rEFIt author was annoyed with having to support that, so he fixed rEFIt such that it would no longer permit this.

      The main reason it cannot work is the file systems. If you have the same file system mounted read/write in both systems you are going to corrupt it. Read only access would be fine except from two problems.

      Some journalling file systems cannot be mounted read only. If you tried to do this with ext3 (that's the journalling file system I have the most experience with), the ext3 driver will not respect the request to mount the file system read only. What will happen is that the first system will leave the file system in a busy state. The next one that was supposed to only mount it read only will see that the file system was not cleanly unmounted and will mount it read/write, then clean up the file system, and then remount it read only.

      So, even if you thought you had configured it correctly, the OS instance that was only allowed to read still wrote something. Then you switch back to the one that is allowed to write, and since it doesn't know that something has changed the disk contents behind its back (and it wouldn't have been able to deal with it, even if it had known about it), the next write is potentially going to corrupt the file system.

      The other problem is that even if you can mount the file system completely read only, the file system driver still doesn't expect the contents to change underneath it, so once you have been in the OS instance that is allowed to change it, and then switch back, bad things may happen.

      To some extent you can get around the problems by unmounting file systems before hibernating and mounting them again when restoring. But if the file system was busy and couldn't be unmounted, you will be in trouble. In particular stuff like /, /usr, and /home are likely to always be busy.

      The safest approach would be to not access any file system from both systems. But that makes sharing data between them hard. If you were virtualizing and had both running at the same time, you could use networking file systems. But that isn't going to work when they are not running at the same time since one is always hibernated.

      You have a bit of the same problems with USB attached file systems. I guess those are unmounted when the system is hibernated, but I don't know what systems do if the USB stick is busy at hibernation time. You can probably mess up things badly if you put a USB file system into a situation that is almost impossible to handle.

      If you have a USB stick with no important data on it, then you can make the following experiment.

      • Put it in one machine and start a program that will fill up all space on the USB stick by writing a single large file.
      • Before the program has filled up more than a few percent, hibernate the system.
      • Move the USB stick to a different machine.
      • Start filling up the USB stick the same way by writing a single large file to a different directory on the USB stick.
      • Hibernate the second system.
      • Move USB stick back to the first system.

      Continue in this way by alternating which machine gets to write until the media is full. Notice that at no point do you move the USB stick while the system is running, you only move it while both machines are hibernated. My guess is that you will find that management of free space gets messed up badly, and the two files will be claiming to own the same physical areas of the media.

      Removable file systems tend not to be busy all the time and not likely to get into such bad situations unless you put them into challenging situations like I described. But there are file systems that you expect to be mounted and busy all the time while the system is running. On those the risk of such problems is much higher.

      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    3. Re:Hibernate and restore? by pmontra · · Score: 1

      Yes, but hibernating and restoring an OS image could be too slow. On my notebook hibernating 4 GB or RAM and restoring it takes longer than rebooting and restarting every single open application. Probably Android and ChromeOS don't use all of that RAM (but Ubuntu does) and there are many storage systems faster than my 5,400 rpm hard disk. Anyway the switching time is critical. What I saw in those video is a fast way of switching, not much worse than alt-tab or clicking on a VM window. A 5 s switch time would be OK, 30 seconds would be unbearable when one knows there are better alternatives.

  32. Solution looking for a problem? by itsdapead · · Score: 1

    What seems strange to me is, why haven't other developers jumped in on this already?

    Perhaps because its a feature nobody actually wants? It looks cool, but what are the practical uses? TFA refers to switching between ChromeOS, Ubuntu and Android - why? Last time I looked, ChromeOS was basically a gateway onto Google's web apps, which are available in any browser. Meanwhile I don't want to run Android/iOS apps on another OS - the point of a mobile operating system is that both the OS and the Apps are designed for mobile/touchscreen use: if I'm using a device capable of running a desktop OS then I'd also like to run full-fat desktop applications. Most decent mobile applications are designed on the assumption that you'll sync them with your desktop when available.

    Macs, for instance, made a huge campaign of their products' new ability to finally support Microsoft Windows, yet (disregarding emulation options) they're still limited to booting to a single working system at any time."

    Not sure what you mean by "emulation options" - modern virtualization tools are an order of magnitude better than old-school hardware emulators and perfectly adequate for all but the most demanding applications and some have gone a long way towards making Windows applications work as seamlessly as can be expected alongside OS X on the desktop and sharing files, clipboards. Plus, they let you do all sorts of other tricks like snapshots and exchanging virtual appliances that are useful for testing and experimenting. Parallels seems to be top of the heap in terms of OSX/Windows integration, some claim VMWare Fusion is more stable/has better support (I don't use it so I can't argue) and VirtualBox can't be beat for free.

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  33. No one NEEDS multi-OS by vinn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here's the thing - multi-OS is confusing for people. No one is clammering for it because no one is going to get a device and then figure out how to load another OS on it. Think about it - how many people do you know (outside of your circle of geeks) that has a clue you can even load another OS? No manufacturer is going to preload two OS's. And, the geek community really isn't large enough to support sales of consumer devices.

    People seem to be perfectly content having multiple devices. I don't know anyone who really uses Bootcamp, but I know quite a few Mac users that also have a Windows laptop laying around in case they need to use it, or the occasional VM. (Most Mac users I know seem perfectly content telling their PC brethren "I can't open that" and making them resend it in another format rather than try to figure out why their overpriced, shiny toy can't do something.) In the tablet world, there's not a lot of interoperability needed because there always seems to be An App For That.

    --
    ----- obSig
    1. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A netbook that boots both android and windows seems to counter your opinion that 1) no one has a clue this is possible 2) that no one wants this. And these netbooks do exist.
      Multi-boot big OS's that do basically the same (OSX, Windows, a desktop Linux) don't make much sense, except for an occasional file format they compete to fulfil the same needs. But when they do have more obvious differences, simplicity versus versatility for example, then it makes sense. And it starts to make sense to boot (in the background maybe) your desktop OS next to your android for example.

    2. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by blackfrancis75 · · Score: 1

      Agree. TFS dismisses emulation options, but really how much of a quantum leap would it be not to have to run Parallells?

    3. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use virtual machines big time. One of my main uses of a virtual machine is surfing the web. After I'm done surfing, I close the VM and all changes are gone.
      Nice for sites that require dangerous plugins like Adobe anything.

    4. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which netbook does that?

    5. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use Bootcamp every day on my iMac. I wanted a stable machine with more than the standard 1080P resolution (2560x1440) and use Windows 7 on it 98% of the time (with a couple Linux VMs running in the background). I only drop into OSX when I need to run a compatibility test, then do a native boot back to Windows 7 x64.

      I work with video decoding and neither Fusion, Parallels or other virtualization will allow for direct access to the graphics card memory (ala DirectFB, Overlays etc).

      Without Bootcamp I would need two computers; I'm sure there are other developers like me who need native OS support.

    6. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by jmactacular · · Score: 1

      I do.

      I run Windows 7 in one of my MacBook Pro OSX Spaces through VMWare Fusion every day. It's the best of both worlds. There are several significant features in OSX (like Spaces) that aren't in Windows, as well as OSX being required for iOS programming. And there is a lot of software I need for Windows based programming that only runs on Windows. On top of that, the MacBook Pro has tremendous battery life and is lightweight for a full laptop.

      I love it. I need it. I can't imagine living without it.

    7. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice way to screw up your perfectly valid point with pointless and insulting trolling.

    8. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      My Acer Aspire One for one. It's only 1.6 though so not a lot of use except for a quick web browse.

    9. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people I know don't even know what an os is.

    10. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      One further, then... My Acer Aspire 2k (many years old) also boots two OS's.. it's just that the OS that isn't the main OS is on a fixed partition and all it loads is a media player - so that, if I were so inclined, it could go from power off to playing back a DVD in about 6 seconds.

      Of course getting Windows out of hibernation only takes 8 and then I can play the DVD with whatever software I prefer, so there's little advantage to doing so.

      But it's there.. makes me wonder what else it could be made to run.

    11. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by ixnaay · · Score: 1

      Most of the EE's (and SW engineers) I know, including myself, use a Linux based OS with variants of Windows in a VM. Most of the tools many of us use (Cadence, Matlab, ISE, Quartus, Mentor, Spice variants, Modelsim, Synplify, etc., etc.). are optimized to run on Linux. There's a huge number of other advantages to using Linux for this type of work - ease of scripting (TCL / Python / shell / you name it), ease of off-loading simulations to dedicated machines - RDP can't touch X forwarding, superior HW/SW support for tools, and so on. Bottom line - efficiency is way higher in a measurable way - as we used to be forced to run windows only, with cygwin as our only unixy fix.

      But I spend a fair amount of time with MS Office, and most of the corporate infrastructure is windows based. So the virtual machine solution is fantastic for me and my co-workers. Seamless mode (aka Unity for VMWare) is nice for some people, but personally I like minimizing Windows (and the accompanying flood of email) while focusing on detailed work (easily distracted). I frequently move files between OSes, and dual-boot isn't a solution - I personally think virtualization will stay the main way to run a multi-OS environment for a long time to come. I like the direction things are going, and am looking forward to running a true multi-OS environment at some point in the future (with a light weight HV running the show), when Host / Guest start getting irrelevant.

      A little off subject, but while talking about OSes and electrical engineering, a rising trend that is driving me nuts is that so many of the scope and logic/spectrum analyzer manufacturers are running windows as their OS - and they brag about it in their marketing materials. The only thing I can think of is that many engineers don't get to pick the specific scope they get, and the purchasing or mgmt types think having XP on a scope is just fantastic. In an environment with security issues, Windows has to be locked down so hard it needs 2 or 3x the RAM a normal install would, and I frequently end up with $25k scopes which perform worse then their 15 year old equivalents. Ask a sales rep from one of these companies about offering Linux (or whatever) alternative OSes, and you get a 'wtf is wrong with you?' look.

      It's nice that so many of you put yourselves up on a pedestal that lets you see what all people in the 'real' world are doing with OSes. And to reference the GPs 'out' - EE /= Circle of Geeks (although I'll give you that there is pretty strong correlation).

    12. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      Having working in support for a medium sized software company that only releases Windows software, I can tell you there are quite a few people that use Macs and want to use Windows as well.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    13. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by bartron · · Score: 1

      Not sure what mac users you know but my experience is the opposite. Petty much everyone I know other than my mum and my sister has either a virtual machine or bootcamp install of windows for running the few apps that need windows to run. VM's are more common that bootcamp though mainly for the convenience of not needing to reboot.

    14. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Most Mac users I know seem perfectly content telling their PC brethren "I can't open that" and making them resend it in another format rather than try to figure out why their overpriced, shiny toy can't do something.)

      If there's a format that isn't supported by a Mac app, chances are its so rare that most MS Windows users don't have the app to open it either.

      The only semi-mainstream document format I can think of that isn't supported by something on MacOS is MS Access (and most mac users would definitely say "good riddance" to that.) Most of the time, Mac owners have accumulated a collection of apps that suport many more formats than the average "I don't have 'Adobe'" PC user."

    15. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      "This workspace is for video edition, this workspace is for games"

      Doesn't seem out of reach to regular users from my point of view...

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    16. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Having working in support for a medium sized software company that only releases Windows software, I can tell you there are quite a few people that use Macs *but are forced* to use Windows as well.

      Fixed that for you.

    17. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      Well, tough shit. If Apple would actually make their products affordable I am sure more people would be using Macs, and more developers would release versions of their software that works in MacOS. A 10 percent market share is hardly worth the time if you develop in .NET.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    18. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "No one NEEDS multi-OS"

      I NEED it AND I want it. If frequently use multiple OS's for my work. I think it would be great if I booted less and operated in multiple native environments. So far, I've just resorted to virtualization. It's getting better, but having two native OS's running concurrently is like the Holy Grail of computing.

    19. Re:No one NEEDS multi-OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, tough shit. If Apple would actually make their products affordable I am sure more people would be using Macs

      You can get a Mac Mini for $600. That is very affordable. A decent iMac or MacBook is $1200, which will get you a nice PC or a very good one if you build it yourself. It wasn't that long ago that you couldn't buy a plug-in-and-go PC for less than $1000, and PC users didn't bitch about how PCs were overpriced.

      Plus, if you use your computer to make money instead of just dicking around with it, $1200 is nothing. You can earn that much with it in less than a week. Stop your whinging.

  34. RAM usage shouldn't be a problem for VM users by RulerOf · · Score: 2

    VMs may do the job, but they take so much RAM!

    What they don't hog, though, is CPU time when they're merely sitting idle. The joyous fruits of hardware-accelerated virtualization, indeed!

    And if RAM usage is a problem for you, then I might suggest you stop buying RAM from OEMs. I bought a used i7 board and CPU from my boss, and populated it with 24 GB for about $180, and this was several months ago. Doing so today would cost even less.

    Point is, I can't think of a situation outside of running several VMs that would require more than 4 or 6 GB for the average power user today, and even if you are running VMs, stretch that to 8 GB (which would cost you about $50 for RAM) and go on your merry way and virtualize your heart out.

    --
    Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
    1. Re:RAM usage shouldn't be a problem for VM users by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      What they don't hog, though, is CPU time when they're merely sitting idle.

      Did you notice the raise of number of processes between XP and Win7? I did not analyze it closely, but the Processes tab in Win7 Task manager nearly scares me. Win7 seems to start a life of its own with all the background indexing, updating, caching, optimizing and I-have-no-idea-what-that-thing-does processes - there is always something going on in Windows 7.

    2. Re:RAM usage shouldn't be a problem for VM users by RulerOf · · Score: 1

      there is always something going on in Windows 7.

      Yes indeed, there is. With Vista, Microsoft introduced a lot of new tech behinds the scenes in their desktop OS. Primarily, and most visibly, the features they added helps reduce, and in many cases (myself included) eliminate, that rolling ball of "entropy" that XP desktops would eventually succumb to over time. Instead of the computer being as fast as ever right after you install the OS, and getting slower throughout its life, it actually gets faster after a few days and then maintains the optimization as time goes on.

      If you've got a decent multi-core CPU and 4 to 6 GB of RAM, background processes shouldn't adversely affect your machine, for what it's worth :P

      --
      Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
  35. Re:Kubuntu does just about everything I need it to by blackfrancis75 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Your reply is "I personally am happy with my OS"?
    Uh.. we're really happy for you (I guess) but miss the point much?

  36. Hardly anybody really wants to use multiple OSes by DavidinAla · · Score: 1

    Among geeks, there is a substantial percentage who think it's cool to run multiple operating systems. There's an even smaller sub-set for whom it's truly useful. Among normal, everyday users, though, the percentage of users who want or need this is very, very tiny. Just managing ONE operating system is complicated for most non-geeks. They don't WANT to further complicate their tech lives by adding more operating systems. For some reason, it seems to be very difficult for geeks to understand that not everyone is like them -- and the fact that they don't want to do what you want to do doesn't make them stupid. It just means their priorities aren't the same as yours. So this capability isn't "everywhere" because there aren't enough people who need it or want it to make it a profitable feature to add. Simple.

  37. Irrelavent by strangeattraction · · Score: 1

    Why would anyone care? Remnants of Microsoft Hegemony remain be their relevance is decreasing. I keep a version of Windows around on the off change that it will come in handy for the MS diehards but I find that is increasingly unnecessary. It is similar to AOL once people realize there are viable alternatives and enough people adopt standards having multiple devices and OS's in the work place is less of a challenge. The old ways die slowly (as they should) since there is no real reason for the adoption of new software when the old works well enough.

  38. Mobile-exclusive applications by tepples · · Score: 1

    the point of a mobile operating system is that both the OS and the Apps are designed for mobile/touchscreen use: if I'm using a device capable of running a desktop OS then I'd also like to run full-fat desktop applications.

    Unless the specific application that you want to use is exclusive to mobile phones, such as a bank's check deposit application that uses a mobile phone's built-in camera, or any of several casual games.

    Most decent mobile applications are designed on the assumption that you'll sync them with your desktop when available.

    iOS 5 is in fact going the other way, reducing its dependency on iTunes software. It appears Apple is opening the door to allow people to own only an iPad and not a Mac or a PC running Windows.

    1. Re:Mobile-exclusive applications by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      Unless the specific application that you want to use is exclusive to mobile phones, such as a bank's check deposit application that uses a mobile phone's built-in camera, or any of several casual games.

      The question is, how many of those apps make sense when they're not running on the mobile for which they were designed? In the case of the check example, why would you want to use the app on your laptop when you could just pick up your mobile - isn't it much easier to snap a picture of that check sitting on a table with a handheld? For the games, if its an accelerometer-controlled game, or one driven by your thumbs on the touchscreen, it might not be playable on a laptop.

      Anyway, mobile seems to be developing into at least a two-horse race and developers seem to be coping with the idea of supporting multiple platforms. Its a far cry from the bad old days when anybody bravely choosing a non-Windows platform was on their own.

      Remember, you don't just need one or two cases where this might be useful, you need a critical mass of applications that would make this OS switching a must-have feature.

      iOS 5 is in fact going the other way, reducing its dependency on iTunes software. It appears Apple is opening the door to allow people to own only an iPad and not a Mac or a PC running Windows.

      What they're doing is moving to a model whereby, instead of syncing device A with device B, you sync all of your devices with Apple's new cloud services. That's basically what Google has always been doing with Android and ChromeOS, and is a far more sensible way of doing things, provided you've learned to stop worrying and love the cloud. Its still "syncing". The use of iTunes for syncing everything has always been a weak spot of iOS and Apple's iOS productivity apps (and probably only happened because of Apple's problems with MobileMe): many 3rd party productivity apps have their own file exchange facilities and/or interface with the iOS version of DropBox.

      ....but that doesn't change the point that (say) Apple's Pages for iOS is a pared-down WP app designed to be manageable on an iDevice, and if you were working on a desktop you'd generally use the full-fat OS X version.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    2. Re:Mobile-exclusive applications by tepples · · Score: 1

      In the case of the check example, why would you want to use the app on your laptop when you could just pick up your mobile

      Because my mobile is an Audiovox 8610 flip phone with no camera and no web. I keep it because service costs me $65 per year, which I've gathered is close to what smartphone owners pay for a month of service. If I have a laptop, a dumbphone, and an account at a bank with no ATMs near me, how do I deposit checks?

      For the games, if its an accelerometer-controlled game, or one driven by your thumbs on the touchscreen, it might not be playable on a laptop.

      If there can be JoyToKey, why can't there be JoyToTouch and JoyToTilt?

      that doesn't change the point that (say) Apple's Pages for iOS is a pared-down WP app designed to be manageable on an iDevice, and if you were working on a desktop you'd generally use the full-fat OS X version.

      Unless Apple plans to port more features from the full-fat Mac OS X version to the iOS 5 version for use with any of several keyboard docks. Just as the MacBook was replaced with the MacBook Air, so will the MacBook Air be with the iPad. In the worst case, only application developers and people in audiovisual production would feel like needing a Mac.

  39. Re:Kubuntu does just about everything I need it to by pecosdave · · Score: 1

    Not really, I got that point, perhaps you missed mine?

    I'm just pointing out that sometimes there isn't as much of a need to switch between OS's as some believe.

    Chrome OS belongs in low end cheap netbooks - there I said it. Right now the Chromebooks are overpriced for what they are, but they are incredibly handy devices. For web browsing and doing what they do they fit a rather large nitch incredibly well, I could easily see how they're the perfect device for many people, and even in my case my netbook is overkill for a large part of what I do. Should the prices of a Chromebook fall below that of a standard netbook with otherwise identical or superior hardware they will have filled that nitch perfectly.

    If you want something more powerful than a Chromebook there is little reason to have Chrome as a live switch between option considering the Chrome Browser does what a Chromebook does without actually running Chrome OS (assuming you have the hardware portion covered). Chrome runs on every modern OS that's actually considered a useful option to have on a netbook/notebook. Having it as a "quick boot OS" isn't such a bad idea. Note/netbooks that have the selectable solid state quick OS and hard disk (or bigger solid state) option to save power/boot time is great, but why would you really want to live switch? Especially from the power hog "big drive" OS to Chrome OS when the browser itself fulfills that function and utilizes on-line everything (unless it actually shuts down the power hog in the process)?

    I use Virtual Box on occasion when I have to support Windows systems. The fact I've been without a Windows system of my own for around 11 years now doesn't mean I don't make a living supporting Windows. Sure the idea of a system like the one detailed has seemed nice on occasion, especially on a Mac when trying to get Mac Classic programs to not screw up things like color settings and resolutions for my daughter on OSX Tiger, but Apple saw to it I couldn't boot OS9 natively on that system if OSX was installed, even on a different HDD.

    I see little reason to switch between various *NIX OS's when the programs themselves will usually run on all the above.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  40. this is how it works by JoSch1337 · · Score: 1

    a short summary: http://superuser.com/questions/329375/how-is-this-operating-system-switching-done/330926#330926

    the presentation by AI at ELC 2011: http://elinux.org/images/5/5c/ELC-AlwaysInnovating-Gentil.pdf

    Troubles start when each operating system wants to get control over wireless, the display or any other resource they all share and expect to have exclusive control over. So considering how many bugs we already have in current operating systems I can hardly imagine the amount of hacks required to android or GNU/Linux to make them at least cooperate enough for basic functionality is worth the benefits of having multiple OS at the same time. I dont really see the advantage of such a feature.

  41. Re:Hardly anybody really wants to use multiple OSe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For some reason, it seems to be very difficult for people to understand that not everyone is like them -- and the fact that they don't want to do what you want to do doesn't make them stupid.

    Fixt. You see this attitude all over the place, no matter what topic the culprit is interested in.

  42. So then what is needed? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I love it. I need it. I can't imagine living without it.

    And you aren't.

    So then what point does the story submitter really have? As you say you can easily use OS X and Windows together. So then what would users be clamoring for beyond what you are already doing? There is a lot of competition in the virtualization space, so what is the point of asking for multi-os support when we already have it?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  43. Re:Kubuntu does just about everything I need it to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Good for you then. Some people might be dependent on software that does not run on linux or even under wine.
    Being able to quickly switch to for example Windows so you can play games is something that would attract a lot of new users to linux.
    I know of a lot of people who would not mind switching to linux permanently if it supported their software or game(s).

  44. Been there, done that by thecrotch · · Score: 1

    A lot of people seem to forget that Apple was doing this in the mid 90's, they had a PPC Mac that could boot DOS and Windows 3.1 via an x86 daughtercard, you used a key combination to switch between the two.

    1. Re:Been there, done that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not the same. That was a parallel hardware configuration, running the systems separately on separate CPUs. Not that it wasn't a cool trick!

    2. Re:Been there, done that by thecrotch · · Score: 1

      It was kind of a hybrid, it's true they used different CPUs but the systems shared a lot of the peripherals and I believe even the RAM

    3. Re:Been there, done that by WiiVault · · Score: 1

      Yes they did share RAM which was nifty. I do believe they had separate video memory though.

  45. it's been available for ages by chentiangemalc · · Score: 1

    You have to options 1) "bare-metal" hypervisor virutalization 2) "layer-2" virtualization - i.e. VMWare Workstation, Virtual Box, Parellels, etc running within primary OS Option 1 you can use free Citrix XenClient http://blogs.citrix.com/product/xenclient/ The problem is...limited hardware support. This is the primary issue with achieving option 1. Option 2 as long as your PC is powerful enough there is no problem here.

  46. Don't waste your time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't waste your time - I ordered one of these October 2010, for delivery Jan 2011. Finally in June or July 2011 I cancelled my order.

    Their communications are very poor. Never once did they contact me to tell me the order was delayed or why. I always had to chase them. They don't even announce much via twitter. Totally clueless at keeping your informed.

    Why did I cancel - well by the time the EeePad Transformer came out, the Eeepad Transformer was more powerful (faster ARM processor), had a larger screen, better screen resolution, a keyboard (like the TouchPad, which is one of the reasons for ordering) and was cheaper and was actually shipping.

    At the time I ordered a TouchBook Pro I was really pleased to support Always Innovating. By the time I cancelled my order I concluded that the only innovation they have is bragging about stuff that does not ship.

    Save your money and your time. Get and Eeepad Transformer. It doesn't run two OSes at once, but if I need that I run VMWare on my PC. The only downside to my decision is that the EeePad doesn't run Linux.

    Sorry about AC, but this is not from home and I don't have any idea of my password.

  47. Why bother? by euxneks · · Score: 1

    Not everyone needs to use more than one OS at a time, in fact I bet the percentage of people who *do* need to use more than one OS at a time is less than the percentage of Linux users in the world. And we all know how much support linux users get. If you want it you gotta build it.

    --
    in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
  48. Boot into Emacs by PKI+Champion · · Score: 1

    If you boot into Emacs, you can hot-switch anything you want. It's Emacs.

  49. Bwahahahah by msobkow · · Score: 2

    Man, the slashdotters are sure keeping me laughing today. Why in the world would you EMULATE an x86 PC on x86 hardware?

    Man, I got tears in my eyes from that one...

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Bwahahahah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an idiot. Emulation != always CPU emulation.

      Emulation means making one system work like another, and any compatibility layer can be considered a form of emulation.

    2. Re:Bwahahahah by k8to · · Score: 2

      That's exactly what dosbox (http://www.dosbox.com/) does.

      Yeah, it has some dynamic translation stuff to do faster emulation in some circumstances, but that's an implementation detail. It needs to emulate the older x86 instruction set limitations in many circumstances.

      --
      -josh
    3. Re:Bwahahahah by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Point out ONE emulator that doesn't emulate the CPU. Go ahead. I'm waiting.

      If you're running on the same CPU family, you may use glue/compatability code for the OS interfaces, but that is NOT emulation by any stretch of the imagination.

      I suppose, at least in theory, that you could emulate some specialized hardware that's not available on other machines, but I've never heard of that being done.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    4. Re:Bwahahahah by msobkow · · Score: 1

      I stand corrected. Thanks for providing an example. I hate it when people make claims and don't back them up with examples.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    5. Re:Bwahahahah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Point out ONE emulator that doesn't emulate the CPU. Go ahead. I'm waiting.

      Parallels emulates PC hardware, virtualizing the CPU.

    6. Re:Bwahahahah by IWannaBeAnAC · · Score: 1

      Point out ONE emulator that doesn't emulate the CPU. Go ahead. I'm waiting.

      Dosbox.
      Wine. (plus various offshoots)
      Dosemu.

    7. Re:Bwahahahah by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      WINE. It is, in fact, an emulator.

  50. Not sleep mode? by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

    I thought this was using sleep mode , to swap two OS's, ie you sleep windows, and when you wake up, the BIOS can choose between two sleep states, of the other OS. So you can wake up Linux.

    Is this feasable?

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
    1. Re:Not sleep mode? by Florian+Weimer · · Score: 1

      In general, you'd lose hard disk sharing because the disk partitions have to remain consistent over sleeps. It's also far from instantaneous.

  51. Outside virtualization, it won't work well. by Toasterboy · · Score: 1

    Most devices barely work in one operating system, let alone having to deal with being initialized and controlled by multiple driver models and switching back and forth between them hot.

    They are simply not designed for that scenario. Hence, the hypervisor, and virtualized devices under it.

  52. Just hide a remote Linux box in your house by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just hide a headless Linux server in your house somewhere (I used an old laptop whose screen had broken) and I think you'll find yourself much more content running a single OS machine.

  53. Resource tug of war by pgpalmer · · Score: 1

    Windows: I want to use the sound card!
    Mac: No, *I* want the sound card! Windows: The sound card is mine! Mac: No, it's MINE! Windows: MINE! Mac: MINE! You can't have it! User: Why aren't I getting any sound from this stupid machine?

  54. demand not there by smash · · Score: 1

    the demand just isn't there. the 1% of customers who want this feature are not worth the development expense.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  55. The real reason may be... by Timex · · Score: 1

    OS limitations.

    I think the closest we have seen in the 20+ years I've been using and playing with computers is when certain Linux distributions were released to overlay MS Windows. Windows didn't like it much and there was some tinkering to be done to account for that, but it was doable then. Why it hasn't persisted into something more mainstream could be due to Corporate Greed, where companies like Microsoft want their OS to dominate uber alles...

    tl;dr: Can it be done? Yes. Has it been done? Yes. Do all OSs like it? No.

    --
    When politicians are involved, everyone loses.
  56. Maybe, but that's niche by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    While I see your point, that's niche at best. Even most developers are really coding against ONE operating system and really set of libraries, because they're doing server apps. So while making the perfect app that can truly run everywhere might be a nice nerdy goal to have (non-nerds will have more tangible goals like "get laid" or "get paid" or "make it to Friday 5pm so I can spend the weekend at the pub"), in practice they're still getting paid for something that will only have to run on, say, Java 1.6 on an AIX computer on a Power 5 CPU and with exactly the IBM VM that comes with Websphere at that. So, you know, whether it runs exactly the same in Windows 7 or an old copy of XP is really fluff. If it works on the test and production server, then that's that. Need or want for some testing across all possible OS-s? Zero. Nada. Zilch.

    And that's not even getting into what end-users do, and let's just say that, yes, it's the apps that are important. It only matters if they can use MS Word to read your doc, or IE to read your site. Even the thought of configuring 5 operating systems to check out your page in 7 different browsers and versions, ranks for the average user up there with being anally raped with a spiked mace. He doesn't want to do that. He just wants to point whichever browser his "Internet" icon launches at your site and do whatever he needs done.

    For him even having one OS is more of a nuisance that comes with the territory. Even the thought of trying the same under a different OS ranks up there with trying to walk to work with a different number of feet. Why bother?

    So I guess to return to the question in the OP, basically you have Adam Smith's invisible hand flipping you an invisible but humongous middle finger. It's easier and cheaper to let you figure out using VMs and multiple OS's than to make that a standard feature. Because the average John Does ain't paying for it, and ain't wanting any of it.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  57. Doing it all the wrong way - apps matter not OS by dbIII · · Score: 1

    If MS Windows didn't have the attempt at proper X windows support ripped out of it at NT3.51 we wouldn't be reading this. If you can run the applications wherever they run and interact with them on the screen in front of you it really doesn't matter what OS or even what hardware is underneath. Booting into whatever carefully walled garden you need to run what you want is the 1980s style constraint forced on us for the purpose of marketing.
    The "cloud" is not going to be able to fix it entirely because large revenue streams depend on those walled gardens, just as the web didn't fix it and X didn't before. We're not much closer to just being able to run what the users want wherever they are than in 1996.

  58. Re:There's a reason why they call it a "virtual" m by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

    Intel in its infinite wisdom disabled VT-d in the i5 2500K and i7 2600K.
    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/08/what-processor-should-i-buy-intels-crazy-pricing-makes-my-head-hurt.ars
    If that wasn't the case I would have shelled out the money for an i7 2600K and a motherboard a few months ago. As it is, I procrastinated and now the Bulldozer desktop CPUs are just around the corner so I'd rather wait for them.

  59. Re:Kubuntu does just about everything I need it to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How on earth would "you can play games in Windows" attract users to Linux?

  60. On a quad core system it would be nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to assign 2 CPUs and 4 GB RAM to one OS and same to another OS, and switch instantly between the 2.
    Virt is okay but still flaky and slow compared with real OSs. Performance within virtualized guest is always substandard and poor, especially disk and network performance. It's useful for testing though.

  61. Re:Kubuntu does just about everything I need it to by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

    "I use Virtual Box on occasion when I have to support Windows systems."
    And there you blow your argument right out the window (pun intended).

    In you first post you said-
    "I have played with emulators for just about everything, even Android. I fail to see a purpose, my full Linux desktop does everything I need..."

    And now you completely contradict yourself. "Everything I need" does not equal except "when I have to X".

    Sigh.

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  62. Re:Hardly anybody really wants to use multiple OSe by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

    Pretty much spot on. I have a Mac with Parallels with Windows, but I basically gave that up a while ago and just use my wife's Windows machine if I need to do something that is Windows-only. I got tired of having to update both my and my wife's computers' anti-virus, Windows updates, Office updates (well I do have Office for Mac, so that's not 100% correct), whatever the fuck else updates.

    I see this as a nice tool for developers that work in multiple spaces. That's about it.

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  63. Re:Kubuntu does just about everything I need it to by pecosdave · · Score: 1

    My Linux desktop DOES do everything I need. When I start up an emulator to support a client, that's what my client needs. When I'm not doing remote support contracts (it comes and goes) I never start up my emulator, therefor running emulators is the need of the client. Even then I don't often start the emulator, only when I need a local point of reference or I absolutely have to run the same environment they do for testing.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  64. Re:Kubuntu does just about everything I need it to by pecosdave · · Score: 1

    I've moved back to consoles. Every since Epic decided to dance around the Linux support thing they sort of messed up my Linux gaming - Unreal was one of the few things I played. There's lots of good games on Linux, they're just not always the ones I want. Good thing I don't have time for games in general any more.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  65. Probably because it's over-hyped by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

    1) It's on ARM hardware, so any comments about Windows are irrelevant. (I don't count Windows 8, since that's not out yet, and will likely only support a limited subset of ARM machines due to the fragmented nature of ARM board architectures. Most likely Win8 will only run on "certified" ARM hardware - look at how tightly MS controls WP7 hardware architectures.)
    2) There are probably severe limitations that Always Innovating isn't mentioning. I've checked them out periodically for a few years. Always Innovating would be better named Always Heavy on the Rhetoric. They're "all show and no go".

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  66. Re:There's a reason why they call it a "virtual" m by nabsltd · · Score: 1

    Intel in its infinite wisdom disabled VT-d in the i5 2500K and i7 2600K.

    Intel really needs to stop the desktop/server differentiation for it's CPUs.

    With 8GB of RAM common, and 16-24GB fairly easy to find in "desktop" configurations, ECC is becoming more important, yet Intel still sees it as a server-only feature. Virtualization will quickly become the same, and Intel needs to accept that the last real server distinction should be multiple sockets (yes, high-end workstations have that, but people who need that know that it's really a mini-server).