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Ask Slashdot: Does Being 'Loyal' Pay As a Developer?
An anonymous reader writes "As a senior developer for a small IT company based in the UK that is about to release their flagship project, I know that if I were to leave the company now, it would cause them some very big problems. I'm currently training the other two 'junior' developers, trying to bring them up to speed with our products. Unfortunately, they are still a long way from grasping the technologies used – not to mention the 'interesting' job the outsourced developers managed to make of the code. Usually, I would never have considered leaving at such a crucial time; I've been at the company for several years and consider many of my colleagues, including higher management, to be friends. However, I have been approached by another company that is much bigger, and they have offered me a pay rise of £7k to do the same job, plus their office is practically outside my front door (as opposed to my current 45 minute commute each way). This would make a massive difference to my life. That said, I can't help but feel that to leave now would be betraying my friends and colleagues. Some friends have told me that I'm just being 'soft' – however I think I'm being loyal. Any advice?"
Always a shitty situation. Sometimes I think you can grow with a company.. they get bigger, can pay you more/give you better opportunities. In most cases though, it seems that eventually you outgrow a small company. You grow faster than they do, and gradually the outside offers get more and more tempting.
This kind of thing is hard for me, because I have the same “leaving now would screw these guys” kind of thinking. You’ll be hearing from the “business is business, do what’s best for you, they’d drop you in a heartbeat if they could save a buck” crowd soon enough.
The only thing I can say is that people are usually not as critical as would seem. I’ve been amazed on several occasions at how quickly someone I would describe as “if we lose him we are screwed” is replaced. People step up and figure shit out. It is rocky, and will cause headaches, but eventually people make it work.
...it's the fear of the unknown. What if it's not as good as it looks? If you're making more money and gaining an hour and a half every day it's a no brainer.
Ask yourself what they'd do if somebody came along and offered to do your job for 7 grand less.
You have to remember that your company has no loyalty to you. If their revenues drop and they have to save money, your job will be on the line!
Always do whats best for you and yours (family).
Ask for a raise, see if you get it.
Loyalty is a consideration - but first comes paying the bills. Are you happy and satisfied with where you work, and your style of living? Would the 7k increase be worth it for you, to switch, and leave them where they are? Company is about risks and resources, if they don't manage their resources and take a risk at loosing something that is important and even key to what they are doing, it is their problem, not yours.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
It sounds like a deal you shouldn't pass up. And I admire your loyalty. Your new employer will appreciate your loyalty, too, when you explain to them how you still need to help your old company out.
I am sure they would accommodate your working with your old employer until they can get on their feet once again. Perhaps telecommute some, or work at the old job a few days a week.
If they had objections to that, I would question wanting to work for them...
plus their office is practically outside my front door (as opposed to my current 45 minute commute each way). This would make a massive difference to my life.
The commute alone is worth switching for. That's an (unpaid) hour and a half of your life that you get back.
Loyalty to your employer? Are you kidding? They would fire your ass in a heartbeat as soon as the numbers exhibit a downturn. Our parents' generation could rely on employers to consider loyalty a two-way street; you don't job surf and they give you all kinds of benefits including pensions, profit sharing, and so on. Now, decision makers don't think twice about firing thousands of workers when the numbers take a temporary dip, just so they can show shareholders a temporary spike in profits to get their bonuses.
Besides, do you live to work, or do you work to live?
Fuck loyalty to your employer. Take the better offer.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Either way, you should document the hell out of everything so that if you were hit by a bus tomorrow they wouldn't be similarly fucked.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Why wouldn't you? You have no guarantees that after the two Jr Devs get up to speed, they don't get rid of you (surely they are making less). The company would also have no qualms about laying you off if they need to - it's only business.
If upper mgmt were REALLY your friends, they would want what's best for you. If they are bitter about you leaving, then they are not really your friends.
Ultimately, you need to do what's best for YOU.
Why not take the new job & act as a consultant on the old job?
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Tell your current company about the offer, and see if you get a counter-offer.
(and if they don't counter, you know how you're valued. Leave.)
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Loyalty is considered to be a virtue for a reason(hominid life, up until the past few thousand years, and still in many places up to the present day has basically been a case of 'iterative prisoner's dilemma'. As it turns out, being a good guy by default, and only shafting the other guy if he has a history of shafting people works out for everyone fairly well.)
So, here's the question: if you job, by virtue of size/holding structure of company, psychological profile of leader figures, etc. is still small enough that its behavior is largely governed by "human" heuristics, loyalty can pay off. They will know who their loyal people are, value that, and your long-term payoff(especially if the product launch goes well) is likely to be good.
If the company is larger than a certain size, run by sociopaths, or otherwise no longer governed by conventional human logic, the management will still recognize "loyal" employees; but by "loyal" they mean "sucker who will stay around for more punishment, for illogical emotional reasons, until we suck him dry and throw his husk away". Bad situation...
That's the real trick. Being loyal to people is usually a pretty good idea. Being loyal to an organization or sociopath who considers you a "human resource" and your "loyalty" to be a form of primitive emotional weakness that makes you easier to exploit is always a terrible, terrible plan.
If your employer would(hypothetically), tell you to clean out your desk and instruct security not to let the door hit your worthless ass on the way out if you were to get sick and be expected to be less productive because of treatment/recovery for a period of time, then it is a fairly safe bet that you are just an "input" to them. If so, fuck-em. They'd fuck you over for money, and it looks like you've been handed the change to do unto them before they do unto you.
If, in that same hypothetical situation, they would exhibit care, understanding, concern, accomodation, etc, it is probable that they are the sort of entity that will recognize, value, and reciprocate loyalty...
Take the new job and laugh all the way to the bank. Seriously, just give them notice, and take the new job.
I agree with the idea of "WWARD?" but I don't think you understand what Ayn Rand would do.
What is the risk of that extra £7k? One thing Rand understood was TANSTAAFL. A £7k raise isn't a good move if the new company goes out of business in 6 months. Or if you're trading in a 10 minutes commute for 90 minutes in traffic.
But more money from a company closer to home with no discernible difference in company stability or advancement potential? Why is this a question? Is there some other factor?
Are you going from Puppies and Rainbows, LLC to Fire & Brimstone, Inc?
Working with friends is nice. Changing jobs doesn't mean they aren't your friends anymore. You do (or should) have a life outside of work. If they're 'work friends' you only see during the day, they'll be replaced by new work friends at the new job.
As for your friends in management, they aren't. I've known plenty of people (and been one of those people) screwed by management they previously thought of as friends. The higher up the friends were, the bigger the screwing.
On the other hand, I've never heard of someone not affected by lay-offs or other company action due to protection from friends. I've seen it happen due to good managers looking out for their employees, but never due to friends.
So seriously, more money and much shorter commute? No diggity, no doubt.
"well, we don't have the budget to do anything now, but I'll <ahem> make sure you are rewarded when you review comes round in X months time."
You're now in the worst possible situation. You've played your hand and got a commitment that almost certainly won't match the offer you have; either financially or in terms of commute, or wider opportunities in the new place. But it gets worse. You've also told your employer that you're willing to dump them - so you're now top of the list of people to sack - especially as the guy is at present training 2 more people (his replacements).
Also, the "I've got a better offer" is only a ploy you can use once. So if you do stay, you are unlikely to ever get the chance to bluff for another payrise - and you can bet that in years to come any above-average rise will get brought back into line with below-par awards in coming years.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons