Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: How Do You View the Wall Street Protests?
__roo writes "The New York Times reports that the Occupy Wall Street movement has inspired hundreds of Facebook pages, Twitter posts, and Meetup events, and that 'blog posts and photographs from all over the country are popping up on the WeArethe99Percent blog on Tumblr from people who see themselves as victims of not just a sagging economy but also economic injustice.' What do Slashdotters think? Do you relate to the 99% stories? Do they make you angry — either at the system, or at the protesters? If it's at the protesters, is it rational or a just-world effect?"
Even if you're screaming right outside their door, they're just going to call the cops and crank up the volume on the TV. I don't seriously believe that the Occupy campaign are going to do that much to change what is going on. The 1% already control everything. Everything that you buy, everything that you watch and everything that you do is controlled completely by this 1% group. Just about the only way I can think of to wrest power away from these folks is if the 99% were to stop buying everything for more than 90 days. Once the corporations see their income statements go to zilch then you would see real change.
Just add {In Space!} to anything.
Want to do something about the current failure of money? Start using Bitcoins. It'll be the biggest protest with the biggest impact in history.
http://www.weusecoins.com/
Here be signatures
From what I've seen, it's actually 80% arguing with 19% about 1%
The problem is a financial system built on making enormous amounts of money without contributing to society.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
I'd join the protest if I wasn't taking care of my Mother after my Father died. I think it's a crock how things are but I also feel the top 1% aren't fully to blame. The 99% needs to learn to not be asleep at the wheel half the time and learn to say no together in order to get things done like boycotting things and not just go for "I got mine, too bad about yours" deals.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
These protests lack a specific and/or measurable goal. It's really difficult to reach a goal that you haven't set. I agree with most of the rhetoric being brandied about, but the lack of focus could be a deal breaker for the occupy movement.
Populist rage of the disaffected, only these are unemployed college grads instead of moderately racist suburbanites. And while this group lacks coherent talking points, at least they are angry at the right people.
Oh, wait, sorry . . . I was thinking about last year's protestors.
About time the losing side in the class war started fighting back, I say...
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
They're too focused on the "greed of wall street," which makes the protesters seem like they're after handouts.
They need to instead focus on financial crimes, the fact that many of the people in the so-called 1% who are responsible for the subprime lending crisis, etc. aren't sitting in jail despite the fact that it's these white-collar crimes which bankrupted many innocent people. If they focus on the tax evasion, insider trading, blatant abuse of trust, and so forth, then they would have a more convincing case.
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
I see a lot of bitterness on Slashdot about the U.S. political system: the sentiment that all the politicians are bought by moneyed interests and are at best indifferent, at worst actively hostile, to the needs of the person in the street or the country as a whole. I see the "Occupy<Location>" protests as expressing the same sentiment.
At this point I think it's more important to build consensus about the need for action, than to determine a specific course of action.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
These people are the best chance we've had to turn around a country that's been headed in the wrong direction for at least the past 30 years. We live in a country where Goldman Sachs can commit thousands of acts of felony perjury, and not one person stands trial. They create fraudulent financial instruments, and pay back a small portion of their ill gotten gains as "fines" (bribes). Yet if I were to write a bad check to cover some groceries, I'd be going straight to jail. There's no way to describe this but tyranny.
Barack Obama, the greatest hope in a generation, is either unable or unwilling to do anything about this. If he's unwilling we have a severe political problem. He was elected to bring us change he refuses to deliver, and we have no way to hold him accountable.
On the other hand, if he's unable, we have a much more serious problem. That means democracy is well and truly dead in this country. The corporations have a complete stranglehold on our government. Unfortunately, this is more likely to be the truth.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
They finally made it to San Francisco. But they either moved away from their initial location on Market Street, or were completely forced out of the city. What little I saw of them made me think that
* the local homeless and drifters finally found something to do with their free time
* they have no chance in hell of accomplishing anything
Specifically, they won't accomplish anything beyond getting attention. They have hundreds of different, sometimes opposing goals. They're all upset with the status quo, but have no workable solutions. They're largely made up of young, idealistic people with little corporate or political experience. They cannot tap into any networks that carry any weight. They're doomed to be nothing but friendly protesters who will at some point run out of steam.
To some extent, I can understand them. The system we're in is set up to benefit a very small minority (0.5%, from what I've seen actually). There's less and less economic mobility. Profits are privatized, losses are socialized. But they're not the equivalent of the Arab Spring, because they have no solution. Worse, they're pointing at the wrong people when they're asked to point at the culprits of the current situation.
Winter is coming. It's going to be cold. Tthe tent cities will disappear. And with them, the movement. Maybe it will be reborn into something different, something with more teeth, simpler goals, and a better understanding of politics and economics behind it. That is their only real hope. I wish them well.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
I'd be there with them.
Though I think protesting on the Capitol Mall might be more effective - I'm pretty fed up with the GOP bending over backward for Wall Street and weeping about poor Bankers and Wall Street when the call for better regulation was made after the banking crisis. Also rather sore about the bonuses being paid, right after the bailouts. A lot of the rhetoric regarding "we have to leave these people alone because they enable our economy" fell on my deaf ears - the economy took a right battering thanks to their blind pursuit of margins and percentages on return, never mind the risk.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
So, you're saying that unless they are the one person on earth living in the worst possible conditions without actually dieing, they should cheerfully accept their regular ass-raping and just be thrilled that they're not that guy? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
As a slashdotter from Russia, I feel a great curiosity towards the Occupy Wall Street. It shows the U.S. that foreigners like me weren't able to see yet. Other than curiosity, I feel some sadness, as we have two socialist parties in Russia, that get all pro-Socialism votes. What the Occupy Wall Street strives to achieve is a smaller part of our political system, that used to be a greater part once ago. That's why Occupy Wall Street makes me to think about our past, present and future.
I see it (hopefully) within the context of similar protests that have occured throughout US history.
For example, the Pullman Strike. That, and other labor unrest during the later part of the "robber barron" era lead to things we now take for granted such as minimum wage and the 40 hour week.
There were also grass roots leftist movements during the Great Depression.
When you read these histories, some of the things said by actors on both sides are eerily similar.
The hope is that these actions will reform and perfect our republic; but not destroy it. "Revolution" is a word that gets tossed around a lot; but I think there are very few people who want a true revolution (which I would define as a new constitutional convention that unseats all currently elected officials in one fell swoop and replaces them with something else).
The US has been flexible over its history, and that's a strength. We don't need a revolution because it's built into the Constitution in the form of elections and even the ability to ammend the Constitution itself. For example, some have proposed an ammendment that would overturn Citizens United and strip corporations of personhood. I'm not arguing for or against such an ammendment. I'm just citing it as an example of how change can occur within the framework of the Constitution without destroying the nation.
In other words, we have the rights of speech and assembly, and they are being used. I just hope they don't get abused and destroyed.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
The simple fact that you're mentioning a class war makes me think you have little useful to say. What's going on right now has nothing to do with class warfare, and all to do with people being sick of bailing out private institutions when their bets failed.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
1) End the Collusion Between Government and Large Corporations/Banks, So That Our Elected Leaders Are Actually Representing the Interests of the People (the 99%) and Not Just Their Rich Donors (the 1%).
2) Investigate Wall Street and Hold Senior Executives Accountable for the Destruction in Wealth that has Devastated Millions of People.
3) Return the Power of Coining Money to the U.S. Treasury and Return to Sound Money
4) Limit the Size, Scope and Power of Banks so that None are Ever Again âoeToo Big to Failâ and in Need to Taxpayer Bailouts
5) Eliminate âoePersonhoodâ Legal Status for Corporations
6) Repeal the Patriot Act, End the War on Drugs and Protect Civil Liberties
7) End All Imperial Wars of Aggression, Bring the Troops Home from All Countries, Cut the Military Budget and Limit The Military Role to Protection of the Homeland
Not sure where this came from, but it was making the rounds on Facebook. Numbers 6 and 7 seem rather "wishlist"-y, but other than that this looks roughly accurate.
With the first link, the chain is forged.
"I owe $70K in tuition fees to a high end college. My parents are ultra liberals with six figure salaries apiece. I'm in the 99% boo hoo." Well, I guess that (being not in the 1%) is probably true from a strictly technical standpoint, but I have a hard time FEELING SORRY FOR YOU.
Where ever did you get such a broad brush? I must purchase one!
With the first link, the chain is forged.
In other words... the problem is that industry regulates the government.
I went to the park Sunday and got a first-hand look at the 'protest', and what struck me was how small the protest is. The park is slightly smaller than a half city block (size of a football field), and there were two or three tourists/observers for each sign-carrying/slogan spouting/sleeping protester.
The lack of a central them or focus allows anyone to identify with theprotesters: against the Fed? Fractional banking? Standardized testing in schools? Tax the rich? End the wars? Against student loans? Out ofwork? Then you can find a kindred spirit in the protesters. If they focused on one thing, the majority of protesters would bolt - they sacrificed any chance of actually effecting change (in my opinion) for the appearance of larger numbers.
The protest will implode on Oct. 15th, when they maximize their numbers, their lack of focus will undermine any advances people imagine they have made.
Ken
Are you talking about TARP, that was signed into law by George W. Bush a full month prior to the elections?
Sadly, I've learned most Slashdot users will talk from self-perceived position of superiority and mock any and all attempts from people to improve things, exercise their right to free speech or just try to do whatever they can to fight for their rights.
They will gladly complain about the Evil Xs, Ys and Zs until a common person dares to do something about it and ends up being noteworthy. That's when the hate machine will come down upon him. Meanwhile, I wonder what WE do to change anything.
Our level of constructiveness seems to be approx 1 % :/
"Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
If I was close to where the large areas are I'd be there tearing up my $900/month student loan bills too.
sorry but that smacks of self interest more than anything else. you borrowed the money. why don't you think you need to pay it back? if the answer is something like "corps borrow money and don't pay it back / get bailed out", your thinking is wrong. the solution is for everyone (corps and individuals) to pay their debts and act financially responsible. the answer is NOT the opposite, for everyone to refuse to pay their debts and act financially irresponsible (as you are did / are doing, respectively).
two wrongs don't make a right, so they told me when i was 3 anyway.
I want to know two things:
1) What are your problems? Not some random vague laundry list like "Wall street is bad," or "The rich suck." A short, specific, list of the things you believe are big enough problems that they warrant protesting over.
2) What shall we do about them? Just whining that there are problems is not useful. Propose solutions. Real, workable, solutions. Understand what the tradeoffs for those solutions are (all actions have cost) and be ok with that.
If you can't identify what it is your goals are and how you might go about achieving them, then I can't really support you because I don't know what I'd be supporting. Also I don't think there is much chance of success.
If you look at the successful stuff along these lines. Like, say, the civil rights movement they had precisely what I was talking about. They could clearly define the problem (that minorities were not treated the same as whites) and the solution (require the same treatment under the law) they desired. There was a goal being worked towards. It was something people could rally behind, and did.
So these people need to figure out what they want and how it should be done, and be able to state that in a cohesive fashion. Until then, I can't be supportive because I won't support something unless I understand what it is I'm supporting.
The protests started when the weather changed from Hot to Pleasant. They'll end when the weather changes from Pleasant to Cold.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
I can't speak to the "entire" 99%. However, there's a large number who fall in this category: Middle class, busting their ass, struggling with credit cards, student loans, car payments, mortgages. Just making it. They're angry at the right people - but they have the wrong idea. The middle class are more than happy to keep signing up for credit - this is how the rich have become the new Monarchy. You don't kill that power with signs and cries to the government: you do it by choosing to stop giving them all your keys to personal power.
Teach your children: Debt is bad. Go to college on grants and scholarship, bust your ass working to pay for the rest. (Make 70% of a Harvard salary, but with $100,000+ less debt) (You'll have to teach your kids to get past the fantasy they've been sold that college is foremost about the social experience - work your ass off, study your ass off, and if you have any left over time, that's for socializing)
No credit cards. If you don't have the cash (yes, I mean debit card, silly) to buy the latest iPhone/clothes/Christmas present, then plan better. Or accept that you simply can't afford it.
No car loans. No car leases. First car will be garbage. Pay yourself what you'd pay in a car payment - every 3-5 years you'll have a pretty nice car and no debt ever. New cars - never. Horrible loss of value. Always buy something 2-5 years old.
Mortgage: This is the hard one. Most people can't save up $150,000-$300,000. Actually they can.. but let's assume you need to rely on the bank. Never get into a house with less than 20% down. Then attack that mortgage. Don't pay the minimum and keep the rest so you can have the latest shiny beepy and your kids can have the latest plastic happy. Live crazy cheap for 7 years - most people can pay off their house in this time. If you start off early, and have a decent job (and aren't strangling yourself with debt), it's possible to save up and just write a check.
Obviously all this is a bit insane, but let's stop believing the lies: we have to go to the best school, the only safe car is a new car, that credit card payments are a way of life. Your best tools aren't your picket signs and your Tumblog: it's your income. Take it back, and make it the force behind changing your life.
For those already in the hole, there are some sacrifices to be made, but it's possible.
An average person, 100% debt free by age 35, will be a multi-millionnaire by the time they are 70 (assuming they aren't a total idiot about how they spend their $ after debt).
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
That picture is clueless, they aren't opposed to corporations, they are opposed to crony capitalism.
I think the invisible hand of the market has its middle finger extended
--A wise old fart named SC0RN
Sorry... no.
Sad as it may seem, the federal government (as screwed up as it is) is the only body that could possibly keep these fuckers in check. Your proposal would make the federal government weaker which would in turn make the Wall St. asshats stronger which in turn screws us all.
Instead of drowning the federal government in a bathtub (ala Grover Norquist), I suggest we take our government back from the greedy pigs and use that power to set things straight.
Simply getting rid of the sheep dogs because they've sold out to the wolves is not the way to go. If you leave the sheep to fend for themselves, we'll all end up as wolf poop.
What we need is new sheep dogs.
... is not a bad idea. There's a lot to protest for sure. The protests currently going on though? Well from what I've seen they don't know what they're protesting, or why. They're there simply to be there. Which is hardly going to change anything or even cause much of anyone to bat an eye.
That reminds me of one of my many favourite lines from Canadian Bacon "There's a time to think, and a time to act. And this, gentlemen, is no time to think."
Just going out and "building consensus for action" is not useful unless what the action is is defined. I will NOT stand behind any movement who's purpose is not defined. I have to know what you and I have to agree with it before I can support you.
What's more, if you look at successful protests, well that is what they have. They have a list of what they believe is wrong and what should be done to solve that. They are the ones that work. As I said in another post, the civil rights movement is a great example.
If it is just a bunch of people whining that we "need to take action" or something without saying what, then I've no use for them.
Steal a dollar, get probation
Steal a thousand dollars, get a fine
Steal a million dollars, get home detention
Steal a billion dollars, get a long jail term
Steal a trillion dollars, get a free swag of taxpayer money and become a consultant
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
The protesters are drawing some attention and venting some anger, but that's about it right now.
There is however a huge opportunity for public education.
Instead of angry faces, and moronic signs like "y u not angry?", it would be nice to see some calm & rational folks down there with signs like:
"Bank Locally"
"Manage Your Own Retirement Funds"
"Reinstate Glass-Steagall"
"End the Federal Reserve Banking Cartel"
And if you talked to these people, they would make suggestions like:
1) Move all of your accounts and loans to a transparent, non-profit, local credit union. Or at least to a trusted small local bank.
2) Withdraw all money from your 401K, 403B, IRA, etc and manage it yourself. (The banks and government have lied to you about the long-term benefits of these accounts...which you will see when your retirement funds, which probably were already reduced by poor money management, are hit with the double-whammy of higher capital gains tax plus hyper-inflation).
3) Lobby your local senators and representative to reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, cap usurious interest rates, institute clawback laws for insane compensation of bank execs, place the Federal Reserve under ~government~ control (haha! you thought it was under government control?), etc. Call your elected representatives. Write them. Collect signatures of other constituents who will not re-elect them unless they push for these changes.
Etc.
The cost living is a lot higher in the US compared to 3rd world countries. So in a country like India someone could be solid middle class and even have a nanny and a cleaning lady yet still make less money than someone living paycheck to paycheck in the US.
"Sadly, I've learned most Slashdot users will talk from self-perceived position of superiority and mock any and all attempts from people to improve things, exercise their right to free speech or just try to do whatever they can to fight for their rights."
If the protesters themselves didn't try so hard to invite ridicule and instead focused squarely on getting their message out, we'd have a reason to take them more seriously.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Comment removed based on user account deletion
1: I and many others who would constitute the "99%" do not stand with them. They need to redo their math. 2: No one forced anyone to take any loan. Personal financial responsibility doesn't go away just because you aren't rich. 3: No one is entitled to give you a job. 4: If wall street was breaking the law, then go picket the SEC for not doing its job. If they were not, then go picket the SEC for not doing its job. 5: Much of the 1% had nothing to do with mortgage crisis.
In debates about Christianity, there are two groups: those looking for answers, and those looking to just ask questions.
I went to Occupy Wall Street in New York, in Liberty Plaza on Thursday night.
You hear in the news media about how the park is not clean. I stood and watched the General Assembly go on for some time - while I was standing there, people with brooms came by every 15 minutes or so. The OWS people are almost overdoing the cleaning in response to the criticism, I've never seen more sweeping and cleaning than I did in the park. So if you hear on Fox News that OWS is not cleaning up after itself - it is just not true. I've never seen a place cleaned so frequently.
When I was there, most of the people were young people - in their late teens and twenties. They were winding down for the night so they were relaxing more. On one end of the park musicians were playing drums and other instruments, and the young people were dancing. Past them were a lot of sleeping bags. Past that people were being fed by a kitchen. They have a media center being run by a portable generator I believe. Past that is the general assembly where they make decisions. There is no loudspeaker so people repeat what the speaker says for those too far away - kind of like in the Life of Brian, but hopefully with more faithful repetition.
I've followed the internal political discussions about the effectiveness of these kinds of things for a long time. One point is it's a demonstration, in the sense of an example. Food is handed out freely, decisions are made through direct democracy in a general assembly, there's a DIY esthetic for everything, in a spirit of cooperation. So a community is created in OWS that is an antithesis to say the Wall Street financial companies - which are in buildings surrounded by semi-conspicuous barriers, behind which are tall office buildings whose entrances have security cameras, security guards and locked security gates, and up the elevator you have people wearing suits (or as fashions change, business casual) in a high-pressure, competitive, cutthroat hierarchy, run for profit. It's creating the new society in the shell of the old, as it's sometimes put
Then there's the other political considerations. Obviously this is inspired by the demonstrations in Tunisia and Egypt and the Arab spring on one level, and perhaps in some dialectical way the Tea Party as well. In the US in the 1930s there were student organizations, labor organizations, labor political parties and parties courting labor for people to get involved in. Nowadays less than 7% of private workers in the US are in a union. But things have changed in the US as well - in the 1930s Detroit going on strike would be shutting down America's economic engine - nowadays if Detroit went on strike, it would be much more minor of a ripple in the national economy. The UAW threatening to go on strike is much less threatening to the powers that be.
One of the biggest laughs is OWS has not come out with a clear program for the ordinary 99% of us not born with a silver spoon in our mouths, to get us into a better position. Well who out there actually is doing that? The corporate media is completely controlled by billionaires, Congressmen collectively get billions of dollars in campaign contributions, Bill Gates and others are trying to privatize all schools into charter schools. These rich heirs control the media, the government, increasingly the schools, and even churches really. Most importantly of all they control enough capital to effectively control all capital, they control who works, who doesn't, and the offices we go into every day, where our labor is kicked up to these heirs in one form or another by way of a quarterly dividend check. And then the real kicker is these people also effectively control or co-opt the organizations made to check their power - labor-oriented political parties and labor unions. That's why I feel that the OWS general assembly gives voice to my concerns in a way that all the other controlled and coopted organizations out there do not. People generally don't think about these things, but as the unemployment rate drags on at 9%, as the housing market stays sluggish and so on, more people dwell on these things.
That's not to say that their anger is misguided. Those who got us into this mess have done less time in the slammer than the protesters who were unlucky enough to get arrested. Our political system is not so much broken as already bought. And the wealthy in this country, by and large, have every reason to regard themselves as America's upper caste, since they're effectively immune from poverty, or even the rule of law for that matter.
But if there is a message here, it's getting lost in the noise.
--- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
To what ends? How far down the drain must things slide before they become worth fighting for?
Bingo. Myself coming from the second poorest country in the Western hemisphere, I find it appalling that Americans criticize other Americans because they are fighting for greater equality, accountability and the preservation of the standard of living which is what makes living in the developed world great.
Like yourself, I'm not exactly sure what the hell these holier-than-though-we-have-it-good morons expect. Should things slide till things degrade to the point the average standard of living is no longer what it should be in a developed country?
The total student loan debt in the country is now surpassing credit card debt. When you used to be able to get a college degree with no more than $15K in debt, now you have to acquire debt 2-3 times that amount at least!. Social mobility is decreasing. There are 14 million people unemployed. People who worked hard for years, decades, are now unemployed because their jobs moved to China, and these same people get derided because they never got additional skills - with what money, with what education system, and if you are over 50, with what opportunities to get hired in a new field again?
You can finish college owing $50K and still not have a chance to get a job. And you have no other educational alternative since we do not have a state-funded post-HS vocational education system. Unemployed are being derided for not being entrepreneur and small business owners, but those who deride them conveniently ignore the little fact that capitalism (or any economic model for that manner) cannot absorb a population entirely made of entrepreneurs.
It is a sad indictment that it is cheaper for someone to travel to a third world country to get basic medical care than here. One would imagine that a country with the highest living standards would provide affordable health care for people making the minimum or close to the minimum. You need to make at least 2.5 or more of minimum wage just to afford medical and dental for yourself, let alone your family if you have one.
This might be a country with a very high standard of living, but you can still be poor and live a shitty live. It is an arrogant thing to say the poor in this country that they still have it better. They do, but just marginally with respect to the cost of living in this country. This from someone (myself) that comes from a country (Nicaragua) where there is still people looking for food and recyclables in garbage fields.
I would dare to say that in my old country, so long as you live within walking/commuting distance to a medical center (that is, you don't live in a remote village up in a mountain), you get a better chance to get basic medical care on a regular basis than a poor person in this country.
And that is the saddest indictment of all. People who deride the protesters, claiming that they have nothing to complain, they really don't know what the f* they are talking about.
I think many of us realize something is wrong... that whatever is supposed to be working is no longer working. Bankers seem to have undermined some basic things in our culture but haven't had to answer for it. Politicians and corporations think they own votes and manipulate both the media and political boundaries to keep it that way.
Maybe it's all coming to a climax of some sort. Corruption on the massive scale that we've had for the past two decades may have reached the breaking point. At some point politicians can no longer do favors for every competing special interest and ignore popular opinion.
Have we reached that point. Are we at an "American Spring"?
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
This Wall Street protest is one of the most interesting phenomena that's happened in a long time.
We like to think that we know the general pulse and mood of society and that the outcomes are predictable, or at least reasonable.
If Apple comes out with the iPad, it may bomb or it may be popular - both outcomes seem to be likely given the current state of the world. If a cop is videotaped beating a suspect, it will likely go viral. If the president gives a speech, it will have little lasting importance.
The Wall Street protests are different because they are completely inexplicable. Masses of people don't protest without a reason, without a rallying point, or without a charismatic leader. There's always *something* that starts them off, that prompts people to take action. The recent London riots were precipitated by a cop shooting a civilian.
If these protests truly are just a manifestation of general popular mood, then the country could be in serious big trouble, for the following reasons:
1) If this is general popular mood, then the protests are emblematic of the mood of the *entire* population, and
2) These sorts of situations are fertile ground to grow new, charismatic leaders.
Not to Godwin the discussion or anything, but this sort of unrest has similarities to the environment that allowed Hitler to rise to power. Theoretically, potential charismatic leaders exist in our society but never become popular due to social circumstance. If the people are content, it's hard to get a following.
The protests are interesting because of all the unlikely things that have happened: it was unlikely that they would start, it was unlikely that they would grow, it was unlikely that they would spread to other cities, and it was unlikely that they would be sustained for so long.
So many unlikely outcomes are a clear indication that we can't predict the next outcome.
Hence, it's interesting.
reduced to zero, they'd lay off all their workers, who would then be *really pissed* at the elitist bastard protesters.
Then the workers would mostly vote Republican since the Republicans would say, "You had a job until those elitist left-wing bastards destroyed your jobs."
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
I think all these people at these occupy protests shows there is lots of anger and frustration out there and that the fear and attachment to the status quo are diminishing.
This is a ripe time for a charismatic leader to tell them what to think, and gin up some will to act decisively. Its also notable that heading into presidential elections none of the candidates are that person. Obama is out there trying to be and its not working. These people even if most would be unwilling to say it actually want the current political system gone.
There does need to be a leader though. A friend of mine lives next to a Cleveland Federal Reserve employee, who went down to the street to see what the Occupy Cleveland folks wanted. What he tells us is that he told them look, I am one of these guys, I will be getting on airplanes and talking to Congressmen, Senators, Federal Reserve Board members, some European and World Banks reps and others all next month. What would you like me to tell them?
They protesters were not able to come up with an answer. The group could not come up with a single actionable statement. He was not looking for anything real specific, he just wanted something a little clearer than "JOBS!"
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Personally, I find a lot of the 'revolutionary' talk by the Occupy Wall Street folks disturbing.
While I am sympathetic to some of their concerns, by no means do I share all of them. For that matter, they need to get a handle on what their concerns are. It seems like they are quickly becoming a magnet for all sorts of far left fringe groups. In that way, perhaps, it is somewhat like a polar opposite of the Tea Party movement.
Regardless, we have a system for changing things in this country and it starts with voting. If these people think they are going to stir things up and start some sort of Great Socialist Revolution, they are going to find out damn quick that they are NOT supported by 99% of the population.
- Necron69
Require full reserve (as opposed to fractional reserve) banking. It would remove the pyramid.
Deleted
It is class warfare. The rich have been at war with the rest, and kicking our asses, for the past thirty years. They have taken damn near everything we ever had. It's high time we fight back.
One person can make a difference politically.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Frank_Czolgosz
The replacement of McKinley by Roosevelt lead to many of the anti-monopoly and customer protection systems in place in the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huey_Long#Assassination
This eliminated a strong opponent of FDR for the '36 election
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Bremer
His attempt ended Wallace's run for the Democratic nomination in '72 and turned him away from his segregationist positions and to a politician who respected and appointed minorities.
Disclaimer: I'm a social liberal. Hippie, even. My passion is education and my occupation is sustainable transportation. I can't wait for gay marriage to be legal everywhere, I happily pay my taxes to redistribute wealth (I live within my means) and pay for socialized services, dream of the day of fiscally sustainable socialized medicine, and believe that all tax loop holes should be closed (in a perfect world, etc.). I like to donate my time to help other people. I'm a humanist preference utilitarian.
Statement: I think a good deal of the Occupy protesters are as bad as the Tea Party-ers. Few understand the implications of their assertions and demands. Few understand the futility of sit-ins, hunger strikes, and walk-abouts. They have no singular cause... no three points of demands and a plan to achieve them. Instead, they're so very grass-roots, that it's attracted a bunch of people who just feel like they need to yell at someone who's listening.
But no one's listening.
They're angry, they're let down, their parents' generation milked American credit for all it was worth and now they've been told go to fix it. Instead of creating meaningful action and initiative, they're chanting.
Further disclaimer: I marched against the war in Iraq with millions upon millions world-wide. The effect? America still invaded Iraq.
Statement: People have forgotten that the only way for protests to work is for the protestors to be pitiable. What are the memorable photographs of the 1960s? Here's a hint: they didn't involve hyperbolic signs or masked faces. They are of dead people-- having been shot unjustly by the national guard. They are of those being sprayed with fire-hoses and being attacked by police dogs. These protesters aren't allowing themselves to be pitied. They seem too well off for the middle class to care.
Well here's what I found in a quick web search:
1. Pass HR 1489 (reinstates much of Glass-Steagall)
2. Use Congressional authority to investigate and prosecute criminal actions on Wall Street
3. Congress pass legislation to protect democracy by reversing the Citizen's United decision (although personally it looks like it would take either a constitutional amendment or the Supreme Court overruling themselves to correct this blot on the nation)
4. Congress pass the Buffett rule so that the rich and corporations pay their fair share, close corporate tax loopholes, ban hiding money offshore
5. Congress revamp the Securities and Exchange Commission
6. Limiting role of lobbyists
7. Disallow the revolving door of regulators working for the industries they regulate
8. Eliminate corporate "personhood"
That's paraphrased from occupywallst.org
But if you were to search around a bit longer you'd find other, related things, like auditing the Federal Reserve, reinstating a stock transfer tax like we had from 1914-1966, instituting regulations on the derivatives market, breaking up or nationalizing the "too big to fail" banks, push for a jobs bill (either President Obama's or something else), and you'll also find some un- or slightly-related stuff too, like ending "institutionalized racism, sexism, homophobia, and hostility to immigrants" which was one thing I found.
If I had mod points right now I'd give you all I could. Nail precisely hit on head.
I see, so you figure the unemployment figures are just because everyone (except for you) is worthless? You figure it never makes sense to demand favorable terms for employment? That plan has been given several decades to work and all it got anyone was declining real income, declining loyalty to employees, and rising unemployment. It is not sane to try some more and expect any different outcome. We'd like to fix things BEFORE we end up as bad off as that poor sod you believe to be the only one with a right to complain.
"Nobody said life is fair", the battle cry of the people who come out for the better because of the unfairness. Occasionally parroted mindlessly by people with a bad case of Stockholm syndrome.
It's society's job to provide the opportunity.
And the protesters are pointing out that the provided opportunities are no longer good enough to count as a substantially fulfilled obligation. If you owe $1000 and you hand over $900 and buy some food, we can understand. If you owe $1000 and hand over a penny and buy a new jet ski, we will not. The latter is what the 1% have been doing.
Very solid advice. I'd add a few more:
- If you get married, learn to live on one income.
- If you do have a second income, use it to pay down debt as aggressively as you can, then to save up for big-ticket items such as a down-payment on a house, a used car, retirement, etc.
- If you plan to have children, don't count on a second income until the youngest is of school age. It's a full-time job to care for very young children. It makes sense to maintain business contacts, go to professional events, and do short contract work to keep your resume current, just don't count on the income. Take care of the kids first, then ease back into work -- and apply that extra income to getting debt-free.
- Don't spend a lot of money on "premiere" vacations while kids are very young. They won't remember any of it when they get older, and it's incredibly stressful on the whole family. Take the kids to the great outdoors instead. National and state parks are amazingly good vacations, and cheap, too.
- Invest early. It takes decades to build up a nest egg. The goal is to have a big enough nest egg so you can live 2/3 off the interest income when you retire, the other 1/3 from retirement insurance plans such as Social Security.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
How exactly is that unlike the tea party?
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
It's a good start
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Very interesting. As a poll worker, however, I am amazed that people feel they have to sleep in the streets to effect change. The number of people who vote in local elections is just a tiny fraction of those who vote in the big national elections. But it's in the local elections where the slate is chosen -- who gets on the big ballot, and who does not. If just 5% more people turned out to vote, we'd have radically different politicians to choose from.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
Wall St. is strangling the economy. Not the president, not congress, not even the lobbyists.
Outsourcing, H1Bs, downsizing, hostile takeovers, monopolies, mergers, automation, corruption, bribes, slave labor...you name it...it's all in the name of putting profits before human beings without exception. We used to have decent protections against these things, but since Reagan they have been systematically dismantled by both parties.
Shareholders & Boards of Directors are paying Lobbyists, and Lobbyists own Congress. If you believe otherwise...you are simply wrong.
Corporations are Sociopaths with shareholders profitting from the blood and suffering of those who get trampled in the process.
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." --John Steinbeck
I've heard this schtick about "job creators" before, referring to the rich as people who "produce things and improve society" as you put it. It is bullshit.
Larry Ellison and Charles Koch are not out in their garages building things. They are not personally hiring 20,000 people. Corporations are doing these things. Corporations are the job creators and thing producers.
The rich are just people like any other. Except that they have more money, which they often invest into companies in order to sustain their personal fortune. But that makes them merely investors. Their ranks are easily replaceable by a middle class that can afford to do the same and whose smaller but far more numerous investments would make up for the few-but-large investments of the rich.
Investments help companies create jobs and produce goods, so long as those companies are sensibly run, but you do not have to be rich to invest. So there is no reason for the rich to get special income tax breaks. All this talk of "stimulating the economy" through high-bracket tax breaks is based on trickle-down economics. And trickle-down economics is a superstition which has proven to be bunk.
i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
Morons. Goddamn morons.
They're not pissed about some faceless banker doing something stupid and having the government bail him out.
* They're pissed because after years of studying they have tons of debt piled on with a nearly-meaningless degree to show for it. And yes Jimmy, there are too many Psych, Media Relations, etc. majors out there earned from over-priced colleges that don't do much other than pile on debt on young people while deluding them with moronic theories rather than give them skills to better survive and prosper in the new world (Ivory Towers of leftists academics are so much different from what you would expect from your boss in a real job).
* They're pissed about the fact that they see their corporate and government entitlements vanish after electing the crooks to power that outsourced this country's industrial base to Mexico, China, etc.
Oh, did I mention that NAFTA flooded the Mexican market with cheap grain/corn thereby forcing millions of Mexicans head north and depress the price of labor? I didn't?
* They're pissed about something different and are simply hogging the media coverage.
* They have nothing to do.
Now, if you really want to do something, do the following (yes, you'll have to call your Congress rep and yell at them, loudly and often).
* Put a cap on how much a college can charge for tuition (with and without
* Bring back the post-Depression banking laws that *clearly* separated investment banking from personal banking. Anyone remember these?
* Kill NAFTA, CAFTA and other absurdities. Because lets face, free trade isn't exactly some sort of universal leveling trade-barriers. It's a backhanded form of protectionism and economic imperialism.
* Kill farm subsidies.
* Reform the tax code to increase taxes on those that make more. Jimmy, did you know that during the 50's we've had taxes over 50% and we were less socialist than we are now? No? Well Jimmy, you're a retard, for not paying attention in history class, just like millions of your red-blooded American country men. Getting behind Obama/Perry/Pelosi/Bachmann/other moron and waving the American flag doesn't make you a patriot, it makes you and ideologue.
* Reform the tax code to promote industrial growth and industrial exports. Mercantilism, people did it because it *gasp* worked.
* Develop a national vision of where you want to be in 20 years, no, not 20 seconds, but actual years.
* Scale back military involvement around the globe.
* Develop fuels that you can easily, cheaply and frequently replenish.
But in all honesty, I wasn't born in America. The politics is interesting, if quite often bordering on insanity. Good luck in the next 89 years!
Give me one reason why we should NOT hold corporations accountable for their actions.
Give me one mechanism whereby we can hold them responsible, and you may be on the way to answers.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Is the poor treatment the protesters have given to local businesses and the police....yes I said the police, imagine your job is to patrol a protest that you may even agree with, so that no one gets hurt and nothing gets damaged, just to listen to people scream at you, cuss at you, and even throw things at you.
It's absurd, do the protesters really think the business owner and the police aren't having exactly the same financial issues and fears as everyone else?
I know the police have gotten up to bad things, I am not naive about that, I do feel if you have a message and you want people to care and listen, then say it in a respectful fashion, even when you yourself have not been treated that way.
If you need any more information on this idea read about a guy named Gandhi.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I've been around here long enough to know that top posting unrelated to the prior comment is bad etiquette, but again, I've been around here long enough to know when it is appropriate. I also know the magic formula for getting modded up is to say "I'll probably get modded down for this but.."
I'll probably get modded down for this but it is important enough to risk it.
The Occupy Wall Street movement does not have any leaders or stated goals or structure on purpose. This is an action deliberately taken in order to have broad populist appeal. The same instant they take a side on any issue, the established political system will immediately use that as a wedge issue to label, then divide and conquer the scraps of popular sentiment and kill any interest. Once a leader is selected, they will find one thing that guy/gal has said publicly, label him as a partisan for it and kill the movement. The parties have been doing this for years and have more experience, skill and money to deflate populist action than can be competed against. The only way to win that game is not to play.
The movement does have a goal and that is to take back our democracy. Get people talking about the issues again without having predetermined party lines or agendas. Once those lines are drawn, almost everyone stops listening or thinking and just go like lemmings how they have always done. The only thing this movement wants is an equal shake at a fair government. They want their representatives to actually represent them instead of representing the highest bidder: usually the rich and the corporations.
The purpose here is not to take any specific issue to congress, it's to overturn congress with people who actually listen to their electorate. If that means voting incumbents out, great, or at least put the fear of the people back into them, good too.
What is their stand on abortion? None. But once we have fair representation, we can talk about it democratically.
What is their stand on gay rights? The environment? Housing? Taxation? Big Government? None. But once we have fair representation, we can talk about it democratically.
What is their stand on any issue? TBD but we'll talk about it democratically once we have fair representation.
You don't have to agree with this movement on any specific issue and you don't have to hold off on support because they don't have talking points or take stands on your personal hot-button issue. For now it's enough to say that all the issues are TBD until such time as we have fair representation and can figure it all out democratically.
There is a sentiment of discontent in everyone I talk to. Everyone knows the system is broken but nobody has the power to change that. Voting is supposed to solve these problems but voting either way is a vote for the same thing.
Slashdot is typically an open minded place, I think this movement should speak to each of you. The only thing they want is more democracy. I don't blame anyone for thinking there is a hidden agenda, because there almost always is. But this movement has reached enough of a mass with the cause of having no purpose that it would be hard to argue that there is one. When the only underlying cause visible in their message is "More democracy!", I don't see how anyone can be against that. Want to change something about that platform, get out there and discuss it democratically instead of sniping at it from the comfort of slashdot.
This is a movement that is outside of and has rejected the established political system. And it's the only one I've seen in my lifetime that has rejected playing the two-party game. I am very excited that it has even gained some traction and has people talking!!! To me it is a moral imperative that we support this. Even if all it means is getting some people you know to talk out the issue.... even that alone is progress.
And one more thing: It's not the liberal version of the Tea Party. Both sides would **LOVE** for that to be the big soundbyte for precisely the same reason: Divide and conquer. The right will discredit it to their base as more liberal whack jobs and the left will attempt to co-opt whoever remains with the movement. It's important to reject that notion outright. The movement has NO POLITICAL STAND. The only way to win the game is not to play.
I agree with you completely.
I'm 32 years old. I'm probably a bit below that 10% personally but growing up I lived in a household of 6 where the total assets were probably closer to 8k. We got by. Now when college came I chose one that I knew I could afford and had some luck finding a decent job (after a year of unemployment). Now I make an income that is greater than my entire family put together due to that good luck and I am getting better. I was careful and recovered from bad debt management (and that year of unemployment). I consider myself AMAZINGLY lucky as I have moved from below poverty to probably between middle and upper middle class. It was alot of work, skill, and luck. But I'm here.
These people are mostly younger than me college age students. They are carrying iPads and drinking Starbucks. At their age I actually wouldn't have dreamed of paying $5 for a beverage. Hell I didn't even pay that much for alcohol for getting drunk during college (quarter drafts were the best invention I have ever experienced). I have trouble identifying with them as it doesn't seem like they want to go through the struggle I did. I don't know where they want money from. I also don't know why they feel they deserve to be more prosperous than they are without struggling for it.
You can't find a job straight out of college? I had to relocate pretty damn far from home after a year of searching to find a job in a field that had a high hiring rate. Did you pick a good career path?
You can't afford to buy a home or rent your own place right out of college? Maybe you shouldn't be trying to do that in one of the most expensive housing markets in the country.
If they put out a message that spoke about a specific issue or a set of issues like corporations being too involved with the government I could get behind that. But right now it feels like they are whining about sour grapes. Yes the division of wealth in this country sucks and it isn't getting better, but instead of whining about it and hoping someone fixes it for you or the problem magically goes away come up with real ideas about how to fix it or try to protest about specific causes. Heck it doesn't have to be one, but a little more focus would make them sound a lot less whiny.
Pure capitalism, just like pure communism is full of fail, and we are about to see the reason why. But not before we do a hell of a lot of damage with it, it will go down swinging in one of the bloodiest civil wars in the history of the Earth. It's far better that it happens than the alternative; we swing full into fascism and start paying our bills through outright global domination.
If you compare and contrast the history of the rise of Nazi Germany with our current events, especially how far our Rightwing has gone to the right, you will be startled, amazed and frightened. Few really do understand the terminology of fascism and it's history. It's tailored like a glove to our times though. I have often wondered how the good people of Pre-Nazi Germany could have been duped into becoming the evil empire that they became. Now I have seen with my own eyes, and heard with my own ears the effects of carefully cultivated propaganda.
Where we have failed: Our democracy has been hijacked by corporate interests. We have allowed bribery to not only become legalized, but its an art form. You can't have representative government if the moneyed few can influence the politicians. Our current economic situation is due to our trade policies. "Free Trade" is the biggest lie to be imposed upon the American people in our entire history. "Free Trade" is an oxymoron, business is war, and trade is the mother of all wars. Our founding fathers understood this, and that is why they limited the federal government to collecting funds only through trade tariffs. They understood the need to protect the ecology of the nation's economy.
What we have now are trade policies that are dictated by multinational corporations that call this rape "globalization". It means they can have goods manufactured in countries that pay only pennies for labor, then come flood our markets with these products. This kills kills our industry. It kills our job market. New ideas and innovations can't draw upon our work force, they have been cut out of the loop, and those in power have the markets sewn up. These corporations in power, not only stack the deck in their favor with bought and paid for politicians writing them laws, they also fix the markets for themselves, and get huge stacks of "welfare" from our tax payers.
The first step to correct this is to get control of our politicians back into the hands of the people, and out of the hands of the mega rich and the multinational corporations. This involves campaign finance reform, but that hasn't happened, in fact its went the other direction. It's now even easier to buy politicians with the changes to PACs.
The second step is to correct all of the crooked trade policies and laws that stack the deck in favor of specific corporations and industries, allowing them effective monopolies.
But this isn't going to happen. Those in power have seen this coming for a long time. They have been buying both political parties for decades now. They have been systematically disarming the public as well. They have been building the worlds biggest prison industry, and police state. They own the laws, the politicians, and the law enforcement. They have now the ability to use the military on our civilian population if we decide to have armed revolution. They also control the media, which has proven to be an effective propaganda tool.
The media has done a great job of indoctrinating Americans into believing this corrupt system is "the American way" and to fight to the death to defend it from "liberals, commies, socialists, etc" We have proven how well they control us when they can send our children off to wars that have lasted longer than WW2, and for reasons that are not clearly explainable, we just "have to trust them". We are fighting a "war on terror". This is such a lie. One can't fight a war on an "emotion." It's nonsensical double speak, set to confuse and befuddle the undereducated masses.
The Tea Party was a contrived movement, started by billionaires in an attempt to guide the obvious
Take the Red Pill.
To summarize, bullshit.
The lender is responsible for ensure they borrower is capable of paying back the loan, especially when they are lending someone elses money, especially MINE.
Yes, the borrower is responsible for paying back the loan, and when an otherwise good borrower suddenly fucks up and doesn't pay back a loan for whatever reason, you understand that is part of the risk of lending.
However, when the bank makes loans like they did for my wife. $180k loan to a woman in college (3rd year vet student at the time) with absolutely no job and no time for one anytime in the next 2 years, then its is entirely justified to blame them when it goes South. The bank was fucking utterly retarded to loan my wife the money. Her only 'income' was student loans, which ... they fucking counted as income.
Fortunately for them, we actually do have the money to pay for it.
The point however is that there are times when its just part of the lending business, and then there is what has been going on over the last decade where bankers were giving money to anyone anywhere regardless of if they actually qualified for it or not ...
Theres absolutely no way you can claim its not the banks fault when they were giving loans to people who claimed other loans as 'income'.
Few people are blaming the banks because the banks legitimately took someones house who hadn't been paying for it, and those people are just nutjobs. What people ARE bitching about is the fact that the banks are foreclosing on homes they don't even fucking have loans for, and GETTING THE DAMN HOMES. They're foreclosing on homes with no paperwork showing they even loaned any money or bought a loan from someone else. They are calling up offering MUCH better financing now and asking existing customers to refinance because they don't have anything to PROVE they actually own the lean on the home!
No one feels sorry for the guy who lost his half million dollar house because he couldn't pay for it working at McDonalds. We are pissed off because the fucking bank GAME HIM A HALF MILLION DOLLARS WHILE WORKING AT MCDONALDS. We're pissed off because all the assholes that caused this shit are still rich as fuck and the government gives them money so they don't get hurt any more, while those of us who didn't fuck up are paying for it. I don't mind helping out when I'm helping someone worse off than me, but here its the poor and middle class bailing out the rich because THEY FUCKED UP.
Don't try to shift the blame. I any many other people did our part and paid our bills, and we'll be glade to help out the guy who can't feed himself, but forcing me to bail out the fuckwads who have 4 or 5 extra digits on their bank accounts than me ... when they fucked up and are still currently raping others like me?
We are responsible for our position in life, and what you're seeing in these protests is people who are getting more and more tired of being fucked over even though they've done everything they were supposed to, because the rich guy in the office on the top floor, Southwest corner, who will make more in the next 15 seconds than most of us will in the next 3 years, pays off the right politician.
They are becoming more responsible for their direct position in life, hopefully the guy in the building and the politicians will start listening, in the last year, several countries have fallen for smaller reasons.
You can keep blaming the little guy, but he's getting a lot closer to just whipping your ass rather than bitching.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
This is a proposal for amendments to the US Constitution in a draft, outline format.There are three basic elements. Silence group influence. Generate the platform and agenda from the populace. Make running for any office ostensibly free, and then select the upper tier for closed competition. I come hopefully from logic and reason, rather than emotion, ideology, or other loyalty.
Proposal:
28. Corporations are not Persons
28.1. Groups, corporations, PACâ(TM)s, unions, political parties, religions, ethnic communities, etc., are not individuals for the purpose of freedom of speech and do not hold first amendment rights, or any rights as individuals. Single persons are individuals. Like minded people are allowed to agree with each other, disagree with others, and vote how they like. Groups may exist or form and may take positions on issues, but have no right to advocate outside of their own forum by paying for any kind of communication, such as paid advertising in any form that is propagated by a group.
28.2. Elected officials may meet with individuals in groups (no private meetings except with staff), not organized groups, though they may meet with disorganized groups i.e. open sessions, both in their hearing rooms and in their home districts (they represent their people, not others). Closed sessions are not allowed for any purpose where other than legislative officials exist, except in the very narrow interest of national security, for an extremely limited number of items.
28.3. Lobbying, by an organized group or causing an individual to lobby for a group, of elected officials, their staff, or non elected officials (bureaucrats) by any group is a felony and all officials, officers, and directors said groups are to be held liable. Individuals may lobby, but may not give gifts or restaurant meals or anything other of significant economic value or any kind of influence. Groups may express their sentiments, but references by an individual to a group constitutes hearsay, and is not allowed.
29. Elections
29.1. Eliminate the electoral college and then fully fund election advertising by requiring broadcasters, newspapers, magazines, etc. to put aside bandwidth or other space or accommodation to allow any and all candidates to communicate with their electorate with equal time and space allotted to every candidate.(see 29.9) Paid political advertising of any kind is not allowed. The government shall run appropriate web services (on secure (two factor authentication), encrypted, audit able Elections Information Server(s) (with multiple redundancy and 3rd party plus off site backup with no expiration date for either audit or historical purposes) with one domain for all election information), organized by election year, making space available to all candidates (Fed, State, County, Municipal) including, but not limited to forums, email, newsgroups, wikiâ(TM)s, podcasts of all media, video, audio, print media, commentary, allotted advertisements, town halls, interviews, debates. No personalized user information shared short of an adversarial probable cause hearing. Media shall be free to cover the various stages though equal time is in force, and since they may not accept any paid political advertising, may freely endorse. Candidates may use other free communication options such as social media or newer technologies. All broadcast options must be opt-in. Yard-signs, bumper stickers, buttons etc. may be personally made by individuals using download-able graphics.
29.2. Data shall be divided between open public domain, and private. Private is anything that might disclose any personal information, location (other than voting district), or any other way to identify an individual and must be absolutely person identifiable. Public facing information and data analysis shall be open source and public domain. Data analysis shall include an algorithm for ranking overall sentiment toward issues, agendas, and/or candidates, and forecast results for accumulated agendas (all 535 congressional agenda
The biggest thing that strikes me about this whole situation is that everyone is angry but they're the only ones actually doing something about it. Seeing also-angry bystanders criticise the protesters because they're (a) hairy (b) drum-playing (c) other ad-hominem issue is sad, pathetic and unfortunately not at all unusual.
Yes, their aims are many, but the issues are many and one doesn't have to have a pithy easily-digested campaign slogan to express dissatisfaction with the status quo.
So many people on /. bitch and moan about the government and corruption but most of you wouldn't get off your ass for a second to stand up for your beliefs. I sure as hell have a lot more respect for those people being actually counted on Wall St (and the satellite protests) than I do for those on /. who throw virtual stones from the cover of Internet anonymity.