Slashdot Mirror


Apple's Siri As Revolutionary As the Mac?

hype7 writes "The Harvard Business Review is running an article on Siri, the speech recognition technology inside the new iPhone. They make the case that Siri's use of artificial intelligence and speech recognition is going to change the way we interact with machines. From the article: 'The advantage of using speech over other interaction paradigms is that we have honed its use over thousands of years. It is entirely natural for us to talk to one another. Talking is one of the first things we learn how to do as children. It's second nature for us to ask a colleague or a friend a question and for them to answer the same way. Being able to talk to a phone like it's a personal assistant is something that people are going to get very used to, very quickly. It's a much more natural approach than using a mouse on a desktop. And I highly doubt the impact is going to stop at phones.'"

112 of 692 comments (clear)

  1. Not only... by wsxyz · · Score: 3, Funny

    Not only as revolutionary... It's also just as magical!

  2. Purely out of curiosity by jimicus · · Score: 2

    I've heard from a number of Android users that Android also has voice & language recognition - can anyone comment how it works compared to how Siri's been pushed and demoed?

    1. Re:Purely out of curiosity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Voice Actions, it works exactly the same. Maps, Nav, post updates to social, schedules reminders/ calendars. send email / sms. Its been there since the start of 2.3
      Except it doesn't have a fancy interface . it just shows a big microphone icon on the screen and lights up green when you talk

    2. Re:Purely out of curiosity by ustolemyname · · Score: 4, Informative

      Works fine as a speech to text engine, but doesn't infer what you want done from what you said.

      The real issue with it is how much of a dork you look like talking to your phone.

    3. Re:Purely out of curiosity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Android's 'Voice Actions' can only understand a predefined set of phrases and keywords. Siri can understand very natural language, and even follow context. Siri is far more advanced. But Google has some of the best engineers on the planet. A nice upgrade for Voice Actions will likely come sooner than later.

    4. Re:Purely out of curiosity by milbournosphere · · Score: 3, Informative
      I believe the difference is that Siri incorporates natural language recognition, whereas Android does not. On my Android phone, I still have to navigate to the Navigation app and then tell it where i'm going. With Siri, I imagine that one would simply say 'take me to in-n-out.' It's the same thing with messaging; I need to go to the app, and then press the little mic button. I imagine that one simply has to say 'message so-and-so' with Siri.

      This is what makes Siri revolutionary in my book. Yeah, it's been out in app form for a while now, but this is the first platform to really show off this kind of natural language recognition.

    5. Re:Purely out of curiosity by obarthelemy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      PCs have had it for ages too, I tried it 10 years ago... Felt like a dork (and that was all on my lonesome in my room, not in a crowded street), was slower than typing (on a keyboard though, not a touchscreen), and misunderstood me enough to make it a pain.

      It's indeed also on my Android phone, never cared until Siri, tried it out when it seemed to be the next magical thing... dropped it as fast as the first time around.

      From what I've read, Siri might be more accurate and more intelligent, but my guess is, not enough to override the basic dorkiness and inaccuracy of a speech interface.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    6. Re:Purely out of curiosity by hondo77 · · Score: 5, Funny

      The real issue with it is how much of a dork you look like talking to your phone.

      Back in the olden days, talking into your phone was all you could do with it.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    7. Re:Purely out of curiosity by inputdev · · Score: 2

      I've been using Android with voice commands, and have been surprised with how well it works, I much prefer it to the virtual keys. It has issues when there is bad internet connectivity, and as you would expect in very noisy environments, although, to be fair, it does better than I had expected in most noise.
      I noticed someone else say that it doesn't interpret what you want it to do, and that is only partially true, there are several commands, like "text john I'll be five minutes late" and it completely fills out the fields. But the most common is the "navigate to pizza", which launches the navigation app and starts providing turn by turn navigation without any more presses. I refuse to ever navigate a touchscreen for getting somewhere in the car again.
      Equally useful is the fact that no matter what it interprets, it automatically searches google, which is quite often the first thing I do with text now anyway.

    8. Re:Purely out of curiosity by James+Carnley · · Score: 5, Informative

      You don't have to manually launch anything.

      Just start voice search and say "Navigate to McDonalds" and it will launch your navigation app and plot a course to McDonalds for you.

      This also works with your other example: "Text Bob Dole Hey man" will launch your messaging app and put "Hey man" in the message.

      It's pretty neat once you start using it a lot.

    9. Re:Purely out of curiosity by chronoglass · · Score: 2

      there is the major difference, natural speech.
      I think it'll really become useful once it all becomes standard, and is "always listening".

      at present on my android phone I have to go to search, then hit the mic, and remember the phrase that does the right action.
      I use the hell out of "navigate to"
      I occasionally use "note to self"
      rarely I use the "call"
      and the "message to " is a bit.. er, unruly
      and I don't honestly remember any of the other ones.

      while I am happy to see it getting better, I would prefer to remove the step of activating it with a button, I'd also like to remove the required name of siri.. let me call it jeeves.. or zombie minion!

      "Zombie minion! get me some hamburgers"
      "did you mean in-n-out master"
      "why yes.. yes I did"
      "turn left.. arrrrrggggg"

    10. Re:Purely out of curiosity by Taagehornet · · Score: 5, Funny

      Android speech-to-text actually works pretty well. I'm using it now to write this and I find bark bark shaddup I find that it bark bark shut up damnit bark bark don't make me come down there I find that bark bark okay that's it I'm coming down there argh crash thud bark bark bark bark bark bark

      Shamelessly stolen

    11. Re:Purely out of curiosity by mosb1000 · · Score: 2

      Watch the video. If it really works like it does in the video, we're talking about a whole new speech recognition experience. Once it's out, you can bet the Apple store will be filled with people putting it to the test.

    12. Re:Purely out of curiosity by sexconker · · Score: 5, Funny

      Android speech-to-text actually works pretty well. I'm using it now to write this and I find bark bark shaddup I find that it bark bark shut up damnit bark bark don't make me come down there I find that bark bark okay that's it I'm coming down there argh crash thud bark bark bark bark bark bark

      Troubles with the wife?

    13. Re:Purely out of curiosity by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The real issue with it is how much of a dork you look like talking to your phone.

      Once upon a time, before they became internet terminals, everybody talked into their phone. I hadn't realised it had become so rare!

      You don't have to press the home button and talk into it like a walkie-talkie you know. The proximity sensor will switch Siri on if you put the iPhone to the side of your head, if you're not making a phone call. And you can also operate it via the handsfree kit.

    14. Re:Purely out of curiosity by savuporo · · Score: 4, Funny

      there is the major difference, natural speech. I think it'll really become useful once it all becomes standard, and is "always listening".

      That would be awesome .. imagine if your cloud collected web services could always access and record everything that happens around you, without pushing a single button.. wouldnt that make facebooks and google plusses even more awesome .. i mean who needs browser tracking cookies if you have access to microphone ..

      --
      http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slashdot.org Errors found while checking this document as HTML5!
    15. Re:Purely out of curiosity by dragonhunter21 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Looked basically the same, but with some extra commands added that, while they look sexy on the marketing blurb, I would never use. That said, I use the shit out of Voice Actions on Android, and I love them to death. Still, Siri isn't going to be the killer app that pulls me over to the iPhone side.

      --
      Sent from my CR-48
    16. Re:Purely out of curiosity by dragonhunter21 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Even better, if you press and hold the search button, it'll automatically start voice actions. I don't think I've sent but five typed text messages since I started using it.

      --
      Sent from my CR-48
    17. Re:Purely out of curiosity by Tharsman · · Score: 3, Funny

      The real issue with it is how much of a dork you look like talking to your phone.

      Back in the olden days, talking into your phone was all you could do with it.

      Thats so 2007.

    18. Re:Purely out of curiosity by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I had computer graphics on my computer back in 1982. So these modern day "consoles" can't be anything special, eh?

      Every product with speech recognition is not the same, just as every product with graphics is not the same.

      And whilst people might feel dorks talking to a desktop, they're very used to holding a phone up to the side of their face and speaking into it. It's not seemed like a bizarre occupation for many decades.

    19. Re:Purely out of curiosity by hahn · · Score: 4, Funny

      Works fine as a speech to text engine, but doesn't infer what you want done from what you said. The real issue with it is how much of a dork you look like talking to your phone.

      Yeah, it's hard to believe people actually talk into a phone...

      --
      "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
    20. Re:Purely out of curiosity by Drakino · · Score: 5, Informative

      (Reply written before most other posts, was distracted by work, going to post anyhow even with some now redundant info. Hope it helps.)

      Android's voice recognition is mostly a search input box, driven by voice instead of text. It's pretty clever how Google built the system, they used voice input from the old GOOG411 number to help adapt it to different languages and accents. For the most part though, it will parse what you say and do the equivalent of "I'm Feeling Lucky" on google.com.

      It also does dictation for typing in notes, or other apps. Basically anywhere the keyboard will appear, voice can be used as a dictation input.

      Siri is a step beyond what Google offers, due to the conversational style of input vs just basic voice commands/dictation. You can say "Joanne Moore is my mother" to Siri once. Later, saying "Text Mom that I'll be late for dinner", and Siri remembers mom = Joanne Moore, or whoever. This just scratches the surface, the other power of Siri is the capability to understand questions like "Do I need a raincoat today?". It turns that into a search of the weather at the current location, scanning the days forecast for the possibility of rain. A followup of "what about Saturday?" would cause Siri to recognize this is a followup request, and it would link it to the previous weather query. The logic is in the Siri system, not in a search engine being queried. Minor detail, and either approach can work.

      Google can improve their services on Android by improving what Google.com does, and this benefitting web users as well. For Apple, they have to decide what services to tie into. Many queries in Siri are farmed out to Wolfram Alpha. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siri_(software) has more info on other services it integrates with to try and answer questions. If none of those work, it defaults to running a web search similar to Android.

    21. Re:Purely out of curiosity by Hatta · · Score: 2

      Just start voice search and say "Navigate to McDonalds" and it will launch your navigation app and plot a course to McDonalds for you.

      Nifty. How good is it? Could you say "Navigate to McDonalds or Burger King", and have it find either? Or could you say "Navigate to Fast Food but not McDonalds" and get anything but McDonalds?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    22. Re:Purely out of curiosity by timeOday · · Score: 5, Informative

      The real issue with it is how much of a dork you look like talking to your phone.

      According to the writeup on wired (reprinted at cnn), they already addressed that problem by having you hold the phone to your ear when talking to it (instead of at arms length as when typing into it) to make it look normal.

      (I would imagine this was also done to improve the quality of speech recognition by putting the microphone closer to your mouth.)

    23. Re:Purely out of curiosity by djdavetrouble · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'll never forget the day when people walking around gesturing and talking to the air apparently stopped being crazy behavior and began to be perfectly acceptable behavior. It was sometime during 1999, right before the internet bubble burst. I miss those days. Now people don't look up from their smart phones to do the things they need to do, such as cross the street, disembark an elevator, talk to their families, etc.....

      --
      music lover since 1969
    24. Re:Purely out of curiosity by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

      how much of a dork you look like talking to your phone

      Yeah what kind of weirdo would talk into a telephone?

    25. Re:Purely out of curiosity by c++0xFF · · Score: 2

      Others are mocking you, but I think there's an interesting difference between talking into your phone and talking to your phone.

      When I've seen people try to use speech recognition on their phones, it's obvious which one they're doing. And they really do look like dorks. The real advance will be when telling your phone what you want to do is as smooth and as fluid as talking to an assistant on the other end of the phone line.

      Maybe Siri has done that?

    26. Re:Purely out of curiosity by Solandri · · Score: 2

      Correct. Speech recognition has been around since the 1990s. The more sophisticated natural language processing is what's new here. I wouldn't go so far to call it revolutionary yet. It's a possible solution to the "the phone is too frikkin small to use icons/menus" problem. One characteristic of this problem is that on phones, your apps are scattered across multiple pages which you must scroll through to find the one you want. That's not so much the case on the desktop where you have a lot more screen real estate and finer control with the mouse.

      Whether it turns out to a revolutionary solution to this problem remains to be seen. It could be, or it could be a flash in the pan (typing and gesturing does not disturb others the way talking does), or most likely it'll fall somewhere in the middle and find use in certain niche areas without displacing the current icon/menu systems. That's what happened to the initial voice recognition systems. At first people were all excited about them because they could act as a drop-in replacement for the command line, menus, etc. In the end they ended up filling the niche roles of word processor dictation, and automatically routing phone calls at call-in support offices.

      It works well for hands-free and display-less operation. i.e. the traditional telephone functions plus some menu navigation functionality. But many if not most new smartphone apps involve interacting with graphics like a map or photo. In those cases, pointing, dragging, and gesturing is generally far superior. "Enhance 224 to 176. Enhance, stop. Move in, stop. Pull out, track right, stop. Center in, pull back. Stop. Track 45 right. Stop. Center and stop. Enhance 34 to 36. Pan right and pull back. Stop. Enhance 34 to 46. Pull back. Wait a minute, go right, stop. Enhance 57 to 19. Track 45 left. Stop. Enhance 15 to 23." is a really inefficient and noisy way to navigate around a photo.

    27. Re:Purely out of curiosity by leenks · · Score: 2

      Around 1999/2000 I remember seeing a guy talking on his phone very loudly about some deal he was handling, while walking out of a major London tube station. Then his phone rang and he couldn't figure out how to answer it. Many people laughed quite loudly.

    28. Re:Purely out of curiosity by iamhassi · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh boy, some people never learn. Android voice functions is literary the same things that has been in the archaic nokia phones from back in the day.

      Voice Actions for Android is almost identical to Siri (another example). The iPhone actually had Siri before Voice Actions came out for Android, only difference is now Siri is built into the 4S and Apple bought Siri and removed it from the App Store and made it only for the 4S :( That's a pretty jerk thing for apple to do

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    29. Re:Purely out of curiosity by grangerg · · Score: 2

      Sorry, but Android has been doing that already for a while now. Isn't there anything better that Siri can do? So far, it sounds exactly like what I've had on my G2 for about a year now (press the Search button, start talking...). For example, I'd expect you can finally "text" by talking on your iPhone, now. Now, if it didn't require a data connection, *that* would be awesome. It feels like a let-down to have a feature that requires a data connection.

    30. Re:Purely out of curiosity by assassinator42 · · Score: 2

      I just tried, it can't post updates to social networks or set up reminders/appointments. And the voice recognition still isn't that great. Hopefully this motivates Google to improve this.
      Also, Siri has access to Wolfram Alpha, which has some natural language abilities that Google lacks.

    31. Re:Purely out of curiosity by aristotle-dude · · Score: 3, Informative

      Siri can understand very natural language

      Did you seriously fall for that? All this means is that they have multiple predefined phrases that mean the same thing. Siri is *not* new! At all! Ignoring the fact that it was an app that Apple acquired, there are nearly identical programs for both iOS and Android. All they did was integrate it a bit more with the OS, and removed the app from the app store, forcing people to upgrade to the 4S if they want to use it, even though previous hardware is perfectly capable. The other apps speak back, at least one can access Wolfram Alpha, and do everything I've seen Siri do.

      Siri does not work based on multiple predefined phrases. Siri actually understands the meaning of words in a given context and the word order does not matter either. You can talk naturally without specific vocabulary or even like Master Yoda and Siri will likely infer the meaning of what you are asking it based on based on an inferred context. That is where the AI comes in.

      What is available on Android is barely beyond voice control that shipped with the display-less iPod shuffles which did work based on a combination of predefined phrases and voice recognition and what currently ships on the iPhones prior to the iPhone 4S. Google just integrated a few more services but they still rely on a strict syntax.

      You really don't have to take my word for it though, go try it out for yourself after the launch or simply "google" it for youtube videos with first looks/reviews of siri on the iPhone 4S.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    32. Re:Purely out of curiosity by DCFusor · · Score: 2

      No, the real issue is now we're training already-smug dorks to give out unconditional orders reflexively and expect them to be followed. How long before they start expecting that to work with humans?

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    33. Re:Purely out of curiosity by Namarrgon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I asked Voice Actions, "Who would win - Superman or Batman?". It answered (out loud), "Superman, because he has super strength, and Batman only has fancy gadgets and hand-to-hand combat."

      Its thoughts on pirates vs ninjas were also enlightening and extensive. And it'll even read you a poem, if you ask for one.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
  3. So it'll work for 90% of the population? by ackthpt · · Score: 2

    Always the problem with engineering something like Speech Recognition is you'll have to train people to enunciate correctly - though with Siri the opposite may become true, where the LOL, WTF, UR, etc. generation adopt an entirely new dialect to communicate with their devices.

    Thank goodness, for the remaining 10% we'll still have the comedy of a person standing on a street corner yelling at their iPhone. "No! Phone home! ET want PHONE HOME! No! Not Rome! PHONE HOME!!"

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  4. Hype much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple fans can take comfort from this evidence that while Steve Jobs may no longer be with us in the flesh, he lives on in the hearts of journalists. And the reality distortion field is still fully operational.

  5. Inside? by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is it actually inside, or is it like dragon, google, et al where the processing is done in "the cloud"? I'm interested in a non-network solution.

    1. Re:Inside? by MBoffin · · Score: 5, Informative

      The phone does it.

      Incorrect. It's done in the cloud, just like Android's implementation. You need a data connection for it to work. Apple stated this in the introductory announcement.

    2. Re:Inside? by imsabbel · · Score: 2

      I guess I am the only one seeing potential privacy issues there.

      (of a phone that sends constant audio surveilance of its surrounding to the creator)

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    3. Re:Inside? by scot4875 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Heh, you bought that one hook, line, and sinker too. The reason why it's only available on the 4S is because they want to sell 4Ses.

      "Encode" the message? It's a freaking blob of audio data. The worst that would need to be done is compression. My dinky little HTC Hero had no problem passing audio data back to the server farm for processing, I'm sure the suddenly-woefully-inadequate iPhone 4 could handle it just fine too.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
  6. Re:Except not? by drx · · Score: 2

    Isn't it like a speech input for an Infocom game?

    Some of these games also were able to understand pronouns like "it", "him", "there" ...

  7. Mr Scott will be pleased by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

    But can you actually talk into the mouse?

  8. Re:Except not? by jo_ham · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Perhaps, but isn't that the point?

    Every so often someone comes along trying to reinvent the wheel on computer interfaces, and it usually falls flat - like the "arms up in the air Minority Report UI", or 3D UIs etc.

    Taking a bunch of features that people use all the time and combining it into a system that you can interact with quickly and easily when you're not "actively using" your device might be exactly what we need.

    Being able to pick up your phone and say "remind me to call mom when I get home" and then put it right back down and have the phone be able to work out what you want is a great idea. It takes you about 5 seconds and then you can go back to whatever you were doing.

    I don't think we'll be using it like Star Trek just yet as the main way we interact with computers, but for simple things like that I think it could be awesome (dare I say, "magical (TM)").

    As many people will point out here, this is not Apple's original technology, they weren't the first to do it, there will be use cases where it won't work, you can do it much more cheaply and non-walled-garden-y with a rooted Nexus GTi Turbo running cyanogen, Apple steals everything, they're an evil empire tracking your every move and other such tiresome memes etc etc, but Siri is one of the first attempts to really pull this sort of thing together cohesively. Whether it is successful or not, who can say yet? It's certainly interesting and I expect we'll see it on many other smartphones in a similar guise - it's not like the technology is unique.

  9. Re:speech recognition is noisy. by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 2

    Yeah, I can see how this is going to make my life easier:

    "page up, page up, down, down, down, shift o, slash splat quot FIXME -- who wrote this shit ques ques splat slash quot CR escape"

  10. Re:Bah by Above · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A good touch typer can accurately do 60 wpm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing). I've seen ones that can come close to 100 wpm with relatively few errors, at least in short bursts.

    Typical speech rates are 140-200 wpm, depending on the subject and the speakers mood (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005018.html). Pretty much everyone can speak and comprehend 300 wpm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute), and some people can speak as high has 500 wpm. You can read around 300 wpm.

    I suspect the reality is you type at somewhere between 25-50% of the speed you can talk, and that's for ordinary words. Throw in special characters that require you to do complex keystrokes and your typing will tank, but your speech will not. For instance, check your words per minute typing something like this vrs reading it (assuming you have a standard US keyboard).

        Please tell Mr Muños that it is £200 or ¥20,000; and Mr Schröder would like a response immediately.

    I bet you can say that as fast as any other sentence, but typing it will require you to look up a character or two unless you type international stuff a lot.

  11. Re:speech recognition is noisy. by CdXiminez · · Score: 2

    Daily I wish people would indeed stop doing this.

  12. Re:Office Use? by maccodemonkey · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Can you honestly see this being used in an office environment?"

    You're right. Nobody ever talks into phones in an office. /s

  13. Re:Office Use? by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Funny

    Of course. Half the point of Apple's gadgets seem to be to draw attention to them all the fucking time. Case in point: the story above.

    Totally!

    Posted from my iPhone

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  14. Ben there done that by strangeattraction · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Heard a technology interview on NPR this morning. It was very funny. They kept asking Siri questions it could not answer. Great entertainment. Actually saw the technology a couple of years ago at the Semantic Web in San Jose. It was very funny then too. The problem I have and have always had with this type of thing (hand writing rec, voice rec etc) is that when it gets it right you are amazed when it gets it wrong you are mad. If I type character in my computer by keyboard and the wrong thing shows up on the screen it is my fault. When the computer recognizes the wrong characters it is the machines fault. We expect better behavior from our machines than we do from ourselves.

  15. Re:Office Use? by 0123456 · · Score: 2

    Now you just think what you want to do, and it will be done.

    No need for that. In the utopia of Jobsism, in a few years your iThings will not need a control interface because they'll just tell you what to think.

  16. Re:Bah by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

    There is a difference in text-to-speech which has been around forever and natural speech recognition and contextual responses. For example, you can say "Call Susan mobile." That's not new. But that's not Siri. The promise to Siri is: "Call my sister. Which sister and which phone? Susan. Her mobile. [Dialing]" Apple video makes it look like Siri is much more advanced than your 2000 Nokia. At least that's the promise. Whether it lives up to the expectation, we'll see after tomorrow when the first people start using it.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  17. Re:MIght as well be by tumnasgt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You had me until the second to last paragraph. Macs wouldn't evolve nearly as fast if there wasn't Windows (and to some extent, Linux) adding new stuff. With a lot of the cool things Apple do, they aren't the one to first do something, they are the first to do it in a way that appeals to the mainstream. Look at smartphones, Windows Mobile phones were around way before the iPhone, but they were never popular in the mainstream because they didn't have the "cool factor". And if it weren't for webOS and Android, iOS would quite possibly still have the crap notifications system that just got replaced with iOS 5.

    So, yes, Apple are great at what they do, but to say that they would be where they are without the competition is ridiculous.

  18. Re:Bah by mswhippingboy · · Score: 3, Funny
    Except what SIRI will transcribe is:

    Pistol missed your moon Otis 200 bouncer 20,010 and mistress rotor would like a responsibility.

    --
    Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
  19. Based on *what*? by RobinEggs · · Score: 2

    The guy hasn't even used it yet and he's promising it will change the world?

    The article makes no mention of having tested or even *seen* a Siri-equipped iPhone, yet he claims it will revolutionize the way we interact with electronics just as dramatically as the mouse changed the personal computing experience.

    My favorite example: "Siri, is there any football on right now? When is my team next playing? Could you record it for me?" He's just talking about the same voice-activated, computer-controlled house they've been promising us since 1950. How does he know that yet another random voice recognition program will suddenly make it possible?

    What a bunch of empty drivel.

  20. Almost is always listening by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    I think it'll really become useful once it all becomes standard, and is "always listening".

    One thing I read is that Siri is activated automatically simply by holding the phone to your head as though you were making a call.. that's probably about as close to always listening as we will get for a while, or even would want to get... that alone makes it seem more useful to me.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Almost is always listening by Belial6 · · Score: 2

      That seems like a recipe for disaster when it detects you leg as your head and pocket dials the wrong person at the wrong time. Maybe Apple has that figured out. I would just worry that their way of figuring it out is to tell you "You're holding it wrong."(TM)

  21. Wildfire did that. by Animats · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Listen to this Wildfire demo. 1990s technology. Used by Orange Mobile. Used a lot of compute power for the 1990s. Cost about $5/day originally; became cheaper by 2005 or so. Bought by Microsoft. Run into the ground. Sold off to a small company, Virtuosity. Still available.

    Way ahead of its time.

  22. Revolutionary as the Mac? by Darinbob · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Mac was not really that revolutionary. However it did greatly popularize an existing revolution in graphical user interfaces started by Xerox PARC.

    1. Re:Revolutionary as the Mac? by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure sure, I've seen the early Xerox screenshots and they had scroll bars and were relatively advanced to what you see on the Lisa and early Macs. And PARC is usually credited with the pioneering the desktop metaphor. Jobs visited PARC in 1979, and yet in Smalltak-80 version 1 you see a full featured GUI (granted oriented to the programmer and not general public), and the Xerox Star in 1981 was very advanced with desktop icons and scrollbars (though not a market success due to cost).

      Apple did do a lot, but there was a very large amount of parallel development in the high end workstation market where these sorts of ideas were evolving while the early Macs didn't change a lot of many years. There was cross pollination of course but your X Window system is more directly descended from these workstations which descended from the early Alto.

    2. Re:Revolutionary as the Mac? by Animats · · Score: 2

      That it did, but until the Mac came out, did you honestly remember reading anything at all about what they were doing at PARC back then?

      There was a whole industry selling UNIX workstations with GUIs years before the Mac cam out. Apollo, Sun, Three Rivers, etc. They were quite nice, but cost upwards of $10K. The original Mac was a crappy imitation of those, with one floppy drive and no hard drive. Having used both, I wasn't impressed with the original Macintosh. And, in fact, it was a commercial flop. Not until the product line acquired a hard drive and 512K of memory did it cease to suck.

      The Apple Lisa was actually a rather nice machine, but not only did it cost about $10K, Apple had built their own hard drive for it. The LisaFile was both slow and unreliable. Apple quickly exited the hard drive business.

  23. Re:speech recognition is noisy. by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just because you can't eat soup with a fork doesn't make a fork a bad eating implement.

    Speech recognition isn't for saying the name of keystrokes whilst editing a document. You use a keyboard for that. It's not for drag and drop tasks, you use a mouse or trackpad for that (keyboards suck at dragging and dropping). It's for requesting the kind of things you might as ask of a secretary. Including dictation, calendar, to-dos, simple enquiries etc.

    A toolbox doesn't have only one tool, it has many. Siri is another way to interact with an iPhone - it not intended to replace the other ways, but add another option to them.

  24. Re:Bah by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

    I can type almost as fast as i can talk

    Not on a phone you can't.

  25. Re:Bah by vux984 · · Score: 2

    I bet you can say that as fast as any other sentence, but typing it will require you to look up a character or two unless you type international stuff a lot.

    Now, dictate a letter. You think anything short of a human being currently could possibly punctuate it correctly, filter out any thing that wasn't intended for the letter...

    The reason typing is faster than dictation is that I can type exactly what I want. And if I decide to revise it the user interface is ideal for that. Copy/paste, select, delete... try doing that with something dictated.

    Your particular example is pretty cherry picked too...

    "Jim, this is nice," I says. "I wouldn't want to be nowhere else but here. Pass me along another hunk of fish and some hot corn-bread."

    "Well, you wouldn't a ben here 'f it hadn't a ben for Jim. You'd a ben down dah in de woods widout any dinner, en gittn' mos' drownded, too; dat you would, honey. Chickens knows when it's gwyne to rain, en so do de birds, chile."

    Care to dictate that faster than I can type it and expect anyone to get the intended spelling, and punctuation in the ballpark? Cherry picking goes both ways.

  26. Re:MIght as well be by Cinder6 · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Losing ground" = higher sales year-over-year? Record sales to the tune of 1,000,000 units preordered in one day for the 4S? Android has more market share, but that doesn't mean that Apple is hurting. At all. The market is growing, and both Android and Apple are doing well.

    --
    If you can't convince them, convict them.
  27. Re:MIght as well be by Karlt1 · · Score: 2

    The iPhone is the first Apple product that could be said to appeal to the mainstream, and it is already losing ground there.

    You have heard of the iPod haven't you? How is Apple "losing ground", with 66% of the worldwide industry profits in cell phones?

  28. Common mistake by Alomex · · Score: 2

    The article makes the common mistake of assuming that since language is optimized for human-to-human communication then it is a preferable form of communication between humans and other entities.

    For starters human-to-human communication has a huge amount of redundancy. We repeat, reinforce, gesture with our hands and gesticulate with our faces to make sure our message is coming across. Mr. Spock wouldn't need all of that repetition, and neither does the computer.

    You don't want to have to tell to the car "can you please apply the brakes now?" it is much easier, and yes, more natural to simply press a button or step on the brake pedal.

    You don't believe me still? Armies all over the world establish a special communication protocol that purposely moves away from natural language communication with all its ambiguities to a command/control sparse language with just the right amount of redundancy to deal with noisy communications.

    Captain: "Right full rudder, degree down angle."
    Pilot: "Right full rudder, degree down angle, sir"
         

  29. Think back by joh · · Score: 2

    How many people back then actually thought the Mac (or the GUI) would change computing? Well, it certainly did, but for quite a while very many people (among them most of the computer geeks) thought it was an inferior, silly way to deal with computers.

    I think in the long run maybe it won't be Siri as such that will be revolutionary, but natural language recognition of course will change things. Not by controlling a computer as such (this would be as saying that a GUI would revolutionize entering CLI commands by clicking keys on an on-screen keyboard) but by actually interacting with data and data processing resources and networks out there without consciously interacting with a computer at all. The computer will be realized fully only when you aren't aware at all that you're actually using a computer.

    You don't need to praise Apple for what they're doing. I'm just happy that ANYONE has the balls to introduce such technology, even in its humble beginnings, to the masses.

    If you're interested in what Siri can understand and act on: http://www.tuaw.com/2011/10/05/iphone-4s-what-can-you-say-to-siri/

    BTW, Siri also kicks in if you just hold the iPhone to your ear without being in a call (via the proximity sensor), which makes using it not as awkward as many seem to think.

  30. Apple TV by hahn · · Score: 2

    Does anyone else also see this as the potential foundation for the future often-rumored Apple TV? Imagine a TV set that doesn't require a remote control (or perhaps using the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad). All you need to do is talk to it...
    "Record all new episodes of Family Guy."
    "Show a slideshow of my photos from January of this year."
    "What games are on ESPN today?"
    "Turn on when Game of Thrones is on."
    "When is the next NFL game?"
    "Play my Coldplay channel on Pandora"

    --
    "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
  31. Re:MIght as well be by zieroh · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you are a hacker, want power, or are smart, Apple makes mediocre products.

    (What do I mean? The command line, emacs, etc.)

    Exactly. If only someone could merge a *nix box (with niceties like the command line and emacs and such) with good hardware and a nice design aesthetic.

    That would be awesome.

    --
    People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
  32. Re:MIght as well be by enigmatichmachine · · Score: 2, Interesting

    are you kidding?!?

    Mac computers are the closest thing to Linux you're going to get off the shelf.

    If you're really smart, you want as little friction between you and doing what you want as possible. get a Imac with a 27" screen, shipped to your door and working out of the box.

    That said, I hate the OSX UI, but if you're really looking for a powerful command line out of the box, OSx is the way to go.

    --
    -and occasionaly a giant moose.
  33. It's more than just marketing by jamrock · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's more than just marketing, as so many here fail to realize. Marketing may entice you to buy a company's products or services, but it won't keep you buying from that company if you think their offerings suck. They actually have to live up to the marketing. Apple products have very high user satisfaction ratings, and marketing alone can't account for that.

    1. Re:It's more than just marketing by hawguy · · Score: 2

      Yeah case in point is the magnetic power connector on macbooks. Such a beautiful, robust thing. My new eeepc has a tiny cylindrical power plug, similar to those on small nokia phones. I am sure it will break within the next year.

      Don't be so sure that it's going to break -- my 2.5 year old eeepc netbook with its tiny cylindrical connector is still working fine - my first magsafe adapter lasted about 9 months before the cable started to fray where it enters the connector and it stopped working. 6 months with my "new" adapter and it looks like it's going to suffer a similar fate.

      The Asus Netbook gets plugged/unplugged much more often since I usually take the Netbook with me.

    2. Re:It's more than just marketing by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Yeah, though sometimes I think Apple has it easier because they don't promote technical excellency as their strength. Like for example the iPhone antenna problems, the market mostly shrugged and kept using iPhones because they're intuitive and people figure out how to use them. If on the other hand you bought your phone because it supports triband dual UTMS 4G or whatever, then the antenna not working properly is like disaster. Yes, the 4GS has faster CPU, faster graphics, improved camera and doubled some transfer speed but the buzz, what I hear everybody is talking about is Siri. As long as that is working, I think they'd be willing to forgive any lesser technical oversights.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:It's more than just marketing by jamrock · · Score: 2

      Insightful comment, but that's only half the story, and despite what you might think, they don't have it easier. The holy grail for Apple is to make the hardware disappear completely, leaving the user focused on the task at hand, not the care and feeding of the device. They've come pretty close with the iPad, but it's really damned hard to mask complexity with simplicity. For the last few years Apple has suborned the technical aspects of their products to what ordinary folks can actually do with them. Note that they don't talk about the speeds of the CPU's in iOS devices or how much RAM they have, and the message of their ads is getting things done with their devices. This is what appeals to the majority of consumers, and conversely what drives tech-minded folks up the wall. Contrast iPhone ads with Droid ads. The Apple ads show people listening to music, having Face Time chats ith their grandkids, taking pics at the beach etc, while the Droid ads come across like trailers for "Tron". It's amazing that Motorola doesn't grasp that the ads only appeal to a very narrow segment of their target market, the techies. They hobbled their horse at the starting gate.

      Everyone is talking about Siri, not because it's amazing technology, which it is, but because this amazing technology is finally accessible to ordinary folks, not just researchers in an engineering lab. This knack of taking existing tech and presenting it to consumers in a package a majority of people find useful is Apple's strength. The mouse and GUI, MP3 players, touchscreens, voice recognition etc all existed prior to Apple taking them mainstream. Apple made a conscious decision to ignore the technorati in favor of a vastly larger market, and their bets have paid off big time.

      And frankly, I think much of the Apple hatred among tech enthusiasts is sparked for this very reason. Apple makes some really cool toys, but they've made it as plain as day that they're not interested in catering to gadget enthusiasts, and they're sealed and locked down to make them as reliable as possible for Joe Sixpack. It's plain that much of the disappointment evinced over the iPhone 4S was from enthusiasts and analysts expecting something new and shiny, but got what they thought was a warmed over iPhone 4. Nothing could be further from the truth. The iPhone 4S only shares the appearance of it's predecessor, but it's a new device with expanded capabilities. It's like complaining that they're disappointed with Boeing's new 747-8 Intercontinental because it looks almost exactly like a first generation 747-100, despite the fact that it's completely re-engineered, with dramatically better performance, electronics, systems, engines etc.

    4. Re:It's more than just marketing by itsdapead · · Score: 2

      Anecdotal evidence aside, and since IANAE(ngineer), serious question: Wouldn't unintended uses and knock-on effects due to design innovations be something you would study and build around?

      Well, yes, that's probably why Apple replaced the original design (small, slippery rectangular body with thin "in line" cable which invited people to yank it out by the cord against the full force of the magnet) with the current "right angle" design, which has a longer, cylindrical body that is easier to grip and gives you some leverage to "twist" the magnets apart.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  34. Indeed, and for a LONG TIME. by brunes69 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I am getting really sick of all the Siri hyperbole. Here are a few facts for people:

    - Siri itself has been around for nearly two years. It was a standalone app available for a long time until Apple purchased the company and pulled it from the app store.

    - Android has had voice recognition built into it that knows 99% of the commands Siri does since at least 2010 (Froyo), and I believe even before that.

    - There is at least one third party company / app (Vlingo) which supports all the commands Siri does *AND MANY MORE*, and is available for ALL PLATFORMS, inclufing Android, Blackberry, iPhones.

    Basically - Siri is neat, but it is NOT new, and it is NOT revolutionary. Calling Siri revolutionary is like calling a touchscreen revolutionary at this point in the game.

    1. Re:Indeed, and for a LONG TIME. by Above · · Score: 2

      Apple pretty much is never the first company to do something.

      What Apple is famous for (in recent times) is being the first to do something _well_. They don't ride the bleeding edge, but rather take the bleeding edge tech and polish and hone it until they have something an average Joe would use.

      The world hasn't had enough time with iOS 5 Siri yet. I expect it will be much more polished than anything you mention, but it's simply too soon to tell. Also, I found it telling Apple calls this "Beta" technology which is rather rare for them. That tells me they expect rapid, and significant improvements. That level of attention could make this a much better product very quickly.

    2. Re:Indeed, and for a LONG TIME. by hype7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is patently false.

      Techcrunch: Yes, others have done voice controls before — even Apple has had them baked into iOS for a few years. But most, including Apple’s previous attempt, have been awful. Others, like Google’s voice services built into Android, are decent. Siri is great.

      In the coming weeks and months, we’re going to hear: “both fill-in-the-blank-Android-phone and the iPhone 4S have voice control functionality”. But that’s like saying both Citizen Kane and BioDome are films. True on paper. Decidedly less true when you have to actually experience them.

      You really have to use it yourself to see just how great Siri actually is. Using it for the past week, I’ve done everything from getting directions, to sending emails, to sending text messages, to looking up information on WolframAlpha, to getting restaurant recommendations on Yelp, to taking notes, to setting reminders, to setting calendar appointments, to setting alarms, to searching the web. The amount of times Siri hasn’t been able to understand and execute my request is astonishingly low. I’ll say something that I’m sure Siri won’t be able to understand, and it gets it.

    3. Re:Indeed, and for a LONG TIME. by mollymoo · · Score: 4, Informative

      For a moment there I loved you. Something as good as Siri for my humble Nokia? So I downloaded Vlingo and tried it out. It is not the same thing at all. I asked it what my next appointment was - it gave me a Google search of "what is my next appointment". Fucking hilarious.

      I tried the same voice actions from the Apple trailer for Siri:

      It could write a text message to a named contact. That's actually pretty useful.

      I asked it "what's the traffic like around here" and I got... a Google search for "what's the traffic like around here".

      I said "text mom I'm going to be 30 minutes late" and I got... a Google search of what I said. I'm beginning to see a pattern here...

      I tried "is it going to be chilly in San Francisco this weekend?" and I got... you already know what I got. A fucking Google search.

      "Set my timer for 30 minutes" got me... a Google search!

      Based on that all-too-brief test Vlingo does not support all the commands Siri does, at least on my phone; it does not understand natural language very well; does not speak back at all (let alone to refine a query) and has no idea about context.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
  35. Re:Siri is not the first by about 13 years by SteveFoerster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nonsense. Apple invented the home computer, GUI, mp3 player, smartphone, tablet computer, and now voice recognition. Everyone knows that!

    --
    Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
  36. Re:MIght as well be by somersault · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, Linux computers are the closest thing to Linux you're going to get off the shelf. Netbooks, some Dells. Also if you order from PC builders you can easily get Linux out of the box with anything.

    If you're really smart, you buy your 27" monitor separately rather than built into a computer that's going to be obsolete in a couple of years.

    --
    which is totally what she said
  37. Re:MIght as well be by DougInKY · · Score: 3, Informative

    Already done. It is called a Mac. The reason I use a Mac is that it is Unix underneath. To get a command line, all I have to do is open a terminal. I can even load Emacs if I wish.

    --
    Nothing remains as constant as change.
  38. Re:Because It's Apple by jamrock · · Score: 2

    Because it's Apple it is suddenly world changing technology. Had it been anybody else it would have been: Well when Apple implements it properly...

    It's world changing when the masses can easily use it, or when it impacts everyday life. An honest-to-God working teleportation device wouldn't be world changing if it never got out of the research lab and only a few scientists used it.

  39. Re:MIght as well be by MachDelta · · Score: 4, Funny

    iWhoosh.

  40. Re:MIght as well be by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 5, Informative

    Really, is Apple going to be the only company in the world that gets human interaction? It's staggering how much they've advanced society on their own and all their profound technical achievements

    I guess that you are not aware that Apple purchased the company that made Siri and then immediately stopped the development of the Blackberry and Android versions. They basically did a Microsoft.

    Actually, that is not fair - you could say they did an Apple. The question of whether Siri is a revolutionary as the Mac is telling as both of these products were based on groundwork made by other companies. This is not to say that Apple didn't add the pizzazz to them though, but even those pizzazz elements can be found elsewhere (so many of iOS's user interface ideas that people love can be found in other people's work). Apple's great trait is that they can commercialize the ideas of others. Want another example:

    Maybe learn painting or drawing or something. Maybe start liking turtles. (remember Apple LOGO??)

    Logo was created in 1967 - 15 years before Apple Logo came on the scene. Did you think that Apple invented it?

  41. Re:MIght as well be by iamhassi · · Score: 2

    If all you value is ease of use, Apple makes fine products.

    If you are a hacker, want power, or are smart, Apple makes mediocre products.

    (What do I mean? The command line, emacs, etc.)

    My iPhone is a phone, yes I want ease of use in my phone. The iPhone is a very good phone first, and a very good smartphone second. I think that's where they really won. Before the iPhone smartphones didn't really do anything right. They weren't good at being phones and they weren't really all that "smart", and the market was fragmented. I remember having a Motorola Q smartphone running Windows Mobile 5. Nice phone for email and such (similar to blackberries) but it wasn't a touchscreen and unfortunately at the time there was no "market" for apps, you'd have to search for them online, and 9 times out of 10 the app would be for Windows Mobile 5 but it wouldn't say whether it required touchscreen or not. So I spent a lot of time downloading apps that required a touchscreen and would not work on the Motorola Q for that reason. I mostly gave up as most WM5 apps were designed for a touchscreen since there were almost no WM5 devices that didn't have a touchscreen

    iPhone came along and fixed all that. Now you have a app store and every app on that store will work on your phone.

    --
    my karma will be here long after I'm gone
  42. Re:MIght as well be by bonch · · Score: 2

    What the...? How is it losing ground? Apple is the #1 smartphone vendor and had its highest sales ever with the iPhone 4, even in spite of the phony antenna controversy. In fact, with the iPad and iPod touch counted, iOS is the #1 mobile OS by a large margin.

  43. Some truth about iProducts by jmorris42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > with 66% of the worldwide industry profits in cell phones?

    No. Maybe in smartphones, but they are a minority of the market. There is a whole world beyond the 1st world and nobody there can afford a smartphone yet. It is a volume business but there is a lot of profit there in churning out cheap phones by the container. And who the fsck cares about profits unless you are an Apple shareholder, units moved are what counts for everyone else. Developers don't give a crap how much Apple is making, they want to know how many potential customers they have to justify developing for the platform to judge how much THEY stand to make. Most users don't really care how much Apple is making in profit except if they learn Apple makes 50 juicy points it might piss some off while some fanboys like yourself seem to get off on how hard Apple is screwing you.

    And in volume of Smartphones Apple is at 18% and falling fast into their 5-10% market niche they have stayed within on the desktop since the 1980s. Give it another year and they will probably be falling fast in tablets until they hit boutique luxury good territory. Because that is what Apple is, a premium brand experience. The only reason developers still care about iOS is they (rightly it appears) assume anyone who can afford an iProduct has enough disposable income to afford to pay for lots of apps so while in absolute percentage of potential customers they may be shrinking, they rakeoff per customer is high enough to justify porting.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
    1. Re:Some truth about iProducts by Karlt1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      No. Maybe in smartphones, but they are a minority of the market. There is a whole world beyond the 1st world and nobody there can afford a smartphone yet. It is a volume business but there is a lot of profit there in churning out cheap phones by the container.

      Not smartphones, all phones....

      http://www.asymco.com/2011/07/29/apple-captured-two-thirds-of-available-mobile-phone-profits-in-q2/

      There is not much profit in $30 phones -- ask Nokia

      And who the fsck cares about profits unless you are an Apple shareholder,

      The claim was that Apple was "losing". How is a profit seeking entity losing when it makes 2 out of every $3 in the industry?

        units moved are what counts for everyone else. Developers don't give a crap how much Apple is making, they want to know how many potential customers they have to justify developing for the platform to judge how much THEY stand to make.

      Developers care about the people who are willing to buy stuff. The Apple app store generates over 17x the revenue of the Android app market.

      http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/21/861-5-percent-growth-android-puny/

      Most users don't really care how much Apple is making in profit except if they learn Apple makes 50 juicy points it might piss some off while some fanboys like yourself seem to get off on how hard Apple is screwing you.

      Well it doesn't matter what "most users care about". A statement was made, I refuted it with facts.

      I paid $200 for a $700 iPhone 4 under contract. A high-end Android user paid the same $200 for a $450 phone. We are both paying the same monthly bill. Why do I care that the carrier paid a higher subsidy to Apple than the Android manufacturer?

      And in volume of Smartphones Apple is at 18% and falling fast into their 5-10% market niche they have stayed within on the desktop since the 1980s.

      If by falling fast, you mean holding steady....

      Google just announce 190 Million Android devices sold during their quarterly report today. Apple just announced 220 million iOS devices sold during the iPhone 4S launch.

      Give it another year and they will probably be falling fast in tablets until they hit boutique luxury good territory. Because that is what Apple is, a premium brand experience. The only reason developers still care about iOS is they (rightly it appears) assume anyone who can afford an iProduct has enough disposable income to afford to pay for lots of apps so while in absolute percentage of potential customers they may be shrinking, they rakeoff per customer is high enough to justify porting.

      Didn't you just say that developers care about units sold? So which is it? Do developers care about units sold are the number of people who actually have money to buy stuff?

  44. Re:MIght as well be by narcc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Losing ground" = higher sales year-over-year?

    Why not? RIM has been growing year-over-year, though if you listen to the tech-press and slashdot commenters you'd think they were on the verge of bankruptcy.

  45. Re:Except not? by geekmux · · Score: 2

    The advent of Siri is nothing revolutionary. It is simply combining already existing apps/features with a few things added. Sure, contextual voice interaction is interesting, but it's not a revolutionary thing.

    Ah, if the damn thing actually works and works well, trust me that alone IS revolutionary.

    I remember going to computer conventions 15 years ago with people selling various voice recognition software, promising that the keyboard will be a thing of the past, and yet here we are years later still banging away on these little clicking squares, mainly because most solutions suck at being anywhere near "natural"...

  46. Re:MIght as well be by mozumder · · Score: 2

    Look at smartphones, Windows Mobile phones were around way before the iPhone, but they were never popular in the mainstream because they didn't have the "cool factor"

    Also, they sucked.

    Like I said, everyone else in the tech industry sucks at design. It's almost obscene how bad the tech industry is at design.

    If you want to be cool, you have to first not suck.

    Apple gets to be cool because they didn't horribly suck like everyone else.

  47. Re:MIght as well be by Cinder6 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'd never actually looked at the raw data before, so I decided to based on your post. And...yeah, that's pretty interesting.

    Anyone interested... http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/financials.asp?ticker=RIM:CN

    --
    If you can't convince them, convict them.
  48. Re:MIght as well be by obarthelemy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    which actually is another way to say that merging computers and their displays is dumb.

    --
    The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
  49. Re:MIght as well be by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 2

    Many Apple products and technologies were acquired: Rosetta, iTunes, Final Cut Pro, Garageband, hell even OS X itself. The magic is in how they transform the software to make it Apple-like and fold it so completely into their ecosystem that it seems a natural fit. Not a lot of companies in the industry are able to get such milage out of their acquisitions.

    --
    If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
  50. Re:MIght as well be by ddocjohn · · Score: 2

    >How hard would it be to let the pad track where you tap on the button area and have an option let it send left/center/right events?

    Have you used a macbook recently? You seem to be running on very dated information. That goes for the rest of your post too.

  51. Re:MIght as well be by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The manuals that used to come with DOS and Windows were actually useful. The fact that they existed didn't mean that Windows was inherently difficult. It's like how people said that the Tucker was unsafe just because it had seat belts. The only significance of Macs not coming with any real documentation is the fact that Apple left something out of the package. They can save a few cents on ink and paper and push off the problem to someone else (like the Genius Bar).

    PCs that don't have any documentation anymore aren't easier. Corporations are just too cheap to include a manual.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  52. Re:MIght as well be by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So?

    Did you not read the post to which I replied? It starts off by saying that "Siri does look amazing, and will become really useful in a couple of years as developers outside of Apple operate on it" and yet Apple have deliberately prevented developers outside Apple from being able to use this on their platforms.

    It suggests that Apple is the only company that innovates in terms of creating intuitive user interfaces, and asks "Are there absolutely NO actual designers at any other tech company?". My point was that obviously other companies "get human interaction" because it was another company that created this very technology under discussion, and that Apple just bought it out.

    The original poster was seeing the tech world through Apple-shaped, rose-coloured glasses. I am not saying that Apple have done anything wrong. Nor do I claim that Apple do not innovate themselves at all. I am just correcting the misperception that it is the only company in the world that innovates with good ideas.

  53. Re:Bah by narcc · · Score: 2

    There is a difference in text-to-speech which has been around forever and natural speech recognition

    Yes, text-to-speech and speech recognition are very different technologies. So different, in fact, that they're virtually exact opposites.

  54. Re:MIght as well be by swalve · · Score: 2

    I remember when Apples were sold with instruction manuals and board schematics. Since they stopped, it's all been downhill.

  55. Re:MIght as well be by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

    IIRC, the hardware was invented by the Israeli company, and the software was made by Microsoft Research.

  56. I would rather iPhone has SIRI by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 2

    as written in CAPS.

    (FYI, SIRI is the abbreviation for Sirius XM satelite radio)

    iPhone + satelite radio FTW

  57. Re:MIght as well be by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Look at smartphones, Windows Mobile phones were around way before the iPhone, but they were never popular in the mainstream because they didn't have the "cool factor".

    This is a reassuring geek fantasy (goes along with the 'great marketing' fantasy I suppose), but completely untrue.

    Smartphones were made popular by the iPhone (and to some extent the blackberry before it) because it was better - better to look at sure, but more importantly better in design, better to use, and actually incredibly useful for the users who tried it. WM was a buggy, mediocre, hack-handed mess - people tried it and quite rightly gave up on it and went back to a simpler phone; not because it wasn't cool but because it crashed all the time, *and* top people at MS have no taste so it looked and felt awkward to use.

    So, yes, Apple are great at what they do, but to say that they would be where they are without the competition is ridiculous.

    Completely agree with you there - some things Apple do are duds (notifications in early iOS are a good example, they were terrible modal distractions), and some things they do are just OK till they see someone doing something better and copy it. Siri was bought in so it was not even developed at Apple, but they do know how to integrate things like that well, and how to steal ideas from competitors and do them better (Notifications from Android for example). One thing they do better than all of their competition though is to actually design their products (as opposed to letting them organically grow), throw out old ideas that aren't working, and to refine ideas which other people have had till they work really smoothly.

    None of that is really 'cool', it's hard work and a willingness to go their own way when it suits them and shamelessly steal ideas when they see a better product. There's a lot of work that goes in behind the scenes to make iOS a pleasure to use (not just programming work).

    They do need competitors to keep them at their best, without question.

  58. the T-shirt by pbjones · · Score: 2

    'I helped wreck a nice beach' I am hopping that Siri will be better that speech recognition that has been floating around for the last 15+ years, it isn't new. What the young people have missed is the video done by Apple Developers in about 1987 which showed a tablet with great speech recognition, but was Sculley's dream and not Steve's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Navigator

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
  59. Re:MIght as well be by Tom · · Score: 2

    With a lot of the cool things Apple do, they aren't the one to first do something, they are the first to do it in a way that appeals to the mainstream.

    Almost. They are usually not the first ones to make something, but they are usually the first ones to make it good.

    I used to own a Palm III back in the days. Extra geek credits if you remember the year without looking it up, I think it must've been 1999 or so.
    I tried to run Linux on a HP iPAQ.
    When the iPhone came out, my first thought was: There's the PDA I've always wanted. And, in fact, it still is. I don't really use it as a phone all that much, though it's handy that it's a phone as well.

    It's not just "mainstream", it's that Apple is usually the guys who get all the usability and design right.

    Windows Mobile phones were around way before the iPhone, but they were never popular in the mainstream because they didn't have the "cool factor".

    Actually, it was because they sucked. I've had work colleagues with windows mobile phones. It was painful just watching them use it. I'm sure I would've experienced actual physical pain if I had been forced to use the crap myself. I don't know the latest windows mobile incarnation, but the old ones were horrible abominations on par with Vista and with a usability you couldn't measure because your scale was lacking negative numbers.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  60. Re:MIght as well be by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

    If your company is growing at a rate slower than the rest of the market, then this is usually a bad sign, so this is what Wall St commentators pick up on. They miss the fact that many of these tech markets go from being niches owned by one or two companies to being large commodity markets over a short period. During this time, it's more accurate to say that the old market is part of a growing new market, rather than that the old market has grown. It should be a wakeup call for the companies in question though. SGI was in the state that RIM is in just around the time nVidia was formed: they were doing well in a market that was just about to shrink a lot.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  61. Re:MIght as well be by Tom · · Score: 2

    That is in a good part due to management stupidity. No, let me re-phrase that: Idiocity.

    A huge problem with our economy is that management, and I'm talking C-level and above here, bases many of their major decision on anecdotes and make-believe. For example, in many markets the acting top-players believe that there is only room for 3 players. The top-dog will do fine, the 2nd one will be doing ok and the 3rd one will barely manage. Everyone after that will be losing money, and thus be forced to leave the market or close down sooner or later.
    That sounds nice and rational. Many mergers are done because #4 and #5 are joining forces in order to become #2 or some such.
    The problem is that aside from anecdotes and "personal experience", there's no evidence that this is true at all. When you think about it, there is nothing magical about positions in a market. If the top-dog is a near-monopolist, he can split into two companies who would then be #1 and #2 - now tell me how doing so can push #3 from profitable (if just so) to making a loss. Of course it wouldn't. The whole thing is a rule-of-thumb that has some truth to it, but is at best a vast oversimplification of complex interactions.

    And still, massive mergers are orchestrated, thousands of people losing their jobs, because top management goes by rules like this.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  62. Re:MIght as well be by msobkow · · Score: 2

    Amen to that. Apple fanboys are notoriously bad at understanding that Apple is a stellar integrator and marketer of technology, but very little of what they have integrated was actually invented by them. Kudos to Apple's marketing and physical design teams, but the rest of it is just integration and hard work, not actuall innovation or invention.

    If there ever comes a time that Apple really is the most inventive and innovative company out there, then I'll worry -- because it means all the billions spent on R&D by Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, and a host of SMBs is being incompetently wasted and resulting in nothing useful. And that flat out ain't gonna happen.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  63. I'm wondering the extent of pop culture in it by Quila · · Score: 2

    So far we know it understands the 42 joke.

    I just saw in the news that in response to "Open the pod bay doors" it will say "Sorry [name], I'm afraid I can't do that."

    What else is in there?

  64. The same dumb voice recognition as always by holophrastic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Voice recognition is about as stupid as it's always been. People forget that the reason voice recognition didn't catch on in the '80s wasn't because of any lack of accuracy in the recognition side. It was because of lack of accuracy on the voice side.

    So I'll propose the exact same experiment for you today. Take your normal, non voice recognition smartphone, and give it to your friend. Then telly our friend what to do with it.

    You'll discover that your friend frequently has no idea what you mean, does the wrong thing, doesn't understand that your new commands are corrective commands, and accidentally e-mails your mother.

    The reason we invented buttons was to quantify our actions into ones that can be controlled, both positively and negatively. It's very easy to never click on the big red button with the mouse. It's not so easy to never accidentally say "launch missle", ever.

    Like I said, there's no voice recognition system that can get more than 95% accuracy, and I'm including your friend. When it comes to something technical, 95% isn't anywhere near enough. That's like dictating a 10-digit telephone number, and missing one digit every other time.

    So, would you accept your smartphone asking you to clarify your statements? That's just ridiculous.

  65. Re:I'm sure it will have an impact. by djrogers · · Score: 2

    You mean multi-touch? Yeah, nobody bought into the capacitive screen/multi-touch thing....

    --
    Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?