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RIM Unveils New OS Based On QNX
New submitter HommeDeJava writes "Research In Motion unveiled a new operating system for its tablet and smartphones at the company's BlackBerry developer conference in San Francisco. Called BlackBerry BBX, the new OS combines features of the existing BlackBerry OS and its recently acquired real-time QNX OS. Could BBX attract software developers and spur interest from consumers?"
I already know the future. Fail, of the epic kind.
sounds like an industrial strength, secure platform that might actually be adopted by governments, enterprise companies, medical, etc. not sure how it will be marketed to education and gaming though, except by showing nice 3d framerates
I last booted QNX something like 10 years ago...back then it was realtime, unix based (I think?), and relatively promising. I remember it was even more responsive than Linux (which was was more responsive than Windows).
The software, called BlackBerry BBX, bridges RIM’s current BlackBerry operating system and its newer QNX platform, co-Chief Executive Officer Mike Lazaridis said today. That should remove developer “roadblocks” and make it easier for them to build applications for RIM. Lazaridis didn’t say when the new BBX program will be available
Anyone have experience programming for QNX? If it's "just another unix" shouldn't porting to it be straightforward?
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
I agree. Too little, too late. It'll take years for them to turn things around, and they just don't have the time.
It sure seems like RIM is thrashing around looking for a path forward. Apple seemed to suffer from the same thing, limping along with an OS that lacked basic features like memory protection and preemptive multitasking until 2001, but look at them now.
Are RIM users loyal enough to wait out the problem years?
I thought this was going to be a cut and paste of the BSD is dying usenet message from the 1990s.
they could simply port the encryption and infrastructure to Android... I still believe they make awesome hardware and it's a shame to see it go to waste because of the same mistake done over and over and over again :\
Seems to me that that's really the only way to get in the game at this point--make things as easy as possible for developers. Free SDK, free publishing license, and higher payouts for devs. Hopefully RIM has learned a lot from these days (and if you read the followups, it looks like they're making an effort).
Though I've never owned or really even used a Blackberry device, I do wish them well, just like I wish Microsoft well. I don't want the only players to be Google and Apple anymore than I wanted the only players to be RIM and Microsoft. We could use more honest competition in this space.
If you can't convince them, convict them.
Is there a pool of developers out there, saying to themselves, "I'd totally develop for blackberry; but their kernel is t37 suxxor!"?
If, by some strange chance, the answer is yes, then yes, they should come flocking.
Otherwise, their fortunes will likely continue to depend on how pleasant their systems are to develop for, and how many devices capable of running applications are in the hands of users interested in buying them...
By all accounts, QNX is an accomplished OS; but it doesn't(in itself) solve the direst of problems with RIM's 3rd party dev efforts, which are not so much kernel limitations as user environment, dev tool, and API ones. If RIM can outperform its historical self in those areas, good for them. Otherwise, this "BBX" is going to offer the delightful choice of the same old blackberry crap, or Adobe Flash running like a wounded fainting goat on some flavor of ARM SoC; but with a rock-solid foundation...
I last booted QNX something like 10 years ago...back then it was realtime, unix based (I think?), and relatively promising. I remember it was even more responsive than Linux (which was was more responsive than Windows) ... Anyone have experience programming for QNX? If it's "just another unix" shouldn't porting to it be straightforward?
QNX is a real-time operating system. For programmer convenience some things are unix-like. However unlike Linux and other unix implementations QNX is a *hard* real-time OS, you are guaranteed that things will happen within certain timeframes. QNX is targeting embedded environments, in particular environments that require incredible reliability - for example military and aerospace. QNX is exactly the sort of thing you use when you are building a mars rover.
QNX is probably the best operating system ever. If properly utilized, I could see Blackberry overpowering all other mobile phone manufacturers. I ran it on my main computer a long time ago, and it was one of the best computing experiences I have ever had. If it were F/OSS, I would use it for much more.
Sig: I stole this sig.
I already know the future. Fail, of the epic kind.
I prefer fail of the EEPROM kind.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Sounds incredibly unlikely, considering it's ported to ARM, MIPS, PPC, i386, etc.
The sort of fail that can be totally erased by 30 minutes of hard UV is sadly rare these days...
The less roadblocks you have to development, the faster that cash comes in.
Actually its the more customers you have. The hardware/platform that developers target is chosen by the customers, not the developer's convenience and preferences.
That said, what roadblocks to develop for iOS? A Mac, a device and $99 a year to publish on the app store? To be honest that is an extremely low barrier to entry.
That's the EPROM. EEPROMs are Electrically Erasable.
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Apple pays 70%.
Suppose RIM were ultra generous and paid 100%.
So long as I sell 43% more on the Apple platform, I'm still making more money.
Put it another way, I'd have to sell 70% of my iPhone sales on the RIM before I made as much.
Ain't going to happen.
Wow. 4 million iPhone 4S sold .. who's willing to bet that will be a significant number of the total sales?
Considering that Apple sold over 13 million of the old iPhones in just the last three months, I'll take that bet
If Apple had complete faith in their product they wouldn't be trying to hamstring Samsung and Android.
Absolutely. Because when you have complete faith in your product, you don't care if someone tries to rip it off. It's times like this I wish Slashdot had a :rolleyes: emoticon.
------RM
Bimbo Newton Crosby, RIM is a corpse. If this would have happened five or even three years ago? they may have had a shot. but the ship has done sailed and from the looks of it the final tally will be Apple #1 with Android trading spots with iOS from time to time, so iOS and Android own 1 and 2, and MSFT buying their way into third place but not having a prayer of taking #2 much less the coveted #1 spot.
With mobile there is always a chance of something coming from out of left field, after all who would have thought 6 years ago that Android would suddenly explode, but RIM just doesn't have it. They don't have the hardware, the designs, nor the buzz, and even the CxO types are all running around playing with their iPhones and HTC Androids, its over. I just wonder who will buy them out for the IP, MSFT or Google? Maybe Samsung?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Given the legal challenges to Android right now, I would imagine they don't want to put all of their eggs in one basket. I can't blame them. It could turn into a win if the OS is well accepted. The game isn't over till it's over. If anyone in recent history has taught us that, it's Apple.
Android popped up in a smartphone market ruled by iOS and is now a huge player. RIM could pull the same move, although the OS won't be available for free, it could gain them needed traction in a market that is quickly slipping away. RIM still has a sizable corporate advantage that isn't completely burned yet.
Should be interesting to see how things develop over the next few months.
It happens every couple of years. Go do a google search and you will see. They are as bad as Apple, it don't matter how bad they fuck up, people forget and go back to thumb typing.
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
It's not UNIX-based. It has a degree of UNIX compatibility and a UNIX-like shell, but that's not the same thing.
I agree that what developers (companies, not always individuals) care most about is being able to make a profit on their investment. And on that front iOS wins, because they provide the best app store, and have trained millions of users to pay for software.
This is as distinct from the Android store, which is not as good, and which sells far less software per person.
But a close second (first for many individuals) is how easy it is to write software for the platform. As an extreme example, iOS is very easy to write good software for, because the APIs are rich and consistent. So even when the platform was new and the market was tiny, developers liked writing for the iPhone because it was fun and easy. This is not true of anything RIM has produced.
Though I have some hope. QNX used to be a great little OS, and perhaps it's still cool and fun, as well as stable and efficient. Even if it's in a RIM product.
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
That said, what roadblocks to develop for iOS? A Mac, a device and $99 a year to publish on the app store? To be honest that is an extremely low barrier to entry.
For students who have trouble paying for college, 1250 USD (Mac + iPT + certificate) is a lot of money. For people living in countries with undervalued currencies compared to the USD, 1250 USD is a lot of money. And I haven't been able to find one way or another whether high school students under age 18 are eligible.
BB is still entrenched in Corporate America. There's massive inertia there.
Oh yeah? Is that why RIM's morning general session at its conference had a heavy emphasis on games? From what I can tell, the most recent BlackBerry hardware has been targeted squarely at the teenage/college student market. Apparently BlackBerry Instant Messaging is more popular than SMS in some parts of the UK and Europe. Meanwhile, white collar workers have increasingly been demanding to use their own devices in the workplace; The Economist even did a special report on the trend a week or so ago. You think the general public is buying up BlackBerrys? Nope. It's iPhones they want to use in the office, and once it's the C-level execs asking for it, the IT department won't have much choice but to allow it. Get rid of the BES lock-in and it's game over for RIM.
Breakfast served all day!
Don't get ahead of yourselves.
Let's not forget that Apple came back from a far worse shape than this in the late 90s. It is way too early to say that "they just don't have time".
They better put a move on it, pronto, would be a much more accurate statement.
"primarily BIS/BES services"
Yeah, how's that working out for them?
thats 3 weeks of working McDonalds.
Which is impractical if you're already working McDonald's to afford tuition.
And Windows PCs are free there?
Neither are Linux PCs, but a Linux PC is a lot cheaper than a Mac.
No, but you're pretending they are because 'everyone owns a PC'.
The installed base is such that one is far more likely to own a Windows PC than a Mac. Perhaps I should multiply the expected Mac buy-in by 90% to reflect the 10% chance of already owning a Mac.
A full Windows license alone is ~30-40% of the cost of the entire buyin for mac development.
You don't need Windows to develop for certain popular platforms that compete with iOS.
Anyone under 18 can't enter legally binding contracts in any sane part of the world
I don't know about BlackBerry, but if you own a device running Android OS, you don't need to enter a legally binding contract before you're allowed to load homemade programs onto it. This is one of the differences between Android and iOS.
And now factor in that the students can sell their apps. Something that was *far* more difficult to do in the not so distant pass. Apple also lowered the barrier to reaching a large consumer market.
Apple took the first step; Google took the next step by lowering it further.
I have heard this 1% > $1000 several times, although I have yet to hear a reputable source for this statistic. Apple doesn't give out such stats, at least as far as I can tell. Who provides this metric? Competitors marketing slides don't count.
Key measures are a) profit share and b) share of web browsing c) number of app downloads and total number of (quality?) apps availble; in other words, what matters is how much the user use and can use their phones. Android will overtake Apple in these measures but it is taking much longer. If you think like this Apple is still ahead so far (and only just, and only if you include the iPod touch!).
Incidentally, this shows that WP7 has almost no hope. If you are an app developer you will do an iPhone app and some will do an Android app to show you support "alternative" people. Soon it will be the other way round (in fact I'd say that it's already the other way round in some markets). The inertia you need to overcome the leader is too much. The only reason that Android is succeeding is that Apple left a low end in the market available for them to develop in. Now the market has to be analysed as the 1990's PC market. Apple is Apple. Android is Windows and Windows is OS2, a late entry by an an over-arrogant computing incumbent.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
Let's not forget that Apple came back from a far worse shape than this in the late 90s. It is way too early to say that "they just don't have time".
Have you even heard one of their co-CEOs talk? One is all techno-babble and the other is a bean-counter with no real product experience. None of them are the caliber of Steve Jobs, and as a company, RIM is not the caliber of pre-Jobs Apple in the 90s (which was still quite innovative, just mismanaged).
Fire one or both of the current leadership, and we can talk turnaround. As it is RIM does not have the DNA for a massive course-change.
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QNX... what it has always done best was to be a tiny little itty bitty real-time operating system kernel which... as a user of it for 20 years I can safely say was AWESOME. They fit their entire real-time kernel into kilobytes and then supported building whatever you needed on top of it using a fairly unique (for the time, but really similar to UNIX messages) message passing system to communicate between tasks.
... well.. it doesn't give us anything really... it just... well... we have NO IDEA what this can possibly give the user... but... it has an X in the name and that makes it special".
QNX was NOT fast. It was however quite efficient and bragged for years about task switching times in the milliseconds when that kind of resolution was almost certainly unreachable.
QNX later added on the Photon GUI which was almost a rip off of Xt and Motif... but without XLib. This worked out well since it supported the fairly dynamic message passing approach to development common in QNX. It also REALLY REALLY sucked. In fact... every since GUI produced by QNX was a dog with fleas.
The point of all this is not that QNX sucks... the point being that QNX is just not something that should interest the user. In fact... it's pretty lame to announce this. Apple sold the hell out of OS X to DEVELOPERS by using the term UNIX all the time during marketing. But Blackberry tells us that the UNIX roots (and QNX is basically just a real-time UNIX microkernel) are unavailable to programmers that have to use Java anyway. Apple and Google on the other hand.. they don't go on and on talking about the operating system kernel of their systems... that's just nonsense. They focus on what the actual platform is. "iOS.. Apple's platform with all these bells and whistles...oh an just one more thing"... "Android... Googles awesome platform with all Google perks like maps and translation etc... built into an awesome interface... oh and it has angry birds too". Then we get Blackberry... "The platform based on this really cool operating system kernel called QNX that
QNX is not a hardened secure OS... Blackberry's security just got screwed since now... instead of the half baked network environment they had before which made hacking pretty close to impossible, they now have a full POSIX networking stack which has never been hardened or challenged in an environment where people knew they could get your money. So... now... hackers know that with the new OS... they should start hacking QNX's networking stacks and file systems to get their hands on your banking data. Linux at least has the Linux stack which has been hardened over years. OS X has BSD which has been hardened over decades. QNX has... well QNX which has been hardened... well no it hasn't... but at least it has an X in the name and that makes it special.
Let's be honest... if this is the best that Blackberry can do... well... screw it.
Oh yeah? Is that why RIM's morning general session at its conference had a heavy emphasis on games?
That's exactly why. They are already entrenched in the corporate market so they want to focus on the area they are bleeding like crazy, the consumer market. I thought that was obvious?