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B&N Pummels Microsoft Patent Claims With Prior Art
itwbennett writes "As Slashdot readers will recall, Barnes & Noble is being particularly noisy about the patents Microsoft is leveraging against the Nook. Now the bookseller has filed a supplemental notice of prior art that contains a 43-page list of examples it believes counters Microsoft's claim that Nook violates five of Microsoft's patents. 'The list of prior art for the five patents that Microsoft claims the Nook infringes is very much a walk down memory lane,' says Brian Proffitt. 'The first group of prior art evidence presented by Barnes & Noble for U.S. Patent No. 5,778,372 alone lists 172 pieces of prior art' and 'made reference to a lot of technology and people from the early days of the public Internet... like Mosaic, the NCSA, and (I kid you not) the Arena web browser. The list was like old home week for the early World Wide Web.'"
This post is prior art to everything else in this discussion!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
If it was this easy to beat them and the prior art was that apparent, why did everyone else bow down and pay to troll his toll?
Much was made of Bill Gates failure to recognise the prominent role the Web would play when he rolled out his book(!) The Road Ahead. Not to surprised the company seems to go around blinkered. Though much of the IP they're claiming is not used for visionary purposes, as this assault on Android illustrates, it's venal.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I find it inconceivable that Microsoft's technologists did not know of this prior art. Since patent law requires that prior art be disclosed at the time the patent application is filed, and not doing so is a violation of law sometimes turned patent fraud, I think the DOJ should go after these rat bastards for these violations.
I have to wonder if because B&N are from a different field, where the BS of software patents isn't prevalent, that they're approaching this with a more reasoned perspective than traditional tech. companies do. That is, most software is pretty much the same fucking thing as 20 years ago, and letting people patent shit for tacking on the phrase "on the internet" or "on a tablet" is fucking ridiculous. Thus they have a huge laundry list of examples. Then again, it could be pure naiveté and a losing strategy, as judges are generally even more inept at making reasoned assessments of technology than the utterly incompetent and over-burdened patent clerks, and might do better with only a few examples.
Or perhaps this just stems from B&N not having the same paradoxical "we hate software patents because they hurt us but love them because they let us bully others" attitude of say Google or MS or Apple. Either way, fight the good fight B&N. You'll probably lose, but you're right.
Looks like they did their homework and so did their lawers. Even if they were not to win this is a HUGE way to attract customers to their hardware/online stores especially when they win. You couldn't get a more massive good will gesture then this especially before christmas shopping holiday.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Come on Samsung, and Google. Patents were supposed to spur innovation, not squash competition. The system is broken.
This will sound dumb, but what about the other companies that cut deals with MS? Can they back out of it and sue MS? It would be interesting to see law suits started against MS again, but this time, make it in multiple nations.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
That's it, everyone in my family gets a Nook this year.
Anyone care to recommend the Simple Touch, Color, or Tablet and the pro's and con's? Links to good reviews are sufficient.
My guess is: Many patent disputes are settled with cross licensing deals. "Let me use your pantents and you can use mine." B&N is not a tech company so they don't have many chips to bring to this game. This gives them a stronger incentive to fight the patents.
With news from opera that they have duplicated the faster than light neutrinos does that mean that future art is now as valid a defense as prior art?
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
More to the point, anyone skilled in the art should have know of such things - including any competent patent reviewer.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
First off, not for another year. However, prior art STILL matters. You can not patent what you did not invent.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
So, yes, everything listed by B&N is prior art, but it's not necessarily all art that anticipates Microsoft's patents, or even necessarily renders them obvious. This is merely a list of prior art generated by a keyword search... B&N hasn't yet said which piece or pieces of art, alone or in combination, teach or suggest each element of the claims. In fact, they explicitly note that some of the references Moreover, while the prior art references listed below are categorized by patent-in-suit, the references listed relate "to the general knowledge".
Basically, it's a bit premature to claim that the list counters the patents. It may, once they've been mapped to the claims, but until then, it's just a list of art.
So, sorry B&N, you would have gotten 2 new customers if you would just sell your books and stuff to Europe.
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
All the other tech companies are used to dealing with Microsoft itself as partner, either for a product or in commitee. B&N probably has no relationship with MS other then as an end customer of Windows. Now that alone is enough to fuel a bitter hatred.
But basically, B&N has nothing to loose. If they loose they have to pay the same fee as if they didn't. It is not as if MS can hurt them in any other way.
Meanwhile MS has in one move ruined ALL its attempts to appear as if it wasn't the old evil MS anymore. The MS apologists who claim MS is no longer against openess or unwilling to play fair... well... they got to crawl back under the rock they came from and claim that this time MS Mobile Windows Phone Gazillion will be it!
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Well, gates has a false legacy all around him. For starters, he was not the one that picked DOS. IBM did. Later on, Gates bought the rights to Unix, merged it with DOS and then sold Xenix on 286s. When it had zero performance, it was others that pointed out how foolish he was. ANother set of employees had to convince him to stick with DOS and skip Xenix. Then gates ran around screaming that 640K was more than enough. The net we all know about. I mean it continues on and on and on. The man was NOT that bright. Just in the right places at the right time, with the right ppl.
Sadly, since MS has such a dearth of talent (esp. with that idiot balmer), they have to resort to illegal tactics.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
MS and Apple are nothing but patent trolls, no matter how the apologists want to spin it.
Microsoft and Apple both produce actual products, while the standard definition of a patent troll is usually a corporation whose entire business is licensing and/or suing others while producing no products of their own.
MS and Apple are trying to use their patents to make competing products prohibitively expensive. Also reprehensible, but a distinct activity from patent trolling.
William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
Think about the companies they went after to date. Samsung and HTC both partner with microsoft on endeavours outside of Android (laptops and windows mobile). For both of those companies, caving in may have been considered a safer move from a business relationship move.
Now B&N has absolutely no worries about being penalized on a business relationship they simply do not have. It's worth it for them to fight.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Google should make a change to their Android licensing terms. If you want a licence to the Google services or to even use Android commercially you must allow your patent portfolio to be used to defend the Android OS. With other companies in collusion and forming patent pools to attack Android this seems the best solution to smack down these patent trolls.
I am fed up with hearing how companies extort each other using NDA's and then litigate them into annihilation. I am glad Barnes & Noble is fighting this. I wish more companies would fight this type of patent and copyright abuse. I think a law should be passed to require companies to publicly identify which patents are infringing by a technology rather than fearmongering. Put up or shut up.
I don't think that Apple's using their patents on grounds of competition.
I think Steve was so genuinely butthurt over the Android backstab by Schmidt that's it's personal; not professional.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Correction - MS and Apple both PAY CHINESE to produce actual products. There, fixed that for ya.
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
MS and Apple are trying to use their patents to make competing products prohibitively expensive. Also reprehensible, but a distinct activity from patent trolling.
Except when you follow the links and read the article (I Know, I know) you see that trolling is exactly what is going on here.
Microsoft is trolling by proxy, using MOSAID in Canada as a non-practicing third party holder of these patents.
They (MOSAID) specifically state that they can't be counter sued for infringements because all they do is license patents
that Microsoft purchased from Nokia and deposited with MOSAID (after assigning themselves a free license to use them).
MOSAID does not practice these patents. They fit perfectly your definition of a TROLL.
Further Microsoft themselves don't practice most of these patents either, because they don't make phones. But because they licensed
these patents they are attempting to use them as a club to beat Android. So Troll again.
Nokia, not party to this action, retained a license when they sold these patents to Microsoft and their sock puppet MOSAID. They practice all of these patents, and therefore have stayed out of the way and kept their mouth shut on this issue.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
The Nook Tablet (unrooted) is slightly more open than the Kindle Fire (unrooted)
Some links:
My takeaway is if you have your gold geek card, get the Fire (less money) and root it. If you're less adventuresome, get the Nook for more openness, but get an micro-SD card or you're stuck with only 1GB of free memory.
-- How I want a drink, alcoholic of course, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.
Wait a minute. Barnes and Noble (founded 1873) "isn't stable, might not exist in 5 years"? When compared to companies like HTC (1997) or Google (1998)?
Not to mention for MSFT this really is a "heads I win, tails you lose' situation. think about it, what is the worst that will happen for MSFT? In a couple of years, maybe more as the case drags on and on AND ON those 5 patents get invalidated. The cost to MSFT? Not really anything, their lawyers are on the payroll and the court fees will be a joke. What do they gain? Well they have already made lots of money off of Android licensees, which BTW won't be affected at all by this since their contract was access to MSFT's patents not just these 5, so their contracts will still be upheld.
So while I have always said software patents shouldn't have been allowed in the first place it was actually a shrewd move on the part of MSFT. They probably scared some away from Android, others they got paid just like they were selling WinPhone, I bet if one looks at the final numbers MSFT will have made a pretty damned nice profit without having to sell a single unit. Man I wish i could get paid for nothing like that, must be nice.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Bit of a derrail here but an interesting point on Job's biography is that Jobs wanted to manufacture their products here, but no one was able to get the high numbers of entry level engeniers needed to operate the factories. He personally told Obama disapointing education standards are to blame. He even stated he was not talking about engeniers with BAs, simply vocational school levels of engeniering education. (Certain regulations were also blamed but only as delay factors, not roadblocks.)
It is sad when China beats us at a contract not due to cheap labor, but due to higher numbers of educated workforce.
Anyways, back to patent trolling!
Considering their primary revenue generator is *selling books*, no, they are not stable (anymore).
for MSFT this really is a "heads I win, tails you lose' situation
Unless msft gets sued back. Google shareholders just voted to allow Google to aquire Motorola Mobility. That will give Google a nice patent arsenal.
It's possible that Google (and others) are getting fed up with msft's patent-parasite attacks on Android. Paybacks can be a bitch.
Correction to the correction - MS and Apple both pay the US, Japan, Korea, Germany, and several others for actual products which are all shipped to China where a Taiwanese company is paid to have the Chinese assemble them together.
I'll call this one:
You'll soon see a news post on how Microsoft wants to reform certain parts of the patent law to protect from patent trolling ...
Someone will come in (probably first post) and state how Microsoft really is a great place to work and even though they are trying to do something good (patent reform) Slashdot will still berate them.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Guess I'm buying a Nook...
We show geeks how to get their dream girl at EyesOfOdessa.com
Don't forget that browser was one of the first (in 1995) to support the CSS drafts that existed at the time (first dating back to October 1994!).
I think Steve was so genuinely butthurt over the Android backstab by Schmidt that's it's personal; not professional.
I'm glad he was finally able to get over it.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Nah, I kinda doubt that and here is why: Look at how many companies that HATE each other, like AMD and Intel, or AMD and Nvidia have cross licenses. Even when AMD and Intel were slugging it out in court neither tried to revoke those cross licenses, why? Because they knew that once you get into the thousands of patents you are looking at mutually assured destruction which is why you don't see these megacorps tear into each other as much anymore.
I have a feeling Google bought Motorola not because they give a shit about protecting android OEMs, after all they didn't give a shit before and it wasn't hurting them, no I think its because they still want into the "whole stack" approach ala Apple and MSFT with Nokia so they are buying their own warchest to make sure any attempt to troll them by MSFT will equal MAD.
Sadly the only ones that get slapped around by these things are the little guys. Compare B&N to someone like Google or MSFT and you'll see they aren't even in the same league which is why they are trying to fight back, they don't have as much to lose and every dime counts when they are facing the kindle. For everyone else they'll either cut the check or cross license, just one more way our system helps the big guy and fucks the little guy.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I don't mind giving money to a company that's gone to the trouble of making a pleasant place for me to go and find an enjoyable book to read. They have comfortable lounge chairs that I can sit in for a while and read whatever I like. They serve decent coffee that I can enjoy while I read my book. They have a good selection of books, and my nook account shares seamlessly between my 1st gen Nook and my Verizon Droid2 phone.
Because of the local store, I would very much rather give them my money than Amazon or any other "pure online" retailer.
But now they are fighting patent trolling? Oh yeah!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.