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Ask Slashdot: Tablet With Root Access By Default?
hweimer writes "I am looking for a small (7") tablet that comes with root access out of the box. I know, I could get one of the usual suspects and root it myself, but I don't want to waste my time in the process and end up voiding my warranty. Basically, I'd like to use it for web browsing, reading PDFs and accessing my e-mails via SSH (extra bonus for X11 forwarding). Any good suggestions, or should I wait for Tizen devices to hit the market?"
I know it's a little dated, and not as fancy as other tablets, but it has everything you just asked for, along with X11 forwarding. I'd strongly suggest taking a look at it. You can even use it as a phone if you'd like. I think they are about $250 now.
Still a pretty decent device considering it's over a year old now.
You don't have to root it per se, but you do want to put on VeganTab or some other ROM (which likely voids the warranty, but the device is cheap for a dual 1Ghz Tegra with a 10" screen... <$250 these days). There's no "jailbreak" step like most other devices. Just put the ROM in the right place and reboot.
The Android market works great now (very improved from the situation before!), so you can load Google Earth and just about anything else without any hassle.
Also have one of these cheap USB keyboard cases for it. Even with that, it still ends up being less bulky yet more fun than my old EeePC 901.
Unfortunately, Android doesn't work great with physical keyboards yet (all kinds of focus issues, and the Ctrl key annoyingly doesn't work in ConnectBot).
None. Every tablet with Android has to be rooted and vendors are working very, very hard to fight the small percentage of users that do root. The closest you can get are tablets that don't sign the kernel and allow you to customize the OS (load cyanogenmod or something) but increasingly vendors are on the attack against that (B&N clamping down on the Nook Tablet, Samsung pushing out an update that locks down the platform.)
Tizen-based devices will, thus far, simply allow for a more standard *nix platform and other ready-made and compatible distributions, but that still requires you work your way through the first line of vendor hostilities (platsec misused against you) and then the second line of vendor hostilities (proprietary, signed bootloader and possibly a checksummed kernel.)
It's extra shitty in the mobile space these days, especially for those who like to do a little more than blindly consume.
None of the things that you said you want to do require root access. Web browsing, SSH, X11 forwarding, PDFs... You can do that all with an Android device without rooting. Heck, you can do that with an Apple device without jailbreaking.
choose your OS : meego, mer, android, win ...
Well it's not really a tablet but a tactile netbook ...
http://rzr.online.fr/q/atom
I am also looking for a opensource firmware android tablet :
http://www.androidquestions.org/threads/333-Opensource-firmware-android-tablet
Nook Color, it boots from the CF slot first so you just put down your own OS on a CF card and should you ever have a problem you just pull the card and it's back to factory fresh.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Everything you could pretty much want. But only 16GB. Only one SD slot. Wish they had a way to upgrade the on-board flash to larger capacities. We seriously need a smaller footprint for SSD's. Would be perfect with 128gb.
You can put whatever OS you want on it and the manufacturer encourages it, it just happens to come with android which is Linux under the covers.
"I am looking for people who know how to use google out of the box. I know, I could get one of the usual suspects and post my question on slashdot, but I don't want to waste my time in the process and end up voiding my status as being too important to look it up myself. Basically, I like to tell people I'm a power user but really I'm not. Any good suggestions, or should I ask Siri?"
I cannot speak for the upcoming Transformer Prime, but its predecessor TF101 can be rooted extremely easily (no time wasted here).
OTA updates keep working and the rooting can easily be undone (actually, the device gets automatically un-rooted every time you do an OTA update).
The super simple rooting procedure is discussed here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1198303
You basically just download a jar to your computer, connect the tablet via USB and follow the instructions on screen. It takes less than 5 minutes. I cannot guarantee that it does not invalidate the warranty, but I would say it doesn't.
What tablet needs root access to use a web browser, check email, read pdfs, or use SSH?
I had good experiences with this $200 SmartQ 7 7" tablet which I got 3 years ago (for $200). Runs an Ubuntu build that's mostly in english; apt-get did everything i needed to get my remote desktop on. I don't have a Nook so I'm not sure how it compares.
The supplier I used seems to be out of stock, but presumably there are others:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/smartdevices-smartq-7-7-0-touchscreen-linux-mid-internet-tablet-667mhz-cpu-wifi-bluetooth-1gb-27904
"web browsing, reading PDFs and accessing my e-mails via SSH"
Yes, if only there were a single tablet on the market that didn't require rooting to do such complicated tasks as web browsing, reading PDFs, or even a single SSH client.
Look, I'm all in favor of individuals having control of their devices. But I'm pretty sure there's a reason nobody sells a rooted tablet that does exactly the same things as everyone else's tablets. If you can't even answer why you need root access, don't expect to find a product that will.
Its been a while since I checked, but Archos used to make a complete source dump with build instructions for you to rebuild the version of android they use. They use an older 2.2 version, but they seem to be relatively hacker friendly.
Atlas stands on the earth and carries the celestial sphere on his shoulders.
Exactly. This is a great example of "are you using the right tool for the right job?" Does hweimer want to actually take a tablet and start learning the innards of the software or do they just want something convenient to carry around the house or the neighborhood that does basic things? Richard Stallman makes is career and life out of using nothing but free software that he understands from top to bottom. He makes a good point but he's an extreme case. My personal advise is don't get caught up in the allure of "free" if you aren't going to take advantage of it. Android has a ton of malware available for it, so maybe it's okay to take a less rapid free software stance and just find the best tool for the best price.
But if hweimer is interested in low level hacking, then good for them, I hope they find a rooted tablet.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Googling will get you every two bit opinion on Earth. At least by asking Slashdot, you're narrowing the two-bit opinions to an audience that would more than likely know for sure.
I once asked my brother (also in IT) his opinion on something IT related. He said, "let me google that. Here you go."
I replied, "I did that, thank you. I wanted your opinion and your experience if any."
Here's another example of where googling can be a dumb idea - car repair. If you don't know much about cars, you will be led down some expensive paths.
All google seems to get you many times is the Earth wide Peanut Gallery.
Sometimes people post in their own question about how they are capable of rooting a tablet themselves but don't want to waste the time while being perfectly happy to waste their time (much more than would be needed to actually root an android device) and the time of others with this silly question. He could have rooted a tablet 10 times over in the amount of time it will take him to get a useful response from this thread. I think that makes him an idiot.
Any good suggestions, or should I wait for Tizen devices to hit the market?
I haven't seen much from Tizen beyond their initial press release. And, yes, I subscribe to their mailing list. So I would speculate that it is all chartware at the moment. Maybe we will see a Tizen SDK next year sometime. And maybe even devices in 2013. Or maybe, like Maemo and MeeGo before it, just before it is ready to go prime time . . . someone will say, "Hey, let's give it a new name and start all over again, yippee!"
MeeGoo is already alive and kicking on the Nokia N9. It's a lot of fun having a cell phone that you can VNC to, mount with SSHFS, etc. Is all this necessary? No, but it's fun.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
All tablets and phones got root access by default. It just isn't you. But "they" got access.
Remember, mobile devices are like Windows 95. Lets share!
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Costco is selling the Vizio 8 for $189. Go to slickdeals.net, and you can probably find an A1 for $199.
Maybe that is his reason for wanting the device to be rooted, maybe it isn't. He doesn't say, so it is dangerous to assume why he wants it prerooted. Maybe it is for freedom, maybe it is for flexibility (freedom isn't always flexible), maybe (as I assumed when I read the OP) he thinks his list of requirements will require the device be rooted. But the point is we don't know why he wants the device to be rooted.
And I really wish he had said. Because then we could actually answer his deeper question more accurately. Because I am not even sure he really need rooting, I suspect (but cannot prove, and thus will not assert) that he really wants the ability to side load. In which case just about any 7" Android device will do. The list of things you need to root a tablet to do isn't that large, and none of it indicated by his list of requirements.
What do you know I wrote a novel
>He could have rooted a tablet 10 times over in the amount of time it will take him to get a useful response from this thread. I think that makes him an idiot.
But the submitter also didn't want to void their warranty by rooting, therefor asking for a device where that wouldn't be the case.
Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
it is 9" but he HP Touchpad doesn't have to be rooted. Simply enter developer mode ( just type webos20090606) and you've got root access. If not for poor decision making by execs and poor advertising more people would understand just how much you can do with WebOS and the touchpad.
Check out mcbub.. they have tons of generic tablets of various quality in the sub $200 range. I don't know about pre-rooted though. /not affiliated with mcbub
There's a ton of them and they make all kinds of 7" tablets. Some of them aren't bad and are what you're buying when you get re-branded tablets from various manufacturers. You might be able to convince them to sell you just one for a trial if they think you are an OEM company planning on selling them to consumers under your own brand. Or if you can get 50 people together to go in on them and share the shipping cost to qualify for a minimum trial order.
Seems like a major PITA to me but hey, they're unlocked out of the gate.
Check this one out for example. The good thing about doing this is, you're working directly with the manufacturer and have all the control over the software on the device that you desire.
HP Touchpad comes with root out of the box. Simply enter the root password "webos20090606 ". PDF reading sucks due to the lack of a search function but the community is working to get that fixed.
If you don't know how to vet sources you get garbage. You can do this better on google than slashdot.
Yet I don't think Google for "how to vet sources" will return much relevant.
Ok. Maybe he should have said "Is there any non-locked down 7" tablets out there that I could get." End of story. Period.
As for SSH, please see peterbye's comment.
Archos G8 and likely G9 tablets provide manufacturer assistance to load linux as an optional operating system.
Not the warranty you actually care about, anyway. Even if you root the software, that only voids the software warranty. The hardware is still covered under any applicable warranty. If the piece of junk falls apart in your hands after you rooted it, there is nothing preventing you from sending it back for a replacement. Flash the software back to stock if you are paranoid about it. The manufacturers and carriers don't give you root by default because the average person would fuck up their device if they had root access. Not giving you root limits their liability so they dont have to replace devices because some dumbass fubared his /system partition. If you can root, then you can also learn how to fix the damn software yourself. It becomes your own responsibility. Fixing defective hardware is always the manufacterer's responsibility, unless you modded the hardware. See Magnusson-Moss warranty act
If you don't mind a 7" with 800x480 there's one out called a "ZT-280 C71" which goes for about $139.
It has a single cortex A9 (AMLogic 8726 w/mali 400) @800MHz, 512MB ram, 4GB flash with microsd, hdmi and usb host ports.
Latest firmware is CM7.
Orders will be shipped directly from china.
Another popular model for a bit more is the renesas with a dual cortex A9 @ 1GHz with SGX530. Other specs still similar.
What about the Always Innovating Smartbook? It's 8.9 inches, but it comes with root access by default, and it runs both ubuntu and android.
http://alwaysinnovating.com/products/smartbook.htm
The only downside is that I don't know how long it'll be from when you put in your order to when you get it. The upside is that if you spring for it, you get a device that can be a pocket computer, a tablet, and a laptop.
If you really want openness and configurability, you should go with Apple. They really make a point of allowing tweaks.
There are people trying to achieve this but is is hard. http://cordiatab.com/
The economies of scale make opensource hardware difficult. even worse if you are competing against companies that can sell tablets at a loss, to encourage sales of apps/music/books.
you should also have a look at the openmoko project (and the new GTA04) and openpandora, which are not to far from a tablet. neither achieved the super success of projects like beagleboard or arduino.
and there is this http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/06/ekoore-announce-two-new-tablets-running-ubuntu-11-04/ but i have not heard of anyone who has one.
Posting anon for obvious reasons.
Yes, it's obvious. It's right in the name: Anonymous Coward
I own a 10" Android tablet and a Nokia N800 "Internet Tablet" of about 4.5" from 2007. Guess which is more useful? The Nokia.
The only problems I have with the Nokia are:
* Physical screen size - 800x480 is fine, but 4.5" is tough to read
* No good keyboard - I have an iGo BT keyboard
* 128MB RAM.
* Missing a few apps that I'd like - QR code reader.
That's it. ... ssh, VNC, xterms, email, calendaring, bluetooth, GPS, mapping, podcatcher, music, books on tape ....
I like the 2 SDHC memory slots.
I like the replaceable battery. 10 days of standby time.
I like the debian-based Maemo.
I like the shell.
I like Skype, SIP, Flash, and a few games.
I like that things I expect to work do
I like that I'm not tracked using any of these apps.
I like that I've **never** bought any after-market software for it.
I like that it was $220 in 2007.
The Android tablet runs 3.2, has 1GB RAM, 720p, USB, miniUSB, microSDHC. I bought an after market case+USB keyboard that let's me touch type. It still sucks. Maemo works the way I expect, Android does not. I don't know how to say this any clearer. Google fucked up Android when they left the "GNU" off and forced java onto us all. Java sucks for desktop apps. We've known this for over a decade and it is still completely true.
The only thing that I find better on the Android device is reading an ebook. Getting an ebook on the device sucks when compared to Maemo, but the actual reading is nicer. Every other app convinces me that it is wasting my bandwidth for either ads or some other privacy-sucking thing I don't want. I use Airplane mode constantly. I'm glad I didn't buy this device. It was provided by work. Oh, the built-in Android GPS sucks. It doesn't find satellites quickly - I've driven for 20 minutes before it locked as I turned into a parking garage. The external GPS on the N800 rocks. If something better comes along, I buy that and tether it to the N800 - no big deal.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm looking for a 7" tablet to replace the N800. Something that runs Debian, has USB, WiFi, SDHC (not mini, micro), and can tether to multuple BT devices like a GPS would be nice. HDMI out is oversold. My Android tablet has this, I have a cable and I give presentations using HTML-based slides, yet I still take a laptop with me. Android sucks when you expect just a little more.
Maemo ruined me for all other portable devices, especially now that mine is completely setup with how I work.
See other poster above. Put it in developer mode. Viola. Busybox terminal simply by connecting with novaterm.
Step 2: Add preware
Step 3: Add ssh, whatever other fun optware stuff you want, etc. For example, I run bash, openvpn, privoxy (who needs the built in web browser to support ad blocking when you can add privoxy and iptables rules?)
If you don't like doing everything with webos apps, you can run an ubuntu environment.
I second the HP firesale Touchpads. They have excellent, sharp bright displays, and are very snappy and functional with WebOS. Although the hardware is at end of life (or maybe not, there's talk of Win8 on them soon), HP is still committed to the WebOS thing, either they will continue and make a new Touchpad someday, or will try to sell off the WebOS division, but either way it's not being buried like the hardware was. Updates from HP continue to present day, I got one last week.
You can "root" the device in developer mode with a simple browser macro (type in a URL...) that is hilarious - it's the old Konami game cheat code "upupdowndownleftrightleftrightABAB" :) As I recall, that is it or very close to it, and you just have to throw a soft "switch" to put the unit in developer mode. This allows you to sideload apps either from a host PC or by copying the installer files to the internal "disk" storage tree and installing from there.
Plus you can even run Android OS in a WINDOW! How's that for portability / flexible dev environment? Kind of like a VM built-in.
Not to mention you can still find the 16GB ones on eBay for about $200-250, which is even still half to a third the price of current production tablets.
The only thing is it's a 9/10" tablet not quite as small as the one you want, they were actually in development of a 7" version when they killed the line, unfortunately it never saw the light of day.
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
Rooting a Verizon Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 is incredibly trivial and consists of doing a special boot sequence to be able to install one very tiny app on the system called "Superuser" which consists of one tiny file. There are no major flashes to the system, alterations of the boot loader, nor changes to the kernel or any other core components of the system. As far as I know installing this tiny app does not void the warranty, and even if it did it would be trivial to simply remove the app.
See the instructions at:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1202320
and:
http://alaya.net/blog/?p=5807
I will say this however: the main useful app that having a rooted Tab enables is AdFree Android. Yes there are other apps to overclock the system, mod/customize the interface, etc. If you really are so bent on all this tweaking stuff, or doing complex SSH tunneling or whatever, I would question why you would have a tablet and not a netbook or lightweight laptop with a keyboard, running Linux. Face it, these devices are essentially like dedicated web/document readers which can also play music and moves. I would question wanting to bend it beyond that use as kind of a waste of time/resources. People want to buy keyboards for these devices but that just seems ridiculous. Why buy a tablet in the first place if not using it for what it is designed for?
I know I know, getting your hands on one won't be as easy as going to Best Buy et al. and grabbing one from the shelves, but it does do all of the requested tasks (running ubuntu with X11 in a card right now). "Rooting" is as trivial as getting to the hidden Developer app and flipping a switch to turn Developer Mode on. A little install of Preware and you're good to go. I don't believe it voids the warranty, although the process or some of the software you end up installing (Govnah, for instance) may indeed void your warranty.
All in all, I've been impressed with the TP's speed, WebOS's UI and the community that exists around the TP - very nice people and knowledgeable.
http://www.aakashtablet.com/How-to-buy-Aakash-tablet.html
it doesn't say much but sign up for it's mailing list, they maybe able to tell you more.
Not owning a tablet or smart phone, what exactly does "root access" mean? I do not think these all run Unix so there's no "root" account. If the OS doesn't support letting you do everything then you're stuck unless you can find an alternate OS that runs on that device.
After seeing some of the posts in recent threads; I'm tempted to agree. I come to slashdot to see opinions of people who have personal experience in subjects relating to stories they're commenting on. It's great when it happens but it seems to be fairly rare.
How do you kill that which has no life?
If I were you I would not wait for Tizen or take the project seriously. Back when I bought my first netbook around 2009, my expectation was that I would use it to run Moblin, since I had read about the system and seen the demos. My expectation was that it was pretty much going to be the most awesome thing ever, and I thought it was interesting that the project was backed by Intel (now I think that it was stupid). In retrospect, Intel probably saw the project as a cheap way to get people to buy more Atom chips, but had no real interest in actually investing in the software.
Anyway, Moblin actually did make releases, which I eagerly gobbled up and loaded onto my netbook with anticipation. Every release sucked badly; it was just a shitty Linux distro hastily thrown together by a bunch of buffoons that didn't know what they were doing. The project was all hype and no elbow grease; the window manager was cool, but the overall environment was barren. My optimistic self was saying, it's OK, these are just initial releases! They're working hard on it! The project died abruptly, and Intel decided to dump the thing on Nokia, who thought that somehow it was a good idea to just merge the system with Maemo and call it Meego. I thought, "Ah, finally, the project has been rebooted and we'll see some results." I eagerly gobbled up the subsequent Meego releases. It was, in fact, no different Moblin... it has just been rebranded. They did smooth out enough of the bugs to actually make the system usable and implement some internal changes, but ultimately the system was still pitifully stagnant.
Lo and behold, they finally decided to throw in the towel, and one morning I visit Meego's website to check for a new release only to find an announcement that the project was canceled. Meego is no more, but wait! They want all the Moblin/Meego people to go follow Tizen now! It's backed by the Linux Foundation! The Linux Foundation has already proven that they can't develop shit. They're just a marketing organization that knows how to make nice little web pages.
Seeing Meego going and Tizen coming is like listening to the HURD project talking about why it switched from Mach to L4. OK, so you decided to cancel development of an unfinished project and radically redesign it and start over from scratch. We should care why? The people behind Tizen are probably right now flying to a conference to meet with the teams from HURD and Duke Nukem Forever to share development strategies.
The question is, why do we need Tizen? Every description I've read describing what Tizen is supposed to be looks like it was just copied and pasted from Palm press releases when they began developing webOS. webOS is now a mature, complete, functioning system running on big name hardware. Sure, HP royally screwed things up, but my faith is that webOS will live on. In the mean time, Android is pretty much unstoppable. Neither Android nor webOS are as open source to the extent that Tizen would be, which will probably be the one thing that keeps me following Tizen regardless, but I don't have much hope for it.
I've been buying from a company called Ugoos who manufacturers tablets in China. I initially started buying from them when they were only selling digital photo frames. Their Android tablets don't have the latest OS typically, but they have quite a selection. I'd stay away from the cheapest of their tablets as the old adage goes - 'you get what you pay for'. I'd recommend one with a capacitive touch screen and at least 1Ghz processor. I personally like the ones which offer the internal vs external 3G capabilities.
They all come with root access to the operating system. If you're ordering multiples, you can even send them a customized build pre-loaded with apps to load onto the device.
Site is available at ugoos.com (no I'm not a seller, just a happy customer)
Herotab C8 aka Dropad A8 aka Haipad M7; or Ainol Novo 7 Advanced. Not only are they rooted, these are very good tablets and priced really competitively.
w00t
HP Touchpad. You enter a code in the search bar and you have developers mode. Mess with it as hard as you want. WebOS doctor puts everything back the way it was. Screen is bigger than what you are looking for though.
Your two best choices in the 7" range are the Kindle Fire and the Nook Color or Nook Tablet. I can't speak on the Nook Tablet (since it's fairly new) but the Kindle Fire and Nook Color are both easily rootable. But, you really don't need to root either to do what you said you'd like to do. There's rumblings of an iPad Mini that's a 7" coming out next year, most likely. The 7" Galaxy Tab or HTC Flyer (/Evo View) aren't bad choices either but those are a bit pricier.
The only tablet out that has the ability to root with the least hassle is the Motorola Xoom which you would just do a "fastboot oem unlock" from the command line (requires Android SDK installed). That doesn't fit your 7" criteria as it's a 10" tablet.
No, the obvious reason I posted anonymously is because I don't have a Slashdot account.
It wasn't obvious from your post that you don't have an account. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite. The phrase, "Posting anon for obvious reasons," is a common Slashdot phrase for people with accounts who are posting something they are afraid to put their handle behind.
How about you, Raenex? Is that the name on your birth certificate, or are you hiding, like a coward, too?
Having a pseudonym, like pretty much everybody does here, allows you to build a reputation. That is why people will post anonymously sometimes even when they have a pseudonym.
It wasn't obvious from your post that you don't have an account. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite.
When I see AC, i tend to think they posted that way because they don't have an account. That should be the most obvious reason. (It's a Mensa thing. You know, outside-the-box kind of thinking.)
Having a pseudonym, like pretty much everybody does here, . . .
sheep
. . . allows you to build a reputation.
A pseudonym is required for that? Is it not possible to do build a reputation by using your real name, or are you hiding like a coward, too? And what do I need a reputation for? My mother had a reputation, but let's not get into that.
That is why people will post anonymously sometimes even when they have a pseudonym.
If by "That", you mean "Fear of being excoriated for expressing their true opinion", then, I agree. Like Zappa said, "It has never mattered to me that thirty million people might think I'm wrong. The number of people who thought Hitler was right did not make him right. Why do you necessarily have to be wrong just because a few million people think you are?".
The karma bullshit has turned this forum into a fucking popularity contest and I, for one, am tired of seeing the same fanbois and filesharing thieves modding each other's parroted arguments up. I choose not to play the game. And I don't see much difference between this site and the two-bit opinions the OP was referring to. I guess there is only so much to be said when people discuss the same fucking topics day in and day out. It truly is a rarity when someone comes along and makes an original and intelligent argument.
Aside from that, I'm just too lazy to create an account and sign into it on a daily basis.
When I see AC, i tend to think they posted that way because they don't have an account. That should be the most obvious reason. (It's a Mensa thing. You know, outside-the-box kind of thinking.)
You could actually respond to the argument I gave instead of attacking a straw man. It's an intellectual honesty kind of thinking. In case you missed it, it's the rest of the paragraph after the part you quoted.
Is it not possible to do build a reputation by using your real name, or are you hiding like a coward, too?
There's a spectrum from full anonymity to full identification. A pseudonym is a middle ground that is in some ways cowardly, but useful if I want to talk about work situations, while still providing some of the benefits of a persistent identity.
The karma bullshit has turned this forum into a fucking popularity contest and I, for one, am tired of seeing the same fanbois and filesharing thieves modding each other's parroted arguments up.
There are certain issues, like filesharing, that Slashdot has a hive-mind on. Then again, there are lots of other issues where it doesn't. The reputation system has made Slashdot a much better place than what you normally get when everybody is anonymous. I'm not saying it's perfect, far from it, but there's a reason the goatse trolls and other idiots often post anonymously.
I don't think X11 for android exists.. And i know it doesn't for iOS..
You can do SSH + VNC...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
They are all rooted ( as are china phones ). But buyer beware and do your homework. Some are good, most are complete garbage.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
no need to root anything, at worst you can use PLOP to add another OS (I run fedora 15 right now with full gnome 3) and keept the original,and it is all supported through both the company website/forum and the communnity forum. The only problem might be that it is a little too large and too powerful for you. I am running th ebig one (12" screen) and it is big. But power, OMG, it makes an iPad really look like the toy that it is.
Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
You could actually respond to the argument I gave instead of attacking a straw man. It's an intellectual honesty kind of thinking. In case you missed it, it's the rest of the paragraph after the part you quoted.
I fail to see a strawman. I would bet any amount of money that the majority of AC posts on this site are from people who don't want to bother with a pseudonym. To me, that would be the most obvious reason anyone would post AC. I'll concede, though, because we're arguing semantics at this point.
There's a spectrum from full anonymity to full identification. A pseudonym is a middle ground that is in some ways cowardly, . . .
I don’t believe there is any middle ground. Anything less than full identification is anonymity. If I can’t identify you, then you remain anonymous. And I am certainly not going to soften it up, I believe a pseudonym is just as cowardly.
. . . but useful if I want to talk about work situations, while still providing some of the benefits of a persistent identity.
AC is a persistent identity, too. No lie - my real first name is Bryan. Now you actually know more about the real me, than I do about the real you. Regardless, I am not sure how that will benefit you once you fit it into the bell curve below.
When I read Slashdot, I first load all comments, and then I set the filters to show zero hidden comments. I do that because I want to formulate my own opinion on the topic. I don't want it being skewed, because it is strictly based on the most popular commentary; I don't want pseudonyms getting in the way. Frankly, some users, like eldavojohn, mcgrew, and drinkypoo don’t know when to shut the fuck up. FFS, they comment on everything. That is not to say every comment they make is inane, but they are certainly not all gems. If their pseudonyms were stripped off their comments and their comments subsequently rated, I doubt you would find a statistically significant difference between the bell curve of their ratings, compared to the average AC. Take note at how many AC comments get modded +5. I think you will be surprised.
There are certain issues, like filesharing, that Slashdot has a hive-mind on. Then again, there are lots of other issues where it doesn't. The reputation system has made Slashdot a much better place than what you normally get when everybody is anonymous. I'm not saying it's perfect, far from it, but there's a reason the goatse trolls and other idiots often post anonymously.
Filesharing is one issue. I’ve also seen hive-mind applied to religion, Windoze/Micro$oft, Apple, Linux, Google, politics, nuclear power, daylight savings time. The list is nigh endless. The one that probably tops the list, though, is that AC should be ignored, because he has nothing intelligent to say. I seriously beg to differ but, then again, what do I know? I’m one of them.
I fail to see a strawman. I would bet any amount of money that the majority of AC posts on this site are from people who don't want to bother with a pseudonym.
You fail to see the strawman because you aren't critically reading the whole paragraph, and are only replying to the part you excerpted. I'll quote it here for you:
"The phrase, "Posting anon for obvious reasons," is a common Slashdot phrase for people with accounts who are posting something they are afraid to put their handle behind."
Everybody knows when somebody is posting anon. You don't need to announce it. People use that phrase to draw attention to the fact that they normally post with an account. If that wasn't true in your case, fine, but that's the ordinary usage of that phrase.
I don't believe there is any middle ground.
That's binary thinking that doesn't acknowledge real differences and real-word complexities. Human affairs do not consist of mathematical assertions in binary logic.
Anything less than full identification is anonymity. If I can't identify you, then you remain anonymous. [..] AC is a persistent identity, too. No lie - my real first name is Bryan. Now you actually know more about the real me, than I do about the real you.
No, I don't know shit. You're an Anonymous Coward, and for all I know I'm talking to a different one. People who post under a consistent account have reputations and posting histories. If you wanted to know more about me you could read all my posts and get a good idea of where I stand on a number of topics.
When I read Slashdot, I first load all comments, and then I set the filters to show zero hidden comments. I do that because I want to formulate my own opinion on the topic.
For me, there's too many posts to read through. I read at 3+, I discount the +1 bonuses that long-term users get, and I discount Funny by -6 so I don't see them by default. When I find something interesting, I'll read either the parent or following replies. It's not perfect, but it makes the best use of my time.
Filesharing is one issue. I've also seen hive-mind applied to religion, Windoze/Micro$oft, Apple, Linux, Google, politics, nuclear power, daylight savings time. The list is nigh endless.
Maybe so, but it's often the case than on any given story that I see contrary viewpoints modded up in a thread.
The one that probably tops the list, though, is that AC should be ignored, because he has nothing intelligent to say.
Yet AC posts do get modded up in any given story. As a general class, AC posts tend to be worse, but it's not a solid rule.
You fail to see the strawman because blah blah blah
No time for href, so you’ll need to look up semantics in the dictionary. I declared that argument dead, because of it.
That's binary thinking that doesn't acknowledge real differences and real-word complexities. Human affairs do not consist of mathematical assertions in binary logic.
Your unilateral thinking begs the question. I would have said “Not all human affairs consist of . . .”. After all, this one seems cut and dried: you are as anonymous to me, as I to you. I am not going to go look up your posting history, because I don’t care what your opinion is on any other topic outside of this discussion, because it is irrelevant. That goes doubly for any fanboi mod’s determination of how closely your commentary fits into popular opinion.
Blah, blah, blah. You're an Anonymous Coward, and for all I know I'm talking to a different one. Blah, blah, blah.
If I was a different AC than the OP, then it has just been demonstrated that we’re not all talking out our asses, for now there are two intelligent ACs stressing the same logical and valid point. To put it another way, you’re stating that the ratio of intelligent ACs just went up.
You feel the need to use a person’s pseudonym as a reference point, so you can judge them before you even listen to what they are saying. You apply the same pre-judgement when AC posts. If everyone had the same level of anonymity, then the playing field is level. I prefer a level playing field.
For me, there's too many posts to read through. I read at 3+, I discount the +1 bonuses that long-term users get, and I discount Funny by -6 so I don't see them by default. When I find something interesting, I'll read either the parent or following replies. It's not perfect, but it makes the best use of my time.
I try to not rely on popular opinion. If I recall correctly, something like that happened a few years ago in Germany. It wasn’t a good outcome. (There, now. You win the argument by default – at least according to some guy named Godwin). Another example is The Dixie Chicks. They didn’t hold a popular opinion about the war in Iraq. Oh, wait . . . they actually did, when the rest of the country caught up to their mode of thinking.
And you discount the Funny by -6? Don't like a good joke now and then? Do you really take yourself that seriously?
Maybe so, but it's often the case than on any given story that I see contrary viewpoints modded up in a thread.
Not sure what your point is, there. I see it all the time, but I can’t think of a single case where it wasn’t hive-minded, agenda-pushing, fanboisism, offset by someone (even AC) making a valid argument . I've seen that shut many a fanboi up.
Yet AC posts do get modded up in any given story. As a general class, AC posts tend to be worse, but it's not a solid rule.
As I stated before, the hive-mind taught you to believe that. Sorry, but I don’t buy into that opinion. I say as a general class, they all fit under the same bell curve.
I declared that argument dead, because of it.
Declare it dead for whatever reason you want. The fact is you ignored my argument and responded to a different one. Now you are just dodging it completely.
It was an important argument, too, because it was the sole reason I even bothered to make the post that started this little debate. I do NOT consider every person who doesn't want to be bothered with an account a coward. My original statement was aimed at what sounded like somebody who had an account that was afraid to post with it.
I would have said "Not all human affairs consist of . . .".
I agree, that's a better statement. Even so, many, many concepts that people deal with our fuzzy in nature or offer extremes with a spectrum in between.
After all, this one seems cut and dried: you are as anonymous to me, as I to you.
I have a consistent posting history and an exclusive account that gives me an identity. You are indistinguishable from any other Anonymous Coward. Whether you are interested in it or not is up to you, but many people are interested in that aspect and care about reputations and identities. It forms the basis of society.
You feel the need to use a person's pseudonym as a reference point, so you can judge them before you even listen to what they are saying.
If everybody was Anonymous in a thread, then you would never be able to get a consistent view of the conversation about who was saying what. Maybe you like this, but I don't.
If I was a different AC than the OP
The only reason I accept that you are the same AC and bother to reply is because at this point I doubt it's another AC reading and replying this deep and late into a conversation.
I try to not rely on popular opinion.
I have better things to do with my time than read every single Slashdot post. Furthermore, as I've said, I read both parents and replies to interesting comments, so I get contrary views. I then decide for myself what to think.
And you discount the Funny by -6? Don't like a good joke now and then? Do you really take yourself that seriously?
I like a funny joke now and then, and I was even amused for a short while when I first started reading Slashdot, but it got old, quick. Just too many comedians, and I don't come to Slashdot for the humor. I do run across the occasional joke that I like on here, and will even make some myself, and that's good enough for me.
I vehemently object to your statement that I ignored part of your argument. Nothing was ignored. As I stated, we are arguing the semantic difference in what we consider an obvious reason to post AC. Apples. Oranges. They’re different. There is no point in discussing it further. I am not about to start another argument over what you seem to think I ignored in your post, because you’re hallucinating if you think anything was.
I don’t care about consistent posting histories and reputations.
Q: If any Joe can stumble upon the conversation and comment intelligently on it, why should the listener value his statement any less?
A: Only one reason comes to mind: Because the listener can’t think for himself and requires outside opinion to influence his own.
I don’t know how many ways I can restate it.
I read Slashdot nearly the same way as you, except I don’t limit it to to what other people think I should read. I skim nearly all comments, until I get bored with a thread. That offers me the opportunity to read much opposing commentary,to better understand all perspectives on an issue. However, I will not allow popular opinion to influence me to automatically ignore a demographic. After all, ignore is the root word of ignorance.
You state that you have better things to do with your time than to read every single post. Perhaps that is because you are spending too much time making sure you don’t stray too far from the rest of the herd.
Heil Hitler!!
Nothing was ignored.
You ignored the sole reason why I even bothered to comment in the first place, and it was the phrase, "Posting anon for obvious reasons." This phrase is usually used by people who have accounts. I really wasn't interested in getting into a debate on the overall value of Anonymous Cowards.
Heil Hitler!!
This is why Godwin's Law was invented in the first place. The idea of any meaningful discussion occurring after something like this is unlikely. I let it slide once, but no more replies from me.