Slashdot Mirror


15 Years In Jail For Clicking 'Like'

patiwat writes "Thailand has warned Facebook users that they could face 3 to 15 years in jail if they press 'share' or 'like' on images or articles considered unflattering to the Thai monarchy. And it doesn't just apply to Thai subjects: a U.S. citizen was arrested and convicted while visiting Thailand for posting a link to an unauthorized biography of King Bhumibol on his blog. Convictions for virtual lese majeste have sky-rocketed in recent years as efforts to defend the widely revered royal family from criticism have ramped up."

71 of 449 comments (clear)

  1. Fuck the king by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Fuck that greasy yellow slope

    1. Re:Fuck the king by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ahhh when practiced correctly freedom of speech can bring so much laughter

    2. Re:Fuck the king by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly where in Europe it is illegal to offend the king/queen. At least in Scandinavia the royal families get their fare share shit starting from the press and continuing to social media.

    3. Re:Fuck the king by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Technically speaking treating the King of Thailand as separate and above the rest of the population and all other people on the planet is the ultimate act of racism. A breed apart superior to all the rest of humanity, let's be honest the only idiots who run around with that attitude are psychopaths and narcissists. Of course generally it is only the psychopaths that try to punish a whole world of people who disagree with that principle. So it would seem the Thai ignoble royal family are psychopathic ass hats to the core and yeah for the subject heading.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    4. Re:Fuck the king by CmdrPony · · Score: 4, Informative

      That law isn't made by the king or royal family, it's made by the government (and in turn, people). He himself has said that he shouldn't be above criticism, and does parole people punished for that law.

    5. Re:Fuck the king by grumbel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In Germany we have this fine law:

      Defamation of the President of the Federation

      (1) Whosoever publicly defames the President of the Federation, in a meeting or through the dissemination of written material (section 11 (3)) shall be liable to imprisonment from three months to five years.

      (2) In less serious cases the court in its discretion may mitigate the sentence (section 49 (2)) unless the conditions of section 188 are met.

      (3) The penalty shall be imprisonment from six months to five years if the act constitutes an intentional defamation (section 187) or if the offender by the act intentionally supports efforts against the continued existence of the Federal

      Republic of Germany or against its constitutional principles.

      (4) The offence may only be prosecuted upon the authorisation of the President of the Federation.

    6. Re:Fuck the king by timbo234 · · Score: 2

      That's simplification to the point of inaccuracy, in Australia's case at least. For a start the illegality is only when race is involved, you can quite freely come to Australia and say that the prime minister, the Queen, the Governor General (the Queen's representative in Oz) or any other politician is a fuckwit or something like that, and you'll find plenty of people who agree with you completely.

      Secondly, and more importantly, it only becomes a criminal matter if you threaten violence or physically confront someone and harass them:
      "To establish racial vilification of a criminal nature, it is usually necessary to establish a high level of harassment or potential threat. While the distribution of offensive material may form one end of the continuum of behaviours prohibited under state criminal law, generally, incitement to violence, threats to person or property, and so on, are required in order for state or federal criminal provisions to apply."
      http://www.hreoc.gov.au/racial_discrimination/cyberracism/vilification.html

      Just posting what GP did would at worst land you in a conciliation process with the above mentioned commission or if that fails a civil court case. And as the link above mentions they handle very few cases about alleged internet discrimination.

      I generally would support having US style free-speech laws in Australia, but the current situation is not as repressive as some Americans on /. seem to imagine.

      --
      Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
    7. Re:Fuck the king by cgenman · · Score: 2

      If I'm remembering my history correctly, those laws were enacted under Tarkin's reign. The Thai monarchy was basically an afterthought early this century, until he leveraged his legacy position to legitimize military rules who in turn, legitimized him.

      We're talking about a country where at an appointed time of day, everyone is required to turn to a picture of the king and sing. Do you really think that was voted up in a properly open legislature?

    8. Re:Fuck the king by belmolis · · Score: 2

      Civil libertarians do and have objected to this Thai law, but objections to censorship of commentary on Islam are more widespread and vehement because censorship of discussion of Islam is a much greater problem: (a) Thailand is one small country; there are 51 countries in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation; (b) this law is enforced only within Thailand while Muslims attempt to enforce censorship everywhere; (c) the penalties in Thailand are relatively modest while Muslims call for the death of critics and sometimes actually murder them; (d) the Thai monarchy has little importance outside of Thailand so most people in the world have nothing to say about it while Islam has great influence and from the point of view of many people around the world is a nefarious influence deserving of criticism.

    9. Re:Fuck the king by Meski · · Score: 2

      One. Are prosecutions proceeding against Berlusconi, who, if I recall correctly, caller her 'unfuckable' (chancellor, president, what's the difference?)

      Two. I (hypothetically) have slashdot mod points. Does Thailand regard them as like/share? If so, which is worst? Funny, Informative or Insightful?

    10. Re:Fuck the king by jandersen · · Score: 2

      To quote Wikipedia:

      In Denmark, the monarch is protected by the usual libel paragraph (Â 267 of the penal code which allows for up to four months of imprisonment), but Â115[7] allows for doubling of the usual punishment when the regent is target of the libel. When a queen consort, queen dowager or the crown prince is the target, the punishment may be increased by 50%. There are no historical records of Â115 having ever been used, but in March 2011, Greenpeace activists who unfurled a banner at a dinner at the 2009 United Nations Climate Change Conference were charged under this section.[8] They received minor sentences for other crimes, but were acquitted of the charge relating to the monarch.[9]

      Denmark is, as you may know, in Scandinavia; as for the rest of Europe, read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se_majest%C3%A9

    11. Re:Fuck the king by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      Ahhh when practiced correctly freedom of speech can bring so much laughter

      Whereas in this case it comes across as racist drivel. Yes you have freedom of speech, no it does not mean what you write has any value.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  2. Why indulge? by Gothmolly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why do people continue to go to countries that suck?

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:Why indulge? by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I haven't been to the US since they introduced the eye scan for citizens of my home country at entry.

      Shame. It was quite a nice place compared to much of the world.

    2. Re:Why indulge? by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why do people continue to go to countries that suck?

      That's exactly why I haven't been to the US during the past 20 years, but I have been to Thailand twice in that same time.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    3. Re:Why indulge? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are no countries that don't suck. There are only countries that suck comparatively less in certain areas.

    4. Re:Why indulge? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Makes sense, the US doesn't generally let pedo's back in once they skip the country.

    5. Re:Why indulge? by jd · · Score: 2

      That needn't be the case - countries are quite capable of learning from each other, just as people are. Of course, capability and willingness aren't generally the same thing, but that's a choice and not an intrinsic property.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    6. Re:Why indulge? by rev0lt · · Score: 2

      You know why, right? Many of the Sicksextourists _are_ americans.

    7. Re:Why indulge? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I haven't been to the US since they introduced the eye scan for citizens of my home country at entry.

      I call bullshit.

      1. You're from the UK... not some terrorist backwater country.

      Recent riots in Britain had few deaths (care to guess why and follow our example?)

      2. US collects 10 fingerprints and a digital photograph:

      The officer will scan your fingerprints and take your photograph with a digital camera.

      http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_1336.html
      http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/editorial_0525.shtm

      There was a pilot program like 5 years ago where you could use an eye scan to speed through security (you had to signup for it and submit a scan before hand)... and that was never a general requirement, and it was discontinued.

    8. Re:Why indulge? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Thailand is a beautiful country and the people are really friendly there. I spent time there last year and I'm going back again, without even thinking when I would return. In fact I dated a few thais too, and the whole atmosphere is much more relaxed and they seem a lot more caring than women in my country. Not everyone go there for plain sex. In fact I'm only 22 and there wouldn't be any problem getting some action in my home country either. I just like living there a lot more.

    9. Re:Why indulge? by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're an idiot.

      Thailand has beautiful islands, nice beaches, very friendly people and a ton of culture sites worth visiting. Yes, it also has sex-tourism. But at least in Bangkok, there are a lot more real massage parlours than sex-related ones. And getting a nice foot-massage halfway into a several hour shopping tour or visit to the night market (a must-see) is something they could well offer in the western world as well.

      Snide remarks, dumbo, work a lot better when they're based on facts and not bullshit.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    10. Re:Why indulge? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Australian here. If I went to the US as a tourist and went around threatening the President I would expect Bad Things to happen to me.

    11. Re:Why indulge? by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yup, and Congress has had to create laws to prosecute American pedophiles because Thai authorities are too busy chasing down people who make disparaging remarks about their King.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    12. Re:Why indulge? by mellon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nope, sorry, they were doing that to alien visitors when I entered at Chicago last week on the way back from Japan. The Japanese government is doing it too. I got photographed at Heathrow a while back, but I'm not entirely sure what they were doing—it wasn't at immigration, so it seemed like some sort of airport security measure.

    13. Re:Why indulge? by Adriax · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except that's not the same thing.
      If the US had the same laws as tailand, anyone even remotely related to fox news would be shipped off to Guantanamo for the crap they make up about the president on a daily basis.

      You can walk around america with a t-shirt that says "Obama sucks donkey balls!" all you want, you can't in tailand with a comparable shirt about the king.

      --
      I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
    14. Re:Why indulge? by reboot246 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're comparing apples to rocks. Totally different laws.

      If you came here and threatened the President, you would be in trouble.

      But you could come here and call our President every name in the book and nothing bad would happen to you. You couldn't go to Thailand and say the same things about the king. We would probably buy you a drink; in Thailand you'd wind up in jail.

    15. Re:Why indulge? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We don't. We go to Thailand instead.

      A holiday in Thailand is cheap, surrounded by polite Thai people (mainly because people own quite little and are happy to serve tourists with for a few dollars), generally quite safe, and has some beautiful islands.

      A holiday in America starts by getting fingered by the TSA and then gets worse.

      I know which I'd prefer.

    16. Re:Why indulge? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Freedom in this case means freedom from government persecution. Ostracism is a very different thing, and is itself an inevitable consequence of freedom of association.

    17. Re:Why indulge? by CmdrPony · · Score: 3, Informative

      Having the law but not enforcing it is actually worse. It means it can be selectively enforced if someone doesn't like some guy. Either have the law or not, but don't make it random.

    18. Re:Why indulge? by CmdrPony · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, for example the country were talking about, Thailand, doesn't fingerprint or eye scan people. They do take photo on international flights when going through customs.

  3. Revered? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    as efforts to defend the widely reviled royal family from criticism have ramped up

    FTFY

    1. Re:Revered? by Goaway · · Score: 2

      Actually, you fixed nothing. The Thai king is indeed widely revered.

    2. Re:Revered? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Widely revered does not mean universally revered.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    3. Re:Revered? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

          And how would you know that, if it is illegal to say otherwise?

          That said, the king is an old man in poor health. His son is the worst kind of corrupt playboy who deserves to be criticised for many things.

          All these prosecutions are meant to terrorize the population so there will be no dissent when the old king goes.

  4. Bullshit Laws! by Das+Auge · · Score: 2

    As an America, it angers me to see some from a country not their own get arrest for a bullshit law that serves no legitimate purpose.

    Wait...are we talking about defamation of monarchy or copyrights?

    1. Re:Bullshit Laws! by teh31337one · · Score: 5, Funny

      As an America, it angers me to see some from a country not their own get arrest for a bullshit law that serves no legitimate purpose. Wait...are we talking about defamation of monarchy or copyrights?

      Are you sure you're an America?

    2. Re:Bullshit Laws! by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Informative

      Joe Gordon is a dual Thai/US citizen. He was born in Thailand and never renounced his citizenship. So Mr Gordon is not "from a country not their own".

      I am not saying that the law is not BS but that Thailand is applying their laws to their citizens.

    3. Re:Bullshit Laws! by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 2

      In Canada there are a lot of people who come here and get citizenship far more easily than is done in the U.S. Then they go back to their home country and play the 'Canadian get out of jail free' card when the shit hits the fan. A few years ago when Israel invaded southern Lebanon, literally thousands of these 'Lebanese Canadians' screamed for help to get out of there. The Canadian government spent millions of dollars to evacuate these 'Canadians'. One woman even complained because she said the service was poor and the sleeping conditions and food were not up to her standards. Then when the war was over, they all went back to Lebanon.

      I can't stand these Canadian by convenience people who play both sides of the fence. If you want to be Canadian, you should have to renounce your citizenship to your former country or not become Canadian. At the minimum, you shouldn't expect any help if you get into trouble outside of Canada, especially in your former country that you hold your dual citizenship in.

      This guy was also Thai. He knew or should have known the law and penalties for what he did. Especially if he didn't want to renounced his Thai citizenship, and especially so if he was going to travel there. He needs to own his own behaviour, even if the penalty for it is stupid and excessive. He is the victim of his own circumstance.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  5. democracy by Tom · · Score: 2, Interesting

    efforts to defend the widely revered royal family from criticism have ramped up.

    That, right there, is the critical point. From my visits to Thailand, I also got the impression that they really love their king.

    As a democratic country, they can agree to not wanting to have criticism of the royal family, can they not? Remember that this is not the USA - there is no 1st amendment in Thailand. With that in mind - test yourself on how devoted you really are to the concept of democracy. If you think that there are limits to what a democracy can democratically decide to do - who gets to set those limits?

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:democracy by vadim_t · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think free speech is a must for a democracy to work. How can you vote for what you want when it's illegal to say it?

    2. Re:democracy by k8to · · Score: 2

      I think it's obvious that democracy isn't a proof against bad results, and anyone who says otherwise is usually politically grandstanding, or hiding something, or both.

      The who gets to set the limits problem is pretty thorny though. Our (US) byzantine system of procedure for doing it seems better than a simple vote, or a simple law pass, or a single office or bureau getting to pick. But it has problems too.

      --
      -josh
    3. Re:democracy by Chewbacon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As far as asking us to respect the king they love so much, keep in mind Americans have come to love their freedom of speech. That said: Fuck that king. I'll shit in his shoes. Bet he has a severe case of short dick syndrome. You can tell him I said it.

      --
      Chewbacon
      The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
    4. Re:democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Democracy is meaningless without absolute protection of individual rights. In a free society, liberty tops all other factors, otherwise you have "tyranny of the majority".

    5. Re:democracy by S.O.B. · · Score: 4, Informative

      The King isn't responsible for the law or how it is used/abused by the government. He is a constitutional monarch and has no more control over the laws of Thailand than Queen Elizabeth has over the laws of Britain.

      The King has even stated that he is not above criticism and usually pardons people after they have been sentenced which is the first point in the process where he has any constitutional power that he can exercise.

      --
      Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
    6. Re:democracy by jd · · Score: 2

      I'm not so sure. The US system has multiple entities, all elected by the same group of people, making the laws, certifying the laws and then evaluating the legality of those laws. (Well, for those judges who are elected, it's the same group of voters.) This means there are no meaningful checks and balances, which ultimately means everything really is decided by a simple vote. It merely has the illusion of not being.

      Now, Plato in his book on The Republic asserts that it is not procedure that fixes the flaws in democracy but a highly educated populace. His theory was that democracy ultimately degenerates into a semi-dictatorship the moment a populist leader takes charge of a nation where the majority are ill-informed and poorly equipt to judge the merits of any argument. I would agree that this is part of the solution, though there's plenty of evidence that highly educated people are no less likely to be swayed by illogical but emotively convenient arguments and that prejudices are actually more firmly fixed rather than remedied through intellectual debate. There needs to be an additional ingredient.

      The UK's approach, the House of Lords, has some nice elements. It's theoretically a meritocracy, since you don't just get given titles you have to earn them. It's also partially isolated as those who agree to hold title are (ok, were) barred from voting or standing in local or national elections. It meant that the views of the Lords could not dominate or sway the views of the general populace AND that the general populace had no means of dominating or swaying the views of the Lords. If the two Houses agreed, it was because there was something to the arguments put forward beyond being advocated by a rich lobbyist. Not always a whole lot more, but at least something. The system was flawed, yes, and has become increasingly so, but a consensual split-brain approach is definitely worth further examination by other democracies.

      It is better to learn from the mistakes and strengths of these ideas than to stagnate.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    7. Re:democracy by Asic+Eng · · Score: 2

      The King likes to maintain the fiction that he has nothing to do with these laws, or with the army overthrowing the elected government whenever he feels like it. He might usually issue pardons, but he does not always do that. How is that "not being above criticism"? Sometimes he pardons someone after they've been harassed by the judicial system ... and sometimes he doesn't. Better stay on his good side, eh?

    8. Re:democracy by rev0lt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So, why the US - that have the 1st amendment, have only 2 major politic forces? Are you saying the majority of the americans agree with the bullshit from either side? Why do you see much more plurality on the governments of european countries? Free speech means nothing if you don't have free press (you don't), when you have censorship (you have, both on books and music), and when the politicians from either side defend corporate interests and not the citizens (you call it a legitimate profession - lobbyist - in EU is almost a criminal activity). So what's left? Either free speech is not required for a democracy, or the USA aren't a democracy. Pick your poison.

    9. Re:democracy by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      Or in a very difficult to amend Constitution.

    10. Re:democracy by jd · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I question the "absolute" part. There has to be a sensible balance between individual rights and governmental rights. If liberty tops all other factors, the government can do nothing because there are no rights left to be had. There are only so many to go around. Government should not have excessive rights, it shouldn't even have 50% of the rights, but it can't have none at all. The same is true of any other collective entity (corporations, special interest groups, etc). They, too, should have rights but by giving them rights that can't be infringed, you have to take away the right to infringe on those rights from everyone else. It isn't zero-sum, but it IS bounded.

      The problem in the US and other Western democracies is that the rights of entities other than individuals have become excessive. That is a natural property of the free market, since corporate rights are cheaper than individual rights and a "free market" implicitly gives 100% of the liberty to the corporate entities. You've got to have a system where rights to non-individuals are only given according to a demonstrated and legitimate need rather than a desire.

      Thailand's system is improperly balanced, but it would be unfair to say it's any worse balanced than anyone else's. It's merely easier to see for most of us because we're on the outside of Thailand. Outsiders always spot flaws and defects with greater ease than insiders.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    11. Re:democracy by artor3 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nonsense.

      We have two political parties because our election system -- with its winner-take-all, no run-off rules -- naturally gravitates towards a two party system.

      We have a free press. Just because you don't like what some branches of the press report doesn't mean they aren't free.

      And you're claiming that books and music are censored? Have you even been to America, or do you base all your opinions off the crap you read on Slashdot? Your English makes it clear that you aren't an American, and based on how distorted your view is, I'd guess that you have absolutely no first hand knowledge of the country.

    12. Re:democracy by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      > In the US the press may be free from government interference but they are not free from corporate/monied interest interference.

      Some commercial channels in the US press are subject to interference from corporate interests. However THE PRESS as a whole in the US is defined so broadly and it is so diverse that it is not possible for corporate interests to interfere with it in aggregate.

    13. Re:democracy by Tom · · Score: 2

      The various constitutions, seperation of powers, etc. etc. all do nothing to prevent a tyranny of the majority, but they are quite successful in preventing a tyranny of a temporary majority. In most western countries, being in charge of the place for one or two terms doesn't enable you to dismantle the system or oppress the minority of your choice. You can make steps into that direction, you can do a lot of harm, but you can't become a tyrant that easily anymore.
      We know that, because lots have tried. Berlusconi in Italy, maybe the most obvious recent example. There are others as well.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    14. Re:democracy by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now, Plato in his book on The Republic asserts that it is not procedure that fixes the flaws in democracy but a highly educated populace.

      It is not a coincidence that the quality of the government correlates strongly with its focus on education. The pisspot incompetent idiots we call politicians these days have no interest in an educated population, which would immediately see them for the parasitic charlatans they are. So they see to it that education remains at a base level useful for the economy, but not more.

      Visionary politicians of decades past, who had no fear of their politics being critically examined because they actually had a plan and a clue, always had better education somewhere in their agenda.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    15. Re:democracy by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      The Bush-era advocacy of the harassment, arrest and even assassination of critics of the government meant that it was illegal for 8 years to criticize the government or the head of state.

      How do you explain the Obama-era advocacy of arresting reporters for attempting to cover #OWS? Since those responsible for coordinating the federal assault on same report directly to the president, and he's not stopping them, these actions clearly have his blessing. Stop with the "Bush-era" nonsense, Obama is no different, no better.

      Something CAN be a democracy and not have all the attributes one might consider ideal.

      Athens was considered the birthplace of democracy even though they didn't have it; you had to be a male, racially privileged land owner in order to have a vote then just as you had to be here when this nation was founded. We have an electoral college that makes this a republic and it's controlled by the moneyed elite which makes it an oligarchy. So while what you say it's true, the USA is still not a democracy, and never has been.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    16. Re:democracy by Tom · · Score: 2

      Pretty simple actually. Yelling fire in a crowded theater puts people in danger. What damage is done by making fun of a person?

      That depends on whether you subscribe to a belief that puts the individual above the group, or in a belief that puts the group above the individual.

      Americans tend to fall into the first category, while asians tend to fall into the second. So if you fall into the first, you will have to step out of your frame of reference for a moment to follow the argument:

      The king is important to the group (the country). He unifies the Thai people through changes of government, coups, whatever happens - there is always the king. His image is important to the self-image of the Thai people. Damaging his image is damaging the identity of the Thai.

      For the average Thai, an insult to the king is not directed towards the human being that is the king, but at the entity of the king as the representation of the Thai nation - in other words, an insult on every Thai.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    17. Re:democracy by Tom · · Score: 2

      Took a while until someone reached that point.

      I totally have an opinion. I think that jail time is way excessive, but knowing Thai society a little, a fine would be most appropriate.

      My point is not that I support the legislation. My point is exposing the arrogance of outsiders insisting that whatever their particular culture thinks should be the way for every other culture as well.

      I do believe there are moral absolutes - evolution isn't relative. Some things are better for physical survival, and some things are better for the advancement of society. But you need to prove that your standards actually are superior, not just blankly state them as the only right way.

      I am certain that secular western society is objectively better in many regards than, say, oppressive Sharia rule under the Taliban in Afghanistan. But I also believe that we are doing ourselves a great disservice by not focussing on why our way is better, and by doing so failing to see the many ways in which it isn't.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    18. Re:democracy by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      There has to be a sensible balance between individual rights and governmental rights

      - governments don't have rights, only individuals have rights.

      The problem in the US and other Western democracies is that the rights of entities other than individuals have become excessive. That is a natural property of the free market, since corporate rights are cheaper than individual rights and a "free market" implicitly gives 100% of the liberty to the corporate entities.

      - where in the "Western democracies" have you seen these 'free markets' exactly? Even Switzerland is not really a free market and to talk about USA as if it has any type of free market is a joke.

      Governments must not be allowed to change the laws at all actually, laws must be followed and they must remain stable, otherwise the economy and society will be destroyed.

      Thinking that governments must be allowed to pass new laws and expecting the economy and society to be able to survive this is like thinking that having a Universe with laws of physics that are changing all the time is somehow conducive to creation of life.

      You can't have life created in a Universe if the laws of physics are being constantly modified, because the basics are changing all the time. If the basic thing like F=ma cannot be trusted upon not to change year to year, then you can't have anything non-primitive built upon that.

    19. Re:democracy by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      That's not a RIGHT. They have the POWER to do it.

      It's the power that they have, but government cannot have a right.

      I have debated the concept of what a 'right' is here enough, but I think it's a first time somebody says that governments have rights.

    20. Re:democracy by societyofrobots · · Score: 2

      All major laws cannot be enacted in Thailand without the explicit approval of the King. You can verify this by reading the 2007 Constitution. Publicly, Thai royalty has no influence on the laws. But you'll see otherwise if you read wikileaks.

      The pardoning is only for those who have less than 3 years left of their sentence, and only once a year. Those accused of Lese Majeste typically have 5 to 20 year sentences. You're likely to spend several years in prison before being asked to sign a statement that you love the king before you can be released.

  6. Pesky foreigners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Don't they know their laws don't apply to Americans!

  7. Girth by Das+Auge · · Score: 5, Funny

    My girth assures me that I am, indeed, an America.

    1. Re:Girth by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Funny

      figures....

      he's a girther!

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  8. Way to go, Thailand. by Pi1grim · · Score: 4, Funny

    Damn, this simply calls for bait and switch technique.
    1. Post a video of a cat hugging a kitten
    2. Collect a whole load of "likes"
    3. Switch the video for something different entirely
    4. Land a lot of people in jail for up to 15 years.

  9. Re:Who is "they" by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just to expand on this slightly: The Napoleon in your link is Napoleon III, the bumbling fool who fancied himself a military genius but pretty much lost all his major war adventures. He was nothing like Napoleon I, who lived 50 years earlier, and brought the ideals of the French revolution to all of Europe.

  10. Insult #47 by cvtan · · Score: 3, Funny

    Personally, I believe the King carrying such a long sword clearly is a futile attempt to compensate for other shortcomings.

    --
    Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
  11. Very true. by jd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The grossest example for copyright being the Russian who was arrested for a DMCA violation by breaking Adobe copy protection whilst in Russia. On security, a pilot was arrested in the UK on the orders of the US after 9/11. They wanted him deported without the required deportation hearing and without knowing what he was charged with. The UK ultimately refused, gave him an extradition hearing, and he proved his total innocence of the charge. Had the UK not done that, he'd be in Gitmo to this day with no rights and no knowledge of even the charges made.

    This doesn't make the UK particularly heroic - obeying its own laws should not be considered exceptional, it should be considered the norm. The UK was also involved in a number of renditions that DID violate UK law, just not that one.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  12. Time article on Thailand's lese majeste law by Dahan · · Score: 4, Informative

    FYI, here's an informative/interesting article from Time magazine: What's Behind Thailand's Lèse Majesté Crackdown?

    tl;dr: it's used as a political tool to silence/jail one's enemies--while the law has been around forever, prosecutions skyrocketed after the 2006 coup that ousted the prime minister as the different political parties fight for power. The king himself has publically stated that he doesn't support the lese majeste law, and no member of the royal family has ever filed a lese majeste charge.

  13. Re:Who is "they" by NoMaster · · Score: 2

    Or the old joke about the American on holidays in Romania during the 80's - he was in a bar, chatting to a local, and asked him "what do you think about Ceausescu?"

    The local frowned, pointed to all the people in the bar, put his finger to his lips, and motioned for the visitor to come outside.

    Out in the street, the American asked again: "What do you think about Ceausescu?". The local shook his head, gestured to indicate all the people passing by on the street, and walked into a side alley.

    The American followed him again, and half-way down the dark alley grabbed the local by the shoulder and hissed "Tell me what you think about Ceausescu?"

    The local looked up and down the alley, and spied a shadowy figure in a long jacket standing on a balcony smoking. Shaking his head and pointing, he stepped back into a dark doorway, and gestured for the American to follow him.

    The American stepped into the dark, and whispered "So, tell me what you really think about Ceausescu?"

    The local took one last look around, stood up on tip-toe, and whispered into the American's ear "I like him!"

    (Damned /. and its utter failure to handle extended Latin characters...)

    --
    What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
  14. Re:Compare McLibel by jklovanc · · Score: 2

    Starting with "If" generally invalidated everything said after it. To equate English libel laws with the Thai lese majeste laws you must do the research. It is not up to the reader to find out whether or not the "if" is true. Add "if" to "might" and the statement is without weight.

  15. The king has no control by AlecC · · Score: 5, Informative

    Precisely - he is, and knows he is, a figurehead, and he should not interfere in the democratic process. His only interventions have been calmly to ask the politicians to get their act together and stop behaving like spoiled children (free translation). It is one faction of politicians who build him up for their own purposes. He cannot interfere with the law without interfering with democracy. He can then pardon those convicted. It is one of the problems of a constitutional monarchy that things done in the monarch's name are actually totally, out of the control of the monarch. His function is roughly the same as the flag in the US - something to salute, and produce prominently on state occasions, but not as functional part of the legislations. These laws are roughly like the rules, which some consider laws, about respectful treatment of the Stars and Stripes.

    --
    Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.