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Was Conficker Stuxnet's Trojan?
Rambo Tribble writes "Reuters has published a provocative article describing the findings of cyberwarfare expert John Bumgarner, a former Army intelligence officer. His contention is that Conficker identified targets, then opened the door for Stuxnet. 'His analysis challenges a common belief that Conficker was built by an Eastern European criminal gang to engage in financial fraud. The worm's latent state had been a mystery for some time. It appears never to have been activated in the computers it infected, and security experts have speculated that the program was abandoned by those who created it because they feared getting caught after Conficker was subjected to intense media scrutiny. If confirmed, Bumgarner's work could deepen understanding of how Stuxnet's commanders ran the cyber operation that last year sabotaged an underground facility at Natanz, where Iranian scientists are enriching uranium using thousands of gas centrifuges.'"
No current operating system is immune to exploits. An accurate statement would be 'I use apple because their low population in the wild makes them unpopular targets for malware authors to write exploits for'.
"I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he is an expert on cyberhacking too. This likely is a big FUD generated by this government-employed guy to make America seem more powerful. Conficker did much more damage to the US to be worth doing something like that.
Anyone worried about Stuxnet or a successor popping up has probably completely ditched Windows PCs.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Don't give him too hard a time. He was probably hacked and some script kiddie is posting on his account from his iDevice...
Check your premises.
Nope, nothing to see here. No big industrial equipment runs Mac OS so ruling out those systems means nothing in this case.
http://www.aaronrogier.net
This thread is like a Santa Ana whoosh.
A lot of trojans may operate that way (it's certainly the path of least resistance) but social engineering is not a requirement for something to be a trojan.
If it really did enter a system, have a peek around and open it up for Stuxnet why would trojan be a misnomer?
First, where do you think the term trojan comes from? It is because of the mythical story that a trojan is called a trojan.
Second,
term for malware that relies on social engineering.
That is not what the term means. It is similar to the mythical story. A program you want contains a program you don't. The line may blur across a spectrum for what defines a virus, trojan, worm etc. None are defined by relying on social engineering although all may use it.
It also seems possible that whoever wrote Stuxnet had pulled apart one or more pre-existing worms out there and decided to commandeer one, or at least collect intelligence from it. I mean, if someone has already done a bunch of dirty work for you, and you can piggy back on it "safely", then you have an effective vector for fast initial deployment.
Program Intellivision!
No current operating system is immune to exploits. An accurate statement would be 'I use apple because their low population in the wild makes them unpopular targets for malware authors to write exploits for'.
I use Apple because I fear an alien invasion.
They're using our own signal against us!
If this was released by the US government, could infections in the government of other countries be considered an act of war? After all it is theft of resources and corruption of data.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I'm doubting this story.
Admittingly, the following two clues as to who the author(s) of Conficker are, are circumstantial, but i would like to offer them to you guys for consideration since this behavior from Conficker has been observed and documented -
1.
"Once Conficker [A] infects a system, it includes a keyboard layout check, via the GetKeyboardLayout API, to determine whether the victim is currently using the Ukrainian keyboard layout. If so, [A] will exit without infecting the system. This suicide exit scheme has been observed in other malware-related software, such as Baka Software's Antivirus XP Trojan installer."
The suggestion is that Conficker's author(s) were trying to avoid violating the local laws of their native country. Presumably Ukraine (who's laws concerning computer crime seem to have several loopholes).
Source
2.
In a honeynet, there was a connection observed of the [B] variant of Conficker using variant [A]'s protocol to take over a machine already infected with Variant [A]... so it was Conficker trying to replace variant [A] with Variant [B]. For several reasons (located in the source link below), it is suggested the packet captured was an instance of Conficker testing it's own robust nature to not be taken over by another author or virus.
The significance of this is the "hybrid" packet described above came from an address owned by, again, Baka Software in the Ukraine.
Source
I use apple because their low population in the wild makes them unpopular targets for malware authors to write exploits for.
So, what's Linux' excuse, considering vast numbers of it installed on servers and numerous other devices power the web?
Hint: fragility makes Win* the preferred target, not popularity.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
who gives a flying fuck?
You buy the plane ticket, and I will. Well, with consenting stewardesses, that is.
Or am I missing something here?
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
They sent it down to us via the SETI radio astronomy antennas. From there it spread using the SETI@home grid. The aliens became alarmed when Werner von Braun started playing with rockets, and started on a long term program to thwart what they saw as an effort from us to plaster them with rockets. The Voyager and Galileo probes were actually built to scout out potential targets of alien weapons of mass cosmic destruction. When briefed about our program, the alien Supreme Leader cursed at the German scientist, and his plans, and his meddling kids, and called him a "fucker." The label with the aliens stuck, so they named their worm "Con-Ficker", "ficker" being German for "fucker" and "con" meaning "against." "Con-ficker", "Against-fucker" . . . Aliens pissed off at German Earthlings rocketry tom-foolery . . . write a virus to control us . . . send it down to the SETI folks, who are foolish enough to be looking for aliens anyway . . . or maybe clever enough to spot alien targets.
It all falls into place if you really think about it.
Probably.
At least my wacky speculation is as plausible as that from anyone else. And mine is definitely wackier. Lasts longer. Tastes better.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I know just the stew. She was PSA,,in 1972. Consenting is an understatement. Good luck to you.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Like the saying goes: If builders built buildings the way that programmers wrote programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Like the saying goes: If builders built buildings the way that programmers wrote programs ...
Shitty saying. There's another (paraphrased): Crap programmers can write crap programs in any language.
Still another: An idea is not responsible for those who hold it. Just because Bill Gates had no idea what he was doing, doesn't mean all programmers have no idea what they're doing. Sweeping generalizations are *always* wrong.
Some (many?) crap programmers have created many deplorable situations. Happily, I'm one of the guys who gets called in to clean up their messes. When I leave, the problem's solved, never to return. They're left with one less unmaintainable mess.
May dmr's ghost haunt you to your grave, and beyond. >:-(
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
I am afraid, that connection between Conficker and Stuxnet is only speculation. Present cybercriminal world is too complicated and you can see connection nearly between everything, if you want...
Bad comparison. Much better one would be "arsonist".
And arsonists did destroy entire portions of the cities when successful before we perfected fire fighting and started building less buildings out of wood and worked on improved fire safety of said buildings.
It's Ukraine, no "the"
While I would agree that Microsoft has made progress with Windows, it remains the only widely-used operating system for which failure to run an anti-virus program exposes the user's computer to a substantial risk of being infected with malware.
There are still fundamental flaws in its design and implementation which make it less secure than its alternatives. With Linux, it's relatively trivial for me to eliminate entire vectors for attack - i.e. I could care less about apache vulnerabilities because I simply don't run it. The same isn't true for Windows - in the first place, it's a monolithic, integrated OS which requires much more code for basic functionality - and in the second, even if the user could remove unused software components, the average Windows user wouldn't understand how or why they might want to.
Today, I'm looking up modelines for my A90 monitor, because I want to run at greater than 1024x768. In Windows, I wouldn't even have to know what a modeline is. However, I'd be stuck with a system that ran slowly because of the inevitable AV software I'd have to run. While I would appreciate it if Debian just got it right with respect to monitor detection, I'd rather endure the drudgery of X configuration once, than deal with a slow and unreliable computer every day. Of course, you may prefer the opposite.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
I have a linux box at my office next to a windows machine. The linux box has been broken two times.... that I know of, since the absence of linux AV software means that most intrusions likely go undetected. My windows box has been broken into once.
The OP is right. Linux is no safer than windows, and numbers are the main attraction. As popular as Linux is, it has very few network facing boxes than can be taken over.
Um, you mean how everything requires .NET to run, and how MS required IE for just about everything until long after NT?
It's not monolithic in the microkernel way, but the rat's nest of dependencies make it very difficult for the average person to run the typical system without either running everything, or nothing at all. If you're going to ask the user to delete DLLs and edit the registry, they may as well be running Linux.
I suppose I've been fortunate, though - I haven't had to deal with any version of Windows after XP. The fact that most businesses haven't upgraded in 8 years is telling. Maybe they just got tired of Microsoft's empty promises.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
I have a linux box at my office next to a windows machine. The linux box has been broken two times.... that I know of, since the absence of linux AV software means that most intrusions likely go undetected.
FUD!
Clamav is old tech., if you insist on running AV software. Usually, the only reason you'd use it is your Linux box is the mailserver for your LAN's Win*/Mac boxes, and you don't want to pass malware on to them.
A properly configured *nix box won't be susceptible to malware, since they can only affect a user's $HOME, not the underlying system. Use a bulletproof root password, ensure only necessary services are running and are secured, and there's no reason why a *nix box would fall prey to any of the !@#$ that affects Win* daily.
Last I heard, > 70% of the net is driven by *nix in one form or another. Why is it that Google isn't pwned daily? :-O
IOW, BS.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Yes! Linux is suspectable as much as Windows absolutely
How do hackers break into computers? ... both are on Linux as well)
1. Buffer overflows (Anything written in C/C++)
2. Vector attacks (Flash, Java
3. Social engineering tricks
4. Buggy exception handling where you can get the program to run your injected code by knowing where the computer will look up the ram address when it throws an exception
5. Sql injection
Linux has every single problem Windows has as it is written in C which adds all the vulnerabilities associated with it. Linux machines are targeted because they are more than likely servers on the net and you can do some phishing, insert SEO ads for malware trojaned clones of Firefox, Chrome and other programs (Bing served them too), can be used to steal credit card information on customers, etc. Windows is ahead because it supports DEP, ASLR, and special compilations in VC 9 to make sure no exception handling gets thrown insecurely. With random address layering it makes it very hard to exploit a vector attack and Linux doesn't even support it. Add then that anti virus products on Windows shield and do more than scan a system after it is infected make Windows more secure. Does Linux even know the difference between executable vs storage data? VMS and mainframes had this protection for years and is a problem for Linux if it does not fully support it as it still is for XP.
By more secure I mean Widows 7 with IE 9 and Office 2010. Not Windows XP, IE 6, Mcaffe 2003. The fact that even slashdotters now think WindowsXP is an awesome OS that is stable and perfect for business in 2011 is nausating and it is true activeX and RPC made XP/IE 6 very insecure. But that is not true anymore. More malware writters do not even target Windows anymore but simply Flash, Java, and Chrome. If you run Linux as a workstation it is just as vulnerable if not more because distros do not update software as quickly as these do on Windows.
Your example of passowrds and configuring a system properly only go so far as this was the pre-2000 way to secure a system from dictionary attacks or password sniffing. Today it is to smash stacks, overrun buffers, and find exploits etc. UAC, root/non-root wont matter as an exploit simply goes around it and talks directly to the hardware.
http://saveie6.com/
A properly configured *nix box won't be susceptible to malware, since they can only affect a user's $HOME, not the underlying system.
Do you really think that the only way to break into a box, be it linux or windows, is through the user doing something wrong?
Do you even know what a port is and that the programs listening on them more often than not run in superuser mode?
Last I heard, > 70% of the net is driven by *nix in one form or another.
I don't even know what that means. The routers most definitely do not run *nix.
Web servers are often unix boxen and usually they are secure not because of a strong OS, but because of other measures (close all ports, restart virtual servers often, very limited functionality, no user account login, etc).
The clients, which are the other half of the web run mostly Windows and unix-based OS X. Now that Macs are popular we see that they are being broken into more and more often.
Why is it that Google isn't pwned daily? :-O
This is such an inane argument. I'll rephrase it for you:
Most of Microsoft servers run windows. Why is it that Microsoft isn't pwned daily?
This proves nothing. Both Google and M$ have an army of engineers keeping their system clean and alive. The question is what happens to a properly patched linux box vs a windows box.
And the facts remain that my linux boxes were broken into. Clearly you can't handle this, so you claim that I'm making it up. Whatever, if you need to believe that to sleep soundly at night, sure, it didn't happen. I was just joking.
Do you even know what a port is and that the programs listening on them more often than not run in superuser mode?
Fuck. Off!
Last I heard, > 70% of the net is driven by *nix in one form or another.
I don't even know what that means. The routers most definitely do not run *nix.
Uh huh. WRT: Bonehead!
Why is it that Google isn't pwned daily? :-O
This is such an inane argument.
Damn, what a lamer.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Fuck. Off!
Such depth of thought, such clarity in your arguments. Wow!
Uh huh. WRT: Bonehead!
That's a link to a wireless router/NAT box. Those drive your home LAN, not the internet.
These are the routers that drive the internet. They most definitely not run unix.