Sub-$100 Android 4.0 Tablet Coming Soon

jfruhlinger writes "One of the reasons the iPad has stayed at the top of the tablet heap for so long is that — in contrast with the story of the Mac and PC 25 years ago — the iPad has remained competitive with its rivals on price. That may be starting to change, with cheaper tablets like the Amazon Fire coming to market. And now, the sub-$100 Novo7 is on sale in China, sporting Android 4.0. It promises to arrive in the U.S. for a similar price point soon." The official press release from MIPS has a bit more detail. Of interest is the use of a MIPS SoC designed by Ingenic.

Comments

Capacitive screen

[Albanach]

The problem with the other cheap android tablets has been the resistive screens. If the article is correct and this has a capacitive screen it could revolutionize the tablet market.

Re:Capacitive screen

[obarthelemy]

That one is capacitive. I actually bought their earlier effort, the $150 Novo8, and was pleasantly surprised: 8", 1280x800 capacitive TN, HD video playback with HDMI, OK build quality. What spoiled that was the 3hr battery life, but I knew that before buying it.

Re:Capacitive screen

[tom17]

It will never work. It has a rectangular shape, rounded corners and a flat screen with narrow borders. How could they so blatantly rip off someone elses design like that!

Re:Capacitive screen

[jefe7777]

I like mine with fat juicy borders anyway...

Re:Capacitive screen

[mcvos]

I have a cheap EUR 140 Dropad with a capacitive screen. Cheap quality (the power connection broke after half a year), but unlike the article suggests, it does have Android Market access.

Re:Capacitive screen

[postbigbang]

Resistive or capacitive, the ones I've tried are junk. You get what you pay for. They're not cheap to make and getting support from Chinese-based organizations has been frustratingly difficult for me. Others may have had different experiences, but there's a different expectation set by mainstream vendors, that while being occasionally ugly, isn't the total lack of support that I've seen from direct Chinese sources.

Don't expect iPad or Xoom quality at a low price point.

Re:Capacitive screen

[afidel]

I bought my kids an Arnova 10 G2 which is available with a capacitive screen for $191, not bad for a 10" tablet with a 1Ghz processor, 512MB of ram, 4GB of internal storage and an SD slot. The stock rom is a bit limited but there's a rooted ROM with Google apps available from the community. I'm looking forward to ICS since Archos has already shown it on tablets running the same processor. The battery life is pretty good too, probably 8 hours if you're not playing flash heavy content. I left it for a day with WiFi turned off and the battery only went down 1%.

Re:Capacitive screen

[Hadlock]

140 EUR is roughly $200 usd, double the cost of the device in the article. Although, if France and Germany don't get their act together quickly, your post will become much more relevant in about three months :)

Re:Capacitive screen

[mcvos]

Yet for some reason, many items tend to cost the same in euros as they do in dollars. Taxes, customs and shipping, I suppose.

Honestly, this one might have been $140 originally. I really can't recall anymore.

Re:Capacitive screen

[dunkelfalke]

To be honest I don't understand the capacitive scren craze. Resistive screens are much more precise and you can use them with gloves and with a stylus.

Re:Capacitive screen

[tlhIngan]

Yet for some reason, many items tend to cost the same in euros as they do in dollars. Taxes, customs and shipping, I suppose.

And differences in pricing.

You see, in North America, our prices are sans taxes. That $140 will be $155 after Canadian taxes, for example. Plus environmental fees and the like.

In Europe, you have stuff like 20% VAT and 20% duties and such, which are built into the price. Your EUR140 device, you pay EUR140.

And nevermind the various consumer protection laws (which are much stronger in Europe). 90 day warranties are common in North America, you'd have to buy extended warranties ($40+) to get to your 2 year guaranteed by EU laws and such.

Re:Capacitive screen

[sexconker]

To be honest I don't understand the capacitive scren craze. Resistive screens are much more precise and you can use them with gloves and with a stylus.

A million times this. Resistive screens are superior in just about every way.

Re:Capacitive screen

[mrchaotica]

Resistive screens can't use multitouch and can't be covered in a protective coating (like Gorilla Glass).

Also, if you want to use a stylus (and I would too), then the proper solution is a Wacom-style digitizer, not a resistive screen.

Re:Capacitive screen

[s73v3r]

Resistive screens are much more precise and you can use them with gloves and with a stylus.

Most people really don't want to have to deal with a stylus. They get lost easily.

Capacitive screens are quite precise themselves, and are good enough in that department. They are also much easier to use with just fingers than a resistive screen.

Re:Capacitive screen

[b0bby]

Three words - pinch to zoom.

Plus most people spend most of their time without gloves on, and you can get a capacitive stylus for a couple of bucks.

Re:Capacitive screen

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately the Kindle Fire's screen isn't apple-perfect either... though cm7 now works on it and the same guy is working on ICS. It's not oob ICS goodness, but with a 8hr battery life, a pretty good screen and reasonable speed, it's not bad for $200. Of course Amazon is selling them near cost, so they can do that.

Re:Capacitive screen

[Anonymous Coward]

If you need support to use an android tablet - I'm not sure the quality of the tablet is the problem... :)

Maybe you mean Customer Service?

Re:Capacitive screen

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a rena3 chinapad and a xoom, the rena3 is great.

Re:Capacitive screen

[roc97007]

I'm really tired of hearing "you get what you pay for" as an excuse for paying inflated prices for fanboi products. For an established product that's priced in true relation to its build quality, that might be true, but for relatively new products or products with artificially high profit margins, it is most definitely not true. Sometimes what you get is inversely related to what you pay for it.

Mind you, the buyer should beware, but there are deals to be made if you know what to look for.

Re:Capacitive screen

[Nyder]

...

Don't expect iPad or Xoom quality at a low price point.

Seriously?

Re:Capacitive screen

[postbigbang]

It's often a reality. Yes, there are good and decent values out there, but by and large, price and value have a proportionate correlation. High margins can be dishonorable, or they could be part of intelligent capital endeavor.

I don't like to pay retail. I like a deal. But the Chinese tablets I've ordered and tried are no deal. They break, and the companies selling them don't back up their "deals", and they don't support the product, and the products don't hold up. That may change, and I expect it will. I'm TRYING to find a sweet spot, but to label me a fanboi is one of your larger mistakes of the month so far.

And I'll stand by the correlation I made. Good shoppers get good deals.

Re:Capacitive screen

[roc97007]

> It's often a reality. Yes, there are good and decent values out there, but by and large, price and value have a proportionate correlation.

I disagree. Especially in electronics, price has very little to do with complexity and build quality, and just about everything to do with mindshare. Look, we're all geeks here -- we can't think of any examples of stuff that's overpriced for the (a) cost of manufacture and (b) actual value of the product in relation to competition for same? Or products that were superior in concept and construction but were sold at firesale prices due to poor marketing or vendor abandonment?

Re:Capacitive screen

[postbigbang]

Sure. There are some items that are lopsided and of really high value. That's what value is all about: perceived currency for item bought.

There are all sorts of things that are on dailysteals, woot, slickdeals, and two dozen more sites. These are items that are sold below their manufacturing cost. There are loss leaders, discounted in the hopes you'll buy something with more margin to make up for it.

The HP TouchPad is a nice example of primal stupidity, with an outstanding hardware platform. It's beautiful. But you need to trash the WebOS on it and put something different on it to make it worthwhile.

Behind the product is a vendor, who may or may not have support (and incumbent costs) to make a product sell well, especially to clueless civilians. They pay more for that because it's of value to them. Several sites have done a COGS analysis on the iPad models to see how much money *exactly* Apple is making on them. It's not cheap. Apple's margin is comparatively thin. But it's positive, and they have their supply chain enslaved and at capacity so the actual price is probably a bit less than the exact book price quoted.

People do indeed buy a lot of vendor reputation and that's meaningful to them. If you're an electronics geek, you know actual versus marketing hype and can make value judgments that suit *you* because you're a self-maintaining person capable of circumventing the non-hard costs of a product.

But junk is junk, and especially in electronics. When I buy mobos from various vendors, some of these guys do a genuinely lousy job. On a good day, you can get a nice workstation with the drivers you need to do the job. On a bad day, you're SOL and there is not a thing you can do except pray.

Firesale prices are marketing, not product mistakes. When things go below cost, it hurts. Yes, buyers benefit, but there's a floor and ceiling price they'll pay. It's capitalism at work.

Re:Capacitive screen

[EETech1]

My HTC touch, touch diamond, touch pro and touch pro 2 had (while they did not support multi-touch) very excellent transparent resistive touch screens. They worked very well selecting and scrolling with your finger or stylus or glove or whatever you touched them with.

I was torn when switching to capacitive after using a good resistive screen, and mostly I miss it due to issues with the capacitive screen getting hosed by a single raindrop or sweat from my face, or a glove, or dirty finger. I also was excited that the capacitive screen should have less problems with nonmeaty inputs resulting in erroneous calls, but it seems to do whatever it likes far more than the resistive ones did.

EVO 4G only example of capacitive screen, YMMV of course.

Cheers

* Since its Christmas, I still have 2 brand new Alltel TP's and 2 (1 new 1 maybe lost) Alltel and maybe a Verizon TP2 laying around if anyone can put them to good use! The Alltel devices can no longer be activated on a Verizon system, and i can't guarantee you'll be able to use any of them on Alltel any more. Email me at rot13 oynpxjbbq+serrcubarngtznvy.pbz with what you wanna do with them, and I might decide you're more worthy than my junk drawer!

Re:Capacitive screen

[roc97007]

> Sure. There are some items that are lopsided and of really high value. That's what value is all about: perceived currency for item bought.

Yeah, but that leads you to a place where you're chasing your tail. That the value of a product is based on the fanboi's perception of value is a circular argument. Then "you get what you paid for" may only mean that there's a certain symbol embossed on the shiny casing. It makes pointless the discussion of actual capabilities or usefulness.

This leads you to a bizarre place where given two products identical in build and function, one of which is cheaper, the more expensive is by nature more valuable simply because people will pay more for it. I think this misunderstands the difference between "value" and "cost".

Or perhaps you're looking at it from the vendor's perspective? The vendor would of course have a different idea of what "value" means.

Re:Capacitive screen

[EETech1]

+2 on that!
More room to embellish them with blinggetty-bling and to incorporate those needless buttons as well!

Fake crystal home button anyone? Or perhaps a heavily embellished house-shaped 3D home button?

Finally... I think if you call it Phat and embellished you can take that up +3 TDF (Tablet Domination Factor) no matter what OS!

Re:Capacitive screen

[EETech1]

I think I only lost one stylus out of about the 20 that I've had. Later phones came with 2 though, so I'd bet lots of folks did! Any of the devices that needed them had on board storage for them, so as long as you got in the habit of always putting them back, you rarely lost them.

Re:Capacitive screen

[ozmanjusri]

The Novo 7 I bought comes with a stylus. It works well, though doesn't feel as precise as a Wacom.

Re:Capacitive screen

[postbigbang]

I have two dead (screen) HTC Touch Pros. I'm looking at them as I write this. Both were eBay purchases, out of warranty and worked when they arrived. Both died and now lay there, bricked, to remind me that I won't buy HTC again. But this is my experience, and yours obviously varies. Now I use a Droid something, and it's worked well. It's in warranty.....

Re:Capacitive screen

[postbigbang]

I didn't say that I thought the fanboi rationale was valid. I said that there's a correlation between price and value.

Symbolism, marketing, and various grey-scale shades of magic notwithstanding, value is in the eye of both the beholder, and the beholder's need. A 19" spare tire does nothing for me unless I have a vehicle that uses one, and then a replacement is valued X. I'll pay X++ for a replacement if I'm in a vehicle with a flat 19" tire, no spare, on a cold wet night with a bunch of screaming kids in the back.

Value is a transient proposition for the very largest part. Today's fad is tomorrow's junk until it might have antique value. Computers generally don't have antique value because their value of tools has the shelf life of hamburger on a hot windowsill. Both of them had value when you bought them, whatever you paid for them. In a year, both of them are bad meat.

Re:Capacitive screen

[EETech1]

Bummer you didn't have the same luck I did. 2 of them, I had completely destroyed the screens with multiple cracks in the plastic between the touch screen and LCD, both of them still worked flawlessly (long enough to get home and be replaced by insurance) I do remember having a problem with the ribbon cable to the LCD causing it to flake out, but IIRC it was an assembly problem and easily reseated.

All in all I've had pretty good luck with a fair number of them hardware-wise. I think I've had 8 different HTC phones, all of them besides the unactivatable TP's still being enjoyed by friends, or their friends as technology hand me downs to replace their broken phones. I used to have fun driving tech support crazy over buggy software to the point where I had 3 or 4 more phones than they could keep track of. ATT to Cingular to ATT and Alltel to Verizon mergers created lots of unactivatable replacement phones that were useless and forgotten. I'd just unlock them, reflash firmware and go, but the tech support people could not authorize it, so they just kept sending brand new in the box incompatible phones. Insurance sends ATT sim in a Cingular phone. Call local store and get SIM unlock code, call Cingular warranty get another phone. repeat...

I still have 7 friends using my old WinMo phones, 3 Audiovox SMTs 2 HTC/Cingular 2125, 1 HTC/Cingular 8125 and an ATT Tilt with various GSM carriers:) All lost in the shuffle from ATT to Cingular to ATT. They didn't even want them back when I tried to send them!

The CDMA phones are of similar fate, but are not as easy to reuse on Verizon. If I gave one to an existing Verizon old Alltel customer on an Alltel plan yet it worked fine with *228. Now Verizon's CS supposedly can't even do it, and all my Alltel Verizon friends are already (and still) using TPs from before the Merger because the Verizon TP2 is stripped down junk compared to the Alltel / HTC / rest_of_the_world version.

Cheers

Re:Capacitive screen

[roc97007]

> I didn't say that I thought the fanboi rationale was valid. I said that there's a correlation between price and value.

Yes yes, I spent several years in technical marketing, I know the arguments. There is no direct correlation between price and value. Beyond recouping NRE, manufacturing costs and overhead, it's completely artificial. But that artifice keeps people employed, and serves to keep prices artificially high. From a vendor's standpoint, it's all cake.

Re:Capacitive screen

[postbigbang]

Way bummer.

I have the HTC TPs, several Treos, all to be given to a friend of mine for target practice (will recycle the batteries). She promises YouTube links when she's done. I can't wait.

The Droid just works, altho Verizon had re-written the kernel 2x now to kill rootkits. Too bad about that. GSM in my neighborhood is just awful, but I have a G1 with a SIM for the times when the Verizon tower goes south. Barring that, I stand on the roof with flags.

Re:Capacitive screen

[postbigbang]

Ultimately, it's not artificial, although there are lots of variables, as you cite. The ruse is frustrating, but your contention of "artificial" is a point of perspective, whether you're buyer, seller, or stockholder.

You can argue the viewpoint of any or all three. When I'm the buyer, I have the same set of values; I'm essentially a sole prop, so also the stockholder. I know my worth. Me + $2.43 gets you a grande Americano at Starbucks. Shrug.

Re:Capacitive screen

[obarthelemy]

Apple had a stranglehold on component supplies, which really prevented price competition. Supply has adjusted now, so we should see the usual price spread Apple/Sony/Wannabees vs rest of the world fairly soon. Wannabees do seem to include Motorola, who seem to think they deserve Apple margins while having none of the flair, and, frankly not even putting in the hard design work and support.
Also, maybe the market will mature. Android has all the apps needed now, so Apple can't use that argument. And the thinness thing baffles me. I got a cheap Touchpad, all the teens were "Oh, it's too thick !" as if thickness was of any relevance for a 10" sedentary tablet, and even for a mobile one (though I much prefer 7" for mobile use)... I'm awed at Apple's ability to set the agenda here.

Re:Capacitive screen

[obarthelemy]

Like phones, tablets straddle the line between fashion accessory and computer. I'm fairly sure aesthetics and social consideration weigh a lot in many purchase decisions. So good deals must be available somewhere for those willing to disregard design and fashion.

Re:Capacitive screen

[postbigbang]

If you walk into a "drugstore" and look at the cosmetics aisles, presuming you're a male, you'll be absolutely mystified because the value proposition of cosmetics is total mystery to men.

Women, however, can give you chapter and verse and a "war story". There is a herd, it moves, and it then assigns somewhat arbitrary but often predictable values to what it's doing. The size of the herd then determines characteristics necessary to market to it, what vendors will do, and how efficiently they'll carry out the mission.

There will be competitors after the "beachhead" phase as everyone struggles for marketshare. Noise will create inefficiencies all through the process, and bargains will be had by those that guessed incorrectly all through the food chain and lifecycle of the greenfield where the herd moved.

Then, the herd will move on. Rinse, repeat.

Re:Capacitive screen

[EETech1]

I also donated a few of my less favorite or bricked devices to our company trap shoot!

Re:Capacitive screen

[dunkelfalke]

Resistive screens can use multitouch.

Re:Capacitive screen

[Anonymous Coward]

i'm currently reading this on a 10.2 inch superpad with a capacitive multitouch screen. it cost me 150 bucks.

Re:Capacitive screen

[EETech1]

I have a touch pro in near new condition however without a battery and battery cover! What better way to recycle your battery than to have it provide juice to my batteryless one! I will gladly send it to you if you want to make a working unit out of them, and give it to someone as an MP3 / video player, WiFi webcruiser, organizer, widget to pass time with!

I am rid of 1 TP2!

We have a homeless guy around town that has been walking the streets as long as I can remember, and I gave him my old brand new TP2 with 2 extended batteries, 2 chargers, and a small solar panel. Now he can find open WiFi, and cruise the internet use Skype all the Google services, and whatever else he wants. I filled up an 8 GB microSD with the manual, music and movies, and a bunch of free books and a Wikipedia dump, precached maps of the city with phone #s, first aid info, and loaded it up with programs, and found the cases I had for it, and put it all in a zippered lined locking shaving travel bag I had laying around. It only took me a couple hours to get it ready, but what a wonderful use for something that would otherwise spend it's remaining days getting older, and older, shuffled from the kitchen junk drawer, to the basement junk drawer, to the junk box, and ultimately lost forever... To the great tangle of cords!

I saw him the other day after these posts, and it seemed like a great idea, and it was! I got it ready and went looking for him downtown. We went to the library and I spent a couple hours showing him what was all there, and how to use it, got him signed into his gmail account, and signed up for facebook, and Twitter. And he went and took his picture with everyone he knew in the library, and took a bunch of pictures of the pictures on the wall, and some of his favorite book pictures.
He has his own computer (and camera / camcorder) now, and I'll bet it gets lots of use! Certainly more than my junk drawer was using it!

Even if he does trade it for smokes... Which I doubt he will!

Re:Capacitive screen

[postbigbang]

Good for you; a great re-use of technology.

Re:Capacitive screen

[EETech1]

It was one of my more enjoyable reset and restores as well!

If you have any use for the touch pro(s) let me know. It'd be nice to see your battery live out its useful life, and a brand new 3 year old top of the line ultra portable computer get used at least once!

Cheers

Re:Capacitive screen

[postbigbang]

Thanks... one sits on the shelf (long story). I suggest your creative recycling efforts can be re-used again. I'm amused that my original post was trampled down, then floats back up again.

Not really...

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason the iPad is successful is because it isn't sluggish. If the Kindle Fire is sluggish at $200, I doubt this will be an iPad-killer at sub-$100.

Re:Not really...

[Joce640k]

Progress marches on...

Re:Not really...

[ozmanjusri]

I just bought a couple of these, though the current versions still have Android 2.3. They're remarkably well made for the price, and also remarkably responsive to use. They're not an iPad killer in that they're only 7" and 800 x 480 screens, but that doesn't mean they won't find their own niche.

Re:Not really...

[Riceballsan]

I don't know, until we see it we won't know much on the performance levels of it, but I do think there is a market for even a slugish cheap tablet. Durring the tablet craze, I got myself an netbook for $99, it's a cheap piece of crap, barely can handle flash games, but for basic utility purposes, reading, browsing the web etc... I still cannot wrap my head around the tablet craze or what makes them worth $500, to me they seem to be a fairly comfortable device, that can do almost as much as a low end laptop, almost the same size as middle end laptop, at the price of... a middle of the line laptop, but hey you can get a keyboard for it for only $20-$80 extra and make it even closer to a laptop!

Re:Not really...

[Wild_dog!]

It is really nice to have devices that work well and like you said...there are lots of niches to fill because people use devices differently.
A 7" tablet would make a much much better media control center than either an iPad (a tad big) or iPhone (a tad small).

Re:Not really...

[Richard_at_work]

The iPad can definitely be sluggish - regularly I have to wait more than 10 seconds for iBooks to display the book pages on opening, or go to swipe twice to turn a page because I thought it hadn't registered the first swipe only to have it turn two pages when the first swipe is eventually carried out.

Also, the iPads Safari has a tendency to reload pages when you switch between "tabs" - which can be fucking annoying when you are swapping between pages to cut and paste information or filling out a form... Even though I haven't added any new applications recently, it does seem to have gotten worse. Safaris UI can also lag a lot, with attempts to click on the bookmarks or "tabs" icons taking several seconds to register some times.

And thats without any other apps lingering in the background...

I love my iPad, I use it every day and its my primary browsing tool for on the couch or out and about, but it does have its foibles.

Re:Not really...

[rjames13]

I's that an iPad 1 or a 2?

Re:Not really...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Given that a fair few slightly bigger named vendors(like the oh-so-adaptive-to-the-times Kodak; though hardly them alone) are selling mere digital photo frames, often with screens of only 7-10 inches(not infrequently of really shoddy pixel density) for 30-60 dollars, a fully functional small computer for $100 has all sorts of potentially interesting uses.

Heck, the 7inch USB display/touchscreen units from MIMO, which contain only enough logic to serve as a displaylink video device, go for north of $100...

Re:Not really...

[Richard_at_work]

iPad 1

Re:Not really...

[symbolset]

I don't find the Kindle Fire sluggish at all. Maybe you got a bad one.

Re:Not really...

[GreatBunzinni]

I don't know what you mean by "iPad killer" but, to me, a large tablet is a huge turn-off, as is a pharaonic price tag for what' essentially a simple discount computer used as a secondary machine. To me, a 7-inch tablet selling for 100 euros beats a 10-inch selling for over 500 euros in every single meaningful comparison point. I believe I'm far from being the single one thinking like this, as this is essentially the same argument which pins the iPhone Vs android phones, and currently Android leads the smartphone market with a market share which goes well over 50%.

Re:Not really...

[itsdapead]

The iPad can definitely be sluggish

Since upgrading to iOS 5 (i.e. 2 major version upgrades from its original OS) I've noticed my iPad 1 becoming a bit sluggish - but not to the point of seriously spoiling the experience... and we're talking about an 18-month old tablet which is like, wow, 10 years old in dog years :-)

And thats without any other apps lingering in the background...

That's what you get when you listen to the Fandroids and allow 3rd Party Apps to multitask.

Re:Not really...

[dmmiller2k]

If an Android tablet actually comes out in the US for $100 or less, it won't matter whether the iPad is snappy or sluggish. What will matter is that for the cost of the cheapest iPad, one could buy five (5) of these. Heck, I'd buy one for each of my two teenaged boys (my wife already has an iPad2, a gift from her father) AND one for myself. Plus, two more to keep on the shelf as backup gifts for people.

Had I managed to get any HP Touchpads at $99 before they ran out I would have bought as many as I could get my hands on.

For me at least, at $100 these are practically disposable.

Re:Not really...

[Richard_at_work]

I'm still on 4.something, not made the leap to iOS5 yet due to the tab bar they've stuck in Safari - more screen real estate gone :(

Re:Not really...

[mbourgon]

Then you're not the target audience. I have a netbook, and an iPad, and use them for much different things.

Re:Not really...

[Yosho]

There already are several sub-$100 Android tablets out there. Here's one, for example: http://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-SYTAB7MX-7-Inch-Screen-MiniTablet/dp/B0065DVTHO/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1323185519&sr=1-8

Spoiler alert: the reason they're not sweeping the nation is because they're crappy. Quality does matter.

Re:Not really...

[rwven]

The reason the kindle fire is sluggish is the semi-botched android fork that amazon developed. Similarly specced honeycomb tablets run like a bat out of hell. the 6.2 patch from amazon also solved a plethora of the performance issues, so it IS getting better. Not there yet, but I've noticed a marked improvement.

In any case, the iOS line has always been sluggish. I owned several of them (Three iphones and an ipad) and always had freezes, overall sluggish behavior, and generally "meh" performance....especially given how incredibly simplistic their overall interface is.

Re:Not really...

[gtall]

Without a content system behind them like Apple's or Amazon's, no one will care.

Re:Not really...

[Doctor Memory]

When I first got my iPhone (3G), performance seemed pretty good. But as soon as I updated the OS to 4.0, performance tanked. It's still mostly usable, just not "handy": I no longer bother trying to check the weather, because it takes 15-20 seconds to display the information. Likewise, I no longer tap URLs in e-mail, because it takes 30-40 seconds to launch Safari (and another 10-15 seconds to load the page). I also gave up using it as an e-reader, because I can read the text on the screen in less time than it takes to turn the page. It's OK as a phone (AT&T put up a new site close to my house, so I get a great signal) and works as a simple MUA, but I feel like I've basically lost all my apps.

Re:Not really...

[jo_ham]

You might want to make that move - I know it's Apples and Oranges, but the move from iOS4 to iOS5 on the 3GS was excellent - performance is much better now.

Re:Not really...

[Belial6]

They also make better tablets for waitresses. A ton of restaurants in my area are now switching to tablets for their order taking, and 100% of the ones I have seen are using Android tablets. As you say, iPods are too small and iPads are too big.

Re:Not really...

[Belial6]

Yes, the sub $100 tablet certainly does have a lot of uses. As you say, picture frames are a good example. Being Android devices means that they can also update from your PC as you add more photos from your camera. You also have things like TV remotes. The physical button simple remotes are great, and I prefer them for day to day use, but there are a lot of people that buy Harmony remotes. An android tablet could compete well in that area in both function and cost. Home automation becomes a lot cheaper with a $100 video display controller compared to the hundreds or thousands that they have traditionally cost. Even as clocks, they start to become attractive. Atomic clocks are getting cheap now, but it wasn't long ago that people would spend over $100 on them. Add network set clock with weather, and a news headline, and you've got something. I was just looking at a cheap Android tablet last night. There was no way I would have bought it for general tablet use, but at $80, I would have bought it for a bedside alarm clock/home automation control panel/book reader. Unfortunately, it was priced at $150, and it wasn't worth $150. There are $80 tablets out there though.

Re:Not really...

[Belial6]

He is the target audience for a tablet. Just not for an iPad. iPad != tablet. He even starts his post with a description of what he is looking for with a tablet.

Re:Not really...

[Anonymous Coward]

It makes sense to wait for reviews, but given this tablet has a single-core 1GHz processor and the Fire has a dual-core 1GHz processor, it's hard to imagine this one keeping up.

Re:Not really...

[quacking duck]

For me at least, at $100 these are practically disposable.

And that attitude is what's wrong with consumer electronics these days. Whatever's cheap, people don't take care of, and don't care if it breaks down, or they replace it on a regular cycle. Inkjet printers, PCs, cell phones, dollar store electronics. I've seen people do stuff to their work phones and laptops that they wouldn't dream of doing had they paid for it themselves.

Gotta support the economy through constant churn, I guess.

Re:Not really...

[s73v3r]

No. If your point had any validity whatsoever, you'd remember that there were several cheap Chinese tablets, one sold at Walgreens last year, and they were universally despised. People like cheap, but they also like working. If this performs like that tablet last year, it won't take off.

And don't bring the HP Touchpad into this. That wasn't a $99 tablet. That was a $400 tablet that went on a fire sale. Completely different.

Re:Not really...

[Wild_dog!]

Yep and doctors and businesses have specialized things they use. The medical field and education field are two big areas where tablets are useful. I don't understand when people say they are glorified, expensive toys. They obviously are not hitched to reality.
I'm not saying computers are bad, I have been using them since my original Atari in 1981. But saying tablets are useless or toys or whatever just shows ones own limited experiences.
Tablets are here to stay. Everyone should have seen this from watching Star Trek the next generation.
What lies beyond the tablet I don't know, but tablets of all kinds will be with us for a while.
They are just too useful and consumers are finding them so enough to pay for them.

Re:Not really...

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? You can go to your local CVS right now and get a bundle of $99 shitty android tablets that are barely usable. I'm not sure it is much of a savings if they go into the garbage a month later due to how shitty they are.

Re:Not really...

[cos(0)]

that attitude is what's wrong with consumer electronics these days

That's progress.

When was the last time you patched your socks or shirts, or asked a local tailor to resize a shirt or a pair of pants? Oh, you mean you donate/discard clothes you no longer like and buy replacements? See, that's what's wrong with society these days. People don't take care if their clothes break down and they replace them on a regular cycle.

Re:Not really...

[quacking duck]

Last week actually. I have old clothes going back almost 20 years that I'll wear in the house or for yard and dirty work. I was never obsessed with fashion and style and trends, though I have a good enough selection to blend in with my social circles

Throwaway clothes is another sign of a wasteful culture, or one that has no appreciation of resources. At least clothes can be patched when they start falling apart.

Re:Not really...

[Belial6]

I would go so far as to say that those people don't really even understand what a tablet is. It IS a computer. "Tablet" is just a name that we give to computers with a predefined group of features. Pretty much "Tablet" means a portable, battery powered computer with a touch screen that can be used without a keyboard. If you include those features in a desktop, it would be a tablet too.

At last

[Anonymous Coward]

A market changing price that will force all the competition to adjust.

The game is afoot.

Good

[Anonymous Coward]

I just got a $70 smart phone with Android, capacitive touchscreen, GPS, 3D compass, accelerometer, the lot. It could use a little more RAM and of course faster would be better, but I really don't see any show stoppers. It's time for the hype to die down and let exponential performance increases bring the prices down to impulse buy territory.

Not a competitor

[somersault]

The Fire is only 7 inches. It's not really the same category as an iPad or any of the 10 inch Android tablets. I think it's stupid when people compare the two. There is an element of overlap for sure, but I don't see this eating significantly into the larger tablet market.

Experience: I've got a 5 inch tablet/phone, tried some cheap 7 inch chinese tablets and also have a 10 inch Xoom.

You can watch movies on 5 and 7 inch screens in a pinch, but I'd probably prefer just to read instead.

My Kindle (Keyboard version) is 7 inches and it's just big enough to be comfortable for reading in portrait orientation. When I've used my phone for reading, I've needed to switch to landscape to read comfortably.

I probably wouldn't even use my Xoom for watching movies, but I'd definitely choose it over a 7 inch tablet for web browsing and watching YouTube. I also like it for reading.

Re:Not a competitor

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep telling yourself that. Despite all the promises, even the iPads are still computers with many typical computer problems. Anyone I know who actually got one instead of just marveling about it has felt the enthusiasm over the managed experience fade. It's still a novelty market, and while there are many people who strongly desire a tablet, that is mostly a testament to the failure of the PC platform, not proof that tablets can do what people want. As the insight that tablets are not the solution to all domestic computer problems seeps in, the pressure on the price will increase. Nobody wants to spend that kind of money on something that ultimately does not deliver and ends up as a glorified universal remote.

Re:Not a competitor

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an iPhone (3G) that I've watched feature films on. It's not the best viewing experience (especially for 21:9 aspect films) but it does well. Watching widescreen tv content was pretty good too (I watched the first series of Fringe on it quite happily). I've recently bought an android tablet (Asus EeePad Transformer) and found that it's great at playing back films or tv content. It's still no substitution for a proper home cinema setup, but its a heck of a lot more portable and is great for using on public transport.

Re:Not a competitor

[sglewis100]

Keep telling yourself that. Despite all the promises, even the iPads are still computers with many typical computer problems. Anyone I know who actually got one instead of just marveling about it has felt the enthusiasm over the managed experience fade. It's still a novelty market, and while there are many people who strongly desire a tablet, that is mostly a testament to the failure of the PC platform, not proof that tablets can do what people want. As the insight that tablets are not the solution to all domestic computer problems seeps in, the pressure on the price will increase. Nobody wants to spend that kind of money on something that ultimately does not deliver and ends up as a glorified universal remote.

Funny, I sold my iPad to buy the iPad 2. You don't know ANYONE who still enjoys it? PS: It's an awfully large novelty market. Tens of millions and all. Funny, the one thing I don't use it for is as a glorified universal remote.

Re:Not a competitor

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, they aren't in the same category. The Fire will just barely fit in my pants pocket, whereas if I bought an iPad it wouldn't be able to leave the house unless I decided to buy a manpurse.

Re:Not a competitor

[robthebloke]

Finally, there is device security. There has yet to be a single piece of malware on an iPad in the wild.

Apart from carrier IQ obviously....

Re:Not a competitor

[Canazza]

Umm, I have an office suite on my Xoom. With WP, Spreadsheets, graphics.

It wasn't *free* mind, but it was £5, which is a hell of alot less than MS Office.

As for malware, it's been proven that malware can and has gotten past the ios app store filters. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/iOS-Apple-iPad-iPhone-malware,news-13122.html

All your post shows is that you're complacent.

Re:Not a competitor

[Wild_dog!]

Strange, my kids have one and I get to use it at night. I don't think my enthusiasm has faded because there is so much to do on it and I keep discovering more things to do.
Oddly it is more functional than lugging our netbook around.
The netbook has more flexibility, but is a hassle to use by comparison. Computers have their place. Tablets have their place.

BTW these are great educational tools for kids. I suppose if you are a programmer or developer of some sort it might not fill your needs, but then one wouldn't buy it for some of these production tasks. This is more of a consumer appliance.
Enthusiasm is continuing to grow.

Re:Not a competitor

[Lumpy]

You dont know many people then. I know hundreds in business that use their ipad daily. for notes, PDF's Cad drawing review, presentations, etc... IT's used far more than laptops in the 20+ businesses I support. And everyone I know that has them for recreational uses them constantly. In fact I know that many people look to buy a second one to keep in the bathroom.

The iPood.

Re:Not a competitor

[Lumpy]

I do use mine as a glorified universal remote. I control my crestron processors for the theater, whole house audio and home automation daily on mine. It's great to simply enter the crestron app and turn on the lights, open the garage door, turn on the sirius radio to Octane her in the den, etc...

it works fantastic for home automation.

Re:Not a competitor

[rjames13]

Apart from carrier IQ obviously....

The iPad is not a phone.

Re:Not a competitor

[somersault]

Telling myself what, exactly? Who said that tablets are meant to be a replacement for computers? I have a desktop, ultrabook, netbook, tablet, PS3, Xbox 360 and a phone. They have a hell of a lot of overlapping features, but all of them save the 360 get used regularly. My tablet is the only one that I'm guaranteed to use every day of the week.

I used to think that tablets would be crap too until I got my first capacitive screened phone with a 5" screen and realised that a touchscreen keyboard might be acceptable after all.

Re:Not a competitor

[robthebloke]

Hint: 3G .....

Re:Not a competitor

[afidel]

Uh, it runs the same OS, I really doubt they bothered to remove the hooks from the ipad build....

Re:Not a competitor

[afidel]

Detailed PDF's and CAD drawings are the WORST use of an ipad, it's sluggish as all get out. The ipad2 is slightly better but the performance was still bad enough that we altered our siteplan build process to create PNG's for ipad use. We're not talking mega-complex drawings here either, just stick outlines of shopping plazas with the parking lot layout shown.

Re:Not a competitor

[somersault]

until there are word processors, Exchange support, or other basic functionality, Android tablets will be considered at best a novelty.

WTF are you talking about? For one thing there is Google Docs. For another, my Dell Streak came with "QuikOffice" or something like that that does word docs. Not that I'd really want to use an office suite on a tablet when I have a laptop available.

Android has had Exchange support since version 1.5 - ie since 2009. You are either lazy and ignorant, or flat out trolling.

Finally, there is device security. There has yet to be a single piece of malware on an iPad in the wild. Shows you something doesn't it?

Sure.

Re:Not a competitor

[Belial6]

I am actually surprised that Apple hasn't targeted the iPad to developers. Programming is exactly the kind of task that works great remotely. If Apple set up a VPS farm and included that in their iOS developer subscription, there would be no need for an entire class of developer to have a regular desktop. Video out for a larger screen, and bluetooth keyboard/mouse and your ready to go.

Re:Not a competitor

[Wild_dog!]

The future may be that everyone just carries their own tech to work. Wireless syncs with the work servers automatically and links up with local printers, keyboards, mice and screens.
Almost nobody will require a dedicated box for the bulk of work everyone normally does. Small devices are getting really powerful.

Re:Not a competitor

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a xoom, and a good chinapad (capacitive screen etc..) I would choose the 7" chinapad everytime as its much more lightweight, the battery is excellent, it has a dual core cpu so is no slouch I find the 7" the perfect size the only let down is the case its not as nice as the xoom.

Re:Not a competitor

[somersault]

The Xoom has a dual core CPU and great battery life too. It is heavier than a 7", but I have a stand for it that I use at tables, and sensible postures for holding it to reduce strain when lounging around.

My Kindle was even causing shoulder strain when I held it wrong though. It only weighs something like 700g, so weight is less important than posture. I notice strained muscles from bad posture or repetitive movements (using a mouse all day every day for example) pretty quickly these days because I get plenty of exercise and am really aware of the condition my body is in.

As a person who just took a mips assembly class

[shawn(at)fsu]

I'm getting much more enjoyment out of this story than I should.

Re:As a person who just took a mips assembly class

[Anonymous Coward]

You might get more enjoyment out of developing on Android in Java tho.(Seeing as that's where the toolchain is)

Re:As a person who just took a mips assembly class

[Anonymous Coward]

I took MIPS assembly in college about 10 years ago. I've never used that knowledge, but it's neat seeing an article about something that I pretty much forgot about until now.

Re:As a person who just took a mips assembly class

[shawn(at)fsu]

As far as assembly goes I haven't had to use it in 10 years of professional work but some of the concepts learned help out. Some of my test questions were also questions asked in job interviews, also when you make a doubly linked list or an array in assembly you know that data structure inside and out.

...no, really.

[biscuits1978]

My co-worker's iPads are sluggish. The real reason why it is successful is because people are stupid enough to think all Apple products are top shelf. Not always the case... Even if the lower priced tablets are just below par, it still perks the attention of people not wanting to fork over their wallets for an iPad.

Re:...no, really.

[Wild_dog!]

My kids ipad2 is quite snappy. I wish I had one.... just playing around with it gives me lots of ideas of what to do with one. As far as I can tell the iPad 2 is really really well built and the 10+ hour battery life allows for a couple days use away from home without lugging that bulky wall wart.

I don't think I would want to pay a couple hundred bucks for something that is sluggish. In fact I don't want to pay $30 bucks for something that is sluggish.
Sluggishness is a pet peeve of mine though. Perhaps you are right and you or other people would rather pay very little for something which starts out sluggish.

Can't wait until they pass it down to me. It may be sluggish after a couple years by the time I get it.

Re:...no, really.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're ill informed. Most Android phones have both front and rear cameras and had them before the iPhone did.

Re:...no, really.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bald-faced.

Re:...no, really.

[rikkards]

My 6 month old Atix has it, it's also old enough that I got it "free" for a contract renewal

Re:...no, really.

[AdamJS]

The original iPad, if given the latest possible OS update, sure.
The iPad 2 is far, far, faaaaaaaaaaar 'snappier'/smoother and has a generally more refined user experience than any Android tablet on the market right now.

Which is odd, because some of the Android hardware out there is pretty close to par, if not better.

Blame Java?

Re:...no, really.

[edmicman]

The problem with Facetime is you're locked in to Apple products. I really with Google would push Google Talk with video chat or Google+ Messenger via mobile a lot more. The tech is there and it works, across platforms, but hardly anyone knows about it it seems.

Otherwise I've found that for pretty much any mainstream app there's parity between the iOS and Android phone apps. Tablets may be a different story but I'm sure that'll get closer, too.

Re:...no, really.

[lordbeejee]

You have to make an effort to not have one. Even my xperia mini has one and that's only a 200€ machine

Re:...no, really.

[PopeRatzo]

and the 10+ hour battery life allows for a couple days use away from home without lugging that bulky wall wart.

10 hours over a "couple days" is appropriate for a toy, but not an expensive tool.

Re:...no, really.

[MightyYar]

An expensive tool? How many people buy iPads and think of them as expensive tools? Furthermore, what other available tablet offers much better battery life?

How many days battery life do you get with your table saw?

Re:...no, really.

[MightyYar]

L I E

Re:...no, really.

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't wait until they pass it down to me. It may be sluggish after a couple years by the time I get it.

Unfortunately by this time your non-removable battery will probably be holding around 1/3 of its original charge level.

Re:...no, really.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is nothing sluggish about an IPad. Blatant Troll

Re:...no, really.

[MightyYar]

Oh no, you didn't.

Re:...no, really.

[barkndog]

and the 10+ hour battery life allows for a couple days use away from home without lugging that bulky wall wart.

10 hours over a "couple days" is appropriate for a toy, but not an expensive tool.

Do you ever get 10 hours out of a laptop? Are you saying expensive tools should get less battery life? Not a fanboy, I own a first gen iPad and bought my kids Android tablets (Toshiba Thrives). I personally like the Android tablets better - but I took my iPad away for the entire weekend, no charging (but no video or processor heavy apps either), and returned with 40% battery level. If you look at tablet comparison, iPads are always around the top on battery life.

Re:...no, really.

[walterbyrd]

Oh please, look at the Vizio 8 for $189, or the Lenovo Ideapad A1 for $199; among many others.

Re:...no, really.

[Wild_dog!]

Hmmmm...
What exactly is your point?
That the iPad should have less battery power?
Or that it isn't a useful tool?

For me it is a useful tool and does what I wanted it to do.
It is a fantastic tool for my kids education, helps with all kinds of things around the house, replaces 300 pounds of reference books, controls all of my media center better than a 600 buck dedicated remote specifically for my high end media center, plays movies on trips, plays music on trips. We are just beginning to find all of the uses for this handy gadget.

Hardly a toy, the ipad is a sophisticated device which has lots of functionality for the lifestyle of my family. I am really glad I don't have to recharge it every time I turn around. Sometimes you just don't have a place to plug it in. Great to use stellarium on a family hiking trip to the back woods for example so the kids can see the stars and id all of the constellations and stars which are viewable.

Perhaps your needs are less diverse than our families.
I don't think you really understand how useful one of these devices is.

Re:...no, really.

[AdamJS]

Can't watch it from here, but I can say with 100% certainty that every Android tablet I've played around with - and I should have kept a list, in hindsight - has gotten noticeably slower/clunkier as its storage nears full.

Re:...no, really.

[Desler]

Really? That's funny because going to T-Mobile and viewing their Android phones almost none of them have a front facing camera. And that's including newer models like the MyTouch Q, Samsung Gravity, Samsung Exhibit II, etc.

Re:...no, really.

[Desler]

Bullshit. Viewing the Android phones at the majority of the US telecoms sites the phones with FFCs are in a tiny minority of all Android phones they are selling. But one doesn't really expect truth from a fandroid.

Re:...no, really.

[ozmanjusri]

Furthermore, what other available tablet offers much better battery life?

The Asus Transformer.

Re:...no, really.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea one of the most pro-Apple people on slashdot was going to buy something else?? Get real.

Re:...no, really.

[MightyYar]

It's just an "Oh no, you didn't" song. :) I thought the Java crew was gonna come knocking on your door.

I don't have enough experience with tablets to add anything meaningful to this discussion...

Re:...no, really.

[Anonymous Coward]

So your daughter and her husband spend a lot of time apart and need some facetime to get together? That's a shame. What jobs do they do?

Re:...no, really.

[certain death]

I have a Motorola Triumph from Virgin Mobile - it has been around quite some time and has front and rear facing cameras. It is a cheap, but reasonably responsive phone. You are wrong, face it.

Re:...no, really.

[FatAlb3rt]

At the same pricepoint, they could have gotten 4G phones w/ front and rear facing cameras.

Re:...no, really.

[Hotweed Music]

I feel like whenever that tablet is mentioned in reply to iPad-praising posts, it goes right over the Apple aficionados' heads.

Re:...no, really.

[hedwards]

My laptop only gets 5 hours, but I do know that there are Intel based ones that get approximately 10. Given that Apple is using an ARM chip, it seems kind of embarrassing that they're only able to get 10 hours out of it.

Re:...no, really.

[hitmark]

Until Android made it big but had no real support for real time video, just about every phone with a UMTS radio had a front facing camera. This because one of the big selling points from the carriers point of view was mobile video calls...

Re:...no, really.

[hitmark]

They dropped of the radar for Android phones because Android did not support UMTS video calling, or something like that.

Re:...no, really.

[biscuits1978]

iOS has the apps, not just iPad. I'll give them that much.

Apps come as an advantage because people tend to develop for a platform that everyone is buying (for reason, see my post). Now that Android tablets are starting to become relevant, and with a new OS that is much more available than Honeycomb, I can see developers having less barriers to creating tablet-friendly applications for Android tablets.

And if Facetime/front-facing cameras are the ONE reason why you went with iPhones, then YOU need to get your ass out of the sand yourself. Facetime is not the only application that allows video chatting on a mobile platform. Front-facing cameras? Let's see:

• * Samsung Exhibit 4G - $30 (after mail-in rebate, $80 before mail-in)
• * myTouch 4G - $50 (after mail-in rebate, $100 before)
• * G2x - $99 (after mail-in rebate)
• * Samsung Infuse 4G - $50
• * LG Thrill 4G - $99

That's just with AT&T and T-Mobile.

Re:...no, really.

[ooshna]

That's because to them its like comparing apples to oranges. The Transformer isn't really a tablet sure it has the rounded corners, a flat screen, and thin boarders but if Apple can't get the courts to ban its sale then it can't be a tablet.

Re:...no, really.

[BlackCreek]

My laptop only gets 5 hours, but I do know that there are Intel based ones that get approximately 10. Given that Apple is using an ARM chip, it seems kind of embarrassing that they're only able to get 10 hours out of it.

Isn't it the case that tablets carry smaller batteries so as to reduce weight? Besides battery life is not everything. People have the choice between dump phones that last a month, and smart phones that last 2 days. Most pick the smart phone.

Re:...no, really.

[Wild_dog!]

10 hours is useful. How is 10 hours not useful?
Sure 24 hours of constant on would be better, but you can't seriously say 10 hours is not enough to make a useful tool.
It is useful if it does what you need while you have it on and it stays on for as long as you need it to be on.
You are just talking smack my friend.

Stellarium helps one identify the stars. It is nice to be able to go out an about and have a tool which has so much information on it for us to learn about our universe on.
Simply can't do that in a city. It is harder to even see a star with the city lights.
iPad is a great tool and once again you just don't know what you are talking about.
Insisting that you can determine whether it is toy or a tool for my family just shows you have some sort of logical mind block that you just can't seem to overcome.
Ignorance is even more ignorant if one continues to press a flawed argument.

Re:...no, really.

[MightyYar]

You mean when it is docked into the keyboard/docking station? Because standalone the battery life is similar to the iPad. If you are willing to add bulk, there are iPad skins with batteries in them that cost about $60 and get battery life similar to a docked Transformer.

Re:...no, really.

[NeoMorphy]

Bullshit. Viewing the Android phones at the majority of the US telecoms sites the phones with FFCs are in a tiny minority of all Android phones they are selling. But one doesn't really expect truth from a fandroid.

Why does it matter if only some of the Android phones have an FFC? If someone wanted an Android phone with an FFC so that they can do video chats, they can do so. How many models of iphone are there with an FFC, two? If the number of models with an FFC was important, then I guess Droid wins! But, it's not important. Some people don't care if there is an FFC, there is a wide variety of needs and the wide variety of Android phones are trying to hit the different markets, so they don't all have to have an FFC.

If FFC is such a big deal, didn't Droid have it before the iphone? At that time I think iphone had zero models with an FFC.

Re:...no, really.

[bickle]

The real reason why it is successful is because people are stupid enough to think all Apple products are top shelf.

It's kind of funny that there are people that still cling to this anti-Apple argument. Any person who objectively evaluates various tablets after actually using them admits that the Ipad is far and away the better, more polished product. I've been waiting for a non-Apple tablet for a long time, but each new product is just a new pretender.

For something to dethrone the Ipad, it will need to be as good as (if not better) AND come in at a lower price. That's a tall order.

Re:...no, really.

[jo_ham]

Why? I think it's a very nice tablet that has similar features to the iPad, and crucially for the market, is slightly cheaper (although only by $100 or so).

If you want a tablet and don't want an iPad for any reason, then it would be my major suggestion.

Re:...no, really.

[jo_ham]

Obvious troll is obvious, but "10 hours over a couple of days" describes laptops too, if you don't charge them up. What makes that more appropriate to hold the coveted "expensive tool" moniker?

(Although of the tools I use, an iPad is a drop in the bucket, but that's neither here nor there [I do not own an iPad]).

Re:...no, really.

[Amouth]

Furthermore, what other available tablet offers much better battery life?

Not so much tablet or better - but i get 10 hours of usable battery life from my laptop - and i can assure you that i'm far more productive with it then i could ever be with a tablet.

Re:...no, really.

[Belial6]

Well, they do like to say that "There is not tablet market, there is an iPad market." Perhaps they are just confused about the fact that the rest of us are actually talking about tablets, and are not talking about a subset of Apple products.

Re:...no, really.

[MightyYar]

Most people aren't trying to be productive with their tablets.

Re:...no, really.

[bill_mcgonigle]

It sounded more like straight-up ignorance to me.

Re:...no, really.

[Anonymous Coward]

iphone 4 $99.00

So Epic fail on Android.

His point was phone under $99.00 and you proved it.

Re:...no, really.

[toastar]

My G2X has a ffc...

Re:...no, really.

[s73v3r]

What? And are you gonna try and give the tablet or laptop that has better battery life?

Re:...no, really.

[s73v3r]

Or it could be that the vast, vast, vast majority of tablets sold are iPads. It really is an iPad market, with a few other competitors trying to grab a slice.

Re:...no, really.

[s73v3r]

It's $100 cheaper, but it's not going to have better battery life unless you drop another $150 on the keyboard dock.

Re:...no, really.

[s73v3r]

but I do know that there are Intel based ones that get approximately 10

Care to list some of them?

Re:...no, really.

[s73v3r]

No, the opposite. 10 hours over a "couple days" is not enough to make it a useful tool.

No, I think that's just you trying to find something to bitch about the iPad so you can look cool on the internet.

Re:...no, really.

[jo_ham]

Certainly, and my personal preference would be an iPad, even at $100 more, but my point was just because I would choose an iPad doesn't mean I don't think the Transformer is a viable product or that I "conveniently forget" about it or that it "goes over my head".

Re:...no, really.

[Amouth]

i will fully agree with that - but for me, if i can't be productive with it, i don't need it.

Re:...no, really.

[b0bby]

I never really understand this attitude of "if you're going outside the city, then unless you leave behind every modern device you're not really hiking/camping/whatever properly, and therefore should just stay home". What, exactly, is wrong about hiking and using a cool device to show you the name of constellations and stars? Last overnight hike I did with my kids, we all bundled into one tent & watched a movie on one of their ipods. They hiked with their gear on their backs, they helped set up camp, we sat around the campfire & made s'mores, it was a good time. I honestly don't think that using an ipod means that really, they would have been better off at home. I used white gas to cook prepared foods, do you also think that if I didn't trap & cook a rabbit over an open fire that I'd have been better off at home? Where does the line get drawn?

Re:...no, really.

[hedwards]

The ones I was thinking of are Lenovos. I'll do you one better, this one gets up to 23 hours on a charge. If my laptop is any indication their estimate is probably pretty accurate.

http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/x-series/x220/

Re:...no, really.

[hedwards]

Probably, but it's still no excuse, especially considering that you can't change the battery yourself. Now, if you could change the battery yourself and bring a spare it would probably be a reasonable battery life. I doubt most people need more than 10 hours at a stretch, but those that do probably would want a spare battery.

Re:...no, really.

[Anonymous Coward]

If the Transformer Prime (or any other Tegra 3 tablet) comes with an unlocked bootloader, we'll be seeing Cyanogenmod 9 (ICS) almost immediately, followed by GNU/Linux once the 3.2 kernel makes it into distributions. That is a world-crushing advantage for anyone selling their device as the one computer you need - the ability to boot into a mature desktop OS.

Re:...no, really.

[roc97007]

> An expensive tool? How many people buy iPads and think of them as expensive tools?

I'd say, virtually none. They're more likely to think of them as "my precious".

Re:...no, really.

[amRadioHed]

Correlation does not imply causation. Is it possible that older devices with storage that is nearly full also have more apps installed and possibly running in the background using memory and slowing things down? I can't think of any reason near full storage would slow the phone down by itself.

Re:...no, really.

[Belial6]

So, your one of the confused. Check.

Re:...no, really.

[ooshna]

Thank you. Finally a fanboy admitting that Apple holds a monopoly on the tablet market.

Re:...no, really.

[s73v3r]

Confused about what? That the iPad is the dominant player in the market?

Re:...no, really.

[s73v3r]

Thank you. Finally a fanboy admitting that Apple holds a monopoly on the tablet market.

Uhhh, no. They merely have a dominant position. Wake me when they try to leverage that dominant position to force OEMs to perform anti-competitive acts.

Re:...no, really.

[ooshna]

Like buying over half of the capacitive glass touch panels created in 2010 forcing other companies to use lesser quality displays?

Re:...no, really.

[Belial6]

That other people are talking about the tablet market.

Re:...no, really.

[Anonymous Coward]

On the plus side, it looks better than an iPad.

Re:...no, really.

[badkarmadayaccount]

Why is it so important to reduce weight - what's the issue with placing a handle?

Is "sub-$100" supposed to be a selling point?

[rodrigoandrade]

Considering we all know that inexpensive Android tablets suck bad, I just can't fathom the pile of poop this sub-$100 tablet will be.

Re:Is "sub-$100" supposed to be a selling point?

[Albanach]

Considering we all know that inexpensive Android tablets suck bad, I just can't fathom the pile of poop this sub-$100 tablet will be.

Has there previously been a sub $100 android device running an OS actually designed for tablets, with a 1GHz processor and capacitive screen?

If not, you're comparing apples and oranges.

Re:Is "sub-$100" supposed to be a selling point?

[Anonymous Coward]

If not, you're comparing apples and oranges.

Which is a perfectly fair comparison to make. I like apples. I don't care for oranges. What's your problem?

Similarly, you might not compare a Bugatti to a G5 or a luxury yacht. But, I would and I'd choose the plane.

So far, EVERY EFFING tablet that has come down the pike has been held up against the iPad/iPhone by the manufacturers, media and consumers alike. So far, every one of those tablets has been a boatload of suck in comparison to an iPad. It's just that simple.

Re:Is "sub-$100" supposed to be a selling point?

[Lumpy]

No there hasnt. All of them have been really old versions of Android which makes them crap. Hopefully this china company did not phone it in like the rest of them have and has created at least a useful tablet that does not suck.

That is the problem with sub $200.00 tablets. the suck level get's up there because of the hardware being cheaped out on.

Re:Is "sub-$100" supposed to be a selling point?

[afidel]

No, I don't know that inexpensive Android tablets "suck bad". My kids are very much enjoying their $191 10" Android tablet.

MIPS based...that's going to be a slight problem..

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's MIPS based, you should take care to note that at least part of the apps out there in the store are NDK apps and will need recompilation to run.

I think there is some misremembering of history

[antifoidulus]

Price was not the only reason Apple lost out to the PC, not by a long shot. Gates seemed to be the only smart enough to figure out the whole familiarity factor to computing, people who use X computer at work will be much more likely to buy X computer for use at home as well. Knowing "how to use" such a computer puts the buyer at ease, and of course they can always take stuff from work home. Furthermore, there was a lot of stagnation in Mac OS after Jobs' ouster, pre-Mac OS sucked even worse than Windows, as hard as that is to believe.

If price was the only thing consumers considered, we would be seeing Linux everywhere and Apple wouldn't be gaining market share every year....

Re:I think there is some misremembering of history

[sgt scrub]

My memory is of people wanting me to build 10 PCs for the cost of buying 3 macs. True I was basically a cheap hardware whore; but the fact remains, it was significantly cheaper to build then buy. Add to that the way free copies of DOS popped up out of nowhere. It was if Microsoft was making the OS as available as possible so people would buy software made for it instead of their competitors. wink wink nudge nudge.

Re:I think there is some misremembering of history

[Anonymous Coward]

As if there was any difference between any of OS X, Windows 7/8, Gnome 3, KDE, etc, that is relevant, or even noticed, by the end user.

In 1980, your argument would have made sense. But nowadays people that drive cars, operate heavy machinery, repair electronics, organize complex projects, etc, just seem to go into full drooling-retard mode when they so much as smell something related to computers. "Ugga! Click! Button! Color! Wooga! App! Window! Icon! Brezaaaablarglx!"
They can't tell the difference! In fact they couldn't tell their hands from their feet at that point!

If you don't believe me, take a laptop with any running OS, stand next to somebody who is not a computer pro and doesn't know you are, and look like you want to ask him a question about a problem with your computer. Don't actually ask. Just look like you will in a few seconds. Now watch for how he changes when he notices you and realizes your situation. Just look at his eyes! You will feel sorry you doubted me. ;)

I could say that it's like a sudden impact of Down syndrome. But that would be insulting to this group of people who can't help their situation. And I mean the Down syndrome people!

Re:I think there is some misremembering of history

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple lost to the "PC" primarily because at that time the "PC" was the "IBM PC" ... and those 3 letters were the gateway to corporate and enterprise legitimacy - the PC was not seen as a "network" device but a "3270" terminal connected to the megabuck mainframe. Apple at that time was the Apple II.

By the time the Macintosh entered the market, the "PC" shakeup (and shake out) was starting to happen. Microsoft saw windows, and IBM saw OS/2. And that, pretty much was that.

The tablet marketplace has been defined as a "consumer" space, and one that is inherently networked. Apple's main competitor is likely to be Amazon, not HP or some other hardware vendor. The amazing part of the scene here is how such a large consumer force as SONY can not even be on the horizon.

Re:I think there is some misremembering of history

[Anonymous Coward]

PCs were made for people to work with Macs for people who wanted smug sense of self satisfaction.

Re:I think there is some misremembering of history

[Anonymous Coward]

Gates seemed to be the only smart enough to figure out the whole familiarity factor to computing, people who use X computer at work will be much more likely to buy X computer for use at home as well.

Gates was the only one smart enough?! Apple was famous for getting their computers into schools, where students would become familiar with them. Everybody knew this strategy, just not everybody was able to pull it off.

Re:I think there is some misremembering of history

[antifoidulus]

The aw there was assuming that newly graduated students had any say whatsoever in which computers got used at work, they didn't.

Re:I think there is some misremembering of history

[aeropreneur]

Nah, it was price. Pricing the 128K Mac for $2,500 was one of the dumbest decisions ever made in the computer industry. I bought one soon after at UT for $1,111. Apple's profit margin was insane. It's great to see them consciously NOT making that mistake again. It's true the familiarity factor came into play later, it helped solidify the PC's lead. But in early 1984, very few people used computers at work, percentage-wise. It wasn't until the late 1980s that nearly everyone got one on their desk, and till the mid-1990s that most people had one at home.

Re:I think there is some misremembering of history

[AmiMoJo]

Back when I used to for in IT we found that a lot of Apple and Sony owners tended to go right off those brands when the first repair bill came in. They could put up with the high purchase cost and the expensive non-standard peripherals, but when some vital and non-generic part failed the repair bill was often enough to buy a cheaper replacement machine.

As an example Sony keyboards were around £80 for black and £160 for white. Replacement LCD panels for the 24" desktop Macs were about £400. Some people resorted to buying used machines on eBay sold as non-working and asking us to transplant the part they needed into theirs. When asked about good quality and reasonably priced laptops we used to say Acer, who were charging about £16 for a keyboard including delivery.

What I can't understand is why people who have been bitten by those rip-off prices then go and buy another one. My friend had an iPod, one of classic line before the Touch came out. His parents bought him some really nice speakers with a built in dock for it, but when he got an iPhone it wouldn't work with them. Same connector, but no device detected. Turns out Apple deliberately made sure older peripherals would not be compatible. It happened again when he bought some unofficial USB cables which worked for a few months and then after a software update mysteriously stopped. Despite that he bought a 3GS and probably has a 4 by now.

I stopped buying Sony shit the first time I got burned. Why wouldn't you?

Mostly (Totally.) ARMless

[oPless]

Interesting, but it's MIPS, not ARM

There goes a load of games, and whatnot ... but on the plus side they're paying license fees to MIPS, which prior to this they weren't, which is nice.

Re:Mostly (Totally.) ARMless

[sgt scrub]

Phone games are not exactly built to run on a specific hardware arch like in the PC world. Most are just Java/Flash applets.

Re:Mostly (Totally.) ARMless

[Tapewolf]

Phone games are not exactly built to run on a specific hardware arch like in the PC world. Most are just Java/Flash applets.

Yes and no. I've heard a fair number of them use the NDK, which means the .so loaded by the Java part will be for ARM, maybe x86 as well if they used the current NDK. MIPS is not part of the official toolchain, though there is a 3rd-party NDK for it. As of 2.3 it is possible to make a game entirely natively.

Flash certainly isn't going to be built for MIPS.

Re:Mostly (Totally.) ARMless

[Anonymous Coward]

On iPhone they are compiled to native executables; so yes they are. On Android, most games which push hardware hard via OpenGL do so via native executables via the NDK; so yes they are. To support non-ARM platforms, the developers must bundle native binaries for EACH target platform to be supported. So if MIPS isn't one the developer targeted, the game is simply not playable and/or available.

Re:Mostly (Totally.) ARMless

[robthebloke]

Phone games are not exactly built to run on a specific hardware

Absolutely correct. No developer in their right mind would use any of the NEON vector instructions available on ARM CPUs. I mean come on, who could possibly want to process 4 floats in the time it takes to process 1? Especially when that code works on all of the ARM android phones too. I mean, what is the point in bothering to write scalable efficient code for a platform with a finite battery life? I can see absolutely no point to it at all. As a game developer myself, I can say with some authority that the entire iGaming industry has adopted the approach of running an SQL server on your iDevice, and then we simply fire an SQL query for every pixel when we come to rendering. It sure as hell beats using that crappy parallel computing language GLSL to render pixels....

Re:Mostly (Totally.) ARMless

[pruss]

Somewhere around 1/4 or 1/3 of the apps on my Archos tablet use a native library. I know because I occasionally monitor how much stuff is in the /data/data/*/lib directory, and for the apps with particularly fat libraries, I offload /data/data/*/lib to an SD card, and symlink to it.

Here are two examples: The open source APV PDF viewer that I am on the dev team for is just a relatively small java wrapper around a native library that encapsulates muPDF code, with no changes in the core muPDF code, and uses other standard libraries like libfreetype and libjpeg. I expect a fair amount of open source Android ports work like this. I also have on my device one app which is a port of an iPhone app, and the developer has kept all of the OpenGL C code unchanged and wrapped it in a native library.

Sure, it wouldn't be hard for a developer to recompile the ARM code, but then (a) the developer will need to install another toolchain and will ask: is it worth it for a small segment of the market? and (b) will need to either swell up the binaries for everyone by including a MIPS library or will have to go to the trouble of uploading two versions with every release, which is a nuisance, especially if it's a free app.

Re:Mostly (Totally.) ARMless

[Anonymous Coward]

The Android NDK allows you to build multiple binaries into your package to support multi-arch.

Re:Mostly (Totally.) ARMless

[sgt scrub]

How ironic. Snarking someone for mentioning that the majority of phone games are written to the API then mentioning a language that helps developers avoid writing to the metal. Cudos for the snarks btw. They were really good up to the point of the GLSL snafu.

Re:Mostly (Totally.) ARMless

[sgt scrub]

How does using OpenGL, so you don't have to tweak in assembly so things are portable to anything running the library, needing to be rewritten for a different arch? I just don't get these responses. The whole point of the vast majority of Google's code is so it is recompiled to bytecode to the device running your applications. If your spending a lot of time writing code to run fast on an arch somebody, me apparently, is missing something. There is even a JVM to AVM2 bytecode interpreter. http://code.google.com/p/j2avm/

Re:Mostly (Totally.) ARMless

[Anonymous Coward]

Most PDF readers on Android use libpoppler or the mupdf libs - those are C libraries, and the versions in the Market are all aimed at ARM chips.

Re:Mostly (Totally.) ARMless

[Anonymous Coward]

My samsung android phone still has an arm11 you insensitive clod. no neon:(

Isn't that like comparing laptops with netbooks?

[Anonymous Coward]

If a smaller, cheaper product is better, then why aren't we all doing everything on netbooks? Sure they look similar, but that's about it.

come on...

[Anonymous Coward]

do you really think the majority of apple customers care about price? they'll fork out $2k+ for a 17" mbp w/ a 5400rpm hdd... i highly doubt a cheap chinese co's tablet is going to put a dent in their thinking.

Having both the Fire and iPad2

[Shivetya]

I purchased the Fire on the idea it might make a good present for parents to use while camping (free WIFI is almost always found in the campgrounds they visit) for simple email and browsing. It also want to see how it performed versus the iPad for the same.

The experience is certainly not up to the standard set by Apple but I find it very acceptable when one factors in the price point. The price point is important because for me a loss of a $200 device is far easier to take than losing the $500+ iPad. The Fire has already done the bounce test on the carpet, something I hope the iPad never tries.

Web browsing, hands down better on the iPad. The Fire just doesn't have the oomph. So will knock offs have the same problem? It might be related to Amazon's browser but I am not wholly sure on that. Mail reading is fine, it could be better, but it works and I tend to leave the Fire on the counter and one hand hold it while eating so I can check up on mail. Something that the iPad form factor is not good at.

I hope the seven inch size takes off, it really is much more portable without losing too much screen to make it just worth sticking with a phone. There are rumors Apple may head this way too which should push prices down.

I find I can treat a seven inch tablet more like a tablet than the 11 inch iPad, with the iPad I just felt I needed an external keyboard, possibly because after use it certainly loses the feel of portability. You don't one hand an iPad.

Re:Having both the Fire and iPad2

[Dog-Cow]

My iPad has hit pavement from 2-3 feet up without loss of functionality. Granted, the corner that hit is a bit roughed up, but luckily the cover I keep it in hides that and protects it from moisture (the seal between the screen and case is broken).

Re:Having both the Fire and iPad2

[eric_brissette]

I tried a friend's Kindle Fire, and was a bit disappointed with the performance.. I don't know if it was just me, but the interface felt laggy and failed to register presses about 1/4 of the time. Amazon's launcher is garbage, and the rest of the hacks to the OS likely are too. I think performance will improve quite bit once someone gets an AOSP build of Android good and stable for it.

Re:Having both the Fire and iPad2

[AmiMoJo]

Web browsing, hands down better on the iPad. The Fire just doesn't have the oomph.

While I agree that the Kindle Fire isn't as powerful as the iPad you need to take two additional factors into account, as well as the price. Firstly Android has Flash support, and setting it to "click to play" mode will improve performance dramatically. Also consider that the stock Android browser reformats sites for easier reading on a small screen, and these days 1024 pixels is about the bare minimum for web browsing.

My experience of cheap Android tablets is that if you want to browse the web and can put up with somewhat choppy scrolling then they are fine. Getting one with a 1280 pixel wide screen is well worth it. Personally I am probably going to pony up for the ASUS Transformer though, mainly because I am impatient.

I'm quite enjoying my Archos G9

[Anonymous Coward]

Although I paid £200 (which, when you account for VAT is a better price), and you can get it for about $280 or so if you look around.

http://store.archos.com/archos-p-5016.html

8 inch 4:3 tablet running honeycomb. Plays pretty much any video that I've tried so far. Has Android market, gps, front camera (no back camera) and a happy kickstand. Same chipset (so to speak) as the Kindle Fire, but it's proper Android and nice extra goodies.

Compared to an Ipad you can tell it is a budget tablet, but at half the price (for the UK) I thought it was worth it.

Re:I'm quite enjoying my Archos G9

[RMH101]

My dad just surprised my by dropping by yesterday and saying he'd just ordered one of these. My immediate reaction was "ah, no, what pile of inventory-to-clear has he picked up?" but the specs actually look pretty decent. I guess this is the point where we have functional tablets at a significantly cheaper price.

Price is China only

[Zoxed]

USD 99 is price in China: US version estimated at +USD 50 = USD 149

No you didn't...

[Junta]

You made a $70 dollar downpayment and will be paying off the phone over the next two years.

Re:No you didn't...

[sglewis100]

You made a $70 dollar downpayment and will be paying off the phone over the next two years.

Yeah. Had he only bought an unlocked phone instead, he wouldn't have a bill every month over the next two years by way of contract. He'd just spend a lot more up front and have a bill every month. The carriers are going to get your $50 to $120 a month. It's the only way they will let you on their network.

Re:No you didn't...

[Anonymous Coward]

The phone didn't come with a contract and is not locked to any SIM or network. I'm using it with my existing pay-as-you-go SIM. Data is currently Wifi only, but I can pay about $13 per month and get 3G data too if I want to.

Re:No you didn't...

[Inda]

In the UK, you can get Android phones on pay-as-you-go for fifty quid. Some even come with ten quid credit.

$70 sounds about right.

Re:No you didn't...

[ozmanjusri]

You made a $70 dollar downpayment and will be paying off the phone over the next two years.

Maybe not.
http://www.mobileciti.com.au/huawei-u8180-black

I paid $77 for mine, and I've heard there are discount sales where you can get them cheaper.

Re:No you didn't...

[TheRaven64]

The carriers are going to get your $50 to $120 a month

Are they? I bought my phone for about £50 and I'm on a pre-pay plan where I typically pay £2-3 each month. For £5/month I can get a light-use data package (enough for email and IM).

Re:No you didn't...

[MightyYar]

In the US you can get T-Mobile "Value" plans that have exactly the same options as the regular plans, but they cost $20 less per month. On a 2 year contract it will only save you like $120*, but then after that you are saving a full $20/month for each month that you keep your existing phone.

* Most of the smart phones can be financed at around $15/month IIRC.

Re:No you didn't...

[sglewis100]

The carriers are going to get your $50 to $120 a month

Are they? I bought my phone for about £50 and I'm on a pre-pay plan where I typically pay £2-3 each month. For £5/month I can get a light-use data package (enough for email and IM).

I'm not sure you're a typical use case. Besides, I'm a heavy data user, and a heavy voice user.

Re:No you didn't...

[bjwest]

Go into Walmart and look at some of the pay as you go Android phones and comment again. I'd say edit your comment, but, alas, Slasdot has yet to fix that bug.

Re:No you didn't...

[bluefoxlucid]

Well, T-Mobile charged me $90/mo for "Classic" on contract and $70/mo for "Value" without contract--same plan. The 2 year contract adds $480 to your phone service costs; I got a $320 phone for $50 plus $20 x 24 = $480, total $530 I paid for it. But I broke my contract for $50 eventually, dropped the required $30/mo Android service and got the $10/mo 2GB limited data service instead, saved myself $40 overall.

At least the phone insurance was viable. Asurion charged $7/mo and the copay for the phone was $160. For a Motorola V3 RAZR it was last $5/mo (might be $7 now) and the copay was $50; a brand new Motorola V3 Razr, at the time, cost $50--or free with 2 year contract that cost $480 over 2 years. Yes, that means you can pay $480 for a $50 phone AND pay $5/mo to have an insurance coverage for loss or damage with a $50 copay to get the $50 phone.

Re:No you didn't...

[bluefoxlucid]

2 years = 24 months. 24 x $20 = 240 x $2 = $480.

Re:No you didn't...

[MightyYar]

Exactly, but the smart phones cost about $15 to finance for 2 years:

24 x $15 = $360

$480 - 360 = $120

Re:No you didn't...

[Junta]

The issue being that with the plans with discounted phones, the subsidy is baked into the plan. To say a cell phone associated with a such a plan is indicitave if the realistic retail price of a tablet *not* tied to a carrier would be silly.

A number of people have indicated this may be an off-contract price, but pointed to devices that have such incredibly crippled specs that couldn't possibly drive a pixel count appropriate for a larger screen.

Re:No you didn't...

[jo_ham]

I have an unlocked 3GS running on O2 with unlimited data for £20/month (rolling 1 month long contract).

Upgrading for me is just not financially sensible - much cheaper to just buy an unlocked, unsubsidised phone and just swap sim cards, then still no long term contract. It is possible to get decent deals, but you have to ask.

Re:No you didn't...

[bill_mcgonigle]

I'm not sure you're a typical use case. Besides, I'm a heavy data user, and a heavy voice user.

Which is itself not a typical use case. My daughter has a cell phone plan which is fifty cents a month plus usage. I bought her a refurbished LG nv2 for $60. This is fine for probably fifty million American users who rarely use their cell phones but have them for the occasional call plus emergency.

Anybody who can get away with less than half a gig of data a month shouldn't be paying a bill more than $55 unless they want to pay off an expensive smartphone over time with a loan from their phone company.

Re:No you didn't...

[s73v3r]

For £5/month I can get a light-use data package (enough for email and IM).

Good for you. I don't want "light use data". I paid for a phone that can be constantly connected, so I want to use that.

Re:No you didn't...

[s73v3r]

They're financed at $20-25/month, not $15.

Re:No you didn't...

[MightyYar]

My mistake - I don't finance them, and I thought the guy had told me $15 the last time I was in there. I'm sure it depends on how much you put down?

Re:No you didn't...

[froggymana]

You made a $70 dollar downpayment and will be paying off the phone over the next two years.

Yeah. Had he only bought an unlocked phone instead, he wouldn't have a bill every month over the next two years by way of contract. He'd just spend a lot more up front and have a bill every month. The carriers are going to get your $50 to $120 a month. It's the only way they will let you on their network.

With most carriers in the US it doesn't matter if you use an unlocked phone, or locked phone on their network it still will cost you the same amount per month.

Re:No you didn't...

[froggymana]

I'd say edit your comment, but, alas, Slasdot has yet to fix that bug.

That isn't a bug, it's a feature. They believe that your posts shouldn't change just like you can't change what you say in a real conversation. You can only make amendments to your post.

Re:No you didn't...

[s73v3r]

I would imagine it does depend on that, and I guess the value of the phone itself. And how long you want to finance it for.

Got root?

[sgt scrub]

This reminded me of a post regarding thoughts on Yellow Dog Linux being ported to velocity's stuff. It made me wonder if a more X11 friendly version of Linux could be ported to another inexpensive tablet running MIPS. Maybe more tablets like these will help make that happen. I'm getting to like the idea of running a phone inside Xnest.

Re:Got root?

[Anonymous Coward]

No one cares about MIPS though

Re:Got root?

[Microlith]

It made me wonder if a more X11 friendly version of Linux could be ported

Trivially. The question is whether or not the hardware vendor will release the kernel sources (Chinese vendors have a bad habit of not doing so) and whether they'll release Xorg compatible versions of the GPU drivers.

Android's made it a real pain in the ass for non-Android Linux platforms to get a handle on modern mobile hardware.

Price vs Quality

[Anonymous Coward]

(Posting AC because I'm at work)

It's not just a price issue - it's a price versus (perceived) quality. With the Mac vs PC issue, the (perceived) quality did not support the price. That, however, has changed (radically) which has resulted in Mac sales surging compared to PCs over the last few years. For the iPad, bluntly, nothing comes close to it's price versus (perceived) quality. People who are making a purchase choice based solely on price are doing so knowing they are getting a sub-par product but "it's all they can afford" (similar to people who buy truly crappy PC laptops simply because they're cheap). When it comes to competing with the iPad, a $100 tablet isn't competition. Heck, Amazon's Fire isn't competition. Until their quality approaches an iPad (and they are both woefully sub-par compared to an iPad), their price doesn't matter.

Now, things like the Motorola Xoom 2 or the Samsung Galaxy Tab are in a similar range so price becomes a consideration and, in most cases, the iPad still wins out because of a higher (perceived) quality. Some people still do choose to buy a competing tablet (obviously) but those purchases are usually done for specific reasons (often related to "I don't like Apple").

Long ramble short - a $100 tablet isn't competition for an iPad. That's like saying a Hyundai Accent hatchback is competition for a BMW 5 series. Yes, they're both cars but they aren't vaguely going for the same market and they aren't vaguely of the same build quality.

Re:Price vs Quality

[symbolset]

If you're on a budget and have a family, "six of this one" or "one of the other" can be a pretty compelling argument. Not having to share is kind of nice too.

The problem with cheap tablets....

[Xenious]

The problem with cheap tablets is that they are cheap tablets. The same issues carry over from cheap notebooks. When lowering the entry price point you also lower the quality of the components and build of the item. I get frustrated by these "races to the bottom."

Re:The problem with cheap tablets....

[CastrTroy]

I bought a $400 laptop last boxing day, which is pretty much bottom of the line for notebooks. There are a few cheaper models, but most of those are just last year's left over stock (I actually just saw the same laptop I bought last year for $300). It's actually built pretty well. There's no reason that a quality tablet should have to cost $500. Maybe sub $100 is a little low, but we should easily be seeing the price get to $200 for a really good tablet. There's only so much processing power you need on these things. As long as you can play a movie at full resolution, and play some simple games, you are pretty much set. A tablet isn't a device for editing videos, or running a database server on. It is a media consumption device.

Re:The problem with cheap tablets....

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the 'lower the price the lower the quality' is utter hogwash and lets a lot of manufactures off the hook. There is no reason for a case to be coming apart, HDs to fail faster, screens to fail faster, etc... The parts used should be 2-3 years ago top of the line parts. Yet now they are falling apart and failing in weird ways?

That sub 500 notbook should be the 2500 notebook from 3 years ago... Yet we do not see that. They are fopping off crap parts on us so they can boost their margin at the cost of their brand name.

Re:The problem with cheap tablets....

[kqs]

There are a lot of reasons why a tablet is $500+. Good touchscreens are much more expensive than cheap LCD plus cheap keyboard. Fitting a 10 hour battery (plus screen and everything else) in a tablet form-factor is so difficult and expensive that few devices get that long a battery life.

Though the best proof is in the market. If it were so easy, then you are arguing that every single tablet manufacturer is either very incompetent, or intentionally walking away from a huge money-making opportunity, I trust most companies to be both mostly-competent and greedy.

Re:The problem with cheap tablets....

[Viewsonic]

It depends what you want to use them for. For laptops, cheap ones work fine for browsing, email, and watching videos. Thankfully, 99.999% of the use of tablets is this very thing. It doesn't matter how crap the hardware is so long as you can browse, check email, and view media. There is no reason to get an iPad at this point.

Re:The problem with cheap tablets....

[jo_ham]

I'm afraid there's not "no reason" that tablets should cost $500 (excuse the double negative) - the touch screen and LCD panel are expensive.

If it cost HP $318 to make a TouchPad, then factor in a few dollars for profit and you're at $350+ to $400 - which is just around the price of the Transformer. Funny that.

They don't just pick prices out of the air, and prices of good are not decided on what people "think" they should be. It costs money to make them.

Re:The problem with cheap tablets....

[Belial6]

That is only true if you place no meaning to the word "Cheap". When I look at laptops, ALL of them are "cheap" compared to a decade ago. Where are the $4k and $5k laptops of yesteryear? They don't exist because as time marches on, technology gets better AND cheaper. A year ago, a good $100 tablet just wasn't going to happen. Today, it would be a real surprise. Next year, I would be surprised if there were not several models available. I would also expect to start seeing Android displace the control panels to other devices as well. The GPS/Stereo touch interface of my brand new Prius is total crap. I mean really bad. So bad that I keep thinking about how I could install a cheap 7" android tablet over top of it. Yeah, the cheap tablet would likely have a low quality resistive touch screen, but it would still be better than the one that came in my car.

Nonsense

[Snaller]

"sluggish" is not only a subjective experience, its also one sported mostly be tech snobs, where for most people the price is more important.

Snob:"Look there is a fraction of a hesitation when you turn the page!"

Normal guy: "Who cares, the page turns in less than a second!"

Ok, except there is no 7" Kindle

[Kartu]

Ok, except there is no 7" Kindle. Sony has 7" e-ink readers (Sony PRS-900, Sony PRS-950)
Sorry for nitpicking.

Re:Ok, except there is no 7" Kindle

[somersault]

Oh yeah I guess my Kindle Keyboard has a 6" screen now that I looked it up. The form factor overall is about 7" though once you account for the keyboard.

It will have to perform decently to be worth using

[Improv]

I've seen low-end tablets from China. I have one. At least the ones that were available 2 years ago are unusably slow. The next time I get one, I'll pay careful attention to the specs. A $90 tablet from china running ICS is garbage if it takes a full second for it to respond to any fingertap.

Not first, not best

[gmuslera]

The HP touchpad was sub-100 for a while, and maybe soon will be able to install ICS on it. Anyway, comparing on it WebOS and CM7, i prefer the WebOS user interface, not sure how much things will improve in ICS.

The Fire, ...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Fire is only 7 inches.

...yes, it must be at least 10 inches so that fucker of an iPad burns to death!
Burn, motherfucker! Burn! ;)

P.S.: Although I heard a "good" battery can also solve the problem. :P

Source Code?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are the GPL source code parts?

Re:Source Code?

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, there is a 2.6.31.3 kernel for the Jz4770 at ftp://ftp.ingenic.cn/3sw/Jz4770/01LinuxBsp/20110729/source/, but did they use that one?

I'm with you ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a 10.1" Android tablet, a netbook, and a 4.5" Nokia "Internet Tablet". The 10" tablet is fine for around the house, but it is too large to be considered a portable computer. Further, since Android is so limited, I take a netbook with when traveling, not the 10" tablet.

The 4.5" Nokia is perfect, except the screen size and lack of a hardware keyboard. It runs a version of Debian/ARM, so it "feels" like Linux. I added a BT keyboard which makes responding to email possible, but still less than ideal due to the screen size. Bought this in 2007 and still love it. I use it whenever I leave the house.

With the 10" Android tablet, I also have a keyboard. The OS is simply too limiting. If I owned this tablet (it is owned by the company, not me), I'd wipe Android and load debian/ARM. At this point the only real use for the 10" Android tablet is reading books and extremely light web surfing. It is too large to take out of the house. I have hopes that Debian/ARM on this device will be able to replace the netbook.

When I was shopping for Android tablets, I picked up the 7" versions in retail stores and decided against them due to the form factor. If I knew how limited Android was already, I would have gotten the $150 7" model instead to read books and have a more modern, portable, device. Sadly, the 7" devices and my 4.5" device have the same screen resolution.

Depends on useage

[Oswald McWeany]

For me, no tablet exists that will really change how I live.

I'm not going to get a data-plan with one because I object to paying $50 a month to carry a device around with me.

I simply don't have that much desire to access the internet on the go... sure, it would be cool- but not $50 a month worth.

I'm not going to use it to watch videos often. I have a television with a larger screen and better resolution at home.

If I'm not at home- I'm driving somewhere, I'm busy, or I'm at work. Yeah- there may be occasions- waiting at the doctor's etc- but rarely get enough uninterrupted time to watch anything at those places.

Some people have use of a tablet- some people it is all they need- but I know there are plenty of people like me.

For us, if we got a tablet (or if we already own a tablet)- it is a toy more than a functioning device. For us (and I suspect we're the majority of those 30 and over)- price matters- because we don't want to throw money away on a toy that will be available half the price in 18 months.- then half the price again in another.

So price matters. Even if it isn't as good as an iPad. You need to get a device that is low enough to be worthwhile just being the "occasional" toy that connects to our wifi.

Expensive Samsungs and iPads have their market- kids and executives who have $50 a month to throw on data plans. (yes, and geeks who like electronic toys- and don't balk at the idea of shelling money for them- which is probably a lot of people on here- which makes this not the average representation of the planet earth)

To get the rest of us- you need to make the devices cheaper- OR get the cost of data plans to be low enough that we consider it worthwhile.

Re:Depends on useage

[AdamJS]

Perhaps the devices themselves are just premature?
I'm not sure about manufacturing costs, but a large part of their purpose - consumption of media, particularly online, on the go - would be massively benefitted by nationwide/'global' wifi access.

Re:Depends on useage

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you run skype on one? Then it may be $50 plus $19 a month to have a data and phone system around yourself all the time. If it has blue tooth, you would not necessarily have to have it out while answering the phone either.

Re:Depends on useage

[Anonymous Coward]

i'm a huge geek when it comes to computing, even to the point of developing my own distribution. But 90% of the time , both my wife and I use our Tablet for basic Web surfing. It cost us 150 case.

Theres no Comparison

[na1led]

Comparing an iPad or Galaxy 10.1 tablet to these cheap 7" Tablets is like comparing an i7 Laptop and a cheap netbook. Some people at first will buy cheap but when they realize it's limitations they'll opt for the better tablet. I purchased a cheap 10" Epad awhile back for $150 and was sorely disappointed with its performance, and lack of features. Most of these cheap tablets are slow and don't respond well to your touch, leading to misspelled words when you type and frustrating web browsing experiences.

No, there were three reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

IBM, IBM, and IBM.

It's hard to remember these days, but before 1985 or so, those three letters were all a platform needed to be successful. Anything IBM was automatically better than anything else. (Ironically, that's sort of the reputation that Apple has today.) There was nothing Apple could have done to compete with that kind of mindshare. It wasn't a fair fight; it wasn't even a fight. It was over before the first Lisa was demoed.

Microsoft took the insidious approach, which was to hitch itself to IBM early on, and worm its way into Big Blue's customer base so thoroughly that, within fifteen years, they were Microsoft's customer base. That's how the PC war was won. What you describe happened much later, after Microsoft had already taken over.

Re:No, there were three reasons

[Anonymous Coward]

The killer app was Lotus 123.

Not just quality - also apps

[walterbyrd]

Available apps are also a very big deal, in PCs, and in tablets.

Who cares about high quality, if it doesn't run the apps you need.

Limited Android Market

[cciRRus]

Not only that the price is expensive after factoring in the shipping charges, this tablet is MIPS-based, so it will have a very limited Android Market. Take note!

The tablet to get is actually Ainol Novo 7 Advanced, not the Novo 7 Basic stated in the article. The 7A has a much better hardware. It is widely believed that the Novo7A will get ICS real soon as there are videos of it running ICS circulating in the chinese forums.

How is it not?

[Viewsonic]

Both screens are almost the exact same resolution, so they show just as much information. Size only matters if your eyesight is poor. Tablets only do very few things. Email, media consumption, and browsing. Those are the three main things that are done the most across all tablets. The cheaper ones like the Fire do this perfectly fine for a LOT cheaper. The IPad has the iTunes store, but for a $400 premium, most people will not bother going forward.

Re:How is it not?

[somersault]

My HDTV has a lower resolution than some of the laptops I've had, but I still prefer the TV if I'm going to be watching a movie, despite the lower DPI.

Size only matters if your eyesight is poor.

I can't even begin to say how stupid I think this is. I was almost lost for words :p Would you say the same about the same resolution at 5"? What about 3"? Hey it's got the same amount of information, you just aren't looking hard enough! The latest iPhone almost has as high a resolution as an iPad.. but for some reason people are buying iPads! What's with that?

Disclaimer: I was stupid enough to think my 5" phone was a possible competitor to the iPad when I first got it. Short answer: it's not.

Re:How is it not?

[jones_supa]

Size only matters if your eyesight is poor.

I have certainly found that using a 11.6" 1366x768 laptop as my main machine has started to become rather annoying - too small pixel size. A 15.6" with the same resolution would be good.

Cheap shit is cheap

[billcopc]

This "sub-$100 Android 4.0 tablet" is kind of like saying you can run Windows 7 on a 600mhz Pentium 3 with 512mb of Ram. Yes, it actually boots and runs, and you can get Aero working on an old ATI card, but that doesn't mean it's a pleasant experience. If you were to sell such a PC with the headline "Windows 7 PC, runs great", you would be one hell of a scumbag and the potential buyer just might swing that heavy dinosaur upside your head.

The chinese love cheap gadgets, because often times it's cheap gadget or no gadget. For us here in the western world, we tend to want un-crap gadgets, perhaps because we have better things to do than staring at "busy" spinners. Maybe if I lived in the 3rd world, my opinion would be different, but I don't.

Re:Cheap shit is cheap

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 7 on a 3.6GHz quad core processor with 8GB RAM and 10KRPM SATA6GB drive isn't much fun either. Sure it boots up fast, but then what? Solitaire? IE whatever? Do a full install of Centos in about 10 minutes though and you have a thing of joy!
--
Do you want to pet my penguin?

sub $100....

[Anonymous Coward]

...and worth every cent of it. They will decorate the insides of closets nationwide in a few months, just like the Coby tablets. There is a reason it's $100. And it's not because it's good.

Boy, as a fellow who has done a lot of product design, I get kind of sick of hearing what the want list is. The only actual rule of the world is that the list is never ending, internally inconsistent, constantly changing and made up by blabbering morons who don't know design from horse poop. "Idea people", you know?

Infinite capabilities. Infinite battery life. Instant charge. Zero weight. Huge LCD but small enough to fit in my pocket. Communications over every medium from taut string to cosmic rays. Made in America. From pure unobtanium. No puppies hurt during manufacturing. Individually signed by both Albert Einstein and Steve Jobs. No plastic. Open source free OS that works perfectly because it's soooooo easy to coordinate 100,000 amateur coders on a project. Not too thin nor thick. Available in white. Free or some sort of 'pay me to take one' plan. O, and free apps, too, that always work and that are as useful and educational as Angry Birds. No DRM. Cameras (HD, of course) on each edge and surface. Did I mention free? And handicapped accessible to every possible human variation of handicap. Comes with cover and cute customization bevels.

There now, that should cover it all. Two years ago, hardly one current tablet owner even knew they needed a tablet. Now, everyone is an expert at design.

Even here at /. I mourn for society.

AndyPad Pro

[lucian1900]

We're using AndyPad Pros at work, and they're actually surprisingly nice for a £179 tablet.

Re:Chineese crap nothing but crap all of it,

[couchslug]

Communism is quite dead. China is Capitalist.

As far as your other paranoia, the only real treatment for mental illiness is suicide.

Screen

[Anonymous Coward]

I looked at the screen on something that cost £250 and I considered it to be unusable. I dread to think the quality of the screen on this. I didn't even think it would be that much of a thing for me but it turned out to be the only thing that mattered.

I'm creative!

[hardware1949]

I could never buy one of these cheap 7" tablets. I'm Creative damn it. But I did buy a Visio 1008 for $189.99 at Costco and the bugger is sluggish. Don't understand why the manufactures have to cheap out on the ffing memory. 512K just doesn't cut it. Another $15.00 for a 16 GB micro SD card, but at least it has the slot for the card. Aaaa?

how is this news?

[hypergreatthing]

I scored a hot android device. Maybe you heard of it, the hp touchpad for only 99$. Beat that.

The many vs the one

[BlueCoder]

The future is many tablets per person. Everyone will have one deluxe tablet for active content and multimedia and a handful of cheaper auxiliary tablets for static content. And they will work together as a combined virtual device with multiple screens. We will have a few of each of various sizes. And I think soon enough universal wireless charging will become standardized. And I believe cell phones themselves will be supplanted more and more by personal hotspots (hubs) like the Verizon MiFi but smaller and get augmented with more wireless frequency options.

I did.

[Namarrgon]

The phone I bought recently also had GPS, compass, accelerometer, 3G, wifi, 2MP camera, Android 2.2 with Market etc etc, but the QXGA touch screen was resistive. It also had a trackball and keyboard, which made up for that. It was $29, no contract, and even came with $10 prepaid credit.

These things are getting dirt cheap.

Re:Chineese crap nothing but crap all of it,

[Osgeld]

hm where does all that shiny apple crap come from?

2 cameras, but no GPS?

[Dr.Dubious DDQ]

I seem to be a wierdo in this, but aside from appropriately affordable price, what I'm really waiting for is a tablet like this with GPS so that I can use it as a portable map (among other things).

I want that a lot more than the ability to let people stare at my ugly face over the internet occasionally while I'm using the tablet...

100 tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree.. This would be great.. And I am sure with some kind of Amazon coupon or promotion code you would be able to get it for even less than $100.. I was reading some on this site http://amazon-coupon-code.org/