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Clothier Slammed For Using 'Perfect' Virtual Model

Hugh Pickens writes "Swedish Clothing Giant H&M recently disclosed that the images from the company's website, showing models wearing the latest swimsuit and lingerie in generic, stock-form, are not just photoshopped but entirely computer-generated. 'We take pictures of the clothes on a doll that stands in the shop, and then create the human appearance with a program on [a] computer,' H&M press officer Hacan Andersson said when questioned about the company's picture-perfect online models. Advertising watchdogs elevated the controversy by criticizing the chain of lower-cost clothing stores for their generic approach to models, accusing the chain of creating unrealistic physical ideals. 'This illustrates very well the sky-high aesthetic demands placed on the female body,' says a spokesman for the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation, one of the groups most critical of H&M. 'The demands are so great that H&M, among the poor photo models, cannot find someone with both body and face that can sell their bikinis.'"

47 of 471 comments (clear)

  1. Cheaper by l00sr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why hire a model, photographer, etc., every time you change product lines, when you can just mass-produce images on a computer? I'd guess that the motivation here is more cost cutting than aesthetics. Still sounds like a terrible idea, but I'm sure we'll be seeing more of this in the near future.

    1. Re:Cheaper by HBI · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For the models, though, this gives very immediate application to the common threat that "You can be replaced by a computer".

      What will dimwit hot chicks do for a living now?

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    2. Re:Cheaper by sandytaru · · Score: 4, Interesting

      One of the commenters in the article pointed out that if it was "really about the clothes" then they'd not have any faces on the models. They'd look like mannequins.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    3. Re:Cheaper by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What will dimwit hot chicks do for a living now?

      Same thing they did before mass media made it possible to have a career as a model. They haven't come up with a computer that can do the world's oldest profession yet.

    4. Re:Cheaper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      They aren't far away, especially in japan.

    5. Re:Cheaper by svendsen · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sheep herding?

    6. Re:Cheaper by TheCRAIGGERS · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Perhaps, but the same could be said for real models. If all they really cared about was the clothes, they wouldn't show the model's faces, either.

      But they do, and for obvious reasons. They're not just trying to sell you $2 of fabric for $55- they're trying to sell you a self-image boost. And they must have found that a beautiful face is a big part of a beautiful body.

    7. Re:Cheaper by Superken7 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Absolutely. I doubt they can't find a model with such a body; sure they can. It's about making the process much shorter and cheaper.

      I don't see anyone complaining for the mannequins not being human beings and being too idealistic. Also, keep in mind that this was done for both women and men, and yet protests are raised only for the aesthetic demands placed on female bodies.

    8. Re:Cheaper by Baloroth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What will dimwit hot chicks do for a living now?

      Same thing they did before mass media made it possible to have a career as a model. They haven't come up with a computer that can do the world's oldest profession yet.

      "Yet" being the key word.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    9. Re:Cheaper by Gravitron+5000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      You've been a Baa-aa-aa-aa-aad boy.

    10. Re:Cheaper by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What will dimwit hot chicks do for a living now?

      Marry rich and bang the pool boy on the side.

    11. Re:Cheaper by Tarsir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah! A magazine full of faceless women isn't creepy at all!

    12. Re:Cheaper by Kjella · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You could say exactly the same about every athlete out there, your career only lasts as long as your body is in tip top shape. Those that have played at the professional but not enough to retire go on to find other work when they're 30-40. I don't really see your point.

      --
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    13. Re:Cheaper by netwarerip · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not nearly as creepy as a crawl-space full of them. Um, I mean, someone else's crawl-space full of them.

    14. Re:Cheaper by Ihmhi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Fashion designers apparently use rail-thin models because they lack the curves of your average woman and therefore the folds, lines, depths, etc. of their clothing will be more emphasized.

      That is, fashion models are generally nothing more than walking, living mannequins. I'd be glad to see this particular part of the fashion industry disappear altogether. How many of these women are naturally that skinny, and how many torture and damage their bodies to fit into that archetype?

    15. Re:Cheaper by nschubach · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And I'm sure someone would still have a problem with it... equating the magazine to turning women into faceless/nameless sex objects.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    16. Re:Cheaper by ZenDragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Have you ever been to H&M? The entire premise of that place is to sell "designer style" clothing for cheap. Sure its not Ross or some second hand store, but I applaud their attempt at making more choices, more affordable. And on that note, if they want to save a little money on models/advertising to keep their prices down then I am all for it. Although honestly I think the one on the left in the article looks kind of creepy like a Real Doll. Very weird. Obviously not quite the real thing.

    17. Re:Cheaper by wisty · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep. And you notice that "super models" and actresses are a lot plumper, with decent curves, and sometimes even a tiny bit of body fat. Women have to look like they can survive pregnancy before they are sexually attractive (thought there'll be some weird fetishists who'll say otherwise). A rail-thin model is essentially a self-propelled coat-hanger, not the epitome of beauty.

    18. Re:Cheaper by niko9 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Because faces, eye color, hair all matter when women wear an outfit. For example, certain color or pattern dresses look better with blond hair. Certain cuts of a shoulder or neck line can look better with different shaped faces. Short hair vs long hair for certain styles. It all matters when putting it together.

      It's the same with makeup. You use certain shades and strokes of color to help balance a woman's face or accentuate certain aspects, e.g., cheekbones.

    19. Re:Cheaper by Alomex · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Still sounds like a terrible idea

      I'm missing something here. Why is it a terrible idea? This is not a rhetorical question. I fail to see the moral failing or social downside in this. Could you care to explain your objections?

    20. Re:Cheaper by shish · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's about making the process much shorter and cheaper. I don't see anyone complaining for the mannequins not being human beings

      When I was walking through Amsterdam, I saw a lot of live underwear models in the shop windows; seemed quite a popular and successful concept...

      --
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    21. Re:Cheaper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're so offensive. I've dated a lot of models, there are slutty, dumb girls, but there are just as many nice, smart, good girls. They're just normal people.

      If someone came up to you and said "I'll pay you $1000 to let me take a picture of you,", and you say "ok"... that doesn't make you a dumb slut.

    22. Re:Cheaper by microbox · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I am *so* disappointed with the comments in this thread. Have you confused pornography with fashion?

      While I believe that feminists are externalising the female obsession with beauty (society made me miserable!), comments like yours are even more baffling.

      Fact: Women like to be beautiful -- it is interwoven into female social hierarchies.

      Fact: Fashion is made for female consumption -- by an order of magnitude.

      Fact: Women almost always dislike being sexualised.

      If a woman drops her stuff in front of a camera, then I believe it is fine to sexualise her at that moment. But the minute she steps out of that context -- well your brain should step out of that context too. And fashion has *NOTHING* to do with pornography.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    23. Re:Cheaper by ShavedOrangutan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's a range for optimum fertility, and the cave man in me knows exactly what it is. Emaciated fashion models aren't likely to produce healthy offspring. Obese women will have more difficulty conceiving. If a woman wants to know what a man is attracted to, put down the Victoria's Secret catalog and look at a mens magazine. Those models are not skinny!

      My wife is pregnant and starting to show it and my inner cave man thinks she's so HOT!

      Thanks for the "self-propelled coat-hanger" quote. I'm using that next time I see her browsing a fashion catalog.

      --
      Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
    24. Re:Cheaper by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Fiction: Women almost always dislike being sexualised.

      Women dislike being ONLY sexualized. So do men IF it ever happened to them.

      Here is a simple tip for boys, girls don't mind if you look at their tits, they mind if you ONLY look at their tits. Women are as sexual as men if not more so but they want to be more then a collection of body parts. Think of them as a total package of person with lots of soft bits that are nice to touch and you got a deal.

      And think about, as much as men might like to think that they would love it if women used them for nothing but sex, what man would be satisfied to sit at home until their mistress called them to perform on demand and never have anything they say taken serious or even listened to.

      --

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      You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    25. Re:Cheaper by ironjaw33 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And those are exactly the kind of people who should not be allowed within ten kilometers from any university. Then suddenly there would be enough scholarships available for people who actually can and want to study, as opposed to becoming an underpaid professional athlete with a student ID, and after retirement/graduation a fraud (and optionally a cripple).

      Athletic scholarships at American universities are almost entirely funded by alumni. These athletic scholarships aren't taking away any money from academic scholarships.

      I was on an athletic scholarship which gave me an undergraduate education at almost no cost. I had both a successful athletic and academic undergraduate career; however there aren't many well paid professional opportunities for track athletes, so with the additional encouragement of an injury, I had to give that part up. I'm now in a Computer Science PhD program with several first author publications in A-level conferences. Being an athlete taught me the discipline and time management skills that have allowed me to succeed as a graduate student. As an undergrad, I was always practicing or traveling to competitions, so I learned to spend every bit of free time studying. Now, in graduate school, I can't believe how lazy many of the other students are -- they have nothing else to do but study, yet they waste so much of their time shooting the breeze.

    26. Re:Cheaper by Belial6 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Years ago, I worked in a Software Etc. It was right next door to a popular women's clothing store. At lunch, I would walk over to eat at a restaurant across form the stores. Sitting there watching the stores was truly enlightening. The difference in how men shop and how women shop became entirely clear:

      In the clothing store...
      The women would slowly walk between the displays. Frequently putting their hand out and very lightly run it along the selection of products. Periodically, they would pull out an item. They would look it up and down, inspecting it from all angles. Then they would put it back on the display. All the while the man that came with them would follow them with a board blank stare.

      Whereas, in the Software store...
      The men would slowly walk between the displays. Frequently putting their hand out and very lightly run it along the selection of products. Periodically, they would pull out an item. They would look it up and down, inspecting it from all angles. Then they would put it back on the display. All the while the woman that came with them would follow them with a board blank stare.

    27. Re:Cheaper by BlueParrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know, as somebody who has always been slim enough to frequently get comments along the lines of "you need to eat more" (and it really isn't fun to get told that when I'm perfectly healthy ), I get a bit ticked off with sentiments like this. Yes, it's horrible that the fashion industry makes curvy women feel bad, but the reverse is not a good idea either. I think it was in the UK authorities banned pictures of a slim model as "socially irresponsible" recently, because she was too thin. Thing is, she looked very similar to myself, and my doctor thinks I'm fine ( as does the BMI scale , even though it is obviously not all that reliable ).

      There's a wide range of healthy body weights, and calling people on the lower end of the scale names because you're upset with how those who are chubby are treated will only make things worse. Replacing one set of really harmful sentiments about body weight with another will result in people feeling pushed to fit some very narrow line between "omg, you shouldn't be so slim, you must have some eating disorder" and "too 'fat' to be a model".

    28. Re:Cheaper by LocalH · · Score: 4, Informative

      News flash: A 120 lb woman is not overweight unless she's a midget.

      --
      FC Closer
    29. Re:Cheaper by Genda · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is a perfect example. Marilyn Monroe, one of the sexiest ladies that ever lived and a sex icon to this day,weighed over 160 lbs. That used to be perfectly normal. The ideal standard today is so bone thin that women have two choices... anorexia or giving up... there is no middle ground any more. Look at all the fashion models, human coat hangers, stick people, a life support system for bones.

      Then you foist a fast food diet on people, and you're screwed. Ever see what they feed kids at school cafeterias? Why is it that when guys look at girls, the girls have to conform to some insane idea of beauty and physical form, and the same guys don't just have muffin tops, they look like hot air balloons at the belt line. Tell you what, when those same guys stop swilling beer and munching potato chips, those girls will stop sneaking ice cream.

      Here's the stupid part. The human body is designed to get fat. Its because we all descended from folks who survived famines and disasters. The way they did it was they put weight on when times were good. Now there are no famines and we just balloon up. Worse, our food producers manipulate our genetic hunger for sweet and salty to grow their bottom line. Our society is not geared to support people with a normal weight. How many food commercials do your see a day? How many food billboards do you see on the road to work every day? How many fast food places do you pass driving around.

      If it were a matter of just will power, there would be no fat people, nobody wants to look or feel that way. Criminalizing it with discrimination, stigma, and despotic abuse isn't the answer either. We need to move our culture as a whole to state of healthy and happy. Stop looking at one another as a mark to be taken, used, and sucked dry financially. Its time for us to take care of one another and that begins by getting honest about ourselves and how we choose to relate to one another.

    30. Re:Cheaper by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is a perfect example. Marilyn Monroe, one of the sexiest ladies that ever lived and a sex icon to this day,weighed over 160 lbs. That used to be perfectly normal.

      Citation needed. A quick Google search shows that her studio said she was between 115 and 120 lbs, at a height of 5' 5.5". For that height, that weight sounds perfectly normal; to be 160 lbs healthily, a woman would need to be about 5'10" or more.

      The ideal standard today is so bone thin that women have two choices

      Bullshit. The ideal standard today is healthily thin, which is admittedly hard in the USA these days thanks to lack of exercise and shitty food and shitty diets. That doesn't mean the ideal is wrong, it means that society is wrong in how people live and eat. Trying to tell people that eating trans fats and dying of heart disease at 55 is "OK" doesn't make it so.

      If it were a matter of just will power, there would be no fat people, nobody wants to look or feel that way.

      It's not a matter of willpower, it's a matter of diet and exercise. Go spend some time in Manhattan and see how many fat people you see walking around the streets of downtown there. In places where people get lots of exercise (because they have to walk a lot), they're a lot healthier than in places where they drive everywhere. The people of Manhattan aren't thin because of willpower, they're thin because they have no choice and they're forced to walk a lot, unless they're like Donald Trump and can afford a private limo to shuttle them around. Same goes in many other places in the world; go to India and hang out with the growing middle class there. Not a lot of obesity there either, even though they do have money for plenty of food unlike their lowest classes. They don't have the crap diet we have, and they get more exercise.

  2. So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'The demands are so great that H&M, among the poor photo models, cannot find someone with both body and face that can sell their bikinis.'

    Deal with it. Modern concepts of beauty as promoted by clothiers might be unrealistic, that doesn't mean anyone has the right to tell them what they can consider beautiful.

    1. Re:So what by nyctopterus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Deal with it. Modern concepts of beauty as promoted by clothiers might be unrealistic, that doesn't mean anyone has the right to tell them what they can consider beautiful.

      Oh yes they do, they just can't back it up with force. Deal with that.

  3. Robot indicator missing by zAPPzAPP · · Score: 4, Funny

    Artifical humans are required to show their robot indicator hologram at all times.
    It may only be switched off by court order. This is clearly a violation.

  4. They're missing a trick here... by PSVMOrnot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I guess it's quite telling of my geekiness that my first thought on this isn't anything to do with stereotypes or the tragedy of young women being given unrealistic aspirations, but rather how the technology could be improved upon and put to better use.

    I mean, they have the tech to computer generate a human form over the top of a mannequin wearing clothes right? So why not parameterize it so that people can customize the look to be them, like an avatar in $your-favourite-mmorpg-here?

    Sure it'd take some work to adapt the tech and build some generative models, but suddenly you go from evil marketing tool to handy way to pick out a wardrobe and see what looks good on you.

    1. Re:They're missing a trick here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Considering how cheap is to rent processing power and disk space nowadays, it's perfectly feasible. There's only one flaw, which in your geekiness you wouldn't find it so obvious. People want to be lied to. They don't want to see an image of themselves wearing something and compare it with the perfect model. When they buy clothing, they tend to imagine it looks on them closer to what it looks like on the model, not how it does in reality. Pretty much like the monkey getting angry at the mirror.

    2. Re:They're missing a trick here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Alternatively, one could step into the booth at H&M and try on the damn clothes.

  5. Switchboard operators and models are replaced. by Technician · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The complaint appears to be based on the lower cost model of efficiency. The printing press operators, typesetters, telephone operators, and other high cost labor is being replaced by lower cost computer automation that is less prone to errors, never goes on strike, etc.

    We reap the benefits of lower cost products, but moan the loss of jobs at the same time. Really, do you want to go back to the model of hand planted wheat and hand harvested and threshed wheat? If your daily loaf of bread cost leass than 1/3 of your income, you are benefiting from the economics of mechanized farming.

    Paying a labor pool of nice looking models is a high expense of a limited resource and will no longer be sustainable as the number of clothing articles to be modeled rises with the new efficiency.

    Automated phone systems enabled inexpensive phone calling. Do you really think your phone service would be anything like it is today if we all had to depend on the volume of Lilly Tomlin type switchboard operators to complete all calls. Phone plans including nationwide calling would not exist. Anything outside of a local calling area would be charged as long distance like it used to be.

    The complaints are to preserve an outdated labor market against advances in automation.

    Looking forward, the advertising market may enable consumers to 3D image their face and body to enable viewing a virtual model of themselves modeling the products. Does this swimsuit make my butt look big?

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  6. If you can computer-generate the models... by DeathToBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...couldn't you come up with some that are attractive? I'm not into fat chicks, but bones sticking out is not a good look. Curves, please!

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    1. Re:If you can computer-generate the models... by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Informative

      Figures I'd lose my mod points this morning. I looked at the article, and thought that the images were no different that a lot of high priced catalogs that seem to stuff our mailbox. I suppose my wife would be happy - seeing sharp angles for bones does not do it for me. If I wanted hard and angular, I'd climb into bed with a box of wrenches.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  7. What we teach daughters by AB3A · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have repeated this to my kids numerous times: a person can go from good looking to ugly in the time it takes them to open their mouths and say something.

    This seems especially alien to girls because every social cue they see on TV and in print seems to scream at them to make good impressions. As such, I really do not know what to make of all the cries of perfect models casting clothes.

    What is a fashion designer supposed to do? Show their clothes on physically disgusting people?

    --
    Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
  8. so what? by v1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Photoshopping is so common nowadays (not just for body retouching) you'd be a fool to believe any printed ad didn't have something adjusted. Might be litter removed off the ground, more people in the crowd, a tummy tuck or two, or it could be the entire shot was assembled from a dozen pieces. If you're crying foul when a CGI model is being drawn in, you probably have no idea how gullible you already are.

    As long as the product itself isn't being photoshopped or a fake scale comparison (like that pool we saw recently where they'd pasted in kids of pics at about 50% normal size to make the pool appear larger) then I'm ok with it.

    This is like complaining that the store has the clothes on mannequins instead of live models. Actually, I wonder if there was a similar ruckus back when stores started using more realistic mannequins?

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  9. Re:Excellent by uncle+slacky · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All very well, but I get the feeling that the things that most people would be "freed up to do" in those circumstances are likely to include starving and becoming homeless.

    It *should* of course be used to create a basic income for everyone in order to allow us to pursue higher things, but I'll bet you it won't.

    --
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  10. Re:I'm not seeing the down side here by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The argument some women put forward is that idealizing these models perpetuates anorexia in the population due to women starving themselves to achieve the same body shape.

    But if you hear the argument that it's the fault of men, don't buy it. It's not men, it's the fashion industry who wants living mannequins. Best case in point: Most porn stars do not have this kind of figure.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  11. Re:This is an issue for women by Dyinobal · · Score: 4, Funny

    To continue using your analogy. Your car wouldn't let you drive it if it looked that good, so be glad it doesn't less you lose your ride.

  12. More real than real? by Shoten · · Score: 4, Funny

    Look at it this way...the virtual models are more likely to pass a Turing test than the real ones...

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  13. look.. this is a *CATALOG* shoot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You have to understand that this is for a catalog shoot: not high fashion, not runway, not super model territory. You're looking at cranking out 100-200 images in a day of 100 different sweaters, trousers, bikinis or what have you. Used to be that you'd hire cheap rookie models for this at (if possible less than) minimum wage. What do you get for an $8/hr model? Someone who whines, who doesn't know how to change clothes quickly, who doesn't know how to stand in the lights, who isn't necessarily exactly the right shape, etc. They're someone who is moderately attractive (her friends told her "you should be a model"), and it's certainly a way to pay your dues to get in to the business. But it sure isn't glamorous.. it's tedious, hard, long day kind of work, and realistically it's no different than photographing a series of angle iron brackets for a machinery catalog (which is probably what they'll do the next day in the studio). At least you don't have to spend all night in the darkroom developing film and making proof sheets for the client any more.

    Good looking synthetic model mannequin and photoshopped headshots... a most practical scheme. Camera is locked off on a tripod, crew of dressers putting the clothes on the mannequins and rolling them into place. What's not to like? An assembly line process with automation.